:00:00. > :00:00.have noticed she has slowed down. -- basketball supporters may have
:00:00. > :00:12.noticed he has slowed down. Sometimes a draw is the best you can
:00:13. > :00:17.hope for. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Is it
:00:18. > :00:21.now safe to say the economy is recovering and we can all stop
:00:22. > :00:27.holding our breath? Can George Osborne claim the credit? And will
:00:28. > :00:31.his opponents give him any? And as the capital pays homage to
:00:32. > :00:34.John Muir - the founding father of National Parks - farmers say they
:00:35. > :00:42.should be working areas and not theme parks for townies.
:00:43. > :00:46.Good evening. Britain's coming back was the message from the Chancellor
:00:47. > :00:49.today. For the first time since before the recession, just about
:00:50. > :00:52.every economic indicator is going in the right direction. Figures out
:00:53. > :00:56.today show GDP rising for the fifth quarter in a row - up 0.8% in the
:00:57. > :01:00.first quarter of this year. The economy is now growing at over three
:01:01. > :01:06.per cent a year - that's pre-crisis levels of growth.
:01:07. > :01:08.Labour say there is a cost of living crisis and that people aren't
:01:09. > :01:11.experiencing any recovery. Incomes are still below pre-recession
:01:12. > :01:14.levels, but after six long years, recent figures showed they now have
:01:15. > :01:17.caught up with inflation. The property market is also growing.
:01:18. > :01:21.Registers of Scotland said today prices are going up. More
:01:22. > :01:26.significantly, sales are now running at pre-crisis levels. As to who gets
:01:27. > :01:30.the credit for all this - well some argue George Osborne's policies have
:01:31. > :01:39.held up recovery. Others, that his opponents have been left clutching
:01:40. > :01:54.at straws. I joined by Cathy Jamieson, Malcolm
:01:55. > :01:56.Bruce and Marco Biagi. Does the Coalition Government
:01:57. > :02:03.deserve any credit for the fact that the economy now seems to be
:02:04. > :02:11.recovering at the strongest rate of most of the world economies? GDP has
:02:12. > :02:20.not hit the plenary session level yet. But it will later on this year.
:02:21. > :02:27.But if you look at the great depression, GDP reached the level a
:02:28. > :02:33.lot faster than less. Why has it taken such a long time to get to
:02:34. > :02:38.this level. And this is a level many people are still not feeling.
:02:39. > :02:53.Decisions taken in the early days of the Tory Government to cut back
:02:54. > :03:03.spending on capital areas - we were correct to criticise those. But you
:03:04. > :03:10.are arguing a counterfactual. It is difficult for you to show that you
:03:11. > :03:20.are correct. You cannot point to any evidence. I can point to the things
:03:21. > :03:29.that were said. If politicians say that the policies would result in
:03:30. > :03:35.GDP growth being stagnant for years, and GDP growth was stagnant,
:03:36. > :03:41.then credit is deserved. We are now moving into some kind of recovery,
:03:42. > :03:50.but who is feeling the benefit? So much of it is concentrated in London
:03:51. > :03:59.and the south-east. Malcolm Bruce, do you see this as surrogates? I do.
:04:00. > :04:08.This is not a Conservative Government. This is a quality
:04:09. > :04:15.Government. We wanted to get a stronger and theatre society. We
:04:16. > :04:19.were told it would be a double-dip recession. We are now growing
:04:20. > :04:27.stronger than any economy in the developed world. It was tough, it
:04:28. > :04:36.was difficult, but we have stuck with it and that is delivering
:04:37. > :04:43.results raped across-the-board. -- it is delivering results
:04:44. > :04:50.across-the-board. But people said it would take longer than it otherwise
:04:51. > :04:58.would. This idea of the economy and Britain are growing stronger than
:04:59. > :05:03.anywhere else is a red herring, because austerity was so much more
:05:04. > :05:12.severe, when you bounce back from hostility it will be faster. We had
:05:13. > :05:16.the biggest date of any of our major partners. The markets would not have
:05:17. > :05:29.allowed us not to tackle the deficit. We have raised the tax
:05:30. > :05:34.threshold. That has put ?800 into the pockets of the standard rate
:05:35. > :05:38.taxpayer. This is the basis for a strong and balanced recovery. I
:05:39. > :05:45.would suggest that our opponents should give us some credit. Will you
:05:46. > :05:53.give them any credit, Cathy Jamieson? It would be churlish not
:05:54. > :05:57.to accept that any amount of growth is to be welcomed. That ordinarily
:05:58. > :06:15.people across the UK are not feeling this recovery. Families are around
:06:16. > :06:26.?1600 per year worse off. We are not yet seeing the living wage. It is
:06:27. > :06:31.also a fragile recovery. All that economic commentators would say
:06:32. > :06:43.that. It is good that we are seeing a bit of improvement in the
:06:44. > :06:46.manufacturing sector. By definition, at the start of the
:06:47. > :07:00.recovery, we just will not have recovered to where they were. Do we
:07:01. > :07:09.do have any policies -- do the Labour Party have policies to
:07:10. > :07:17.increase wages? They could have looked at the living wage. We also
:07:18. > :07:22.have to tackle unemployment. These are the things that are important.
:07:23. > :07:27.Even if you don't implement the living wage policy that would not
:07:28. > :07:33.bring wages and salaries back to where they were before the
:07:34. > :07:38.recession. It is difficult to know what point you are trying to make.
:07:39. > :07:42.In our view that recovery could have come about at that cracker. It was
:07:43. > :07:47.chalked off right at the beginning. And also the recovery at the moment
:07:48. > :08:02.is not being felt by ordinarily people. 24 million people have had
:08:03. > :08:12.that tax cuts. The problem about the tax cut is things like the VAT rise
:08:13. > :08:21.completely took that away. Marco Biagi, what is your answer to the
:08:22. > :08:27.question? People are not feeling the benefits, he said. What are the SNP
:08:28. > :08:36.policies to make people as well off right now as they were before the
:08:37. > :08:41.recession? We have tried to make sure as much economic growth has
:08:42. > :08:44.happened in Scotland. We have been relatively successful and had youth
:08:45. > :08:49.unemployment a lot lower in Scotland and the rest of the UK for example.
:08:50. > :08:54.Our performance compared to most of England has been excellent. But
:08:55. > :08:59.looking ahead, the kinds of things Cathy talks about, the minimum wage,
:09:00. > :09:03.living wage, these are things which are beyond the current powers of the
:09:04. > :09:09.Scottish Parliament. The living wage, you could do that, with
:09:10. > :09:14.respect. The Scottish Government pays the living wage. I don't want
:09:15. > :09:19.to get diverted into the living wage. You criticise the Coalition
:09:20. > :09:25.Government by saying people aren't feeling the recovery. By definition,
:09:26. > :09:29.at the start of a recovery people aren't going to be as well of as
:09:30. > :09:34.before the recession happened. You keep going on about this but it is
:09:35. > :09:38.difficult to see what your point is. It implemented a living wage that's
:09:39. > :09:42.not going to make us all as well off as we were before the recession, so
:09:43. > :09:48.it's not an answer to the question I'm asking. This isn't the start of
:09:49. > :09:52.the recovery. It should have started five years ago. We are getting a
:09:53. > :09:55.very belated half-hearted last-minute recovery after so many
:09:56. > :10:03.years. The best way for people to feel better office to be... In what
:10:04. > :10:10.way is the fastest-growing economy half-hearted recovery? The USA is 7%
:10:11. > :10:15.higher than it was prerecession in GDP. Even if we continued the
:10:16. > :10:20.current level, we will still be three levels behind that. It's about
:10:21. > :10:27.how much you've actually got full the UK GDP is far behind it. That is
:10:28. > :10:33.the real point. It's not the economy is growing fast, that we are still
:10:34. > :10:37.not at prerecession levels and the USA is way ahead and the argument
:10:38. > :10:42.is, it's the policies of your government that delayed the kind of
:10:43. > :10:46.recovery in Britain that we have seen in the USA. It was the nature
:10:47. > :10:52.of the crash in the UK which was quite different in character to the
:10:53. > :10:56.USA particular fraud trading nation depending on exports. Our financial
:10:57. > :10:59.system dragged the economy down faster and it's taken us longer to
:11:00. > :11:02.get back on track but now we're seeing not just the service sector
:11:03. > :11:09.but manufacturing and construction growing. They have done for five
:11:10. > :11:14.consecutive quarters. We have lower unemployment, falling faster than
:11:15. > :11:21.anywhere else, except in Scotland. And we have seen a much stronger
:11:22. > :11:24.position in terms of inflation which is low. I think people should
:11:25. > :11:34.recognise that what we have now is the basis of a sustainable recovery.
:11:35. > :11:37.The Labour Party and SNP have started to abandon the discipline
:11:38. > :11:41.and create a situation with the market will force up interest-rate
:11:42. > :11:44.and they will build inflation back into the economy. That's why we need
:11:45. > :11:49.to maintain a clear, confident determination to ensure employment
:11:50. > :11:55.growth, inflation continues to be low and people can invest
:11:56. > :11:58.confidently. We don't need to break up the UK and create uncertainty in
:11:59. > :12:05.this picture. The problem Labour has is that you can keep going on about
:12:06. > :12:08.people aren't feeling the recovery and all the rest of it. It all
:12:09. > :12:13.sounds a bit lame when all the figures are going in one direction.
:12:14. > :12:17.By and large, people are accepting these have been tough times, they
:12:18. > :12:22.don't expect everything to be going swimmingly all of a sudden. And they
:12:23. > :12:25.are prepared to give the government some credit for what they have done
:12:26. > :12:30.and it just sounds like you're standing on the sidelines saying
:12:31. > :12:34.it's not as good as it used to be. Actually, what we're doing is
:12:35. > :12:38.reflecting what people right across the UK, ordinary people are feeling.
:12:39. > :12:46.They want to see the energy frozen, young people out of work in
:12:47. > :12:51.Scotland, youth unemployment, get back into work. They want to see
:12:52. > :12:55.things like infrastructure projects moving, the manufacturing sector
:12:56. > :13:00.take on more people, on decent wages, not zero hours contracts. We
:13:01. > :13:09.are reflecting that, it's not standing on the sidelines. Does the
:13:10. > :13:14.fact the economy is recovering, even though you give Malcolm Bruce and
:13:15. > :13:22.his government no credit for it, designated easier for you to argue
:13:23. > :13:27.for a yes case? Will people say Britain is turning around, why risk
:13:28. > :13:33.it? I think people had to ask themselves why it is that Scotland,
:13:34. > :13:37.in 2010 we voted overwhelmingly for the kind of approach to recovery
:13:38. > :13:42.that Labour and the SNP were putting forward, did we get the kind of
:13:43. > :13:46.policies which have delayed that recovery for four years since?
:13:47. > :13:51.Looking ahead, do we think there is a better chance for Scotland to be
:13:52. > :13:56.prosperous, to be fair, so everyone is feeling the effects of recovery
:13:57. > :14:00.under a government elected here in Scotland or a continuation of the
:14:01. > :14:03.politicians we have Westminster? Thank you all very much indeed.
:14:04. > :14:07.There have been a series of events across Scotland to mark the
:14:08. > :14:11.centenary of the death of John Muir, the Dunbar man often called the
:14:12. > :14:14.father of national parks. But at the same time there's growing resistance
:14:15. > :14:18.among farmers in Wales to the whole idea of national parks. They want
:14:19. > :14:21.them be stripped of all their planning powers. So should we
:14:22. > :14:33.celebrate Muir's legacy? Or ditch it? Huw Williams reports.
:14:34. > :14:40.This morning in Edinburgh, a plaque unveiled to John Muir in the
:14:41. > :14:45.capital's literary monument, the Mac is caught. The man who loves the
:14:46. > :14:49.woods, the mountains in the wild things have in him some indefinable
:14:50. > :14:55.quality which appealed even to those who care little outside of brick
:14:56. > :15:03.walls. John Muir the fine illustration of this rule. He is
:15:04. > :15:11.revered as the father of national parks.
:15:12. > :15:18.The man who preserve the wilderness of Yosemite, protecting it from
:15:19. > :15:27.destructive development. But his story and his love of nature started
:15:28. > :15:33.here in East Lothian. John Muir was a Scot from Dunbar who emigrated to
:15:34. > :15:36.America. Early in the 19th century. And became very interested in the
:15:37. > :15:43.American wilds, very concerned about what was happening in America, with
:15:44. > :15:47.a clearance of land, and persuaded the president of the USA, President
:15:48. > :15:52.Roosevelt, to set aside a beautiful places in America. Its legacy has
:15:53. > :16:03.been marked with a festival which lit up the kelpie 's. The opening of
:16:04. > :16:09.an extended John Muir Way and plans for a conference in Perth in the
:16:10. > :16:13.middle of May. But in Wales, there are signs of a backlash against
:16:14. > :16:18.national parks. With the farmers union of Wales voting to strip them
:16:19. > :16:23.of all their planning powers. There is an inconsistency in the way they
:16:24. > :16:30.operate. It is undemocratic and I don't think the park appreciates,
:16:31. > :16:34.because of its membership or of its officers, they don't seem to
:16:35. > :16:39.appreciate the history and traditions and culture of Wales and
:16:40. > :16:45.it tends to be more concerned with tourism and incomers than with the
:16:46. > :16:50.population and agriculture generally. The three Welsh national
:16:51. > :16:54.parks disagree. We undertook some research independently a few months
:16:55. > :17:00.ago which highlighted that national parks in Wales, it brought 500
:17:01. > :17:04.million to the Welsh economy. Some of the beneficiaries would be
:17:05. > :17:08.farmers who are diversifying into tourism. Therefore, obviously, to
:17:09. > :17:13.remove the work of national park authorities might have a detrimental
:17:14. > :17:17.impact on that. In Pembrokeshire, we manage the coastal path in
:17:18. > :17:22.partnership with landowners, farmers, we recognise the excellent
:17:23. > :17:27.work they do. They are imported to the future. The law to establish
:17:28. > :17:30.national parks is one of the first bills passed by the then new
:17:31. > :17:37.Scottish Parliament back in the year 2000. Unlike national parks in
:17:38. > :17:43.England and Wales, parks here have an explicit legal responsibility
:17:44. > :17:45.that they care for the sustainable economic development of the
:17:46. > :17:51.communities which means the people that live in the areas they manage.
:17:52. > :17:53.Eff there are not thriving businesses and communities in the
:17:54. > :17:59.area, the conservation jobs more difficult. So finding that balance
:18:00. > :18:03.where we can maximise the opportunities of national parks with
:18:04. > :18:09.the many visitors that come here and businesses benefiting from that, it
:18:10. > :18:13.helps us to look at how we can conserve the healthy economy,
:18:14. > :18:19.because landowners can look after the landscape. Why should be so
:18:20. > :18:23.different here than in Wales? I think, having the aim of social and
:18:24. > :18:25.economic developers of communities is fundamental
:18:26. > :18:35.economic developers of communities that perspective to be able to look
:18:36. > :18:39.means we get it right for the economy and the environment. You
:18:40. > :18:42.might expect Scotland's national parks to say that but it seems
:18:43. > :18:49.landowners and rural businesses agree. While parks in England and
:18:50. > :18:53.Wales has focused on preservation or conservation of the environment, in
:18:54. > :18:55.Scotland, we have also looked at promoting sustainable economic
:18:56. > :19:02.growth, development, and that's a major benefit for us. The other
:19:03. > :19:04.thing which has happened is a national park authorities have
:19:05. > :19:08.embraced the new modernised planning system far more than local
:19:09. > :19:09.authorities and