:00:00. > :00:00.the sun. Even the Chinese, who have destroyed the nature in more ways
:00:00. > :00:15.than others... Bear still reliant. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Big
:00:16. > :00:18.business gives its view on independence. Would a currency union
:00:19. > :00:22.leave Scotland done up "tighter than a kipper"? Or is an economic policy
:00:23. > :00:29.set for the south-east of England damaging businesses here?
:00:30. > :00:34.And, will this soon be a scene from the past, or can the internet save
:00:35. > :00:37.the Scottish newspaper industry? Good evening. Well you wouldn't
:00:38. > :00:40.exactly expect the grandson of Winston Churchill to be backing the
:00:41. > :00:44.Yes campaign. But Rupert Soames, the boss of Aggreko, told MSPs today
:00:45. > :00:47.that a currency union would leave an independent Scotland with no room
:00:48. > :00:51.for maneouvre. But other business leaders disagree, and even some of
:00:52. > :01:00.those who back 'no' are calling for full fiscal powers. Graham Stewart
:01:01. > :01:08.reports. This is Aggreko based in Dumbarton. It makes generators for
:01:09. > :01:11.locations all over the world. It was said that a sterling zone after
:01:12. > :01:15.independence would mean titre controls for Scotland. It is far too
:01:16. > :01:19.believe that it would be sensible controls for Scotland. It is far too
:01:20. > :01:25.for the rest of the UK to enter into a currency union for Scotland
:01:26. > :01:32.without Scotland being tied up tighter than a kipper. Another boss
:01:33. > :01:39.warned that projects had to be put on ice as a referendum left
:01:40. > :01:45.investors uncertain. It creates concern. It certainly has put a few
:01:46. > :01:53.projects that I am looking at on hold for the time being. He said
:01:54. > :01:55.that he had asked the Better Together campaign to give more tax
:01:56. > :02:03.powers for Hollywood without success. It together say that is for
:02:04. > :02:09.individual parties. This company as another Scottish one on the global
:02:10. > :02:12.stage. Its boss backs a yes vote and says a currency union makes sense
:02:13. > :02:18.and would still leave plenty for an independent Scotland to do. It gives
:02:19. > :02:22.you plenty of freedom to have the flexibility and define fiscal
:02:23. > :02:29.policies that would attract businesses to Scotland. This
:02:30. > :02:34.property developer also said that some firms resent change and are
:02:35. > :02:40.making excuses. It said Scotland had a good track record and has not
:02:41. > :02:49.encountered uncertainty. I need these guys day-to-day in the pub...
:02:50. > :02:58.I do not see a great deal of concern. There was no report from
:02:59. > :03:12.today's ceiling. That is because MSP 's are just as divided as they are.
:03:13. > :03:14.I'm joined in the studio by the chief executive of pro-independence
:03:15. > :03:22.group, Business for Scotland, Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp, and from
:03:23. > :03:27.group, Business for Scotland, Gordon Together. Gordon, before we get onto
:03:28. > :03:41.the general issues... There have been reports in some of the
:03:42. > :03:45.newspapers over the past few days that Standard Life may be about to
:03:46. > :03:47.say it considers independence has great risk. They are making an
:03:48. > :03:51.announcement in the morning. They are suggesting that they may even
:03:52. > :04:00.leave Scotland if there is a yes fault. That must be worrying? -- Yes
:04:01. > :04:03.vote. That was worrying before the pre-devolution referendum as well.
:04:04. > :04:15.Lots of businesses said that as well. We have heard it all before. I
:04:16. > :04:21.believe that Standard Life were one of the ones to leave. There was a
:04:22. > :04:26.poll in the Scotland on Sunday in 1997 that said 76% of big businesses
:04:27. > :04:29.got a yes vote for devolution would damage the economy. We were told
:04:30. > :04:36.that businesses would leave them. They did not. Everybody almost
:04:37. > :04:44.universally agrees that devolution has been good for business. If they
:04:45. > :04:53.do say that they say great risk, you would see this as another version of
:04:54. > :04:56.lustre? -- bluster? They may come to decisions along those lines. It
:04:57. > :05:05.would not be a clever decision. It would cost a lot of money. I do not
:05:06. > :05:08.think it would work for them. I am disappointed that Gordon is so
:05:09. > :05:12.complacent about one of the biggest employers in my constituency
:05:13. > :05:18.potentially threatening to leave. It will be interesting to see what
:05:19. > :05:28.potentially threatening to leave. It say as well. RBS... I am right in
:05:29. > :05:39.saying... They would adapt? We are speculating. It is quite clear,
:05:40. > :05:46.Standard Life have 98% of customers in England. They cannot sustain
:05:47. > :06:08.being in Scotland with the different currency. Hang on... The specific
:06:09. > :06:12.body that Standard Life have... Love our tax exemptions on pensions in
:06:13. > :06:21.the UK. That seems to be what is worrying them. The Scottish
:06:22. > :06:29.Government says they are would be but they are not sure. What we are
:06:30. > :06:33.talking about, it is quite interesting. All of the uncertainty
:06:34. > :06:39.has been created by the Westminster government as a political manoeuvre
:06:40. > :06:44.to try to win the referendum. If the UK Government says that the Scottish
:06:45. > :06:50.people need to know precisely what is happening on currency then should
:06:51. > :06:56.they not be letting businesses now as well. There is uncertainty over
:06:57. > :07:03.the EU according to them. Scotland is likely to vote to stay in, the
:07:04. > :07:13.rest of the UK is likely to see now. -- say no. That is uncertainty with
:07:14. > :07:19.a no vote as well. -- There is. We had the chief executive of the
:07:20. > :07:25.Scottish enterprise here today and he employs hundreds of thousands of
:07:26. > :07:29.people directly and indirectly. He said there was no certainty. Those
:07:30. > :07:35.are the facts coming from the professionals. I would rather listen
:07:36. > :07:41.to them. You are reeling off statistics that make no sense. From
:07:42. > :07:48.a business point of view, whatever the reasons are for the three main
:07:49. > :07:51.Unionist parties taking this position on currency, from the point
:07:52. > :08:02.of view of businesses would it not be rather better if a door was left
:08:03. > :08:13.open for negotiation? If that were the case... Y slammed the door? --
:08:14. > :08:20.Why slam the door? It hasn't been slammed in that case. Nonpartisan
:08:21. > :08:26.analysis has taken place. They have said that the SNP have essentially
:08:27. > :08:33.ruled out using the Euro. Then have the same concerns that the UK
:08:34. > :08:40.Government have about that. I would say to you that I hear what you are
:08:41. > :08:49.saying. But as a business it would suit us in Scotland if the door was
:08:50. > :09:03.not being slams shut. -- slammed shut. I don't accept what you are
:09:04. > :09:05.saying. If it is not in the interest of the rest of the United Kingdom,
:09:06. > :09:15.this is an issue for Scotland. of the rest of the United Kingdom,
:09:16. > :09:24.would not go into a currency union... That is not true.
:09:25. > :09:29.Businesses in England, Scotland decide to leave the United Kingdom
:09:30. > :09:39.then they should not fit the bill. -- foot the bill. As somebody on the
:09:40. > :09:45.yes side, surely the business community in Scotland would like the
:09:46. > :09:51.Scottish Government to see what it would do if it can't get this
:09:52. > :09:58.currency union? If I were a business I would say you may well be right. I
:09:59. > :10:07.accept all of that. The bottom line is that if you go for independence
:10:08. > :10:10.then I want to know what happens. I want to know what planning you are
:10:11. > :10:19.doing right now for that eventuality.
:10:20. > :10:23.There are several options for currency that could be made to work
:10:24. > :10:27.for Scotland. They cannot all be made to work for our friends and
:10:28. > :10:32.neighbours in the rest of the UK as well. You think having a separate
:10:33. > :10:38.currency would be perfectly workable? That is potentially one of
:10:39. > :10:43.many options that could work. Would you not like to see some planning
:10:44. > :10:48.being done on that? For example, if Scotland has its own central bank
:10:49. > :10:54.and sets up a scheme to put into deposits, but if it is? I genuinely
:10:55. > :11:01.believe we will have a currency union. Let me explain why. Ian
:11:02. > :11:02.Murray mentioned that English people are not happy with things. There is
:11:03. > :11:08.a huge issue are not happy with things. There is
:11:09. > :11:09.not get a fair share of the assets but takes its fair share of the
:11:10. > :11:13.debt, but takes its fair share of the
:11:14. > :11:20.international law, if we do not get the assets there is a risk of taking
:11:21. > :11:24.on the debt but the debt to GDP ratio that the rest of the UK would
:11:25. > :11:30.have, English mortgage payers could ever have that are having higher
:11:31. > :11:34.mortgages as a direct result. Thank you both very much.
:11:35. > :11:36.Circulation is down yet again for Scottish newspapers - the public's
:11:37. > :11:43.supposed thirst for knowledge about the independence debate doesn't seem
:11:44. > :11:47.to stretch to buying a paper. But it may be what has seen them flocking
:11:48. > :11:50.to the websites of both The Herald and the Scotsman. Internet traffic
:11:51. > :11:55.is up. Does this mean it's the death knell for the printed word? Suzanne
:11:56. > :12:01.Allan reports. They have kept us abreast of events
:12:02. > :12:09.from weddings to words, from boom to bust for centuries. Papers were how
:12:10. > :12:14.we got our news. But then the modern world is digital. Circulation
:12:15. > :12:20.figures for newspapers have been falling for years, today's figures
:12:21. > :12:27.are no different. All many city -based newspapers have continued to
:12:28. > :12:32.fall. The Scotsman is down 6% at the beginning of the year to below
:12:33. > :12:39.30,000 copies. The Herald was down 10% on the previous year at 39,000.
:12:40. > :12:46.A smaller amount for the Courier in Dundee, 5%. Is this the end of the
:12:47. > :12:55.printed edition of newspapers or can they survive? Yes, they can thrive
:12:56. > :13:03.but I think one of the measurements in terms of print styles and it is a
:13:04. > :13:07.bit of a misnomer these days because print sales have been going down for
:13:08. > :13:12.the last 30 years, but what is not properly recognised is that this
:13:13. > :13:22.online audience is increasing rapidly.
:13:23. > :13:26.Although, maybe not quite like this, not so long ago, a lot of us would
:13:27. > :13:35.have had our papers delivered in the morning. But has technology use up
:13:36. > :13:39.to us? It used to be when you picked up a paper in the morning, this was
:13:40. > :13:44.the first you had heard of the news, these days you can access it from
:13:45. > :13:51.the minute you wake up. On this, or on this, or on this. A mobile device
:13:52. > :13:55.that lets you access headlines from around the world any time, the
:13:56. > :14:00.ornate. Although a doomsday scenario has long been predicted, it seems
:14:01. > :14:07.that online could be the saviour. Online readership is on the up. The
:14:08. > :14:13.Scotsman has 2.6 million readers, that was in December. Up 41%. The
:14:14. > :14:20.Herald has 1.6 million readers each month, up 66% in one year. Online
:14:21. > :14:29.revenues continue to grow and the profits of The Herald, 40% of those
:14:30. > :14:34.profits came from online. There is a business model, there is light at
:14:35. > :14:38.the end of the tunnel. I feel somewhat dismayed sometimes when
:14:39. > :14:44.people only focus on print sales and then you get the doom mongers saying
:14:45. > :14:48.that the newspapers are finished and the ball disappeared.
:14:49. > :14:52.Smartphone and have just continues to rise steeply. I do digital or
:14:53. > :14:56.print? Opinion across Scotland was mixed. I just like to read the
:14:57. > :15:00.paper. mixed. I just like to read the
:15:01. > :15:12.and read the paper. mixed. I just like to read the
:15:13. > :15:15.bit additional! I never got to the bother of buying newspapers, I have
:15:16. > :15:21.the Internet on my phone so it is easier.
:15:22. > :15:26.This academic swims against the tide of popular opinion. He says that
:15:27. > :15:34.print will survive. We are talking about two things, hard copy and
:15:35. > :15:40.online. I believe, and this is unusual, I believe that hard copy
:15:41. > :15:46.will bottom out and battle and will survive into the foreseeable future,
:15:47. > :15:53.and I believe that online will, as it is beginning to show, signs of
:15:54. > :15:58.flourish. We will have parallel publishing with print and online
:15:59. > :16:01.formats both competing. For many there is nothing like having
:16:02. > :16:07.something physically in your hand. Alex Stubb believes this is why
:16:08. > :16:10.magazines are doing so well. The men's magazines, the women's
:16:11. > :16:16.magazines, specialist magazines, they all continue to flourish. So
:16:17. > :16:22.newspapers can flourish. Who reads at length online? You flit from one
:16:23. > :16:32.site to another. It is the butterfly effect. It is good news for certain
:16:33. > :16:35.newspapers. The likes of Irbin Times are bucking the trend.
:16:36. > :16:39.I'm joined from Edinburgh by the director of the Scottish Newspaper
:16:40. > :16:44.Society, John McLellan. John, this is marvellous that these new
:16:45. > :16:48.newspapers are getting broader audiences than they ever had before
:16:49. > :16:53.online, but the real issue for newspapers is whether they can make
:16:54. > :16:57.any money out of it? That is correct. I think newspaper companies
:16:58. > :17:04.up correct. I think newspaper companies
:17:05. > :17:10.money. There are ongoing issues with the transitional period we are in
:17:11. > :17:15.just now where online sales are going up and print sales are
:17:16. > :17:23.dropping. But I your thumb pointed out, there will be a point that the
:17:24. > :17:29.tool # the two will meet at a more stable business model will arrive.
:17:30. > :17:32.As there a stable and serve anywhere of a newspaper that is making
:17:33. > :17:40.serious money with the subscriber model online? Does the New York
:17:41. > :17:48.Times make any serious money out of it? I do not have figures to hand
:17:49. > :17:53.but there are examples of models that are attracting readers and
:17:54. > :18:02.growing numbers, the likes of News UK, the sun is proving a popular
:18:03. > :18:09.digital vehicle because it has invested and its football coverage
:18:10. > :18:13.-- the Son. The game of any businesses as no different to that
:18:14. > :18:17.of newspapers. It is about providing people with what they want, how they
:18:18. > :18:21.want it, at a price they are willing to pay. Because we are going through
:18:22. > :18:27.these fast changing times, businesses are trying to work out
:18:28. > :18:31.what the correct balance is. It is providing the correct content and
:18:32. > :18:37.that will remain key. Do you think there is a future for newspapers in
:18:38. > :18:39.a different sense. One of the things about the Internet is that people
:18:40. > :18:45.can use a search engine and that will take them to what they want to
:18:46. > :18:49.read, so they are accessing material and newspapers in that way, rather
:18:50. > :18:52.than thinking about wanting to read the Scotsman, The Herald, the Times
:18:53. > :18:58.or the Guardian and going to their sites, is that a threat to the
:18:59. > :19:03.branding of newspapers? It is not a threat, but it is certainly a
:19:04. > :19:06.challenge. The idea must be to find effective ways to market what you
:19:07. > :19:14.have as it has always been and that is the only way that traditional
:19:15. > :19:18.brands can market themselves. Rebranding could be key to future
:19:19. > :19:23.success. We will have to leave it there for the moment.
:19:24. > :19:33.Now a quick look at tomorrow's front pages. The Scotsman, it leads on the
:19:34. > :19:40.case of Lee Rigby. It says there were scuffles in court as the
:19:41. > :19:50.killers were led to the dog. The Co-op also selling off farms after
:19:51. > :19:56.losses. -- led to the dog. The victim of Lynda Spence. The
:19:57. > :19:59.Telegraph, EU will help to heal our divisions, says Angela Merkel.
:20:00. > :20:18.Goodbye. Things turning wet and windy
:20:19. > :20:23.overnight. That wind across England tomorrow morning. Brighter skies
:20:24. > :20:29.will follow with sunny spells but also showers. More showers than we
:20:30. > :20:33.saw today. Particularly for Wales and the Southern counties of
:20:34. > :20:38.England. Showers for Scotland with snow on the hills, a wet afternoon
:20:39. > :20:42.for Shetland. Much of Eastern England will brighten up nicely. One
:20:43. > :20:46.or two afternoon showers. There should be plenty of sunshine after
:20:47. > :20:48.that line disappears. Some showers for the South East. More showers and
:20:49. > :20:54.we saw today. for the South East. More showers and
:20:55. > :20:59.could be heavy, possibly thundery,