:00:08. > :00:13.Germany joins France in recommending the removal those
:00:14. > :00:17.breast implants, why is the NHS still refusing to do the same?
:00:17. > :00:21.The least five countries have decided to recommend removal,
:00:21. > :00:25.Britain finds itself in a minority in refusing to follow suit. Our
:00:25. > :00:28.science editor is here. The Department of Health is fudging
:00:28. > :00:32.its position, it won't recommend removal, but now wants to see them
:00:32. > :00:35.taken out if the patient really wants it.
:00:35. > :00:39.The NHS Medical Director will be here to explain himself.
:00:40. > :00:43.Has Labour u-turned on the cuts they have, up until now, condemned.
:00:43. > :00:48.While these two keep quiet, it it is left to the Shadow Defence
:00:48. > :00:53.Secretary, to declare that spending plans must be credible, no populist.
:00:53. > :00:58.Ed Balls's point man, Chris Leslie, is here to clarify.
:00:58. > :01:06.Also tonight. Music is about to stop, and we are going to be left
:01:06. > :01:10.holding the biggest bag of odour ous excrement ever assembled in the
:01:10. > :01:14.history of capitalism. Inside a Wall Street bank the night
:01:14. > :01:17.before the great crash of 2008, we speak to the director of Margin
:01:17. > :01:23.Call. I didn't want to make charicatures
:01:23. > :01:33.of these people. I wanted to actually try to represent the
:01:33. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :01:46.decision-making process. The Government tried to quell the
:01:46. > :01:50.outcry against the breast implant scandal. The German authorities did
:01:50. > :01:53.the opposite to Britain, Germany now says in the light of new
:01:53. > :01:56.evidence, it is joining, France, Israel, Venezuela and the Czech
:01:56. > :02:01.Republic, in recommending that women with these kind of implants
:02:01. > :02:06.should have them removed. Today's report by the NHS Medical Director,
:02:06. > :02:09.Sir Bruce Keogh, admits the data in the UK is wanting, seriously
:02:09. > :02:16.underreported he describes as information about the French
:02:16. > :02:18.implants. What of the 40,000 or so women with PIP implants to do. In a
:02:18. > :02:21.moment we will hear from Sir Bruce, but first this.
:02:21. > :02:25.We are at the end of the week when politicians across the globe had
:02:25. > :02:31.had hoped to have reassured the hundreds of thousands of women who
:02:31. > :02:36.have had breast implants from French company, PIP. But
:02:36. > :02:42.Governments differ markedly in their response and decidinging who
:02:42. > :02:46.will pay. -- deciding who will pay?
:02:47. > :02:51.Germans will remove the PIP implants, alongside Germany, Israel,
:02:51. > :02:56.Venezuela, in deciding to do that. I'm not sure how the health service
:02:56. > :03:01.works in ermgr, I understand there may be an assurance scheme that
:03:01. > :03:06.agree to do that, as in Israel. German authorities say they are
:03:06. > :03:10.changing their risk assessment due to the rising number of notices
:03:10. > :03:15.from doctors, trade organisations and hospitals in recent days. They
:03:15. > :03:20.go on to say that these notices, silicone from such implants,
:03:20. > :03:25.increasingly and over time can leak. The fact that so many Governments
:03:25. > :03:28.have have such different public positions raises the question about
:03:28. > :03:32.if they are sharing safety data as they might.
:03:32. > :03:37.It seems the quality of safety data from British clinics poor. Members
:03:37. > :03:40.of a panel intervened to advise the Government, and concedes the
:03:40. > :03:45.picture on rupture rates is uncertain, and the nature of the
:03:45. > :03:50.gel in the implants is unclear, as is the picture of how toxic the gel
:03:50. > :03:53.is. The group says it has no evidence to suggest it is dangerous.
:03:53. > :03:56.The expert group has made clear there is no link to Cannes, there
:03:56. > :03:59.are no specific safety concerns that require these implants to be
:03:59. > :04:03.removed. If women are understandably worried, we in the
:04:03. > :04:07.NHS are going to make it very clear they can get access to advice,
:04:07. > :04:11.scans, and to the removal of the implant, if necessary. We expect
:04:11. > :04:16.the private sector to offer the same service to the women whose
:04:16. > :04:19.implants they provide. Many plastic surgeries, both here in the UK, and
:04:19. > :04:23.internationally, are sticking to their position, that these implants
:04:23. > :04:26.should be reof moved. The Government seems to be relying --
:04:26. > :04:32.removed, the Government seems to be relying on the private clinics to
:04:32. > :04:36.follow aed model it set out for NHS -- follow a model it set out for
:04:36. > :04:41.the NHS clinics. There are a number coming out that they are going to
:04:41. > :04:47.pay for, obviously the patients to be seen and any scans they might
:04:47. > :04:51.need. If there is a clinical reason for the implant to come out then
:04:51. > :04:55.they will pay for it. There are others who have done much larger
:04:55. > :04:59.amounts, and there is a concern there about the financial
:04:59. > :05:03.arrangements. There is a plan ined today's report
:05:03. > :05:06.for continued monitoring, -- plan in today's report for continued
:05:06. > :05:09.monitoring and surveillance. A lot hangs on private clinics doing the
:05:09. > :05:14.right thing. So long as the independent sector play ball the
:05:14. > :05:17.way that the Government have told them to, then I think the women out
:05:17. > :05:20.there can be assured they will be looked after. It very clearly
:05:20. > :05:24.states that. The Government expects the private providers to look after
:05:24. > :05:28.their patients, as the Government are looking after their patients.
:05:28. > :05:33.The focus may now shift to the medicines and healthcare products
:05:33. > :05:38.regulatory agency, the MHRA, and how well it is overseeing this
:05:38. > :05:42.sector. Today the new head Europe's drug watchdog said there is an
:05:42. > :05:45.acute need to tighten regulations on medical devices. We need to take
:05:45. > :05:51.into consideration that this implant came in from a French of
:05:51. > :05:54.manufacturer, and was given a quality mark by the regulator in
:05:54. > :06:00.this country, and that needs to be taken into consideration. There
:06:00. > :06:05.needs to be some accountable for what happened. That the Protestant
:06:05. > :06:08.vieders did not purchase -- the providers did notp purchase these
:06:08. > :06:12.implants thinking they were substandard ones. What seems to be
:06:12. > :06:17.driving the Government is a determination to see the private
:06:17. > :06:20.clinics to cover the cost for having opted for these cheap French
:06:20. > :06:24.implants, but by gentle persuasion, whether they succeed remains to be
:06:24. > :06:28.seen. Earlier I asked the author of
:06:28. > :06:32.today's report, Sir Bruce Keogh, why the UK was at odds with other
:06:32. > :06:35.countries in had its advice on implant removal. What we have done
:06:36. > :06:39.is conduct a review that has looked at two things. First of all, the
:06:39. > :06:42.hard evidence around safety of these implants, and the second
:06:42. > :06:46.aspect was how to offer compassionate treatment to women
:06:46. > :06:52.who will be undoubtedly worried. In terms of the hard evidence that we
:06:52. > :06:56.have on safety, we know there isn't an increased Canneser risk we are
:06:56. > :06:59.uncertain about whether -- cancer risk. We are uncertain about
:06:59. > :07:03.whether there is an elevated risk, there is no evidence to suggest one
:07:03. > :07:07.way or another, we are looking at that. The hard scientific evidence
:07:07. > :07:11.as to whether or not this gel is more irritant suggests that it
:07:11. > :07:15.probably isn't. Having said that, we know it is more liquid, finally
:07:15. > :07:20.we have looked at what are the risks of redoing the surgery. So we
:07:20. > :07:24.have come to the view that when you add all of those up, we don't have
:07:24. > :07:28.hard evidence that it is unsafe, which is of course not the same as
:07:28. > :07:32.evidence of safety. You don't have evidence of safety, why not operate
:07:32. > :07:39.on the precautionary principle. The reason I say that, is because
:07:39. > :07:42.Germany, as it were, hard bd up its advice over evidence taken -
:07:42. > :07:45.hardened up its advice over evidence taken from hospitals. They
:07:45. > :07:49.have changed their advice and saying as a precautionary principle
:07:49. > :07:56.women should have them refd moved. Surely you should be trying to do
:07:56. > :07:59.the best for women. Naturally I will invited Germans to share their
:07:59. > :08:04.information with me. Should that not have happened up until now, the
:08:04. > :08:09.Germans, the Israelis, the Venezuelans and the Czech Republic?
:08:09. > :08:13.Yes, mew early indications is their evidence is -- my early indications
:08:13. > :08:17.their evidence is no harder than our's. Talk about two things there,
:08:17. > :08:21.first of all, what the Germans are saying is the evidence of
:08:21. > :08:25.degradation of these implants over time is significant. So, therefore,
:08:25. > :08:29.for a start, would it not be better to recommend women who have had
:08:29. > :08:33.them implanted for more than three years, they should be having them
:08:33. > :08:36.removed? We have considered that. Bear in mind that all breast
:08:36. > :08:40.implants degrade, and at continue years, about one in ten them will
:08:40. > :08:44.have failed any way. What we are doing, I think we are offering
:08:44. > :08:48.something that is a much better solution. It it is easy to offer
:08:48. > :08:52.the solution that everybody should just have them out. What we're
:08:52. > :08:56.doing...Is It, do it then? In the NHS we are doing something better.
:08:56. > :09:00.What we are doing is we are going to inform all patients who have had
:09:00. > :09:03.a PIP implant. We are going to write to them and offer them an
:09:03. > :09:07.opportunity of an informed consultation, with either their GP
:09:07. > :09:11.or a specialist breast surgeon. And on the basis that, we are offering
:09:11. > :09:14.them some personalised decision making which will take into account
:09:14. > :09:17.emerging evidence, and take into account their personal
:09:17. > :09:22.circumstances and wishes, and if they want the implants out,
:09:22. > :09:26.following that, we will take them out and we will replace them.
:09:26. > :09:33.be clear, we are talking with with implants put in on the NHS, we are
:09:33. > :09:39.not talking about private, of which that is the vast majority? Let me
:09:39. > :09:44.be clear, it is the expectation of this expert group that the NHS, we
:09:44. > :09:47.think, hax set a gold standard of - - has set a gold standard of duty
:09:47. > :09:52.of care. We expect the private sector to step up to the plate and
:09:52. > :09:58.offer the same level. The gold standard should exist across
:09:58. > :10:03.private and NHS? Clearly it should. You by your own admission. Can I
:10:03. > :10:07.read a disturbing part of the report which says, "we believe
:10:07. > :10:12.underreporting seriously affects the validity of PIP data and some
:10:12. > :10:19.comparative data about similar implants", on that very basis, and
:10:19. > :10:23.some ruptures, as many as two or three do not show in clinical
:10:23. > :10:27.symptom, and can only be shown by removal. You have made a decision
:10:27. > :10:32.baseded on information which you yourself say is -- based on
:10:33. > :10:38.information which you yourself say is underreported seriously. That is
:10:38. > :10:42.no reassurance for women, you don't have the data? The extent of
:10:42. > :10:44.underreporting is haveous. We have asked for data from those
:10:44. > :10:50.organisations that implant the breast implants. They are showing
:10:50. > :10:54.the PIP implant, that the risk of rupture on this data is five-hold
:10:54. > :10:59.less than other data. We are -- five-fold less than other data. We
:10:59. > :11:03.are discarding that data. We are looking at compassionate treatment
:11:03. > :11:05.for worried women. We are expecting the private sector to step up to
:11:05. > :11:10.the plate and offer these consultations and personalised
:11:10. > :11:14.decision making with women in the same way that the NHS is. They will
:11:14. > :11:20.have to pay to have them removed? We don't expect the private sector
:11:20. > :11:22.to charge people to have them reof moved. And, where women feel they
:11:22. > :11:25.have been failed by the private sector, because either the
:11:25. > :11:29.organisation has gone out of business, or the surgeries have
:11:29. > :11:35.retired, or, for some reason or another, the organisation which put
:11:35. > :11:37.in their implant take as rekals trant approach to this, then the
:11:37. > :11:43.NHS will step into the breach to help.
:11:43. > :11:48.Here is a confession, I am the shad he dough Defence Secretary and I
:11:48. > :11:54.accept -- Shadow Defence Secretary, and I accept �5 billion of defence
:11:54. > :11:58.cuts. He rejects shadow and temporary populisim, can we expect
:11:58. > :12:03.a long line of Labour front benchers to come out and support
:12:03. > :12:06.George Osborne's Plan A, in an attempt to try to I a chief what
:12:06. > :12:11.the Shadow Defence Secretary called genuine credibility. And there is
:12:11. > :12:15.no suggestion that Ed Milliband is in denial about the plans.
:12:15. > :12:21.In the first days of 2012, Labour has seemed a little bit like a ship
:12:21. > :12:25.without a destination. Its compass wonky, its crew, uppity.
:12:26. > :12:30.There seems to be no strategy, no narrative and little energy. Old
:12:30. > :12:34.faces from the Brown era seem stuck in defending Labour's record in all
:12:34. > :12:43.the wrong ways. We didn't spend too much money, we will cut less fast
:12:43. > :12:47.and less far, but we can't tell you how. Thus spaik Lord Glasman, Ed
:12:47. > :12:54.Milliband's hand-picked shipmate. Cue an outbreak of dismay in the
:12:54. > :12:57.Labour ranks. There is a sense drift, there is no clear direction
:12:57. > :13:01.set upon the party and we are 18 months into Ed Milliband's
:13:01. > :13:05.leadership. A lot of people like him, and think he's the right man
:13:05. > :13:12.with the right value, but they worry where he's going and taking
:13:12. > :13:16.the party, it is not clear.Ed one had shadow minister did try to
:13:16. > :13:20.make -- today one shadow minister did try to make things clear. He
:13:20. > :13:23.accepted the defence cuts in an attempt to gain, as he put it,
:13:23. > :13:28.genuine credibility. They started to map out the he detail of how
:13:28. > :13:32.Labour would go about restoring the UK and fiscal deficit to some sort
:13:32. > :13:35.of balance. And this is hard for Labour, because there are a lot
:13:35. > :13:39.things in there that challenge the Labour Party's core instincts. What
:13:39. > :13:43.they have done is start to get into the specifics, this is a different
:13:43. > :13:47.environment to one in which the opposition may have face in 2008.
:13:47. > :13:50.People want to hear are you credible in what you are going to
:13:50. > :13:54.do. Originally Ed Milliband wanted economic policy to be about the new,
:13:54. > :13:58.a new more caring kind of capitalism, and new things Labour
:13:58. > :14:08.could deliver to its voting base. What he did not want it to be about
:14:08. > :14:09.
:14:09. > :14:14.was fistle Calpol sis. He didn't originally - fiscal policy, but it
:14:14. > :14:19.has become about fiscal policy. Ed Balls has two problems, he was
:14:19. > :14:23.closely associate with the fiscal policy that went wrong, and he's
:14:23. > :14:27.the strong advocate of a centre stand today. Centre ground.
:14:27. > :14:31.chart sums up the shifting terrain for Labour. This was Alistair
:14:31. > :14:36.Darling's deficit reduction plan, to more than half the deficit over
:14:37. > :14:42.four years. Not fast enough, said the coalition in June 2010, they
:14:42. > :14:46.would cut �40 billion more and get the deficit down to just 2% of GDP.
:14:46. > :14:49.Six weeks ago that plan was scrapped. The coalition's new
:14:49. > :14:54.borrowing targets are now higher than those Alistair Darling lost
:14:54. > :14:59.the election on. In every remaining year of the parliament. It should
:14:59. > :15:02.have been a propoganda coup for Labour, but it wasn't. I think the
:15:02. > :15:10.Labour message isn't getting through for two reasons, one, they
:15:11. > :15:13.are up against a press which is 80% right-wing, backing the Tory talk
:15:13. > :15:17.about cuts, which doesn't want it to hear about growth and invest
:15:17. > :15:20.anything the economy. Secondly, the Labour Party is not united, the
:15:20. > :15:24.leader hasn't come down strongly enough on the side of growth,
:15:24. > :15:29.investment and job creation over deficit reduction, cuts, cuts, cuts.
:15:29. > :15:32.That is the problem, it leaves Balls relatively isolate. That is
:15:33. > :15:38.byer Tsar, because Ed Balls has been vindicate by the facts and the
:15:38. > :15:45.data. Labour's five-point plan for recovery includes only one fiscal
:15:45. > :15:49.policy move, proposing a cut of VAT of �12 billion a year. That leaves
:15:49. > :15:52.Shadow Cabinet ministers having to write a fiscal policy in detail,
:15:52. > :15:56.department by department. If November left the coalition's
:15:56. > :16:00.deficit plan in ruins, it left Labour without one full stop,
:16:00. > :16:03.because Darling's old plan is history now. That leaves Ed Balls
:16:03. > :16:07.reliant on the single argument that austerity is hurting, but not
:16:08. > :16:12.working. And Labour's all too well aware that many people do not yet
:16:12. > :16:15.accept that argument. People are anxious, you see, when
:16:15. > :16:19.people are anxious they get scared. They cling to what seems most solid
:16:19. > :16:23.and stable. Whether it is right or not. It is debatable. Therefore,
:16:23. > :16:27.they have stuck with the coalition on economic policy, because they
:16:27. > :16:31.see that as the safest option, whether it is or not. Tonight the
:16:32. > :16:36.Labour leader, in an interview with the Guardian, warned his supporters
:16:36. > :16:41.that the era of tax and transfer social democracy was over. New
:16:41. > :16:45.schools, he said, new hospitals, tax credit, that is not going to be
:16:45. > :16:51.available to the next Labour Government. Labour's economic
:16:51. > :16:56.skpwrouorny, may, in truth, -- journey, may, in truth, have hardly
:16:56. > :17:02.started. I'm joined by Chris Leslie. The latest poll of polls, Labour is
:17:02. > :17:05.trailing the Tories, despite the economic crisis. A former adviser
:17:05. > :17:09.say you lack environment. The Shadow Defence Secretary is saying
:17:09. > :17:13.you can't sustain popularity without genuine credibility. Do you
:17:13. > :17:16.accept you have a credibility problem? Credibility ultimately
:17:16. > :17:20.depends on whether it will work or not. The credibility of the
:17:20. > :17:25.Government's economic plan will depend on whether it works or not.
:17:25. > :17:28.Let me just fin urb. I think he's talking about your credibility?
:17:28. > :17:31.important thing for bus credibility is whether we can demonstrate that
:17:32. > :17:35.-- for us about credibility is whether we can demonstrate a
:17:35. > :17:38.healthy economy. A healthy economy leads to healthy public finances.
:17:38. > :17:42.We have always acknowledged some cuts would beness radio. These are
:17:42. > :17:45.going to be very difficult choices -- would be necessary, these are
:17:45. > :17:50.going to be very difficult choices. We want a fair and balanced
:17:50. > :17:54.approach to the cuts that would be necessary. They are taking a very
:17:54. > :17:57.dogmatic approach, too far and too fast. You haven't actually got a
:17:57. > :18:01.credible plan, at the moment you have a situation where Ed Balls
:18:01. > :18:06.believes you have to spend your way out of of the recession, and yet
:18:06. > :18:10.you have certificate and series of ministers being told they have -- a
:18:10. > :18:14.series of ministers being told they have to line up and make a series
:18:14. > :18:19.of cuts. You don't really actually v you don't have a deficit
:18:19. > :18:23.reduction plan at all now? We do. What is it, is it still Alistair
:18:23. > :18:27.Darling's? If I can get a word in edgeway, depends on the strength of
:18:27. > :18:32.the economy. If you end up cutting so far in such a way that you strip
:18:32. > :18:35.away the economic growth that we have, that you end up piling more
:18:35. > :18:40.expenditure on welfare, unemployment benefit. What you will
:18:40. > :18:43.do is worsen the economy and the deficit. See borrowing going up. In
:18:43. > :18:47.terms of cred bltd, that, I think, will be the central -- credibility,
:18:47. > :18:51.that, I think will be the central debate over the coming years. We
:18:51. > :18:55.have a credible plan. Even before the election you talked p the
:18:55. > :18:59.Alistair Darling plan, we accept some cuts are necessary this
:18:59. > :19:04.Government can't even match the pace of the Alistair Darling plan.
:19:04. > :19:08.As your research showed. couldn't make any propoganda out of
:19:08. > :19:12.it either. You say, you have a deficit reduction plan, you have
:19:12. > :19:16.one, but of course it will depend what happens with the economy. What
:19:16. > :19:20.is the deficit reduction plan today, you don't have one, do you?
:19:20. > :19:24.Murphy has outlined the cuts we think would be acceptable. He
:19:24. > :19:29.talked about �5 billion in certain defence elements in the next five
:19:29. > :19:33.years. Policing is a good example. The Government want to cut 20%, the
:19:33. > :19:37.independent inspectorate say that would be very harmful. We have said
:19:37. > :19:39.12% of police cuts is a level of reduction that is would be
:19:39. > :19:44.sustainable, without hurting the frontline. There are differences
:19:44. > :19:47.between us and the Government. much, just give us a figure then, a
:19:47. > :19:51.straight forward figure, how much are you going to cut the deficit
:19:51. > :19:55.by? We have said, and I think it is important to acknowledge we want to
:19:55. > :19:58.cut the df sit, but not the pace the Government wanted -- deficit,
:19:58. > :20:01.but not the pace the Government want. Roughly half over the four-
:20:01. > :20:05.year period, that is the Alistair Darling plan. The problem is the
:20:05. > :20:08.economy and the Government finances are not static but dynamic. When we
:20:08. > :20:12.get to the next election we will have an opportunity to write a
:20:12. > :20:16.manifesto and set out more details. By then the credibility might be
:20:16. > :20:20.less than the poll of polls said today. As straight forward question,
:20:20. > :20:23.is the deficit plan to reduce the deficit by a half by the end of the
:20:23. > :20:28.parliament, what is it? That is the plan put before the public. There
:20:28. > :20:31.are and today? Bear in mind that the public, we were rejected from
:20:31. > :20:35.office, we lost the last general election, the public wanted to give
:20:35. > :20:38.the benefit of the doubt to the Government. The key thing about
:20:38. > :20:41.credibility, if they are not succeeding in delivering on the
:20:41. > :20:45.expectations and the promises they made, the Government's credibility
:20:45. > :20:50.will be shot to pieces. That is the alternative we have. That is the
:20:50. > :20:55.challenge we have. If we can prove that actually building the economy
:20:55. > :20:58.rather than stripping it out and cutting it into shreds will be
:20:58. > :21:04.harmful, we have an opportunity to do that. Tomorrow morning's
:21:04. > :21:08.Guardian, Ed Milliband talks p about the Tony Crossland era being
:21:08. > :21:12.over, the proceeds of tax and growth going on schools and
:21:12. > :21:19.hospitals and tax credits is gone. It will not be there. It will never
:21:19. > :21:25.happen again. What is the point haeb? We are always going to --
:21:25. > :21:29.Labour? We will always believe in improving public services. There is
:21:29. > :21:32.no option to do this any more? difference is this, we believe in
:21:32. > :21:36.investing in public service, but in a fair and balance way. We will
:21:36. > :21:40.have to make some tough choice, but this is a Government not thinking
:21:40. > :21:43.through properly, the implication for the economy for public services
:21:43. > :21:46.of the cuts agenda they are pursuing. Not just too far and too
:21:46. > :21:51.fast, but failing to tackle the very deficit that theyp promised
:21:51. > :21:56.they would sort out. In a cop of words, how would you characterise
:21:56. > :22:01.the first week -- in a couple of words, how would you characterise
:22:01. > :22:04.the first week for Ed Milliband? The media will characterise it in a
:22:04. > :22:09.different way, he has shown strong leadership on Rupert Murdoch.
:22:09. > :22:13.was last year? On rewriting the rules of capitalism, he has a
:22:13. > :22:18.strong agenda, and this is a crucial year for us. The prevailing
:22:18. > :22:22.orthodoxy in real life and in the movies is that bankers are bad,
:22:22. > :22:28.sometimes mad, and definitely dangerous. But a new film paipbts a
:22:28. > :22:34.more complex picture of Wall Street in 2008, when the caefpl hit like a
:22:34. > :22:38.freight train. Now some of the best actors in town, Stanley Tucci,
:22:38. > :22:42.Jeremy Irons and Demi Moore, have waved their usual fees to appear in
:22:43. > :22:48.Margin Call. A low of-budget film about an investment bank in the
:22:48. > :22:51.middle of huge lay of-offs and discovers huge discrepencies on the
:22:51. > :22:55.books. JS Chandor, the son of an investment banker wrote and
:22:55. > :22:59.directeded the film, I spoke him earlier todayment I should warn you
:22:59. > :23:03.there is some strong language that follows. Hello. I need you guys to
:23:03. > :23:09.come back up here. Just trust me, I need you guys back here, now.
:23:09. > :23:17.a minute, what am I looking at. This figure here? Is that figure
:23:17. > :23:25.right. So, what you are telling me is, that the music is about to stop,
:23:25. > :23:29.and we are going to be left holding the biggest bag of oderous
:23:29. > :23:32.excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism. You don't
:23:32. > :23:37.moralise about the people who are there, do you, you kind of let them
:23:37. > :23:43.tell their own story? In the US the films come out a month or two ago,
:23:43. > :23:48.in the US on the left people have been a little upset that I wasn't
:23:48. > :23:52.quite citle kal enough, that -- critical enough, that I wasn't
:23:52. > :23:59.demonising these people. I think their actions speak for themselves,
:23:59. > :24:02.I didn't want charicatures of these people, I wanted to actually try to
:24:02. > :24:07.look at the decision making process. One of the most affecting scenes is
:24:07. > :24:12.the opening scene,s almost like a zombie movey, people are getting up
:24:12. > :24:17.are from desks, putting their boxes down, going to the lift, evacuating
:24:17. > :24:21.the buildings. A friend of mine who works in the city, called me from a
:24:21. > :24:26.Citibank trading floor. He said get down here, you should see what is
:24:26. > :24:33.about top happen. A team had HR, human resources people, came in and
:24:33. > :24:38.set up camp in every room, and your phone would ring. I am obviously
:24:38. > :24:43.sorry that we are here today, but these are extraordinary times, as
:24:43. > :24:47.you very well must know. Look I run risk management, I don'tle really
:24:47. > :24:57.see how that is a natural place to start cutting jobs. We understand
:24:57. > :25:00.this is in no way personal, the majority of this floor is going
:25:00. > :25:04.today. The hiring and firing situation may shed more light on
:25:04. > :25:12.how we got to where we were than the technicalties of what the
:25:12. > :25:18.trading was going on. Studying the way friction ratios underlines use
:25:18. > :25:23.under reduces gravity loads. So you are a rocket scientist. I was.
:25:23. > :25:27.Interesting. How did you end up here? It is all just numbers,
:25:28. > :25:33.changing what you are adding up, and to speak freely, the m money
:25:33. > :25:38.here is more attractive. There certainly is a disconnect between
:25:38. > :25:44.this new generation of brilliant qants, the mostcateded people on
:25:44. > :25:50.the plan the. And you know, a fundamental guy who came up through,
:25:50. > :25:56.most educated people on the planet, and who a fundamental Kay who came
:25:56. > :26:00.up there you the ranks. Of the two banks one or two went under, and
:26:00. > :26:05.the issue was the CEO not comprehending what is going on.
:26:05. > :26:11.Speak as you like to a young child or golden retrieve, it wasn't
:26:11. > :26:16.brains that got me here, I can assure you of that. In visiting the
:26:16. > :26:22.floors, you ran into MIT rocket scientists. And I think one of the
:26:22. > :26:27.things, the film, although it is structured as a thriller, and
:26:27. > :26:32.hopefully keeps the audiences on the edge their seat. At its core it
:26:32. > :26:40.is also a tragedy. Because it is really lost potential, making money
:26:40. > :26:45.from money, instead of making money from making things. Is that the
:26:45. > :26:48.best use for our best and brightest. I know my answer for that.
:26:48. > :26:52.Ironically you are a product of the boom years in investment banking,
:26:52. > :26:55.your father worked for Merrill Lynch for more than 30 years. That
:26:55. > :26:59.was a big influence on you? father was not a trader like the
:26:59. > :27:05.characters in the film. Mid-level banker for many years. We also
:27:05. > :27:10.lived in communities of bankers. So how that influenceded me was that I
:27:10. > :27:16.learned what these people cared about. Presumably you don't think
:27:16. > :27:20.youred dad was a bad guy? Sometimes! I'm kidding. He is
:27:20. > :27:26.certainly not out to save the world, so he made selfish choices to take
:27:26. > :27:30.care of had his family n way. Anyone that goes into that -- In a
:27:30. > :27:34.way. Anyone going into that industry make as choice when they
:27:34. > :27:39.enter it. They are making choices a teacher is not. My father is not an
:27:39. > :27:43.evil or a charicature, he is a person who went to work every day,
:27:43. > :27:48.and you know, at times was investing money for a teachers'
:27:48. > :27:57.union, so he felt that banking could serve a purpose.
:27:57. > :28:01.I just don't know how we locked this up quite so much. When did you
:28:01. > :28:04.start feeling so sorry for yourself, it is unbearable. What, so you
:28:04. > :28:09.think we might have put a few people out of business today, it is
:28:09. > :28:14.all for nougt, but you have been doing that every day for almost 40
:28:14. > :28:23.years, Sam. If this is all for nougt, then so is everything out
:28:23. > :28:28.there. It is just money, it is made up. Pieces of paper with pictures
:28:28. > :28:32.on it so we don't have to kill each other just to get something to eat.
:28:32. > :28:35.It is not wrong. It is certainly no different today than it has ever
:28:35. > :28:39.been. It seems to me that you are saying this will happen again, we
:28:39. > :28:46.will go there again, is the film a warning? I guess the answer would
:28:46. > :28:52.be, being left to their own devices, of course this will happen again.
:28:52. > :28:57.So the point is to expect Jeremy Irons character to make massive
:28:57. > :29:05.changes of his own way doing business is a fool's errand. We
:29:05. > :29:10.need toen gauge, and the banking sis -- to engage, and the banking
:29:10. > :29:16.system is there for us, not the system is there for us, not the
:29:16. > :29:26.other way around. The papers now. Alert over dangers of cosmetic
:29:26. > :29:35.
:29:35. > :29:45.That's all from Newsnight tonight. Bob Holness died today at the age
:29:45. > :29:51.of 83. He will be remembered as the presenter of BlockBusters, the
:29:51. > :29:55.children's programme. A P please, bob. Yes, if that's how you feel.
:29:55. > :29:58.A new contestant to play the game. Join us, we look forward to your
:29:58. > :30:08.company. Goodbye.
:30:08. > :30:09.
:30:09. > :30:13.Here is the host of BlockBusters, Bob Holness.
:30:13. > :30:17.Hello there. If p you have been affect by the recent storms. You
:30:17. > :30:20.will be pleased to know this week's weather will be run of the mill.
:30:20. > :30:24.Bright and breezy sums it up for much of the UK on Saturday. A few
:30:24. > :30:28.showers, but they will be fleeting, and they won't amount to much. Some
:30:28. > :30:33.getting into parts of north-east England in the Pennines. Many
:30:33. > :30:37.places will stay dry and avoid the showersen tierl. A lot sunshine
:30:37. > :30:42.across -- showers entire, a lot of sunshine across East Anglia, a bit
:30:42. > :30:49.of a broz, a layer or two if you are -- a breeze, a layer or two if
:30:49. > :30:52.you are out and about. Across Devon and Cornwall the odd scud of rain.
:30:52. > :30:55.Showers possible. Dry, bright and breezy afternoon in the offing.
:30:55. > :30:59.That is the case for Northern Ireland. A bit more cloud in the
:30:59. > :31:03.west, and for Scotland as well. That cloud will be thicker and
:31:03. > :31:06.producing sharp showers across the northern half Scotland. Dryer and
:31:06. > :31:11.brighter further south and east. That is the picture as we end the
:31:11. > :31:14.day. It stays dry into nightimement increasingly cloudy from the west.
:31:14. > :31:19.An unsettled scene across northern and western parts of Europe.
:31:19. > :31:25.Western fronts will bring further outbreaks of rain. A God dop lol,
:31:25. > :31:29.recently. Further south into the Mediterranean, showers across the