:00:07. > :00:11.If the Government gets its way, it is going to become a lot more
:00:11. > :00:15.difficult to say no when developers decide they want to build on the
:00:15. > :00:20.countryside. Is it change in the planning laws way to national
:00:20. > :00:23.prosperity, jobs and happiness, or a way to splatter car bungles all
:00:23. > :00:27.over the face of a much loved countryside. The plan to let
:00:27. > :00:30.builders loose on the land has set the Conservatives against
:00:30. > :00:33.conservationist, and cast Liberal Democrats as enemies of local
:00:33. > :00:37.democracy. Is the coalition planning for the future or selling
:00:37. > :00:44.out to commercial vandals. The chairman of the national Trust is
:00:44. > :00:49.here to sort out the planning minister. Gaddafi remains defiant
:00:49. > :00:52.as NATO bombs his remaining strongholds in Libya. And the
:00:52. > :00:55.National Transitional Council goes to Paris to be anointed by world
:00:55. > :01:00.leaders. We pay tribute to your bravery, and to the many who have
:01:00. > :01:06.lost their lives, or have been injured. But as has been said, the
:01:06. > :01:13.struggle is not yet over. And how, ten years after September
:01:13. > :01:20.1th, the toxic dust from the Twin Towers ensures killing and sicks
:01:20. > :01:30.goes on. One morning he didn't go round, I went up to check on him,
:01:30. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :01:34.and I found him dead on the floor. This country is crawling is
:01:34. > :01:38.hysterical, nihilistic people, according to the coalition
:01:38. > :01:43.Government, they include the members of the National Trust,
:01:43. > :01:48.Friends of the Earth, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds,
:01:48. > :01:52.and the Bat Conservation Trust, these deranged organisations, are
:01:52. > :01:55.furious at plans by the Government to allow concrete to be laid in the
:01:55. > :01:59.countryside. The coalition propose that is the plan authority, should
:01:59. > :02:07.in future, abandon the principles of the last 60 years, and be biased
:02:07. > :02:13.in favour of developers. First we report from Gloucestershire.
:02:13. > :02:20.This is Slad Valley in Gloucestershire, which inspired the
:02:20. > :02:23.classic book Cider with Rosy, by Laurie Lee, now it is at the centre
:02:23. > :02:27.of planning dispute with implications for the entire country.
:02:27. > :02:31.It is about four dozen houses that could go up on these fields on the
:02:31. > :02:37.one hand, but on the other, it is who makes weather in terms of
:02:37. > :02:46.planning, local politicians or property developers. The bucolic
:02:46. > :02:51.Slad Valley has become a test case, you could call it "Decider with
:02:51. > :02:59.Rosy". Newsnight met some of the locals, who are resisting plans by
:02:59. > :03:03.Barrett Homes to built 48 hourss in the valley. It is an area of
:03:03. > :03:07.outstanding - - 48 houses in the valley. It is an area of
:03:07. > :03:13.outstanding beauty, it is a haven for wildlife, apart from a beauty
:03:13. > :03:23.spot that attracts tourists and visitors to the area. The planning
:03:23. > :03:28.
:03:28. > :03:33.minister says people like you are exhibiting a nihilistic character.
:03:33. > :03:37.In my great grandfather's day, for 20 years it was all I knew of the
:03:37. > :03:42.world. Part of the charm of this world was it seemed untouched by
:03:42. > :03:46.modernity, but developers hope to go construct rather more than cart
:03:46. > :03:49.track in places like this, are making plans against the back drop
:03:49. > :03:57.of a new Government document, released just a few days ago. Which
:03:57. > :04:03.says there should be a: The local council which has a
:04:03. > :04:06.Conservative majority of one, has rejected the proposals from
:04:06. > :04:09.Barretts Homes, one member of the authority said ministers hadn't
:04:09. > :04:13.explained the new planning dispensation. This may not be what
:04:13. > :04:17.they are intending to do to alarm people, but they need to come and
:04:17. > :04:22.make things much clearer. If they are not intending, I think a lot of
:04:22. > :04:26.people think they are just going to intend to swamp people with a lot
:04:26. > :04:30.of housing. If this isn't their intention, and I don't think it is,
:04:30. > :04:34.they need to make it clearer. are doing bad job of selling a
:04:34. > :04:38.policy? Yes, I suppose so, really. Barbara Tait isn't the only one
:04:39. > :04:46.with a long face. Many other Tories, and Liberal Democrats, are thought
:04:46. > :04:48.to be uneasy about the proposed changes to planning. And an
:04:48. > :04:52.unprecedented alliance of conservation groups and
:04:52. > :05:00.environmental groups are lining up against them. But many say more new
:05:00. > :05:03.houses are badly needed. Most experts reckon we need between
:05:03. > :05:09.perhaps 250,000-350,000 new homes in Britain if we are to meet
:05:09. > :05:14.housing needs, we are way off that. We think the planning plans are
:05:14. > :05:18.part of the measures needed to address the housing shortage, and
:05:18. > :05:24.ensure everyone gets a decent home. A shortage of housing stock was
:05:24. > :05:34.alsos cited by Barrett Homes, for their so far frustrated plans for
:05:34. > :05:50.
:05:50. > :05:53.It doesn't hurt the objectors' case that they a invoke the name of
:05:53. > :05:59.Laurie Lee, the great countryman, it is not hard to know which side
:05:59. > :06:03.he would be on. But concrete on his beloved valley, that would be like
:06:03. > :06:09.taking pesticides to Wordsworth's Lake District. This stained glass
:06:09. > :06:12.window, in celebration of Lee and his writing, will be dedicated at
:06:12. > :06:19.his former parish church later this month. For now it won't be rattling
:06:19. > :06:27.in its putty, as trucks and JCBs go down the valley. But the builders
:06:27. > :06:32.eying Le, he's own home, are appealing the council's decision, -
:06:33. > :06:38.Le, he's own home are appealing the council's decision. There is a lot
:06:38. > :06:43.at stake inside the Rosy's country, the apple of a developer's eye.
:06:43. > :06:48.With us to discuss this is the plan minister, Greg Clark and Simon
:06:48. > :06:50.Jenkins, chairman of the National Trust, one of the organisations
:06:50. > :06:54.campaigning against the Government's proposals. You say you
:06:54. > :06:57.want to consult, if the vast majority of people with whom you
:06:57. > :07:00.consult say there should not be a presumption in favour of the
:07:00. > :07:04.developer, are you prepared to abandon that? Of course we will
:07:04. > :07:08.listen to all the voices. We have been clear for a long time we think
:07:08. > :07:16.it is important to simplify the planning system. My question was
:07:16. > :07:19.whether you would listen, if the majority of people said you should
:07:20. > :07:22.bane done the presumption in favour of the developer, you will drop it?
:07:22. > :07:26.I'm not giving the answer before the consultation. We don't know
:07:27. > :07:32.what the consultation will tell you, I'm interested to see how serious
:07:32. > :07:36.you are taking it? It is important to simplify the planning process,
:07:36. > :07:39.and have this presumption, how the presumption is expressed is an
:07:39. > :07:44.important aspect, and we will take views on that. What is important,
:07:44. > :07:48.and from your package there, is the land there would not be affected by
:07:48. > :07:54.these proposals f it is protected landscape it would continue to be.
:07:54. > :08:00.When you start using words like "nihilistic selfishness", or Vince
:08:00. > :08:05.Cable talks about people being "semi-hysterical", what is the
:08:05. > :08:10.reason or excuse for that sort of extreme language against people who
:08:10. > :08:14.merely care what the countryside looks like? That was a quote from a
:08:14. > :08:16.paper that quoted me saying quite the opposite, for people to say we
:08:16. > :08:23.should have no development whatsoever, not to build the houses
:08:23. > :08:27.we need for the future, in my experience, doesn't happen. To that
:08:27. > :08:30.would-be selfish, and nihilisticically so if it happened,
:08:30. > :08:35.my experience is most communities recognise the needs of the future.
:08:35. > :08:39.You found this in your book, The English People. You recognised, I
:08:39. > :08:43.seem to remember, when it came to parish council, that people who
:08:43. > :08:48.lived in villages do care about the future, want to keep their pubs
:08:48. > :08:50.alive and their families housed. How long has it been the policy of
:08:50. > :09:00.the National Trust to oppose development and greater prosperity
:09:00. > :09:05.
:09:05. > :09:11.for people? This is not about growth. There is a chronic shortage
:09:11. > :09:18.for rural land at the moment, nor is it about housing, there are a
:09:18. > :09:20.third of a million houses waiting to be built. There is no shortage
:09:20. > :09:26.of brownfield sites. National Trust is in favour of development, we do
:09:26. > :09:30.a certain amount of it ourselves. The issue here is the nature of the
:09:30. > :09:33.release of countryside in 65% of Britain, that is still ordinary
:09:34. > :09:38.countryside, unprotected, and it is now highly vulnerable under this
:09:38. > :09:41.plan. I am afraid the truth of the matter is, this plan is not
:09:41. > :09:43.Government legislation. This is one of those case where is a group of
:09:43. > :09:48.lobbies have got away with murder and they are laughing all over
:09:48. > :09:53.their face at the moment. Why have you chosen to conduct this so-
:09:53. > :09:56.called consultation in the dog days of summer and ending just about the
:09:56. > :09:59.time parliament resumes its proper business? That is very long
:09:59. > :10:03.standing commitment, we published a green paper 18 months ago in
:10:03. > :10:06.opposition. We put a call for evidence out in January of this
:10:06. > :10:10.year. We have got a three month consultation, I have asked the
:10:10. > :10:14.select committee in parliament to scrutinise it. It is not going to
:10:14. > :10:20.be adopted until next year. So there is a lot of time. Did you
:10:20. > :10:22.write this document? Did you write it Greg? Of course I did, yes.
:10:23. > :10:27.There are 360 references to business development in planning
:10:27. > :10:29.law, there are four references to the countryside. It is the most
:10:29. > :10:33.biased document I have ever seen. It is not planning document, it is
:10:33. > :10:37.a lobbying document. That is not true, if you read it in detail.
:10:38. > :10:43.has read it in detail, he has given you a word count. I invite viewers
:10:43. > :10:47.to look at it. You will see the protection for the green belt is
:10:47. > :10:52.there. I'm not a nihilistic person, we are in favour of simplification,
:10:52. > :10:55.the planning laws were often ludicrously diligent, no question
:10:55. > :10:58.about that. A lot of land can be taken up for development no,
:10:58. > :11:02.question about that. What is extraordinary about the document,
:11:03. > :11:06.is the document might have been written by the British Property
:11:06. > :11:10.Federation, and I rather suspect it was, they are laughing all over
:11:10. > :11:14.their faces, they can't believe their luck. You have written a dud
:11:14. > :11:17.document, it badly needs redrafting? The document was put
:11:17. > :11:21.forward in response to the consultation that we made through
:11:21. > :11:24.the call to evidence, and actually we had contributions from
:11:24. > :11:28.environmentalist, from people interested in historic environment,
:11:28. > :11:31.from people in social housing. We had a spokesman earlier. The
:11:31. > :11:37.planning system brings together all of these different groups, these
:11:37. > :11:42.people who depend on the planning system functioning. We agree that
:11:42. > :11:46.the planning system has become lost in translation. It has become
:11:46. > :11:50.excessively long and complex. I think we can agree it nids to be
:11:50. > :11:55.simplified. I look forward to the response of this consultation, to
:11:55. > :12:02.have a forensic look, if you are taking 1300 pages to 52 I'm sure
:12:02. > :12:06.not every sentence is expressed with the clarity that it might be.
:12:06. > :12:10.I have great respect for the National Trust and will take
:12:10. > :12:16.seriously these contributions. is at the moment unacceptable, it
:12:16. > :12:20.will be a license to every Swampy, every lawyer, every shouter, there
:12:20. > :12:25.will be one row after another about this. It is because it is the badly
:12:25. > :12:28.drafted piece of law. The planning bar at the moment can't believe
:12:28. > :12:32.their luck. All this is because you have produced a dud document. I
:12:32. > :12:36.would love it to be a good document. But please, please, take the
:12:36. > :12:39.consultation seriously. I do take the consultation seriously. But the
:12:39. > :12:42.context of this is this is giving power to local communities.
:12:42. > :12:45.have refused the opportunity to say whether you will change your mind
:12:46. > :12:52.on the basis of the consultation, how can you possibly be taking it
:12:52. > :12:55.seriously? I do take the responses seriously, we will look at them
:12:55. > :13:00.carefully. You have declined to say you will change your mind on the
:13:00. > :13:02.basis of what you have been told? What been told by the social
:13:02. > :13:06.housing providers, and people who have represented the countryside,
:13:06. > :13:12.such as the farmers and the country land association, that this is
:13:12. > :13:15.crucial for the rural environment. So of course we will consider these
:13:15. > :13:19.views. All the people want development, the development they
:13:19. > :13:21.want is housing or warehouses or supermarkets. The only lobbies you
:13:22. > :13:25.found on your side are the people who want development, including
:13:25. > :13:30.farmers, I may say. What is extraordinary, I love the localism
:13:30. > :13:34.bit in the Localism Bill, it is good stuff, you ruin it in the
:13:34. > :13:38.planning framework, by saying, in effect, if a developers wants
:13:38. > :13:42.something, and a local community doesn't want it, the developer will
:13:42. > :13:46.win. That is not true. It gets rid of the imposition from above and
:13:46. > :13:49.gives the final say to local communities. Why do you refer to
:13:49. > :13:53.Government planning policy constantly throughout the document.
:13:53. > :13:59.Government planning policy is pro- development. Because this is a
:13:59. > :14:02.statement of national policies that sets out protection for the green
:14:02. > :14:06.belt. Have you thought there might be something wrong about a policy
:14:06. > :14:14.that manages to incite the detestation of the National Trust,
:14:14. > :14:18.the Woodland Trust, the mammal - mammal Society, the Open Spaces
:14:18. > :14:21.Society, the Bat Conservation Trust. Has it occurred to you you might be
:14:21. > :14:24.wrong? I think they are reading more into it than they should. The
:14:25. > :14:29.protections that are there, for the environment we all love and cherish
:14:29. > :14:33.are very strong. I look forward to sitting down and going through it
:14:33. > :14:37.in detail. You yourself don't even believe t when it comes to your own
:14:37. > :14:43.backyard you don't believe in building over the countryside. We
:14:43. > :14:48.know you think where at all possible all developments should be
:14:48. > :14:52.on brownfield sites? That is what you said in 2008? Of course
:14:52. > :14:56.communities will want to bring in brownfield sites. When there was
:14:56. > :15:00.proposals in your constituency, you said where possible developments
:15:00. > :15:05.should be on post industrial and brownfield sites. He did say that.
:15:05. > :15:10.It has been ended. Mew view is these decisions should be taken by
:15:10. > :15:14.local communities, I think local communities will want to bring into
:15:14. > :15:18.use derelict land, first, we shouldn't impose from above
:15:18. > :15:24.requirements. If they wanted to, this is something I have fought for
:15:24. > :15:27.in my constituency over many years, if they want the leafy aspect of a
:15:27. > :15:32.town and preserve gardens in towns and rather make a choice to bring
:15:32. > :15:36.into use a piece of land that might be at the edge of town by a roadway,
:15:36. > :15:41.in order to keep leafy gardens within the towns, that should be
:15:41. > :15:46.something open to that community. Why have you ended the presumption
:15:46. > :15:50.in favour of developing existing derelict sites. The previous
:15:50. > :15:55.presumption in favour of housing and development going on to what is
:15:55. > :15:59.called brownfield sites, which are more derelict and empty sites than
:15:59. > :16:04.ever before in Britain because of recession, that is ended. There is
:16:04. > :16:07.a clear expectation that council should bring back into use derelict
:16:07. > :16:12.sites. Colonel Gaddafi is still at large tonight, and a little earlier
:16:12. > :16:17.tonight popped up again, as he does, talking about setting Libya ablaze.
:16:17. > :16:22.He spent the 42nd anniversary of his coup somewhere in hiding.
:16:22. > :16:28.TRANSLATION: I tack them with rifles, with bullets - attack them
:16:28. > :16:34.with rifles, with bullets, let them speak, let it be a long battle. We
:16:34. > :16:38.will fight from place to place, from city to city, from mountain to
:16:38. > :16:43.mountain, let us shout at them they can't rule the Libyan people. Let
:16:43. > :16:49.it be a long trial until the victory. While the colonel was in
:16:49. > :16:53.full flow, the Friends of Libya, as they are officially known, were
:16:53. > :16:56.gathering in Paris to meet the heads of the revolution that has
:16:56. > :16:59.unseated him. 60 nations recognise the National Transitional Council
:16:59. > :17:02.as the Government of Libya. Everyone from America to the
:17:02. > :17:04.Palestinian Authority, including the newest member of this club,
:17:04. > :17:08.Russia, who announced their membership today. Even the Chinese,
:17:08. > :17:14.who once thought that no-one had any business protecting Libyans
:17:14. > :17:21.from that nice Mr Gaddafi. The meeting was about to - how to
:17:21. > :17:26.rebuild the country, of which all now claim to be sponsors.
:17:26. > :17:29.David Cameron said tonight the early signs from Libya are
:17:29. > :17:33.incredibly impressive, he said that NATO operations will continue as
:17:33. > :17:37.long as they are needed, and those who have committed what he called
:17:37. > :17:42.unspeakable crimes will be brought to justice. His overriteding theme
:17:42. > :17:46.is that Libya will - overriding theme is that Libya will not become
:17:46. > :17:50.another Iraq, and that the NATO intervention, the military campaign,
:17:50. > :17:54.the bombing by Britain and France, has been fully vindicated. Last
:17:54. > :17:59.time we met here in Paris, Gaddafi's tanks were at the gates
:17:59. > :18:05.of Benghazi, and Gaddafi was openly vowing to hunt down and kill his
:18:05. > :18:11.own people, as he called it, like rats. Massacre loomed. Five months
:18:11. > :18:17.later, the Libyan people have taken their country back. Taking their
:18:17. > :18:22.country back, but offer 4 years, what will they do with it after 42
:18:22. > :18:25.years, what will they do with it. This conference is supposed to be
:18:25. > :18:27.all about securing the peace and securing that future, that might be
:18:27. > :18:33.more tricky than ousting Colonel Gaddafi.
:18:33. > :18:40.They rolled up in their grand cars, each nation flying its own flag,
:18:40. > :18:43.making its presence clear. 13 heads of state, 19 premiers, and
:18:43. > :18:49.ministers and diplomats by the score. These are the Friends of
:18:49. > :18:54.Libya, turning a page in the day's favoured phrase "opening a chapter,
:18:54. > :18:57.and hoping for the best". This is the day the new leaders of Libya
:18:57. > :19:00.introduced themselves to a wider world. A world where everyone seems
:19:00. > :19:03.to have their own reasons for casting themselves as friends of
:19:03. > :19:09.Libya, a world in which the new leaders of Libya, need all the
:19:09. > :19:16.friend they can get. - all the friends they can get.
:19:16. > :19:21.This is a North African born academic, who has lectured on Libya
:19:21. > :19:28.politics in Europe and the US. He has watched the discussions here in
:19:28. > :19:35.Paris, when they have yet to enter their own capital, Tripoli.
:19:35. > :19:40.They don't have any legitimacy, they were not elected. It is so
:19:40. > :19:45.Arabic. Why do you say it is so Arabic? Because for them it is
:19:45. > :19:50.always running for the support of the western countries. And in a
:19:50. > :19:53.certain way, in my vue, there was a complicity of western countries -
:19:53. > :19:58.view, there was a complicity of western countries, about what
:19:58. > :20:06.happened for 50 years in this area. Without the support of the western
:20:06. > :20:13.countries, they never can stay for 42 years. History has to be buried
:20:13. > :20:17.as well? Of course. The RAF were in action yesterday, their bombs and
:20:17. > :20:21.flares assisting the anti-Gaddafi forces. In France, President
:20:21. > :20:27.Sarkozy, is hoping the success of the Libyan mission, will also help
:20:27. > :20:32.his election campaign. Even some of his oppont ponnents believe his
:20:32. > :20:36.motivation - opponents believe his motivation goes beyond that, recent
:20:36. > :20:42.history recalls the war in the Balkans. What did not happen in
:20:42. > :20:50.time in Bosnia, when the city of Srebrenica, was emptied of its male
:20:50. > :20:53.inhabitants, who were subsequently destroyed, when faced with a
:20:53. > :20:59.similar contingency in Benghazi, when Gaddafi promised to chase the
:20:59. > :21:03.rebels like rats in the city, there was the opportunity to demonstrate
:21:03. > :21:09.that what the previous generation had gotten wrong, this generation
:21:09. > :21:12.was going to get right. Indeed tonight, President Sarkozy spoke of
:21:12. > :21:17.what he considered the great success of the Libyan intervention,
:21:17. > :21:21.with the horrors of what happened in Yugoslavia. TRANSLATION: What we
:21:21. > :21:28.wanted to see was a policy backed and authorised by the United
:21:28. > :21:34.Nations, which puts military might at the service of protecting
:21:34. > :21:40.civilians populations likely to be massacred and martyred by their own
:21:40. > :21:45.leadership. There have been tens of thousands of lives that have been
:21:45. > :21:49.spared in Libya, thanks to this intervention.
:21:49. > :21:55.In the Megreb itself there is apprehension about what has
:21:55. > :21:58.happened in Libya. In these uncertain days they are seeking
:21:58. > :22:04.guarantees, assurances, that the fighting will stop at the borders.
:22:04. > :22:14.They have to give some assurance to the neighbour, Tunisia, Al Goreia,
:22:14. > :22:18.
:22:18. > :22:26.Egypt, that this destablisation is not going to spread around them.
:22:26. > :22:31.Especially in Algeria. The risk exists. You never know, but there
:22:31. > :22:39.are 150 tribes in Lybia, it is not nation. What unites all Libyans
:22:39. > :22:44.today is need. The first �140 million of Libyan bank notes was
:22:44. > :22:48.flown in from the printing plant in the UK. It was Libya's own cash
:22:48. > :22:52.frozen by sanctions. There is billions more where that came from,
:22:52. > :22:55.and it can't arrive quickly enough. That sense of urgency was reflected
:22:55. > :23:00.in the comments of the UN Secretary-General in Paris tonight.
:23:00. > :23:09.The immediate challenge for us, for the international community, is how
:23:09. > :23:14.to address humanitarian challenges. Roughly 860,000 people have left
:23:14. > :23:20.the country since February, including skilled workers. Medicine,
:23:20. > :23:27.food, and particularly water, are in short supply. There is a major
:23:27. > :23:33.crisis on this matter. How confident are they that what
:23:33. > :23:37.was agreed today will stick? think everybody knows that there
:23:37. > :23:40.are potentially very serious divisions here. President Sarkozy
:23:40. > :23:43.was asked with David Cameron, why he and his friend, Dave from
:23:43. > :23:46.Downing Street, hadn't actually gone to trip trim themselves. They
:23:46. > :23:50.tried to laugh it off - Tripoli themselves. And they tried to laugh
:23:50. > :23:52.it off and say they will go when they are invited by the
:23:52. > :23:56.transitional council will invite them. Nobody mentioned that the
:23:56. > :24:00.people from that council themselves had yet to venture into their own
:24:00. > :24:08.capital city. This is tricky. are events going down in Libya
:24:08. > :24:12.tonight itself. We're in Benghazi. What's the word? Well, obviously
:24:12. > :24:15.most people here in Benghazi are delighted by the symbolic aspect of
:24:16. > :24:20.this conference, and maybe that is the most important aspect, the
:24:20. > :24:23.welcoming of Libya's new leadership into the international community.
:24:23. > :24:27.Beyond that, a senior figure in the National Transitional Council this
:24:27. > :24:33.evening gave me a long and very interesting list of what he thinks,
:24:33. > :24:39.and what the council thinks, Libya needs first in terms of practical
:24:39. > :24:42.help. He talked first of all about administrative and technical help
:24:42. > :24:46.getting the economy and the oil industry going again. They think
:24:46. > :24:50.that can be done within three months. Help in training the police,
:24:50. > :24:53.because although the new Libya has firmly rejected the offer of
:24:53. > :24:58.foreign boots on the ground, it is very worried about law and order.
:24:58. > :25:02.It is worried that police are only capable at the moment of serving a
:25:02. > :25:07.dictatorship, not a democracy interestingly, he also talked about
:25:07. > :25:12.help in recording human rights abuse, because they are convinced
:25:12. > :25:16.they will find more mass graves of Gaddafi victims. That said, and
:25:16. > :25:20.that's already sounding part of what would be a colossal task in
:25:20. > :25:23.rebuilding, it is important to say that Libya does have some
:25:23. > :25:28.considerable advantages compared to some other post conflict countries,
:25:28. > :25:34.not only the oil industry, but also a very sizeable and educated
:25:34. > :25:38.middle-class and many people, as Ban Ki-Moon referred to, gone away,
:25:38. > :25:48.but many coming back, skilled emgreys, and want to go serve the
:25:48. > :25:53.
:25:53. > :25:58.country again. We're joined by Ban Ki-Moon's adviser responsible for
:25:58. > :26:05.the conflict in Libya. I gather you are off to Libya? I hope to be in
:26:05. > :26:08.Tripoli on Saturday. What is your job there? This first visit will be
:26:08. > :26:11.to continue discussion that is we have been having with the National
:26:11. > :26:17.Transitional Council about exactly what role they want the United
:26:17. > :26:23.Nations to play. Secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon, and those of us on his
:26:23. > :26:27.delegation, had that discussion here today in Paris, with Chairman
:26:27. > :26:34.Jalisco, and Dr Jibril, that followed on earlier discussions I
:26:34. > :26:43.had. We want to be sure whatever the UN does corresponds to Libyan
:26:43. > :26:47.wishes, and needs as we understand them on the ground.
:26:47. > :26:53.How strange is it that the National Transitional Council is anointed in
:26:53. > :26:56.France but failing to set foot on the ground in Tripoli? Several
:26:56. > :27:00.members of the National Transitional Council are in Tripoli,
:27:00. > :27:04.and have been for some time, including a deputy Prime Minister
:27:04. > :27:08.and other ministers of the council. But I'm not sure exactly what the
:27:08. > :27:14.latest plans are for the top leaders of the National
:27:14. > :27:19.Transitional Council to go there. When they do they will start a
:27:19. > :27:24.process in which they have already made some time-bound commitments,
:27:24. > :27:28.as to when elections will take place. And one of the issues they
:27:28. > :27:33.have made most clear today and previously, is they are looking to
:27:33. > :27:39.the United Nations for support, is in the unfolding of an electoral
:27:39. > :27:43.process, a process in which constitutions will be adopted and
:27:43. > :27:46.endorsed by a referendum. You may have heard this in private
:27:47. > :27:49.conversation, but it wasn't public today, this question of the eight-
:27:49. > :27:55.month timetable before the re- elections, that didn't seemed to be
:27:55. > :27:59.mentioned today. Was it privately, are they still sticking to that?
:27:59. > :28:06.didn't discuss the timing, but the National Transitional Council,
:28:06. > :28:16.there is in writing, they have adopted a covenant that it has been
:28:16. > :28:17.
:28:17. > :28:20.their intention to prom mull gate an interim constitution on the
:28:21. > :28:30.formal day of declaration as they put it. What will be the main task
:28:31. > :28:31.
:28:31. > :28:35.for the UN in Libya? Electoral support is one of them, also
:28:35. > :28:39.transitional justice, the difficult balance they will have to strike,
:28:39. > :28:44.between accountability within the law for the most serious human
:28:44. > :28:47.rights violations, compensation to victims, but on the other hand the
:28:47. > :28:53.need for national reconciliation, and more broadly, the kind of human
:28:53. > :28:58.rights and rule of law area. Then, of course, there is a huge agenda
:28:58. > :29:04.of economic recovery. Today there were many offers of assistance
:29:04. > :29:07.around the table in Paris. But both the major international actors, and
:29:07. > :29:11.the Libyans themselves, have made clear that they want the United
:29:11. > :29:16.Nations to take the lead in co- ordinating that. Co-ordination is
:29:16. > :29:21.really very important in a post- conflict situation. We probably
:29:21. > :29:24.have more mistakes than positive experiences to learn from in recent
:29:24. > :29:31.post-conflict context. You are confident, are you, that they have
:29:31. > :29:35.a coherent plan that they will stick to? They certainly have plan.
:29:35. > :29:40.One can't say that is not going to be subject to further discussion.
:29:40. > :29:43.Because indeed one of the first things that they are committed to
:29:43. > :29:49.is expanding the base of the National Transitional Council
:29:49. > :29:53.itself. Which will serve as the sort of first body designating
:29:53. > :29:56.within 30 days an interim Government. And they themselves are
:29:56. > :30:04.saying, and everybody in the international community is saying,
:30:04. > :30:07.it is extremely important that council is as inclusive as possible
:30:07. > :30:12.of different sections of Libyan society. So I think there are some
:30:13. > :30:17.decisions to be made there, first. In the meantime, they have,
:30:17. > :30:24.effectively, to rebuild the entire apparatus of Government, haven't
:30:24. > :30:30.they? I wouldn't go so far as that. They are very clear that one lesson
:30:30. > :30:35.they have learned from Iraq, or reject any general comparisons with
:30:35. > :30:39.Iraq, is the mistake that is made if you do try to disband, wholesale,
:30:40. > :30:43.existing institutions. Whether it is the security forces, or the
:30:43. > :30:47.public administration. So I don't think they intend to do that. But
:30:47. > :30:53.the problem is, although there was some institutions in Libya, the
:30:53. > :30:56.national oil company, the Central Bank, that were run by extremely
:30:56. > :31:06.competent technocrats, loot of the other institutions of an
:31:06. > :31:08.
:31:08. > :31:13.accountable democratic state have run efficiently. That applies to
:31:13. > :31:19.elections, there is no living memory of elections in Libya.
:31:19. > :31:25.Next week we will see the 10th anniversary when out of the clear
:31:25. > :31:31.blue sky two airplanes were flown into the world trade centres in New
:31:31. > :31:36.York City. Over 2,000 people perished. The Twin Towers released
:31:36. > :31:41.a cloud of toxic dust that blanketed Lower Manhatten and
:31:41. > :31:45.Brooklyn and New Jersey. Over 18,000 people have received
:31:45. > :31:55.treatment for World Trade Center related illnesses. More fatalities
:31:55. > :32:02.
:32:02. > :32:06.are expected. We report now from New York.
:32:06. > :32:12.A sight that has become the definition of terror. The
:32:12. > :32:17.destruction of the Twin Towers. An onslaught that killed nearly
:32:17. > :32:22.3,000 people. But ten years on, the attack isn't over.
:32:22. > :32:31.The dust that overwhelmed the streets of Lower Manhatten, became
:32:31. > :32:37.a weapon. The clouds contained particles of pulverised concrete.
:32:37. > :32:45.Asbestos, lead from 50,000 computers. Murky from countless
:32:45. > :32:55.light bull - mercury from countless lightbulbs, a poisonous legacy,
:32:55. > :33:04.
:33:04. > :33:11.Jeff Endean is one of those who breathed in that dust. Today he's
:33:11. > :33:19.seeing one of his doctors, Mike Crane, at New York's mountsi nigh
:33:19. > :33:29.hospital. - mountsi nigh Hospital. He has coughing fits like this all
:33:29. > :33:30.
:33:30. > :33:34.the time. A police officer, he was at Ground Zero for three months,
:33:34. > :33:41.first searching for survivors, then clearing up remains. This is a
:33:41. > :33:47.regular check-up. The dust has exacted a heavy price.
:33:47. > :33:52.Jeff used to be highly active, an expert in firearms, his health has
:33:52. > :33:55.collapsed and he's now retired. We first met him and his wife Eileen
:33:55. > :34:04.at their home in New Jersey five years ago.
:34:04. > :34:09.I have scaring on my lungs, plural thickening, some kind of leisons, a
:34:09. > :34:12.reactive airway disease. Today another battery of tests. According
:34:12. > :34:18.to a recent study, emergency responders are suffering from
:34:18. > :34:23.reduced breathing capacity, and they are not getting better. Take a
:34:23. > :34:33.breathe force it out, keep blowing, keep blowing, inhale quickly, take
:34:33. > :34:36.
:34:36. > :34:40.it out of your mouth. Are you OK?
:34:40. > :34:45.Uniform staff, like Jeff, were on the frontline. Police, firemen,
:34:45. > :34:50.medical workers. Here is were the people the world saw battling
:34:50. > :34:56.through the wreckage. But out of sight, beyond the cameras, was an
:34:56. > :35:06.army of people toiling in the dust as well. Telecoms engineers,
:35:06. > :35:06.
:35:06. > :35:11.contractors and cleaners. The latest official US Government
:35:11. > :35:19.figures show that just over 60,000 people are now registered as being
:35:19. > :35:24.at risk from inhaling the dust. Most of them are emergency workers.
:35:24. > :35:33.A staggering 18,462 received medical treatment in the last 12
:35:34. > :35:38.months. A number that's steadily rising. We still have new patients,
:35:38. > :35:41.new bona fide genuine responders, who we have never seen before,
:35:41. > :35:49.never been examined by a programme before, walking in the door every
:35:49. > :35:55.day. We have 100-200 a month coming in. The word "dust ", itself,
:35:55. > :36:03.sounds so innocent. So why exactly was this mixture so hazardous, and
:36:03. > :36:06.why did it trigger such a huge impact. This scene was found in a
:36:06. > :36:11.home close to Ground Zero, thousands of local residents were
:36:11. > :36:18.vulnerable to the dust. The teddy bear was spotted by scientist,
:36:18. > :36:25.loyal loyal loyal, while he was gathering - - by a scientist while
:36:25. > :36:31.he was gathering samples. He and his colleagues examined the dust,
:36:31. > :36:35.it was like nothing they had ever seen before. It was a collection of
:36:35. > :36:40.different materials. Both buildings collapsed, there was cement, in
:36:40. > :36:46.addition there was glass fibres, which basically were due to the
:36:46. > :36:53.disintegration of 110 stories of glass, on each building. On top of
:36:53. > :37:00.that you had residuals from the jet fuel, which basically bathed the
:37:00. > :37:07.dust as both structures fell. mixed in there was a very long list
:37:07. > :37:11.of toxins, asbestos, known to cause lung cancer, dioxins, notorious for
:37:11. > :37:18.damaging the immune system, and dozens of others, like PCB, all
:37:18. > :37:21.dangerous. But how do we know they are to blame? Well, at Mount Sinai
:37:22. > :37:26.Medical Centre in Manhattan, they are seeing growing evidence. This
:37:26. > :37:30.is the largest of the monitoring and treatment programmes. It is
:37:30. > :37:36.where thousands of patients are seen. It is where a link between
:37:36. > :37:41.the dust and their health looks more and more plausible. Even to
:37:41. > :37:46.experts who first doubted it. on I wasn't convinced that we would
:37:46. > :37:52.have chronic disease out of this. In a very short period of time,
:37:52. > :37:57.weeks after 9/11, I was totally convinced. Absolutely and totally
:37:57. > :38:03.convinced, and I remain so today, more so than ever.
:38:03. > :38:13.Overshadowing all of this is a grim question. Whether inhaling the dust
:38:13. > :38:16.
:38:16. > :38:25.We travelled south, out of New York City, to the home of a family with
:38:25. > :38:28.bitter experience of the dust. James was a New York detective, a
:38:29. > :38:34.popular figure, a non-smoker, the winner of numerous police awards
:38:34. > :38:38.and a father. He worked at Ground Zero for more than 400 hours. Soon
:38:38. > :38:46.his health declined dramatically. He became so ill he had to move in
:38:46. > :38:51.with his parents. His father, is a retired police chief. He made sure
:38:51. > :38:57.his son took his medications. But then, one morning, five years ago,
:38:57. > :39:03.Joe went to wake his son. morning he didn't come out. I
:39:03. > :39:10.waited until 9.30, and then he didn't come out. So I went up to
:39:10. > :39:18.check on him. I found him dead on the floor. He was dead on the floor.
:39:18. > :39:28.They took him away, and he was so young. I even said to the police, I
:39:28. > :39:28.
:39:28. > :39:32.said see if you can get an autopsy done on him. They said coroner
:39:32. > :39:36.already said he would do an autopsy. He's not going to sign a death
:39:36. > :39:44.certificate until he does an autopsy, because he was so young,
:39:44. > :39:51.and he wanted to know why he passed away.
:39:51. > :39:57.The funeral, in January 2006, was a turning point. A pathologist
:39:57. > :40:00.concluded that James Zadroga died of a rare lung disease, caused by
:40:00. > :40:05.World Trade Center trust. The first official link between the dust and
:40:05. > :40:12.a loss of life. The finding was disputed, but it also galvanised a
:40:12. > :40:19.campaign for a new law, an act in James Zadroga's gaim name, to help
:40:19. > :40:26.survivors - name, to help survivors. This weighty file is the Zadroga
:40:26. > :40:30.Act, it is pages spelling out who is entitled to help. This doctor is
:40:30. > :40:36.in charge of the file. He accepts that the world centre impact is
:40:36. > :40:41.serious. Undoubtedly - World Trade Center impact is serious.
:40:41. > :40:45.Undoubtedly there are people who have succumbed between the 9/11
:40:45. > :40:49.attack and now. Do you think it is plausible that some people will die
:40:49. > :40:54.of their exposure? Oh yes. I think that it is plausible to think that
:40:54. > :40:57.way. So, yes, people could die of many of these conditions that we
:40:57. > :41:03.have seen associated with the exposures.
:41:03. > :41:07.So, ten years on, there is now, finally, official recognition of
:41:07. > :41:17.the threat. But the fact that it has take be so long, is a source of
:41:17. > :41:18.
:41:18. > :41:22.bitterness. There is a suspicion that the risks of the dust were
:41:22. > :41:29.played down at the time. # God bless America
:41:29. > :41:34.# My home sweet home Just one week after the attacks,
:41:34. > :41:38.the New York Stock Exchange re- opened. A potent symbol of recovery.
:41:38. > :41:48.Office workers, schoolchildren and residents were urged to return. But,
:41:48. > :41:50.
:41:50. > :41:55.was this too soon. The dust was still everywhere. Scientists
:41:55. > :41:59.carried out checks around Ground Zero. And the head of the
:41:59. > :42:04.Environmental Protection Agency declared the air safe to breathe.
:42:04. > :42:09.We're monitoring constantly, we have taken dust samples and, except
:42:09. > :42:14.for one time, one sample, one reading, and that came from dust
:42:14. > :42:19.from a car from the epicentre, we have not seen any reason, any
:42:19. > :42:22.reading that is indicate a health has standard.
:42:22. > :42:26.Christine Todd Whitman has always toad by that statement, saying the
:42:26. > :42:29.finds - stood by that statement, saying the findings on air quality
:42:29. > :42:38.were correct. We asked for an interview, but she declined. We
:42:38. > :42:43.turned to one of her former adviser, were the authorities ignoring the
:42:43. > :42:50.dangers to reopen Manhattan. He blames others for misunderstanding
:42:50. > :42:56.what she was saying. Based upon the asbestos results, the area around
:42:57. > :43:00.Ground Zero was safe except for the pile. There was the caution, and
:43:01. > :43:06.the EPA did say there are other things in there we don't know about.
:43:06. > :43:10.So I didn't find any fault with what she said, I blame the media, I
:43:10. > :43:14.blame the officials in the Government for trying to put us at
:43:14. > :43:20.ease much too quickly. Hopefully we learned something. As a scientist,
:43:20. > :43:27.you know what's in the dust, would you have been happy to return to an
:43:28. > :43:36.apartment near Ground Zero within a week? Yes, if I had a respirator on,
:43:36. > :43:40.absolutely. Without one, would you have gone there?
:43:40. > :43:45.The huge construction project at Ground Zero, gathers pace. A vision
:43:45. > :43:50.of optimisim, in a city back on its feet. But among those who worked on
:43:50. > :43:56.the rubble, a new fear is emerging, that the dust didn't only lead to
:43:56. > :44:02.the illnesses we are seeing now, it is also causing cancers. That's one
:44:02. > :44:08.reason why there is a legal battle for compensation. I think we will
:44:08. > :44:11.be seeing new diseases develop, 20, 30 years from now. It is going to
:44:11. > :44:17.be a long, long period where more and more people get sick over the
:44:17. > :44:23.course of time. This is just the beginning, this is not ten years
:44:23. > :44:25.out the end. We're going to be facing people getting sick with
:44:25. > :44:31.9/11-related injuries, and illnesses for another 20 years, at
:44:31. > :44:37.least. When you come to New York and hear
:44:37. > :44:43.the words "lawyer" and compensation, and you would be for given for
:44:43. > :44:46.being cynical, this is the most lit tiingous city on the planet. When
:44:46. > :44:50.you hear one of their health officials saying he thinks more
:44:50. > :44:53.people will die because of the dust that billowed over here ten years
:44:53. > :44:58.ago, you realise this is a serious and growing problem. The whole
:44:58. > :45:03.question of the health impacts of 9/11, aren't just relevant on this,
:45:03. > :45:13.the 10th anniversary, they will be relevant for many more
:45:13. > :45:18.
:45:18. > :45:23.Overlooking Manhattan, a memorial to James Zadroga, and a generation
:45:23. > :45:32.born after 9/11. The attack won't be forgotten. Because for so many,
:45:32. > :45:37.it is not over. Next week we will be reflecting on
:45:37. > :45:41.how the world has changed in the decades since 9/11, culminating in
:45:41. > :45:44.a special programme, with Kirsty, live from New York, next Friday.
:45:44. > :45:50.Tomorrow morning's front pages now, the Telegraph reports that the
:45:50. > :45:56.changes to the planning laws we were talking about earlier, would
:45:56. > :46:06.result in about another 1,000 more major developments every year. The
:46:06. > :46:07.
:46:07. > :46:14.Financial Times has a picture of Strauss Khan returning to his home.
:46:14. > :46:23.Madonna is on the front releasing a film premiering yesterday, it was
:46:23. > :46:30.said to be Morrisable than anyone To expect! Peter Twis died today,
:46:30. > :46:38.the first man to fly at more than 1,000 miles an hour. He achieved
:46:38. > :46:48.the feat in 1956. Delta two preparing for the flight that will
:46:48. > :46:49.