:00:00. > :00:00.fields, as well as the cows. Politics - so we will all ultimately
:00:00. > :00:16.decide there is room for both. On Newsnight Scotland - if it is
:00:17. > :00:20.true, the result of the referendum will depend on whether you feel your
:00:21. > :00:27.personal prosperity will benefit or suffer. What should we make of calls
:00:28. > :00:31.to prioritise the inequality? And would constitutional change make
:00:32. > :00:36.that any more possible? Good evening. In this era of
:00:37. > :00:40.austerity politics, it is no surprise the media is full of
:00:41. > :00:50.stories about food banks. We hear tales of fabulous celebrity wealth.
:00:51. > :00:55.Holyrood will discuss how to get out of the poverty trap. First our
:00:56. > :00:59.economics correspondent, Coletta Smith, looks at inequality in
:01:00. > :01:06.Scotland. Aberdeen may be wealthy, but it is a place of extremes. This
:01:07. > :01:11.report starts at a city food bank. You could add vegetables. You can do
:01:12. > :01:22.a lot with couscous. I eat a lot of couscous. Claiming is
:01:23. > :01:26.a very big thing. If they buy stuff they cannot buy toiletries and then
:01:27. > :01:33.they cannot buy the cleaning stuff. A lot are washing their hair with
:01:34. > :01:40.washing up liquid. How do you help people and give out bags in your own
:01:41. > :01:44.neighbourhood? Some weeks you have to take one for yourself as well. It
:01:45. > :01:50.is not nice. Why should people be keeping me. I should be keeping
:01:51. > :01:56.myself. My mum and father brought me up, you do not ask anybody for
:01:57. > :02:01.nothing. I do need help. On the other side of Aberdeen things roll
:02:02. > :02:06.very differently. This is the area with more 4X4s than anywhere else in
:02:07. > :02:11.the UK. With calls for financial equality becoming a central planking
:02:12. > :02:19.in the debate and extremes like Aberdeen, it is worth finding out
:02:20. > :02:25.how unequal Scotland really is. Figures from 2010 show the UK was
:02:26. > :02:30.the seventh most unequal of the world's developed country. With
:02:31. > :02:33.chilli being the most un unequal and the Nordic countries being the most
:02:34. > :02:37.equal. Scotland would be in the middle of that list. It is more
:02:38. > :02:40.equal than the UK as a whole, largely because in London there is a
:02:41. > :02:44.massive difference between those who are paid the most and those who are
:02:45. > :02:48.paid the least. During the 1990s, what we saw in Scotland is less
:02:49. > :02:55.inequality. More and more people were joining the middle classes,
:02:56. > :03:00.except for that top 5% of high earners. Of course, the bottom 5%,
:03:01. > :03:05.who were getting left behind. What we have seen these last three or
:03:06. > :03:09.four years is more and more people joining the bottom shelf and getting
:03:10. > :03:14.caught in the poverty trap. It is mainly families we are working with.
:03:15. > :03:17.Decent families, good people, who would love to get out of the trap
:03:18. > :03:21.they are in if they could find their way. You will see, both of them are
:03:22. > :03:26.working - they only have a part-time job on the minimum wage. It does not
:03:27. > :03:33.bring enough money into the house for them. Would independence bring
:03:34. > :03:38.about a more equal Scotlanded? Fewer pockets of -- Scotland? Fewer
:03:39. > :03:43.pockets of 4X4s. It has been the lowest paid who have suffered the
:03:44. > :03:49.most. They have seen wage cuts. The top 10% of corporate managers have
:03:50. > :03:54.seen significant real-wage rises. If Scotland does vote yes, would a new
:03:55. > :03:58.Government be able to deal with inequality more effectively?
:03:59. > :04:04.Domestic policy can make a difference. It will require them to
:04:05. > :04:08.take on interest, particularly in boardrooms and be active in areas
:04:09. > :04:13.they have refused to be active in for a long time now. Scotland faces
:04:14. > :04:19.different problems in different areas N the Highlands and islands,
:04:20. > :04:22.it is not all plain sailing. It costs more to go about and heat your
:04:23. > :04:26.house. The enterprise agency are trying to deal with that through
:04:27. > :04:31.higher wages. What we are trying to focus on is encouraging business
:04:32. > :04:36.development, business growth, that helps increase average incomes or
:04:37. > :04:40.support slightly higher wage rates than traditionally have been
:04:41. > :04:45.supported across the islands and Highlands area. Looking at growing
:04:46. > :04:51.sectors where there are key markets, such as life sciences and renewable
:04:52. > :04:54.energy. Also in the more traditional industries, supporting developments
:04:55. > :04:59.which are very high quality, for example, the tourism sector and
:05:00. > :05:03.high-quality food and drink products, aimed at exports in the
:05:04. > :05:06.main. The Government, in an independent Scotland would have new
:05:07. > :05:11.powers to change taxes and benefits. If they want to attract more foreign
:05:12. > :05:15.investment, it is a difficult balance between creating jobs and
:05:16. > :05:20.raising wages. I am joined from Edinburgh by Jamie
:05:21. > :05:25.Livingston, head of Oxfam Scotland. His charity has been telling MSPs to
:05:26. > :05:30.get their priorities right. And here in Glasgow, Blair Jenkins of the Yes
:05:31. > :05:34.Scotland campaign and Jackie Baillie, the Labour SMP, tonight
:05:35. > :05:38.speaking for Better Together. Thank you for joining me. First to you,
:05:39. > :05:45.Blair Jenkins, we heard that Scotland has to east sen sthally --
:05:46. > :05:49.essentially break free interest Westminster to deal with this.
:05:50. > :05:56.Scotland is average compared to the other OEC dfrmt countries. -- OECD
:05:57. > :06:00.countries. It is a big part of this debate and why people are moving to
:06:01. > :06:04.yes, is the belief that an independent Scotland would set a
:06:05. > :06:08.higher priority against social justice, greater equality of wealth.
:06:09. > :06:11.As a simple starting point, we know for sure an independent Scotland,
:06:12. > :06:15.any Government of an independent Scotland would not have introduced
:06:16. > :06:20.the bedroom tax. It would not have happened. This is a strong that
:06:21. > :06:24.raive from yes, that we are -- narrative from yes, that we are so
:06:25. > :06:30.hard done by. When you look at the figures maybe it is not so hard done
:06:31. > :06:35.by. In my lifetime, I don't recall a time when there were so many people
:06:36. > :06:39.struggling to get by. People who feel insecure in their employment,
:06:40. > :06:43.insecure about their children's prospects. That high level of stress
:06:44. > :06:48.and anxiety and a feeling that you are only a pawn in a larger system
:06:49. > :06:54.that does not care about you - these are fairly recent things. These are
:06:55. > :06:57.features of the past 20 years in Scotland. What kind of society do we
:06:58. > :07:01.want? What kind of values and priorities do we have? Which outcome
:07:02. > :07:06.in September is most likely to do something about it - Holyrood or
:07:07. > :07:10.Westminster? What kind of values do you have? You are kind of stuck
:07:11. > :07:15.between a rock and a hard place here. You have to hook in with the
:07:16. > :07:20.Conservatives in Better Together, yet attempting to tackle
:07:21. > :07:28.inequalities, as we see controversial welfare reforms.
:07:29. > :07:33.That has never been delivered because of constitutional change. It
:07:34. > :07:37.is deliver because of political Will. Our track record when you
:07:38. > :07:41.consider it in tackling child poverty saw a drop of 20% in
:07:42. > :07:47.absolute child poverty under Labour, but really only a tiny drop of
:07:48. > :07:49.something like 3%, under the SNP. The reality is the Scottish
:07:50. > :07:54.Government and the Scottish Parliament have the powers already,
:07:55. > :07:58.to tackle inequality, in quite a sub San shall way, but they have not
:07:59. > :08:02.used those powers effectively. As we have been pointing out, there is a
:08:03. > :08:05.strong narrative from the yes campaign much more will be done in
:08:06. > :08:08.an independent Scotland to tackle inequality and you are stuck with
:08:09. > :08:14.the Conservatives. You know, there is no evidence of that. The SNP's
:08:15. > :08:19.own expert working group on the welfare state is saying that the
:08:20. > :08:23.least risk is to stick with Westminster paying benefit, so there
:08:24. > :08:26.isn't going to be the ability to vary dramatically from what is there
:08:27. > :08:30.and I have to say, when you ask hem for the detail of that, there is
:08:31. > :08:34.nothing there, and on top of that, if you look at how they are actually
:08:35. > :08:41.talking about the economy, you cannot have on the one hand, a 3%
:08:42. > :08:45.cut in corporation tax... I want to bring in Jamie Livingstone here.
:08:46. > :08:49.Oxfam is best known for your work an broad but for almost 20 years your
:08:50. > :08:52.organisation has been working, tackling poverty in the United
:08:53. > :08:55.Kingdom. Can you give us some perspective here, how does the UK in
:08:56. > :09:01.Scotland compare with the rest of the world when it comes to
:09:02. > :09:04.enequality? I don't think we should underestimate the plight of people
:09:05. > :09:09.living in poverty. You talk about food banks in the report and it did
:09:10. > :09:12.a good job of highlighting the sort of choices people are having to
:09:13. > :09:17.make. The figures show in the last year we have seen a five fold
:09:18. > :09:22.increase in the number of people using food banks, some 77,000 Scots
:09:23. > :09:28.are having to turn for support. That is not a situation any of us want to
:09:29. > :09:31.be in. In terms of inequality, figures from the Office for National
:09:32. > :09:38.Statistics back in 2012, with we have no reason to believe that is
:09:39. > :09:42.changed, shows the top 10% are some 273 times richer than the poorest
:09:43. > :09:45.10% in Scotland, so I think we have to not underestimate the scale of
:09:46. > :09:49.inequality and we don't think that is just bad for people living in
:09:50. > :09:54.poverty, we think it is bad for society as a whole, and broader than
:09:55. > :09:59.that, even the international monetary fund suggests that the sort
:10:00. > :10:03.of extreme inequality we are facing, is under mining economic growth, so
:10:04. > :10:07.it is bad for the economy too. OK. I saw you nodding there Blair Jenkins,
:10:08. > :10:11.but as Jackie Baillie was hinting there, how can you look to address
:10:12. > :10:16.this inequality when you are promising this cut in corporation
:10:17. > :10:21.tax? Perhaps attracting the companies here who will give their
:10:22. > :10:27.workers low Weymouths? I am not promising a cut in corporation tax.
:10:28. > :10:31.I would agree with what Jamie said, there are other country, societies
:10:32. > :10:36.we can look at which get these thing right, to a better extent than the
:10:37. > :10:39.UK does. The Scandinavian countries achieve good economic outcome, they
:10:40. > :10:43.achieve a much more equal society, much more equality of opportunity.
:10:44. > :10:46.We have done polling recently which we published that shows a mamty of
:10:47. > :10:50.people in Scotland, most people believe an independent Scotland
:10:51. > :10:53.would be a fairer society, where there were greater priority attached
:10:54. > :11:00.to equality of opportunity and social justice. Almost half of
:11:01. > :11:06.Labour voter voters believe an independent Scotland would be fairer
:11:07. > :11:10.country and it is right. The SNP are the cheerleaders of yes, so that is
:11:11. > :11:15.a fundamental policy, looking at independence for Scotland What is
:11:16. > :11:20.done about taxation levels will about who wins the election, like a
:11:21. > :11:23.lot t people I would be interested to see what the Labour Party in
:11:24. > :11:28.Scotland left to their own device, the kind of policies it would put
:11:29. > :11:32.forward. Jackie Baillie, what would the Labour Party do? The party of
:11:33. > :11:38.the people well-known for supporting that benefit cap at Westminster. The
:11:39. > :11:42.SNP will want to debate tax and benefit, they do not address
:11:43. > :11:47.inequality. Getting people into work, making work pay, doing things
:11:48. > :11:51.like that will make a fundamental difference, here we have, you know,
:11:52. > :11:55.yes Scotland and the SNP quite clearly aligned to a 3% cut in
:11:56. > :12:01.corporation tax, which will lead to a race to the bottom. It benefits
:12:02. > :12:09.big business, the banks, you know, it doesn't benefit those... Can I
:12:10. > :12:14.also say... For the SNP to want to cut corporation tax 3% more than
:12:15. > :12:20.even George Osborne, takes us to a new low. Can I also add that here we
:12:21. > :12:24.have a real opportunity in Scotland now, not with independence but right
:12:25. > :12:28.now, to do something about those who are the most low paid, we could
:12:29. > :12:32.introduce the living wage through the procurement bill going through
:12:33. > :12:36.Parliament but the SNP have set their face against that. That would
:12:37. > :12:41.make a huge difference to 400,000 workers in the private sector, at
:12:42. > :12:47.least 64% of who are women. I want to bring in... Jamie back in. Jamie
:12:48. > :12:51.Livingstone, we heard Jackie Baillie talking about tax rises, maybe not
:12:52. > :12:56.the way forward. Wages are perhaps the key thing here, you were
:12:57. > :13:00.criticising in your submission to the committee for being in hock to
:13:01. > :13:04.the oil companies, but is that not just a natural part of globalisation
:13:05. > :13:09.that we have to, that we have to pay heed to these company, and people do
:13:10. > :13:14.have these big salaries, in these companies and other people earn
:13:15. > :13:19.less? I think Steven Boyd was right if his report, that Governments and
:13:20. > :13:24.politicians need to be pretty Bray and channelling vested interests but
:13:25. > :13:28.the point we have to say is we can't just simply focus on producing more
:13:29. > :13:32.jobs in the economy, they need to be decent jobs, they need to have
:13:33. > :13:36.security of employment but a decent income. Jackie Baillie is right, we
:13:37. > :13:42.immediate to move from a minimum wage to a living wage. And beyond
:13:43. > :13:45.that, yes, we need to start challenging the vested interests, we
:13:46. > :13:49.need to start thinking about rebalancing the books not on the
:13:50. > :13:53.poorest people through welfare cuts but on people who can well afford
:13:54. > :13:57.it, progressive taxation needs to be part that mix, but so too does
:13:58. > :14:02.making sure whether you are in work or out of work you have enough money
:14:03. > :14:06.to work with the grow of dignity with which we expect. Thank you for
:14:07. > :14:10.that. I want to pick up another subject with you two in the front
:14:11. > :14:17.pigeon of the Scotsman tomorrow, we have the headline now, BBC quits the
:14:18. > :14:22.CBI over the backing for union corporation, joins exodus. First to
:14:23. > :14:27.you Blair, is this the right thing to do for the corporation as a
:14:28. > :14:32.former corporation man yourself? It is right. It's the only thing the
:14:33. > :14:36.BBC could do. The BBC's role in this uniquely important moment in
:14:37. > :14:41.Scottish history is so important, so I think the BBC, if anything has
:14:42. > :14:45.been slow in moving but I am glad it has moved now. STV moved quickly,
:14:46. > :14:50.but there is no way at such a moment the BBC could have stayed as part of
:14:51. > :14:55.an organisation which is campaigning on one side. And Jackie Baillie, the
:14:56. > :15:01.right or wrong thing to do for the BBC, leaving, suspending membership
:15:02. > :15:05.on the 18th May to 19th September? I think the BBC has prided itself on
:15:06. > :15:09.its independence, and I think that is important in the debate going
:15:10. > :15:12.forward, it is a matter of gret though, that frankly there are many
:15:13. > :15:16.different organisations operating under the yes Scotland banner, they
:15:17. > :15:20.have yet to register with the Electoral Commission, and yet they
:15:21. > :15:25.are spending money on campaigning for a yes vote, without being
:15:26. > :15:28.transparent about it. OK, thank you very much. A quick look at another
:15:29. > :15:35.paper for tomorrow. The Daily Telegraph, we have moves to end the
:15:36. > :15:39.Queen's role as head of church. And Cameron says Boris could be given
:15:40. > :15:42.safe Tory seat. Those are the headlines in the Telegraph. That is
:15:43. > :15:46.all from me. Gordon is back at Monday with a special programme,
:15:47. > :15:53.from all of us here a very good night.
:15:54. > :15:59.Hello. The weather at the moment across the country is reverting to
:16:00. > :16:03.type, sunny spells and scattered shower, it is April after all. Now
:16:04. > :16:07.the showers will continue to drift up there the spine the country. Some
:16:08. > :16:11.heavy and widespread, further west, the best of the brightness will be,
:16:12. > :16:13.that is where we will keep the sunshine into Northern Ireland
:16:14. > :16:17.throughout the afternoon. 12 or 13 degrees the high. Into western
:16:18. > :16:22.Scotland. To the east here we could see more of an easterly breeze
:16:23. > :16:27.dragging in more cloud and the odd isolated showers. Shorts into the
:16:28. > :16:30.north of England, some heavy, widespread on the higher grouped.
:16:31. > :16:34.Same too for the mid lands and maybe down as far as Buckinghamshire. Into
:16:35. > :16:36.East Anglia and the south-east corner, we could see a drier slot
:16:37. > :16:40.and the temperatures starting to climb. Maybe into the high teens
:16:41. > :16:44.before the day is through. The best of the brightness into the
:16:45. > :16:49.south-west and for South Wales a bit of uncertainty as to how far into
:16:50. > :16:52.Wales those more prolific showers will develop through the day. As we
:16:53. > :16:57.move in to Saturday, we will see a band of rain stretching its way
:16:58. > :17:01.steadily northwards, a drier slot behind, sunny spell, scattered
:17:02. > :17:03.showers and strong wind following in, with