:00:09. > :00:14.They told us there was six weeks to save the euro, those six weeks are
:00:14. > :00:18.up, what have they to show for it? In Cannes the masters of Europe
:00:18. > :00:21.have failed to find anyone to pay for their bailout. As we go on air,
:00:21. > :00:24.in Greece the parliament is voting on whether to topple the Government
:00:24. > :00:28.that agreed to accept it. Back there the Greek Prime Minister
:00:28. > :00:33.is still fighting for his political life, many MPs have already written
:00:34. > :00:40.him off, but he doesn't seem to have got the message.
:00:40. > :00:44.At the G20, there is no deal, because every time they try to put
:00:44. > :00:48.figures on a bait youl deal, they raun against the will of their -
:00:48. > :00:51.they ran up against the will of their own electorates. The finger
:00:51. > :01:01.is pointing at Germany, we have a senior member of Angela Merkel's
:01:01. > :01:04.
:01:04. > :01:08.Good evening. As we go on air this evening, a vote over 1,000 miles
:01:08. > :01:13.away could dictate all our futures. In Athens the parliament will
:01:13. > :01:17.decide if it still has confidence in the Prime Minister. Man who has
:01:17. > :01:21.led his own country and other countries around the houses in a
:01:21. > :01:24.series of contradictory statements in the last few days. In Cannes the
:01:25. > :01:31.summit that was meant to bring definitive results, has brought
:01:31. > :01:39.little but of a firmations of the blieldingly offous - affirmation of
:01:39. > :01:43.the blindingly obvious. We go to Paul Mason in Athens. The
:01:43. > :01:46.MPs started voting a short time ago, they were supposed to start at the
:01:46. > :01:51.top of the hour, they were late. Many people said that was bound to
:01:51. > :01:57.happen. This really is going to be quite an extraordinary moment when
:01:57. > :02:06.we do get the result. The Prime Minister's Socialist Party, PASOK,
:02:06. > :02:09.has a wafer-thin majority, but most say there are eight of his own MPs
:02:09. > :02:13.who have indicated they will vote against him. In theory he should
:02:13. > :02:23.lose. He's daring them almost to bring down the Government, knowing
:02:23. > :02:27.
:02:27. > :02:30.that would put this whole eurodeal back into crisis. He's daring that
:02:30. > :02:32.hostile vote. On the other hand, there has been great deal of talk
:02:32. > :02:38.today that they have received assurance that is if they do vote
:02:38. > :02:43.for him and give him, dignity, as it is called, le soon step down and
:02:43. > :02:46.set about negotiating a coalition Government to put that rescue
:02:46. > :02:50.package through. The EU one, through the parliament, with cross-
:02:50. > :02:55.party support, and then get out of the way. We still don't have that
:02:55. > :03:00.result. The parliamentary dynamics are complex. He has sent a shot
:03:00. > :03:06.across the boughs already this evening, that saying snap elections
:03:06. > :03:09.would be a catastrophy? Absolutely, knows that, he knows his own party
:03:09. > :03:14.dissenters know. That no-one wants to take responsibility for this,
:03:14. > :03:17.although he got a probum from Germany and France, for his
:03:17. > :03:21.referendum suggestion, that really has now collapsed as an idea, if
:03:21. > :03:31.you bring down the Government here, either as the opposition or the
:03:31. > :03:36.dissenters within PASOK, then you take that approbium. This is the
:03:36. > :03:40.last gamble he's resting on. Most people think if it works and
:03:40. > :03:44.retains his two-seat majority and scrapes through, it will be only on
:03:44. > :03:48.some sort of promise to go, because he has lost the faith of so many in
:03:48. > :03:52.his own party. Thank you very much. We will be
:03:52. > :03:57.back to Mark a little later as things develop. Let me take you to
:03:57. > :04:02.Cannes. Our economics editor is there. Most of them packed up and
:04:02. > :04:06.gone home, what have they to show for it? Well, they did manage to
:04:06. > :04:11.save the situation with the Greek bailout. They actually managed to
:04:11. > :04:16.pull it out of the fire, 48 hours ago it was entirely possible that
:04:16. > :04:22.Mr Papandreou and his ill-fated referendum proposal could have
:04:22. > :04:26.scuppered the whole euro bailout deal that was agreed a week ago. As
:04:26. > :04:31.we have been hearing it is Mr Papandreou who looks more likely to
:04:31. > :04:35.be history. However, to save the euro bailout deal is to save what,
:04:36. > :04:40.it was always vague, never funded and never guaranteed to work. What
:04:40. > :04:46.they have been trying to do is work out how to raise a trillion plus
:04:46. > :04:49.euros to make the bailout deal real. They looked first to the EFSF, the
:04:49. > :04:54.euro bailout fund signed off last week, China said they didn't want
:04:54. > :04:59.to put money into it, it is too risky. Then they looked to the IMF,
:04:59. > :05:02.here you run into problems of democracy, neither Americans or the
:05:02. > :05:06.Brits could can get extra money for the IMF through their parliaments.
:05:07. > :05:09.What about the ECB, there it is Germany, Mrs Merkel has been under
:05:09. > :05:13.severe pressure today to do something with the ECB, she's
:05:13. > :05:20.telling them she can't, there is a constitutional court, and the
:05:20. > :05:25.parliament. It is just stasus. mood then, between the leaders,
:05:25. > :05:30.given there is nowhere to go with any of these, what was that like?
:05:30. > :05:34.It has been quite bitter. And remember the world needs
:05:34. > :05:37.rebalancing, the world is in crisis and facing a growth crisis. You can
:05:37. > :05:41.only rebalance the world in an orderly way at a place like this,
:05:41. > :05:44.with all the leaders. That was supposed to be their agenda,
:05:44. > :05:48.instead they get knocked off by Greece. But, I think,
:05:48. > :05:54.psychalogically, once they have shouted at Papandreou, and it was
:05:54. > :05:58.literally a balling out he was given, and then he leaves, the
:05:58. > :06:02.atmosphere is soured, they spent two days sniping at each other, you
:06:02. > :06:05.could pick it up in the lip reading of some of their photo
:06:05. > :06:12.opportunities. At the end of the day, the problem has been, they
:06:12. > :06:16.haven't got the will to come together, and go forward. In this
:06:16. > :06:20.situation, as in diplomacy, in economics if you don't go forward
:06:20. > :06:23.you go back wards. Last night George Osborne said to me I think
:06:23. > :06:27.we will have numbers for the bailout part of the programme
:06:27. > :06:32.before you go on Newsnight. They have got none. Their expectations
:06:32. > :06:39.have been dashed even over the space of 24 hours. It has soured
:06:39. > :06:43.things, as I have been seeing today. These are not the faces of happy
:06:43. > :06:49.people. The G20 leaders left Cannes tonight knowing they have averted a
:06:49. > :06:52.Greek disaster, but only stored up a wider European one maybe. As for
:06:52. > :07:00.a strategic rebalancing of the world, they hardly had time to
:07:00. > :07:05.think about it. There are a lot of institutions here in Europe. I
:07:05. > :07:10.think, I'm not sure whether it was Sarkozy or Merkel, or Barroso, or
:07:10. > :07:14.somebody, they joked with me that I had gotten a crash course in
:07:14. > :07:20.European politics over the last several days. And there are a lot
:07:20. > :07:30.of meetings here in Europe as well. But, for all the meetings, they
:07:30. > :07:31.
:07:31. > :07:41.achieved very little. The commune Kay confirmed that Italy would the
:07:41. > :07:52.
:07:52. > :07:57.The aim of the IMF moves was to allow the fund to get around the
:07:57. > :08:01.problem that nobody's parliament, not Britain's, not the USA's, wants
:08:01. > :08:07.to vote more money through for the general fund. A point Mr Cameron
:08:07. > :08:11.rammed home. We are ready to expand the resources of the IMF, as that
:08:11. > :08:15.becomes necessary resourcing the IMF is not a substitute for the
:08:15. > :08:18.eurozone dealing with its own issues and problems. Chancellor
:08:18. > :08:24.Merkel complained bitterly about the lack of outside support for the
:08:24. > :08:28.EFSF, the bailout fund, and then left, early. Meanwhile, the bond
:08:28. > :08:33.markets pushed Italy's borrowing costs to its crisis high, and left
:08:34. > :08:38.the ECB as the only buyer. To hold the line, Governments have pushed
:08:38. > :08:42.international pressure to its limits. Last week Angela Merkel
:08:42. > :08:46.phoned the Italian President to express doubts about Mr
:08:46. > :08:51.Berlusconi's Government. And President Sarkozy had put massive
:08:51. > :08:55.personal pressure on Greece. Prompting this question.
:08:55. > :08:58.I said it is evident that he and Mrs Merkel are trying to change the
:08:58. > :09:04.Governments of Italy and Greece, how is that just, and once you have
:09:04. > :09:08.started, where will it stop? TRANSLATION: I'm quite sure that
:09:08. > :09:12.you are wrong, very wrong. We didn't want to change the
:09:12. > :09:18.Governments, either in Greece or in Italy. That's not the role that we
:09:18. > :09:21.play. That's not my idea of democracy either. But it is quite
:09:21. > :09:25.clear that in Europe, and the perhaps that you come from an
:09:25. > :09:32.island, means you can't understand the subtlies of European
:09:32. > :09:36.construction. I'm sorry to say that so frankly.
:09:36. > :09:41.There are some rules to be respected, if we don't abide by
:09:41. > :09:46.that rules, you have to leave Europe, it is as simple as that.
:09:46. > :09:51.be fair, after a week like this, we're all struggling to understand
:09:51. > :09:58.the complexties of Europe. Joining me now to discuss what we have
:09:58. > :10:02.heard from both Athens and Cannes, Angela Merkel's Chief Whip in the
:10:02. > :10:06.German parliament, and a former Labour minister to played a key
:10:06. > :10:11.role in rescuing the international banking system in 2008, and from
:10:11. > :10:15.New York, the financier who has negotiated on behalf of global
:10:15. > :10:19.banks and sovereign debt crises around the world. If I can start
:10:19. > :10:23.with you, we come away from a summit that was meant to be saving
:10:23. > :10:27.the euro, with very little achieved? May I remind you that
:10:27. > :10:31.last week, in the Brussels summit, a lot was achieved. It was a very
:10:31. > :10:36.convincing package. The stock markets were jubilant, and then
:10:36. > :10:41.there was the surprise in announcing a Greek referendum. We
:10:41. > :10:47.have worked very hard, the last couple of days, to keep control of
:10:47. > :10:49.things, going on in Greece. To make clear we are still committed to the
:10:50. > :10:53.rescue package that was agreed in Brussels. There are some things
:10:53. > :10:57.that you can't control, which is what's happening in the Athens
:10:57. > :11:02.parliament, there are some things you can control, which is where the
:11:02. > :11:06.money comes from the bailout, the G20 has dolg done nothing to agree
:11:06. > :11:11.that - has done nothing to agree that? We are organising the money
:11:12. > :11:17.in the most efficient way. There was one diversion of opinion as far
:11:17. > :11:22.as the involvement of the ECB is concerned. From a German point of
:11:22. > :11:26.view we have always maintained this is a sovereign debt crisis, and we
:11:26. > :11:32.can't cure it by creating more sovereign debt. Why did Angela
:11:32. > :11:36.Merkel walk out early, China said no, the ECB is refusing to do it,
:11:36. > :11:41.that is surely the simplest answer to this? It is not. We have managed
:11:41. > :11:44.to establish very impressive amounts of money in the European
:11:44. > :11:49.financial support facility, we have agreed last week on some
:11:49. > :11:53.instruments to leverage it, in order to use it more efficiently,
:11:53. > :11:57.and now we have a serious debate with the IMF. This could be over if
:11:58. > :12:03.the ECB stepped in. If a European Central Bank is not prepared to
:12:03. > :12:10.bail out a European problem, what's it for? The problem is, however,
:12:10. > :12:14.that if the ECB would do it, we would be ready to generate an
:12:14. > :12:17.unlimited amount of money, potentially. This would be in
:12:17. > :12:21.contradiction to our stability philosophy. What we have learned
:12:21. > :12:30.from the crisis is that states have spent too much money over the last
:12:30. > :12:34.30 years, and now we cannot answer it by inspiring inflation by the
:12:34. > :12:39.ECB. That is why you need the Central Bank to step in?
:12:39. > :12:44.Central Bank can't step in this very moment, that is why we have
:12:44. > :12:48.created the European financial support facility. What do you bring
:12:48. > :12:52.to this problem, what would you do with it? I think while I have a lot
:12:52. > :12:58.of respect for the work that Peter does, I would disagree with the
:12:58. > :13:03.point that he makes, that the EFSF brought an impressive amount of
:13:03. > :13:08.money. The thing about the summit, the eurozone summit that was held
:13:08. > :13:12.last week, was that not a single new additional cent was committed
:13:12. > :13:15.by eurozone countries. The idea there was you take the money
:13:15. > :13:21.already committed and you go out into the markets, or go to the
:13:21. > :13:24.Chinese and you get them to lend you four or five times what you
:13:24. > :13:27.yourself committed, without recourse to the stronger countries.
:13:27. > :13:31.So everybody is meant to do what the eurozone countries are not
:13:31. > :13:35.prepared to do themselves, which is lend to the weaker countries with
:13:35. > :13:39.no recourse to the stronger countries. China was right to say
:13:40. > :13:45.no? I think China was right to say no in some forms. There was a very
:13:45. > :13:50.sensible proposal put forward, to be discussed at the G20, for SDRs,
:13:50. > :13:54.to be lent to the EFSF, and that was, in fact, blocked by Germany,
:13:54. > :13:59.because they didn't want to lend any more one to the EFSF. Briefly
:13:59. > :14:04.to come back on that point? We have made a strong commitment to our
:14:04. > :14:09.national parliament, that there is a limit of 211 billion euro, to be
:14:09. > :14:14.lent to the EFSF, by Germany. This is an incredible amount of money to
:14:14. > :14:18.support other countries. This is a very clear indication by our
:14:18. > :14:22.parliament that we have to find a solution to the crisis, together.
:14:22. > :14:27.There are other countries in Europe, like the UK, we are all affected,
:14:27. > :14:30.if this crisis gets out of control. Therefore, we have to prove
:14:30. > :14:37.solidarity, it is a global crisis, we have to provide a global
:14:37. > :14:40.solution to it. Let's talk to Bill Rhodes, a global solution,
:14:40. > :14:44.President Obama was shaking his head at the prospect of the IMF to
:14:44. > :14:48.be involved. Is this your problem and Europe should find the
:14:49. > :14:52.solution? We have to remember that the markets are more interlinked
:14:52. > :14:55.than ever. What happens in Europe and Greece affects the rorld
:14:56. > :14:59.markets. The Chinese are very interested in what happens, because
:14:59. > :15:04.the largest export market is Europe. What they are concerned about is
:15:04. > :15:08.how any money that they may put forward would be used. I think the
:15:08. > :15:14.IMF is the vehicle, the anchor, that was the anchor for us in the
:15:14. > :15:18.Latin American debt crisis, the Asian financial crisis, the
:15:18. > :15:21.problems with Turkey in 2001 what I would like to see is a trust fund
:15:21. > :15:27.set up, not just for southern Europe, but we have to remember the
:15:27. > :15:30.problems of northern Africa and elsewhere. And make the IMF the
:15:30. > :15:33.anchor again. What is very important that comes out of Greece
:15:33. > :15:40.is a Government that is unified, and can implement the programme
:15:40. > :15:43.that my colleagues are talking with about, if you cannot get a
:15:43. > :15:47.Government that can convince its own people to move forward and
:15:47. > :15:50.implement this programme, then we have a problem that is bigger than
:15:50. > :15:55.we perceive now. Let me ask you, we are treating George Papandreou,
:15:55. > :16:00.some people are treating Papandreou like he's a bit of a ranting
:16:00. > :16:04.lunatic. What if the whole thing was perfectly orchestrated to get a
:16:04. > :16:10.better deal from the banks, is that conceivable? I think what he's
:16:10. > :16:14.trying to do is to try to get some sort of a Government, whether he be
:16:14. > :16:19.involved as Prime Minister, or a unity Government, or even a
:16:19. > :16:22.Government with someone like Lucas Papademos, a former vice-president
:16:22. > :16:25.of the European Central Bank, that can carry forth this programme. I
:16:25. > :16:29.think he should have done it earlier. As far as the banks go, I
:16:29. > :16:35.think it is very important, and the stability fund has to move on this
:16:35. > :16:38.very rapidly s to support and recapitalise the Greek banks.
:16:38. > :16:42.Greece has gone through three years of negative growth, and projected
:16:42. > :16:47.to go into a fourth. You can't expect a people of the country to
:16:47. > :16:51.move forward if they don't see growth. The key to growth as far as
:16:51. > :16:55.the economy goes, right now, in Greece, is the banking system. I
:16:55. > :17:00.think one of the first measures that has to be taken by this newly
:17:00. > :17:03.constituted stability fund, is to help recapitalise the Greek banking
:17:03. > :17:08.system. How long can this kind of instability go on for? It really
:17:08. > :17:13.worries the longer it goes on. The first reason is, it costs more.
:17:13. > :17:17.Actually what would have been a 200 or 300 billion euro problem, is now
:17:17. > :17:21.a one or two trillion euro problem of the people who will pay the
:17:21. > :17:24.price of that are real people losing their jobs, investors are
:17:24. > :17:28.too frightened and nervous to put in money and create jobs and
:17:28. > :17:33.employment. Who do you think is the biggest obstacle for this, do you
:17:33. > :17:36.think it is on the Greek side or the lack of leadership in Europe?
:17:36. > :17:39.Greece is 2% of the eurozone economy. That is something we have
:17:39. > :17:44.to remember, and we have to talk about the real problem as well,
:17:44. > :17:48.which is Italy. Italy is too big to fail. There isn't a firewall of
:17:48. > :17:51.sufficient liquidity that has been created to help Italy, and 200
:17:51. > :17:55.billion euros from Germany is not sufficient for that purpose. The
:17:55. > :18:02.second thing is, it is Italy's fault, because they need to get
:18:02. > :18:06.serious about reform. You need reform to, and you need liquidity
:18:06. > :18:12.to bridge yourself to the reform, those two things. What is Germany
:18:12. > :18:17.scared of here, is it a very emotional atavistic response thaw
:18:17. > :18:22.don't want to be seen as the dominating force in Europe? On the
:18:22. > :18:27.one hand we are prepared to prove solidarity. European integration is
:18:27. > :18:31.a very emotional thing to us, it means the happiest years of German
:18:31. > :18:36.history, the last 60 years, without devastating wars. Therefore, we are
:18:36. > :18:39.prepared to provide the highest amount of money ever provided by a
:18:39. > :18:47.sovereign country in order to help and support others. The second
:18:48. > :18:50.point is, Germany has suffered twice from a devastating inflation.
:18:51. > :18:56.That was the last 100 years. Therefore stability means something
:18:56. > :18:59.to us emotional. We tried to combine both of those approach, on
:18:59. > :19:03.the one hand solidarity and the other stability. As you have
:19:03. > :19:06.mentioned, we have to build firewalls, we have to prove
:19:07. > :19:15.solidarity. But we need these reforms, and for the time being,
:19:15. > :19:19.neither in Italy, nor in Greece, unfortunately, there is a clear
:19:19. > :19:23.commitment that will reform and encourage markets and remove doubts.
:19:23. > :19:27.This is where we have to provide loadership France and Germany
:19:27. > :19:30.together. I completely agree about the need for reform. The single
:19:30. > :19:34.biggest thing to change the European crisis is Italy being
:19:34. > :19:38.prepared to reform and Berlusconi being prepared to leave. However,
:19:38. > :19:42.why do you deny yourself the capacity to provide the liquidity,
:19:42. > :19:46.even if you don't give it to them until they reform. By saying you
:19:46. > :19:51.are not prepared to have that much capacity to provide liquidity, you
:19:51. > :19:54.are spooking the markets, that is the real problem? It is a clear
:19:54. > :20:00.argument, we have an mechanism to provide the money. If we increase
:20:00. > :20:04.the money to the fund, France would lose its triple A Tate tus as the
:20:04. > :20:14.next country. As soon as - status, as the next country. Conditions
:20:14. > :20:14.
:20:14. > :20:18.France loses it then what. Go to the IMF. Can I get a word in
:20:18. > :20:22.edgeways. That is right in the epbs of timing, we have to get on and
:20:22. > :20:28.get it done, this contagion can spread even further than we are
:20:28. > :20:34.seeing. It is starting to affect markets worldwide, even in Asia. We
:20:34. > :20:42.need to get on and get it done. That is why I suggested the role of
:20:42. > :20:47.the IMF as Anwar chore and help. - as an anchor, first help is Belo in
:20:48. > :20:51.to be monitored. We will pick up with that - Berlusconi in to be
:20:51. > :20:55.monitored. We will pick that up soon. Give us
:20:55. > :21:05.a sense Mark of what people in Greece think George Papandreou's
:21:05. > :21:07.
:21:07. > :21:10.game plan has been in the saga? need wait no longer. We have heard
:21:10. > :21:14.news, the votes are counted and he scraped home. We know Eva Kaili,
:21:14. > :21:19.the MP from his party, that we have seen in our reports last night, for
:21:19. > :21:27.example, she was a doubter, she voted with him. The interesting
:21:27. > :21:32.question is, is he still in the driving seat of his party? If he
:21:32. > :21:36.can carry on, put together a caretaker Government, then he may
:21:36. > :21:40.just last a little longer. But most people think that the price of
:21:40. > :21:45.getting this vote has been to promise he will go, that now looks
:21:46. > :21:51.increasingly inevitable. Thank you very much. Now a quick
:21:51. > :21:55.reaction here, so he stays,'s won that vote, does that make things
:21:56. > :21:58.simpler or more complicated? In the short-term it makes it simpler.
:21:58. > :22:02.There is one vote that really counts, I don't think it really
:22:02. > :22:05.matters about the internal politics of groz, they have to vote to
:22:05. > :22:09.accept - Greece, they have to vote to accept the terms of the package,
:22:09. > :22:13.and then get the funding and not default. That is the important
:22:13. > :22:18.point, that has to be done after the vote of confidence. We know the
:22:18. > :22:22.Greek electorate have, 90%, have no faith at all in the politicians at
:22:22. > :22:27.the moment. Does it matter if he stays or goes? It matters if they
:22:27. > :22:31.are able to form a cross-party Government of National Unity. That
:22:31. > :22:35.is what they should do, and the Government of National Unity should
:22:35. > :22:39.engage in an undoubtful commitment to implement this reform package.
:22:39. > :22:42.It would be a strong signal to the markets. Then if we would have what
:22:42. > :22:47.you described for Italy, it could be the second step, then we could
:22:47. > :22:51.try to reorganise the process in the convincing way. Do you think
:22:51. > :22:57.the specter of global recession has been pushed back in these last few
:22:57. > :23:04.minutes, because of that? I don't think so. It is not sufficient
:23:04. > :23:08.because, as I said, Greece is really small in the scale of things.
:23:08. > :23:14.Global recession is still a threat, and therefore, we have a joint
:23:15. > :23:20.responsibility to take on the challenge. We are going to to go
:23:20. > :23:24.back to Paul in Cannes. Just ask him, Paul, you have heard the vote
:23:24. > :23:30.come in now from Greece, Papandreou has scraped through, it would be
:23:30. > :23:34.too soon to get any reaction there, what are your first thoughts?
:23:34. > :23:37.scrapes through the vote. He still has an economy to run. As I
:23:37. > :23:41.understand it, listening to the debate there in the Greek
:23:42. > :23:46.parliament, as it was happening, as from the translation, it appeared
:23:46. > :23:50.at one point in his rather long speech, he said if we now have an
:23:50. > :23:54.election, our banks will have a run on them, and they will go bust.
:23:54. > :23:59.That is quite a thing for a Prime Minister to say in a life-saving
:23:59. > :24:06.speech. But let's start from that assertion. The Greek banking system,
:24:06. > :24:10.is, effectively, bust, unless the EFSF deal comes through and saves
:24:10. > :24:14.it. We have heard tonight that the Cypriot banking, the Cypriot
:24:14. > :24:22.Government and state is downgraded again. But the Greek banking system
:24:22. > :24:25.needs to be saved. The dynamics in Greece are not just political, as
:24:25. > :24:31.we heard throughout the programme, they are also economic. Every day
:24:31. > :24:35.that goes by, without a political settlement, does increase the
:24:35. > :24:40.economic pressure, both on the Greek banks, the Greek sovereignty.
:24:40. > :24:43.Remember, this week, the IMF and everybody said, you are not getting
:24:43. > :24:47.the money, because of this referendum stunt. That, as far as
:24:47. > :24:51.we know, is still the case. That money has not been given yet. It
:24:51. > :24:56.needs to be given, in order for Greek civil servants draw their
:24:56. > :24:59.wages and for the lights, illuminating the Acropolis, to stay
:24:59. > :25:03.on. That is the situation Papandreou is in. That is the
:25:03. > :25:07.situation his economy is in. I think winning the vote is one thing.
:25:07. > :25:12.I'm steering that very trouble - steering that troubled economy,
:25:12. > :25:16.without it blowing up Italy, which is equally troubled, will be the
:25:16. > :25:21.next task of those two Governments. Thank you very much indeed. We're
:25:21. > :25:24.going to talk now to someone who knows the Greek Prime Minister well,
:25:24. > :25:28.Herakles Polemarchakis, thank you very much for coming in. I know you
:25:28. > :25:30.have just joined us as the vote was read out. I can tell you all the
:25:30. > :25:34.300 members of the parliament support the Government, but the
:25:34. > :25:41.question is whether Papandreou's term as Prime Minister close to the
:25:41. > :25:47.end? You know him well, what do you think is going on here? I heard the
:25:47. > :25:53.remarks before the vote, if I interpret correctly what he said,'s
:25:53. > :25:59.going to meet with the President tomorrow and discuss the formation
:25:59. > :26:05.of a Government of National Unity. He explicitly, or almost explicitly
:26:05. > :26:09.said that this would not need to include him as Prime Minister.
:26:09. > :26:12.you think he will be gone by the end of the month? It is a guess,
:26:13. > :26:16.but yes. What was going on this week, the call for the referendum,
:26:16. > :26:20.the suggestion he was going to step down yesterday, he didn't, then the
:26:20. > :26:24.referendum was gone by the night, what was all that about? Let me
:26:24. > :26:32.make a side remark. Asking him to step down yesterday would have been
:26:32. > :26:36.very bad. Under pressure? Don't forget, his grandfather, with the
:26:36. > :26:41.same name, was elected Prime Minister on the 3rd of November, 48
:26:41. > :26:46.years ago. So the 3rd of November would have been a very bad day to
:26:46. > :26:54.ask him to step down. But leaving this aside, let's talk about the
:26:54. > :26:59.referendum, it was a flawed move. That is clear. Why was it flawed,
:26:59. > :27:02.because it introduced the specter of uncertainty for two months at
:27:02. > :27:06.that time when world markets, Europe, and groz in particular,
:27:06. > :27:10.could least afford it - Greece in particular, could least afford it.
:27:10. > :27:17.At the same time it compromised the credibility of Papandreou himself,
:27:17. > :27:21.with his European partners, because the reaction that we got implied
:27:21. > :27:25.that they had not been warned of the move. Don't forget our
:27:25. > :27:32.credibility was one of his strong points, vis a vis his predecessor
:27:32. > :27:37.and other politicians. Sorry to interupt, now, who do you think is
:27:37. > :27:40.running Greece? We have heard from our guests that in something like
:27:40. > :27:47.this, time is of the essence, and it gets more expensive by the day
:27:47. > :27:52.for every day it is lost? This is true. My hope is that this vote of
:27:52. > :27:56.confidence will not be in an opportunity to try and roll back
:27:56. > :28:00.the tape to where we were a week ago, or a few months ago, but it
:28:00. > :28:05.would be the first step in the formation of a national unity
:28:05. > :28:08.Government, it is exactly what the country needs. It is the only
:28:08. > :28:13.Government, the only kind of Government that can produce the
:28:13. > :28:17.commitment and the clarity that European partners need from Greece.
:28:17. > :28:20.A momentous week, and pretty hard, in way, to write the headlines that
:28:20. > :28:25.make sense. What do you think European leaders, G20 leaders will
:28:25. > :28:28.be making of this news, does this suggest that leadership is back or
:28:28. > :28:32.it has gone completely? I think they will be relieved in the short-
:28:32. > :28:37.term. They would actually be doing the wrong thing by being relieved.
:28:37. > :28:42.As I say, you have to still win the vote that agrees the conditionality
:28:42. > :28:46.on the package, that therefore allows money to be dispersed, and
:28:46. > :28:50.ensures there isn't a default that is disorderly, that will lead to a
:28:50. > :28:54.run on the banks, and will lead to chaos across the European banking
:28:54. > :28:59.system and have contagion to other countries. Actually, Greece that is
:28:59. > :29:03.to deliver a commitment to reform. Do you think that Greece will
:29:03. > :29:08.accept the bailout first, and do you think it will be able to
:29:08. > :29:10.reform? I'm today much more optimistic than I have been last
:29:10. > :29:19.week. After this announcement of the referendum there was a serious
:29:19. > :29:26.debate, not only in Europe, but also in Greece. May guess now is
:29:26. > :29:31.that the increase is aware of the risk and the responsibility.
:29:31. > :29:36.We have a short preview of next week on Newsnight. Our science
:29:36. > :29:39.editor will report on the dramatic advances being made in how we
:29:39. > :29:44.understand and treat mental illnesses.
:29:44. > :29:47.For decades mental illness has been beyond our understanding. Now
:29:47. > :29:52.scientists think we are on the verge of a revolution. This is what
:29:52. > :29:57.it is all about, the human brain. Scientists are beginning to
:29:57. > :30:02.understand how the brain works and what makes it go wrong.
:30:02. > :30:08.That's all from Newsnight tonight. Bonfire Night might feel a bit
:30:09. > :30:15.different this weekend, Guy Fawkes's face, as reimagined in V
:30:15. > :30:21.For vendetta, has stopped being the face of a failed 17th century
:30:21. > :30:27.terrorist, and into the mask of the Occupy movement. Remember, remember
:30:27. > :30:34.the 5th of November, gunfire, treason, plot, I see no reason why
:30:34. > :30:40.gun power treason should ever be forgot. Guy fauk, guy fauks, it was