0:00:01 > 0:00:04If you can keep your head while all around are losing their's, you
0:00:04 > 0:00:09obviously haven't a clue what's going on.
0:00:09 > 0:00:13Banks in trouble, politicians panicked, and the printing presses
0:00:13 > 0:00:17being warmed up for more money printing. From Athens to London to
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Washington, trouble is brewing. economy is weakening under us, the
0:00:21 > 0:00:26tide waters are receding, there is not much left in terms of demand,
0:00:26 > 0:00:30we have to do something to try to stimulate it. As the countryside
0:00:30 > 0:00:35revolt over planning deepens, David Cameron tries to reaching out to
0:00:35 > 0:00:40the campaigners. The boss of Next, wishes he would stand firm, he has
0:00:40 > 0:00:44six big stores he would like to build and can't under the present
0:00:44 > 0:00:50laws. Sick and hungry, they say, because they don't support the
0:00:50 > 0:00:54Government. Yet Britain gives hundreds of millions to Ethiopia.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57Are British aid officials allowing a brutal Government to decide who
0:00:57 > 0:01:02lives and who dies. Can the International Development Secretary
0:01:02 > 0:01:09tell us why we assist a bunch of thugs. This is our future, we start
0:01:09 > 0:01:13building it today. The Liberal Democrat leader gives his people a
0:01:13 > 0:01:23beginners guide to Government, it is jolly hard, apparently. How long
0:01:23 > 0:01:27
0:01:27 > 0:01:37can this pitch last. 20% cuts in pensions tens of
0:01:37 > 0:01:39
0:01:39 > 0:01:44thousands of redundancies. The economic crisis is so bad, a
0:01:44 > 0:01:49handful of country's problems with one currency. In Washington the
0:01:49 > 0:01:53Federal Reserve is trying feverishly to drive down the cost
0:01:53 > 0:02:02of borrowing, high spending money converting long-term loans into
0:02:02 > 0:02:06short-term debts. We should have the four horsemen of the apocalypse,
0:02:06 > 0:02:10but we have our guests. Let as start with the Greek
0:02:10 > 0:02:14Government tonight. What have they decided they will do, and will it
0:02:14 > 0:02:16be acceptable? There was no deal tonight, Jeremy, because a deal
0:02:16 > 0:02:23would involve a full austerity package from the Greek Government,
0:02:23 > 0:02:27and the IMF and the European Union, the so-called troika, handing them
0:02:27 > 0:02:31over eight billion euros into their bank account. This hasn't happened,
0:02:31 > 0:02:35it won't happen because we have only had half the story. The Greeks
0:02:35 > 0:02:39have announce job losses and pensions cuts, and tax rises on the
0:02:39 > 0:02:44poorest paid. They have announced this central property tax, two
0:02:44 > 0:02:51billion euros a year, collected through electricity bills will last
0:02:51 > 0:02:58to 2014. One is it is not enough, and secondly, I have heard the IMF
0:02:58 > 0:03:02is call for the Greeks to meet their 2011 target. They are way off
0:03:02 > 0:03:05that and spiralling further away. This isn't going to happen. My take
0:03:05 > 0:03:09on what's happened to today is this is the Greeks putting on the table
0:03:09 > 0:03:12this is what we can do. They will go to Washington at the weekend and
0:03:12 > 0:03:21say do you really want to bankrupt this country over the difference
0:03:21 > 0:03:25between what we have delivered today and what you want. We have
0:03:25 > 0:03:29been tending to see this as the last few weeks as a crisis in the
0:03:29 > 0:03:33eurozone, but actually it is clear, this is a global crisis, isn't it?
0:03:33 > 0:03:39I think it is certainly a big global worry, of course it is not
0:03:39 > 0:03:41just Greece causing worries, it is also the slow growth of the US and
0:03:41 > 0:03:46other economies, the difficulty in climbing out of the debt crisis
0:03:46 > 0:03:52that we saw in the last three years, and the fact that we're still
0:03:52 > 0:03:56having to turn to the central banks for help. What is very striking in
0:03:56 > 0:04:00the last few weeks is we have had people drawing parallels with the
0:04:00 > 0:04:04October 2008, the feeling we had then. In some ways the situation is
0:04:04 > 0:04:07better and in some ways it is worse. You had the stark warning from the
0:04:07 > 0:04:09IMF yesterday about the state of the economy. Another stark warning
0:04:09 > 0:04:12today about the state of the financial system, and particularly
0:04:12 > 0:04:21the state of Europe's banks. I think that is something that is
0:04:21 > 0:04:26going to be increasingly focused on in the next few weeks. The IMF says
0:04:26 > 0:04:30the European banks are looking at paper losses of $200 billion
0:04:30 > 0:04:33because of the losses over the last few years. You have a lot of people
0:04:33 > 0:04:38turning to the Europeans saying this is a grobl problem, we told
0:04:38 > 0:04:42you to fix Greece, we haven't fixed Greece, for goodness sake you must
0:04:42 > 0:04:47at least protect your banks from the consequences of that failure.
0:04:47 > 0:04:53Does it looks a if there could be major European banks going down on
0:04:53 > 0:04:58this? We have seen three big American banks downgraded today,
0:04:58 > 0:05:03several Italian banks, one Belgian banks, on top of the French banks
0:05:03 > 0:05:08downgraded last week, all on top of the bleeping radar of the Greek
0:05:08 > 0:05:13crisis. If somebody issues the word "default" into the conversation,
0:05:13 > 0:05:19sooner or later it will come on the agenda properly. If they can save
0:05:19 > 0:05:24Greece for October, in December we have huge repayments and March. As
0:05:24 > 0:05:27Stephaine says there, the declining growth rate of the world, combined
0:05:27 > 0:05:32with the declining tax take of this country, has to pose the question,
0:05:32 > 0:05:40what losses are sitting inside the French, German and Belgian banking
0:05:40 > 0:05:43system. That is really the question. Until we get the new fund. The ESF,
0:05:43 > 0:05:48the safety net to catch those losses there is a giant question
0:05:48 > 0:05:52mark. Central banks are increasingly talking about printing
0:05:52 > 0:05:57money, quantitative easing. We are just finding Governments, once
0:05:57 > 0:06:01again, and all of us turning to the central banks, for more of a quick
0:06:01 > 0:06:04fix, more of a support for the recovery. I think there is a lot of
0:06:04 > 0:06:10uneasiness about how much the central banks can do. We saw the US
0:06:10 > 0:06:16Central Bank, the Fed today, do the excitingly entitled Operation Twist,
0:06:16 > 0:06:19which was last attempted in the early 1960, I won't go into the
0:06:19 > 0:06:24less exciting details of what they did. They are not injected money
0:06:24 > 0:06:26into the economy, because they are worried about some of the
0:06:26 > 0:06:31consequences of having lots more money around. They are shuffling
0:06:31 > 0:06:34the debts and assets they told, in an effort to push down long-term
0:06:35 > 0:06:38interest rates, so lower mortgage rates and business loans. A lot of
0:06:38 > 0:06:41people saying I'm not sure this will have a big impact. A lot of
0:06:41 > 0:06:45companies in the US have lots of money to invest, they are not
0:06:45 > 0:06:48investing it, interest rates are already low, that is the issue.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52Even the central banks have less ammunition now to throw at this
0:06:52 > 0:06:56than they did a few years ago. Another key point in that IMF
0:06:56 > 0:07:00report that we saw today, on the state of the financial, the global
0:07:00 > 0:07:04financial system, is they worry this long period of superlow
0:07:04 > 0:07:08interest rates, is not only putting off the day of reckoning when it
0:07:08 > 0:07:12comes to debts in Europe and elsewhere, but it is also actually
0:07:12 > 0:07:16laying the seed for another crisis. Because it is actually sending
0:07:16 > 0:07:19people off looking for high returns and yields, risky investments again,
0:07:19 > 0:07:23just the kind of behaviour we saw leading up to the last crisis.
0:07:23 > 0:07:28There are some real concerns here about running out of ammunition.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32What a cherrio note on which to end. Thank you very much.
0:07:32 > 0:07:38Be Last night's suggestion that the Government might ever so slightly
0:07:38 > 0:07:42depart from its deficit plan, there has been one message coming out,
0:07:42 > 0:07:46there is no alternative to plan A. As the world economy gets worse and
0:07:47 > 0:07:51the growth rates are down, there is a distinct note of serious anxiety.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54What are the discussions at the top of Government, what are the options.
0:07:54 > 0:08:03Is there anything better than hoping Mervyn King comes to the
0:08:03 > 0:08:07rescue? It's difficult for anything very much to flourish in autumn.
0:08:07 > 0:08:12But particularly chill winds have gone blowing through the British
0:08:12 > 0:08:19economy. Borrowing and unemployment up, growth forecasts down. And
0:08:19 > 0:08:23there is that currency crisis on Britain's doorstep too.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27So the political message to the Liberal Democrats today, employment
0:08:27 > 0:08:34and economic growth is firmly rooted in the Government's thinking.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37Deficit reduction, it lays the down daigss for growth, but on its - -
0:08:38 > 0:08:42foundations for growth, but on its own it is not enough. That is why
0:08:42 > 0:08:46we are investing in infrastructure, reducing red tape, promoting skills,
0:08:46 > 0:08:54getting the banks lending. But the outlook for the global economy has
0:08:54 > 0:09:04got worse. So we need to do more. We can do more, and we will do for
0:09:04 > 0:09:08more growth and jobs. So what exactly can be done to stimulate
0:09:08 > 0:09:14economic growth and create jobs. Both the Treasury and Nick Clegg's
0:09:14 > 0:09:19own advisers have rubbished suggestions that an extra �5
0:09:19 > 0:09:23billion can be found to invest in infrastructure. Instead the deputy
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Prime Minister has been talking about shaking the Whitehall tree,
0:09:27 > 0:09:30that is clearing blockages in the system and making sure existing
0:09:30 > 0:09:35projects are finishing on time. Some of the most prominent members
0:09:35 > 0:09:36of his party believe the Government can go further, without uprooting
0:09:37 > 0:09:42their commitment to eliminating the deficit.
0:09:42 > 0:09:46The Liberal Democrats don't want to take a leaf out of Labour's book by
0:09:46 > 0:09:50dramatically slowing down deficit reduction. There are calls more
0:09:50 > 0:09:57moving resources around. I'm one quite attracted by a reduction in
0:09:57 > 0:10:02VAT. Plan B, or even plan A plus, these are the plans that dare not
0:10:02 > 0:10:05speak their names, because of the risk of affecting the whole issue
0:10:05 > 0:10:08of confidence. I don't doubt for a moment, that contrary to what was
0:10:08 > 0:10:15said in public, I don't doubt there was a lot of work going on in
0:10:15 > 0:10:19private as to just exactly what could be done within the envelope
0:10:19 > 0:10:23of the predicted public expenditure, which would allow for stimulus. It
0:10:23 > 0:10:27is a very, very fine judgment. have agreed the plan that there
0:10:27 > 0:10:30will be investment, but it is not good at being a plan sitting in the
0:10:30 > 0:10:33departments of Whitehall, it has to be happening in the north-east and
0:10:33 > 0:10:36the West Midlands, it is getting the scheme on the ground, the
0:10:36 > 0:10:40houses being built, the infrastructure being laid, first
0:10:40 > 0:10:43thing, and then we have to, it seems to me, look in Government for
0:10:43 > 0:10:46anything else. Where we can perhaps take some money that might have
0:10:46 > 0:10:51been spent, not with the direct effect on the economy, and move it
0:10:51 > 0:10:54to somewhere where it can have that benefit. But there are fears that
0:10:54 > 0:10:57displaying any deviation from current spending plans could spook
0:10:57 > 0:11:04the markets. So the Government is looking for other ways to help the
0:11:04 > 0:11:09economy pick up. Money, of course, doesn't grow on
0:11:09 > 0:11:12trees, but it is quite handy that the Bank of England can print it.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15Newly published minutes of the Monetary Policy Committee, have
0:11:15 > 0:11:19raised the prospect of a new round of what is called quantitative
0:11:19 > 0:11:22easing. I have not hidden the fact that looking at the economy as a
0:11:22 > 0:11:26whole, that is one contribution that they could make to stimulate
0:11:26 > 0:11:29recovery. The economy is weakening under us, the tide waters are
0:11:29 > 0:11:35receding, there is not much left in terms of demand, we have to do
0:11:35 > 0:11:39something to try to stimulate it. The last thing that remains is QE.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43As well as quantitative easing, the bank also discussed whether
0:11:43 > 0:11:46interest rates could go even lower, beneath half of one per cent. Some
0:11:46 > 0:11:51ministers say even within the current spending plans, the
0:11:51 > 0:11:55Government itself can do more to promote growth. We had to have
0:11:55 > 0:11:58stability and stimulus. We have to have both together. Stability
0:11:58 > 0:12:02consists of sticking with our commitments on deficit reduction,
0:12:02 > 0:12:05we are going to do that, we won't deviate from that, were there are
0:12:05 > 0:12:08things that can be done to stimulate the economy. Today the
0:12:08 > 0:12:12key measure from Government is that there will be no departure from
0:12:12 > 0:12:16plan A. But some say, if you separate the wood from the trees,
0:12:16 > 0:12:23you would realise that plan does allow the Government to do more, to
0:12:23 > 0:12:30boost growth in difficult times. How close do they come to plan A
0:12:30 > 0:12:38plus, or plan A, sub section 1? There is going to be a growth
0:12:38 > 0:12:45strategy unveiled at November. And there was discussion in the cabinet.
0:12:45 > 0:12:53It was put on in Danny Alexander's talk about putting a rocket under
0:12:53 > 0:12:56existing plans and getting them in on time. After the word about �500
0:12:56 > 0:13:00billion was announced, it was slammed on by the Government and
0:13:00 > 0:13:05said it was not going to happen. That doesn't mean there aren't
0:13:05 > 0:13:08those pressing the Government to do more. There are quite senior
0:13:08 > 0:13:11Conservative backbenchers saying, actually, plan A has to be ajusd.
0:13:11 > 0:13:15They are taking a look at the growth figures, and they will
0:13:15 > 0:13:19remain low, and the Government will have to take a look at plan A plus,
0:13:19 > 0:13:22and plan B. The Government's calculation was simple. Why risk
0:13:22 > 0:13:26sending a signal to the markets that you might be considering
0:13:26 > 0:13:31fiscal stimulus, and you might in some way be departing from the plan,
0:13:31 > 0:13:33for the sake of �5 billion, when we heard from the Monetary Policy
0:13:34 > 0:13:38Committee, there could be �50 billion going in through
0:13:38 > 0:13:41quantitative easing, or printing money, much easier politically.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45One of the ways of mending the economy, the Government has been
0:13:45 > 0:13:51telling us, for weeks now, is to reform the planning laws, so that
0:13:51 > 0:13:56in future they are tilts in favour of developers. This simple idea has
0:13:56 > 0:14:00achieved the brilliant feat of uniting conservation organisations
0:14:00 > 0:14:02from the National Trust, against a Conservative Prime Minister. Today,
0:14:02 > 0:14:12David Cameron, tried to mend his fences with them, by claiming he
0:14:12 > 0:14:14
0:14:14 > 0:14:20also wants to protebt the countryside.
0:14:20 > 0:14:25It is a picture-perfect vision of England, at the heart of the
0:14:25 > 0:14:31Toryshires, place you might expect to be at peace under a
0:14:31 > 0:14:37Conservative-led Government. Beneath the idyllic exterior of the
0:14:37 > 0:14:43Northamptonshire village of win nick, not including the animals,
0:14:43 > 0:14:51trouble is brewing. Within I public speaking, I was told to do
0:14:51 > 0:14:57something very flashy, I hope that was flashy enough for David Cameron
0:14:57 > 0:15:02to remember win nick. Bruce is a scientist that mixes herbal
0:15:02 > 0:15:06cosmetic products for cleaning products. He has always been a
0:15:06 > 0:15:12loyal Tory, and a donor to the party. What is happening outside
0:15:12 > 0:15:16his front door is making him change his mind. For years he has been
0:15:16 > 0:15:22enhancing the countryside for those to enjoy. Now, he believes the view
0:15:22 > 0:15:27will be ruined by a row of 400 wind turbines, that a German company
0:15:27 > 0:15:30wants to build along this ridge. If the plans go ahead it will be the
0:15:30 > 0:15:35Government's fault. To make an economic decision, not a viable
0:15:36 > 0:15:38decision, to take over big areas of British countryside is a mistake.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42The Conservative Party will be decimated at the next election by
0:15:42 > 0:15:47the bad decisions. They need to look at "middle England", their
0:15:47 > 0:15:52electorate, they are not taking any notice of them, they don't want
0:15:52 > 0:15:57wind farms in beautiful areas. they get their way, the valley will
0:15:57 > 0:16:03be overlooked by seven turbines, creating enough clean enemy for
0:16:03 > 0:16:0710,000 homes. On shore wind is a vital part of the UK generation mix.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12It enables us to be part of making sure the lights stay on. We need to
0:16:12 > 0:16:17reduce our carbon emissions, and we need affordable energy. Wind
0:16:17 > 0:16:20technology fits that bill, in fact, wind is one of the cheaper forms of
0:16:20 > 0:16:24technology to design, build and operate.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29Whether or not the plan goes ahead, will be decided at a public inquiry
0:16:29 > 0:16:38early next year. And though localvilleagers are almost
0:16:38 > 0:16:44unanimous - local villagers are almost unanimously opposed, it may
0:16:44 > 0:16:49go through. The Government wants to empower local communities, but it
0:16:49 > 0:16:53also wants to encourage economic growth. Many now fear when there is
0:16:53 > 0:16:59a contradiction between those two aims, it is growth that will come
0:16:59 > 0:17:04first. The coalition's new planning policy framework, designed to
0:17:04 > 0:17:08simplify the he can siing system, says decision makers at every level
0:17:08 > 0:17:12should assume that a default answer to any development proposal should
0:17:12 > 0:17:19be left, and planning authorities should approve all individual
0:17:19 > 0:17:24applications whenever possible. The local council leader is against
0:17:24 > 0:17:28the wind plan, although it is going to public authority before it is
0:17:28 > 0:17:32agreed. It should be local people making local decisions, not be
0:17:32 > 0:17:38negative, we are a pro-growth council, we are all about growth,
0:17:38 > 0:17:41it should be about allowing us to make the decisions. If planning
0:17:41 > 0:17:46applications are not popular locally and should be heard at the
0:17:46 > 0:17:51appeal, the appeal inspectors should take note of concerns.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54residents are co-ordinating a campaign against proposals, they
0:17:54 > 0:17:58say, don't make environmental or economic sense. When the Government,
0:17:58 > 0:18:03as in this case, get something hopelessly wrong, we should be
0:18:03 > 0:18:06allowed to have our say, that is the British way. Now, aware of
0:18:06 > 0:18:10concerns like that across rural England, the Prime Minister has
0:18:11 > 0:18:20written to the National Trust, to try to reassure them that the new
0:18:21 > 0:18:27
0:18:27 > 0:18:29planning policy isn't an attack on Here the local Conservative MP is
0:18:29 > 0:18:34supporting his constituents in their battle against the wind farm.
0:18:34 > 0:18:39He doesn't think voters will desert his party over planning policy, but
0:18:39 > 0:18:44he wants the planning minister, Greg Clarke, to be clearer about
0:18:44 > 0:18:48his intentions. There is too many grey areas about some of these
0:18:48 > 0:18:53proposals. I sat in a meeting two weeks ago with Greg Clarke briefing
0:18:53 > 0:18:56us on what the proposals actually meant, and then came out and read a
0:18:56 > 0:19:00national newspaper the next day that said exactly the opposite. I
0:19:00 > 0:19:05just think any confusion, it is our fault if confusion lies out there,
0:19:05 > 0:19:08we need to clarify those things. What many want here is simply to be
0:19:08 > 0:19:13hold that local people will have the last word on major plans
0:19:13 > 0:19:17affecting their community, regardless of national parties. For
0:19:17 > 0:19:24the Government to agree to that, would not be so much a
0:19:24 > 0:19:27clarification as a u-turn. Over 20 of the country's biggest
0:19:28 > 0:19:33businessmen wrote to the Times, and said these planning changes were
0:19:33 > 0:19:39the only way for the country's economy to grow. One of them was
0:19:39 > 0:19:43the chief executive of Next. Don't you love the countryside? Yes, I
0:19:43 > 0:19:46live there. I don't think the planning reforms are about
0:19:46 > 0:19:50concreting over vast swathes of the country, if you read the proposals
0:19:50 > 0:19:54there are measures to protect the green belt, to protect areas of
0:19:54 > 0:19:58outstanding natural beauty. As the MP said on the programme there,
0:19:59 > 0:20:02this has been a huge communication problem. That is no what the
0:20:02 > 0:20:06legislation does. This is a bogus issue, the royal town planning
0:20:07 > 0:20:10institute says 80% of applications are approved. 90% of large
0:20:10 > 0:20:13commercial applications are approved, within three months?,
0:20:13 > 0:20:19what's the problem? The problem is. I will give you an example, we have
0:20:19 > 0:20:21six stops we would like to build, invest �30 million, all on
0:20:21 > 0:20:25brownfield sites, employing about 1,000 people, we can't do that
0:20:25 > 0:20:29because the planning system won't let us. It will take a long time,
0:20:29 > 0:20:33my guess is half of them will go through. For those people who say
0:20:33 > 0:20:37there is no problem, it is not true. The reason why the statistics are
0:20:37 > 0:20:41very mislead, is because in a lot of places we don't get to the stage
0:20:42 > 0:20:45of applying to planning permission. I went to one council and said we
0:20:46 > 0:20:50would like to build a shop outside your town, and they said we don't
0:20:50 > 0:20:54want those types of jobs in our area, don't bother applying for
0:20:55 > 0:21:00planning permission, so we didn't. The statistics don't tell the whole
0:21:00 > 0:21:06story. If the new regulations applied only to brownfield sites,
0:21:06 > 0:21:09you would be perfectly happy? company hasn't any plans to build
0:21:09 > 0:21:13on Greenfield sites. Other companies do, they want to do so
0:21:13 > 0:21:18because it is cheaper and the cost of putting in the infrastructure is
0:21:18 > 0:21:24not their's but the local authorities, that is undesirable?
0:21:24 > 0:21:29Not in all cases. We occupy only 8% of this country, 92% of the country
0:21:29 > 0:21:31are green fields, the idea we take some of those green fields and
0:21:32 > 0:21:35enhance the living standards and solve our housing crisis with a
0:21:35 > 0:21:40small fraction of the line. There isn't a housing crisis? There is if
0:21:40 > 0:21:44you are a young person look to go buy a house. That is a cost of
0:21:44 > 0:21:48housing crisis, there is actually a surplus of housing? No, there is no
0:21:48 > 0:21:51surplus of housing that people want to buy. The trouble is it is all
0:21:51 > 0:21:54very well saying you have a job in London, but actually there is a
0:21:54 > 0:21:59house for you in North Wales that is vacant. You need to build houses
0:21:59 > 0:22:03where people want to live. It is all very well for people to say let
0:22:03 > 0:22:06them eat brownfield, we need to build houses where people want to
0:22:06 > 0:22:09live. Would you accept the principle that brownfield sites
0:22:09 > 0:22:14should be developed first? Absolutely. This is where, and
0:22:14 > 0:22:19there is an enormous consensus on this, one of the main things that
0:22:19 > 0:22:22the planning changes can do is to make it easier to develop on
0:22:22 > 0:22:25brownfield sites. At the moment regulations around building on
0:22:26 > 0:22:29brownfield sites, means it is almost impossible to do it
0:22:29 > 0:22:33economically. I was talking to a doler last night a site in
0:22:33 > 0:22:38Clerkenwell, wants to build housing on it, has been told he can only
0:22:38 > 0:22:42build affordable housing, that means he can't afford to build
0:22:42 > 0:22:46anything, that site will stay vacant. You have said that
0:22:46 > 0:22:50affordable housing is a desirable thing? It is, but the policy for
0:22:50 > 0:22:53affordable housing is making it less affordable because it is stop
0:22:53 > 0:22:58anybody building anything new. you worried the Prime Minister is
0:22:58 > 0:23:01going soft on the issue? Absolutely not, what the Prime Minister said
0:23:01 > 0:23:05today is exactly what the legislation said, it says it is
0:23:05 > 0:23:10going to protect green belt, national heritage, it says it will
0:23:10 > 0:23:14insist on good-quality design, which has never been insisted on bf
0:23:15 > 0:23:19before. It is funny how the papers back to the preservation trust
0:23:19 > 0:23:24hasn't got the message? Read the document, it makes all those things
0:23:24 > 0:23:29clear. How big a hole are we in if we don't get these changes? That is
0:23:29 > 0:23:33a good question. As all your reports said there is no easy
0:23:33 > 0:23:38demand solution to this, we can't lend our way out of it, we have to
0:23:38 > 0:23:41build our way out of it. The problem with building is it
0:23:41 > 0:23:48requires physical change. If people want to build new shops, offices,
0:23:48 > 0:23:51somebody says no you can't do that, we will stagnate.
0:23:51 > 0:23:58Is money given by British tax- payers to prevent starvation in
0:23:58 > 0:24:02Africa being used stpor a preive regime there. Britain is a second-
0:24:02 > 0:24:06largest donor of aid there. The Government there has been
0:24:06 > 0:24:11accused of a crackdown against opposition supporters and
0:24:11 > 0:24:20journalists. First IRA minder of how this programme and the bureau
0:24:20 > 0:24:26of - a reminder of how this programme and the Bureau of
0:24:26 > 0:24:31Investigative Journalism looked at this issue.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34Undercover in the Horn of Africa, Newsnight and the Bureau of
0:24:34 > 0:24:38Investigative Journalism travelled to uetyopia to look into mounting
0:24:38 > 0:24:45allegations of human rights abuses. We revealed evidence of children
0:24:45 > 0:24:50dying of hunger. Aid used as a weapon of oppression, to staff the
0:24:50 > 0:24:55opposition into submission. 20 years of mass arrests, extra
0:24:55 > 0:25:04judicial killings and rape. They used to beat me, they used to do
0:25:04 > 0:25:09whatever they like. Then they started raping me. $3 billion in
0:25:09 > 0:25:15long-term development aid flows into Ethiopia every year, despite
0:25:15 > 0:25:22these allegation, all denied by the Ethiopian Government. This is
0:25:22 > 0:25:32completely a report that lacks objectivity, it also lacks even-
0:25:32 > 0:25:34
0:25:34 > 0:25:40handedness, and as a matter of fact, it solely got the source which it
0:25:40 > 0:25:45used are opponents of Ethiopia. But following our investigation,
0:25:45 > 0:25:51members of the Ethiopian diaspora, have told Newsnight that there has
0:25:51 > 0:25:57been a concerted Government backlash. Sadly, there has been a
0:25:57 > 0:26:01crackdown by the security forces on people who are suspected to have
0:26:01 > 0:26:04co-operated with the programme. We have certainly got propers that
0:26:04 > 0:26:10some people have been arrested, - reports that some people have been
0:26:10 > 0:26:14arrested and questioned by security forces, and some people have left
0:26:14 > 0:26:18the area for fear of what would follow. The crackdown has widened.
0:26:18 > 0:26:23In the last two months at least 40 opposition politicians, their
0:26:23 > 0:26:25supporters and journalists, have been arrested by the Security
0:26:25 > 0:26:31Services. Amnesty International researchers were expelled from the
0:26:31 > 0:26:33country last month. I have heard from political
0:26:34 > 0:26:38opposition groups that there is really increased tension now
0:26:38 > 0:26:43amongst the political opposition, civil society activists have said
0:26:43 > 0:26:46that the situation is rapidly deteriorating. To use their words.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50Journalists are more afraid, even than they were before. We are
0:26:50 > 0:26:54talking about a country where there is a significant climate of fear.
0:26:54 > 0:27:01All of those groups are already kpraith operating in a cloim mate
0:27:01 > 0:27:05of fear. As our - Operating in a climate of fear. As our report
0:27:05 > 0:27:13showed allegations of torture in prison is rife. I have never seen
0:27:13 > 0:27:17such being gaigs of human beings. The most certificate - Degradation
0:27:17 > 0:27:21of human decision. The European Human Rights Commission reported
0:27:21 > 0:27:28there is no evidence to suggest cruel, inhumane or degrading
0:27:28 > 0:27:38treatment in prisons. Many have questioned its independence.
0:27:38 > 0:27:40
0:27:40 > 0:27:49If really they wanted the Human Rights Commission to work, just low,
0:27:49 > 0:27:57- justly, legally, I think there is a lot to be said. But these are
0:27:57 > 0:28:03puppets appointed to the commission. Last year, the UK gave the
0:28:03 > 0:28:07Ethiopian Human Rights Commission �20,000. - �230,000. A generation
0:28:07 > 0:28:12of people are beaten, some have lost their lives. We challenge a
0:28:12 > 0:28:18lot of diplomacy, including British diplomats to get access to what is
0:28:18 > 0:28:24going on. What is their response? They say the Government is
0:28:24 > 0:28:30interference, the Government says this and that. More apologetic, not
0:28:30 > 0:28:36really pressing hard to get what is going on.
0:28:36 > 0:28:42Despite the Ethiopian Government's emphatic denials, more evidence has
0:28:42 > 0:28:45emerged. US diplomatic cables, released by WikiLeaks, detailed
0:28:45 > 0:28:49widespread systemic and wanton human rights abuses over the years.
0:28:49 > 0:28:55Hangings, branding people, gang rape, abitary detentions and
0:28:55 > 0:28:59killings. We also investigated allegations
0:28:59 > 0:29:03that aid was being used as a tool of oppression. People in areas
0:29:04 > 0:29:08loyal to the opposition denied aid, fertiliser and seed, allegations
0:29:08 > 0:29:15previously brought to the attention of the international community.
0:29:15 > 0:29:20position of the community is dismissive, they always want to
0:29:20 > 0:29:23dismiss it as an isolated incident, where we present them with some
0:29:23 > 0:29:33proof. And we challenge them to go down and check it out for
0:29:33 > 0:29:34
0:29:34 > 0:29:44themselves. They don't want do it. And again, the US gaict cables show
0:29:44 > 0:29:56
0:29:56 > 0:30:03Critics say there is an overwhelming body of evidence, and
0:30:04 > 0:30:07that they are losing faith. I have given up on the west. I do
0:30:07 > 0:30:15not believe that the west is interested in democracy and the
0:30:16 > 0:30:18rule of law and human rights. In the third world. Human rights and
0:30:19 > 0:30:23democracy are central to development. The dilemma for the
0:30:23 > 0:30:26west, how to engage with a Government seemingly intent on
0:30:26 > 0:30:29crucialing dissent. Shortly before coming on air
0:30:29 > 0:30:33strikes I tacked to the International Development Secretary
0:30:33 > 0:30:38- I talked to the International Development Secretary, Andrew
0:30:38 > 0:30:44Mitchell. Do you accept that British aid is being used for
0:30:44 > 0:30:48political purposes in Ethiopia? I don't, but I accept serious
0:30:48 > 0:30:51allegations made in your film and they need to be answered. I raise
0:30:51 > 0:30:55these allegations when I meet Ethiopian ministers, I will meet
0:30:55 > 0:31:03one in a few minutes. When I see the Prime Minister, I always raise
0:31:03 > 0:31:08these allegations with him. But you have never seen them proved? One of
0:31:08 > 0:31:13the allegations, which you mention, is about the misuse of food support.
0:31:13 > 0:31:19We had that investigated by officials in some detail about six
0:31:19 > 0:31:24or seven months ago, they found no evidence at all of systemic misuse
0:31:24 > 0:31:34of food support. So I accept completely that these allegations
0:31:34 > 0:31:34
0:31:34 > 0:31:40must be looked at. Just to be clear about that particular allegation
0:31:40 > 0:31:44did your investigators go to Ethiopia to the place in question?
0:31:44 > 0:31:47My investigators are the officials based in Ethiopia, and run the
0:31:48 > 0:31:54British development programme there. They investigated these allegations,
0:31:54 > 0:31:59and as I say, they discovered that there was no systemic misuse of
0:31:59 > 0:32:03food support. When you look at the assessments of
0:32:03 > 0:32:10the human rights record of the Government of yeethyopia, the
0:32:10 > 0:32:20hanging of - Ethiopia, the hanging, the health authorityure, mass rape
0:32:20 > 0:32:25and everything else d torture, mass rapes and everything else, one
0:32:25 > 0:32:29wonders why one pound from Britain should go.
0:32:29 > 0:32:32The British Government will press for these investigations to be open
0:32:32 > 0:32:36and independent, that is entirely different from British aid going to
0:32:36 > 0:32:40Ethiopia, none of which goes through the Government. We should
0:32:40 > 0:32:44be clear that British development, over recent years, has made a huge
0:32:44 > 0:32:47difference in Ethiopia, saving literally millions of lives. You
0:32:47 > 0:32:52can see this now by looking at the way in which the desperate
0:32:52 > 0:32:56situation in the Horn of Africa is affecting Somalia, where probably
0:32:56 > 0:33:00nearly 400,000 children are at risk of dying later this year. Compare
0:33:00 > 0:33:05that to what has happened in Ethiopia, where the international
0:33:05 > 0:33:07development effort has been hugely successful. We have probably cut
0:33:07 > 0:33:17the prevalence of malnutrition amongst children, in the last 20
0:33:17 > 0:33:19
0:33:19 > 0:33:23years bs by nearly 50%. British aid works. Can I clarify one point, you
0:33:23 > 0:33:29said the British aid doesn't go through the Ethiopian Government?
0:33:29 > 0:33:33There is no general support through the Government of Ethiopia, that
0:33:33 > 0:33:36was stopped in 205, after the election of the Prime Minister on -
0:33:36 > 0:33:402005, after the election of the Prime Minister on that ecation. We
0:33:40 > 0:33:45have an extensive social protection programme, that is administered by
0:33:45 > 0:33:50an independent Government organisation, which we monitor
0:33:50 > 0:33:54extremely closely, and it gives support to some seven million
0:33:54 > 0:33:57people in Ethiopia. That uses aspects of local Government, but
0:33:57 > 0:34:00don't go through the central Government, and it relies on
0:34:00 > 0:34:04regional implementation to deliver T I have seen it for myself and
0:34:04 > 0:34:12followed the way in which the programme works. I have seen how
0:34:12 > 0:34:19effective it is in saving lives. The accusation is that aid itself
0:34:19 > 0:34:21is being manipulated for other ends? The accusation is food aid is
0:34:21 > 0:34:25being manipulated, British officials investigated it on the
0:34:25 > 0:34:29ground, and found that we can't be certain it never happens, but we
0:34:29 > 0:34:36found no evidence of systemic manipulation of food aid. Do you
0:34:36 > 0:34:42also believe this Government won.6% of the vote in the elections in
0:34:42 > 0:34:482005? Well the independent analysis of the election was that it wasn't
0:34:48 > 0:34:53perfect, but it was, in African terms, quite good, and better the
0:34:53 > 0:34:56than the previous election. How is it, given your confidence in the
0:34:56 > 0:35:00legitimacy of the Government there, that the Americans have come to
0:35:00 > 0:35:04very different conclusion about the sort of regime it is? These are
0:35:04 > 0:35:09leaks through WikiLeaks, they are quite dated, but I emphasise that
0:35:09 > 0:35:11all these allegations should be investigated independently. We
0:35:12 > 0:35:16always press, when these allegations are made, and they are
0:35:16 > 0:35:21allegations, that they should be properly investigated. These
0:35:21 > 0:35:27allegations aren't very dated, they date from 2009? They refer to
0:35:27 > 0:35:32events that took place in 2008/2009, two years ago, since then we have
0:35:32 > 0:35:35made very strong representations and the investigations of my
0:35:35 > 0:35:43officials into the distortion of food aid was six or seven months
0:35:43 > 0:35:46ago. After we recorded that interview, the Department of
0:35:46 > 0:35:50International development clarified that no department official had
0:35:50 > 0:35:55been into the field specifically to investigate allegations of misuse
0:35:55 > 0:36:01of aid. Their investigation was, they say, a desk-based study
0:36:01 > 0:36:06conducted from Addis Abada, which did not seek to approve or disprove
0:36:06 > 0:36:11allegations of distortion. One of our news channels carried a
0:36:11 > 0:36:16headline "Nick Clegg gets standing ovation after speech". Of course he
0:36:16 > 0:36:21did, it would have been news worthy if he hadn't. It is the job of the
0:36:21 > 0:36:27stewards at the conferences to make sure critics bin it before they
0:36:27 > 0:36:32enter. From a distance, in content terms it was a sober speech for
0:36:32 > 0:36:42sober times. A sub-fuss sob bright has been the theme of the
0:36:42 > 0:36:46
0:36:46 > 0:36:50conference. Nobody wants to think their party
0:36:50 > 0:36:54has been blue rinsed, ask them what they have in common with the
0:36:54 > 0:37:00Conservatives, and they are most likely to say? I'm not sure.
0:37:00 > 0:37:05can't think of anything. What have you got in common with a
0:37:05 > 0:37:10Conservative? I don't know. Nick Clegg's advisers admit he has
0:37:10 > 0:37:14a big job to do today. He has to try to push back that tide of
0:37:15 > 0:37:18Conservatism, trying to contest every inch of political territory
0:37:18 > 0:37:23within the coalition. But at the same time, take ownership of the
0:37:23 > 0:37:28coalition, take pride in it. The easiest way to get a cheer today
0:37:28 > 0:37:31would be to bash the Conservative Party. But, we will know just how
0:37:31 > 0:37:41secure Nick Clegg feels in the support of his party by how little
0:37:41 > 0:37:43
0:37:43 > 0:37:46he does that today. The first priority has been to
0:37:46 > 0:37:52reassure the activists, the people who will have to knock on doors and
0:37:52 > 0:37:58try to win back voters. Without them on side, there can be no Lib
0:37:58 > 0:38:05Dem electoral recovery. His first task was to thank them. I know how
0:38:05 > 0:38:12painful it has been to face anger and frustration on the doorstep.
0:38:12 > 0:38:19Some of you maybe even wondered, would it all be worth it in the end.
0:38:19 > 0:38:25It will be. I have been genuinely moved by your spirit and your
0:38:25 > 0:38:29strength. Thank you. This reassurance went on at length, time
0:38:29 > 0:38:34and again Mr Clegg told his party they were doing the right thing,
0:38:34 > 0:38:37not the easy thing. The toughest job of all, turning around the
0:38:37 > 0:38:42economy. The deputy Prime Minister repeated his insistence there was
0:38:42 > 0:38:48no moving away from the coalition's deficit reduction programme. This
0:38:48 > 0:38:53has been ment painful cuts, agonisingly difficult - this has
0:38:53 > 0:38:58meant painful cuts and agonisingly difficult decisions, not easy, but
0:38:58 > 0:39:05right. The main take was on Labour. Mr Clegg delivered his own version
0:39:05 > 0:39:10of gloshed's "no time for a novice" line. This was aimed at the adviser
0:39:10 > 0:39:14top of the Labour Party. The two Eds, behind the scenes, lurking in
0:39:14 > 0:39:19the shadows, always plotting, always scheming, never taking
0:39:19 > 0:39:25responsibility. And at this time of crisis, what Britain needs is real
0:39:25 > 0:39:30leadership. This is no time for the back room boys.
0:39:30 > 0:39:34Labour then painted as the party of vested union interests. The Liberal
0:39:34 > 0:39:42Democrats, Mr Clegg said, by contrast, the party of the national
0:39:42 > 0:39:47interest. We are in nobody's pocket. Lessons to be learned over tuition
0:39:47 > 0:39:51fees, and a determination to resist Conservative calls to repeal the
0:39:51 > 0:39:58Human Rights Act Let me say something, really clear about the
0:39:58 > 0:40:04human acts. In fact, I will do it in words of one syllabel. It is
0:40:04 > 0:40:10here to stay. So much for the break, there was
0:40:10 > 0:40:15also, he said, a Liberal Democrat engine pushing forward, like an
0:40:15 > 0:40:19initiative aimed at tackling the causes of this summer's riots. Help
0:40:19 > 0:40:23for young people with no help for the future and going through the
0:40:23 > 0:40:27cracks. I'm launching a new scheme to help the children who need it
0:40:27 > 0:40:31most, in the summer before they start secondary school. A two-week
0:40:31 > 0:40:34summer school, helping them to catch up in maths and English, and
0:40:34 > 0:40:40getting them ready for the challenges ahe. After all the
0:40:40 > 0:40:45economic gloom, the message at the end was hopeful. Britain is our
0:40:45 > 0:40:51home, we will make it safe and strong. These are our children, we
0:40:51 > 0:40:58will tear down every barrier they face. This is our future. We start
0:40:59 > 0:41:02building it today. This was essentially a speech about
0:41:02 > 0:41:07reassurance. Don't worry, the deputy Prime Minister was saying,
0:41:07 > 0:41:11this is still the party you joined. But, through tough, uncomfortable
0:41:12 > 0:41:17choices, we, together as a party, have managed to make a difference
0:41:17 > 0:41:20to the country we love. You would have put more Tory
0:41:20 > 0:41:23bashing in there? No, what is important is to demonstrate we are
0:41:23 > 0:41:28doing tough things, not easy, but absolutely right. And demonstrating
0:41:28 > 0:41:32for the first time in 70 years you have liberals in power making a
0:41:32 > 0:41:35clear difference. As soon as the speech ends, the battle to
0:41:36 > 0:41:42interpret begins. As ever, with a leaders' conference speech, there
0:41:42 > 0:41:50is no guarantee that anyone, beyond the hall, has heard a single word.
0:41:50 > 0:41:57With us to discuss the speech are the Guardian columnist, Deborah Orr,
0:41:57 > 0:42:01and editor of the Spectator. Were you moved, you're a Lib Dem, were
0:42:01 > 0:42:05you moved? I was moved almost to despair. You have to laugh, don't
0:42:05 > 0:42:09you. It was, I suppose, the best he could do. Because he feels that he
0:42:09 > 0:42:13has to justify the choices that he made himself. But for me, they are
0:42:13 > 0:42:17not really justifiable. In that, I don't mean that I don't accept they
0:42:17 > 0:42:22had to do, as Gillian Duffy would put it, "go in" with the
0:42:22 > 0:42:26Conservatives. I do accept that the arithmetic of the election meant
0:42:26 > 0:42:33that they had to do that. But the choices that they have made since
0:42:33 > 0:42:39doing that have been ridiculous. I mean they really are in the midst
0:42:39 > 0:42:42of a self-immolation, and the idea they are doing the so-called right
0:42:42 > 0:42:46thing, I don't believe that, that they are some how in the end going
0:42:46 > 0:42:51to gain respect from all of this is ridiculous. It was interesting his
0:42:51 > 0:42:54take was all on Labour, wasn'tn't it? It does make you wonder whether
0:42:54 > 0:42:59he's saying the Tories are our lovers forever more, he said we
0:42:59 > 0:43:03will never again trust Labour with the economy. You can tell that
0:43:03 > 0:43:06easily the mass majority of that hall would rather he was in
0:43:06 > 0:43:11coalition with Labour, as they were in Scotland for a while, than being
0:43:11 > 0:43:15in bed with the Tories. He's trying to reposition himself as the voice
0:43:15 > 0:43:22of opposition inside the Government. That was what the speech was about.
0:43:22 > 0:43:27This time last year he was saying he loves David Cameron so much, now
0:43:27 > 0:43:30he's saying the Tories are wicked they want to abolish human rights,
0:43:30 > 0:43:35but don't worry us Liberal Democrats won't let them do it. It
0:43:35 > 0:43:42is not plausible situation. Are we looking at a one-term deputy Prime
0:43:42 > 0:43:46Minister, would you imagine? would imagine so, yes. Everything
0:43:46 > 0:43:52is so up for grabs at the moment. What you have, actually, is a
0:43:52 > 0:43:57political system that's in a state of flux in itself. At the time of
0:43:57 > 0:44:02the expenses scandal, and the last election, the two party system was
0:44:02 > 0:44:06on its knees. The Liberal Democrats who were offering alternatives have,
0:44:06 > 0:44:10instead, been co-opted by one party to prop up the two-party system
0:44:10 > 0:44:15they were supposed to be against. The whole thing is a bit like the
0:44:15 > 0:44:20banks, you have this sort of zombie political system, marching on, with
0:44:20 > 0:44:27Nick Clegg being the very person who was supposed to provide an
0:44:27 > 0:44:31alternative, propping up this two- party system, of tit for tat. He's
0:44:31 > 0:44:35trying to change them all to British politics. But the Tories
0:44:35 > 0:44:39have proved toxic for the Liberal Democrats, they have lost half of
0:44:39 > 0:44:42their support. The polls suggest he would lose three quarters of his
0:44:43 > 0:44:47MPs through the next election. They are putting on a brave face. He's
0:44:47 > 0:44:52trying to remould the party along liberal lines, saying they have
0:44:52 > 0:44:56existed for 360 years, they haven't, it is as long as Kylie Minogue's
0:44:56 > 0:45:03music cretaceous and they will be probably outlasted by it, the way
0:45:03 > 0:45:06things are going. It is interesting he has chosen the 350 years,
0:45:06 > 0:45:11because he has taken the social element of the Liberal Democrats
0:45:11 > 0:45:18out of history today. He's saying forget the Social Democrats, we are
0:45:18 > 0:45:24the old Gladstone party. This is how he wants to go, he thinks he
0:45:24 > 0:45:28can lure Tory voters. He was trying to carve that for him. What do you
0:45:28 > 0:45:32think? I think Tory voters have been thin on the ground since 197,
0:45:32 > 0:45:37so the Tory voters he thinks he's going to lure, I'm not really sure
0:45:37 > 0:45:47where they are going to come from. I don't think it is a strategy that
0:45:47 > 0:45:47
0:45:47 > 0:45:54can work. I think that the death of the Social Democratic wing of the
0:45:54 > 0:46:01party is a very sad and tragic thing. I do think it is what
0:46:01 > 0:46:06Britain needs in the future. So what's happened here with the
0:46:06 > 0:46:10coalition and with Clegg, it really makes me feel sort of sad and
0:46:10 > 0:46:14worried for the future. It sound as if you are on the verge of tears?
0:46:15 > 0:46:18No, I'm not on the verge of tears. But I really do think, it is easy
0:46:19 > 0:46:24to laugh at and to sneer and be angry, but it is a very, very
0:46:24 > 0:46:30serious thing that is happening, it is a very awful, hollowing out of
0:46:30 > 0:46:36an already very hollow political system that we are seeing here.