0:00:01 > 0:00:04Tonight we're in bigger economic trouble than was thought, there's a
0:00:04 > 0:00:11good chance we are heading back into recession. The headlines are
0:00:11 > 0:00:13grim, a contraction of the economy by 0.2%, and a much bigger fall in
0:00:13 > 0:00:16manufacturing. We were told cut the state and the
0:00:17 > 0:00:20private sector will do the rest. Is the Government in denial?
0:00:20 > 0:00:25I will be asking the Chief Secretary to the Treasury if it
0:00:25 > 0:00:29isn't time the Government abandoned Tory dogma about cutting things.
0:00:29 > 0:00:34Six months to the opening of the Olympic Games, and an accusation
0:00:34 > 0:00:36they have taken tainted money. One of the games' moral guardians son
0:00:36 > 0:00:40the point of resignation, and is here to tell us why.
0:00:41 > 0:00:45They are the people who make the Chinese economy function, but the
0:00:45 > 0:00:50migrant workers are increasingly angry.
0:00:50 > 0:01:00The pressure is getting up day by day.
0:01:00 > 0:01:00
0:01:00 > 0:01:05So many riots and conflicts. Some day it is going to explode.
0:01:05 > 0:01:101234 And from the twin set to the leather skirt, has the Conservative
0:01:10 > 0:01:19Party really become the home of feminism. We speak to Louise Mensch
0:01:19 > 0:01:27and Laurie Penny. Disappointing but not unexpected
0:01:27 > 0:01:32was the Government line on the latest figures on Britain's sickly
0:01:32 > 0:01:36economic performance. Yet despite being predictable, this protracted
0:01:36 > 0:01:40bout of anaemia, has nothing to do with Government policy, apparently.
0:01:40 > 0:01:48It didn't wash with the opposition, who reached into the book of
0:01:48 > 0:01:53parliamentary insults, and fished out, "self satisfied", "smug" and
0:01:53 > 0:02:00complacent". Remember this, there were bright
0:02:00 > 0:02:10lights, Carols and decorations as early as October. Beneath the glitz
0:02:10 > 0:02:10
0:02:10 > 0:02:14Britain's economy was actually shrinking.
0:02:14 > 0:02:24The evidence is now plain, in the fourth quarter of 2011, the economy
0:02:24 > 0:02:33
0:02:33 > 0:02:40Now, George Osborne is the accused. He's accused of cutting too fast,
0:02:40 > 0:02:44too far. Of making the recession worse. Of being in denial.
0:02:44 > 0:02:4918 months ago George Osborne was a confident man, he told us, if he
0:02:49 > 0:02:53cut public spending, growth should soar, he said the British economy
0:02:53 > 0:02:57could export its way out of a crisis through manufacturing, and,
0:02:57 > 0:03:03as employment switched from the public to the private sector, the
0:03:03 > 0:03:06unemployment problem should go away. Today the confidence was less in
0:03:06 > 0:03:10evidence. Britain has substantial economic problems and debts, built
0:03:10 > 0:03:13up over the last ten years. We are dealing with those. But the truth
0:03:13 > 0:03:16is, dealing with those problems is made more difficult by the
0:03:16 > 0:03:20situation in the eurozone, and clearly what is happening at home
0:03:20 > 0:03:25is also affected by what is happening abroad.
0:03:25 > 0:03:30The IMF's in town tonight, calling quietly for some improvement. Mr
0:03:30 > 0:03:34Osborne's critics, not so quietly. The problem is that you have to be
0:03:35 > 0:03:38adaptable in the real world, economies move quickly, this is a
0:03:38 > 0:03:43once in a hundred year event. So the economy is really struggling to
0:03:43 > 0:03:48recover. It is now the longest lasting recession in 100 years, we
0:03:48 > 0:03:51need to be adaptable. Osborne in the past, apparently, has been
0:03:51 > 0:03:56quite adaptable, has been flexible, but now he as sticks there and
0:03:56 > 0:04:01seems to be like a deer in the headlights. Doesn't know what to do
0:04:01 > 0:04:06as the economy weakens, and simply is sticking with Plan A, come what
0:04:06 > 0:04:10May. The case against George Osborne rests on this, how much of
0:04:10 > 0:04:15the current stagnation is due to his policies on austerity and how
0:04:15 > 0:04:18much due to the crisis in Europe. He said his policies would deliver
0:04:19 > 0:04:26a steady and sustained economic recovery, with falling unemployment.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30We have a shrinking economy and the highest unemployment in 18 years.
0:04:30 > 0:04:35Mr Speaker, how bad do things have to get in our economy to shake him
0:04:35 > 0:04:41out of his complacecy. As usual, he writes the question
0:04:41 > 0:04:46before he listens to the answer. I didn't just say this is an issue of
0:04:46 > 0:04:49the eurozone. It is an issue of debt and deficit, it is an issue of
0:04:49 > 0:04:53squeezed household incomes, issues affecting many other economies.
0:04:53 > 0:04:57employment figures increasingly tell a story of plan gone wrong.
0:04:57 > 0:05:03They show a big pick-up in the number of jobs lost in the public
0:05:03 > 0:05:07sector in the last nine months, and with more to come. For a while, in
0:05:07 > 0:05:112010, private sector job creation did outstrip losses in health,
0:05:11 > 0:05:17education and the like, but the end of last year, it does look like
0:05:17 > 0:05:21this dried up. Those were the defence brief for Mr Osborne say
0:05:21 > 0:05:26the problem is strategic, and not primarily of his making. Very
0:05:26 > 0:05:29little of any of the slowdown this year can be attributed to the
0:05:29 > 0:05:32austerity programme. Most of it in the accounting sense can be
0:05:32 > 0:05:35attributed to inflation being higher than expected and export
0:05:35 > 0:05:40growth being weaker. The fundamental issue is that the
0:05:41 > 0:05:44British economy sun able to grow very fast. If the economy isn't
0:05:44 > 0:05:49actually contracting, then we get inflation going to 5% rapidly. That
0:05:49 > 0:05:54has happened twice now in the past four years. George Osborne's
0:05:54 > 0:06:00defence is simple, he had no choice, he had to cut, he had to raise
0:06:00 > 0:06:03taxes. But the growth he expected by now has completely failed to
0:06:04 > 0:06:08materialise. What his accusers are asking is this, what have you done
0:06:08 > 0:06:13to promote it? The Government has not had a growth plan to this point.
0:06:13 > 0:06:19It is very surprising, a Tory Chancellor has actually ruled out
0:06:19 > 0:06:27tax cuts to firms, supsidies for investment, supsidies for job
0:06:27 > 0:06:32hiring, -- subsidies for job hiring, we need to get firms hiring again.
0:06:32 > 0:06:37We have heard talk-up for countries that weren't. That has scared
0:06:38 > 0:06:41business investment away. Those who support George Osborne say the
0:06:41 > 0:06:47unfinished task lies in the public sector. If George Osborne wants the
0:06:47 > 0:06:52comittee to grow faster, -- economy to grow faster, he has to
0:06:52 > 0:06:55concentrate on the public sector, private sector methods, the pursuit
0:06:55 > 0:07:03of profits, greater competition. That is the area the Government has
0:07:03 > 0:07:07been slow toobgt on so far. fact re-- Too slow on so far.
0:07:07 > 0:07:15fact is the Government has been too to react. The bond market, silent
0:07:15 > 0:07:18until now, is the bond market, that has been a harsh sentencer recently.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22I spoke to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander
0:07:22 > 0:07:26earlier. How much of this disappointing
0:07:26 > 0:07:35performance is attributable to Government policy? Of course there
0:07:35 > 0:07:41are a number of factors involved in this, and the OBR set them out very
0:07:41 > 0:07:45clearly in their economic forecast in November. They included a number
0:07:45 > 0:07:54of figures in the growth forecast. They included the crisis in the
0:07:54 > 0:07:58eurozone and the deeper impact of the economic crisis of 2008/09 than
0:07:58 > 0:08:02previously estimated. Also the higher oil, commodity and food
0:08:02 > 0:08:05prices feeding into inflation. The question for us is do we have the
0:08:05 > 0:08:10right mix of policy to deal with the circumstances we face. I think
0:08:10 > 0:08:16we do. My question is how much of this disappointing performance was
0:08:16 > 0:08:22attributable to Government policies. I take it from what you say,
0:08:22 > 0:08:27Government policies have no effect at all? We in Government are not
0:08:27 > 0:08:29involved in forecasting issues now. That is why we have the Office for
0:08:29 > 0:08:34Budget Responsibility. They have set out the balance of reasons they
0:08:34 > 0:08:37have. I think the policy of the Government to maintain fiscal
0:08:37 > 0:08:44credibility is making a positive contribution to the UK economy over
0:08:44 > 0:08:47the medium term. I hear you say nothing about taking any of the
0:08:47 > 0:08:51responsibility for this dismal performance. Are you seriously
0:08:51 > 0:08:58claiming that the rebalancing that we were told was going to happen is
0:08:58 > 0:09:03happening? Well there are certainly signs of it. If you heard Mervyn
0:09:03 > 0:09:07King's speech yesterday, which I know you reported last night, part
0:09:07 > 0:09:11of his argument was that the rebalancing is going on underneath
0:09:11 > 0:09:17these figures. Isn't the truth of the matter, Mr Alexander, that you
0:09:17 > 0:09:21are collaborating in a doctrine of Conservative experiment which is
0:09:21 > 0:09:25not working? I don't agree with that at all. I don't agree that
0:09:25 > 0:09:29financial discipline is ideolgical. I think it is something that is the
0:09:29 > 0:09:33key to good financial p management of the country. If you look at what
0:09:33 > 0:09:37has happened in other countries, going back to 2010, when we came
0:09:37 > 0:09:41into office, had faller budget deficits than we had, but not taken
0:09:41 > 0:09:46the decisions to control their own public finances, they are in great
0:09:46 > 0:09:50deal worse position as a result. You inherited a quartly growth rate
0:09:50 > 0:09:55of 1.1%. You have failed -- quarterly growth rate of.1%, you
0:09:55 > 0:09:59have failed to match it in a single quarter since? We inherited a
0:09:59 > 0:10:03position where our credit rating was on negative watch. We are
0:10:03 > 0:10:07talking about growth rates? The two are closely related. If we were in
0:10:07 > 0:10:12a position where our credit rating was downgraded and there was not a
0:10:12 > 0:10:15policy, which there wasn't when we came into office, to deal with the
0:10:15 > 0:10:18financial problems. The impact directly on the economy would have
0:10:18 > 0:10:22caused a much more severe problem than the undoubted difficulties as
0:10:22 > 0:10:25a country we are facing at the moment.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29So there is no possibility whatsoever of you abandoning this
0:10:29 > 0:10:32experiment, it will carry on? will stick to our plans on the
0:10:32 > 0:10:35fiscal position in the economy, absolutely, dealing with the
0:10:35 > 0:10:40deficit, dealing with the debt problems. Regardless of the damage
0:10:40 > 0:10:43it is doing? I don't accept your argument on that. But what I was
0:10:43 > 0:10:47going to go on and say is there are many other things as a Government
0:10:47 > 0:10:51we can do to support the economy to help build prosperity in the future.
0:10:51 > 0:10:56You are wedded to further cuts, the last time we spoke I asked you
0:10:56 > 0:11:01whether you were going into the next election, promising yet more
0:11:01 > 0:11:04deeper cuts. Your reply was, I am afraid so. Would you like to
0:11:04 > 0:11:09withdraw or rephrase that now? I wouldn't like to withdraw or
0:11:09 > 0:11:13rephrase that now. As a coalition Government, we have set out in the
0:11:13 > 0:11:17Autumn Statement, plans, numbers for further spending reductions in
0:11:17 > 0:11:20future years, we will have to fill out what those mean in due course.
0:11:20 > 0:11:25Of course it will be for political parties in their manifestos to set
0:11:25 > 0:11:30out whether they wish to make adjustments to those things.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33whatever happens you are going to stick with this policy that you and
0:11:33 > 0:11:37your friend George Osborne have cooked up? It is a policy that
0:11:38 > 0:11:41across the coalition Government, we have worked on and developed and
0:11:42 > 0:11:49are now delivering as a Government. I think that is the right thing for
0:11:49 > 0:11:53the country. Given the degree of credibility, in terms of the bond
0:11:53 > 0:11:56markets and the interest rates and the impact that has in the real
0:11:57 > 0:11:59economy, very substantial. The idea some how stepping away from that
0:11:59 > 0:12:04now, potentially causing interest rates to rise, would be completely
0:12:04 > 0:12:08the wrong thing to do. For the avoidance of any possible doubt,
0:12:08 > 0:12:12the Liberal Democrats are committed to these cuts which will happen
0:12:12 > 0:12:16after the next election? We are committed to the spending plans
0:12:16 > 0:12:19that we set out, we set out those spending plans in the Spending
0:12:19 > 0:12:23Review, and then in the Autumn Statement. Clearly there will have
0:12:23 > 0:12:27to be further work done in terms of what that means in detail. There
0:12:27 > 0:12:33will then have to be further work, of course, for political parties to
0:12:33 > 0:12:36put forward in their manifestos as to whether they want to make
0:12:36 > 0:12:39changes to the manifestos. We are committed in Government, Liberal
0:12:39 > 0:12:43Democrats and Conservatives, to the plans we set out in the Autumn
0:12:43 > 0:12:47Statement, yes. As Chief Secretary to the Treasury, can you tell us
0:12:47 > 0:12:52when the public debt will come below a trillion pounds? Not off
0:12:52 > 0:12:57the top of my head, no. I can tell you that on the plans that we have
0:12:58 > 0:13:04set out, as we will meet the goal we set, to have the level of public
0:13:04 > 0:13:07debt falling as share of GDP by 2015. That is an important part of
0:13:07 > 0:13:11our plan to restore the credibility of the public finances. A trillion
0:13:11 > 0:13:18pounds is a lot of money. It is. You have no idea when we are going
0:13:18 > 0:13:22to get below it? It is 64.5% of GDP. The debt is forecast on the OBR's
0:13:22 > 0:13:27last forecast to peak in the high 70s of GDP and then start coming
0:13:27 > 0:13:31down. Clearly when it comes back down to that level as a share of
0:13:31 > 0:13:35GDP will depend on future policies and future spending reviews. I
0:13:35 > 0:13:39certainly would agree with you, that getting our proportion of debt
0:13:39 > 0:13:43down, over the medium term, will continue to have to be a priority
0:13:43 > 0:13:47for future Governments, absolutely. You will be long retired, won't
0:13:47 > 0:13:52you? Well, I have turned 40 this year, I hope you might give me a
0:13:52 > 0:13:56wee bit of credit. Our economics editor, Paul Mason,
0:13:56 > 0:13:59is still here. What's the prediction, it will get worse
0:13:59 > 0:14:03before it gets better f it gets better? The danger is there is a
0:14:03 > 0:14:07spiral. The last time we had a one quarter blip down, is it righted
0:14:07 > 0:14:13itself. Tonight we are looking at one oil refinery and two steel
0:14:13 > 0:14:16works, in danger of job losses, in administration, a whole shrew of
0:14:16 > 0:14:19retail companies in retail administration over Christmas. The
0:14:19 > 0:14:23way out of it, all sides of politics recognise that more could
0:14:23 > 0:14:30be done on growth. But the problem s for the Government, if you add
0:14:30 > 0:14:33the missing jigsaw piece to its current strategy, it is fiscally a
0:14:33 > 0:14:36Conservative strategy, the missing -- conservative strategy, the
0:14:36 > 0:14:42missing jigsaw piece is a big privatisation and marketisation of
0:14:42 > 0:14:46the public services, and it is an assault on wage costs, on unit
0:14:47 > 0:14:51labour costs on the economy. It is quite a Thatcherite thing. You saw
0:14:51 > 0:15:00there Mr Alexander, from an essentially Keynsian party, Vincent
0:15:00 > 0:15:03Cable a notable Keynsian, they have a different way. They -- They have
0:15:03 > 0:15:07a speech tomorrow urging the Government to bring tax cuts. How
0:15:07 > 0:15:11do you get to the growth bit is the Government's problem. The figures
0:15:11 > 0:15:16on manufacturing were especially bad, are parts of the economy just
0:15:16 > 0:15:19gone for good? Yes, we are beginning to realise how bad it is.
0:15:19 > 0:15:26The economy just doesn't seem to be able to grow without creating
0:15:26 > 0:15:32inflation, and chokes off economic growth. 20%, the official figure is
0:15:32 > 0:15:36output is 4% lower than in 2008. On one calculation f you add that to
0:15:36 > 0:15:42the decline in the value of sterling, then internationally you
0:15:42 > 0:15:45could say the UK economy has shrunk by 20%. One of the problems is we
0:15:45 > 0:15:51don't really know how to dig ourselves out of it, except by more
0:15:51 > 0:15:55radical measures than the political system at the moment can deliver.
0:15:55 > 0:16:01The London Olympic Games look about to be plunged into controversy.
0:16:01 > 0:16:04Indian athletes are troubled by the organisers' decision to accept
0:16:04 > 0:16:11sponsorship for part of the stadium from the Dow Chemical Company. The
0:16:11 > 0:16:16deal is worth �7 million. But the critics say the company hasn't
0:16:16 > 0:16:20behaved properly over compensation for the victims of the Bhopal
0:16:20 > 0:16:27disaster. In a moment we will hear from an Olympic commissioner who is
0:16:27 > 0:16:33on the point of resignation over this. First we report.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37They call it a wrap, a kilometer- long plastic covering that will
0:16:37 > 0:16:40adorn the Olympic stadium as a symbol of the world coming together.
0:16:40 > 0:16:45It is proving to be devisive, the wrap will be paid for a chemical
0:16:45 > 0:16:50giant with corporate ties to the worst industrial disaster in modern
0:16:50 > 0:16:53times. In 1984, poison news gas leaked from tank at the Union
0:16:53 > 0:16:59Carbide plant in Bhopal, central India, killing around 4,000 people
0:16:59 > 0:17:06in the immediate aftermath, and thousands later. In 1989, the
0:17:06 > 0:17:12Indian Supreme Court ordered union cash bite to pay $470 million in a
0:17:12 > 0:17:21final settlement for the catastrophy. In 1999 union car bite
0:17:21 > 0:17:26was bought by -- Union Carbite was bought out by Dow Chemical Company.
0:17:26 > 0:17:32Protests have continued, and sometimes violently, and Dow's
0:17:32 > 0:17:35sponsorship of the Olympic wrap has brought criticism. You can't buy a
0:17:35 > 0:17:40company and then say everything the company has done in the past has
0:17:40 > 0:17:42nothing to do with you. We are talking about a clean up that is
0:17:42 > 0:17:46absolutely the responsibility of Dow Chemical Company. We are
0:17:46 > 0:17:51talking about hundreds of thousands of people living with the
0:17:51 > 0:17:57consequences of water that is contaminated, that their children
0:17:57 > 0:18:07are drinking. Dow, whose chemicals are also used in the Olympic's
0:18:07 > 0:18:16
0:18:16 > 0:18:20The International Olympic Committee has a clean stadia policy. That
0:18:20 > 0:18:26basically means within the confines of each event, there can be no
0:18:26 > 0:18:31overt branding or sponsorship. That begs the question, why would the
0:18:31 > 0:18:35chemical company, Dow, spend �7 million on a branding that no-one
0:18:35 > 0:18:39can see. The experts say it is money well
0:18:39 > 0:18:43spent in showing that it is an ethical company, not bound by its
0:18:43 > 0:18:48connection to the Bhopal tragedy. The parallel perhaps to understand
0:18:48 > 0:18:52the situation they are in is almost when the British Government, under
0:18:52 > 0:18:56Tony Blair, apologised for things that happened in the Colonial past
0:18:56 > 0:19:01that had nothing to do with him or his Government. But they need to
0:19:01 > 0:19:07find some way to draw a line under the affair.
0:19:07 > 0:19:14Then there is the potential damage to London 2012's own image. After
0:19:14 > 0:19:18spending almost �10 billion on a seven-week sporting jam bourry,
0:19:18 > 0:19:22Olympic big wigs and a myriad of backers, won't want sportsmanship
0:19:22 > 0:19:26to be lts legacy the organisers of 2012 say they are satisfied that
0:19:26 > 0:19:33Dow Chemical Company were neither the owners or operators at the time
0:19:33 > 0:19:36of the chemical leek in 1984 in Bhopal, and any lingering issues
0:19:36 > 0:19:41are not related to Dow Chemical Company, which are sponsoring the
0:19:41 > 0:19:44wrap around the stadium. With six months to go before the wrap is
0:19:44 > 0:19:49unfurled, the public may have a different view on whether it should
0:19:49 > 0:19:53have been sponsored by someone else. We're joined now by Meredith
0:19:53 > 0:19:58Alexander, a commissioner for sustainability for the London
0:19:58 > 0:20:04Olympics. What possible harm can it do for Dow to sponsor the Olympics?
0:20:04 > 0:20:07When I first started looking at the issue I was given information by
0:20:07 > 0:20:10Amnesty International, that has convinced me that Dow Chemical
0:20:10 > 0:20:20Company bears the responsibility for the death of 20,000 people in
0:20:20 > 0:20:22
0:20:22 > 0:20:31the aftermath. 20,000 people, Dow Chemical Company, they didn't even
0:20:31 > 0:20:34own union -- Union Carbide at the time. There was a full and final
0:20:35 > 0:20:38settlement agreed by the highest court in the land? That is the
0:20:38 > 0:20:41truth they like to present. There are on going court cases in India
0:20:41 > 0:20:46and the United States. The Government in India itself has
0:20:46 > 0:20:50asked to have the settlement undone. More importantly, the victims and
0:20:50 > 0:20:54the families of the people who died have also demanded that justice be
0:20:54 > 0:21:00done. The company, Dow Chemical Company, emphatically denies that
0:21:00 > 0:21:06it has any liability, and that it has behaved entirely properly and
0:21:06 > 0:21:11the thing is settled. If they were to give in to this pressure, what's
0:21:11 > 0:21:15to say there wouldn't be another lot of claims in another ten years
0:21:15 > 0:21:21or twenty years time? It is simple, when they bought the company, they
0:21:21 > 0:21:26bought the liability. In Bhopal's case, it is a toxic legacy. What
0:21:26 > 0:21:30needs to happen is there needs to be true justice. From the moment
0:21:30 > 0:21:33that final settlement, called, started, the victims came out very
0:21:33 > 0:21:37strongly to say they had not been involved and they had not been
0:21:37 > 0:21:42consulted. If you look at the court documentation, it is very clearly
0:21:42 > 0:21:47that the numbers of victims that were expected to be compensated
0:21:47 > 0:21:50under that settlement, they are almost no relationship to the true
0:21:50 > 0:21:55number of victims to the tragedy. How strongly do you feel about
0:21:55 > 0:22:00this? Very strongly. What are you doing about it? I'm choosing to do
0:22:00 > 0:22:04is, I'm member of the Commission for Sustainable London 2012. It is
0:22:04 > 0:22:09a body that has been asked to look at the sustainability and ethics of
0:22:09 > 0:22:13the 2012 games. By coming on here tonight talking to you about this,
0:22:13 > 0:22:20I have taken the decision to resign from that commission to stand up
0:22:20 > 0:22:25for my principles. You are resigning as of now, 10.58.
0:22:25 > 0:22:35afraid so, yes. What effect will that have? It allows me to stand up
0:22:35 > 0:22:36
0:22:36 > 0:22:40for my principles. I feel the body I'm part of has to look at the
0:22:40 > 0:22:43claims. It will bring attention to the victims' side of the story. In
0:22:43 > 0:22:47so many cases you hear from the company, they have an army of PR
0:22:47 > 0:22:50people to put their side of the story forward. The victims, the
0:22:50 > 0:22:53people who have really experienced this tragedy, and the families of
0:22:53 > 0:22:57the people who died in this tragedy, they are not the ones people listen
0:22:57 > 0:23:01to. There are how many of you commissioners? About a dozen of us.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05And are any others going to resign? I know people are very concerned
0:23:05 > 0:23:09about this issue. What they will chose to do, I couldn't tell you.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12For me personally, it was an incredibly difficult decision to
0:23:12 > 0:23:16take. It doesn't sound terribly difficult? It was, I have to say I
0:23:16 > 0:23:19think the commission has done some amazing work. It is really doing
0:23:19 > 0:23:28everything it can on most issues to make the games sustainable. I just
0:23:28 > 0:23:32think it got it wrong this time. Unfortunately this is an iconic
0:23:32 > 0:23:34case. This is one of the worst abuses of human rights in my
0:23:34 > 0:23:38generation. I couldn't sit by and let it stand as it was.
0:23:38 > 0:23:42Thank you very much. In a few minutes we will discuss
0:23:42 > 0:23:46whether you can be a feminist and a Tory with the MP Louise Mensch and
0:23:46 > 0:23:50with Laurie Penny. First we have the third of our films marking the
0:23:50 > 0:23:55start of the Chinese new year. The grey cloud hanging over Europe is a
0:23:55 > 0:23:58very long way from China, of course, except in so far as the economic
0:23:58 > 0:24:02crisis means there is less demand for the things China makes. The
0:24:02 > 0:24:09economy there is kept afloat by a massive cheap work force who
0:24:09 > 0:24:15migrate from the countryside to the city in search of better pay and a
0:24:15 > 0:24:21better life. These migrant workers work and live under a system that
0:24:21 > 0:24:31is against them. We have travelled to a city where social tensions are
0:24:31 > 0:24:47
0:24:47 > 0:24:52China's wealth is not built on oil or gold, it is built on cheap
0:24:52 > 0:24:57labour. Workers who are denied the same rights as the city dwellers
0:24:57 > 0:25:05they live alongside. But this other China is now coming out of the
0:25:05 > 0:25:11shadows. This is a story about the frustration about a class long
0:25:11 > 0:25:14considered separate and invisible to the rest of China. About rising
0:25:14 > 0:25:21tension between local and migrant workers, which threatens the
0:25:21 > 0:25:31stability of Chinese society itself. The pressure is getting up day by
0:25:31 > 0:25:34
0:25:34 > 0:25:43day. So many riots and conflicts. Some days it is going to explode.
0:25:43 > 0:25:47This is the province of Guangzhou in southern China. Progressive and
0:25:47 > 0:25:54capitalist, population, 100 million, two-thirds locals, one third
0:25:54 > 0:25:57migrants. Tension is rising.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01TRANSLATION: We have a very tiny share of the wealth, our lives have
0:26:01 > 0:26:08not improved that much. Wages are low, inflation is high. Migrant
0:26:08 > 0:26:12workers are scraping a living, we're only just getting by. There
0:26:12 > 0:26:18has been a wave of strikes and protests here. A clandsetine
0:26:18 > 0:26:21meeting at the back of a restaurant. These workers forced an 11-day
0:26:21 > 0:26:25shutdown over conditions at a local watch factory. TRANSLATION:
0:26:25 > 0:26:29hours are long, the work is hard, there is a lot of pressure on us,
0:26:29 > 0:26:39there is no outlook for our unhappiness. People have felt
0:26:39 > 0:26:42
0:26:42 > 0:26:47oppressed for a long time. The pressure is building up.
0:26:47 > 0:26:50Entertainment at the factory gates. Managers believe dancing will keep
0:26:50 > 0:26:54the workers happy. There are thousands of protests every year
0:26:54 > 0:26:58from the migrant workers and the pressure doesn't end when the shift
0:26:58 > 0:27:02is over. These migrants face the risk of meeting protection squads,
0:27:02 > 0:27:11hired by locals to keep order. They live under the shadow of violence
0:27:11 > 0:27:16In this advice centre I met a doorman who used to sell fruit at a
0:27:16 > 0:27:19market. He told me what happened when a fellow stall holder refused
0:27:19 > 0:27:24to pay protection money. TRANSLATION: Suddenly four locals
0:27:24 > 0:27:27showed up on motorbikes, they had been drinking. They attacked him
0:27:27 > 0:27:32and beat him with sticks, it lasted for two hours, eventhough the
0:27:32 > 0:27:37police station was just around the corner. When the police finally did
0:27:38 > 0:27:45come he was all swollen, his face was purple and green. Migrant
0:27:45 > 0:27:50workers are vulnerable because they don't have what is known as a huko.
0:27:50 > 0:27:54Huko is your residency permit in China, it guarantees legal rights
0:27:54 > 0:28:03as well as access to schools, hospitals and welfare. But only in
0:28:03 > 0:28:07your home town or village. It was designed under Chairman Mao, to
0:28:07 > 0:28:12stop people from moving. But in the last few decades hundreds of
0:28:12 > 0:28:22millions of people have moved to find work. And now they live in
0:28:22 > 0:28:26
0:28:26 > 0:28:33limbo. This is what not having a local huko means. Education is
0:28:33 > 0:28:37largely free to locals, but migrants must pay. Almost a year's
0:28:37 > 0:28:47salary to put your child through Primary School. A third of these
0:28:47 > 0:28:48
0:28:48 > 0:28:54children are from migrant families, this child's parents are migrants,
0:28:54 > 0:28:58the school has waved his fees because his -- waived his fees
0:28:58 > 0:29:04because his family faces other problems. He's a very good student,
0:29:05 > 0:29:11every morning he reads English at home for one hour. What happened to
0:29:11 > 0:29:18his mother? His mother got sick, and every month she would go back
0:29:18 > 0:29:28to the hospital to see the doctor, and they should pay a lot of money
0:29:28 > 0:29:30
0:29:30 > 0:29:36to see the doctor. So their life is very difficult. His parents earn
0:29:36 > 0:29:41�60 a week. Just enough to get by on until his mother found a lump in
0:29:41 > 0:29:46her breast. Doctors told her she had cancer. But she needed a
0:29:46 > 0:29:54mastectomy, but without a local huko she would have to pay for it
0:29:54 > 0:30:00herself. The family has gone deep into debt. TRANSLATION: I have been
0:30:00 > 0:30:10crying since the moment I found out. I lost a breast. I no longer feel
0:30:10 > 0:30:16
0:30:16 > 0:30:20like a woman. Our fate is a bitter one. TRANSLATION: -- Factories are
0:30:20 > 0:30:25supposed to provide medical care for those without a huko, her's
0:30:25 > 0:30:29made a contribution, and then docked her wages and tried to sack
0:30:29 > 0:30:34her. TRANSLATION: The factory tried to make me resign, I said I can't
0:30:34 > 0:30:39afford to leave, I have contributed to the insurance, and now I'm ill
0:30:39 > 0:30:44and need the money they want me to go. Caught between the gaps in
0:30:44 > 0:30:50China's system, turned away because she's not an official residence.
0:30:50 > 0:30:53Just because you are a non-huko holder and I don't see a medical
0:30:53 > 0:30:56insurance report, I'm sorry you have to go to another hospital.
0:30:56 > 0:31:06Seriously sick people are turned away from hospital because they
0:31:06 > 0:31:08
0:31:08 > 0:31:17don't have this permit? Yes. This woman runs a workers' health line,
0:31:17 > 0:31:22every day the staff hear hundreds of calls. Migrants are increasingly
0:31:22 > 0:31:27vocal about the discrimination they face. Resentment is growing. It is
0:31:27 > 0:31:33getting more serious. According to the records there are so many roidz
0:31:33 > 0:31:37and conflicts, and even strike -- riots and conflicts and strikes. As
0:31:37 > 0:31:47they are migrants they are not accepted as a local huko holder.
0:31:47 > 0:31:48
0:31:48 > 0:31:53This is what can happen when anger explodes, the town of Zunchung in
0:31:53 > 0:31:57June. It began with a rumour that a pregnant woman had been assaulted
0:31:57 > 0:32:02by local protection squads, it descended into a riot. The chaos
0:32:02 > 0:32:08lasted for three days, cars flipped over, buildings torched. Government
0:32:08 > 0:32:18offices ransacked. Disharmony and instability, the
0:32:18 > 0:32:20
0:32:20 > 0:32:23thing which China's leaders fear most. For many years it didn't
0:32:24 > 0:32:27matter that millions of migrants didn't have proper access to
0:32:27 > 0:32:32hospitals and schools. Because everyone was on the make. But the
0:32:32 > 0:32:36long boom is over, life in China's getting harder, food prices are
0:32:36 > 0:32:41rising, job opportunities are shrinking, and public services are
0:32:41 > 0:32:48under intense pressure. Suddenly, a large population of restive
0:32:48 > 0:32:53unregistered migrants looks like a problem for China's leadership.
0:32:53 > 0:32:59There is new talk of equality. The communist party admits the problem
0:32:59 > 0:33:02is serious. It wants to be seen as responding to migrants' concerns.
0:33:02 > 0:33:06TRANSLATION: Migrant workers live and work in this city, we must
0:33:06 > 0:33:09provide them with basic rights and benefits. If they can't educate
0:33:09 > 0:33:15their children or find decent housing they will be dissatisfied
0:33:15 > 0:33:20with the Government. If we don't reform huko, we could see more
0:33:20 > 0:33:24instability. The Government's language is changing. Migrants can
0:33:24 > 0:33:34now apply for the same rights as city residents under a points-based
0:33:34 > 0:33:35
0:33:35 > 0:33:38system, based on education and skills. There is a need it keep
0:33:38 > 0:33:43garment factories like this open and keep the workers coming here.
0:33:43 > 0:33:48So far few permits have been issued. Last year 3,000 permits from a
0:33:48 > 0:33:53population of millions. A drop in the ocean.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56If you recognise the problem, why don't you just do away with this
0:33:56 > 0:34:05distinction, why don't you treat all the residents of the city the
0:34:05 > 0:34:09same now? TRANSLATION: We can't abolish huko overright, our policy
0:34:09 > 0:34:14does, however, create a clear path for migrant workers to obtain the
0:34:14 > 0:34:18same benefits and services as local residents. But there is a huge cost
0:34:18 > 0:34:26associated with that. That is why we are introducing the points
0:34:26 > 0:34:32system gradually. The Government fears unrest, but it is equally
0:34:32 > 0:34:36scared of the huge cost of absorbing migrants, of public
0:34:36 > 0:34:41services swamped, of city dwellers in revolt. But this new generation
0:34:41 > 0:34:45of workers may not wait much longer. Internet cafes are where many young
0:34:45 > 0:34:50Chinese migrant workers spend their one day off a week. Aspirational,
0:34:50 > 0:34:53aware, on-line. This generation of Chinese migrant workers matters,
0:34:53 > 0:34:59because they are so very different from their parents. They live their
0:34:59 > 0:35:04lives on-line. They are part of a much bigger world. Compared to the
0:35:05 > 0:35:14last two generations, there they have a more open-minded mind set,
0:35:14 > 0:35:19also they have a better channel to express themselves. That leads to a
0:35:19 > 0:35:29consequence that the tension is getting more and more serious. The
0:35:29 > 0:35:36
0:35:36 > 0:35:40Government knows that. The huko system was designed for a very
0:35:40 > 0:35:47different China, to stop rural poor overwhelming the cities.
0:35:47 > 0:35:57For years it prevented chaos. Now it could be fuelling disorder. But
0:35:57 > 0:35:58
0:35:58 > 0:36:02the migrants are here to stay. There was once a slogan on an
0:36:02 > 0:36:06Australian door that went viral in the days before anything could go
0:36:06 > 0:36:10viral, "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle". In the years
0:36:10 > 0:36:16since its invention, feminism, we are told, has become an integral
0:36:16 > 0:36:21part of our politics, a belief that gender equality is indispensable to
0:36:21 > 0:36:24electability, since half the population don't carry the Y
0:36:24 > 0:36:32chromosome, the left and the Labour Party have made a point of
0:36:32 > 0:36:36associating left politics with feminism. Can you be a feminist and
0:36:36 > 0:36:41a cfrb? I'm a strong Conservative myself
0:36:41 > 0:36:46and always have been. Time was you knew a Tory woman when
0:36:46 > 0:36:50you saw one. Buttoned up, respectable, knowing her place.
0:36:50 > 0:36:55Even the woman who became the party's first female leader played
0:36:55 > 0:36:58the game. There is still a little bit sticking up, you can see it in
0:36:58 > 0:37:02the reflection. But once she had stormed Downing Street, there was
0:37:02 > 0:37:09something else on display, the mouth of Marilyn Monroe, said the
0:37:09 > 0:37:18President of France, and the eyes of Calig ula, a steely
0:37:18 > 0:37:24determination, draped in a twinset. The lady's not for turning.
0:37:24 > 0:37:31Robert Widders had to quit politics before she could -- Anne wid comb
0:37:31 > 0:37:35had to quit politics -- Widdicombe had to quit politics before showing
0:37:35 > 0:37:40her feminist side. Some other stories play by different rules,
0:37:40 > 0:37:43this is the MP for Corby, Louise Mensch. Her latest announcement is
0:37:43 > 0:37:46that Conservative women have brought feminism out of the ghetto.
0:37:46 > 0:37:51Oh yes. Louise Mensch is here now, along
0:37:51 > 0:37:55with Laurie Penny, from the left- leaning New Statesman magazine. Do
0:37:55 > 0:37:59you think you can be a feminist and right-wing? Of course you can be a
0:37:59 > 0:38:03feminist and right-wing. There is a long history of reactionry right-
0:38:03 > 0:38:10wing politicians using feminism, blowing the horn of feminism to
0:38:10 > 0:38:15support their plilgts. Folks some of the early Suffragettes co-ofpted
0:38:15 > 0:38:20by the fascist movement. -- co- opted by the fascist movement. I'm
0:38:20 > 0:38:25not calling you a fascist, but it doesn't mean facisim was good for
0:38:25 > 0:38:31women. There are lots of different types of feminism, but some of them
0:38:31 > 0:38:36are wrong. That is an interesting way to put it. It is right to talk
0:38:36 > 0:38:40about the Suffragettes, we didn't see Mrs Pankhurst in that. The
0:38:40 > 0:38:44Conservatives first gave the vote to women, the Conservatives Women's
0:38:44 > 0:38:48Organisation was the first political organisation for women in
0:38:48 > 0:38:52the world. Just to forestall the letters, it was the first female MP
0:38:52 > 0:38:58who took her seat was a Conservative. Accuracy is very
0:38:58 > 0:39:03important, indeed Nancy Astor and David Cameron named his daughter
0:39:03 > 0:39:07after her. I have great respect for Laurie is a key voice for the left,
0:39:07 > 0:39:10aged only 25, I don't think there is a wrong kind of feminism, there
0:39:10 > 0:39:14are different types of feminism. I always believe in politics you want
0:39:14 > 0:39:17to get to the same goal and the left and right have different
0:39:17 > 0:39:22methods of getting there. This article that sparked this thought,
0:39:22 > 0:39:28that you wrote for the Guardian. You used this phrase about taking
0:39:28 > 0:39:31feminism out of the ghetto. What do you mean? That was a sub-heading. I
0:39:31 > 0:39:35said there is a ghetto of the impact equalties assessment, by
0:39:35 > 0:39:39which I meant, of course, that Tory feminism looks at women as a
0:39:39 > 0:39:43holistic thing, you don't just look at called women's issues. You say
0:39:43 > 0:39:46raising the personal allowance takes 1.1 million out of tax all
0:39:46 > 0:39:50together, most of those are women. You are looking at policies that
0:39:50 > 0:39:53affect women as a whole, you don't just look at issues that the press
0:39:53 > 0:40:00would like to label as called women's issues. Women's politics is
0:40:00 > 0:40:04bigger than that. And Tory feminism I believe is an holistic feminism
0:40:04 > 0:40:07and Laurie Penny might have a different view. You can talk about
0:40:07 > 0:40:14holistic feminism all you like, Louise, but when you have policies
0:40:14 > 0:40:19that will put more women out of work than at any time since records
0:40:19 > 0:40:23began. And threatening a woman's right to choose, I can't see a
0:40:24 > 0:40:27feminism that is useful for women. It maybe feminism, but not one that
0:40:27 > 0:40:31will positively affect women's lives. Feminism isn't just about
0:40:31 > 0:40:35winning women's votes, which is what most politicians use and
0:40:35 > 0:40:38brandish the term around really want, feminism is about improving
0:40:38 > 0:40:41women's lives. There is nothing inherently wrong in want to go win
0:40:41 > 0:40:47votes, that is how you win elections and that is how you get
0:40:47 > 0:40:52things done in politics. It is not an accesssory you put on and win
0:40:52 > 0:40:57votes and make people pay attention to you. Winning votes is important,
0:40:57 > 0:41:00every politician is pitching to get support. To take a lead with women
0:41:00 > 0:41:04even in incredibly important times, it shows the policies have a wider
0:41:04 > 0:41:07appeal to women, and women must feel, by wider definition, these
0:41:08 > 0:41:11policies are directly beneficial to their lives. I think it is
0:41:11 > 0:41:14important that feminists of the right and left come together to
0:41:14 > 0:41:18challenge things and make common cause. Something I would like to
0:41:18 > 0:41:24put you on the spot about is the lack of women on the Today
0:41:24 > 0:41:28programme. I have nothing to d with the programme? You represent the
0:41:28 > 0:41:33BBC. I am a hired hand? We were talking in the dressing room, and
0:41:33 > 0:41:37the Guardian has a plan to challenge the BBC on their lack of
0:41:37 > 0:41:43female representation. We have nothing but women on tonight,
0:41:43 > 0:41:47except from Danny Alexander, the beleaguered man. I think there is
0:41:48 > 0:41:52case to answer for the BBC. back to the point? That the woman
0:41:52 > 0:41:56should know her place. We are talking about representation.
0:41:56 > 0:42:01Absolutely, the point of feminism is that there is no gender
0:42:01 > 0:42:05discrimination, but there is one issue in particular, on which there
0:42:05 > 0:42:09clearly is a female perspective, that is the question of
0:42:09 > 0:42:13reproductive rights, abortion, the right to choose, the right to life.
0:42:13 > 0:42:17Can you be a feminist and believe in the right to life? I think it is
0:42:17 > 0:42:21probably where we differ. I don't think you can be a feminist and
0:42:21 > 0:42:25oppose a woman's right to choose safe, legal abortion, what you are
0:42:25 > 0:42:28effectively saying, if you attack a woman's right to choose is that you
0:42:28 > 0:42:32are prepared to force a woman to undergo pregnancy against her will.
0:42:32 > 0:42:37That is the bottom line, it is the bottom line of quite a lot of
0:42:37 > 0:42:42feminism. I would put it to Louise if she really believes in women's
0:42:42 > 0:42:46rights f she really believes that women are important as human beings
0:42:46 > 0:42:49in a holistic feminism, surely you will oppose this Government's, and
0:42:49 > 0:42:53members of the party in Government's efforts to attack
0:42:53 > 0:42:57women's rights to choose. Will you oppose that when it next comes on
0:42:57 > 0:43:01the bill. There is no take on the women's rights to choose in America.
0:43:01 > 0:43:06Unlike in America where it is a litmus test for politics, we have
0:43:06 > 0:43:10the free vote system in this country and well defended. You have
0:43:10 > 0:43:15taken a position on abortion counselling? Yes, my position is it
0:43:15 > 0:43:18ought to be widened. I have not in any sense tried to restrict
0:43:18 > 0:43:24abortion providers to provide counselling, I respect the work
0:43:24 > 0:43:27they do serving women. I have good faith and full credit if they wish
0:43:27 > 0:43:31to continue providing counselling they could. I want the service
0:43:31 > 0:43:36widening so women have access to counselling from a wide variety of
0:43:36 > 0:43:41providers. I don't wish to limit any of the work abortion
0:43:41 > 0:43:44counsellors does. I recognise as a good pragmatist and a Tory that
0:43:44 > 0:43:48this is a pro-choice country. There is no concerted attack on the right
0:43:48 > 0:43:52to choose. Most Tories I know are pro-choice, the vast majority of
0:43:52 > 0:44:01women in the Conservative Party are pro-choice, the Conservative
0:44:01 > 0:44:06Women's Association is pro-choice. Nadine Dorrie isn't? She would
0:44:07 > 0:44:10describe herself as pro-choice in parts, but I don't share her views.
0:44:10 > 0:44:13The upcoming debates will be an take on the legal time limit on
0:44:13 > 0:44:18abortion, which is another way of restricting women's access to
0:44:18 > 0:44:23abortion services, I would ask again, will you be opposing those
0:44:23 > 0:44:27measures in parliament. If there was debate on the time limit I will
0:44:27 > 0:44:31vote as the Prime Minister did, for a modest reduction in the limit
0:44:31 > 0:44:34which many men and women of all parties will vote for. I want to
0:44:34 > 0:44:37ask you one thing, in this article you refer to David Cameron as the
0:44:37 > 0:44:42most feminist leader the Conservative Party has ever had?
0:44:42 > 0:44:45doubt at all. More than Mrs Thatcher? More than Mrs Thatcher.
0:44:45 > 0:44:49I'm sitting here because he did something about the lack of women's
0:44:49 > 0:44:52representation, as there is on the BBC, where are the older news
0:44:52 > 0:44:59readers, you don't like to hear it but it is true. You say what you
0:44:59 > 0:45:09like, direct it to the right people. This is the BBC. Tomorrow morning
0:45:09 > 0:45:19
0:45:19 > 0:45:24One. Brightest ballet stars in Britain has suddenly quit the Royal
0:45:24 > 0:45:34Ballet. His motives seem a bit of a mystery, he's clearly a brilliant
0:45:34 > 0:46:13
0:46:13 > 0:46:17A cooler feel to our weather tomorrow. It will be a wet start
0:46:17 > 0:46:22across eastern counties of England. That rain soon scoots away, the
0:46:22 > 0:46:26skies will brighten. Sunshine but also showers. With the colder air
0:46:26 > 0:46:31those showers will have a wintry flavour. Snow over the Pennines,
0:46:31 > 0:46:35low levels of northern England, a little snow can't be ruled out.
0:46:35 > 0:46:38Hail across the East Midlands, for many a fine afternoon with sunshine
0:46:38 > 0:46:41coming through. Sunny spells and showers across South-West England,
0:46:41 > 0:46:45again up over the moors, there could be a little bit of snow, the
0:46:46 > 0:46:50same for Wales over the hills and mountains, some snow is possible at
0:46:50 > 0:46:55low levels. We are more likely to encounter hail and showers. For
0:46:55 > 0:46:59Northern Ireland wintry showers in the morning. It could also be icey.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02Ice is also a risk across Scotland first thing in the morning. It
0:47:02 > 0:47:05could be some snow showers through the Glasgow area particularly in
0:47:05 > 0:47:10the middle part of the day. That is something to keep an eye on. Friday
0:47:10 > 0:47:14promise as mix of sunshine and showers, subtle differences, not as
0:47:14 > 0:47:19many showers in Scotland. A better chance of sunshine here. A wet day
0:47:19 > 0:47:21in Manchester. For the south, Friday promises sun and wintry
0:47:21 > 0:47:27showers, temperatures back to normal.