:00:10. > :00:15.Hauled in for questioning at Westminster, vilified in his own
:00:15. > :00:19.Australian backyard and now the FBI are involved too. Newsnight
:00:19. > :00:22.examines the danger to Rupert Murdoch's global interests. Both
:00:22. > :00:29.Rupert, James and Rebekah Brooks will appear before MPs next week to
:00:29. > :00:33.answer questions. But, tonight, Mr Murdoch is on the
:00:33. > :00:40.offensive, calling Gordon Brown completely wrong. And claiming News
:00:40. > :00:43.Corp has only made minor mistakes in its handling of the crisis.
:00:43. > :00:48.We're joined live from Washington by Barbara Boxer, one of the
:00:48. > :00:54.senators calling for a full scale inquiry into whether Murdoch's men
:00:54. > :00:58.and women broke US law. We have an exclusive interview with
:00:58. > :01:01.a Saudi billionare Prince, who is News Corp's second largest
:01:01. > :01:06.shareholder. We hope the truth will come out. It is very important for
:01:06. > :01:09.me and my company, investors in News Corp for 20 years to get this
:01:09. > :01:13.in order. And are the troubles at News
:01:13. > :01:18.International just going to accelerate the demise of newspapers
:01:18. > :01:21.in this country. Also tonight we are deep in the
:01:21. > :01:26.mountains of western Libya, as the rebels open another front to get
:01:26. > :01:31.rid of Gadaffi. They may look a bit sinister, but
:01:31. > :01:41.beneath the masks they are doctors, lawyers, teachers, it is as if the
:01:41. > :01:48.
:01:48. > :01:52.Rotary CluB went to war. Rupert Murdoch, the man who once
:01:52. > :01:59.leaders were desperate to curry favour, has bowed to desperate
:01:59. > :02:03.pressure to appear in front of MPs, along with his reluctant son, James,
:02:03. > :02:09.and Rebekah Brooks, about alleged phone hacking and bribes to
:02:09. > :02:14.policemen. The FBI are looking into whether or not News Corp hacked
:02:14. > :02:19.into the phones of victims of 9/11. Mr Rupert Murdoch just before we
:02:19. > :02:24.came on air, gave a robust defence to the newspapers.
:02:24. > :02:28.First of all, the committee, this morning, neither James nor Rupert
:02:28. > :02:38.were going to the committee? only person who was going to attend
:02:38. > :02:39.
:02:39. > :02:45.was the CEO of News International, Rebekah Brooks was Gogol, but not
:02:45. > :02:50.Rupert and James. They wanted to threaten with everything they had,
:02:50. > :02:53.but it wasn't clear what powers they had if they declined. The
:02:53. > :02:56.deputy Serjeant at Arms served a summons to the News International
:02:56. > :02:59.lawyers, received a receipt for that summons, in response to that,
:02:59. > :03:05.the Murdochs this afternoon, through a letter from James Murdoch,
:03:05. > :03:08.said they would, in fact, accept this summons to appear, but they
:03:08. > :03:11.wanted to be very mindful, or the committee to be mindful that there
:03:11. > :03:16.were other investigations going on, not least the one by the police,
:03:17. > :03:21.and they didn't want the committee to trample all over it, and would
:03:21. > :03:24.do their best to answer questions without that problem. Will they be
:03:24. > :03:27.flanked by lawyers on Tuesday? will see all three in a line
:03:27. > :03:31.together. They did want to do it one at a time. I was speaking to
:03:31. > :03:35.people on the committee, they didn't think they could get. That
:03:35. > :03:40.they are having them three at a time. One of the people on the
:03:40. > :03:44.committee has said they cancelled everything for the weekend, we will
:03:44. > :03:51.spend the weekend working out what questions they ask them with
:03:51. > :03:54.counsel. Rupert Murdoch, who has kept his silence, and has choosen
:03:54. > :03:58.the Wall Street Journal as the organ to speak to us all from?
:03:58. > :04:01.that newspaper it is a newspaper he owns, we can probably rely on them
:04:01. > :04:06.to have faithfully recorded the quotation they have got from him.
:04:07. > :04:10.In that we will get a preview of the line he will take with the
:04:10. > :04:14.commity. On whether News Corp got it wrong, they said they handled it
:04:14. > :04:19.extremely well in every possible way, making minor mistakes. On the
:04:19. > :04:23.question whether his son, James Murdoch, has handled it well, he
:04:23. > :04:27.has handled it well and the BSkyB bid well. A lot of rubbish spoken
:04:27. > :04:32.in parliament, that is why he's looking forward to going to the
:04:32. > :04:35.committee to put it straight. was a rather large swipe at Gordon
:04:35. > :04:39.Brown in the Wall Street Journal? There was, Gordon Brown yesterday
:04:39. > :04:42.made a big rumbling roaring speech in the House of Commons were he
:04:42. > :04:46.accused every other politician under the sun, it seemed, of
:04:46. > :04:49.getting very, very close to Rupert Murdoch, except for him and he
:04:49. > :04:52.stood alone against the Murdoch empire. Today we got that from
:04:52. > :04:57.Rupert Murdoch, he got it entirely wrong, the Browns were always
:04:57. > :05:01.friends of our's until the Sun withdrew its support. One last
:05:01. > :05:04.thing, speculation Mr Murdoch says about the sale of his newspaper
:05:04. > :05:07.assets in order to extricate himself from, that there is a lot
:05:07. > :05:11.of speculation about that happening, Mr Murdoch says it is pure and
:05:11. > :05:15.total rubbish, give it the strongest possible denial you can
:05:16. > :05:19.give. Also another development today, it seems a further
:05:19. > :05:24.entanglement between the Met and former News of the World
:05:24. > :05:31.executives? Every day we learn t seems b more of this interaction
:05:31. > :05:36.between journalists, particular - to be more of this interaction
:05:36. > :05:42.between journalists and the police. Lisence lives the deputy editor of
:05:42. > :05:46.News of the World, 2003,-2009, under Jason Cowley. It turns out
:05:46. > :05:55.when he left News International, without stain on his character, he
:05:55. > :05:58.didn't have to resign. He went to work for the police. The Mayor of
:05:58. > :06:02.London is absolutely livid e wasn't told anything about this. When he
:06:02. > :06:06.found out this gentleman was working for the Metropolitan Police,
:06:07. > :06:09.in 2009, just after the time when they reassessed the evidence on
:06:09. > :06:14.News International, whether there was evidence, the mayor was livid,
:06:14. > :06:18.the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police was at Hendon
:06:19. > :06:24.Police Academy, handing out medal, the mayor rang him up and said get
:06:24. > :06:29.back here and talk to me. They had an hour-and-a-half in his office A
:06:29. > :06:32.letter has gone from the home of the commissioner to the
:06:32. > :06:35.Metropolitan Police asking what went on and why nobody was told
:06:35. > :06:40.about this. Let's talk more about now about the interview with Mr
:06:40. > :06:45.Murdoch in the Wall Street Journal, and his attack on Gordon Brown. I'm
:06:45. > :06:51.joined by the Times candidate, and Tory peer, who used to edit the
:06:51. > :06:55.Wall Street Journal, and the editor of the New Statesman, Jason Cowley.
:06:55. > :06:59.First of all, David Aaronovitch, clearly he is trying to minimise it
:06:59. > :07:03.in the Wall Street Journal. There are two message, one a public
:07:03. > :07:08.message, and a very big message of reassurance, back to people who
:07:08. > :07:13.work for what is always now called the Murdoch empire. Do you feel
:07:13. > :07:18.reassured? I do feel reassured. I wasn't looking forward to the Times
:07:18. > :07:24.being sold to a Big Society collective of cross word enthusiast,
:07:24. > :07:27.or people whom imagine to take over newspapers if Murdoch went away.
:07:27. > :07:32.He's in no position to make reassurances? I think he can try,
:07:32. > :07:35.but it is very difficult. Murdoch mur loves his newspaper, I think he
:07:35. > :07:39.would do - Rupert Murdoch loves his newspapers, I think he would do all
:07:39. > :07:43.he could to remain the owner of them. There may be other
:07:43. > :07:46.shareholders News Corp who may not have the same devotion to them.
:07:46. > :07:50.When he writes or communicates to the Wall Street Journal, that he's
:07:50. > :07:55.only made minor mistakes in the handling of this, and that is
:07:55. > :08:01.preceded by James Murdoch saying he regreted deeply the payout to one
:08:01. > :08:05.of the hacking victims of something like �750,000, the professional
:08:05. > :08:09.Football Association, Gordon Taylor, that doesn't show a minor mistake,
:08:09. > :08:12.does it? I think a lot of people will feel this was not a minor
:08:12. > :08:17.mistake. There is little to be gained at this stage by trying to
:08:17. > :08:23.play it down. If that's what his advisers are telling him. I would
:08:23. > :08:30.take issue with that. Two things we know about Murdoch, we never second
:08:30. > :08:35.guess what le do, closing news nuefs a stunning event. - closing
:08:35. > :08:43.News of the World was a stunning event. I thought he didn't believe
:08:43. > :08:49.in the her red try principle, but he does when it comes to his own -
:08:49. > :08:54.hereditary principle, but he does when it comes to his son. Yet,
:08:54. > :08:59.according to the Times this morning, James Murdoch didn't know they
:08:59. > :09:02.would drop the BSkyB all together? Which shows about his whole lack of
:09:03. > :09:08.judgment during the whole proceedings. He might not protect
:09:08. > :09:14.James Murdoch together, he might be the ruthless father, eventually?
:09:14. > :09:19.the News Corp shareholders will move against Rupert and force his
:09:19. > :09:24.hand in a way he wouldn't want. thought a strange section in that
:09:24. > :09:27.piece is choosing the Wall Street Journal to have an take on Gordon
:09:27. > :09:30.Brown? The Wall Street Journal thing is the first opportunity to
:09:30. > :09:36.give himself a chance to speak out at all. The whole Gordon Brown and
:09:36. > :09:40.Rupert Murdoch thing is becoming one of the most bizarre high-level
:09:40. > :09:45.soap operas we have available. We can track it back through Sarah
:09:45. > :09:48.Brown, and Rebekah Brooks's call about the cystic fibrosis. You have
:09:48. > :09:52.to say it is fabulously entertaining. What it means is
:09:52. > :09:56.another matter. It is more than fabulously entertaining, it is a
:09:56. > :10:01.deeply serious problem? I'm not sure it is a deeply serious problem
:10:01. > :10:04.so much as showing our former Prime Minister in a very unflattering
:10:04. > :10:08.light. I don't really blame Rupert Murdoch for trying to put that side
:10:08. > :10:11.of things in perspective. Nick Clegg this morning said, and I have
:10:11. > :10:19.no reason to disbelieve him that he had it on the best of authority
:10:19. > :10:22.that the first person to call Andy Coulson and commiserate with him on
:10:22. > :10:31.losing his job as editor of the News of the World was one Gordon
:10:31. > :10:37.Brown. It is bitterness on Brown's part. That explosion in the House
:10:37. > :10:41.was like Lear emerging from the storm raging. He wasn't in control
:10:41. > :10:46.of the facts. There is tremendous bitterness and anger. It is true
:10:46. > :10:56.Brown and Murdoch were close. Murdoch admired Brown's knowledge
:10:56. > :10:56.
:10:56. > :11:01.of economics and economic history, Brown was a free marketeers, he's
:11:01. > :11:05.an Atlantices. Labour worked hard to court the Murdoch empire, brown
:11:05. > :11:09.can't start throwing out allegations in a wild and
:11:09. > :11:13.incoherent way. Brown seemed to admire Rupert Murdoch when he was
:11:13. > :11:16.publishing the Sun and the News of the World. He had the support of
:11:16. > :11:21.them. Just before the general election I travelled with Brown, we
:11:21. > :11:23.went to Newcastle a couple of days from the vote. I had to pass a
:11:23. > :11:27.message from someone close to Rupert Murdoch about what happened
:11:27. > :11:30.in the negotiations when the Sun moved against Gordon Brown, it came
:11:30. > :11:34.out against him on the morning of his speech. I mentioned the name of
:11:34. > :11:38.the person who was giving it, and Brown's face turned to stone and he
:11:38. > :11:44.hung his head in shame. You are staying to speak about the future
:11:44. > :11:48.of newspapers later on. The trouble with global empires is when one
:11:48. > :11:52.part snoozes, the other parts catch a cold. There is shivering in
:11:52. > :11:55.America and Australia now. In the US where Rupert Murdoch has huge
:11:55. > :11:58.holdings, Democrat senators have been calling for an investigation
:11:58. > :12:00.into whether News Corp broke the law by phone hacking or bribing
:12:00. > :12:04.officials. Tonight the FBI announced they were looking into
:12:04. > :12:09.the issue of whether the phones of the victims of 9/11 were hacked N a
:12:09. > :12:13.moment we will be joined live from Washington by one of those senators,
:12:13. > :12:19.Barbara Boxer. First this report. Rupert Murdoch's troubles may have
:12:19. > :12:23.broken out in the British corner of his empire, but the contagion is
:12:23. > :12:27.spreading fast, to affect his business worldwide. In his homeland,
:12:27. > :12:31.Australia, where he owns almost 150 titles, his company is checking
:12:31. > :12:34.that all editorial payments in the last three years have been
:12:34. > :12:38.legitimate. Politicians are now worried. Like, I think, most
:12:38. > :12:42.Australians, I have been pretty shocked and disgusted to see the
:12:42. > :12:46.revelations we have seen in the UK. After seeing some of the things
:12:46. > :12:49.that have been done to intrude on people's privacy. But more
:12:49. > :12:54.seriously the contagion spread to Murdoch's adopted home, the United
:12:54. > :13:00.States. Where he's now a naturalised citizen. His holdings
:13:00. > :13:07.include the New York Post and Wall Street Journal, the publishers
:13:08. > :13:11.Harper Collins, most of the skal nap Geographic Channel, most of
:13:11. > :13:18.20th century Fox, and the news channel, which has enabled Murdoch
:13:18. > :13:21.to play the same role in America as he has played in Britain. He is a
:13:21. > :13:25.conservative media outlet and sides with Republicans in Congress
:13:25. > :13:29.routinely and against the Democrats. There is a lot of liberal anger at
:13:30. > :13:33.Mr Murdoch over the years. I also think there have been liberal
:13:33. > :13:39.politician, Democrats who have been more loathe to criticise Mr Murdoch
:13:39. > :13:44.in the past, or Fox, for fear of having some of the reprecussions I
:13:44. > :13:49.know we have seen in the British politics. British politics don't
:13:49. > :13:53.want to be targets of the the news. Fox's show this week didn't discuss
:13:53. > :13:57.the troubles. This video of the panelists chatting through the ad
:13:57. > :14:00.break, shows them daring one another to do so. Anyone want to
:14:00. > :14:04.bring up the subject we are not talking about today for the
:14:04. > :14:09.streamers, I'm not going to touch it. In Congress concern is now
:14:09. > :14:12.growing. Especially since the suggestion, still unsubstantiated,
:14:12. > :14:17.that News of the World may have been involved in hacking the phones
:14:18. > :14:21.of 9/11 victims. Several senators have now called for investigations
:14:21. > :14:24.by the Department of Justice and the securities and exchanges
:14:24. > :14:29.commission, into the hacking allegations, and into the
:14:29. > :14:33.possibility that if Murdoch papers in Britain, paid police for stories,
:14:33. > :14:37.that may have breached the US foreign corrupt practices act,
:14:37. > :14:40.which bans US companies from paying bribes to foreign officials. Last
:14:40. > :14:44.week when the story broke, this became sort of an interesting story
:14:44. > :14:47.to Americans, we found it some what titilating and fascinating as a
:14:47. > :14:51.story, I don't think it necessarily was penetrating the consciousness
:14:51. > :14:56.of the greater American public. This week, on the other hand, I
:14:56. > :14:58.think we're starting to see greater American interest in the story, as
:14:58. > :15:03.the possibility that it could affect Americans and not just
:15:03. > :15:06.people in Britain has come out. Tonight FBI sources confirmed
:15:06. > :15:12.unofficially that the agency will look into claims of possible
:15:12. > :15:18.hacking in the US. But as political concern spreads, Wall Street is
:15:18. > :15:22.also becoming increase league worried about Rupert Murdoch. News
:15:22. > :15:26.Corp's share priest - increasingly worried about Rupert Murdoch. News
:15:26. > :15:36.Corp's share price has dropped. It is fight lawing suit by one group
:15:36. > :15:52.
:15:52. > :15:56.Some believe the corporation may pull out of the newspaper business.
:15:56. > :16:01.Many doubt that James Murdoch will ever succeed his father as its head.
:16:01. > :16:06.I think investors in America are needing to know that there is a
:16:06. > :16:10.capable leader, and there is some question now about whether James
:16:10. > :16:16.Murdoch is that capable leader to actually run the enterprise. The
:16:16. > :16:20.other thing the shareholders need is reassurance the advertisers
:16:20. > :16:24.won't flee the newspaper titles. In the worst case scenario, should you
:16:24. > :16:29.get the fleeing of advertisers here, that you have here for News of the
:16:29. > :16:37.World, the only other option then is to actually kill those brands in
:16:37. > :16:42.the way that News of the World was yuet niceed. Very likely there will
:16:42. > :16:46.be at some point, I'm not saying this will be in the near term, an
:16:47. > :16:51.entire new management at News Corp, which is a fine company. It has
:16:52. > :16:56.great assets and a terrific future, but the Murdoch influence, despite
:16:56. > :16:59.their basically de facto control ownership, is going to be
:16:59. > :17:03.diminished. Last year Rupert Murdoch was master of a business
:17:03. > :17:13.empire, commanding global revenues of about �20 billion, now he's
:17:13. > :17:14.
:17:14. > :17:20.unable to turn the tide of allegations against his corporation.
:17:20. > :17:26.Senator Barbara Boxer joins us now from Washington? Also we must
:17:26. > :17:29.remember you are a former journalist with Pacific Sun. Let's
:17:29. > :17:33.begin now with our understanding that the FBI is looking into the
:17:33. > :17:38.possibility that the victims of 9/11 were hacked. Is this the
:17:38. > :17:41.investigation you wanted? It is absolutely part of it. I teemed up
:17:41. > :17:45.with Senior Jay Rockefeller, chairman of the commerce committee,
:17:45. > :17:50.I'm a senior member of that committee, we have jurisdiction
:17:50. > :17:54.over the broadcasters, folks, the media as a whole. We wrote to the
:17:54. > :17:59.security and exchange commission and we wrote to the Department of
:17:59. > :18:03.Justice, the FBI is part of the Department of Justice, asking them
:18:03. > :18:09.to look specifically into the possibility that two American laws
:18:09. > :18:14.were broken. One, the foreign practices Corruption Act, and
:18:14. > :18:18.secondly, the called wiretap act. Any American corporation has to
:18:18. > :18:25.comply with these laws. Rupert Murdoch decided he wanted to become
:18:25. > :18:30.an American citizen, I don't blame him. America is the greatest place
:18:30. > :18:34.of the world, I say to you. The fact of the matter is he became an
:18:34. > :18:39.American citizen, his corporation is American. He needs to obey
:18:39. > :18:43.American law. The stories coming out of your country about bribing
:18:43. > :18:48.police official, on its face, that is not allowed under the foreign
:18:48. > :18:53.corrupt practices act. The fact that he may have hacked into
:18:53. > :18:58.victims of, the familiar lose of the victims of 9/11, that is not a-
:18:58. > :19:02.families of the victims of 9/11, that is not aed load. I'm right in
:19:02. > :19:10.saying there is no evidence of hacking of victims of 9/11, it is
:19:10. > :19:14.just allegations at this stage? Absolutely. Let's look at the
:19:14. > :19:20.hackings of phones here and also the bribing of officers here. Under
:19:20. > :19:25.that act that you talked about, that would mean that foreign
:19:25. > :19:35.Corruption Act, would mean that he could then be divests of his
:19:35. > :19:42.
:19:42. > :19:50.newspapers, be prosecuted in America? He cannot, as an American,
:19:50. > :19:54.Or a citizen of anywhere, bribe other people. This past, and Jimmy
:19:54. > :20:02.Carter signed this into law, and we began to see a higher level of
:20:02. > :20:05.morality in our corporations. It is very important. Right away, any
:20:05. > :20:09.type of bribery of officials, or any other people trying to get
:20:10. > :20:14.information, that is just not allowed. So it would be breaking
:20:14. > :20:18.that law. In the Wall Street Journal, the new edition of the
:20:18. > :20:21.Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdoch has spoken to the Wall Street
:20:21. > :20:25.Journal and said, as far as he's concerned the conduct of the
:20:25. > :20:29.investigation into News Corp's activities, he has only made minor
:20:29. > :20:33.errors in that. What do you make of it, given that this morning neither
:20:33. > :20:38.he nor his son were prepared to appear in front of a committee of
:20:38. > :20:45.MPs, but at the end of the day they were put in a position where they
:20:45. > :20:50.absolutely have to? To say it is minor problems. You can correct me
:20:50. > :20:54.if I'm wrong, more than 4,000 people in Britain were hacked in to.
:20:54. > :21:02.Minor problems in the way they have conducted themselves in the inquiry
:21:02. > :21:07.so far? I thought he was saying there was minor problems with what
:21:07. > :21:13.he did. I can't comment on the way he has responded. Although the
:21:13. > :21:17.initial reports were that he wasn't going toself testify, now he's
:21:17. > :21:22.changed his - to testify, now he's changed his mind, that is a good
:21:22. > :21:26.thing. But what he did is not minor. Do you think it might be possible
:21:26. > :21:30.that you would request that he appears in front of a Senate
:21:30. > :21:33.Committee? He has always appeared before the Congress committee on
:21:33. > :21:39.other matters it's an American corporation and citizen, depending
:21:39. > :21:43.on how this goes, I have spoken to Chairman Rockefeller, and it is
:21:43. > :21:50.possible we could call him, we are not ready to do that at this time.
:21:50. > :21:53.But the FBI is focused and on this. I have to say, it is hard for me to
:21:53. > :21:57.understand how anybody could sanction, anybody could sanction
:21:57. > :22:02.doing some of the things they reportedly did. When you look at
:22:02. > :22:09.that little girl's murder, in your country, and what is reported to
:22:09. > :22:14.have happened there, the possible hacking over here. The possible
:22:14. > :22:20.hacking of phones of families who lost soldiers in Afghanistan and
:22:20. > :22:24.Iraq, British families. It takes my breath away. Senator, if they are
:22:24. > :22:27.found guilty, if the executives are found guilty of involvement in any
:22:27. > :22:31.of these things. What would be sanctions that could be put upon
:22:31. > :22:36.them on your side of the Atlantic? Well, right now there are many
:22:36. > :22:40.things, I told you, there are two laws here, that come into play.
:22:40. > :22:45.There is, this is a public corporation, they sell shares, if
:22:45. > :22:50.they hid payments, you know, bribery payments, from shareholders,
:22:50. > :22:57.that is a whole other civil penalty. Then f they hacked in to phones,
:22:57. > :23:02.without a warrant, obviously, they don't have a warrant, that's
:23:02. > :23:10.criminal. The corrupt practices act could be civil or criminal. So lots
:23:10. > :23:16.could happen, the FCC has the ability to take away a license from
:23:16. > :23:20.the media corporation kpro that break the law. It is too soon to
:23:21. > :23:26.way what, why and how. There is one criticism, that actually it would
:23:26. > :23:30.suit the Democrats greatry if for example the Fox channels were
:23:30. > :23:34.emasculated before the election in 2012, and that this has become
:23:34. > :23:40.quite a partisan issue for you? my goodness, if you break the law,
:23:40. > :23:44.in our country, whether you are a Republican, or a Democrat, or a
:23:44. > :23:46.liberal or Conservative or moderate, you break the law, you pay the
:23:46. > :23:55.price. That is as simple as it gets. It
:23:55. > :24:01.has nothing to do with your political persuasion.
:24:01. > :24:05.News Corp sharehold ertsers have had to watch as - shareholders have
:24:05. > :24:13.had to watch as their shares have dropped. It might get worse
:24:13. > :24:15.depending on the outcome of the myriad of inquiries. Ofcom may make
:24:15. > :24:21.the company divulge itself of the existing shares they have now. If
:24:21. > :24:25.the Murdochs are on the back foot what about the other shareholders.
:24:25. > :24:31.We have an exclusive interview with the Prince who owns 7% of News Corp.
:24:31. > :24:35.If you want to see the superrich at play, then Cannes, on a beautiful
:24:36. > :24:40.summer afternoon is where you need to be. Even by the standards of the
:24:40. > :24:49.wealth that you find here, on the French Riviera, the man I'm about
:24:49. > :24:57.to meet is wealthy, his name is Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal Alsaud.
:24:57. > :25:07.The Prince is known as the Arab Warren Buffet,'s a nephew of the
:25:07. > :25:09.
:25:09. > :25:15.Saudi king, but the vast majority of his wealth, he says, is self-
:25:15. > :25:20.made. Owns the second-biggest stake in News Corp, the company that owns
:25:20. > :25:25.Rupert Murdoch's entire, global media empire. We're on our way to
:25:25. > :25:33.the Prince's yacht, which featured in a James Bond film. Before
:25:33. > :25:38.meeting the man himself, it is worth putting His Royal Highness
:25:38. > :25:43.and sharehold nears perspective. This Prince owns 7%, he's a
:25:43. > :25:48.powerful voice in the company. The Prince is far, far richer than
:25:48. > :25:54.Rupert Murdoch. He's ort �20 billion, Rupert Murdoch, by
:25:54. > :26:04.contrast, is worth a relatively modest �7.5 billion.
:26:04. > :26:06.
:26:06. > :26:09.I met the Prince on an upper deck of his yacht. We hope as think
:26:09. > :26:14.thing unfolds the truth will come out. It is very important for me
:26:14. > :26:20.and my company, investors in News Corporation, for 20 years, to get
:26:20. > :26:23.this in order. Ethics to me are very important. There are some
:26:23. > :26:26.terribly unethical things taking place at News Corporation. All four
:26:26. > :26:30.things, hacking into the telephone of a murdered teenager, hacking
:26:30. > :26:34.into the telephone of relatives of British soldiers who have died in
:26:34. > :26:38.action. These are awful things? would like to correct you, the
:26:38. > :26:41.problems have been at the News of the World and not News Corp level.
:26:41. > :26:47.I would like to differentiate between News Corp conglomerate and
:26:47. > :26:50.the News of the World, that was shut down. Unfortunately the
:26:50. > :26:54.tactics used by the tabloid newspapers in the UK were done not
:26:54. > :26:58.only by News of the World, but other newspapers and tabloid
:26:58. > :27:03.newspapers also. James Murdoch is in an uncomfortable position,
:27:03. > :27:06.either you knew what was going on, and didn't tell the British
:27:06. > :27:12.authorities, so he's liable to a criminal prosecution, or he didn't
:27:12. > :27:16.know, which means as a manager he wasn't in control of his own
:27:16. > :27:21.organisation. On either way he doesn't look good? We have to wait
:27:21. > :27:26.for the commission and wait for the result, why predict and pre-empt
:27:26. > :27:32.what will come out of it. The facts will come out and soon hopefully.
:27:32. > :27:37.One of the dangers for you as a major organisation is how the
:27:38. > :27:41.contagion has spread. There are calls in the US for a Senate, there
:27:41. > :27:49.is criticism of Murdoch and his organisation across the world. This
:27:49. > :27:52.is a serious problem for you as an investor? I hope the matter doesn't
:27:52. > :27:58.get overpoliticised. Because clearly some politicians in the UK
:27:58. > :28:04.and others places would like to set the record clear and take revenge
:28:04. > :28:08.from Mr Murdoch's conglomerate. I think this thing should not be
:28:08. > :28:13.overpolitic yoised, we should give the commission - overpoliticised,
:28:13. > :28:19.we should give the commission an opportunity. According toly we will
:28:19. > :28:23.see how the thing went up. accordingly we will see how things
:28:23. > :28:28.went up. What have you been saying to Rupert Murdoch about what is
:28:28. > :28:34.happening? I say to Rupert and James Murdoch, who are my friend
:28:34. > :28:43.and allies, and my company in Saudi Arabia. I said they have to co-
:28:43. > :28:47.operate fully, and they will co- operate fully with the group sorted
:28:47. > :28:52.by the Prime Minister. Speaking from my dealings with them there is
:28:52. > :28:57.nothing but high ethics in the past 0 years. BSkyB was a key part of
:28:57. > :29:00.the strategy for growth of News Corp? It was a key strategy, but at
:29:00. > :29:05.the end of the day, you have to understand that News Corp is a
:29:05. > :29:10.profitable company, even without the 61% of BSkyB. BSkyB has been
:29:10. > :29:14.shelved, but it is not dead forever. You think News Corp might come back
:29:14. > :29:18.and make a bid again for BSkyB? don't talk on behalf of management,
:29:18. > :29:24.that is Mr James and Rupert Murdoch, but today they have withdrawn, and
:29:24. > :29:27.based on the UK, the minimum period to come back is six months. We will
:29:27. > :29:30.have to see what happens after six months. There is a lot of
:29:30. > :29:36.controversy around one key manager at News International, Rebekah
:29:36. > :29:41.Brooks, should she stay? indications are for her involvement
:29:41. > :29:48.in this matter, for sure she has to go. Ethics for me is very important.
:29:48. > :29:54.Definitely. I will not accept the tirade to de rail the company -
:29:54. > :30:04.derail the company that has lady or man with a shriller of doubt on her
:30:04. > :30:04.
:30:04. > :30:09.part. James Murdoch f he had known and didn't do anything about it,
:30:09. > :30:13.would you say to Rupert, your son has to go too? From my dealings
:30:13. > :30:23.with James Murdoch, it is impossible for them to know what is
:30:23. > :30:28.going Onyango the News of the World level.
:30:28. > :30:36.I'm with my panel now. Just picking up the very endpoint there. Huge
:30:36. > :30:40.defence by the second-biggest shareholder of James Murdoch, and a
:30:40. > :30:44.lukewarm defence of Rebekah Brooks. He's right to say it depend ones
:30:44. > :30:47.what the investigation throws up. At the helm of any organisation you
:30:47. > :30:52.can't have someone who is found to have done wrong, but at the moment
:30:52. > :30:55.it is not proven. Very keen on ethics he says as well.
:30:55. > :30:59.What he was also saying, interestingly, which won't be music
:30:59. > :31:03.to your ears. That he didn't seem to worry they are divesting
:31:03. > :31:11.themselves from the newspapers and leave broading and on-line, and the
:31:11. > :31:15.way was open to make a new bid for BSkyB. Newspapers were in a fair
:31:15. > :31:19.bit of trouble way before any of this became news. There will be a
:31:19. > :31:22.temporary blip for people like the Sunday Mirror and the People, with
:31:22. > :31:27.the News of the World not being there. We have been fiercely
:31:27. > :31:30.competitive and working out how to deal with the new world of first,
:31:30. > :31:36.24 hours news, and then the Internet, trying to make it work
:31:36. > :31:40.for us financially. How do you go about that personally, when you're
:31:40. > :31:44.writing a column do you put outside all social media and hope they will
:31:44. > :31:48.read the paper? Fpbgts you use every mechanism you can to put
:31:48. > :31:52.yourself out there. Of course you do, not just yourself but your
:31:52. > :32:00.colleagues too. I'm fiercely proud of the newspaper I work for and the
:32:00. > :32:04.work it does. It is a hugely professional organisation. And yet,
:32:04. > :32:10.like the Guardian, which relaunched six years ago, has had the benefit
:32:10. > :32:13.of some stunning scoops and great journalism. Yet has seen its
:32:13. > :32:19.circulation continuing to decline, like so many newspapers have done
:32:19. > :32:23.for the last 40 years. You can see why a Saudi Prince taking a world
:32:23. > :32:28.view might say, we like the broadcasting bits, but newspapers
:32:28. > :32:32.not so good. Newspapers are good things to have. I would be very
:32:32. > :32:37.reluctant to see them disappear. shouldn't lose sight of the fact
:32:37. > :32:41.that the Times and other papers do fantastic journalism, and serve a
:32:41. > :32:47.very important purpose? That might be the case, but are people
:32:47. > :32:51.prepared to pay for them. I think we can be too alarmist about the
:32:51. > :32:54.future of newspapers in this country. There are some
:32:54. > :33:00.extraordinary successful organisations, the Mail is selling
:33:00. > :33:05.making a profit, backed by this extraordinary web operation, now
:33:05. > :33:09.celebrity fixated, but successful. And taking market share in the
:33:09. > :33:15.states. The telegraph group have gone back into profitability,
:33:15. > :33:24.containing cost, extra strong linked journalism, and they are
:33:24. > :33:29.moving towards a meted pay wall. Are people under 25 going to pay
:33:30. > :33:39.for a metered pay wall? That is the challenge, how do you get young
:33:40. > :33:41.
:33:41. > :33:47.people to pay for couldn't tent. - content. Simply for newspaper, I'm
:33:47. > :33:51.more optimistic about magazines and the whole thing about long form and
:33:51. > :33:55.magazine craft, magazine photography You will pay for
:33:55. > :33:59.quality. What model for seven days? In seven days you can take out a
:33:59. > :34:03.lot of cost. That will have to happen. It has already happened
:34:03. > :34:06.with the Observer and the Guardian, it is happening with the Telegraph
:34:06. > :34:09.group, it is bound to happen with the Times and Sunday Times, they
:34:09. > :34:14.have already said they will look at that. The big problem for
:34:14. > :34:17.newspapers a lot of people have been prepared to pay, but only for
:34:17. > :34:20.salacious gossip. That is one of the reasons where we are in this
:34:20. > :34:23.mess now. Will daily newspapers survive, what is the model, do you
:34:23. > :34:28.think? I think they will have to change, because one result of this,
:34:28. > :34:32.one way or another, is that salacious gossip on the scale it
:34:32. > :34:36.has been printed is not going to be there any more. Do you think you
:34:36. > :34:42.might go to a position where you have an on-line paper from Monday
:34:42. > :34:46.to Friday, and a fabulous ten supplements at the weekend. What we
:34:46. > :34:50.are discovering from the on-line content, who people like about it
:34:50. > :34:57.is it looks like a newspaper. They want to he will foo the newspaper
:34:57. > :35:01.is involved in it. Your pay wall is the wrong one, the Financial Times,
:35:01. > :35:05.it is not just salacious gossip, it is paper that will work. Some
:35:05. > :35:11.people will pay for quality, but numbers are small, compared with
:35:11. > :35:16.the numbers who are prepared to buy the News of the World. We are being
:35:16. > :35:20.parochial, India is a huge growing newspaper plarbgt. That is exactly
:35:20. > :35:23.where Rupert Murdoch - market. That is exactly where Rupert Murdoch can
:35:23. > :35:28.go now. NATO's campaign in Libya is
:35:28. > :35:30.approaching the four-month mark, with little sign of Gaddafi's
:35:30. > :35:34.regime close to collapse. International pressure is growing
:35:34. > :35:37.on the rebels for negotiations to begin with the Government, perhaps
:35:37. > :35:41.even with members of the Gaddafi family. How much time do the rebels
:35:41. > :35:47.have, is there still a chance they can overhe throw the colonel. We
:35:47. > :35:53.report from the rebel held mountains in the west of Libya.
:35:53. > :35:58.The Tripoli brigade. "we are lions" they chant. These are the men the
:35:58. > :36:06.rebels say will strike the final blow against Colonel Gaddafi,
:36:06. > :36:09.liberating the capital. Most are from Tripoli, they fled at
:36:09. > :36:13.the start of the uprising. Their commanders are telling them it
:36:13. > :36:22.could only be matter of weeks before they return. Their families
:36:22. > :36:27.are still there, so they hide their faces. They may look a bit sinister.
:36:27. > :36:37.But beneath the masks they are doctors, lawyers, teachers. It is
:36:37. > :36:45.
:36:45. > :36:51.as if the rotary club went to war. They are fighting for high ideals,
:36:51. > :36:58.these don't seem the kind of men to accept a grubby compromise with the
:36:58. > :37:05.regime. The rebels' hopes of marching on the capital lie here,
:37:05. > :37:13.in the mountains. Across the plain below, Tripoli is a mere 60 miles
:37:13. > :37:18.away. Just months ago, rebel held towns in the mountains were under
:37:18. > :37:23.siege. Battered by the loyalists' heavy artillery.
:37:23. > :37:29.But the rebels brokeout, and just a couple of big towns now stand
:37:29. > :37:33.between them and the road to Tripoli.
:37:33. > :37:36.But this isn't a regular army, it often seems like quite a sleepy
:37:36. > :37:41.little war. There is a lot of sitting around
:37:41. > :37:45.inbetween the fighting, and in that the Libyan war is no different from
:37:45. > :37:49.any other. The rebels do seem to have some forward momentum, in this
:37:49. > :37:55.part of the frontline, at least. But they are short of everything.
:37:55. > :37:59.Food, fuel, weapons, ammunition and money. That means they are not
:37:59. > :38:03.moving as fast as they would like, or NATO. The Americans are running
:38:03. > :38:12.out of patience, the British are running out of place, and the
:38:12. > :38:17.French want to open negotiations with elements of the regime.
:38:17. > :38:22.For ordinary fighters, though, the focus is on the next battle. If
:38:22. > :38:28.Raul goes to plan, this will be in the small - if all goes to plan,
:38:28. > :38:34.this will be in the small town nearby. The rebels summoned the
:38:34. > :38:38.tribal leader there, they told him he had 48 hours to evacuate
:38:38. > :38:44.citizens before they take fire. The rebels are confident and believe
:38:44. > :38:49.things are going their way. So at the first sound of gunfire they
:38:49. > :38:58.complacently assure us it is just their own men having a bit of a
:38:58. > :39:07.market practice. It was Government loyalists mount ago surprise attack.
:39:07. > :39:17.It is a nasty shock for the inexperienced troops. They spot
:39:17. > :39:19.
:39:19. > :39:25.vehicles toward them, they realise they are being surrounded. With
:39:25. > :39:31.frightening rapidity, the rebel frontline collapses. Slow, slow.
:39:32. > :39:41.I'm getting tout get some shots. Tim, stay in. We run. So does
:39:42. > :39:43.
:39:43. > :39:49.everyone else. They halt a few miles down the road.
:39:49. > :39:58.There is an argument over whether or not to go back to fight. He says
:39:58. > :40:01.they have only one case of bullets, what can they do with that.
:40:01. > :40:09.Other towns have plenty of ammunition, but keep it for
:40:09. > :40:16.themselves. A sign of some disunity beneath the ref - revolutionary
:40:16. > :40:20.slogans. That evening, though, the rebels
:40:21. > :40:25.counter-attack. Hundreds of men are pushed up, by the end of the day
:40:25. > :40:33.they had won back all the ground they had lost in the morning.
:40:33. > :40:38.Finally they were outside the town of Assaba, once again.
:40:38. > :40:45.The Gaddafi forces are using civilians as human shields this man
:40:45. > :40:49.who is a rebel field commander says. They warned citizen they should
:40:49. > :40:53.leave because the rebels would attack, we will still take the town
:40:53. > :40:57.in 48 hours. In getting this far, the rebels had shown fighting
:40:57. > :41:04.spirit, that more than the skill may determine the outcome of this
:41:04. > :41:12.conflict. But the regime's loyalists had fought hard too.
:41:13. > :41:19.Looking at the battlefield, Colonel Gaddafi might think he can hang on.
:41:19. > :41:24.So it time to talk to the regime. A plane carrying rebel ministers from
:41:24. > :41:31.Benghazi, lands on a mountain road, converted into an air strip.
:41:31. > :41:38.Gaddafi and his family have to leave unconditionally. I don't know
:41:38. > :41:47.if any view officially in the cabinet that I represent, that look
:41:47. > :41:53.into all that believe we are ready to negotiate. The key issue is we
:41:53. > :41:57.need the military situation to change. The reason that everyone is
:41:57. > :42:01.running for and clamouring for a political solution, is so far on
:42:01. > :42:10.the military side they haven't done as well. Unless we do that, the
:42:10. > :42:13.rest of the world, obviously, needs to find a solution to this conflict.
:42:13. > :42:17.You are the Finance Minister, but everything is short here as well,
:42:17. > :42:21.as you know, there is one Kalashnikov between four men, there
:42:21. > :42:26.is no fuel not enough food or ammunition. How do you address
:42:26. > :42:30.this? One of the issues that our friend, everywhere, they haven't
:42:30. > :42:35.really, they are always to the level that they should be. They
:42:35. > :42:40.committed themselves to let us use some of our money. We are not
:42:40. > :42:47.asking anyone to give us money, this is our friingen money and I'm
:42:47. > :42:50.tired of saying that. The rebels haven't met all the international
:42:50. > :42:54.community's expectations either. There were reports of looting in
:42:54. > :43:04.the last place they captured. The rebels move in and Government
:43:04. > :43:06.
:43:06. > :43:16.supporters flee, terrified. They leave behind ghost towns.
:43:16. > :43:43.
:43:43. > :43:49.Human Rights Watch spoke to former The rebels would still like us to
:43:49. > :43:54.think of them as they think of themselves, the good guys.
:43:54. > :43:58.These are the men of Al-Zawahiri, their uprising was crushed by
:43:58. > :44:02.Colonel Gaddafi's tanks, so they took to the hills. We have pressure
:44:02. > :44:08.on our families, they are searching our homes nearly every day. All of
:44:08. > :44:12.us we don't have military. I'm an engineer, I'm a senior engineer,
:44:13. > :44:21.but now I'm holding guns and I'm fighting. Even if this war takes
:44:21. > :44:27.long-term, we are not going back, you know. There is no retreat.
:44:27. > :44:37.fighters seem in no doubt of their eventual victory. Their few tanks
:44:37. > :44:41.will roll into Tripoli soon, they say. But Colonel Gaddafi has
:44:41. > :44:49.reportedly sent his best army unit, to stop these rebels. They are
:44:49. > :44:52.apparently in the last big town on the way to the capital. The
:44:52. > :44:56.colonel's fate and that of the Libyan revolution, could be decided
:44:56. > :45:06.here in the mountains. That report there.
:45:06. > :45:06.
:45:06. > :46:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 60 seconds
:46:07. > :46:11.Tomorrow morning's front pages now. That's all for Newsnight tonight,
:46:11. > :46:21.if you want more advise the website to read all about it and watch -
:46:21. > :46:43.
:46:43. > :46:47.visit the website to read all about A much brighter day on Friday,
:46:47. > :46:51.across East Anglia and Kent, sunshine here. Further west, well
:46:51. > :46:55.the opposite is true, after some sunshine on Thursday it is a much
:46:55. > :46:59.gloomier prospect on Friday, outbreaks of rain creeping in. Some
:46:59. > :47:03.of the rain may arrive to the west of the Pennines. In north-east
:47:03. > :47:08.England places looking fine with sunshine. Warmer, brighter day
:47:08. > :47:12.across East Anglia, temperatures into 25 in London. Across the south
:47:12. > :47:16.west, after a bright start, we will see the cloud thickening up.
:47:16. > :47:19.Eventually outbreaks of rain will trickle their way into Devon and
:47:19. > :47:23.Cornwall, the wet weather arriving into the west of Wales. Eastern
:47:23. > :47:26.Wales, we will not see the rain until late in the day. After a
:47:26. > :47:31.bright day on through, it is all change for Northern Ireland too. A
:47:31. > :47:35.glum day. The rain not too heavy, but light rain and drizzle for most
:47:35. > :47:40.of the day. The rain heading into western Scotland. Which parts of
:47:40. > :47:44.the east coast will stay dry and bright. Into the weekend it turns
:47:44. > :47:54.cooler, wetter and windier, heavy showers expected on Saturday,
:47:54. > :47:58.
:47:58. > :48:01.across the north of the UK. Any sun A raft of showers on Saturday a