:00:00. > :00:00.while. The time will come when the old rules will have to be relaxed -
:00:00. > :00:00.and that'll be the point of maximum danger for the old Marxist-Leninist
:00:00. > :00:20.system. Newsnight Scotland: Nine people are
:00:21. > :00:23.confirmed dead in a tragic accident, including three who is very job was
:00:24. > :00:26.to protect the public. What is needed to help the bereaved, the
:00:27. > :00:32.survivors and the whole community come to terms with this event? We'll
:00:33. > :00:38.hear from the medical profession, the faith community and the police
:00:39. > :00:41.service. Good evening. Almost exactly three
:00:42. > :00:44.days ago a nightmarish tragedy hit central Glasgow. Nine families were
:00:45. > :00:47.bereaved and dozens of individuals were injured, in spite of heroic
:00:48. > :00:50.efforts by amateur and professional rescuers. By this evening the dust
:00:51. > :00:53.has settled, literally. While the professionals concentrate on solving
:00:54. > :00:56.the technical mystery of why this helicopter crashed, those directly
:00:57. > :00:59.affected - and many more of us - face coming to terms with the
:01:00. > :01:00.aftermath of a traumatic event. First tonight, Suzanne Allan
:01:01. > :01:25.reports. This morning, just before 10:30am,
:01:26. > :01:28.another grim task began. The helicopter that caused such
:01:29. > :01:35.devastation, such tragedy, was winched out of the rubble. This has
:01:36. > :01:39.been a painstaking, thorough operation. At stake - the safety of
:01:40. > :01:46.the rescue workers and the dignity of the dead. Rescue workers,
:01:47. > :01:52.survivors and the public stood in quiet contemplation. For some who
:01:53. > :02:05.made it out of the Clutha last Friday, it was too much. Shocking.
:02:06. > :02:10.Er, I don't believe we've walked out. We're walking wounded but we're
:02:11. > :02:18.alive and we're here to tell the story. Some aren't so lucky and my
:02:19. > :02:23.heart just goes out to all their families and the people that haven't
:02:24. > :02:27.got any closure on it yet. We were standing chatting away and it was
:02:28. > :02:31.just a huge bang and I looked round to my right and Nancy wasn't there.
:02:32. > :02:37.I was aware that the whole pub seemed to be on top of us. A man had
:02:38. > :02:42.been blown on top of me and blew me into a corner. Pushed me into the
:02:43. > :02:50.corner. I kept thinking it was a bomb. And then there was silence. As
:02:51. > :02:57.the bodies of victims were driven away, emergency workers formed a
:02:58. > :03:01.guard of honour. This task has been hard enough for Police Scotland but
:03:02. > :03:09.is all the more poignant because two of the dead are their own. A local
:03:10. > :03:15.resident, the Archbishop of Glasgow, visited the scene today and was
:03:16. > :03:21.visibly shocked. To see that helicopter being prepared for
:03:22. > :03:26.removal is astonishing and I'm a wee bit shaken, to tell you the truth.
:03:27. > :03:40.I'm quite upset. I live not far from here. This is my end of town and so
:03:41. > :03:45.that's a very familiar place. I'm so pleased and so gratified that so
:03:46. > :03:50.many Glaswegians showed the real spirit of Glasgow and that gives you
:03:51. > :03:55.a real hope for the future. Similarly, the owner of the pub is
:03:56. > :03:58.still in disbelief. The pub, the building means nothing. That'll get
:03:59. > :04:03.sorted, whatever it takes to sort it. The important thing to think
:04:04. > :04:07.about just now is the people who were there, the staff, the
:04:08. > :04:12.customers, the band - everyone who was involved. That's the most
:04:13. > :04:17.important thing just now, what we can do to help them. This has sat on
:04:18. > :04:21.the whole city, from the emergency services to the sporting fraternity,
:04:22. > :04:27.from religious leaders to the people of Glasgow. A book of condolence was
:04:28. > :04:33.opened at the city Chambers today. But now the task of finding answers
:04:34. > :04:38.begins. From the sky, you can see the scale of the challenge that
:04:39. > :04:43.faced the emergency services. This building, once a tenement, has an
:04:44. > :04:49.unusual construction. Three layers of roof and walls one metre thick.
:04:50. > :04:54.Eyewitnesses tell of the helicopter dropping like a stone. Air accident
:04:55. > :05:00.eight as were on the scene by 9:15am on the morning of the crash. Today
:05:01. > :05:07.we got a few details. I can confirm that the helicopter does not have a
:05:08. > :05:10.black box recorder, however it does have a significant number of modern
:05:11. > :05:17.electronic systems on board and it may be possible to recover recorded
:05:18. > :05:23.data from those systems. I can confirm that nothing detached from
:05:24. > :05:26.the helicopter in-flight before the accident and that all four rotor
:05:27. > :05:31.blades were attached to the road ahead after the impact. This is what
:05:32. > :05:36.we know for sure but one aviation expert offers this opinion. There
:05:37. > :05:41.was no black box on board. Air-traffic data will give them some
:05:42. > :05:46.information about how the radar could see the helicopter. There is a
:05:47. > :05:49.possibility of a fuel supply problem but the eyewitness reports say the
:05:50. > :05:53.helicopter was spinning out of control, rather than just descending
:05:54. > :05:57.rapidly, which would tend to point towards the tail rotor. Much has
:05:58. > :06:02.been made of the heroism of the passing public - the tireless
:06:03. > :06:06.dedication of the fire, police and ambient screws and their quick
:06:07. > :06:09.response. This is a city in morning but it is one where people stand
:06:10. > :06:15.shoulder to shoulder and hope that it will smile again before long.
:06:16. > :06:17.I'm joined now by Dr Anne Douglas, a clinical psychologist and former
:06:18. > :06:21.Head of NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde Trauma Service. The Reverend
:06:22. > :06:24.Sally Foster Fulton is Chair of the Church of Scotland's Church and
:06:25. > :06:28.Society Council. And Calum Steele is General Secretary of the Scottish
:06:29. > :06:34.Police Federation. Good evening to all of you and thank you for coming.
:06:35. > :06:39.It's almost like a ripple effect, isn't it? Those involved in this
:06:40. > :06:44.trauma are clearly those worst affected but you can see the wider
:06:45. > :06:47.society has been affected. I think a wide range of people have been
:06:48. > :06:51.affected by this, from the people who were in the pub to the bereaved,
:06:52. > :06:57.and then we're thinking about the front line responders. And also,
:06:58. > :07:05.perhaps, people who have previously been in a major incident. So people
:07:06. > :07:10.in a wide range across society will have been affected by this, and also
:07:11. > :07:13.journalists. Because it's not just bereavement - we're talking about
:07:14. > :07:20.real trauma because of the seriousness of what happened. Yes,
:07:21. > :07:22.it is a major incident, a major trauma and completely out with
:07:23. > :07:28.people's range of normal experience. People were going out for a casual
:07:29. > :07:32.evening, relaxing, and something completely unpredictable happened.
:07:33. > :07:38.It will take people a long time to try and make sense of this. To that
:07:39. > :07:42.end, how do you go about offering words of comfort in a situation like
:07:43. > :07:48.this, which, to many people, is inexplicable. It is inexplicable and
:07:49. > :07:52.one of the things we have to hold to is that when a tragedy like this
:07:53. > :07:56.happens, it's not about our particular beliefs but our shared in
:07:57. > :08:02.common humanity. One thing they've groups can do is offer space for
:08:03. > :08:06.people to gather together and grieve together, unpack their feelings
:08:07. > :08:09.together, ask questions together. To offer that unconditional space is
:08:10. > :08:14.something that communities can do and to stand alongside people, not
:08:15. > :08:18.answering their questions but standing alongside them when they
:08:19. > :08:22.ask why. Police have to deal with this kind of trauma and all
:08:23. > :08:27.emergency workers do, almost on a daily basis, but these are unique
:08:28. > :08:31.circumstances and you lost two of your colleagues, so very difficult
:08:32. > :08:36.for those emergency workers to deal with? It's not uncommon at all for
:08:37. > :08:43.emergency services personnel to deal with tragedy. It's what we do on an
:08:44. > :08:47.almost daily basis but there is something very different when it
:08:48. > :08:50.does involve members of your own family and when it comes to the
:08:51. > :08:54.police service, we consider ourselves the biggest family in
:08:55. > :08:58.Scotland. In fact, the messages of support we've had from colleagues
:08:59. > :09:01.across the world suggest that the police considers itself the biggest
:09:02. > :09:06.family in the world because the loss has been felt very sorely, not just
:09:07. > :09:13.in Scotland but by our friends in all corners of the UK and, indeed,
:09:14. > :09:17.the wider world. Do you think that sense of shared experience will help
:09:18. > :09:22.some people through this? May be those who will not find solace in
:09:23. > :09:27.religion but that there is a coming together, sometimes in churches but
:09:28. > :09:29.not always? Definitely, and sometimes in the hardest times for
:09:30. > :09:34.human beings, the best of humanity comes out. To watch what happened in
:09:35. > :09:39.the aftermath of that tragedy, people going towards the tragedy
:09:40. > :09:43.rather than going away from it, trying to do whatever they could to
:09:44. > :09:47.help... The first responses were, how can we stand alongside folk?
:09:48. > :09:52.That's for people with religious faith and those with no faith. We're
:09:53. > :09:58.all in this together. When we look at what happened here, are there
:09:59. > :10:03.stages of bereavement that people have to go through? It would be
:10:04. > :10:07.helpful to distinguish people who are traumatised but not bereaved and
:10:08. > :10:12.people who are but read but not traumatised. If we could take people
:10:13. > :10:16.who are traumatised, we can expect the vast majority of people to
:10:17. > :10:21.recover from the trauma. People are incredibly resilient and although it
:10:22. > :10:25.would be quite usual for people to have, perhaps, nightmares and be
:10:26. > :10:31.jumpy and worried and having difficulty sleeping, normally that
:10:32. > :10:37.would settle down after a few weeks. Clearly, for people who are
:10:38. > :10:42.per read a much longer process -- bereaved, it's a much longer
:10:43. > :10:48.process. They have to deal first with the shock of the trauma before
:10:49. > :10:51.normal bereavement can start. If people are genuinely traumatised by
:10:52. > :10:58.this, how is that picked up in terms of them getting some help? Are GPs
:10:59. > :11:01.normally the first line of defence? I would say the first line of
:11:02. > :11:07.defence are friends and family and colleagues. The coverage of
:11:08. > :11:12.Glaswegians and how they've reached out to people has been the first
:11:13. > :11:14.line of response, and the first line responders themselves. That's
:11:15. > :11:19.tremendous helpful. Friends and family. And if people feel that
:11:20. > :11:23.things aren't settling down to them after maybe three weeks or a month,
:11:24. > :11:28.that is the time to seek professional help. However, some
:11:29. > :11:32.people may be immensely distressed early on a particularly those who
:11:33. > :11:37.are socially isolated, and may need to seek help from their GP sooner.
:11:38. > :11:41.What sort of help is available to those in the emergency services? Is
:11:42. > :11:49.there an expectation that people will talk among themselves and that
:11:50. > :11:53.will be helpful? One of the great things about the police force is
:11:54. > :12:01.that we have great year to peer support. We almost all of out of
:12:02. > :12:05.each other's pockets. Police officers often socialise after hours
:12:06. > :12:13.and invariably talk about what we have experienced during the day. We
:12:14. > :12:18.often say that we experience a job like no other and therefore
:12:19. > :12:26.sometimes we can only speak about our experiences with our colleagues.
:12:27. > :12:31.We have our own in house trained members of staff that are capable of
:12:32. > :12:36.dealing with debriefing at the early-stage. That is a realisation
:12:37. > :12:40.that however much trauma emergency workers have been through in the
:12:41. > :12:49.past, they are not immune to needing help at some stage. For some,
:12:50. > :12:57.talking is the worst thing you can do. It is the compound doing effect
:12:58. > :13:04.that we have to be alert to because the injuries that are sustained eye,
:13:05. > :13:09.for example, those involved in this incident might not manifest
:13:10. > :13:18.themselves for three years, three months or 30 years. Even those
:13:19. > :13:25.chaplains providing comfort, the Archbishop of Glasgow talking about
:13:26. > :13:29.how shocked he was today, but also that have been others on the scene
:13:30. > :13:33.since the accident happened, they are there to provide comfort but
:13:34. > :13:40.potentially might need help themselves? Everybody is going to
:13:41. > :13:45.come to terms with this in a different way. We have to remember a
:13:46. > :13:48.brief is a process, but you can't go back to different stages. You have
:13:49. > :13:53.to be in there with people for the long haul. This will on packet
:13:54. > :13:57.itself for a long time to come. You need to be with people where they
:13:58. > :14:11.are. We talk about the golden rule of doing to others what you would
:14:12. > :14:15.like them to do for you. Some people will want to talk about this a lot
:14:16. > :14:21.and others will not. You have to respect that. That should be
:14:22. > :14:27.respected because people have different ways of coping. People
:14:28. > :14:33.know what is best for themselves. We are incredibly lucky in Scotland to
:14:34. > :14:45.have some specialist trauma services in the NHS in the central belt and
:14:46. > :14:53.beyond. So there is help available for GPs and others. How much
:14:54. > :15:00.experience has been taken from other tragedies such as the plastics
:15:01. > :15:08.factory disaster from several years ago? As trauma experts, we are
:15:09. > :15:13.constantly learning about what works and what does not. At one time,
:15:14. > :15:20.people thought about psychological debriefing was a good thing. The
:15:21. > :15:25.evidence now shows that that is not particularly helpful. We are always
:15:26. > :15:33.learning about what works for people. People meet contact with
:15:34. > :15:38.family and friends and not to be herded into a room to talk to
:15:39. > :15:46.experts about what happened straightaway. There are no positives
:15:47. > :15:54.in this, but it is interesting that the public might have a renewed
:15:55. > :16:04.understanding of what the emergency services do. Incidents like this
:16:05. > :16:10.really drive that home. We have taken comfort from how the community
:16:11. > :16:16.has rallied around. And not just immediately but in the last few
:16:17. > :16:21.days. For years, Glasgow will look back on a day of significant sadness
:16:22. > :16:26.but can take enormous pride from the reaction to help everyone associated
:16:27. > :16:32.with this. We have more sadness to come because there will be funeral
:16:33. > :16:39.is to be held. People know from their own experiences of bereavement
:16:40. > :16:42.that you are very much caught up in the aftermath and it can take a
:16:43. > :16:50.while for the realisation to hit you. Absolutely. The media hype has
:16:51. > :16:56.shown that there is a lot of attention, but the people who have
:16:57. > :17:01.been bereaved will be left to get on with it. That is whether family and
:17:02. > :17:11.communities step into continue the support and the outpouring of love
:17:12. > :17:15.and support. As we move on, people need to be supported and cared for.
:17:16. > :17:22.That is when family and community really come to the fore. What would
:17:23. > :17:35.you say to someone watching who feel they might have been adversely
:17:36. > :17:44.affect affected by what they have seen? This is a relatively rare
:17:45. > :17:48.event. It shakes every one sense of security and stability. It is like
:17:49. > :17:53.Lockerbie. People are worried about what might fall from the sky. This
:17:54. > :17:58.is a rear event. Get whacked to business as usual. Children might be
:17:59. > :18:03.frightened by this. Sometimes children are forgotten. We need to
:18:04. > :18:11.get back to a normal routine as quickly as possible. For those
:18:12. > :18:16.directly affected, we know the police have family liaison
:18:17. > :18:24.officers, but what happens when the police move away? Are other agencies
:18:25. > :18:33.brought in? We never just cut anyone loose. It is very important for
:18:34. > :18:37.families to know that other agencies can come in to help. We work closely
:18:38. > :18:48.with agencies to make sure that happens. My organisation, the
:18:49. > :18:56.Scottish Police Federation, and my representatives, will help the
:18:57. > :19:01.families of the deceased police officers for some time to come.
:19:02. > :19:05.Answers will not come quickly. We will be dealing with these families
:19:06. > :19:12.for many years to come. And it is right that we do so. A pilot and two
:19:13. > :19:16.police officers have paid the ultimate sacrifice for doing
:19:17. > :19:21.something they love and that is keeping other people safe. What
:19:22. > :19:26.would your advice be for those who are traumatised by this? Turn to
:19:27. > :19:31.your family and communities and let them know what you need. There are
:19:32. > :19:40.layers of care in the village of Scotland. Reach out and let people
:19:41. > :19:46.know that you are struggling. Now a quick look at tomorrow's front
:19:47. > :19:51.pages. The Scotsman has the guard of honour. The Daily Mail has a picture
:19:52. > :19:59.of the helicopter being lifted from the close. -- from the Clutha.
:20:00. > :20:02.That's all from me. More news is always on BBC Scotland's website. We
:20:03. > :20:04.are back with Good Morning Scotland on Radio Scotland tomorrow morning
:20:05. > :20:05.at 6am.