:00:10. > :00:12.A year ago, the Government trumpetted plans for a
:00:12. > :00:17.rehabilitation revolution, now David Cameron's praising judges for
:00:17. > :00:23.handing down harsh sentences. But can the system cope with the sea
:00:23. > :00:28.change. Newsnight has learned that one council is having to use the
:00:29. > :00:31.Premier Inn hotel chain, to accommodate young offenders on
:00:32. > :00:38.remand. I'm very much taken aback by this. I don't think the lawyers
:00:38. > :00:42.or the community at large, when they learn that a local authority
:00:42. > :00:47.takes into the care and custody young people that the next step for
:00:47. > :00:50.that young person is say Premier Inn. I will ask the former Home
:00:50. > :00:54.Secretary, Jack Straw, what he makes of all this. The Work and
:00:54. > :00:57.Pensions minister says Britain is in the last chance saloon when it
:00:57. > :01:02.comes to solving this social crisis. But unemployment has gone up today,
:01:02. > :01:05.and stands at nearly 2.5 million. The Employment Minister is here to
:01:05. > :01:11.answer criticisms that Britain is not working.
:01:11. > :01:14.Also tonight, why was Gloucester a charming Cathedral City shaken by
:01:14. > :01:17.the riots. I have travelled extensively and go to London a lot,
:01:17. > :01:23.and feel more at threat in Gloucester than any other city in
:01:23. > :01:28.the country. And is the best way for women to
:01:28. > :01:32.get ahead, to lose weight and look sexy, a controversial new book
:01:32. > :01:42.argues so-called erotic capital is an asset females should exploit.
:01:42. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :01:49.The author is here to argue her Good evening, as of tonight, 1,297
:01:49. > :01:53.riot-related cases have gone through the courts. And 65% of
:01:53. > :01:56.those in the dock have been remanded in custody. But can the
:01:56. > :02:01.prison system cope, and does the justice system, already under the
:02:01. > :02:05.strain of 25% cuts, have the budget for this sudden spike in cases. It
:02:05. > :02:13.was only a few months ago that the Justice Secretary, Ken Clarke,
:02:13. > :02:17.hailed a new rehabilitation revolution, and as described
:02:17. > :02:21.prisoners in outdated facilities. It turned out before the riots, one
:02:21. > :02:28.local authority has had to warehouse at least one alleged
:02:28. > :02:34.offender in a budget hotel chain. I think we are being too lenient.
:02:34. > :02:37.It is perfectly reasonable for the courts to take the view that these
:02:37. > :02:41.sentences should be at the tougher end of the spectrum. The mood is
:02:41. > :02:46.clear, the public wants tough sentences for those involved in
:02:46. > :02:50.last week's looting. So six months for stealing a bottle of water it
:02:51. > :02:56.is. And from the Prime Minister, nothing but support for the courts.
:02:56. > :02:58.I think it is right that we should allow the courts to make decisions
:02:58. > :03:03.about sentencing. You weren't sitting in the court, I wasn't
:03:03. > :03:07.sitting in the court, we didn't hear the evidence, they decided in
:03:07. > :03:10.that court to send a tough sentence and message and it is very good
:03:11. > :03:14.courts feel able to do. That what happened on the streets was
:03:14. > :03:17.absolutely appalling behaviour, to send a very clear message that it
:03:18. > :03:21.is wrong and won't be tolerated is what the criminal justice system
:03:21. > :03:26.should be doing. How will this square with the Government's long-
:03:26. > :03:29.term plans to cut the prison population, and the budgets much
:03:29. > :03:33.courts and Legal Aid. Over the next four years the Ministry of Justice
:03:33. > :03:36.needs to shed a quarter of its costs to meet Government spending
:03:36. > :03:41.targets. What's more the Secretary of State for Justice is on record
:03:41. > :03:45.as saying he doesn't think jail always works. This was the Justice
:03:45. > :03:51.Secretary in a major speech last year on sentencing reform. Just
:03:51. > :03:56.banging up more and more people for longer, without actively seeking
:03:56. > :04:03.toe change them is, in my opinion, what would you expect of Vic
:04:03. > :04:06.Toryian England. And it is time we dk Victorian England, and it is
:04:07. > :04:12.time to focus on today's communities. Too often prison has
:04:12. > :04:16.proved a costly and ineffectual approach that fails to turn
:04:16. > :04:22.criminals into law-abiding citizens. It was an abrupt change in Tory
:04:22. > :04:27.policy, rather than the prison works approach of the 1980s, the
:04:27. > :04:33.new Justice Secretary actually wanted to cut prison numbers by
:04:33. > :04:39.3,000. The approach is bourne out of philosophy but also cold hard
:04:39. > :04:43.numbers. To keep a male in prison for a year, costs �40,000, sending
:04:43. > :04:48.him there costs �30 though in court costs. Currently in England and
:04:48. > :04:54.Wales there are 8 6,000 people detained at Her Majesty's pleasure,
:04:54. > :04:58.just 2,000 short of operational capacity. So far there have been
:04:58. > :05:03.1300 riot-related cases heard, two- thirds of the alleged offenders
:05:03. > :05:07.have been remanded in custody. In Ealing, one of the centres of the
:05:07. > :05:10.riots, the local Tory MP believes the Government may need to look
:05:10. > :05:13.again at its budget cuts to justice. The Prime Minister made it very
:05:13. > :05:18.clear in the House of Commons last week, when he was asked about this,
:05:18. > :05:21.that it is for the judges to decide on sentences, if they decide to
:05:21. > :05:25.send people to prison it is the Government's obligation to provide
:05:25. > :05:28.prison places for people. How will the Government do that if it needs
:05:28. > :05:31.to quarter the budget of the ministry? There are other things
:05:31. > :05:35.being looked at, not just prison place, we are looking at things
:05:35. > :05:38.like Legal Aid and all sorts of other things as well. Not just
:05:38. > :05:42.prison places. My view is, if we need to keep for prison places we
:05:42. > :05:46.need to do that. Today Newsnight has new evidence of the pressures
:05:46. > :05:56.on the criminal justice system. We have learned that Richmond Council
:05:56. > :05:56.
:05:56. > :06:02.has used a west London branch of the Premer in Inn, hotel - the
:06:02. > :06:07.Premier Inn hotel chain to house a prisoner on remand. The council
:06:07. > :06:17.wouldn't confirm how long the youth stayed there. Wefrpb we asked the
:06:17. > :06:32.
:06:32. > :06:37.hotel were they aware of the The revelation has shocked a
:06:37. > :06:43.leading criminal barrister. very much taken aback by this, I
:06:43. > :06:47.don't think either lawyers or indeed the community at large, when
:06:47. > :06:52.they learn that a local authority takes into the care and custody
:06:53. > :06:58.young people, that the next step for that young person is say
:06:58. > :07:02.Premier Inn, I'm surprised, I put it so far as being flabbergasted to
:07:02. > :07:05.hear this. Both the Ministry for Justice and the department for
:07:05. > :07:08.local communities say it is matter for the council.
:07:09. > :07:12.Balancing the public mood for justice, as well as the budget, is
:07:12. > :07:17.now the dilemma facing the coalition. But a prison reform
:07:17. > :07:20.group says we should also be thinking about what works the
:07:20. > :07:23.Particularly for short prison sentence, versus community
:07:23. > :07:27.sentences, where there is fair comparison in terms of the type of
:07:27. > :07:33.person that might be doing the sentence, and the type of offences
:07:33. > :07:38.they have done, the reoffending rates are sharp, almost two-thirds
:07:38. > :07:40.will go on to reoffend, half of that on community sentences
:07:40. > :07:46.reoffend. But that's not what the public
:07:47. > :07:49.wants for now. The last ten days have seen extraordinary shifts in
:07:49. > :07:55.the demand for tough crime policies. Whether the Government can deliver
:07:55. > :07:59.that long-term is a question no-one is answering at the moment. We
:07:59. > :08:03.asked to speak to someone from the Ministry of Justice, but was told
:08:03. > :08:05.nobody was available. Joining us now from Manchester is the former
:08:06. > :08:11.Justice Secretary and Home Secretary, Jack Straw. First of all,
:08:11. > :08:16.what's your reaction to the news that Richmond council used Premier
:08:16. > :08:22.Inn, to house an alleged offender on remand. I find it extraordinary,
:08:22. > :08:27.I'm not sure it is lawful. If an offender whether under 18 or over
:08:27. > :08:32.18, is remanded in custody there are very strict rules about the
:08:32. > :08:38.circumstances in which they are kept in a room from which they
:08:39. > :08:43.can't take any escape, that is certainly not Premier Inn, so
:08:43. > :08:46.Richmond Council have to do a great deal of explaining. Their silence
:08:46. > :08:50.this evening, their refusal to offer any explanation of this
:08:51. > :08:56.practice, underlines the fact that this is an indefensible practice
:08:56. > :09:00.itself. Is there any situation that you can think that would make it a
:09:00. > :09:04.justifiable decision? No, I have never heard of this, there are
:09:04. > :09:09.circumstances in which someone may be remanded on bail, on conditions,
:09:09. > :09:13.and for example an authority can't find a bail hostel so they put them
:09:13. > :09:17.somewhere else, an equivalent. In that case they would obviously make
:09:17. > :09:21.sure there was an arrangement made with the owners of that premises,
:09:21. > :09:27.which in the case of the hotel hasn't happened. What do you make
:09:27. > :09:33.of the fact that Premier Inn was completely ignorant of what's
:09:33. > :09:36.happening? I share astonishment in this. Presumably, it would mean
:09:37. > :09:40.that Premier Inn correction easily have put a guest in the next room?
:09:40. > :09:46.Of course they comfortable the whole thing is bizarre as well as
:09:46. > :09:51.extraordinary. Richmond Council, and by the way, a senior Liberal
:09:52. > :09:54.Democrat minister is, Vince Cable, is a member of parliament for one
:09:54. > :09:59.of the two Richmond constituent circumstance he too needs to
:09:59. > :10:04.explain what on earth is going on. You talked about the fact you think
:10:04. > :10:06.there are pretty strong rules in place, but the Ministry of Justice,
:10:06. > :10:10.the Department of Local Government, it is not matter for them surely,
:10:10. > :10:13.rather than a council to determine the rules. Is this not something
:10:13. > :10:17.central Government should be very clear on? Of course, I was
:10:17. > :10:22.reflecting when I heard that statement, the minister for justice
:10:22. > :10:26.said this is something for the local authority. It isn't, there
:10:27. > :10:31.are self-evidently in any civilised society, strict rules about whether,
:10:31. > :10:35.particularly juveniles, should be sent into custody, and if they are,
:10:35. > :10:40.the circumstances, the physical circumstances, the arrangement for
:10:40. > :10:45.their supervision. By the way, I'm also very surprised that Richmond
:10:45. > :10:50.Council apparently thought it was necessary to send this juvenile
:10:50. > :10:54.into the Premier Inn, as an alternative to a proper, licensed,
:10:54. > :11:01.secure establishment. Because in the last two or three years, the
:11:01. > :11:05.number of places for under 18, under 18 prisoners in secure
:11:05. > :11:10.establishments, that are being used, has dropped significantly. There
:11:10. > :11:13.has been a great deal of slack in the system. At the moment
:11:13. > :11:18.presumably there isn't slack in the criminal justice system per se,
:11:19. > :11:21.what should be done about that? so much. That I was looking at the
:11:21. > :11:27.Ministry of Justice website before I came out, they were boasting
:11:27. > :11:30.about the fact they had 2,500 spare place, even up to what is called
:11:30. > :11:33.the operational capacity, there is margin above that, because of the
:11:33. > :11:38.building programme. That is the building programme that, frankly, I
:11:38. > :11:44.got going, Ken Clarke has cancelled all of that programme that he can.
:11:44. > :11:52.On this issue, Wii you started, the so-called rehabilitation revolution,
:11:52. > :11:57.we are all in favour of improving rehabilitation of persistent
:11:57. > :12:01.offenders, the glib statement about the prison reformers, comparing
:12:01. > :12:08.community punishments and comparing the reoffending rate with those on
:12:08. > :12:11.short-term sentences won't wash. It is baloney, 96% of those who go to
:12:11. > :12:16.prison for a short-term sentence have been tried on a community
:12:16. > :12:20.punishment and failed, and three quarters of them, have seven or
:12:20. > :12:24.more sets of convictions. Now not only are we seeing at the moment
:12:24. > :12:27.this spike, because all these cases are going through the courts. 5%
:12:27. > :12:31.are on remand. Do you detect that is reflective of a mood in the
:12:31. > :12:36.community which the Government has picked up on. A mood that people
:12:36. > :12:42.are feeling themselves much tougher about this? Yes, look, prison is
:12:42. > :12:50.the punishment of last resort. Where you have and have, as we had
:12:50. > :12:58.a week ago, gangs taking the law into their own hands, becoming an
:12:58. > :13:02.arky on the streets, and make - anarchy on the streets and the
:13:02. > :13:07.state has to clamp down on that. That will cost money, not only for
:13:07. > :13:13.all the people who may end up on jail, but all the appeals that may
:13:13. > :13:19.be heard, how will that be paid, considering a 5% cut in the justice
:13:19. > :13:29.system? - a 25% cut in the justice system? With great difficulty, and
:13:29. > :13:33.the ministry's budget will bust. will bust? Yes. Over a year ago Ken
:13:33. > :13:38.Clarke ludicrously volunteered much greater cuts in his budget that he
:13:38. > :13:42.needed to. He was trying to show avenues very virile justice
:13:42. > :13:47.minister. If you think it will bust, are you in favour, for example, of
:13:47. > :13:52.judges handing out four-year sentences to two men for inciting a
:13:52. > :13:56.riot that didn't take place, but inciting a riot on a social
:13:56. > :13:59.network? In principle I'm in favour of that sentence. There have to be
:13:59. > :14:03.tough sentence, I wasn't in court, that is the point the Prime
:14:03. > :14:10.Minister made, I'm not going to judge the circumstances as if I had
:14:10. > :14:13.been in court. I'm absolutely clear that people who xir, which is what
:14:13. > :14:17.these - conspire, which is what these people sought to do, to
:14:17. > :14:23.organise a riot, whether they do that by Facebook or out in the
:14:23. > :14:28.street, must expect and deserve a very tough sentence. One of the
:14:28. > :14:31.five principles of sentencing set out in the 2003 Criminal Justice
:14:31. > :14:35.Act, as the chairman of the Magistrates' Association was
:14:35. > :14:40.referring to today, is that of deterrent, you can't have this
:14:40. > :14:43.anarchy, you have to deter people. But now there is a cost to that,
:14:43. > :14:48.and the Government will be wholly failing in the first duty of any
:14:48. > :14:50.Government, which is to keep the streets safe f it does not meet
:14:51. > :14:55.these costs. Today's unemployment figures offer
:14:55. > :14:59.little comfort to the Government in the wake of the riot, with a rise
:14:59. > :15:02.of 38,000 in England and Wales in the three months to June, the
:15:02. > :15:07.largest rise for more than two years. A figure the Chancellor
:15:07. > :15:11.describes simply as "disappointing". The general secretary of the trade
:15:11. > :15:15.The Female Eunuch son said the savage cuts have ended
:15:15. > :15:19.opportunities in the public sector, and it is the private sector
:15:19. > :15:23.struggling to withstand the economic downturn. With the
:15:23. > :15:26.announcement of 11 more Enterprise Zones in England be the magic
:15:26. > :15:30.bullet. Bradford Leeds, today's the small
:15:30. > :15:37.rise in unemployment significants barely matters, the problem here is
:15:37. > :15:43.entrenched. Years of depravation have left 46% of people here with
:15:43. > :15:47.no qualifications at all, finding a job is tough. My job is to get work,
:15:47. > :15:50.I'm doing college, that is the only way to do it is to get a trade in
:15:50. > :15:54.college. Now the Government has stopped EMA, you have to pay for it
:15:54. > :15:59.yourself, it is hard to pay for it. Figures today show youth
:15:59. > :16:03.unemployment above 20%, the evidence is it is scarred, a spell
:16:03. > :16:08.on the dole before the age of 23 can affect you throughout your
:16:08. > :16:11.working life. There are permanent scaring effects from this temporary
:16:11. > :16:15.unemployment shock. For example an individual who has a spell of
:16:15. > :16:20.unemployment during youth, their wages will be lower, even up to 20
:16:20. > :16:24.years later. So they can have wages when they are 42 which are 20%
:16:24. > :16:29.lower than an individual who wasn't unemployed during their youth.
:16:29. > :16:34.part of the solution, says the Government, is Enterprise Zones, 11
:16:34. > :16:37.new ones were named today. In the zone you get 100% business rate
:16:37. > :16:42.discount for five years. Simplified planning regulations and Government
:16:42. > :16:47.support for superfast broadband. need the private sector to be the
:16:47. > :16:50.engine of growth and jobs. The good news is the private sector has
:16:50. > :16:54.created around half a million jobs over the last year, we need it to
:16:54. > :16:58.go further and faster to make sure there are good will-paid jobs for
:16:58. > :17:06.all our people. That is why Enterprise Zones matter. Here is
:17:06. > :17:10.the kind of place it is supposed to work. Cobalt Light Systems a high-
:17:10. > :17:14.tech start up in Oxford. It has 15 employee, mainly scientist, but is
:17:14. > :17:18.about to go into production mode, which should mean more technician
:17:18. > :17:23.jobs. One of the options for us, is to start to manufacture, as our
:17:23. > :17:26.products gain acceptance, and I think the innovation centres and
:17:27. > :17:31.the Enterprise Zones certainly will help us to do that. As we grow, for
:17:31. > :17:36.example, we will have to move out of this innovation centre, there is
:17:36. > :17:40.some Greenfield sites nearby, and certainly the Enterprise Zones will
:17:40. > :17:46.encourage new build structures that we can potentially move into and
:17:46. > :17:52.occupy in the future. But, as for many UK firms, the problem is the
:17:52. > :17:55.absence of a trained and skilled work force. If you look at where
:17:55. > :17:59.the Enterprise Zones are cited, there is a mismatch, it is always
:17:59. > :18:02.some distance from the unemployment black spots. The one in London is
:18:03. > :18:06.near Canary Wharf, the two in Birmingham are not exactly in the
:18:06. > :18:10.worst hit areas, it is the same across the country. There is a
:18:10. > :18:16.reason. Fundamentally I think these places have become unattractive for
:18:16. > :18:20.businesss to locate in, want to set up. That is a very big challenge
:18:20. > :18:26.these places face. We know the types of things that would improve
:18:26. > :18:32.the economic boincy of these areas would be to improve their skills
:18:32. > :18:39.profile. For example, areas like Stoke Hull, Birmingham, all areas
:18:39. > :18:43.with an Enterprise Zone, have between 17-19% of their working age
:18:43. > :18:47.people unemployed. Addressing these deep seated challenges will be more
:18:47. > :18:53.important to the long-term economic growth potential of these cities.
:18:53. > :18:56.The first Enterprise Zones were launched in the early 1980 today
:18:56. > :19:00.they are widely believed to have failed. The relocated existing jobs
:19:00. > :19:03.didn't create new one, and what stalled employment was sustained
:19:03. > :19:09.recovery, which is what is not happening today. Schemes such as
:19:09. > :19:13.the private enterprise scheme, they are incentivising the private
:19:13. > :19:16.sector to create jobs, this won't have a quick impact on youth
:19:16. > :19:21.unemployment. We need a direct scheme that quickly takes the
:19:21. > :19:24.individuals out of unemployment and into work or education now. Because
:19:24. > :19:29.if we don't do that the consequences for these individuals
:19:29. > :19:33.will last a lifetime. And there is another problem revealed in today's
:19:34. > :19:37.figures about migration, employment among British workers in red, falls
:19:38. > :19:42.rapidly at the start of the crisis but only among foreign nationals in
:19:42. > :19:47.yellow. But then, in the recovery, foreign workers have taken more
:19:48. > :19:56.jobs than UK nationals, especially in the last two quarters. Here's
:19:56. > :20:02.the view on that from people. are coming over working minimum
:20:02. > :20:06.wage, we can do the same work for minimum wage, it is harder for an
:20:06. > :20:10.English person, than a Polish person who can get a job straight
:20:10. > :20:14.away. The real nightmare for politicians in the recovery, is we
:20:14. > :20:20.get a recovery in private sector demand, but the work force can't
:20:20. > :20:30.match it. With nearly a quarter of all adults economically inactive,
:20:30. > :20:30.
:20:30. > :20:37.the skills base is being eroded, with one million unemployed it is
:20:37. > :20:40.not catching up faster. There will be 250,000 school leavers with A-
:20:40. > :20:47.level results tomorrow to add to that.
:20:47. > :20:53.The private sector hasn't delivered the jobs bonanza fast enough to
:20:53. > :21:01.deal with the numbers of 17-23- year-old who is are on the dole and
:21:01. > :21:04.unskilled. They will left behind? There is a huge youth unemployment
:21:04. > :21:09.challenge. If you look at the labour market over the last 12
:21:09. > :21:15.months, we have seen four-times as many jobs created in the private
:21:15. > :21:21.sector, as jobs lost in the public sector. Who are they going to?
:21:21. > :21:25.of the frustrations is we haven't had up to now a scheme to match
:21:25. > :21:29.unemployed British workers to vacancies. We have that now, that
:21:29. > :21:33.is designed to solve that problem. You have the enterprise areas, but
:21:33. > :21:37.not in the areas where there is all the unemployment, there is a
:21:37. > :21:40.mismatch immediately? That is not right, if you look at the north-
:21:40. > :21:45.east, areas particularly affected, an area where we can't to see a
:21:45. > :21:52.bigger and stronger private sector, there are two Enterprise Zones, one
:21:52. > :21:57.in the Tees Valley and one around Newcastle. That will serve as an
:21:57. > :22:03.engine to help grow the private sector. You are not matching the
:22:03. > :22:07.unemployment black spots with skills. If you don't put highly-
:22:07. > :22:12.skilled training in areas where the factories are, the factories will
:22:12. > :22:16.go to foreign nationals as we see on the graph? You talk about it
:22:16. > :22:21.being far away, in London we have black spots in South-East London,
:22:21. > :22:26.we have an Enterprise Zone around Canary Wharf, that is a short
:22:26. > :22:30.commute away. In the north, black spots in Newcastle and an
:22:30. > :22:33.Enterprise Zone around Newcastle, they are there, and close by and
:22:33. > :22:37.accessible. The fact is the jobs aren't going to British national,
:22:37. > :22:40.that graph was perfectly clear, as the recovery starts, foreign
:22:40. > :22:43.nationals, not British nationals are getting the jobs. That is a
:22:43. > :22:47.strange position for a Conservative Government? We recognise that
:22:47. > :22:50.problem, one of the key goals of the providers who are going to be
:22:50. > :22:53.delivering our work programme s to match individual job seekers to
:22:53. > :23:01.find the right opportunities, to remote vait people who have been
:23:01. > :23:04.out of work for long time, to fill the skills gap to make sure there
:23:04. > :23:10.is the ready work force. filling of the skills gap is too
:23:10. > :23:15.slow. It must be very disheartening for 17-23-year-olds, who haven't
:23:15. > :23:21.got the skills now and see this whole wave of schoolchildren coming
:23:21. > :23:25.out behind them. You atrify if you are unemployed, your skills become
:23:25. > :23:27.less. That is right. If you look at young job seekers we have done two
:23:27. > :23:32.things. Along with the work programme and the support we
:23:32. > :23:35.provide through organisations like the Prince's Trust, our work
:23:35. > :23:39.experience scheme is delivering those opportunities for precisely
:23:39. > :23:42.those people. Joining us now are Martina Milburn, the chief
:23:42. > :23:46.executive of the Prince's Trust, Laura Rennis, long-term unemployed
:23:46. > :23:51.but now running her own business and from Newcastle, Andrew Hodgson,
:23:51. > :23:54.the chief executive of a high-tech manufacturing company on north
:23:54. > :23:59.Tyneside. Andrew Hodgson, you heard the minister say that the skills
:23:59. > :24:03.are there in the right areas, you run a high-tech company, what's
:24:03. > :24:07.your experience? For the last two years we have recruited about 200
:24:07. > :24:10.people, all of very high skill. But I have to say that most of that has
:24:11. > :24:14.been achieved by taking from companies that have been laying off.
:24:14. > :24:17.I think we are reaching the point now where we are struggling to find
:24:17. > :24:20.people with the right skills going forward. We tried to do things with
:24:20. > :24:25.the local colleges and universities to address, that clearly, as you
:24:25. > :24:30.have said, it is quite a slow process. In fact, you don't have
:24:30. > :24:34.young engineers? We have some young engineers entering our population,
:24:34. > :24:39.but over time we have seen, in the last ten years, the number of
:24:39. > :24:42.people taking up science and technology-type degrees have
:24:43. > :24:46.dramatically reduced and therefore the quality of people entering the
:24:46. > :24:52.population at graduate level has been severely reduced. You have a
:24:52. > :24:55.lot of unemployed people in your area? The north-east as the highest
:24:55. > :24:59.level of unemployment, we have one of the lowest levels of skills,
:24:59. > :25:02.clearly you can see the co-relation between those two numbers. That is
:25:02. > :25:09.firsthand experience for a man trying to run a high-tech company?
:25:09. > :25:14.This is precisely the reason why we have had 100,000 extra
:25:14. > :25:19.apprenticeships. It is essential for a high-tech business to develop
:25:19. > :25:21.the skills at college and university level that are right for
:25:21. > :25:24.those companies. You heard manufacturing capability talked
:25:24. > :25:28.about, we have to make sure where we have investment in manufacturing,
:25:28. > :25:30.we have skills that are built amongst the existing unemployed
:25:31. > :25:40.community, that they are remote vaited and we find the right
:25:41. > :25:49.
:25:49. > :25:54.vacancies for them. .We Have to match the employers with employees.
:25:54. > :25:59.This is where the Prince's Trust comes in, you are matching people
:25:59. > :26:02.so far off the scale of skills, how does this help them? The way you
:26:02. > :26:05.help those types of young people is with a lot of support. One of the
:26:05. > :26:09.things we have been discussing with Government is the amount of support
:26:09. > :26:14.and long-term support that those young people need, and it isn't
:26:14. > :26:17.just about the cash, it is about the people and meantors that go
:26:17. > :26:21.with them. How long were you unemployed? About four or five
:26:21. > :26:26.years. What did that feel like being there, somebody else in the
:26:26. > :26:34.film thought about it there you feel like you are atrifying on the
:26:34. > :26:38.dole? You get a sense of demote vaigs, you become very defeatist
:26:38. > :26:44.and depressed, you get very fed up, I know myself I didn't want to not
:26:44. > :26:47.have a job. Is that the experience of a lot of your friends r a number
:26:47. > :26:51.of your friends in the same position? At the time I do remember
:26:51. > :27:01.a lot of my friends were seeking employment, but thankfully they are
:27:01. > :27:03.
:27:03. > :27:06.all in employment now. What is your impression of the skills gap?
:27:06. > :27:12.training do you think people need? There is a lot of attention for
:27:12. > :27:17.people to achieve the core subjects, English, maths and science, there
:27:17. > :27:21.are a lot of young people who are cast aside that don't achieve
:27:21. > :27:27.highly in the main academic subjects. There are so many young
:27:27. > :27:30.people if they were channelled in the same way to complete CDT, wood
:27:30. > :27:34.shop, electricians courses and things like that, they wouldn't be
:27:34. > :27:39.cast aside and put that element of doubt upon them that they are not
:27:39. > :27:44.able to achieve anything. Is that your experience with young people
:27:44. > :27:48.that they are not channelled in the right direction? I think so, with
:27:48. > :27:54.the apprenticeship level it is set quite high, you need to have NVQ
:27:54. > :27:58.level 2 or 3, and the group we are talking about haven't even got NVQ
:27:58. > :28:01.level 1, just to finish, a young person told me a while ago they had
:28:01. > :28:05.left their apprenticeship, because they were doing a plumbing course,
:28:05. > :28:09.but they had to spend all the time doing the history of plumbing, I
:28:09. > :28:13.don't want a plumber who knows the history of plumbing, I want someone
:28:13. > :28:17.to mend my sink, that is the bit we have been working closely with
:28:17. > :28:21.Government to engage those young people, but it takes longer. It is
:28:21. > :28:24.practical experience and help. don't have the time, and they don't
:28:24. > :28:28.have the time, Chris Grayling, surely there needs to be a lot more
:28:28. > :28:33.done. A number of young people simply aren't even on the starting
:28:33. > :28:36.ladder? One of the problems is many employers are reluctant to take on
:28:36. > :28:39.someone straight from school or college. We are trying to do
:28:39. > :28:42.through the work experience scheme is to get employers, we have now
:28:42. > :28:46.thousands of young people going through the scheme, into the work
:28:47. > :28:50.place for a couple of months to show employers what they can do.
:28:50. > :28:54.that enough, Andrew Hodgson? Sorry. Is it enough now to say to young
:28:54. > :28:58.people here is two months that you can go away and work out what you
:28:58. > :29:02.want to do, and then you have to find your path, is that enough?
:29:02. > :29:07.think it is very, very difficult, we hear a lot from various employer
:29:07. > :29:09.groups about the employability of young people, I think it is
:29:09. > :29:14.important that people understand that is an issue, maybe two months
:29:14. > :29:20.does give people chance to folk cushion but clearly we need to be
:29:20. > :29:23.working with people - focus, but clearly we need to working with
:29:23. > :29:28.people to see they have the growth paths for the future. Do you think
:29:29. > :29:33.things will get worse before they get better? I think things will get
:29:33. > :29:37.better. We are looking through the Enterprise Zone in the north-east,
:29:37. > :29:40.creating 3,000 low-carbon jobs, I think the number will be more like
:29:40. > :29:43.10,000, there are a lot of opportunities for British companies
:29:43. > :29:48.to focus. We have a pretty good skills base, not with standing
:29:49. > :29:52.everything we have said today. We have a great infrastructure in the
:29:52. > :29:57.north-east, I think we have started on a path to growth. Path to growth
:29:57. > :30:00.there, a slow path to growth maybe, the danger is you won't do enough
:30:00. > :30:04.to turn this around in time? These are difficult times economically
:30:04. > :30:07.there are two things we have to do to try to build employment. One is
:30:07. > :30:10.to create the kind of environment we are talking about through
:30:10. > :30:14.Enterprise Zones, where businesses are growing and creating jobs. The
:30:14. > :30:18.other is through the work being done by the work programme,
:30:18. > :30:20.Jobcentre Plus, and the organisations like the Princess
:30:20. > :30:24.trust, providing specialist support for the long-term unemployed, that
:30:24. > :30:26.is what we are doing as well. In an interview today the Work and
:30:26. > :30:30.Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, said Britain was the last
:30:30. > :30:37.chance saloon when it came to the social crisis, that wasn't the
:30:37. > :30:46.crisis but the crisis is coming. Most of the violent disorder took
:30:46. > :30:50.place in inner cities, some more quiet pockets of England fell
:30:50. > :30:53.victim to the rioting too and looting. We went to find out what
:30:53. > :31:00.happened. This doesn't look like the place to contemplate the
:31:00. > :31:05.problems of contemplery Britain. Gloucester is an easy going city on
:31:05. > :31:09.the tourist circuit. Famous for the Cathedral and for once being the
:31:09. > :31:14.unlikely home of mass murderer Fred West. On Tuesday last week its
:31:14. > :31:18.image suddenly changed. Windows were smashed and shops looted.
:31:18. > :31:22.Bristol was quieter, but the trouble across the west has the
:31:22. > :31:27.police at full stretch. Gangs of youths took to the streets hurling
:31:27. > :31:32.rocks and bottles at police, smashing windows and starting fires.
:31:32. > :31:36.Firemen needed police protection against the rioters. 24 people have
:31:36. > :31:40.been charged so far. I understand that most of them are white. Just
:31:40. > :31:45.over a week on, the arrests have continued, cases go through court,
:31:45. > :31:49.and the city has returned to its pleasant, normal tranquility, at
:31:49. > :31:54.least on the surface. There is still a furious debate, why
:31:54. > :31:58.Gloucester, why on earth should there be riots here? The riots have
:31:58. > :32:01.led to soul searching with inevitably very different and
:32:01. > :32:04.sometimes startling conclusions. Outside the Cathedral, I met two
:32:04. > :32:09.ladies who worked there. Were you surprised this happened in
:32:09. > :32:14.Gloucester? Not at all. You weren't surprised? Not at all. Do you not
:32:14. > :32:18.feel safe in Gloucester? No, I don't. We were mugged in May in the
:32:18. > :32:22.porch of the Cathedral. Just round the back here? Yes, I have
:32:22. > :32:27.travelled extensively, go to London a lot, and feel more at threat in
:32:27. > :32:30.Gloucester than any other city in the country. They haven't got
:32:30. > :32:36.discipline, they haven't got discipline at home, and therefore,
:32:36. > :32:41.they grow up with the idea that the world owes them a living, that the
:32:41. > :32:45.gang culture takes over, nobody else matters, and I think it is
:32:45. > :32:49.very, very sad. We have got to do something. The local MP was,
:32:49. > :32:53.perhaps, naturally, concerned for the city's image. I'm not sure I
:32:53. > :32:58.would call them riots. I think the police themselves would say. Police
:32:58. > :33:01.taked with bottles and stones, buildings set on fire, firemen
:33:01. > :33:04.frightened because they were being attacked themselves, that is a riot
:33:04. > :33:10.surely? No. Police had to stop people coming into the centre here,
:33:10. > :33:15.that is the way they talk about it? I think the word "riot" is too
:33:15. > :33:19.strong. We had a very disappointing night with significant disturbances
:33:19. > :33:25.and one empty building, set on fire in an upper room. That doesn't
:33:25. > :33:27.really mean a riot. It is all about image for Gloucester, isn't it?
:33:27. > :33:33.doesn't help Gloucester's reputation, we know it was a bad
:33:34. > :33:37.night a lot of us were very cross about it. I had 700 e-mails from
:33:37. > :33:42.people frustrated about such things happening here. We had a fire in
:33:42. > :33:47.the college just over here. And then a large group forming up in
:33:47. > :33:51.East Gate Street. The police took me on a tour of last week's trouble
:33:51. > :33:55.spots. They did well in keeping rioters out of the city centre.
:33:55. > :34:01.is here they managed to find things to grow at the police. People were
:34:01. > :34:05.using bottles they brought from pubs to use as missiles. Assistant
:34:05. > :34:09.Chief Constables argued that cutbacks could have been a factor.
:34:09. > :34:13.If you look at what is happening across the whole of the country in
:34:13. > :34:18.terms of cutbacks of services for a number of people, it is likely that
:34:18. > :34:21.is going to have an impact on people feeling valued or being
:34:21. > :34:24.listened to or getting the services they need. Some of that may have
:34:24. > :34:28.played out on Tuesday evening in Gloucester, I think it is really
:34:28. > :34:32.hard to say there was a direct impact. Certainly, what we would
:34:32. > :34:35.all like to see are far more services for young people, far more
:34:35. > :34:39.activities to engage young people and actually make them feel they
:34:39. > :34:43.have a stake in society, that they have some hope of getting a job in
:34:43. > :34:46.the future, some hope of getting a decent education and training, and
:34:46. > :34:50.they have actually got their place in society, where they are earning
:34:50. > :34:56.a living and they would do all of those things that the rest of us
:34:56. > :35:00.would like to do. Gloucester may have the appearance of a well off
:35:00. > :35:06.affluent city, but the figures show 9,000 people out of work across
:35:06. > :35:13.Gloucestershire. This is one of the most deprived areas, with high
:35:13. > :35:18.unemployment and most claiming benefits across the city. It is a
:35:18. > :35:22.multiracial part of the city. It was here the rioters caused damage
:35:22. > :35:28.after failing to reach smarters shops across the city.
:35:28. > :35:31.There is place for young people to go here. Some of the time. The
:35:31. > :35:35.Youth Peace Project was launched last week just after the riot. It
:35:35. > :35:40.is funded through the Home Office, using money eased from criminals,
:35:41. > :35:44.it is only open four hours a week. Back about five years ago there was
:35:44. > :35:48.four youth centres all open sometimes four nights a week, for
:35:48. > :35:52.up two to three hours at night, then they had summer provisions
:35:52. > :35:59.during the summer holidays when young people are not at school and
:35:59. > :36:03.college T has diminished ridiculously. The project is run by
:36:03. > :36:08.Delroy Ellis, a one time drug dealer, now praises for community
:36:08. > :36:11.work. He used to run another youth club but it closed last December
:36:11. > :36:16.because he lost its funding. He claims there is a connection
:36:16. > :36:26.between that loss and the riot? Told by people that nearly 1500
:36:26. > :36:26.
:36:26. > :36:30.people that attended the meeting from the riots came from Star 66,
:36:30. > :36:33.that is from the old club. I'm not saying I could have stopped it, I
:36:33. > :36:37.would have put something in place if I knew it was a rioting night, I
:36:37. > :36:41.would have opened up the youth club and say come on and talk about it.
:36:41. > :36:46.How does he see the problems of young people in the area? 70% of
:36:46. > :36:50.the kids I work with on daily basis they have no aspirations, they are
:36:50. > :36:57.saying what is there out there. You have told me there weren't nothing
:36:57. > :37:02.out there when you were 21, you are now 34, what is out there for me 21
:37:02. > :37:07.years on, it is upsetting. If they feel no-one listens to us, we are
:37:07. > :37:12.not valued, we haven't any hope for a different life, some of those
:37:12. > :37:15.people will be engaging in criminal activity, not to condone it, but
:37:15. > :37:19.understand what it is about. They see greed taking place in other
:37:19. > :37:22.parts of our society, in all the different strata of our society,
:37:22. > :37:28.they see people getting away with that, there is something here about
:37:28. > :37:33.saying what about me, don't I get some as well. What happened here?
:37:33. > :37:39.There seemed to be many reasons. Copy cat rioting, boredom, despair
:37:39. > :37:44.at lack of opportunities, and just plain greed. The unemployment
:37:44. > :37:47.figures revealed today the number of women out of work has hit levels
:37:47. > :37:51.not seen in 23 years. How can females improve chances of
:37:51. > :37:55.employment. A controversial new book by a senior research fellow at
:37:55. > :37:59.the London School of Economics argues that the fairer sex is
:37:59. > :38:04.missing a trick. Catherine Hakim argues that women have something
:38:04. > :38:10.called "erotic capital" and they should use it to get on in the work
:38:10. > :38:16.place. She cites Carla Bruni and Christine Lagarde as all luring
:38:16. > :38:20.mistresses of "erotic capital", she also says in today's culture women
:38:20. > :38:26.should be less squeamish about selling themselves. We think this
:38:26. > :38:33.is what she might have in mind. # Because you're gorgeous
:38:33. > :38:38.# I'd do anything for you # Because you're gorgeous
:38:38. > :38:46.Managers I know you'll get me through
:38:46. > :38:56.# You said my clothes were sexy # You tore away my shirt
:38:56. > :39:03.
:39:03. > :39:09.# Because you're gorgeous # I'd do anything for you.
:39:09. > :39:14.Margaret came to the leadership of the party, and primeship, by being
:39:14. > :39:19.a sweet little blonde lady batting her eyelashes with big floppy bow,
:39:19. > :39:23.how feminine can you get, you never ever saw her in trouser, even that
:39:23. > :39:33.connoisseur of women, Alan Clarke said, that Margaret Thatcher had
:39:33. > :39:41.
:39:41. > :39:45.good legs. It wasn't the whole The exponent of this theory, Dr
:39:45. > :39:49.Catherine Hakim is here, along with the writer, Laurine Penny. You are
:39:49. > :39:54.suggesting there is human capital, social capital, employment capital
:39:54. > :39:57.and erotic capital. You seem to be saying there is a male sex deficit,
:39:57. > :40:02.men don't get enough sex and therefore, women should exploit
:40:02. > :40:06.that to get on. Really what I'm saying is men and women benefit
:40:06. > :40:10.from erotic capital, in fact the research results show that men seem
:40:10. > :40:15.to be getting a higher return on their erotic capital than women. So
:40:15. > :40:18.maybe women have a little bit of catching up to do. What you are
:40:18. > :40:24.suggesting is women should make the most of themselves? Men and women
:40:24. > :40:29.should make the most of themselves. Like what? First of all it is
:40:29. > :40:34.important to define erotic capital, and what my book says is that
:40:34. > :40:40.social and physical attractiveness is important in all areas of life,
:40:40. > :40:44.and gives people an advantage in all social situations. If you
:40:44. > :40:47.understand erotic capital and the power it gives you in social
:40:47. > :40:51.situations you will be more successful in the work place, in
:40:51. > :40:55.friendships and the politics of private life. But what you are
:40:55. > :40:59.seeing primarily dealing with women here, is erotic capital gets women
:40:59. > :41:03.on, and women who are erotic in whatever way that is are more
:41:03. > :41:06.likely to do well in the work place and should exploit it, and the
:41:06. > :41:11.problems in the work place are nothing to do with discrimination
:41:11. > :41:16.and sexism and whatever, it is just women don't come on properly?
:41:16. > :41:21.don't say in any place in the book that it is not about sex
:41:21. > :41:25.discrimination, that that doesn't exist. I'm simply saying that
:41:25. > :41:30.erotic capital is one of the personal assets, for men, as well
:41:30. > :41:38.as women, that has been overlooked in all writing so far, and we need
:41:38. > :41:41.to now focus on. Reading this book, and listening to
:41:41. > :41:46.this talk about erotic capital really makes me very sad, because,
:41:46. > :41:50.yes, you should make the most of yourself, it sounds very obvious,
:41:50. > :41:56.saying, this is the way the world is, you can't change it, women are
:41:56. > :42:03.judged on their appearance, that is the way it is. I like to this isn't
:42:04. > :42:08.the best of all worlds, we can't change it, but it just takes a bit
:42:08. > :42:13.of imagination. 100 years ago Dr Hack wouldn't be able to go and
:42:13. > :42:16.study for a PhD, stating the obvious in the book, it seems to
:42:16. > :42:21.say that the world can never change and women can only be judged on
:42:21. > :42:25.their appearance. That is not good enough, we need to say more to
:42:25. > :42:28.women. You say it is an advantage to man, men have the most
:42:28. > :42:33.advantages in terms of being more attractive, and that is the fault
:42:33. > :42:38.of radical feminists, that is what you say? I don't say that, I simply
:42:39. > :42:42.say the research evidence is that people with, who are socially and
:42:42. > :42:47.physically attractive earn something like 10-20% more than
:42:48. > :42:55.people who are unattractive. I'm simply saying that feminists have
:42:55. > :42:59.been reluctant to accept that it can be an advantage and a benefit,
:42:59. > :43:04.that's just being said this evening. If women have this erotic capital,
:43:04. > :43:07.why don't they benefit from it then? I'm saying women haven't
:43:07. > :43:11.benefited as much as begin are benefiting, there seems to be a bit
:43:11. > :43:17.of catching up to do. In other words there is sex discrimination
:43:17. > :43:22.going on here, but it is a kind not many people have recognised,
:43:22. > :43:25.because nobody has wanted to recognise the importance of erotic
:43:26. > :43:30.capital as a personal asset in all roles of life. It is not just the
:43:30. > :43:35.labour market, it is friendships, private life, getting on, and
:43:35. > :43:39.making life easier for you in all sorts of contexts. What Catherine
:43:39. > :43:43.Hakim is also saying, is part of the whole story about erotic
:43:43. > :43:48.capital is the sex industry. And that actually it would be a much
:43:48. > :43:51.better way and much fairer way to run society, and women would be
:43:51. > :43:57.advantaged, if they decriminalised sex workers and women were allowed
:43:57. > :44:02.to charge for sex, because men understand that? Well, all this
:44:02. > :44:06.talking about sex work and the sex industry, and erotic capital as a
:44:06. > :44:09.way of measuring relationships, it is a very mercenary way of talking
:44:09. > :44:13.about relationships between people. What really strikes me most about
:44:14. > :44:18.this book in this argument is it is very, very inhuman. It is talking
:44:18. > :44:21.about human relationships as a species of returns and marketing.
:44:21. > :44:25.Isn't that the case, isn't it the case that people are quite
:44:25. > :44:29.mercenary and calculating when it comes to relationships? No, I think
:44:29. > :44:33.you can think a lot better things of people, people are also very
:44:33. > :44:38.loving, it is possible to be decent to one another without seeing life
:44:38. > :44:42.as a constant market and selling yourself, it is a sad view of the
:44:42. > :44:46.world. Do you think you should sell yourself all the time? Economists
:44:46. > :44:51.point out anything that is scarce has value, and attractiveness,
:44:51. > :44:56.social and physical attractiveness, charm, being able to get on well
:44:56. > :44:59.with people, as well as beauty, as well as sex appeal, all of these
:45:00. > :45:04.things have scarcity value and therefore, as a result. You believe
:45:04. > :45:06.women should be allowed to sell themselves for sex without any
:45:06. > :45:11.criminality and men should be encouraged to buy, that because
:45:11. > :45:16.that is what women should pride themselves in that? I didn't say
:45:16. > :45:19.that, my book says explicitly that the sex industry should be neither