:00:09. > :00:12.Every one of these women has had silicone implants inserted into her
:00:12. > :00:16.breasts, the process was certificated safe, in many cases it
:00:16. > :00:19.certainly wasn't. Who should pay for them to be removed? Most women
:00:19. > :00:23.had their breasts changed, not because they were ill or suffering,
:00:23. > :00:28.but because they wanted to look different. If they pay to have them
:00:28. > :00:32.put in, should they also have to pay to have them extracted.
:00:32. > :00:36.would never think that somebody would put something in your body
:00:36. > :00:41.that shouldn't be there, that is dangerous. You know, but even if
:00:41. > :00:44.you pay for it either. Nevertheless, tens of thousands of
:00:44. > :00:52.women in this country have had these things inserted into their
:00:52. > :00:58.bodies, but why? The former page 3 model, Katie Price, once boasted
:00:58. > :01:02.she was "famous for my tits", which she has variously enlarged and
:01:02. > :01:07.reduced. Naomi Wolf wrote the book that expectations about women's
:01:07. > :01:10.appearances are a form of tyranny. Also tonight, the Russian Foreign
:01:11. > :01:20.Minister arrives in Syria, to a huge pro-democracy demonstration,
:01:21. > :01:23.
:01:24. > :01:28.he hopes to stop the violence, is The immediate questions raised by
:01:28. > :01:32.the scare over breast implants are pretty clear. One, is there any
:01:32. > :01:37.need to have them removed, and how urgently? And two, who should pay
:01:38. > :01:43.for that operation. 95% of women who have had them, have done so for
:01:43. > :01:48.cosmetic reasons, in private clinic, the NHS medical direct to doesn't
:01:48. > :01:51.even know who they all are. He told a committee of MPs today, there was
:01:51. > :01:56.significant uncertainty about whether the PIP implants were safe
:01:56. > :01:59.or not. The NHS is only offering to remove implants it inserted, but
:01:59. > :02:02.should the taxpayer also foot the bill for taking out something put
:02:02. > :02:12.in for purely cosmetic reasons, to make a private company money.
:02:12. > :02:15.
:02:15. > :02:22.Before we talk this through with our guest, we report.
:02:22. > :02:29.I'm really angry, really angry. That anybody could be so negligent
:02:30. > :02:33.as to put these in womens' bodies. They wanted to change the way they
:02:34. > :02:38.looked, and opted for cosmetic surgery, but now they are angry,
:02:38. > :02:41.like hundreds of thousands of women around the world, they were given
:02:41. > :02:51.breast implants made from silicone that should not be inside their
:02:51. > :02:55.bodies. The implants came from a French
:02:55. > :03:00.company called PIP, it turned out, its founder, Jean-Claude Mas, had
:03:00. > :03:04.been dodging inspectors in France, filling the implants, not with
:03:04. > :03:14.biologically compatible silicone, but an industrial grade, normally
:03:14. > :03:14.
:03:14. > :03:21.used to fill mattresses. Emma Bennie paid �4,000 for her implants
:03:21. > :03:27.in 2009. She told us they changed her life. About 3,000 of the 40,000
:03:27. > :03:30.or so women in the UK who had PIP implants, are thought to be NHS
:03:30. > :03:33.patients, fitted after cancer surgery, but the vast majority
:03:33. > :03:40.chose to go through the operation for other reasons.
:03:40. > :03:45.I felt inadequate as a woman, you know, things like going on holiday
:03:45. > :03:50.or taking my kids swimming, you know, feeling really self-conscious
:03:50. > :03:54.about putting on a swimsuit, going into the water, even being married.
:03:54. > :04:03.Feeling inadequate as a wife, really. So I really, really wanted
:04:03. > :04:08.to get it done. I'm glad I did. She wants to go ahead with new
:04:08. > :04:13.implants, but wants the PIP ones taken out. I wouldn't have liked to
:04:13. > :04:18.be walking around another day with something that's poisonous inside
:04:18. > :04:24.my body, because it is a scary thought.
:04:24. > :04:27.Emma is one of the luckier ones, the implant furore erupted a few
:04:27. > :04:29.days before Christmas this year, when French -- last year, when
:04:29. > :04:37.French authorities recommended women should have their implants
:04:37. > :04:41.taken out, because they had a higher than average rupture rate.
:04:41. > :04:47.Emma's clinic, Nuffield Health, said it would remove and he replace
:04:47. > :04:53.implants for free. This allows me to remove her
:04:53. > :04:58.implant, and her implant is intact, and is in pretty good condition.
:04:58. > :05:02.So Emma's in the middle of her operation, she is having her PIP
:05:02. > :05:09.implants removed and replaceed with a different brand. This is the one
:05:09. > :05:13.that has just been taken out. The surgeon is looking for rupture or
:05:13. > :05:17.leakage, this one is fine. Jean- Claude Mas, who founded the PIP
:05:17. > :05:21.company, was arrested last month. He has since been charged with
:05:21. > :05:25.causing bodily harm, and faces a separate fraud trial. But are there
:05:25. > :05:29.others who let these women down? What about the regulators?
:05:29. > :05:32.The warning signs had been there for years, the company itself had
:05:32. > :05:37.faced court action for at least a decade, French investigators have
:05:37. > :05:41.been looking into PIP for the past two years, reported last week, they
:05:41. > :05:49.found that French health authorities were sent an anonymous
:05:49. > :05:54.tip-off back in 1996. The regulator here in the UK is the medicines and
:05:54. > :05:57.healthcare products regulatory agency, or MHRA, in 2009, lawyers
:05:57. > :06:01.warned the agency they were receiving reports of problems. It
:06:01. > :06:05.was not until 2010 when the French found unauthorised material in the
:06:05. > :06:10.implants and banned them, that the agency began testing the gel.
:06:10. > :06:15.There are now widespread questions about the way the MHRA goes about
:06:15. > :06:21.its job. The editor of the medical journal, the lance set, foark, has
:06:22. > :06:25.said the whole PIP scandal, was an inevitable result of paralysis at
:06:25. > :06:29.the healthcare regulator. He said their whole approach was to do
:06:29. > :06:32.nothing until something goes wrong. Nuffield Health was the first
:06:32. > :06:37.clinic to offer patients free removal and replacement. They want
:06:37. > :06:41.to see a new registry and better regulation. Andrew Jones is a GP
:06:41. > :06:47.and their group Medical Director. He's concerned that more might have
:06:47. > :06:51.been done sooner. Providers were notified in the form
:06:51. > :06:55.of a medical device alert in March 2010, that is when we took the
:06:55. > :06:59.decision to write to patients to call them in to see their
:06:59. > :07:04.consultants. Its clear in subsequent correspondence we have
:07:04. > :07:10.had with the MHRA, there were issues known about these implants
:07:10. > :07:20.as far back as 2008. The MHRA says it took up concerns in 2008, before
:07:20. > :07:35.
:07:35. > :07:40.Back at Emma's operation, and her surgeon has now removed her second
:07:40. > :07:44.implant. There is some leakage, which used to happen with older-
:07:44. > :07:48.style implants and common with PIP. This implant has a little gel bleed,
:07:48. > :07:52.it is getting slimey on the surface. No-one can yet know the long-term
:07:52. > :07:58.effect of this leakage of industrial grade gel, that is even
:07:58. > :08:04.from implants that have not ruptured. What about the private
:08:04. > :08:09.clinics that made profits from PIP implants. A surgeon from
:08:09. > :08:14.Birmingham's Queen Elizabeth Hospital told us in 2005, she was
:08:14. > :08:17.so appalled by one patient's ruptured PIP implant that she wrote
:08:17. > :08:22.to the plastic surgeries' Bible, the British Institute of Plastic
:08:22. > :08:26.surgeries about the case. response to that article, a letter
:08:26. > :08:29.came back, another surgeon saying it is a problem, I have seen more
:08:29. > :08:32.of this. There must have been other people out there beginning to think
:08:32. > :08:36.there was a problem. The clinics that were putting in thousands of
:08:36. > :08:39.those, I think, they must have been knowing there was something going
:08:39. > :08:44.on. If they were following up their patients at all, they must have
:08:44. > :08:48.been aware. Alison Hope told us she has wanted
:08:48. > :08:52.implants since she was about 20. She had the operation in 2008, but
:08:52. > :08:57.now wants them taken out. Her clinic, The Hospital Group, wants
:08:57. > :09:01.her GP to arrange a scan, to see if they are ruptured. If I have them
:09:01. > :09:06.replaced, whether I pay for them or not, I have to sign a wavier to say
:09:06. > :09:11.that I won't sue the company, and I won't take it any further.
:09:11. > :09:15.contacted the Hospital Group, to ask why they are doing this, they
:09:15. > :09:19.have not responded. Her lawyer is one of a team bringing a group
:09:19. > :09:24.action against the clinics. Do you want to have the operation or not,
:09:24. > :09:28.in which case you sign away all your rights, or do you hold on and
:09:28. > :09:31.hope that at some point in the future somebody will pay for the
:09:31. > :09:37.operation to be done privately. It is a terrible position for the
:09:37. > :09:41.women to be in. Has the Government done enough? The
:09:41. > :09:44.Health Secretary, Andrew Lansley, has insisted there is no need for
:09:44. > :09:54.routine removal, even as other countries have said the opposite.
:09:54. > :09:58.He now recognises women's anxieties and says NHS patients and any woman
:09:58. > :10:03.let down by her private clinic can have them removed, but not replaced,
:10:03. > :10:07.on the NHS. Alison's lawyer, Richard Langton, wrote to Mr
:10:07. > :10:11.Lansley last month, suggesting a way to avoid the estimated �100
:10:11. > :10:16.million or more it could end up costing the NHS. He has not had an
:10:16. > :10:21.answer. The main issue here is to get the insurance industry, suring
:10:21. > :10:25.all the clinics, to accept their responsibility, to indemify the
:10:25. > :10:29.clinics and pay compensation to women, so they can have the
:10:29. > :10:33.implants removed and replaced. Emma's operation has been a success.
:10:33. > :10:36.Tests may have shown there is no risk of cancerer from this gel, but
:10:36. > :10:42.many women have been left feeling less than reassured about possible
:10:42. > :10:46.long-term health effects, and in a state of limbo.
:10:46. > :10:52.We asked the larger clinics and hospital groups, who carried out
:10:52. > :10:55.PIP breast implants, if they talked to Newsnight. Nuffield Health were
:10:55. > :10:59.in that report, but none of the others we asked was available to
:10:59. > :11:05.come on the programme this evening. To discuss this now we are joined
:11:05. > :11:10.by women from all over the country who have had PIP implants, and the
:11:10. > :11:15.Health Minister, Anne Milton. Gemma, why did you have this? Personally,
:11:15. > :11:18.myself, I breast fed two children for two years, and it affected me
:11:18. > :11:22.greatly by doing that. I was uncomfortable in front of my
:11:22. > :11:27.husband getting changed, I was very, very depressed, I considered going
:11:27. > :11:32.to the NHS and requested their help and decided it wasn't fair to do
:11:32. > :11:36.that, I saved up and went privately. How much did it cost you? Near
:11:36. > :11:40.�5,000. Was it easy to get that money? Up until a couple of months
:11:40. > :11:44.ago we were still paying it off, to then be told I may have to pay that
:11:44. > :11:49.again, was obvious low not going down very well. Laura, why did you
:11:49. > :11:54.get your's done? I had mine done when I was 21 years old, I just
:11:54. > :11:59.felt quite inadequate and not very feminine, I thought long and hard
:11:59. > :12:04.about it, and researched the various different clinics before I
:12:04. > :12:08.made my decision. I got recommended to go to the particular clinic I
:12:08. > :12:13.went to by some friends of mine. you regret it? Yeah.
:12:13. > :12:17.When did you start regreting it? When I found out about the PIPs,
:12:17. > :12:22.over the Christmas period. That was this year, they have been in you
:12:22. > :12:28.some time? They have. I have just found out on Friday mine have
:12:28. > :12:33.actually ruptured. What does that mean? They have broken inside my
:12:33. > :12:36.body and it has gone into my lymph nodes. Have you seen the doctor
:12:36. > :12:42.about that? My GP doesn't know about the long-term health effects
:12:42. > :12:51.of that, that is a major worry for When you went to your GP, Sian
:12:51. > :12:57.Clarke, what were you told? Sorry Rebecca Ashton, what were you told
:12:57. > :13:02.when you went to see your GP? was fantastic, I went about four
:13:02. > :13:05.weeks ago, he referred me for an MRI scan, a letter from the NHS
:13:05. > :13:09.saying MRI testing and all these things. He was going to help me get
:13:09. > :13:17.the testing that I needed. everybody had the same experience
:13:17. > :13:21.with their GP? No. No. What's your experience? My experience initially,
:13:21. > :13:23.although my GP did refer me for a scan, my clinic went into
:13:23. > :13:29.administration. They seemed dismissive about it. One of the
:13:29. > :13:35.laidios I spoblg to recently, her GP -- spoke to recently, sorry the
:13:35. > :13:43.NHS member of staff she saw for her scan, that she was a waste of their
:13:43. > :13:47.resources. You are a waste of our resources. Was any explanation
:13:47. > :13:51.again given -- given for that response? No it was a member of
:13:51. > :13:55.staff giving her opinion, a human being that needed help. Do you
:13:55. > :13:58.think these women are a waste of NHS resources? I feel sorry,
:13:58. > :14:02.talking to some of the women before we started. There is a very mixed
:14:02. > :14:05.picture. It is really good to hear where GPs have responded, and a
:14:05. > :14:09.couple of you have said you have been threeted excellently, but
:14:09. > :14:14.there is no - treated excellently, but there is no room for comments
:14:14. > :14:19.like that. For a lot of women, not just those with PIP implants, there
:14:19. > :14:23.will be concerns and they need to talk about them and, if necessary,
:14:23. > :14:26.have scans. Do you think pip pim implants are dangerous -- PIP
:14:26. > :14:29.implants are dangerous? evidence at the moment is they are
:14:29. > :14:35.not, but it doesn't stop women worrying about them. There are two
:14:35. > :14:39.things we need to look at, whether the regulations work properly,
:14:39. > :14:43.these were something kite marked. One further thing, when you can
:14:44. > :14:48.come back. Should they be removed? I'm not a doctor, so I'm not in a
:14:48. > :14:52.position to say. You are supposed to know what is going on? I'm not a
:14:52. > :14:57.clinician, I don't know. As I say, the lady who went to her GP,
:14:57. > :15:02.referred for a scan, that is good. Two days before my actual scan and
:15:02. > :15:07.testing, I got a letter from the NHS saying everything was cancelled.
:15:07. > :15:11.I rang the NHS and asked why have you cancelled, I were heartbroken,
:15:11. > :15:14.they said go back to your doctors in two weeks and they will know why.
:15:14. > :15:18.To get a letter the day after saying I was going to have a
:15:18. > :15:22.routine scan. There was no sorry, or I can help. She asked for my
:15:22. > :15:28.name, the details would be on the screen, she never let me know and
:15:28. > :15:31.put the phone down on me. Gemma you wanted to come back? Whatest iting
:15:31. > :15:35.has been done, to what extent has this testing been done. There is a
:15:35. > :15:40.lot of testing in France, which is why it all came about. The testing
:15:40. > :15:44.done there has found that 6% they have taken out are ruptured, and 2%
:15:44. > :15:49.are bleeding. As much as if they rupture there will be trouble, it
:15:49. > :15:58.is the bleeding, it is a chemical, a mattress filler that should not
:15:58. > :16:00.be in the human body. What this lady is raising, it was in the last
:16:00. > :16:04.few days the European Commission saying there is no evidence to date.
:16:04. > :16:08.What I am saying is it is really important in a situation like this
:16:08. > :16:12.that we collect research as we go along. That uncertainty is what is
:16:12. > :16:15.really, really hard for women to live with. We are not being told,
:16:15. > :16:20.that is my question to you, who is doing this research, what research
:16:20. > :16:24.is actually being done. It needs to be filtered back to all of us. It
:16:24. > :16:27.feels like nothing is being done. That's right, I think that point is
:16:27. > :16:32.important. Which is why we put adverts in the paper. There was a
:16:32. > :16:40.lot of uncertainty in the middle of January. Even then that was three
:16:40. > :16:47.weeks too late, this came out 23rd of December, it wasn't until the
:16:47. > :16:51.18th of January before we got the first advert. The NHS is pretty
:16:51. > :16:57.stressed, why should tax-payers pay for this. When you go back to the
:16:57. > :17:01.clinic that did the operation, have they been helpful? Rose? I had done
:17:01. > :17:04.my privately, a cosmetic place, where I went, they went into
:17:04. > :17:09.liquidation, they dissolved and opened up as another company, I
:17:09. > :17:12.went to them and said are they PIP implants, they said, yeah, they
:17:12. > :17:16.can't do anything about it, they are a new company, they have
:17:16. > :17:21.dissolved. I have nowhere else to turn to. I don't really want the
:17:21. > :17:26.NHS to pay for it, I want the company to pay for it. You have
:17:26. > :17:29.your hand up at the back? I don't want to get forgotten about. I want
:17:29. > :17:34.to ask a question about why you think they are safe, when so many
:17:34. > :17:39.of us women, who have the PIP implants, all have the same health
:17:39. > :17:43.problems, and all the same symptoms, and they are not, there is not
:17:43. > :17:46.little problems, they are bigger problems. I'm getting menopause
:17:46. > :17:52.symptoms, I'm 26 years old. Why are all these tests not being done to
:17:52. > :17:56.find out what this stuff is doing to our bodies. Can I add, a lot of
:17:56. > :18:00.women who have gone back to surgeries, I showed my surgeries
:18:00. > :18:08.the difference in my shame and what I looked like -- shape and what I
:18:08. > :18:12.looked like, I had mine done in 2004, they weren't normal, I they
:18:12. > :18:15.sent me away, and it is more than two years. There are two issues, we
:18:15. > :18:18.heard in that report of a clinic that is acting really responsibly.
:18:18. > :18:22.And the story that you have given tonight is what I have heard from a
:18:23. > :18:26.lot of women, they don't want the NHS to pay, they want the companies
:18:26. > :18:30.who did this to come up and do what they should do, which is why we
:18:31. > :18:36.have said that we will take them out. The NHS is a place of last
:18:36. > :18:41.resort. We are almost alone in Europe in refusing, hang on a
:18:41. > :18:46.second, the public health service, we are almost alone in not offering
:18:46. > :18:51.this service to women? The Welsh are offering to use the NHS to
:18:51. > :18:54.remove them and replace them with new ones if necessary, why not in
:18:54. > :19:01.England? If we need to take them out we will take them out and we
:19:01. > :19:05.will go after the companies. What about the depression, the anxiety,
:19:05. > :19:09.living day-to-day. Shouldn't they get a scan? Anybody with concerns
:19:09. > :19:12.needing to to their doctor. There are 40,000 women, a big queue, we
:19:12. > :19:16.are all waiting in the queue, and you think the door is open and then
:19:16. > :19:20.you are back behind the other 40,000. I know, there is other
:19:20. > :19:25.women waiting for surgery for other reasons as well, we have to cater
:19:25. > :19:29.for it all. It doesn't help if they are ruptured. I know you are really
:19:29. > :19:34.angry and anxious, I can't solve it tonight. We have been clear what we
:19:35. > :19:40.will do. You could make a ruling, you could make a ruling that anyone
:19:40. > :19:45.who is anxious and had implants is entitled to a scan at the very
:19:45. > :19:51.least? We need an MRI scan, we have a scan that tells us that girls
:19:51. > :19:57.have gone for scans, everything is clear, they are not happy. What
:19:57. > :20:02.about that? This lady at the back talking about menopauseal symptoms,
:20:02. > :20:08.the NHS is there available. They are not doing anything. For people
:20:08. > :20:13.who have got a clinical need. 26 years old. You are saying they
:20:13. > :20:17.are entitled to an MRI scan simply to set their minds at rest to see
:20:17. > :20:21.if they will pursue the clinic. needing to to the GP and get the
:20:21. > :20:24.referral. I have got it and got cancelled off the NHS. The trouble
:20:24. > :20:28.is I asked talk about your individual situation. I don't know
:20:28. > :20:33.why they cancelled it. Neither do they, they wouldn't tell me, they
:20:33. > :20:38.put the phone down on me. It is not getting filtered, there is no clear
:20:38. > :20:43.line, it is not straight down the line. We need a system put in place.
:20:43. > :20:47.There is a system in place, I specifically asked the Chief
:20:47. > :20:51.Medical Officer to write again to GPs. We will put that up on an NHS
:20:52. > :20:56.Choices website so you can see it. What undertaking will you give
:20:56. > :21:01.these women tonight? undertaking is the NHS is available,
:21:01. > :21:07.free for you. They arele telling you it doesn't work. People
:21:07. > :21:13.stkpwhrrb they are telling you it doesn't work? People want the NHS
:21:13. > :21:17.just to help. If your clinic won't see you, you need to go to the GP,
:21:17. > :21:23.the GP can arrange for a scan for you, you need to be able to get the
:21:23. > :21:28.reassurance you need, or not, or have the implant removed. And some
:21:28. > :21:36.women have had them removed, some women have been scanned, some have
:21:36. > :21:39.not. Why don't you ask the Chief Medical Officer or someone to issue
:21:39. > :21:42.an instruction? I went to the doctor, he said to me, the other
:21:42. > :21:46.day, he helped me from the beginning he said there is nothing
:21:46. > :21:51.they can do. Somebody's doctor, who was on one of the for yums laughed
:21:51. > :21:54.at that letter, and said, gave it back to her. I know you have
:21:54. > :21:59.guidelines, they are not all following them. I think you have
:21:59. > :22:04.hit the nail on the head, that's what I have heard before, which is
:22:04. > :22:06.why we reissued it, which is why we will put it up tonight, so all of
:22:06. > :22:11.you have got that information. If you are not getting the treatment
:22:11. > :22:14.you need, you need to contact your local PCT, who will make sure you
:22:14. > :22:18.will get the treatment, that is what they are there for. I want to
:22:18. > :22:23.move the conversation on a little bit, if I may, the editor of the
:22:23. > :22:28.Sun, up before the inquiry into the press today, tried to explain away
:22:28. > :22:31.his paper's page 3 girls, by saying they celebrated natural beauty. The
:22:31. > :22:35.point about breast implants is they are not natural, the intriguing
:22:35. > :22:38.question may be more intriguing to men than women, is why women would
:22:38. > :22:44.choose to have foreign objects stuck into their bodies. This is
:22:44. > :22:50.what two of our guests here tonight felt.
:22:50. > :22:59.When I was younger I always felt very confident about myself. I
:22:59. > :23:05.never saw myself as having cosmetic surgery in the future.
:23:05. > :23:10.I started having children at 20, I'm 44 now, I have six children. I
:23:10. > :23:14.breast fed them all, I looked at my breasted and one seemed different,
:23:14. > :23:17.and I decided to go ahead and have surgery on myself. Anyone with
:23:17. > :23:21.children will realise they don't feel the same as they used before,
:23:21. > :23:25.that feeling that was before, to me was what I wanted to try to grab
:23:25. > :23:29.back. I think if someone was to say it is vanity and being vain, I
:23:29. > :23:32.would probably say, yeah, you are right, because this is how I have
:23:32. > :23:36.been brought up to see myself, I like to go out, and I like to look
:23:36. > :23:41.good. I like to walk the street and feel confident. So, yeah, probably
:23:41. > :23:45.a bit of vanity does come into that, what is the problem with that. Just
:23:45. > :23:49.because a woman wants to look good, we put make-up on to feel good, we
:23:49. > :23:56.dye our hair to feel good, what is the problem with having surgery to
:23:56. > :24:02.feel good. I didn't do it for vanity, I did it
:24:02. > :24:11.for personal reasons. It was what I wanted, to make me a whole person,
:24:12. > :24:18.make me feel more like a woman. I chose to have breast surgery
:24:18. > :24:25.because I had a hysterectomy, after I had my two boys. I didn't feel
:24:25. > :24:30.womanly, because I had no breast tissue after having my two boys. So
:24:30. > :24:35.I was really depressed, I went into a really deep depression. So I went
:24:35. > :24:42.to see my GP, and my GP said to me, if it is what you want, and what
:24:42. > :24:50.you feel is right, then go ahead, if it makes you happy. Sow I did.
:24:50. > :24:59.-- so I did. Then after my surgery, I felt so much better, a lot more
:24:59. > :25:05.womanly, more whole as a person. Katie Price, the former topless
:25:05. > :25:12.model known as Jordan joins us now, as does the author of the Beautiful
:25:12. > :25:17.Losers, Naomi Wolf. You have had -- the beauty Myth, Naomi Wolf. You
:25:17. > :25:24.have had several operations, what would your advice to the 18-year-
:25:24. > :25:29.old? If I had my way there would be an age limit, up it to 21. I had my
:25:29. > :25:33.first boob job at 18, it is too young. You don't counsel against it,
:25:33. > :25:37.it is a risky procedure? procedure is risky, of course it is,
:25:38. > :25:42.you are going under the knife, it is anaesthetic. People should know,
:25:42. > :25:46.any cosmetic surgery, if you are going under the knife, it is a big
:25:46. > :25:49.risk. Have they made you happy? have had bad experiences, and I was
:25:50. > :25:53.recommended what was I thought the best doctor. It is not the best
:25:53. > :25:58.doctor and the best boob job, it is about your body and how your body
:25:58. > :26:02.takes to it. Having implants, anything foreign you put in your
:26:02. > :26:06.body your body can naturally reject it. People have problems with
:26:06. > :26:10.anything. No, I would say I'm happy with them, I should be now, I have
:26:10. > :26:14.had enough done. I was going to say, to keep on changing you weren't
:26:14. > :26:19.happy with how they were? trouble is, I don't know about you
:26:19. > :26:23.ladies how many boob jobs you have had, when I first had my implants I
:26:23. > :26:31.always knew I wanted them bigger, it took me three sizes to get to
:26:31. > :26:37.the size I wanted. If they had done them initially it would have been
:26:37. > :26:40.fine. You had three them smaller? had three kids and they drop, I had
:26:40. > :26:44.them smaller. How did we get to the stage where women are changing
:26:44. > :26:51.their body shape to make them happier? It is two different things,
:26:51. > :26:54.we can talk about the pressure to fit in the one-size-fits-all idea.
:26:54. > :26:58.But women have been lied to, and by the people who are supposed to
:26:58. > :27:02.represent them. It breaks my heart. There is 25 years of data, which if
:27:02. > :27:05.you don't know this, I respectfully don't think you are in the right
:27:05. > :27:11.job, confirming that these breast implants. You are addressing these
:27:11. > :27:16.comments to the minister? Of course I am. She is in the wrong job?
:27:16. > :27:21.she doesn't know this, and millions know it, I wrote a book about it in
:27:21. > :27:25.1993, that was reported in every major media outlet, and the Food
:27:25. > :27:28.and Drug Administration in the United States outlawed silicone
:27:28. > :27:34.breast implants because they were giving the kinds of problems you
:27:34. > :27:39.ladies were suffering from, will you please puss-like symptoms,
:27:39. > :27:44.autoimmune disorders, anxiety, jitters, diabetes-like system,
:27:44. > :27:49.inflamation, swelling, rupt turs. I'm not a scientist, I wrote the
:27:49. > :27:54.beauty myth when I was 26 years old, I'm aing English major. I saw in
:27:54. > :27:58.British -- I'm an English major. But I saw in British Medical
:27:58. > :28:04.Journals, those doctors putting the implants in, were sold insurance
:28:04. > :28:08.because there is a 35-70% rupture rate, you have to order in
:28:08. > :28:13.multiples because they will rupture in women. The women's magazines I
:28:13. > :28:17.was reading was saying it is like changing your dress, and it is
:28:17. > :28:22.people like you who need to tell the truth. I am telling the truth,
:28:23. > :28:29.and I resent that. Any operation carries a risk. You said there is
:28:29. > :28:35.no data, ...I Think it is really important that we will have a
:28:35. > :28:40.review of the whole cosmetic industry. There is data already.
:28:40. > :28:44.are in this because we have PIP implants put in our body that
:28:44. > :28:50.shouldn't have been there. feels there is data around, I'm not
:28:50. > :28:53.lying I tell what you I know today. Silicone migrates into the human
:28:53. > :28:57.body and causes these problems. weren't we told about that, if they
:28:57. > :29:01.are countries know about that. Given from what we know you
:29:01. > :29:06.believe? It is not my opinion. About female beauty. I'm not
:29:06. > :29:09.talking about silicone implants, I am talking about the implants, but
:29:09. > :29:15.not the medical consequences, I'm talking about your beliefs about
:29:15. > :29:19.women's body shapes and what women do to their bodies to conform to
:29:19. > :29:22.beauty, what do you think about the women? I think they made reasonable
:29:22. > :29:25.decisions based on what they knew and experiences and pressures they
:29:25. > :29:28.were having. And people they trust, like the Government. You heard the
:29:28. > :29:31.woman on the documentary say she can't believe the Government would
:29:31. > :29:36.allow something that could cause terrible health problems to be put
:29:36. > :29:39.into my body. These Harlow street doctors are making millions of
:29:39. > :29:43.pounds -- Harley Street doctors are making millions. They did it
:29:43. > :29:47.because they wanted to feel better about themselves or the predicament
:29:47. > :29:51.in which they found themselves. If cosmetic surgery makes them feel
:29:51. > :29:55.better about themselves, makes them hatchy, that's all right is it?
:29:55. > :29:58.think a woman should be allowed to do whatever they want with their
:29:58. > :30:03.bodies, but they are not children and deserve real information. There
:30:03. > :30:09.is a double standard, you don't have major industries putting
:30:09. > :30:15.dangerous, proven to rupture, up to 70% rates, into mens' bodies, there
:30:15. > :30:20.would be a huge joit cry, heads would roll, women are treated like
:30:20. > :30:23.guinea pigs in our culture, it is not right. Katie Price, did you
:30:23. > :30:28.feel under pressure to have the changes to your body that you made?
:30:28. > :30:32.No, even when I was at school, I remember at 16 I went to Transform,
:30:32. > :30:36.and said I wanted bigger boobs, I wore the pads in the bra. Why did
:30:36. > :30:40.you do that? I don't know, I have always wanted bigger boobs, they
:30:40. > :30:43.were small for me, they were like a B, a perfect size, but I knew I
:30:43. > :30:49.wanted bigger ones. They wouldn't do it and said come back when you
:30:49. > :30:54.are 18. Why? I didn't do it for my job. I did page 3 natural, they had
:30:54. > :30:58.a debate, when I said I would get the boobs done, the Sun had a
:30:58. > :31:01.public debate, and the high percentage said don't do it, I went
:31:01. > :31:06.and did it for myself. You must have thought about it more, when
:31:06. > :31:09.you say you did it for you? wanted bigger boobs, in clothes I
:31:09. > :31:13.feel better, they feel better. But people have to remember, you don't
:31:13. > :31:18.have to have big boobs, some people are happy to have them lifted, time
:31:18. > :31:24.of the month they change. It is interesting what Naomi raised about
:31:24. > :31:27.it being a womens' issue, I have heard there are young men having
:31:27. > :31:33.pec implants, young men having testicular implants, you need have
:31:33. > :31:36.had a nip and a tuck for all we know. Not yet. There is a lot of
:31:36. > :31:41.pressure on young men, being irregular in order, actually. Young
:31:41. > :31:45.men, 16, 17-year-olds are taking body enhancing drugs and going to
:31:45. > :31:51.the gym. This is something that is crossing all the genders now.
:31:51. > :31:53.sorry, for give me, the journalist in -- forgive me, the journalist in
:31:53. > :31:56.me can't bear you are not giving these women a straight answer about
:31:56. > :32:01.what your Government will do to pay for the health problems they are
:32:01. > :32:04.suffering because the Government lied to them and didn't engage in
:32:04. > :32:07.proper regulatory behaviour. You misrepresented, you told them on
:32:07. > :32:11.national television there is no evidence, that is a lie. Either you
:32:11. > :32:16.don't know or it is a lie. I think you need to be accountable for what
:32:16. > :32:24.you said. I take huge offence to you saying that I'm lying, because
:32:24. > :32:29.I can only tell you the best evidence I have. If I knew
:32:29. > :32:32.something that I wasn't saying today, I would say it. Are you
:32:32. > :32:35.aware, the Food and Drug Administration of the United States
:32:35. > :32:37.of America, outlawed silicone breast implants because of the
:32:37. > :32:42.health problems they were causing in women.
:32:42. > :32:48.What tests have you done to ensure that these are safe? To be left in
:32:48. > :32:52.our bodies? I rely on the evidence that we are given. Can you answer
:32:52. > :32:56.the question. They deserve an answer to that question. I can give
:32:56. > :33:02.them. There is a whole body. not give it now. Because I don't
:33:02. > :33:06.have it on me. Then you are underprepared. There haven't been
:33:06. > :33:10.any tested. All I can tell you now is the information I have. I have
:33:10. > :33:16.this information, I'm not lying to you, it is that at the moment there
:33:16. > :33:19.is no evidence to suggest, what I am saying, if Naomi is raising all
:33:19. > :33:25.sorts of other issues, and I will look into that. What is interesting
:33:25. > :33:30.is I haven't heard from them before now. Can I say something. Hang on a
:33:30. > :33:35.second, please, if everyone is talking at once, we can't hear
:33:35. > :33:40.anybody. Let's consider what effect this particular event is likely to
:33:40. > :33:44.have upon the desire of women like these women here, or Katie, to
:33:44. > :33:50.change their appearance. Would it make you think twice about ever
:33:50. > :33:55.having a procedure again? Like I say, I'm sympathetic with these
:33:55. > :33:58.girls, because I'm, touch wood, mine aren't PIP implants, as far as
:33:58. > :34:01.I know they are fine. Anything you put in your body that is foreign,
:34:01. > :34:07.there is always a risk, because it is not natural. People should know
:34:07. > :34:11.that. In their case, you know, I'm...Do You think people will be
:34:12. > :34:16.put off? I think they will be put off by what they hear, but they
:34:16. > :34:22.will go somewhere that don't have PIP implants and they will be fine
:34:22. > :34:27.again. It is just, it is torturing me, because, you know in 1993, you
:34:28. > :34:32.could see, I was warning everyone in Britain, these things are going
:34:32. > :34:35.to rupture, and here are the problems. Imen implant in my lower
:34:35. > :34:41.back, it is a medical device, it has been through rigorous testing,
:34:41. > :34:45.I said yes to the implant because I was assured that it was not going
:34:45. > :34:53.to go bad in five years and leak garbage into my body that would
:34:53. > :34:58.give me will you please puss and autoimmune dysfunction. These women
:34:58. > :35:01.-- lupus, and auto-immune dysfunction. People put all kinds
:35:01. > :35:05.of medical devices in their bodies that have been tested. When things
:35:05. > :35:08.go wrong people are accountable, there are lawsuits, Government
:35:08. > :35:12.ministers show up to say they are pulling it from the market because
:35:12. > :35:16.people are getting ill and suffering. Over and over again it
:35:16. > :35:24.is women's bodies and health, where it is like, let's empathise with
:35:24. > :35:29.you and not do anything concrete. When I saw my surgeon, and he said
:35:29. > :35:34.here's the implant, he gave me pins, squeeze it, I punched it, I threw
:35:34. > :35:40.it on the floor, I did all of it. I was paranoid thinking I want to
:35:40. > :35:45.know if it is safe. He said you will probably be dead, if you burst
:35:45. > :35:49.that impact. Why when I put loads of pins in it, and I squeezed it,
:35:49. > :35:53.it didn't leak. As far as I'm concerned that is fine. We are
:35:53. > :35:56.going to leave it there. Thank you all very much. Anyone expecting the
:35:56. > :35:59.Russian Foreign Minister to emerge from his visit to Syria today with
:35:59. > :36:02.a plan to bring peace to the country will have to wait.
:36:02. > :36:06.Precisely what he told President Assad we don't know. His claim that
:36:06. > :36:09.the President was totally committed to stopping the violence, was more
:36:09. > :36:16.than slightly at odds with the fact that Government troops are still
:36:16. > :36:22.shelling ebbs are. The quandary for the west is that -- shelling rebels.
:36:23. > :36:29.The quandary for the west is what are they to do. Lord Owen and the
:36:29. > :36:33.Tory MP Lord Stuart will discuss that in a moment. First this report.
:36:33. > :36:38.In Syria's embattled opposition strongholds, they curse Russia.
:36:38. > :36:44.But on the avenues of the capital, Damascus, they have been cheering
:36:44. > :36:50.it today. In the city of Homs, centre of the uprising, more died
:36:50. > :36:55.as the shelling continued. But in Damascus, crowds, estimated by
:36:55. > :36:59.state TV at one million, welcomed the Foreign Minister of the country
:36:59. > :37:03.that vetoed a UN resolution to end the bloodshed.
:37:03. > :37:09.Many were forced to come, the opposition claimed. But they
:37:09. > :37:12.sounded loyal enough. TRANSLATION: We have come here to
:37:12. > :37:15.welcome the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, and the
:37:15. > :37:19.intelligence chief, and to thank them for the support of Syria.
:37:19. > :37:23.TRANSLATION: The Russians will be able to see her living in safety,
:37:23. > :37:26.how the saboteurs have destroyed our country.
:37:26. > :37:31.Foreign Minister, Lavrov, and President Assad, apparently agreed
:37:31. > :37:34.on the need for a national dialogue in Syria, and for the Arab observer
:37:34. > :37:39.mission to continue. TRANSLATION: Russia is convinced of the need to
:37:39. > :37:45.retain and expand the mission, which is a serious, stablising
:37:45. > :37:52.factor in Syria. But with tanks on the streets, the observer mission,
:37:52. > :37:55.currently on hold, and Arab gulf states today Watchdog their
:37:55. > :37:59.ambassadors from Syria -- withdrawing their ambassadors, time
:37:59. > :38:02.is running out. It is too late in the game. The opposition doesn't
:38:02. > :38:08.want to talk to President Assad any more. Part of the international
:38:08. > :38:15.community, including the west and some Arab states, have essentially
:38:15. > :38:18.given up on Assad, on attempts to solve the situation, by means of a
:38:18. > :38:25.peaceful dialogue. There is more and more talk, one hears, both in
:38:25. > :38:30.the west, and in places like the gulf, of helping the opposition to
:38:30. > :38:36.topple Assad, and have a regime change in Damascus.
:38:36. > :38:40.It is easy to see why Russia, which provides Syria's military with arms,
:38:40. > :38:45.and has a naval supply base on its coast, might want to keep President
:38:45. > :38:51.Assad in power. But for Moscow, there is also a wider principle to
:38:51. > :38:57.defend. The Russian leadership does not believe in military
:38:57. > :39:05.intervention, especially if it comes amid civil war, the Russian
:39:05. > :39:09.leadership is also against regime change, on virtually anywhere. This
:39:09. > :39:16.is partly self-serving, they sometimes see themselves on the
:39:16. > :39:20.receiving end of other people's efforts to effect a regime change.
:39:20. > :39:25.The Kremlin is determined to limit a new opposition movement in Russia
:39:25. > :39:28.itself, but it believes -- that it believes is being encouraged by the
:39:28. > :39:33.west. But in Syria the movements to unseat President Assad may be
:39:33. > :39:37.unstoppable. It is not just that the opposition
:39:37. > :39:40.no longer wants dialogue, the experience of this former minister,
:39:40. > :39:46.I met recently in Damascus, suggests the regime doesn't want it
:39:46. > :39:49.either. He put forward this proposal for
:39:50. > :39:53.dialogue with the opposition months ago. He said President Assad met
:39:53. > :39:58.him once last September to discuss it, but there has been no further
:39:58. > :40:04.interest from anyone in power. TRANSLATION: Until now, there are
:40:04. > :40:08.no cracks in the Government, or the top military brass, or the ruling
:40:08. > :40:11.bathe party, on the other side it is not pos -- Ba'ath Party, on the
:40:11. > :40:14.other side, it is not possible to talk to people on the streets,
:40:14. > :40:19.because they have no leaders. Increasingly both sides think force
:40:19. > :40:23.is now the only way forward. The Free Syrian Army, made up of
:40:23. > :40:28.defectors from the state's forces, is hoping for arms from countries
:40:28. > :40:31.such as Qatar, which supplied the Libyan rebels last year. But
:40:31. > :40:35.geopolitics around Syria are very different.
:40:36. > :40:40.The Syrian opposition controls no stretch of territory. Let alone any
:40:40. > :40:47.border or coastline. The country's neighbours include Iraq, which has
:40:47. > :40:54.close links to Syria's greatest ally, Iran, Jordan, keen to avoid
:40:54. > :41:00.antagonising a larger neighbour, and lib non-, where the -- Lebanon,
:41:00. > :41:04.where the Hezbollah is the largest force. Turkey is against Assad, but
:41:04. > :41:09.Turkish diplomats have told me the idea of a protected buffer zone on
:41:09. > :41:15.the other side of its border, inside Syria, where the Free Syrian
:41:15. > :41:19.Army could mobilise, is impractical, politically and militarily.
:41:19. > :41:24.For all their efforts, then, outside powers seem unable to
:41:24. > :41:27.ensure either a military or political solution to the crisis.
:41:27. > :41:30.Tragically for now, there will be more talking among world leaders,
:41:30. > :41:35.and more shooting on Syria's streets.
:41:35. > :41:40.With us now is the former Foreign Secretary and the Balkans peace
:41:40. > :41:46.negotiator. We're also joined by the Conservative MP, Rory Stewart,
:41:46. > :41:51.who in a previous life was a deputy govern nor in southern Iraq. Given
:41:51. > :41:59.that -- Govan nor in southern Iraq. Given that western military option
:41:59. > :42:02.has been ruled out, what is left? There is there are very few options.
:42:02. > :42:06.There needs to be a regional solution, we have to restrain
:42:06. > :42:11.ourselves in Britain for trying to believe we are the solution to this
:42:11. > :42:15.problem. Many of the things we can do we have done. Such as? Sanctions,
:42:15. > :42:18.we have been through 19 rounds of sanctions, 100 people supported the
:42:18. > :42:22.opposition and the Arab League. What we can't do, I believe, it
:42:22. > :42:28.wouldn't make sense to do, is no- fly zones, safe areas, these kinds
:42:28. > :42:32.of things would be very dangerous. What options do you think are open?
:42:32. > :42:35.Not many, I think you could persevere with the United Nations,
:42:35. > :42:40.because you don't succeed in the UN, doesn't mean it is exhausted. You
:42:41. > :42:45.have to go back time and time again often, until you can get a better
:42:45. > :42:48.consensus. I think a solution probably does have to involve
:42:48. > :42:54.Russia accepting that they are party to a UN resolution. I know
:42:54. > :42:57.that is difficult for some people to accept, but Russia has interests.
:42:57. > :43:05.The old Soviet Union was a significant power in Syria, and
:43:05. > :43:13.they are not going to be brushed aside. It seems to me you have to
:43:13. > :43:16.go on arguing for a plan pretyo similar -- pretty similar to that
:43:16. > :43:20.offered by the Arab League. The one thing I would like to see involved
:43:20. > :43:24.more in the dialogue, not necessarily in action, and they are
:43:24. > :43:27.wise and have real interests, that is Turkey. Has it been sensible to
:43:28. > :43:35.commit ourselves to one side of what is now effectively a civil
:43:35. > :43:39.war? In the end we needed to make that choice. Bashir is inlegitimate,
:43:39. > :43:43.cruel and unpopular, the future has to be one wourt him. That was the
:43:43. > :43:47.right decision. I think that is an interesting point about Russia,
:43:47. > :43:50.Russia finally coming on side in Kosovo was very useful. The fact
:43:50. > :43:55.that Russia starts being non-co- operative, and starts making
:43:55. > :44:00.trouble, can put it in a strong position to co-operate later.
:44:00. > :44:04.is the Russian objective in this conflict? Not ob isolated, pushed
:44:05. > :44:09.aside, and -- not to be isolated, pushed aside and to retain a
:44:09. > :44:15.measure of interest in a Syria that will probably be a Syria without
:44:15. > :44:19.the Assads. The Assad family has form, you know, they brutally
:44:19. > :44:25.suppressed the very city they are now bombing again. I think that we
:44:26. > :44:31.may well watch and see that. Now, I only have this reservation, never
:44:31. > :44:35.rule out the use of force, when you are dealing with braual savage
:44:35. > :44:39.people, there might come a situation -- brutal, ZAFage people,
:44:39. > :44:43.there might come a situation where you have to use it. I agree it is
:44:43. > :44:48.not like Libya, I don't see a role for no-fly zones. But there comes a
:44:48. > :44:53.point, in any civil war, in modern times, when I don't think we are
:44:53. > :44:57.ready to just simply let it go on. Would you counsel against the use
:44:57. > :45:00.of force? I think it would be very foolish for Britain, NATO or the
:45:00. > :45:06.United States, Turkey is the only player that could possibly get
:45:06. > :45:10.involved. But the Turkish military relations are bad at the moment,
:45:10. > :45:15.there is no demand for that action. Turkey could be the only one but I
:45:15. > :45:18.don't see them do it. I was in Ankara last month, there is no
:45:18. > :45:22.doubt the military leaders were looking seriously at what they
:45:22. > :45:26.could do. I think honestly they have come up with the answer there
:45:26. > :45:30.isn't much they can do. It still means in any Contact Group or
:45:30. > :45:35.discussion group, we should try to get a stronger role for Turkey.
:45:35. > :45:39.Does this, though, look to you like a regime that is anywhere near
:45:39. > :45:43.collapse? No. And one of the reasons for that, unfortunately, is
:45:44. > :45:47.there is too much regional support from players like Iran, to some
:45:47. > :45:50.extent from Iraq. Even Lebanon hasn't actually been as co-
:45:50. > :45:54.operative as we would like. It is very, very tragic this situation,
:45:54. > :45:57.it is a horrible rae regime, we have to be consistent -- horrible
:45:57. > :46:03.regime, we have to be consistent that it must go. At the moment we
:46:03. > :46:08.don't have to give the impression that it is on its last legs.
:46:08. > :46:12.agree with that. Israel is saying nothing, watch carefully there,
:46:12. > :46:16.they know more about Syria than any of us, they know it inside and
:46:16. > :46:20.outside. That would completely change the nature of the game?
:46:21. > :46:25.Israel is very ambivalent about what will happen, they will watch
:46:25. > :46:30.very carefully, they are not sure which of it hits their interests.
:46:30. > :46:36.In the final analysis, this is going to come down to a
:46:36. > :46:42.humanitarian issue, does it get so bad that we just can't stand aside.
:46:42. > :46:47.At that juncture, would Russia come into some form of joint initiative?
:46:47. > :46:51.I like to think they would. Thank you both very much. That may be too
:46:51. > :46:55.optimistic. That's all from Newsnight tonight,
:46:55. > :47:05.much more tomorrow, until then, much more tomorrow, until then,
:47:05. > :47:27.
:47:27. > :47:30.Good evening, it is turning into a bitterly cold night out there, it
:47:31. > :47:37.could get as low as minus 15 on one or two spots of central England by
:47:37. > :47:41.the end of the night. A cold start to the day. A dusting of snow in
:47:41. > :47:45.the south-east, compounding the ice issues. More cloud into the
:47:45. > :47:49.afternoon in the north, strengthening breeze, it will feel
:47:49. > :47:53.cold. Further snow flurries across the south-east corner, here cold
:47:53. > :47:57.because of a raw north-east wind, adding to the wind chill. To the
:47:57. > :48:01.west and across a good part of Wales, it will be a fine and bright
:48:01. > :48:05.day, long spells of sunshine. It will be a cold one, especially in
:48:05. > :48:08.the breeze. It is starting to get a strength to the sunshine. It will
:48:08. > :48:12.feel probably a little less chilly. Northern Ireland though, a
:48:12. > :48:16.different story, cloud and outbreaks of rain throughout the
:48:16. > :48:19.day. The rain easing off at times. Same too across northern and
:48:19. > :48:22.western Scotland, there is a risk of ice in the short-term, in the
:48:22. > :48:26.east of Scotland it should be destroy and bright. Change is afoot
:48:26. > :48:30.for the northern half of the country into Thursday. First of all,
:48:30. > :48:34.you will notice some rain, the temperatures start to lift up, not
:48:34. > :48:37.much changing further south. Here temperatures struggling to get
:48:37. > :48:41.above freezing. A bit of cloud as well. The coldest weather there
:48:41. > :48:45.across much of England and Wales, mildest Scotland and Northern