:00:08. > :00:12.Welcome to Europe in need, please put your hands in your pockets to
:00:12. > :00:15.help pay off the eurozone's debts. The subject discussed by David
:00:15. > :00:20.Cameron and Angela Merkel today. But is there, at last, any glimmer
:00:20. > :00:29.of a common solution to the problem which could sink us all? My German
:00:29. > :00:33.isn't that good, I think bazooka is a superwafer, no, someone is
:00:33. > :00:37.shaking their head. We will discuss what it means with Conservative MP,
:00:37. > :00:42.Daniel Hannan, German banker, Schmieding, and the journalist,
:00:42. > :00:46.Bronwen Maddox. Sepp Blatter says sorry for suggesting racism could
:00:46. > :00:50.be settled with a handshake. The former England player, Sol Campbell
:00:51. > :00:54.is here to discuss, racism, bigotry and the football leadership. Two
:00:54. > :01:04.British nationals killed in Pakistan, by an American drone
:01:04. > :01:10.
:01:10. > :01:13.strike. How many British volunteers are fighting for Al-Qaeda?
:01:13. > :01:19.Good evening, eurozone leaders aren't as cuddly as Pudsey, but
:01:19. > :01:22.they are looking for every euroor - - Uri owe pound you can spare.
:01:22. > :01:26.Someone will have to stump up. The leader of the biggest economy
:01:26. > :01:31.inside the eurozone, Germany, and the biggest economy outside the
:01:31. > :01:35.eurozone, Britain, met today to try to figure out, what short of an
:01:35. > :01:38.appeal for worldwide loose change, could solve our problems. They were
:01:38. > :01:41.more fluent in decribing the problems than fixing them.
:01:41. > :01:48.OK, you're British, you're in Germany for a crucial meeting, what
:01:48. > :01:57.is the subject you want to avoid? My German isn't that good, bazooka
:01:57. > :02:00.is a superwafer, no, someone is shake their head. The German for
:02:00. > :02:06.bazooka is "tank terror", which is possibly not where you want to go
:02:06. > :02:10.in a vital press conference. But, unfortunately, Europe's financial
:02:10. > :02:17.Baz Zach ka, and its fail -- bazooka, and its failure to fire,
:02:17. > :02:23.is the subject between Britain and Germany. TRANSLATION: As to the
:02:23. > :02:25.question of what choifs weapons are used to deal with financial markets,
:02:25. > :02:28.I believe credibility is gained by using the force and strength you
:02:28. > :02:33.have. The British say we have to use all the force available, I
:02:33. > :02:39.think that is right. But one should not pretend to be more powerful
:02:39. > :02:47.than one actually is. At Brussels, in October, Mrs Measuring mrbg on
:02:47. > :02:55.agreement on the booze zook -- Mrs Merkel won agreed on the bazooka, a
:02:55. > :02:59.one trillion bailout from the EFSF fired from Germany. It went wrong
:02:59. > :03:03.at Cannes, no-one would lend the money. Mr Cameron began pushing for
:03:03. > :03:07.the European Central Bank to lend the money, firing its own bazooka,
:03:07. > :03:11.but it won't. In the meantime, the Governments of Italy and Greece
:03:11. > :03:21.fell. And today, the boss of the European Central Bank said that he
:03:21. > :03:23.
:03:23. > :03:26.would not be firing the bazooka any time soon. We are four weeks after
:03:26. > :03:31.the summit that agreed on the leverageing of resources by factor
:03:31. > :03:35.of up to four or five, that declared the EFSF would be fully
:03:35. > :03:40.operational and all the tools would be used in an effective way to
:03:40. > :03:43.ensure financial stability in the euro area. Where is the
:03:43. > :03:49.implementation of these long- standing decisions? Which
:03:49. > :03:54.translates as, you fire your own bazooka! Germany knows saving the
:03:54. > :03:58.euro is vital to its own survival as a manufacturing and export giant.
:03:58. > :04:03.But its workers believe prosperity and stability come from low
:04:03. > :04:10.inflation and a credible Central Bank. So using the ECB to save the
:04:10. > :04:16.euro, is, for Mrs Merkel, politically impossible. I think if
:04:16. > :04:20.Merkel agrees to involve the ECB, which is against the EU treaty, by
:04:20. > :04:25.the way, she will go through a vote of confidence and she will lose it,
:04:25. > :04:28.and the Government will break down. Instead, the Germans are
:04:28. > :04:32.concentrating on a long-term plan. The German position was outlined in
:04:32. > :04:36.a document from the German Foreign Office, leaked to the Telegraph. It
:04:36. > :04:42.calls for political union, a stability commissioner with power
:04:42. > :04:47.to intervene in national budgets, and the power to impose orderly
:04:47. > :04:53.default and exit on eurozone members. The problem s that needs a
:04:53. > :04:56.treaty change, and as the Mercedes deposited Mr Cameron in Berlin, it
:04:56. > :05:00.is clear the Germans are determined to do it with or without us.
:05:00. > :05:04.German position is, we would like to keep the British in, we would
:05:04. > :05:08.rather do the new treaty with all 27, it is simple letter and easier,
:05:08. > :05:13.however, if the British are going to be -- simpler and easier,
:05:13. > :05:17.however if the British are going to be demanding on powers coming back,
:05:17. > :05:21.then we will go along with a eurozone treaty with a few hours
:05:21. > :05:26.who want to join the eurozone. There is diverge begins between
:05:26. > :05:33.Paris and Berlin I I have -- deverence between Paris and Berlin.
:05:33. > :05:37.But I have no doubt if the British block the treaty, the Germans will
:05:37. > :05:41.go ahead with something that doesn't include the British. It is
:05:41. > :05:45.not whether Britain is in or out of the group that writes the treaty,
:05:45. > :05:49.the problem is time, the Germans are determined to find a strategic
:05:49. > :05:54.solution, the markets need an immediate solution. In the end, it
:05:54. > :05:59.comes down a clash between two implacable forces, the bond market,
:05:59. > :06:03.and the German electorate. That has left David Cameron struggling to
:06:03. > :06:08.contain his frustration, and even some German commentators are
:06:08. > :06:12.prepared to accept there is a timing issue. She said today in
:06:12. > :06:18.Berlin, "step by step", while the British Prime Minister is talking
:06:18. > :06:22.about a bazooka, it is a crisis, as you say, markets move in seconds.
:06:22. > :06:29.You have to take the decisions now, you can't wait. In this sense,
:06:29. > :06:32.calling Mrs Merkel Madame Dithering is quite the right term. It is not
:06:32. > :06:36.changed, she is getting a bit more quick in her decision, she's still
:06:36. > :06:45.very slow. Having that in mind, Germany is the decisive and crucial
:06:45. > :06:50.player in this game, you could call it a bit scary, yeah.
:06:50. > :06:55.It was Mr Cameron who wanted this meeting, diplomatically he came
:06:55. > :07:01.away with a smile and a handshake, for all his talk of a bazooka, it
:07:01. > :07:06.is Germany that le l decide if and when it gets fired -- will decide
:07:06. > :07:11.if and when it gets fired. Have German relations improved, with us
:07:11. > :07:15.is Holger Schmieding from the Berenberg Bank, and Bronwen Maddox
:07:15. > :07:18.and Daniel Hannan, the Conservative Are Britain and Germany any closer
:07:18. > :07:21.tonight as a result of the meetings? At least to what we have
:07:21. > :07:28.heard about the meetings, they probably have not moved much closer,
:07:28. > :07:31.no. They are far apart on major issues. The German conclusion from
:07:31. > :07:36.the eurozone crisis that we need more Europe, the British conclusion
:07:36. > :07:40.seems to be we need to move a bit further apart from the eurozone. So
:07:40. > :07:45.that is a significant clash, and as to technical details, financial
:07:45. > :07:49.markets, transaction tax, they don't seem to agree. Do you accept
:07:49. > :07:53.that analysis, that in other words, there are the smaller things like
:07:53. > :07:56.the financial transaction tax, sometimes called the Tobin tax, but
:07:56. > :08:02.on the big picture they are miles apart? I think that is right. I
:08:02. > :08:07.thought it was a fabulously disingenious speech by David
:08:07. > :08:11.Cameron. He rightly said Europe's problems could be sorted by
:08:11. > :08:15.pledging enormous amounts of money, and he doesn't want Britain to do
:08:15. > :08:18.that, he wants the Germans to do it. And the Germans are threatening
:08:18. > :08:22.saying if you don't join if we might come at the City of London
:08:22. > :08:28.with transaction tax. Why do you think the British and Germans are
:08:28. > :08:32.so far apart on this, where as on some big picture matters like
:08:32. > :08:35.competitiveness and fiscal discipline, you know, not rewarding
:08:35. > :08:40.bad behaviour, moral hazarz, philosophically, they should be a
:08:40. > :08:44.lot closer, shouldn't they? If it weren't for the wretched EU we
:08:44. > :08:48.would be getting on famously, they are the country with whom we have
:08:48. > :08:51.most in common in continental Europe. It is not for us to decide
:08:51. > :08:55.how the eurozone settles its problems. If they were to ask my
:08:55. > :08:59.advice, I would say allow countries to leave, allow each country to
:08:59. > :09:04.suit its monetary policy to its own need, allow the Mediterranean
:09:04. > :09:07.states to price their way back into the market. I'm not a Greek, German
:09:07. > :09:11.or Austrian or Finnish legislator, if they have made the decision to
:09:11. > :09:15.keep the euro together, at whatever cost, that is matter for them. What
:09:15. > :09:20.I kind extraordinary is Britain is not only investing political
:09:20. > :09:24.capital in proposing this idea, but actual capital. We are on the hook
:09:24. > :09:28.so far for �12.5 billion in the Irish, Greek and Portuguese
:09:28. > :09:33.bailouts, that is before you get to Italy. Is that a problem for
:09:33. > :09:37.Germany, to go back to the start of what Hannan was suggesting there,
:09:37. > :09:41.that actually, on many issues fissofically, should be much closer
:09:41. > :09:47.to Britain, and if it wasn't, -- philosophically, should be much
:09:47. > :09:51.closer to Britain, and if it wasn't for the EU, links with Greece and
:09:51. > :09:55.Italy, there wouldn't be the problems? The problem is Britain
:09:55. > :09:58.has refused to actually join in. The Germans would love the British
:09:58. > :10:03.in, more involved in Europe, ideally within the eurozone, at
:10:03. > :10:05.least that was the original German idea, so that within the European
:10:05. > :10:09.institutions the kind of philosophical similarities between
:10:09. > :10:13.Britain and Germany, more competitiveness, would gain the
:10:13. > :10:22.upper hand. But Britain has decided to stay some what aloof. Could I
:10:22. > :10:27.suggest you are as likely to get as -- that as likely as Hannan is to
:10:27. > :10:30.get the renegotiation of the treaties? The treaties are to be
:10:30. > :10:34.renegotiated, and there is a solution to the German and British
:10:34. > :10:38.difficulty, namely that Britain agrees to pass an amendment to the
:10:38. > :10:41.EU treaties that allows Germany and France and the other 15 countries
:10:41. > :10:45.to move closer together, and in return Germany and France will
:10:45. > :10:49.allow Britain to have a few more opt-outs. Would that be good enough
:10:49. > :10:53.for you, what do you want on that? Ultimately it shouldn't be for me
:10:53. > :10:57.to decide, or for you to decide, or even Angela Merkel and David
:10:57. > :11:00.Cameron to decide, it should be more the electorate as a whole to
:11:00. > :11:05.decide. Ultimately whatever renegotiation comes out will need
:11:05. > :11:08.be put to the country with a "no" vote treated as a vote to leave the
:11:08. > :11:12.EU. That is the only guarantee. Something I would like is something
:11:12. > :11:15.along the lines of the Swiss, you are in the free market but you have
:11:15. > :11:19.opted out of the political structures that go with it. You are
:11:19. > :11:23.affected by it, because it is so big, we would be affected by it, we
:11:23. > :11:29.wouldn't have a voice in it, like the Swiss? Well, they seem to be
:11:29. > :11:33.scraping by some kind of miserable half existence out there, ditto the
:11:33. > :11:37.Norwegians. Of course we would lose influence over the internal affairs
:11:37. > :11:41.of the countries in the tighter union. That is unquestionably the
:11:41. > :11:44.case, just as we have no internal influence over the affairs of Japan,
:11:44. > :11:51.Singapore, or the Congo. That is the price you pay. But as long as
:11:51. > :11:54.you are in a free market, within the EFTA terms and the WTO terms,
:11:54. > :11:59.that is what most people in the country would vote for, that is
:11:59. > :12:04.what we thought we were voting for in 1975. This is fascinating, we
:12:04. > :12:08.have these two countries, we have accepted there is a degree of
:12:08. > :12:12.philosophical agreement, these two questions are completely totally
:12:12. > :12:16.poles apart? They are completely different. I think there is a
:12:16. > :12:20.philosophical difference between Germany and Britain on views of
:12:20. > :12:23.Europe. Then there is the very sharp difference that we began this
:12:23. > :12:30.discussion with about who will pay for this, that is really the first
:12:30. > :12:33.one. At heart I think this is rather a brutal clash about money.
:12:33. > :12:37.But then the philosophy comes after. That it is dangerous game for
:12:37. > :12:42.Germany and France to push Britain to the point where Cameron's
:12:42. > :12:46.yooptics begin to say let's take Britain right out. -- Euro-sceptics
:12:46. > :12:49.begin to say let as take Britain out. In Germany do you feel you
:12:49. > :12:52.have to be anchored into it, and you can't do what the European
:12:52. > :12:56.Central Bank does. Mario Draghi, not just the British, is suggestk a
:12:56. > :13:00.real lack of leadership and you have -- suggesting a real lack of
:13:00. > :13:05.leadership and you have to get your act together, you meaning Germany?
:13:05. > :13:07.Going back to the debt crisis, the big difference between the eurozone
:13:07. > :13:11.and Britain is Britain has a Central Bank which helps the
:13:11. > :13:14.Government pay its debts, massively, where as the European Central Bank
:13:14. > :13:17.is refusing that. If the European Central Bank were to behave like
:13:17. > :13:21.the Bank of England, the eurozone debt crisis would probably be over
:13:21. > :13:26.in a second. So, indeed, there is a philosophical difference in how you
:13:26. > :13:30.treat your Central Bank, and how your Central Bank is viewed.
:13:30. > :13:33.there, for the other part of that, which we heard in Paul Mason's
:13:33. > :13:37.report, is there something about the German character, or the
:13:37. > :13:41.political system, which means Angela Merkel cannot be as decisive
:13:42. > :13:46.as people want her to be on this? She has to take a significant part
:13:47. > :13:51.of her voters with her, on all the major things. That indeed means she
:13:51. > :13:54.can't move very far. She cannot, for instance, just endorse the ECB
:13:54. > :13:58.buying loads of Government bonds, without having some backing, some
:13:58. > :14:03.where else in the country. My view remains, if worst comes to worst,
:14:03. > :14:07.and we may be there within a few weeks, the European Central Bank
:14:07. > :14:12.will intervene massively. Angela Merkel will probably back them, but,
:14:12. > :14:16.then we will have a little uproar in Germany, still the thing will be
:14:16. > :14:18.settled. Do you share that view, that is the likeliest thing that
:14:18. > :14:24.will happen, in other words, we will muddle through and there will
:14:24. > :14:27.be a lot of mudling, and not much through? I think it is the
:14:27. > :14:32.likeliest thing, I don't think it is the right thing to do. I'm not
:14:32. > :14:37.fan of quanative easing in this country, inflation is a way of
:14:37. > :14:43.punishing people who have done the right thing, and I wouldn't wish it
:14:43. > :14:47.to allies in the continent. I think it is not right to impoverish
:14:47. > :14:49.people which the project means, it is better if the countries were
:14:49. > :14:56.able to suit their economies to their needs, and very soon the
:14:56. > :15:00.problems would be over. But the elites of Europe are sacrificing
:15:00. > :15:03.the prosperity of their people for this European dream. Do you think
:15:03. > :15:11.David Cameron's voice in Europe is any stronger than it was this
:15:11. > :15:15.morning, or the opposite? I think it is stronger than it seems. There
:15:15. > :15:19.is all this talk of Britain on the side lines, but Germany and France
:15:19. > :15:23.do want Britain to play a part in this. That is what today's press
:15:23. > :15:28.conference and the jokes were about. Trying to make sure that Britain
:15:28. > :15:30.helps out. With money as well as anything else. The likelihood of
:15:30. > :15:36.that, the implication of everything we have been discussing is it is
:15:36. > :15:39.not going to happen, in which case. It won't happen unless we get much
:15:39. > :15:44.closer to a crisis. On that narrow point about David Cameron's
:15:44. > :15:47.influence, or the UK's influence, now and in the future? The British
:15:47. > :15:50.influence on events in the continent is extremely small, to
:15:50. > :15:54.put it mildly. I don't think it is the eurozone asking Britain for
:15:54. > :15:57.money, what the eurozone is simply asking, dear Britain, we in the
:15:57. > :16:03.eurozone want to forge a closer European, for that we have to
:16:03. > :16:07.change the EU treaty, and please, dear Britain, ratify the new EU
:16:07. > :16:10.treaties which will help us in the eurozone to integrate in the way we
:16:10. > :16:15.want. Which is saying, Britain please don't get in the way. But,
:16:15. > :16:18.do you think Britain speaks absolutely with one voice on this,
:16:18. > :16:21.Nick Clegg, a coalition, he has a slightly different view and
:16:21. > :16:25.attitude and has been commenting on this today? But that's the case in
:16:25. > :16:28.every country. You have different opinions, in Britain you have
:16:28. > :16:32.interesting clashes between Euro- sceptics and some remaining sort of
:16:32. > :16:36.Europhiles, but that is normal politics. This was making it sound
:16:36. > :16:39.as if we have months and months to sort this out, to redraw the
:16:40. > :16:44.constitution. There is a crisis between where we are now, and the
:16:44. > :16:48.kind of constitutional redrawing that you are decribing. In that
:16:48. > :16:51.crisis it seems to me they do need Britain. The two points is the
:16:52. > :16:56.immediate crisis is ultimately for the European Central Bank to solve.
:16:56. > :17:02.The long-term issues are then for the new EU, rewritten EU treaties.
:17:02. > :17:05.Thank you very much all of you. The European Union is not the only
:17:05. > :17:09.international organisation having difficulties, FIFA President, Sepp
:17:10. > :17:13.Blatter, seems to have moved seemlessly into the role recently
:17:13. > :17:23.vacated by Silvio Berlusconi, managing to say some of the
:17:23. > :17:24.
:17:24. > :17:28.stupidist things on world stage. He seems to have been suggesting that
:17:28. > :17:31.racism issues can be solved by handshake on the pitch. Is it going
:17:31. > :17:41.way? A man who used to be President of
:17:41. > :17:44.the Society of Friends of Suspenders, might not adapt to 21st
:17:44. > :17:49.century customs, after advising female players to wear tighter
:17:49. > :17:55.shorts to get more attention. And telling gay fans going to Qatar, to
:17:55. > :17:58.avoid having sex, the latest Blatter blunder was offensive in a
:17:58. > :18:01.different way. There is no racism, there is maybe one of the players
:18:01. > :18:05.to another, he has a word or gesture, which is not the correct
:18:05. > :18:10.one. Also the one who is affected by that, he should say it is a game,
:18:10. > :18:13.we are in the game, and at the end of the game we shake hands, this
:18:13. > :18:17.can happen. Blatter's comments followed allegations by the
:18:17. > :18:24.Manchester United player, Patrice Evra, that he had been racially
:18:24. > :18:28.abused by Liverpool's Luis Suarez. The Uraguayan has been charged by
:18:28. > :18:31.the FA. With similar claims against John Terry still are under
:18:31. > :18:37.investigation. The timing could be more sensitive. Today there was an
:18:37. > :18:47.attempt to calm the storm. sorry, I regret that my statements
:18:47. > :18:49.
:18:49. > :18:52.earlier this week have resulted in an unfortunate situation, very much.
:18:52. > :18:55.Assuming Mr Blatter does not return to the presidency of Friends of
:18:56. > :19:01.Suspenders, he might be sticking to his script a little more in future.
:19:01. > :19:04.Here to react to all of that is the former England, Arsenal and Spurs
:19:04. > :19:10.footballer. It was a pretty groveling apology, it looked
:19:11. > :19:16.prepared, is that enough? For me it doesn't wash. For the head of FIFA
:19:16. > :19:20.to come out with something like that, for me it is shocking. It is
:19:20. > :19:24.astonishing. I'm astonished he's still in the job. In any other
:19:24. > :19:31.industry, if the head of the company comes up with those kind of
:19:31. > :19:37.comments, he's sacked, he's gone in a few days time. For me it really
:19:38. > :19:44.shows FIFA, how they are as a body. The comments he came out with, the
:19:44. > :19:48.ramifications of what he said, you know, it filters down into grass
:19:48. > :19:54.roots football. Little kids playing football, Sunday league, you can
:19:54. > :19:57.say whatever you want, be racist to another opponent and then after the
:19:57. > :20:01.game shake the hand and it is all over. That is not right. Just to be
:20:01. > :20:06.clear, you think he should resign, and if he shouldn't resign he
:20:06. > :20:08.should be kicked out? I think he should step down and do the
:20:09. > :20:13.honourable thing. When things happen on the pitch, sometimes
:20:13. > :20:17.people do stupid things in the heat of the moment, is that any excuse,
:20:17. > :20:24.if that happens on the pitch between players? Yeah, every single
:20:24. > :20:27.time something happens, the heat of the moment, you keep on, are you
:20:27. > :20:31.allowed to racially abuse someone in the heat of the moment? No. If
:20:31. > :20:35.that is the first thing that comes into your mind, not at all, no.
:20:35. > :20:40.do you get round that, there is different types of racial abuse,
:20:40. > :20:43.when you move from Tottenham to Arsenal, you suffered quite a lot
:20:43. > :20:47.of chanting, and abuse. Is it different when it comes from the
:20:47. > :20:51.fans or when it comes on the pitch from another person doing the same?
:20:51. > :20:55.I think from another player is definitely even more hurtful, it is
:20:55. > :21:02.sickening, it is disgusting. So for him to say you can just wash it off
:21:02. > :21:11.with the shake of a hand, for me it is unbelievable. I can't believe
:21:11. > :21:16.no-one has really picked this up, Government wise, sponsors-wise, how
:21:16. > :21:21.can you have the head of the body of football of the world, saying
:21:21. > :21:25.those comments. If he has said those comments, people are saying
:21:26. > :21:28.it is OK, he has said sorry, for me that is unbelievable. Are we in
:21:28. > :21:31.Britain, and the English game in particular, are we a bit different
:21:31. > :21:35.from the rest of the world. You know the reputation of Russia and
:21:35. > :21:41.Eastern Europe, sometimes in these matters it is not entirely pure, is
:21:41. > :21:46.it? Some of those countries have big problems it's the head, he
:21:46. > :21:51.should know better. He has compromised FIFA, big time. For me,
:21:51. > :21:54.the longer he actually stays at FIFA, I honestly think FIFA will
:21:54. > :21:58.become weaker. Does it have an effect, you suggested before, does
:21:58. > :22:02.it really have an effect on the grass roots of the game, 10, 11-
:22:02. > :22:08.year-olds? Yeah, I think kids are listening, Sunday league football,
:22:08. > :22:12.people like that. If you realise what he says,'s the head, all that
:22:12. > :22:17.seeps down, and you know, all these other games aren't policed properly
:22:17. > :22:22.you can get away with a lot of things in and around those kind of
:22:22. > :22:25.levels. If you hear the top guy saying, you can do whatever you
:22:25. > :22:30.want, be racist to player, it is a part of the game, as long as you
:22:30. > :22:34.say sorry afterwards, it is OK. Where are we going in football? For
:22:34. > :22:38.me he has flung football 40 years back. All the hard work, all the
:22:38. > :22:41.campaigners, Kick It Out, Show the Red Card, all their work for
:22:42. > :22:45.nothing. We don't know exactly what happened in the John Terry incident
:22:45. > :22:50.or the Suarez incident, we know they are being investigated. Do you
:22:50. > :22:58.think things have changed a lot in the game in this country at los?
:22:58. > :23:02.Most certainly. Are things a lot better? Yeah. Since the early 190s?
:23:02. > :23:07.I watched football before that, and heard all the comments and the past
:23:07. > :23:11.players talking about their experiences through the 1960s and
:23:11. > :23:17.1970s. Yeah it has definitely moved on. It is only because there is
:23:17. > :23:21.some people doing fantastic things up and down the country and
:23:21. > :23:27.campaigning to kick this out. It is only because of the hard work and
:23:27. > :23:33.the PFA, and the Football Association, and players, and the
:23:33. > :23:37.wider public, the English public have come together to nulify T it
:23:37. > :23:41.is not completely depon, but it is -- it has not completely gone, but
:23:41. > :23:44.it is better than the 70s for sure. We know the view of most people in
:23:44. > :23:49.England about what has happened over the World Cup and allegations
:23:49. > :23:57.of corruption and so on. Nobody seems to care what the British
:23:57. > :24:02.think? Do they in this? The trouble is, England across the water
:24:02. > :24:09.haven't the best reputation when it comes to talking to the other
:24:09. > :24:14.nations when it comes to football. I don't know why, I think they have
:24:14. > :24:18.to get the right man, FA side, to start talking to them and bring
:24:18. > :24:23.them closer. Thank you very much. We have long known that British
:24:23. > :24:27.nationals are fighting for the Taliban, and Al-Qaeda, in
:24:27. > :24:35.Afghanistan and Pakistan. There were persistent rumours of fighters
:24:35. > :24:40.with Birmingham accents and a copes was found with an Aston Villa tatoo.
:24:40. > :24:44.Today was revealed two British men were killed in drone strikes. One
:24:44. > :24:53.left Britain subject to a control order in 2007. What more do you
:24:53. > :24:57.know about this? Interesting, the first man, Ibrahim Adam, 24 years
:24:57. > :25:00.old from East London. He was on a control order, as you say, along
:25:01. > :25:07.with his brother, they both absconded on control orders. That
:25:07. > :25:12.is two brothers in that family. A third brother, their older brother,
:25:12. > :25:17.was called Anthony Garcia, he changed his name, this third
:25:18. > :25:22.brother was convicted of terrorism offences in 2007, connected to the
:25:22. > :25:25.operation about the crevice fertiliser bomb plot. We have three
:25:25. > :25:34.brothers closely linked to terrorist activities there. The
:25:34. > :25:40.second man named and killed in a drone attack, is Mohammed Azmer
:25:40. > :25:49.Khan, originally from Sheffield and then in London. He's said to be a
:25:49. > :25:53.brother of a man, Azmeil Abjar, killed last year in a drone attack
:25:53. > :25:58.in Pakistan. Do we have any more idea about how many similar case
:25:58. > :26:01.there is might be? There is a steady flow of young radicalised
:26:01. > :26:06.Muslim recruits from Great Britain into the north frontier province,
:26:06. > :26:12.the tribal areas, over a number of years. We have just late last year
:26:12. > :26:17.spoken to a family from Manchester, whose son, Umar Arshad, left the
:26:17. > :26:21.country, again, on the control order, they were deeply worried
:26:21. > :26:25.about him. We can hear from them now. He didn't seem well or himself.
:26:25. > :26:31.This happened very suddenly. It wasn't a space of you know a year
:26:31. > :26:34.or two years, it occurred within a month. His mind was being changed,
:26:34. > :26:38.because of the way he was being ruled by these individuals, or the
:26:38. > :26:46.gang. If they told him to sit down, he would sit down. If they stold
:26:46. > :26:49.told him to stand up, he would stand up. We could see how worried
:26:49. > :26:53.the brother and the father were there. I have spoken to the family
:26:53. > :26:57.today, there is no news where their relative is in Pakistan it's widely
:26:57. > :27:01.believed to have disappeared into Pakistan to be recruited by Jihadi
:27:01. > :27:07.groups, possibly linked to Al-Qaeda. I think this demonstrates that some
:27:07. > :27:11.families in Britain phrasing this awful prospect of lose -- facing
:27:11. > :27:14.this awful prospect of losing their young ones to Islamic Jihadists.
:27:14. > :27:19.young ones to Islamic Jihadists. The front pages now.
:27:19. > :27:26.The Times has 50% off council houses and also the story of the
:27:26. > :27:30.Natalie Wood case, waking the dead, LA police reopen the case. The FT
:27:30. > :27:34.has financial stories, the Northern Rock funds deal. The ECB hitting
:27:34. > :27:39.back over intervention calls and a picture of Angela Merkel and David
:27:39. > :27:49.Cameron translating each other's thoughts, I suspect. The Mirror has
:27:49. > :27:51.
:27:51. > :28:01.ITV Daybreak dream team sacked, Adrian Chidldes and his pardon --
:28:01. > :28:09.
:28:09. > :28:13.That's all from Newsnight tonight, Mark Kermode will present the
:28:14. > :28:19.review show in a minute. We will leave you with the news that one
:28:20. > :28:27.half of the Cosgrove Hall duo has died. The list of his cartoons goes
:28:27. > :28:30.on for a very long time. Here is a # He's the greatest
:28:30. > :28:37.# He's fantastic # Wherever there is danger