:00:00. > :00:00.600 does not change that. But Captain Mbaye saved those lives
:00:00. > :00:19.because, simply, he thought it was the right thing to do.
:00:20. > :00:23.Tonight on Newsnight Scotland - welcome to Glasgow. This is the
:00:24. > :00:28.sight that will launch the Commonwealth Games. But what will
:00:29. > :00:34.rest of the world think of it? Good evening. People on Twitter were
:00:35. > :00:37.suggesting that it might still be the 1st of April this morning, when
:00:38. > :00:45.it was announced that the centrepiece of the opening ceremony
:00:46. > :00:47.would be the synchronised demolition of the Red Road flats. It would
:00:48. > :00:53.conveniently save on the fireworks budget. In a moment, we will speak
:00:54. > :00:56.to the council leader, but first, Huw Williams asks if the destruction
:00:57. > :01:03.of social housing for spectacle is the best way to do regeneration. No
:01:04. > :01:10.half measures about Glasgow housing, everything is looking up... 1960s
:01:11. > :01:14.tower blocks like the Red Road flats were built as cities in the sky, the
:01:15. > :01:22.answer to Glasgow's slums. People have a pilot's eye view of their
:01:23. > :01:26.great city. Some who lived here will have fond memories of their time in
:01:27. > :01:37.what were once the tallest flats in Europe. But it was not long before
:01:38. > :01:42.the dream turned sour. One block was demolished two years ago, a second
:01:43. > :01:46.last May. Now, five of the remaining six towers are to be brought down as
:01:47. > :01:53.part of the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony.
:01:54. > :01:59.It is an amazing experience, it is not just a stunt. There is a real
:02:00. > :02:04.sense of a period of history ending and a new one beginning. It is quite
:02:05. > :02:10.emotional. No one is saying the Red Road flats
:02:11. > :02:13.should have been turned into an arts venue, but there are other ways of
:02:14. > :02:21.demonstrating regeneration in action. Take this place as an
:02:22. > :02:28.example. This building was construct did in 1873 as the fish market of
:02:29. > :02:34.Glasgow. It lay empty from the 1970s and through much of the 1980s. It
:02:35. > :02:39.was then be developed by us in 2009. It now houses 45 artists and 25
:02:40. > :02:45.cultural organisations and is home to more than 150 people. Now, it is
:02:46. > :02:49.hosting an exhibition, part of the Glasgow International Festival,
:02:50. > :02:54.which opens tomorrow. Organisers say the city is a vibrant centre for the
:02:55. > :02:58.arts because so many graduates from local colleges stay on and find
:02:59. > :03:03.studios here. Now, the festival is also finding new buildings to show
:03:04. > :03:07.work in. Rather than the doors being closed, we have pushed into having
:03:08. > :03:13.contemporary art works in different buildings, and hopefully more of
:03:14. > :03:17.that will start to happen. But also space like a bathhouse, a community
:03:18. > :03:21.space, used for everything from theatre production to weddings, it
:03:22. > :03:26.is a space which is active in the community, and we have been able to
:03:27. > :03:30.put contemporary art in it. The Edwardian baths are being conserved,
:03:31. > :03:37.with plans to turn them into what is called a well-being centre. It is
:03:38. > :03:41.fantastic to see the Glasgow International Festival bringing this
:03:42. > :03:46.art here. 30 years ago, the building was closed and essentially had
:03:47. > :03:52.become derelict. We have come a long way. What do you think of the art
:03:53. > :03:56.that they are showing? It is fantastic, I am really pleased with
:03:57. > :03:59.the art works. They are very enjoyable. I have been here since
:04:00. > :04:05.the start, when they brought them in, and it has been really good to
:04:06. > :04:10.see it. Two of the artists say this installation of sculptures at the
:04:11. > :04:17.Govanhill baths is meant to be a since you will experience with a
:04:18. > :04:27.strong emphasis on sex and sexuality. -- since you'll
:04:28. > :04:32.experience. This idea of taking old masterworks and poking fun at them,
:04:33. > :04:38.turning them into bouncy castles, it is funny for two seconds, and then
:04:39. > :04:41.after that, you think, we would rather be looking at something else
:04:42. > :04:48.instead. But I love the space. The space is fantastic. Back in
:04:49. > :04:53.Glasgow's former fish market, all of the works on show have been
:04:54. > :05:00.retrained from Museum and Art Gallery store rooms, where they have
:05:01. > :05:03.languished, some four decades. We started off having a jokey
:05:04. > :05:07.conversation about a sculpture graveyard and how useful it would be
:05:08. > :05:13.in terms of being able to come and place works there. What happens to a
:05:14. > :05:19.sculpture after a particular exhibition? From that conversation,
:05:20. > :05:24.that is where this came from. But if this exhibition proves anything, it
:05:25. > :05:29.is that fashionable, cutting-edge art has a shelf life. So, will the
:05:30. > :05:33.work highlighted at GI this year and up in Gallery store rooms in a few
:05:34. > :05:40.years' time, because we do not wait it any more? It just shows us that
:05:41. > :05:45.really, like anything, fiction, music, things come in and out, but
:05:46. > :05:49.ultimately, artistic ideas which question us at this moment are
:05:50. > :05:53.really important. But I think we can embrace a bit of embarrassment and
:05:54. > :05:57.failure, because most of it is really good and it will be for a
:05:58. > :06:01.long time. Perhaps architecture also has its best before date. But what
:06:02. > :06:08.are we actually saying by blowing these buildings up to celebrate a
:06:09. > :06:15.festival of sport? I am joined in the studio by the leader of Glasgow
:06:16. > :06:18.City Council, Gordon Matheson, as well as by Alan Dunlop a visiting
:06:19. > :06:24.professor of architecture at Robert Gordon University. In Edinburgh is
:06:25. > :06:29.Joyce McMillan from The Scotsman. Gordon Matheson, I would like to ask
:06:30. > :06:33.you a terribly sophisticated question about this, but everybody I
:06:34. > :06:40.have talked to about this today just says, what? I have to say, when the
:06:41. > :06:44.suggestion was first presented to me, I was taken aback by it
:06:45. > :06:50.initially as well. I asked the question, what, live? And when it
:06:51. > :06:56.began to dawn on me, I became quite emotional. I think it is actually a
:06:57. > :07:01.wonderful thing to do. I think it is a very brave and bold statement. But
:07:02. > :07:09.what is it supposed to say? Well, what it says is that Red Road flats
:07:10. > :07:13.were better housing at the time when they were built, for most of the
:07:14. > :07:20.people who moved into them. But that is in the past, and most able now
:07:21. > :07:23.want low rise living. But remember this is being done as part of an
:07:24. > :07:28.opening ceremony, with people from all around the world. Frankly, if I
:07:29. > :07:32.were from Australia or Canada, I would be sitting there thinking,
:07:33. > :07:37.sorry, why are they blowing up their council houses as part of an opening
:07:38. > :07:42.ceremony? Because the high-rise in question are unoccupied. One of them
:07:43. > :07:46.had been planned to come down in any event, which is because people have
:07:47. > :07:55.chosen to have a different style of housing. But many people in
:07:56. > :07:59.Commonwealth countries quite happily live in high rise apartment blocks.
:08:00. > :08:04.This is an international event, maybe there has been an unfortunate
:08:05. > :08:08.experience in Glasgow, but that is not necessarily the way people in
:08:09. > :08:13.India or Sri Lanka seek it? I think the message which we have come
:08:14. > :08:19.across overwhelmingly is that this is a bold development, was happening
:08:20. > :08:24.in any event, and it encapsulates the regeneration which is ongoing
:08:25. > :08:27.within the city of Glasgow. But in terms of basic sensitivity, the
:08:28. > :08:32.other obvious thing which people from North America in particular
:08:33. > :08:36.might think is, this looks a bit like the twin towers coming down?
:08:37. > :08:42.That is the first time I have ever heard that, I have got to say. I
:08:43. > :08:45.think sensitivity does need to be shown, certainly, in relation to the
:08:46. > :08:52.people who have lived there over the decades. But it seems that no matter
:08:53. > :08:56.what's being you put on it, the bit where you say, we are going to do
:08:57. > :09:01.this, and this is what it means, there is a complete disconnect. And
:09:02. > :09:05.I think that is for people in Glasgow, so the idea that a global
:09:06. > :09:09.audience is going to understand what you mean to say by this, to me, it
:09:10. > :09:14.seems unintelligible? I disagree with you on that. I think actually,
:09:15. > :09:20.when you see how it fits into the overall programme of the opening
:09:21. > :09:28.ceremony, you will see that it is in context. But if you have a huge new
:09:29. > :09:33.development, wrapped up in celluloid, which you then stripped
:09:34. > :09:36.off to unveil something new, but you are not, it is not that you are
:09:37. > :09:46.unveiling something, you are destroying it? There are 600 new
:09:47. > :09:52.homes all within the immediate vicinity... That people watching
:09:53. > :10:01.around the world, they don't know that. I do think that when the eyes
:10:02. > :10:07.of the world are on Glasgow, it should only be shiny and new things
:10:08. > :10:14.that are shown. We are demonstrating that we are open and proud about our
:10:15. > :10:17.social history, but brave about regeneration. What do you make of
:10:18. > :10:25.this. I was driving down from Aberdeen when I heard the news, and
:10:26. > :10:34.I nearly ended up in a ditch. Everybody I have spoken to thinks it
:10:35. > :10:41.is bananas. It could have been a sketch from the 2012 television
:10:42. > :10:48.show. They would probably have dismissed it. It is a crazy idea.
:10:49. > :10:53.The city council have taken on such a responsibility. What if something
:10:54. > :11:01.went wrong in that process? How do other people around the world know
:11:02. > :11:12.anything at all or care... ? The point I was making is that it is a
:11:13. > :11:22.prize to move into a tower block. People love it. In a way, it is a
:11:23. > :11:27.social issue. It is a social issue. People in Delhi will be wondering
:11:28. > :11:36.why you are blowing up social housing. I don't think it has been
:11:37. > :11:42.thought through properly. It seems like a bizarre, PR stunt that has
:11:43. > :11:49.the potential to go really wrong. Joyce MacMillan, you are here as a
:11:50. > :11:57.theatre critic. What do you make of it. I am anxious. I can
:11:58. > :12:05.understand... I know the story of the Red Road flats, the history of
:12:06. > :12:12.it, a place where asylum seekers lived. The aspirations that went
:12:13. > :12:20.with that type of building. It is a great story. But it is a very
:12:21. > :12:25.complex story and it is our story that does not end at the moment of
:12:26. > :12:31.demolition. Staging that moment of demolition at the most spec accurate
:12:32. > :12:40.part of their ceremony could be a terrible error. It has to be a
:12:41. > :12:46.simple idea and deed. And it will be hard to take them with you through
:12:47. > :12:53.the most positive parts of the narrative. I think it's a very high
:12:54. > :12:56.risk thing to do. It would have to be surrounded by incredible use
:12:57. > :13:04.sophisticated and intelligent visuals, music and writing. In order
:13:05. > :13:10.to make any kind of sense of it and to make it seem as anything other
:13:11. > :13:16.than an act of self destruction. We will talk about the narration in a
:13:17. > :13:22.moment. But one block will be left because there are asylum seekers
:13:23. > :13:33.living there. Anything I know how that will go over a month the press
:13:34. > :13:37.around the world. It is going to look terrible. I don't agree. I'm
:13:38. > :13:43.proud of the fact that Glasgow was the only council in Scotland to take
:13:44. > :13:47.asylum seekers. I'm sure you are. But this is a spectacle which will
:13:48. > :13:53.be seen by tens of millions of people. They don't know anything
:13:54. > :13:58.about Glasgow. When their local papers report, and they will not
:13:59. > :14:05.report the entire context, able see the left one block standing because
:14:06. > :14:11.asylum seekers are in it. The five blocks are empty at the moment. The
:14:12. > :14:14.preparation has been underway for some time. Including working on a
:14:15. > :14:20.long-term social history of the area. The plan was always to bring
:14:21. > :14:25.down those blocks. But the idea of bringing it to gather and highly
:14:26. > :14:31.taken -- and highlighting it is part of the regeneration festival. But if
:14:32. > :14:37.this is going to be salvaged in some way, it would have to be surrounded
:14:38. > :14:46.I some very complex narratives as part of your opening ceremony. What
:14:47. > :14:53.we are doing is highlighting Glasgow's social history to simply
:14:54. > :14:59.unveil the new... What are you going to do around the actual spectacular
:15:00. > :15:08.lowing up bit to do that? Two points there. Arid Red Road flats there are
:15:09. > :15:14.600 new ones. That is key to this. Joyce MacMillan's point is the
:15:15. > :15:19.ceremony. You have to tell people that in the ceremony. In terms of
:15:20. > :15:27.the ceremony, the event of the demolition is fully integrated into
:15:28. > :15:33.the overall peace. That will become obvious, but I cannot give you an
:15:34. > :15:41.insight into that. You don't have to give us details. But you will have
:15:42. > :15:50.to give us some idea pretty soon. It sounds bonkers. Is this instead of
:15:51. > :15:58.fireworks? I think that this is brave. I dig it sends a very strong
:15:59. > :16:03.and positive message, which is why it doesn't only have the support of
:16:04. > :16:07.Glasgow City Council. I was at a meeting with Alex Salmond who has
:16:08. > :16:13.signed off on this. It has the support of the 2014 organising
:16:14. > :16:17.committee. What does it say about high-rise buildings? There are
:16:18. > :16:22.high-rise buildings which remain in the city. It's not simply saying
:16:23. > :16:28.that high-rise living is inappropriate. It is saying that the
:16:29. > :16:32.regeneration in Glasgow is underway and we are making a very bold
:16:33. > :16:37.statement that will become clearer in terms of the overall narrative.
:16:38. > :16:44.Do you think we have a distorted idea of high-rise buildings because
:16:45. > :16:56.of the way they were used? They do. Glasgow is a brilliant city for the
:16:57. > :17:02.potential for high-rises. You can see man skips all around the city.
:17:03. > :17:08.But they have to be done properly, built properly, maintained properly,
:17:09. > :17:12.invested in. In Glasgow, we have a fantastic high rise development at
:17:13. > :17:19.Annis and. Agreed a listed structure. People love living here
:17:20. > :17:26.because it has a heart. The strange thing about the Red Road project is
:17:27. > :17:30.that if people are encouraged to delve into this, they will find that
:17:31. > :17:40.the source of many of the problems came from Glasgow City Corporation.
:17:41. > :17:44.If people dig into the history, they will find that the source of many of
:17:45. > :17:54.the problems came from the corporation. I hope it will
:17:55. > :17:58.stimulate that discussion. There are places in the world where people
:17:59. > :18:05.love living in high rises? Of course there are, including Glasgow. But I
:18:06. > :18:08.would go this far to say that there are many cities in the world which
:18:09. > :18:13.have had to destroy large housing projects which were built around
:18:14. > :18:19.this time. It's not something that will not be recognised by some other
:18:20. > :18:24.cities in the world as something they too have had to do. But it is a
:18:25. > :18:29.complicated story and I really would question whether it is a suitable
:18:30. > :18:38.thing for something like a celebratory opening ceremony. In
:18:39. > :18:43.London, there was this celebration of the NHS. That was a simple story
:18:44. > :18:47.computer the story of the Red Road flats.
:18:48. > :18:49.Thank you. A quick look at tomorrow's front
:18:50. > :18:57.pages. The Daily Telegraph. MPs conspire to
:18:58. > :19:22.save Maria Miller. Good evening. This should be the
:19:23. > :19:28.last day of high pollution levels. There will be a change in wind
:19:29. > :19:36.direction tomorrow which will push that pollution out over the North
:19:37. > :19:42.Sea. Some say Mr affecting the North-South -- the east coast in
:19:43. > :19:44.Northern Ireland. The wind direction won't change across the north-east
:19:45. > :19:45.of