:00:13. > :00:16.Sell, sell, sell, markets in freefall across the world. Huge
:00:16. > :00:19.sell-offs tonight, in New York and earlier in London, and across the
:00:19. > :00:23.continent. With the economies of Europe and the US on a knife-edge,
:00:23. > :00:28.is there now a real danger of a second global slump. That is more
:00:28. > :00:31.of the concern on the markets. How are we going to be able to avoid
:00:31. > :00:36.the recession from taking place. Two men who control tens of
:00:36. > :00:42.billions of pounds, and an eminent economist will tell us just how bad
:00:42. > :00:45.this really is. Also tonight, torture, rape and
:00:45. > :00:50.deliberate starvation, an exclusive undercover investigation by
:00:50. > :00:54.Newsnight reveals evidence of the Ethiopian Government using millions
:00:54. > :00:58.of international aid to punish their political opponents. We also
:00:58. > :01:05.investigate allegations of human rights abuse.
:01:05. > :01:07.They were beating me while I was being raped. I was bleeding. I
:01:07. > :01:14.became unconscious when I saw my unborn baby.
:01:14. > :01:19.I will be speaking to a senior Ethiopian diplomat. And is the
:01:19. > :01:22.death penalty back on the agenda, as a cascade of e-petitions pings
:01:22. > :01:30.into the Government's index, will the politicians really take any
:01:31. > :01:35.notice. Just when we hoped it might get a little better, it got worse.
:01:35. > :01:40.In fact, if the markets are to be believed, the west could even be
:01:40. > :01:45.hurtling towards a second recession. There was carnage on trading room
:01:45. > :01:48.floors around the world, as the markets went into freefall over
:01:48. > :01:52.fears the eurozone debt crisis could spread. The Dow Jones plunged
:01:52. > :01:56.by over 500 points tonight, in the biggest sell-off since the credit
:01:56. > :02:00.crunch brought the global economy to its knees three years ago. In
:02:00. > :02:04.the UK the picture wasn't much better, with the banks taking the
:02:04. > :02:12.biggest hit. Lloyd's came off worst, losing 10% of its value in a single
:02:12. > :02:17.day. (sound of knives being sharpened)
:02:17. > :02:21.It wasn't supposed to be this hard on the markets, and it definitely
:02:21. > :02:24.wasn't supposed to be the worst fall in London since the depths of
:02:24. > :02:28.the recession. Could we be going back there. Behind the sudden
:02:28. > :02:37.collapse was a fear that the world economy is on a knife-edge between
:02:37. > :02:43.recovery and another global slump. In London, the FTSE was down 191
:02:43. > :02:50.points, a drop of 3.4%, wiping �50 billion from the value of the top
:02:50. > :02:56.companies. In Germany the DAX was sharply down. The Dow Jones tumbled
:02:56. > :03:00.519 points, 4.3%, its worst one day performance since 2008. What is
:03:00. > :03:03.particularly worrying about today's sell-off, is it came despite
:03:03. > :03:07.attempts, costing billions of pounds by Brussels and Washington,
:03:07. > :03:12.to try to convince the financial world, that actually overindetected
:03:12. > :03:15.countries were sorting themselves out. And nagging doubt about that
:03:15. > :03:20.on the markets, today turned into a full blown loss of confidence.
:03:20. > :03:24.Sometimes there is nothing more disconcerting than reassurance.
:03:24. > :03:27.have a credible package. Only two weeks ago the President of the
:03:27. > :03:32.European Union was trumpetting a deal that was meant to contain the
:03:32. > :03:34.crisis in the eurozone, at least for the summer. Today he was
:03:34. > :03:40.warning that he was deeply concerned that the sovereign debt
:03:40. > :03:43.crisis would spread beyond Europe. International investors are now so
:03:43. > :03:48.worried about lending money to Spain, they are demanding interest
:03:48. > :03:52.rates to buy its bonds, at more than 6%. To lend to Italy and buy
:03:52. > :03:57.its bond, they want interest rates or yields of a similar amount. Some
:03:57. > :03:59.bond dealers say when rates get above 6%, a country's debts become
:03:59. > :04:05.unmanagable. The European Central Bank was put under massive pressure
:04:05. > :04:09.to step in and start buying up the bond that is no-one else wants.
:04:10. > :04:13.Today its president said it was buying bonds, but not the crucial
:04:13. > :04:17.Italian and Spanish ones. The key for everything is Government ahead
:04:18. > :04:23.of the curve, in both their fiscal policy, and their structural
:04:23. > :04:29.reforms, and structural reforms are absolutely of the essence. I know
:04:29. > :04:33.that they are here and there difficult, they might be
:04:33. > :04:37.politically difficult in our democracies. They are paying off.
:04:37. > :04:43.But the focus of traders' fears about the real economy has been
:04:43. > :04:48.shifting from debt to growth. The US is now clearly slowing down.
:04:48. > :04:52.Consumer spending virtually ground it halt, growing by 0.1%, compared
:04:52. > :04:56.with 2.1% growth in the first quarter. The economy grew at an
:04:56. > :05:03.annual rate of 1.3% in the second quarter. Economists had forecast
:05:03. > :05:06.growth of 1.8%. I think growth is the element of uncertainty that hit
:05:06. > :05:10.the markets more recently. Up until now we have had the political
:05:10. > :05:13.concerns, both in Europe and in the US. But the expectation was that we
:05:13. > :05:18.are going through a relatively soft period in economic growth, and we
:05:18. > :05:22.will be starting to see an uptake in the second half of the year.
:05:22. > :05:26.More recently we have seen a disappointment in terms of economic
:05:26. > :05:30.numbers. And if there is economic disappointment persisting, we could
:05:30. > :05:33.be heading in a global second-dip recession, that will have adverse
:05:34. > :05:38.impact. Now economists are starting to ask, once again, if it is the
:05:38. > :05:44.right time to be imposing austerity, when the global economy looks so
:05:44. > :05:48.weak. Economic austerity is not unlike personal austerity n a sense
:05:48. > :05:51.it is far easier to do when you are feeling strong, rather than weak.
:05:51. > :05:55.Austerity is all about cutting back on your outgoings, but, if you
:05:55. > :05:59.don't have the economic growth, you don't have the income. Then you
:05:59. > :06:04.won't have the tax receipts from all that economic activity, to try
:06:04. > :06:08.to improve your financial position. In fact, it could even get worse.
:06:08. > :06:13.If we are going to get better growth, the west needs the spending
:06:13. > :06:21.power of the east. I think looking at the eurozone in the developed
:06:21. > :06:28.world and more generally, there is clearly a lot of head winds from
:06:28. > :06:31.highly indebted consumers seeing their wages fall, and growth cut.
:06:31. > :06:35.The Governments also cutting back on the spending. But growth going
:06:35. > :06:39.forward will be selling to increasingly wealthy consumers in
:06:39. > :06:43.the emerging markets. There is a second knife-edge here, sorting out
:06:43. > :06:47.Government finances now, may turn out to be at odds with getting the
:06:47. > :06:52.global economy going again. Governments have to cut spending,
:06:52. > :06:56.or raise tax, in order to prevent them losing their credit rating,
:06:56. > :07:01.and having sovereign debt crisis. On the other hand f they cut too
:07:01. > :07:04.much, or too soon, then they will suck demand out of their economies,
:07:04. > :07:09.and possibly turning a slowdown into a slump.
:07:09. > :07:13.So if we are to avoid a global recession, political leaders still
:07:13. > :07:17.have to convince the markets their debt reduction plans are credible.
:07:17. > :07:20.In one of the worst days in Wall Street's history, the markets
:07:20. > :07:25.demonstrated just how little confidence they have about that.
:07:25. > :07:30.With me now are two men who between them control tens of billions of
:07:30. > :07:40.pounds across the global markets. From New York I'm joined by Peter
:07:40. > :07:40.
:07:40. > :07:44.Schiff, CEO, and joining me here is Paul Griffiths.
:07:44. > :07:48.First of all, Paul Griffiths, how concerned are you about what
:07:48. > :07:52.happened today? We are very concerned. In terms of not only the
:07:52. > :07:58.market reaction, but really the way out here. At the moment we are,
:07:58. > :08:08.frankly, we are on a knife-edge. A little too hot, and a little too
:08:08. > :08:12.
:08:12. > :08:17.cold and we could easily see a double dip. You predicted the
:08:17. > :08:21.credit crunch last time round, how critical was today's drop in the
:08:21. > :08:26.US? Pretty predictable. A lot of people who control money around the
:08:26. > :08:31.world, were making bad bets on an economic recovery. But all the
:08:31. > :08:35.stimulus and bailouts in the United States, didn't create a recovery,
:08:35. > :08:39.it created debt advanced recovery. That exacerbated the fundamental
:08:39. > :08:43.problems with the economy. The US is headed for a more severe
:08:43. > :08:46.recession than the one we think we emerged from. I think we are in a
:08:46. > :08:53.depression, the depression is interrupted by Government stimulus
:08:53. > :09:02.that only sows the seeds for the next downturn. The markets are only
:09:02. > :09:05.starting to - to come to grips with this. The stimulus is weakening the
:09:05. > :09:09.underlying economy. We need higher interest rates and the Government
:09:09. > :09:13.cutting back on spending. None of that will happen because the
:09:13. > :09:18.politicians don't want the voters to taste that medicine, that is the
:09:18. > :09:22.only way to cure this economy. Looking at the eurozone, was
:09:22. > :09:25.Barroso right to issue such a strong warning? I think he was, I
:09:25. > :09:28.don't control billions of dollars like the other two, I'm trying to
:09:28. > :09:32.make sense of what is happening. There is a collision of two factors
:09:32. > :09:36.going on here, on the one hand, as you just heard, you have the world
:09:37. > :09:40.waking up to the fact that there is a process of so-called deleveraging
:09:40. > :09:43.going on. That the economies and companies and banks still need to
:09:43. > :09:48.cut debts, so do households, that process will be brutal and slow.
:09:49. > :09:52.Anyone who was looking for a quick recovery was basically in cloud-
:09:52. > :09:55.cuckoo-land. Secondly, that realisation of colliding with the
:09:55. > :10:00.fact that the problems in the eurozone, in particular, have not
:10:00. > :10:04.been solved, and the question of whether the eurozone can hang
:10:04. > :10:08.together or not, is absolutely at the forefront of investors' minds
:10:08. > :10:13.at the moment. That is a nasty cocktail, particularly in August,
:10:13. > :10:16.when markets are slow, and trading is suffering from the curse of
:10:16. > :10:21.August when prices tend to shoot all over the place. One of the
:10:21. > :10:24.ironies is, if, if, Europe could operate in a cohesive fashion, it
:10:24. > :10:29.is probably in a stronger position than the US. Frankly, we don't see
:10:29. > :10:34.very much chance of that. Why, structurally you don't think the
:10:34. > :10:39.euro was set up to handle a crisis like this? It wasn't. Structurally
:10:39. > :10:43.the euro is a collection, as we know, of nation states, and clearly
:10:43. > :10:49.with monetary on the one hand, but no fiscal or political union on the
:10:49. > :10:53.other, this sort of cry sifs in the mix at some - crisis was in the mix
:10:53. > :10:59.at some point. Looking at the crisis today, Italy and Spain, we
:10:59. > :11:09.have the second time coming back from holiday in Spain. What will
:11:09. > :11:10.
:11:10. > :11:14.happen there? It feels like the banking crisis of 2007/208900 -
:11:14. > :11:19.2008, where the markets are swinging from one way to the next.
:11:19. > :11:25.Investors have woken up to the fact that they can't assume all the
:11:25. > :11:29.countries will get bailed out continuously. There will be
:11:29. > :11:33.restructuring. Now they have crossed the psychological rub con,
:11:33. > :11:36.they can't actually tell who is next. If people are looking at
:11:36. > :11:40.Italy and Spain saying help, how do we know they are different from
:11:41. > :11:45.Greece. Is this about confidence as much as anything else? It is, but,
:11:45. > :11:47.of course, so far we are only talking about the west, we are only
:11:47. > :11:52.talking about developed market economies, investors have another
:11:52. > :11:56.choice, they can invest elsewhere, emerging markets, Latin America,
:11:56. > :12:00.Asia, there are opportunities. there safe havens for investors?
:12:00. > :12:03.You want to invest with the creditor, in the nation that is are
:12:03. > :12:07.producing all the goods the west is consuming. They are the ones that
:12:07. > :12:11.have viable economies. They don't need us. In fact, having to
:12:11. > :12:16.subsidise the American consumer is actually undermining the Chinese
:12:16. > :12:19.economy and other emerging markets. To the extent they allow their
:12:19. > :12:23.currency to appreciate, they can consume their own production, and
:12:23. > :12:27.leave the rest of the world to twist in the wind. That will happen.
:12:27. > :12:32.I agree the problems in Europe are bad, they are more severe in the
:12:32. > :12:36.United States. The twisting in the wind has big consequences? If you
:12:36. > :12:41.advise all Uruguays to invest in emerging markets? We do, we
:12:41. > :12:47.recognise there is opportunity, clearly whether you are looking at
:12:47. > :12:52.QE-2 or 3. Quantitative easing? printing of money, sorry, that
:12:52. > :12:57.liquidity of money where is it going, to overseas and emerging
:12:57. > :13:02.markets. Is that sustainable? I think to my mind, one of the
:13:02. > :13:06.signs to which investors are panicked, it those not putting
:13:06. > :13:10.money into emerging markets are scrambling for anything they think
:13:10. > :13:15.as safe. Not only are you seeing gold and the yen going up. One of
:13:15. > :13:18.the fascinating things on the front of the second section tomorrow, is
:13:19. > :13:22.the bank of New York is paying negative interest rates to
:13:22. > :13:27.depositors, people who want to put their money with that bank now
:13:27. > :13:31.because they think it is safe, they will have to pay a fee. There is a
:13:31. > :13:35.scramble to put cash where they think it is safe. They think it is
:13:35. > :13:41.safe because it is too big to fail. That is the problem. You have moral
:13:41. > :13:44.has standards with banks that are structurally unsound. If the Fed
:13:44. > :13:47.does the right thing, every bank bailed out will fail. That is one
:13:48. > :13:51.of the problems. That is why our Central Bank is keeping interest
:13:51. > :13:54.rates so low. It is propping up the financial sector and the US
:13:54. > :13:58.Government. If you think Greece has a problem paying its debts, imagine
:13:58. > :14:03.what will happen to the US Government when our interest rates
:14:03. > :14:07.spike up. That is another credit crunch? I would say right now you
:14:07. > :14:10.have again, things turning negative. This is unchartered territory, it
:14:10. > :14:14.is a sign of just how many dislocations there still are in the
:14:14. > :14:17.system that need to be worked out. They have to get growth, we have to
:14:17. > :14:21.get out in order to get out of it, where will it come from? In the
:14:21. > :14:26.west, that's a very challenging question. Frankly, you can have a
:14:26. > :14:30.bit of, add a little bit to the mix in terms of some policy stimulus,
:14:30. > :14:38.maybe reduce taxation, but it is very unclear where growth is coming
:14:38. > :14:42.from in the west. Can you force investment? We could get to the
:14:42. > :14:45.point where, whether it be in economies which are receiving too
:14:45. > :14:49.much influence, put on some form of capital controls, or in the west we
:14:49. > :14:54.start to see capital controls to see money flowing out, I don't see
:14:54. > :14:57.that as a crazy scenario. We are not going to have growth in the
:14:57. > :15:01.United States at all, we will have inflation, but not genuine growth,
:15:01. > :15:04.that comes from the market. That comes from private entrepeneurs,
:15:04. > :15:08.from business investment, but we can't do that, the Government in
:15:08. > :15:13.the United States is undermining our economy with regulations and
:15:13. > :15:17.taxation and barrowing, - borrowing that is stifleing economic growth,
:15:17. > :15:20.and sucking all the capital out of the private sector and spending it.
:15:20. > :15:27.You are absolutely right. And mentioned the key word, inflation,
:15:27. > :15:34.in the western economies we are living with, whether the US, the UK
:15:34. > :15:40.or significant chungs of Europe we have overly - chunkss of Europe
:15:40. > :15:47.have overly inflated inflation. I think it is tough and a lot of
:15:47. > :15:52.people are looking to emerging markets for global demand. Although
:15:52. > :15:56.the economies are slowing down and sluggish, they haven't fallen off
:15:56. > :15:59.the cliff yet. With the markets gyrating wildly in the thin trading
:15:59. > :16:02.of August, the fact of the matter is the economies right now are
:16:03. > :16:07.bumping along the bottom, they are not off the cliff. Certainly it
:16:07. > :16:13.will be tough going forward. don't need more demand, we need
:16:13. > :16:16.more sue ply, we need to - supply, we need to make more stuff. In the
:16:16. > :16:20.east they are making more stuff, they don't have to export what they
:16:20. > :16:24.give to us, what is missing in the west is real production, we need
:16:24. > :16:27.more manufacturing, we need to make some stuff, we can't do that, so we
:16:27. > :16:31.rely on the Asian economy to supply us with all the merchandise we
:16:31. > :16:34.don't produce ourselves. We have to borrow the money to do it. The
:16:34. > :16:37.countries financing us are having problems because they have to
:16:37. > :16:40.create so much inflation in their own countries to prop up the dollar.
:16:40. > :16:45.Just before we finish. Bringing it back to Europe. What does the
:16:45. > :16:50.eurozone have to do, as Gillian says, will it be one crisis in one
:16:50. > :16:54.country one day or one the next? have moved on from, that the
:16:54. > :16:58.contamination effect we have talked about for so many months is with us,
:16:58. > :17:02.we need to see a coherent European solution. Frankly, though, I don't
:17:02. > :17:08.think it will happen any time soon. Are you as pessimistic? The problem
:17:08. > :17:13.is the politics. The problem is the politics, absolutely. The solution.
:17:13. > :17:17.One thing very clear from 2008 is sticky plaster solutions don't work.
:17:17. > :17:21.They tried it with the banks it failed, and with the eurozone t
:17:21. > :17:26.failed. Europe will have to choose, either it pulls together in a union
:17:26. > :17:30.and finds a common solution, or some element of the eurozone will
:17:30. > :17:34.break apart. The best solution for Europe and the euro is to let the
:17:34. > :17:38.countries that can't pay their bills default, let them restructure,
:17:38. > :17:42.there shouldn't be a bailouts, this shouldn't sacrifice the euro, they
:17:42. > :17:47.should force the people who recklessly loaned money to
:17:47. > :17:50.Governments to lose money. That will not happen, politically there
:17:50. > :17:55.is a long way to go. That is the problem. That is the problem, they
:17:55. > :18:00.will create a moral has standard which ultimately will doom the euro,
:18:00. > :18:04.before the euro dies, the dollar will die first, our problems are
:18:04. > :18:07.more acute, Europe's problems are for tomorrow, America's are for
:18:07. > :18:11.today. International attention is focused
:18:11. > :18:15.on the crisis in the Horn of Africa in an emergency appeal to save
:18:15. > :18:20.millions from starvation, apart from this country, countries like
:18:20. > :18:23.Ethiopia are given hundreds to pull them out of - hundreds of millions
:18:23. > :18:29.to pull them out of poverty. We look at allegation that is this
:18:29. > :18:33.money is being misused, that the Ethiopian Government suesing it as
:18:33. > :18:43.a weapon against the opposition, married with systematic torture and
:18:43. > :18:47.
:18:47. > :18:56.rape, to cow the population. The Horn of Africa, a humanitarian
:18:56. > :19:00.crisis on an unprecedented scale. Every day thousands of refugees are
:19:00. > :19:03.fleeing to northern Kenya from Somalia and Ethiopia. Walking miles
:19:03. > :19:13.to escape drought and familiar anyone, children, the old and sick,
:19:13. > :19:16.are dying. It is images like these that have
:19:16. > :19:21.prompted the international community to pour millions in
:19:21. > :19:27.emergency aid into the region. But this in itself is a drop in the
:19:27. > :19:34.ocean. Separately every year up to $3 billion in long-term development
:19:34. > :19:36.aid is given to Ethiopia alone. In this special report, by Newsnight
:19:36. > :19:41.and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, we expose evidence that
:19:41. > :19:47.the west has turned a blind eye to systematic human rights abuses in
:19:47. > :19:52.had Ethiopia. I have given up on the west. I do
:19:52. > :19:58.not believe that the west is interested in democracy and the
:19:58. > :20:03.rule of law and human rights. In the third world.
:20:03. > :20:07.We reveal evidence of how aid is being used as a weapon of
:20:07. > :20:11.oppression. Propping up the Government of Meles Zenawi.
:20:11. > :20:19.Development is only available to those people who support the regime,
:20:19. > :20:24.or who vote for the ruling party. The rebels began pushing in through
:20:24. > :20:30.the suburbs at 4.00am this morning. Meles Zenawi came to power after
:20:30. > :20:37.ousting the military regime in 1991. The priority will be to ensure law
:20:37. > :20:46.and order. But the crunch came in the elections of 2005. A brutal
:20:46. > :20:51.crackdown. 193 civilians died, tens of thousands were detained. He
:20:51. > :21:01.remained a friend of the west. And allegations of human rights abuses
:21:01. > :21:03.
:21:03. > :21:06.continued to this day. In 2007, the Ethiopian army launched a counter
:21:06. > :21:09.insurgency campaign. Human Rights Watch and the American Association
:21:09. > :21:16.for the Advancement of Science, produced before and after satellite
:21:16. > :21:19.images of villages razez to the ground. Allegations that Ethiopian
:21:19. > :21:28.troops were forcibly displacing entire rural communities,
:21:28. > :21:32.destroying dozens of villages. The media and most aid agencies are
:21:32. > :21:36.banned from the region. We decided to find out what is happening now
:21:36. > :21:46.by talking to those who have recently fled to the refugee camps
:21:46. > :21:46.
:21:46. > :21:52.of northern Kenya. This is the largest refugee camp in
:21:52. > :21:59.the world. More than 400,000 people live here. It is a sprawling
:21:59. > :22:05.refugee city. The vast majority are from Somalia. Thousands are
:22:05. > :22:14.arriving on a daily basis, escaping the drought and familiar anyone.
:22:14. > :22:18.Ethiopians are coming here too. Civilians are caught up in the
:22:18. > :22:24.fighting between the rebels and the military. We have been told that
:22:24. > :22:28.the number of eat Ethiopian refugees is increasing over the
:22:28. > :22:31.last few weeks. We have tracked some down and are hoping to meet
:22:31. > :22:36.them here. This grandmother of four arrived
:22:36. > :22:42.just three weeks ago. She was arrested along with 100 others. She
:22:42. > :22:45.says soldiers killed her son in front of her.
:22:45. > :22:53.TRANSLATION: Whenever there is fighting between the two, they go
:22:53. > :22:58.to the nearest town and take their revenge on civilians. They would
:22:58. > :23:03.kill or arrest everybody. She was jailed for one-and-a-half years.
:23:03. > :23:08.The women kept in a container, picked out on a nightly basis to be
:23:08. > :23:15.tortured. TRANSLATION: They raped me in a room. One of them was
:23:15. > :23:20.standing on my head, and one tied my hands. They were taking turns. I
:23:20. > :23:25.fainted during this. After that they threw me into the container. I
:23:25. > :23:35.can't say how many, but there were many soldiers. I can't estimate the
:23:35. > :23:36.
:23:36. > :23:39.number. A mother with a young child. Again stories of rape, and torture.
:23:39. > :23:45.TRANSLATION: There were more than 50 women in prison with me, we all
:23:45. > :23:49.experienced the same sorts of things. I gave up on life, I
:23:49. > :23:55.thought they were going to kill me. You don't worry about rape when you
:23:55. > :24:02.have no hope. This woman says she was arrested and accused of being a
:24:02. > :24:05.supporter of the rebel militia, the National Liberation Front, declared
:24:05. > :24:15.a terrorist group by the Ethiopian Government. She shows us the marks
:24:15. > :24:22.and scars of torture. Stab wounds from a bay I don't know net. - a
:24:22. > :24:26.Bayonette. TRANSLATION: They used to beat me, whatever they liked.
:24:26. > :24:35.Then they started raping me. They were beating me while I was being
:24:35. > :24:40.raped. I was bleeding. I became unconscious when I saw my unborn
:24:40. > :24:47.baby. And you were eight months pregnant at this time? TRANSLATION:
:24:47. > :24:54.Yes. A man stamped on my stomach, you can imagine what happened to
:24:54. > :25:03.the child. Very big kicks. Blows with the butt of a gun. As a
:25:03. > :25:08.consequence of that, the child died. Independent sources have told us
:25:09. > :25:13.similar stories of widespread human rights abuses. There is no way that
:25:13. > :25:23.we can verify these stories, and the press can't operate freely in
:25:23. > :25:25.
:25:25. > :25:30.Ethiopia, we are going to try to go in undercover.
:25:30. > :25:35.Away from the drought and familiar anyone, the rains have come to
:25:35. > :25:41.Addis Abada. It is difficult to operate here, it is a virtual one-
:25:41. > :25:48.party state, and dissent is not tolerated. We arranged clandsetine
:25:48. > :25:53.meetings with key contacts. Ethiopia receives approximately $3
:25:53. > :26:02.billion in long-term development aid. The UK is the second-largest
:26:02. > :26:06.donor, after the US. This year our budget tops �290 million. The
:26:06. > :26:12.Ethiopian Government controls much of the distribution. Almost all of
:26:12. > :26:17.this aid goes through the Government channels. They have the
:26:17. > :26:22.Government administrators have the last say on who gets and who does
:26:22. > :26:28.not. The motivation is buying support, that's how they recruit
:26:28. > :26:35.support. Holding the population hostage.
:26:35. > :26:42.We travelled to the southern region. It is surprisingly illusion here,
:26:42. > :26:48.but this is deceptive. Lush here, but it is deceptive. The rains have
:26:48. > :26:53.come late and the crops haven't matured. The wife of this village
:26:53. > :26:57.elder died a few days a the reason, he says, chronic hunger.
:26:57. > :27:01.TRANSLATION: Five old people and five children died because of the
:27:01. > :27:11.familiar anyone recently. There are many children begging in the towns
:27:11. > :27:19.and on the sides of the roads. They are struggling to survive. This
:27:19. > :27:27.woman is a widow. She has seven children. The older ones have gone
:27:27. > :27:30.to town to beg, and scavange scraps from bins.
:27:30. > :27:36.TRANSLATION: This year there has been no help, no intervention from
:27:36. > :27:41.the Government. What are your fears for your children, for their
:27:41. > :27:48.future? TRANSLATION: Got knows, if they survive they might find their
:27:48. > :27:53.way, or die of poverty. What can I TRANSLATION: I give my children
:27:53. > :27:59.water, boiled with the leaves from coffee trees, and a sort of grass
:27:59. > :28:05.that is meant for the animals, that is how they are surviving.
:28:05. > :28:10.Another village 30kms away, it is a similar story. We spoke to the
:28:10. > :28:18.villagers, some had not eaten for four days. They told us they have
:28:18. > :28:21.had no help from the Government. In 2005, the people of these villages
:28:21. > :28:26.voted overwhelmingly for the opposition. And according to our
:28:26. > :28:31.sources, they are still being punished now.
:28:31. > :28:36.We travelled 100kms north to meet with others, farmers who say they
:28:36. > :28:40.too have been targeted because of their political beliefs. It was too
:28:40. > :28:47.dangerous to meet in their own village, they walked two hours
:28:47. > :28:52.across country, to meet at a safe location. TRANSLATION: Because we
:28:52. > :28:57.are in the opposition, we are not able to survive in our country. Our
:28:57. > :29:01.integrity, our conscience, does not allow us to join the ruling party,
:29:01. > :29:08.for these reasons we suffer greatly, we suffer if we want to get
:29:08. > :29:16.fertiliser, I think there are spies here. Is that him? Is it safe?
:29:16. > :29:20.is not safe. This is not safe? We can divert. We have had to cut
:29:20. > :29:23.the interviews here short, we have basically been told that we have
:29:23. > :29:28.attracted too much attention, and it is no longer safe to continue
:29:28. > :29:33.here. But these people here, these farmers have told us how they have
:29:33. > :29:37.been denied fertiliser, seed, they have had their land grabbed from
:29:37. > :29:41.them, such is the situation that their own wives are leaving them,
:29:41. > :29:44.they have been completely ostracised from their own
:29:44. > :29:48.communities, just because of their political beliefs and the grip the
:29:48. > :29:51.regime has on the community here. Opposition leaders say they have
:29:51. > :29:57.personally brought evidence like this to the attention of the
:29:57. > :30:05.international community time and time again.
:30:05. > :30:08.The position is dismissive. They always want to dismiss it as an
:30:08. > :30:18.isolated incident, when we present them with proof, and we challenge
:30:18. > :30:20.
:30:20. > :30:27.them to go down and check it out for themselves, they don't do it.
:30:28. > :30:33.A traditional funeral further north. This is Ethiopia's largest and most
:30:33. > :30:38.populist region. In the last few months more than 200 political
:30:38. > :30:43.activists have been detained in a series of mass arrests. Many
:30:43. > :30:47.detained without charge. Accused of being members of the Oromo
:30:47. > :30:55.liberation front, an armed seperatist organisation, again,
:30:55. > :30:58.declared a terrorist group by the Ethiopian Government.
:30:58. > :31:01.Professor Merera Gudina is a seasoned national opposition
:31:01. > :31:05.politician, with his roots firmly in the region. He says the
:31:05. > :31:10.Government is rounding up members of his and other parties, accusing
:31:10. > :31:14.them of being terrorists. Hundreds of them are now in prison, our
:31:14. > :31:17.members. The Government knows our members, but they say they are
:31:17. > :31:21.members of the other party, the outlawed party. You are saying
:31:21. > :31:24.these are innocent people that have been jailed? We know they are our
:31:24. > :31:27.members they have been in parliament, some of them, some of
:31:27. > :31:31.them in the pal parliament, some of them were in the regional
:31:32. > :31:40.parliament. Some of them were our candidates last time, during the
:31:40. > :31:47.elections. What happens to them in jail? Some of them are severely
:31:47. > :31:56.tortured. Back in Addis Abada, it is here that some of the worst
:31:56. > :32:01.human rights abuses are alleged to be currently taking place. This is
:32:01. > :32:07.the prison, and it is here that opposition politicians, academics
:32:07. > :32:14.and dissidents are interrogated. This man recently fled from
:32:14. > :32:21.Ethiopia after his release. TRANSLATION: Interrogation starts
:32:21. > :32:31.with beating. They handcuff your hands and feet, and hang you upside
:32:31. > :32:35.
:32:35. > :32:40.down. They immerse you in water. They use electric shocks. This man
:32:40. > :32:50.was a senior opposition politician. He was interrogated every night for
:32:50. > :32:50.
:32:50. > :33:00.six weeks, kept in solitary confinement. I have never seen such
:33:00. > :33:02.
:33:02. > :33:09.being grigaigs of - being gridaigs of human being. I saw a man -
:33:09. > :33:17.Degradation, they said to a man to remove his trousers, they beat him,
:33:17. > :33:25.and beat him, they took his penis and with a cable round it just beat
:33:25. > :33:28.it like that, he will never produce again. You will be castrated.
:33:28. > :33:33.The Ethiopian Human Rights Commission recently published a
:33:33. > :33:43.report into conditions in 35 prisons across the country. It says
:33:43. > :33:50.
:33:50. > :34:00.The international community funds the Ethiopian commission. Last year
:34:00. > :34:05.the UK's contribution was �230,000. This is an internationally
:34:05. > :34:13.respected human rights campaigner, Professor Mesfin Woldemariam.
:34:13. > :34:22.they wanted the Human Rights Commission to work, justly, legally,
:34:22. > :34:27.I think there is a lot to be said. But these are puppets appointed to
:34:27. > :34:32.the commission. Absolute puppets. You know we have a generation of
:34:32. > :34:36.people beaten, some of them even lost their lives, and we challenge
:34:36. > :34:43.a lot of diplomats, including British diplomats to get access to
:34:43. > :34:48.what is going on. What is their response? They say the Government
:34:48. > :34:52.say this is interference, the Government say this and that, more
:34:52. > :34:57.apologetic, not really pressing hard to get the information about
:34:57. > :35:00.what is going on. They need to think much more strategically about
:35:00. > :35:04.how you engage with a country that fundamentally disrespects human
:35:04. > :35:10.rights. How do you make sure that aid in that contextually gets where
:35:10. > :35:15.it is supposed to get. It is a - context, actually gets where it is
:35:15. > :35:18.going to get. The purpose of development said is to help
:35:18. > :35:21.Ethiopia on to its feet to establish democracy, justice and
:35:21. > :35:31.the rule of law. The evidence we have gathered suggests it is
:35:31. > :35:33.
:35:33. > :35:41.failing. Joining me now is the Ethiopian deputy head of mission to
:35:41. > :35:46.the UK, ambassador Abdirashid Dulane. First of all, what we
:35:46. > :35:51.discovered was human rights violations that were systemic,
:35:51. > :35:55.widespread abuse and sorture, a pregnant woman raped and tortured,
:35:55. > :36:01.a grandmother in the refugee camp who said she was raped, another
:36:01. > :36:06.woman who was stamped on her stomach, what do you say to that?
:36:07. > :36:16.First, thank you very much actually for allowing us to explain, but,
:36:16. > :36:26.first, I want to indicate that this is completely a report that lacks
:36:26. > :36:27.
:36:27. > :36:37.objectivity, it also lacks even- handedness, and as a matter of fact
:36:37. > :36:37.
:36:37. > :36:43.it solely got the source, the sources which it used are opponents
:36:43. > :36:52.of Ethiopia who have been rejected by the electorate, and who have
:36:52. > :36:57.been, time and again, already shown that their allegations are
:36:57. > :37:02.unfounded. If you look, for example.: Do you disbelieve these
:37:02. > :37:09.women were raped and tortured, one had bayonet marks on her feet,
:37:09. > :37:13.these are not, these are women and grand mothers? These are in the
:37:13. > :37:18.refugee camp. These are in the refugee camp? Only one, the others
:37:18. > :37:22.were within the country. They were, our reporter was there? He said
:37:22. > :37:26.actually he was reporting from the refugee camp. He spoke to one women
:37:26. > :37:30.in the refugee camp, and he spoke to others within the country. The
:37:30. > :37:35.point is surely that these women, whether these women are opposition
:37:35. > :37:44.supporters or not, presumably you condemn any kind of torture or
:37:44. > :37:47.abuse? Yes. I was generally talking about the report. As far as torture
:37:47. > :37:54.and rape is concerned, the Ethiopian Government is a
:37:54. > :37:58.Government that is governed by the rule of law. That human rights and
:37:58. > :38:08.also democratic rights, are enshrined within the Ethiopian
:38:08. > :38:13.constitution. What happens in prison, in prison in Addis Abada,
:38:13. > :38:18.we heard there were men that had their heads held underwater, whose
:38:18. > :38:24.genitals were smashed, who had electric currents put through their
:38:24. > :38:28.body? These are completely rehashed and recycling of old allegations
:38:28. > :38:34.for which my Government has time and again and repeatedly has given
:38:34. > :38:37.answers to. What about having a UN special raconter on torture, to go
:38:37. > :38:42.into the country and look around the prisons and speak to the
:38:42. > :38:46.people? What about that? What I'm saying is look at your reporter,
:38:46. > :38:52.what he was saying that the reporters are not actually allowed,
:38:52. > :38:58.and he was reporting actually from Addis Abada. He got in secretly? He
:38:58. > :39:03.was undercover, ambassador? He was reporting from Oromo, he was also
:39:03. > :39:10.reporting. Can I just tell you, he was undercover? Can I tell you, one
:39:11. > :39:17.of your reporters, Mike skap skal woolridg, he was there, he has been
:39:17. > :39:21.there, he was reporting in the country. Can I be clear, you have
:39:21. > :39:27.to understand the BBC position on this, he had to go undercover, he
:39:27. > :39:33.would have not been allowed entry into Ethiopia. Who were his sources,
:39:33. > :39:38.who took him into the country, OLF, these are the two organisations he
:39:38. > :39:42.took as a source. He spoke to many, many villagers, and scores of
:39:42. > :39:48.people, one particular point, let's talk about the farmer who said he
:39:48. > :39:52.had neither fertiliser and seeds, what Angus Stickler found when he
:39:52. > :39:55.visited villages, is one village would be on the edge of starvation
:39:56. > :39:58.and no crops, and the next village people were not starving, they were
:39:58. > :40:02.not prosperous, they were not starving, and the village that was
:40:02. > :40:06.in much greater trouble was a village that had opposition
:40:06. > :40:11.supporters, the village that was looked after, was a Government-
:40:11. > :40:18.supported village, do you deny that? Yes, I completely deny that.
:40:18. > :40:24.In Ethiopia in 200315 million people were actually requiring
:40:24. > :40:27.assistance, now, in 2011 only 4.5 million people are requiring
:40:27. > :40:35.assistance. From here you can understand that the policies of the
:40:35. > :40:42.Government, for which we are always putting as a priority, in making
:40:42. > :40:46.sure that the early warning systems are actually in place, and these
:40:46. > :40:50.people which they are saying actually have never actually
:40:50. > :40:56.starved. The UN report on torture on Ethiopia, amnesty, Human Rights
:40:56. > :40:59.Watch, they are all lying, they are just talking nonsense, and
:40:59. > :41:03.Newsnight too? Because these independent investigations have
:41:03. > :41:08.already been carried out. As a matter of fact by saying my
:41:08. > :41:18.Government is actually starving people, and the use of aid money
:41:18. > :41:18.
:41:18. > :41:21.and aid resources and the development assistance group has
:41:21. > :41:25.already independently investigated and already found that these
:41:25. > :41:33.allegations were completely unfounded, and were fabricated.
:41:33. > :41:38.Just one last point, do you think that you would let, not only the UN
:41:38. > :41:42.special person in, but do you think journalists should be able to come
:41:42. > :41:48.into the country to speak to whoever they wish and go wherever
:41:48. > :41:58.they want, and they should be allowed into Ethiopia to make their
:41:58. > :42:06.own judgments? Journalists with special agendas, working close with
:42:06. > :42:11.these terrorists elements will still be not allowed And the UN
:42:11. > :42:13.representative, you will let him in? We will be able to do that.
:42:13. > :42:23.Unfortunately there was no-one from the Department of International
:42:23. > :42:36.
:42:36. > :42:39.development available tonight. They It's 13 years since capital
:42:39. > :42:43.punishment has been voted on at Westminster. It seems it is rarely
:42:43. > :42:47.talked about among politicians. But the subject has received the most
:42:47. > :42:52.on-line e-petitions, more than 40, in the Government's new e-petitions
:42:52. > :42:56.scheme, which went live today. If the number of signatures to these
:42:56. > :42:59.e-petitions were to reach 100,000, it is possible it could trigger a
:42:59. > :43:04.parliamentary debate. Supporters of capital punishment believe MPs have
:43:04. > :43:14.no stomach for the issue of the death penalty, and this just might
:43:14. > :43:16.
:43:16. > :43:20.On June 21st Ruth Ellis was found guilty of murder at the Old Bailey.
:43:20. > :43:26.The questions about the death penalty haven't changed. Millions
:43:26. > :43:31.are asking is it iflised to kill by law, does it really act as a
:43:31. > :43:37.deterrent. Ever since its abolition, the campaign to bring it back has
:43:37. > :43:41.flared up periodically. An hour before the debate began a cue 100
:43:41. > :43:46.yards long had formed outside the House of Commons. They should bring
:43:46. > :43:50.hanging back. Ultimately the attempts have never gotten anywhere.
:43:50. > :43:58.Hanging seems to be, literally, a dead issue. The latest attempt to
:43:58. > :44:03.bring back capital punishment, has come from a blogger who has named
:44:03. > :44:06.himself after someone who was executed, or a while back, Guido
:44:06. > :44:11.Fawkes. The public has always supported the death penal tee, but
:44:11. > :44:15.politicians have voted against it. At the moment we have seen a
:44:15. > :44:20.disengagement between the political classs and the public. As way of
:44:20. > :44:23.trying to address the disengagement, the Government has launched its e-
:44:23. > :44:28.petition website. It is this that campaigners for the death penalty
:44:28. > :44:34.think will make a decisive difference. Get00,000 names and it
:44:34. > :44:40.could, could, trigger a Commons debate. The final decision is up to
:44:40. > :44:44.a committee of backbenchers. I'm anxious this will be a success. It
:44:44. > :44:47.is an improvement on the previous e-petition, which ended at Number
:44:47. > :44:50.Ten and didn't lead to the House of Commons. I'm sure the Backbench
:44:50. > :44:53.Business Committee will want to respond to the petitions and look
:44:53. > :44:57.at it alongside other priorities, and find time to debate the most
:44:57. > :45:01.important issues that emerge from the launch today. Even if there is
:45:01. > :45:06.a debate t seems unlikely that enough MPs would vote for a
:45:06. > :45:10.restoration. Across the world, the countries with death penalties,
:45:10. > :45:16.there are so many people, hundreds of thousands of people executed
:45:16. > :45:19.yearly, it hasn't prevented those sorts of crimes taking place. When
:45:19. > :45:24.criminals commit crime, they don't think of the sentence, but whether
:45:24. > :45:29.they can get away with it. Should our elected representative doss
:45:30. > :45:34.what we tell them. MPs like Edmund Burke have long argued that they
:45:34. > :45:39.should have the strength to resist popular opinion. As I said to my
:45:39. > :45:43.speech of the electors of Bristol 1774, your representatives owes you,
:45:43. > :45:50.not his industry only, but his judgment, and he betrays, instead
:45:50. > :45:53.of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion. And I went on to
:45:53. > :45:59.say, authoritative instructions, mandates issued, which the member
:45:59. > :46:03.is bound blindly and implicitly to obey, to vote and to argue for,
:46:03. > :46:07.though contrary to the clearest conviction of his judgment and
:46:07. > :46:16.conscience, these are things utterly unknown to the laws of this
:46:16. > :46:22.land, and which arise from a fundamental mistake of our order
:46:22. > :46:25.and tenor of our constitution. other words MPs are representatives
:46:25. > :46:28.not delegates. Then there is how you measure the public opinion.
:46:28. > :46:31.is absolutely true the public would like to see this issue debated in
:46:31. > :46:35.parliament. We find three quarters of people saying that politicians
:46:35. > :46:38.ignore the popular will when it comes to sentences for serious
:46:38. > :46:42.crimes. We know many people see crime as one of the biggest
:46:42. > :46:46.problems facing Britain. We know when we ask people what is it about
:46:46. > :46:49.crime bothering you, it is sentences being too lenient. But
:46:49. > :46:55.when people sit down and consider the issues, in the way that MPs
:46:55. > :46:59.have to, their views turn out to be a bit more nuanced. If you take the
:46:59. > :47:04.killing of Sara Payne, people said at the time of her murder her
:47:04. > :47:08.killer should be executed. After all the judicial process, and life
:47:08. > :47:13.in jail, as the sentence, without remission, 84% admitted that
:47:13. > :47:16.judgment was right. As if to illustrate the problem, the most
:47:16. > :47:21.popular petition on the Government's website tonight is to
:47:21. > :47:29.keep the ban on capital punishment, getting more than double the
:47:29. > :47:33.support for the petition for bringing back the death penalty.
:47:33. > :47:38.Further Government developments on the stories developing last night
:47:38. > :47:43.on Newsnight, we reported claims by Heather Mills claiming her phone
:47:43. > :47:49.was hacked by a Mirror Group journalist. We carried an exclusive
:47:49. > :47:54.interview with Heather Mills, where she said she had been contacted by
:47:54. > :47:59.a Mirror Group journalist, who relayed to her, verbatim, a message
:47:59. > :48:05.that Sir Paul McCarthy had left on her voicemail, leading her to the
:48:05. > :48:11.conclusion that her phone had been hacked, apparently confirmed by an
:48:11. > :48:16.unnamed journalist. Added to this, an article written by Piers Morgan,
:48:16. > :48:22.not the journalist named to u where he explained during his time as
:48:23. > :48:26.editor of the Mirror, he was played a tape of a message left by Sir
:48:26. > :48:30.Paul McCarthy. Tonight there is word that Sir Paul McCarthy has
:48:30. > :48:34.entered the fray, talking to a group of journalists in Los Angeles,
:48:34. > :48:40.where he has said he will ask the police to investigate this
:48:40. > :48:45.allegation, decribing the hacking of phones as a horrendous invasion
:48:45. > :48:49.of privacy. When someone of his stature gets involved in this, it
:48:49. > :48:53.only makes people like Piers Morgan to explain how they heard this tape.
:48:53. > :49:03.No time for the papers, they all go on financial meltdown. That is all
:49:03. > :49:28.
:49:28. > :49:32.from Newsnight tonight, join us After the rain of Thursday, Friday
:49:32. > :49:34.is looking good. With most places dry and bright, with some very
:49:34. > :49:37.pleasant sunshine, the rain clearing away from the Northern
:49:37. > :49:41.Isles during the course of the day and for the rest of the UK we are
:49:41. > :49:45.set fair. Mid-afternoon, broken cloud and sunshine, across the
:49:45. > :49:49.heart of England. Temperatures in the comfort zone, high teens, low
:49:49. > :49:53.20s, light winds. Warmer than that, across the London area. We have
:49:53. > :49:57.lost the oppressive heat which many of us have endured over the last
:49:57. > :50:02.couple of days. Some of the best sunshine around the coastal fringe.
:50:02. > :50:06.There will be some cloud building up inland, across the south west
:50:06. > :50:12.peninsula, it shouldn't threaten rain, it is a similar story across
:50:12. > :50:16.Wales too, some of the best of the blue skies will be on the beaches.
:50:16. > :50:21.In Northern Ireland the odd chance of a shower. Most places staying
:50:21. > :50:25.dry and bright, and for Scotland showers will be isolated.
:50:25. > :50:28.Temperatures 17-18. Friday looking OK, Saturday across the more
:50:28. > :50:32.northern areas is more mixed, there will be a threat of showers, and
:50:32. > :50:36.some heavy and slow moving. Further south, I think any showers
:50:36. > :50:42.remaining fairly isolated, a good chance on Saturday that many of us
:50:42. > :50:47.again will stay dry, high teens and low 20s, this is the set up on