:00:00. > :00:00.proving there can be piece in the least. We are inviting all these
:00:00. > :00:00.people to come and see it before they shut it down. -- in the Middle
:00:00. > :00:14.East. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:
:00:15. > :00:18.Should the unionist parties have a united line on more devolution? The
:00:19. > :00:25.Liberal Democrats are on a mission to find points of consensus, but
:00:26. > :00:27.will the other parties play ball? And after years of campaigning,
:00:28. > :00:30.debating and consulting, Scotland becomes the 17th country in the
:00:31. > :00:34.world to legislate for same sex marriage.
:00:35. > :00:38.Good evening. If some form of increased powers for the Scottish
:00:39. > :00:43.Parliament, the so-called devo max option, was on the ballot paper, it
:00:44. > :00:45.would be ahead in the polls. So should the unionist parties be
:00:46. > :00:49.joining together to offer increased powers if Scotland votes no? The
:00:50. > :00:52.Liberal Democrats seem interested in that idea and are seeking points of
:00:53. > :01:02.consensus with Labour and the Tories. But are the other parties
:01:03. > :01:06.listening? It was little over a year ago that
:01:07. > :01:09.the Liberal Democrats published their alternative to Scottish
:01:10. > :01:13.independence and no Willie Rennie is to ask the party's former leader,
:01:14. > :01:20.Sir Menzies Campbell, to take a process a stage further. Tonight, in
:01:21. > :01:25.the keynote speech, he talked of building a consensus on further
:01:26. > :01:29.devolution. The principle of raising the majority of the money that you
:01:30. > :01:33.spend will be a common feature of all the plans. Labour have already
:01:34. > :01:37.talked about income tax. The Conservatives have even talked about
:01:38. > :01:41.federalism, a great move forward! The trade union movement, also TiVo
:01:42. > :01:48.plus have come up with the same principles. -- also devolution plus.
:01:49. > :01:53.I reckon there is an emerging consensus and I think Menzies
:01:54. > :01:56.Campbell will be able to bring the parties together to show the
:01:57. > :02:03.Scottish public that voting on the referendum does not mean no change.
:02:04. > :02:09.Sir Menzies Campbell's task will be threefold, to review the consensus
:02:10. > :02:14.around and invite other parties, planning a timetable for change and
:02:15. > :02:18.deciding how that change will be commented after the referendum. In a
:02:19. > :02:22.recent debate, there was precious little sign of any clear commitment
:02:23. > :02:28.to work together from the other unionist parties. I cannot speak for
:02:29. > :02:32.the Conservatives Liberal Democrats. What I am saying is that
:02:33. > :02:34.for the Labour Party, we will publish our detailed proposals in
:02:35. > :02:40.March at our party conference and then it is about what process that
:02:41. > :02:43.goes through from there on to the actual next stage itself. What would
:02:44. > :02:47.be very help full head of the referendum is that we understand, as
:02:48. > :02:56.unionist parties, the parameters by which the debate has to take place.
:02:57. > :02:58.If they can agree, the prize for the unionist is to secure a high
:02:59. > :03:06.proportion of undecided voters who say they would like the option of
:03:07. > :03:09.further powers. In Europe, in work. Willie Rennie says decentralising
:03:10. > :03:12.power across Britain is building such momentum that it will happen,
:03:13. > :03:18.whether he and Sir Menzies Campbell can build an all-party consensus is
:03:19. > :03:21.another matter. I'm joined from Westminster by the
:03:22. > :03:26.Liberal Democrat peer and devo max enthusiast Jeremy Purvis. Jeremy,
:03:27. > :03:34.when Willie Rennie talks about forming a consensus, what are we
:03:35. > :03:37.talking about? I think it is for those organisations that have
:03:38. > :03:42.already published their proposals. One of those is of course the
:03:43. > :03:48.Liberal Democrats. But the think tank Reform Scotland has published
:03:49. > :03:56.the devolution plus rather than devo max proposals. There seems to be an
:03:57. > :04:00.emerging common ground among some basic principles and I think our
:04:01. > :04:09.task as a party is to try and bring us together. Is your ambition, with
:04:10. > :04:11.no disrespect to the IPPR and similar organisations, I hardly
:04:12. > :04:16.think that is going to floor the yes campaign, if you manage to achieve a
:04:17. > :04:18.consensus within. What you need to do is achieve a consensus with the
:04:19. > :04:24.Conservative and Labour party, do you not? With respect back, it is
:04:25. > :04:28.not just about political parties. It is of course the parties that will
:04:29. > :04:31.be tasked in any future administration... But it is because
:04:32. > :04:35.I am sure John Curtis will be arguing later on when we talk to him
:04:36. > :04:39.that the point is that if Labour and the Liberal Democrats and
:04:40. > :04:43.Conservatives had some come in position which you could put in your
:04:44. > :04:47.2015 election manifestoes and announced that before September,
:04:48. > :04:53.then people could vote no and be sure that these more devolution
:04:54. > :04:57.measures would be carried out. Let me answer this answer in school, for
:04:58. > :05:04.people to end a sentence. In principle, I think there is a lot to
:05:05. > :05:08.that. Willie Rennie have indicated today and I am certainly in favour
:05:09. > :05:12.of the people knowing that when the vote in the referendum that they
:05:13. > :05:15.would be rejecting independence that they understand what the process
:05:16. > :05:20.will be that will happen. That is about forming some form of agreement
:05:21. > :05:25.among basic principles that he is political parties can deliver
:05:26. > :05:29.post-referendum that can also try and attract as much consensus as
:05:30. > :05:33.possible with other groups that have contributed to the debate. That was
:05:34. > :05:36.the founding basis of the Constitutional Convention in the
:05:37. > :05:39.1990s and I think it is a strong principle to go forward with now. So
:05:40. > :05:45.you're saying that you do think there could be some joint position,
:05:46. > :05:50.at least in a very basic sense, between EU, the Liberal Democrats,
:05:51. > :05:53.the Conservatives and Labour? We are waiting for the Conservatives and
:05:54. > :05:55.Labour to publish their because of the need space to do that and I
:05:56. > :06:02.respect that fully. -- their proposals. My party have already
:06:03. > :06:05.published their proposals. I think Menzies Campbell, looking at where
:06:06. > :06:08.we are at the moment, a number of months ahead of the referendum, will
:06:09. > :06:12.already gather which of the basic principles to go forward. Already,
:06:13. > :06:17.it seems to be emerging that raising the majority, or close to the
:06:18. > :06:20.majority of funding, for the Scottish Parliament and having it on
:06:21. > :06:23.a constitutional footing is a positive offer. We will await what
:06:24. > :06:26.the other parties do that already there seems to be a growing
:06:27. > :06:30.consensus in the middle ground that we are wanting to capture and have
:06:31. > :06:33.that as a basis of what form of agreement could be delivered after
:06:34. > :06:38.the referendum. While many as may be willing, are you getting any
:06:39. > :06:41.indication that Labour and the Conservatives are willing to join
:06:42. > :06:49.question -- while Menzies maybe willing. I was watching in the hall
:06:50. > :06:53.a speech and the Labour interim report also and they have both
:06:54. > :06:56.indicated there direction of travel. We will await what they say and I
:06:57. > :06:59.respect that they have their own processes to go through. By the time
:07:00. > :07:04.of the referendum on the boat, I think that we should be able to know
:07:05. > :07:10.what is the likely process after what the Liberal Democrats are doing
:07:11. > :07:14.is indicating yes, we have published proposals but won't know that next
:07:15. > :07:20.step, to understand what the middle ground is and where are the bones of
:07:21. > :07:23.what will be delivered afterwards. People are aware that there are
:07:24. > :07:27.parties like the Liberal Democrats that are very clear that improving
:07:28. > :07:30.the union is one of the things that we wish to see. That is a stronger
:07:31. > :07:33.argument than simply rejecting independence. Do not go away.
:07:34. > :07:36.Also here is Scotland's polling guru, Professor John Curtice, and
:07:37. > :07:42.the critic and commentator Joyce McMillan. John Curtis, explain why
:07:43. > :07:46.you think this is a bit of a no-brainer for the unionist parties?
:07:47. > :07:51.It is certainly true that the part of the current no float that
:07:52. > :07:56.consists of people whose first preference is more devolution, along
:07:57. > :08:06.the lines of what he has been talking about, it certainly looks
:08:07. > :08:10.like the softer part of the no vote. Around 45% of people who say they
:08:11. > :08:16.are going to vote no of people whose first preference is that they would
:08:17. > :08:26.like to see more devolution in the wake of a no vote. Maybe around a
:08:27. > :08:31.third of that 45% of potential no voters say, I might change my mind
:08:32. > :08:38.if I were not convinced that more devolution was not going to happen.
:08:39. > :08:43.In general, those people who say, my first preference is more devolution,
:08:44. > :08:49.they are located amongst those people who have not yet fully make
:08:50. > :09:00.their mind up. Therefore, put that together, this looks like the soft
:09:01. > :09:05.underbelly. If it is true, the lead of the no side has narrowed
:09:06. > :09:10.somewhat, we might be beginning to enter the territory that that
:09:11. > :09:15.movement could make a difference and returned the referendum into a close
:09:16. > :09:21.fight. We will use you as a swing voter, because you have not made up
:09:22. > :09:28.your mind yet, but if you were to see a platform from Labour and the
:09:29. > :09:31.Tories and Lib Dems saying, here are our proposals for more devolution,
:09:32. > :09:36.you do not need to vote for independence, and you know it would
:09:37. > :09:41.be in the manifesto is that this would be implemented, would that
:09:42. > :09:49.have an influence? I do not know. I have been pretty well put off by the
:09:50. > :09:55.negativity we have seen from the no camp so far, but I welcome any
:09:56. > :10:00.development that makes the people on the no side think possibly the spec
:10:01. > :10:03.positively about what they might have to offer Scotland in the
:10:04. > :10:11.future, because until now, it has been, you cannot do that. So if they
:10:12. > :10:17.get themselves into a frame of mind where they are offering some kind of
:10:18. > :10:22.positive change, that can only have a positive effect on the quality of
:10:23. > :10:27.the debate, and there is clearly a large chunk of the electorate who
:10:28. > :10:31.would, if the devolution campaign got itself together at an earlier
:10:32. > :10:36.stage, and got it onto the ballot paper, who would have been choosing
:10:37. > :10:41.that option, and will now be reassured if the three unionist
:10:42. > :10:50.parties get together and guarantee some kind of better devolution
:10:51. > :10:56.offer. The crucial thing here is that it has got to be all three of
:10:57. > :11:06.them. If I am a voter, I think, I will vote no for more devolution, so
:11:07. > :11:12.if all three do it, they will be the next government. The crucial thing
:11:13. > :11:15.is, will it happen? The unionist parties have only done something
:11:16. > :11:21.when they have been under pressure from the SNP. The concern that some
:11:22. > :11:29.people have is, if there is a no vote, the pressure on the unionist
:11:30. > :11:32.parties will not deliver, so people want the unionist parties to have a
:11:33. > :11:36.clear commitment in advance of September, and they are committed to
:11:37. > :11:41.putting it in their manifestoes in 2015, and that is as close as a
:11:42. > :11:47.guarantee as we can get. This is the crucial point, it is not just you,
:11:48. > :11:52.you have got to get the others to do it. It does not work if Labour and
:11:53. > :11:56.the Liberal Democrats do it, it has got to be all three, so voters know
:11:57. > :12:02.it will happen, irrespective of which party is the next government
:12:03. > :12:10.of the UK. All of those three parties will have their own plans,
:12:11. > :12:14.and Ming Campbell has do find the common ground that exist and allow
:12:15. > :12:18.that to be clear going forward. Alistair Carmichael will be
:12:19. > :12:23.Secretary of State for Scotland after the referendum, and he is
:12:24. > :12:28.clear that a no vote to independence is not a no vote to change. But the
:12:29. > :12:31.critical thing, will these be the best reforms to allow the long-term
:12:32. > :12:35.relationship that works well to strengthen the Scottish Parliament
:12:36. > :12:40.in the UK? I think so, that is why we are working hard to secure the
:12:41. > :12:46.middle ground. We have to leave it here, thank you.
:12:47. > :12:51.The debating, campaigning and consulting is over, MPs, or MSPs,
:12:52. > :12:57.voted the bill legalising the same-sex marriage into law this
:12:58. > :13:00.evening, a landmark for equality, but some religious groups said they
:13:01. > :13:11.could be discredited against for opposing gay marriage.
:13:12. > :13:19.The celebration started early outside Holyrood. But inside the
:13:20. > :13:23.chamber, some MSPs were expressing concern about the law. Equality is
:13:24. > :13:29.about fairness, not about making everyone the same. The indisputable
:13:30. > :13:33.fact is the build them on issues the deeply held views of those that
:13:34. > :13:38.consider marriage as between a man and a woman. There is nothing fair
:13:39. > :13:40.in causing those who are opposed to same-sex marriage to feel
:13:41. > :13:48.apprehensive about expressing this view. But this is the situation
:13:49. > :13:50.which will now prevail in Scotland. The Health Secretary joined
:13:51. > :13:56.campaigners in advance of the vote, confident his law would pass. This
:13:57. > :14:01.is one of the biggest historic moments in the history of Scotland.
:14:02. > :14:07.From today forward, Scotland will be a much more civilised society will
:14:08. > :14:18.stop the law was passed, decisively. Yes, 105. No, 18. There were no
:14:19. > :14:35.abstentions. The marriage and civil partnership Scotland Bill is passed.
:14:36. > :14:38.And it's the cheering, notice the people in the calorie think the law
:14:39. > :14:52.the thumbs down. There were protesters outside
:14:53. > :14:56.Holyrood earlier, too. Matthew chapter five says that God sent the
:14:57. > :15:00.rain on the just and the unjust, but which is which? If you are a man who
:15:01. > :15:04.wants to marry a man or a woman who wants to marry a woman, the doors of
:15:05. > :15:09.this magnificent building will remain closed to you stopped the
:15:10. > :15:13.minister says it is a redefinition of what marriage is, a step too far,
:15:14. > :15:17.but he was keen to stress that, as in parishes across the country,
:15:18. > :15:22.every kind of person is welcome to play a full part in the life of the
:15:23. > :15:28.community that worshipped here. The Kirk says safeguards in the law are
:15:29. > :15:31.not robust enough. We are concerned that the scheme which the Scottish
:15:32. > :15:35.government is promoting through the Scottish Parliament is full rubble
:15:36. > :15:41.to challenge under European human rights legislation. We do not expect
:15:42. > :15:46.there to be an immediate challenge, but there is a real prospect that,
:15:47. > :15:52.in the future, there will be a challenge, perhaps a successful one,
:15:53. > :15:57.and the church may be faced with a choice of either having to do all
:15:58. > :16:03.marriages, same and different sex, or no marriages at all. Alan Watts
:16:04. > :16:06.in a civil partnership. Until Malcolm died two years ago. This
:16:07. > :16:12.week would have been their anniversary. We loved each other
:16:13. > :16:19.ridiculously, we fought like cat and dog, but every couple does. However,
:16:20. > :16:24.because we could, we thought we should, it would be the right thing
:16:25. > :16:32.to do. It is not for everyone, but it was right for us, and it made
:16:33. > :16:35.such a massive difference. Especially when Malcolm needed to
:16:36. > :16:41.keep going back to hospital before he eventually died. Some of the
:16:42. > :16:50.nursing staff, the older people, were a wee bit funny. But then, the
:16:51. > :16:56.younger staff said, that is his husband. Is it his boyfriend? No, it
:16:57. > :17:03.is his husband. That is the difference. Had we not been married,
:17:04. > :17:08.I would have just been his boyfriend, no matter how long we had
:17:09. > :17:12.been together. This couple met nine years ago when they were both
:17:13. > :17:17.working on Edinburgh's ghost tours. They are in a civil partnership to.
:17:18. > :17:21.Every marriage in the world is unique, it is between two unique
:17:22. > :17:26.people, people have different things in common, and we are both women.
:17:27. > :17:32.Somebody else might have in common that they both have run high, --
:17:33. > :17:36.both have brown hair, there is so much judgement about what you can
:17:37. > :17:44.and cannot have in common. 50 years ago, interracial marriage, you have
:17:45. > :17:48.to have that in common. The pictures from the ceremony already looked
:17:49. > :17:54.like a wedding, now they say they plan to get married as soon as they
:17:55. > :18:02.can. The Scotsman says, BP boss's warning
:18:03. > :18:03.on independence, and people celebrating same-sex marriage. I am
:18:04. > :18:13.back tomorrow, good night. Another story spell of weather is
:18:14. > :18:17.with us, more heavy rain and strong wind overnight, continuing into
:18:18. > :18:21.tomorrow. Brief spells to the east and north, and there will be some
:18:22. > :18:26.pride in this between heavy showers, but the wind will be especially
:18:27. > :18:31.strong, maybe touching 80 miles an hour for western coast. The rain
:18:32. > :18:36.will be on and off all day in Northern Ireland. For the north-west
:18:37. > :18:37.of Scotland sunny spells. Rain throughout the day across the