:00:06. > :00:11.Another day, another slap around the chops for the legislation the
:00:11. > :00:14.Government says is vital to make the NHS work properly. The Prime
:00:14. > :00:19.Minister, and Health Secretary, say they won't wash their hands of the
:00:19. > :00:23.bill to reform healthcare. But how much damage is it doing?
:00:23. > :00:27.Two volumes, hundreds of amendments, as the complexity of this bill has
:00:27. > :00:30.grown, well the politics have got actually quite simple. It boils
:00:31. > :00:37.down to this, who does the public trust to run the health service.
:00:37. > :00:40.We have got a Health Minister, and GPs on opposite sides of the fence.
:00:40. > :00:44.Would you believe a promise made by these Greek politicians, because if
:00:44. > :00:49.they can't be trusted, the euro is in big, big trouble.
:00:49. > :00:52.Paul Mason is here. Greece just signed up for years of
:00:52. > :00:57.austerity to avoid default. But is it actually an economic suicide
:00:57. > :01:00.note. Is sending this perfectly run of
:01:00. > :01:06.the mill helicopter pilot to the south Atlantic part of mill
:01:06. > :01:09.terrorising the Falklands. The Argentines claim it is. Who is the
:01:09. > :01:13.bigger imperialist, Britain or Argentina.
:01:13. > :01:16.No captain, now no manager, Fabio Capello resigns as England boss,
:01:16. > :01:22.leaving the country's national game in crisis, again.
:01:22. > :01:25.The work speaks for itself, but in case you are in any doubt, the
:01:25. > :01:30.world famous, Yayoi Kusama, puts us right on what she's trying to do
:01:30. > :01:40.with her art. (she sings)
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :01:44.According to the Prime Minister, there are huge numbers of people in
:01:44. > :01:50.this country, who support his plans to reform the health service.
:01:50. > :01:54.Perhaps they are all suffering from Lauren giet tis. One professional
:01:54. > :01:59.body after another has come out against them, over 100 Government
:01:59. > :02:06.amendments have lopped off bits and pieces. The Conservatives claim its
:02:06. > :02:09.vital organs are intact, but there are louder than louder than usual
:02:09. > :02:13.moans from Downing Street, about how the Health Secretary has made a
:02:13. > :02:17.botch job of the whole thing. David Grossman, clamped on the blue light
:02:17. > :02:21.and sped down to Westminster. You can't say David Cameron hasn't
:02:21. > :02:25.put in the hours trying to sell his health reforms.
:02:25. > :02:29.He has met hundreds of patients and health professionals and scrubbed
:02:29. > :02:33.up on countless occasions. But now, some are suggesting he would be
:02:33. > :02:36.better off washing his hands of the whole enterprise. Today, another
:02:36. > :02:41.body of health professionals turned against the reforms.
:02:41. > :02:45.We want the Government to drop the bill, because we think it will lead
:02:45. > :02:50.to increased inequalities in health, we think it will lead to increased
:02:50. > :02:53.bureaucracy, we think services will become less integrated, rather than
:02:53. > :03:00.working together like they really should be, and we think it could
:03:01. > :03:04.lead to waste of public money. Prime Minister's Questions, Labour
:03:04. > :03:08.tried to increase the pressure on Government. He knows in his heart
:03:08. > :03:11.of hearts, this is a complete disaster. That is why his aides are
:03:11. > :03:14.saying the Health Secretary should be taken out and shot, because they
:03:14. > :03:19.know it is a disaster. The reality about the bill is this, the doctors
:03:19. > :03:23.know it is bad for the NHS, the nurses know it is bad for the NHS,
:03:23. > :03:29.and patients know it is bad for the NHS, every day he fights for this
:03:29. > :03:33.bill, every day trust in him on the NHS ebbs away, and every day it
:03:33. > :03:38.books clearer, the -- becomes clearer, the health service is not
:03:38. > :03:43.safe in his hands. I have to tell him the career prospects for our
:03:43. > :03:48.right honourable friend is better than his. The Conservative Party
:03:48. > :03:53.have heard the Prime Minister deliver for ematic support for the
:03:53. > :03:58.bill than that, but Mr Cameron couldn't have been clearer. We are
:03:58. > :04:02.cutting bureaucracy in the NHS, we are taking out �4.5 billion
:04:02. > :04:05.bureaucracy, to be ploughed into patient care. The Health Secretary,
:04:05. > :04:09.Andrew Lansley, has drawn a fair bit of criticism for the way he has
:04:09. > :04:13.handled this bill. According to newspapers, hostile briefings,
:04:13. > :04:20.including that comment, supposedly from a Number Ten insider, that he
:04:20. > :04:24.should, "be taken out and shot". Andrew Lansley started formulating
:04:24. > :04:27.his master plan for NHS reform, six years before he became Health
:04:27. > :04:32.Secretary. Well before anyone was even talking about austerity. But
:04:32. > :04:35.the act is, he's having to enact it at a time when there is pressure on
:04:35. > :04:38.Government spending. And this, according to some
:04:39. > :04:42.strategists, has led to a fatal confusion in the public's mind as
:04:42. > :04:45.to the Government's motives. Are they doing it because they want a
:04:45. > :04:50.better health service, or are they doing this because they want to
:04:50. > :04:55.save money? We have to separate out the reform itself, the reform bill,
:04:55. > :04:59.from what the NHS has been doing, and has been planning to do for
:04:59. > :05:02.some years, when it knew the money would flatten out in real term. It
:05:02. > :05:09.knew there would be a gap, as it were, between the money, and what
:05:09. > :05:13.they wanted the NHS it do, in terms of quality of care and meeting high
:05:13. > :05:17.depemands. That plan has been form -- demands. That plan has been
:05:17. > :05:20.formulated some time ago and the NHS is pursuing it. The tactics
:05:20. > :05:24.used, cut management costs, make savings there, another part of the
:05:24. > :05:28.plan to reduce the prices that hospitals can charge for their
:05:28. > :05:32.goods and services in real terms. That puts a lot of pressure on
:05:32. > :05:35.hospitals to then look at their costs, and can they produce hips
:05:35. > :05:38.more cheaply, and so on. That was going on any way. In a sense,
:05:38. > :05:42.regardless of the bill, regardless of the potential reforms, that
:05:42. > :05:48.would have to go on. David Cameron worked very hard in
:05:48. > :05:52.opposition to try to neutral yois voter suspicion about his party's
:05:52. > :05:56.at -- neutralise voter suspicion about his party's motives.
:05:56. > :06:01.believe the NHS is one of the greatest achievements of the 20th
:06:01. > :06:04.century. But pollsters say this work is now
:06:04. > :06:08.being undone. Traditionally Labour have always been the party of the
:06:08. > :06:11.NHS, in the same way for law and order is the safe ground for the
:06:11. > :06:15.Conservatives. But at the time of the last election that gap between
:06:15. > :06:18.the two parties had closed significantly. However, recent
:06:18. > :06:22.polling we have done seems to suggest that gap is actually
:06:22. > :06:26.widening again, with the Tories not being seen as the party that has
:06:26. > :06:30.the best policies. Today, in the Lords, the Government was defeated
:06:30. > :06:35.on its health proposals once again. Some experts believe, however, that
:06:35. > :06:39.some of this opposition is based on a mistaken view of what the bill is
:06:40. > :06:43.trying to do. It is not about introducing
:06:43. > :06:47.competition, we have already had competition in the NHS of a sort,
:06:47. > :06:50.it has been regulated. We have already had patient choice of a
:06:50. > :06:56.sort, regulateed and constrained in certain ways. The bill is pushing
:06:56. > :06:59.that forward. The opposition, and many of them see this as a brand
:06:59. > :07:03.new thing introducing competition, I don't think it is. In part, some
:07:03. > :07:06.of these amendments, and some of the opposition, are partly based on
:07:06. > :07:16.a false idea about what is going on with the reform bill, and what is
:07:16. > :07:19.
:07:19. > :07:24.going on before within the NHS. We're a senior orthopaedic. Can you
:07:24. > :07:27.come and talk to me. Then as the Prime Minister has found out before,
:07:27. > :07:33.the relationship between health professionals and politicians has
:07:33. > :07:38.never been entirely easy. We will come back. I'm not having it, out.
:07:38. > :07:41.Now a short while ago I spoke to the Health Minister, Simon Burns.
:07:41. > :07:45.How come you have managed to make such a mess of this bill? I don't
:07:46. > :07:50.think we have made a mess of it. How many amendments have you had?
:07:50. > :07:53.We have had 1,000 amendments in the House of Commons, which 750 were
:07:53. > :07:56.technical amendments to change the name to commissioning groups for
:07:56. > :08:01.GPs. If you are talking about how many have we accepted to improve
:08:01. > :08:07.and strengthen the bill in the Commons, it would probably be about
:08:08. > :08:11.100. The bill was wrong on 100 points, before you got these
:08:11. > :08:19.amendments? It was pblt wrong, we went out to consult the NHS furg
:08:19. > :08:24.the future for yum, they came -- during future for yum, they came
:08:24. > :08:28.back with suggestions to strengthen it. We have the BMA, The Royal
:08:28. > :08:35.College of Nurses, The Royal College of Midwives, the Chartered
:08:35. > :08:40.Society of Physiotherapies, the main unions, The Royal College of
:08:40. > :08:44.Child health, The Royal College of Pathologists, The Royal College of
:08:44. > :08:46.Physicians, The Royal College of Psychiatrists, The Royal College of
:08:47. > :08:50.Occupational therapists and the British die at the timeic
:08:50. > :08:54.association, all thinking the bill is wrong. If you look at the number
:08:54. > :08:58.of organisations you have read out, their responses to the White Paper,
:08:58. > :09:03.there were elements of the bill that they approved and supported.
:09:03. > :09:10.The BMA itself, which has come out against it. They said their special
:09:10. > :09:13.emergency meeting last summer, they voted for GP commissioning. Because
:09:13. > :09:16.of the size of the subject and range of subjects being dealt with,
:09:16. > :09:20.there are things they like and don't like. On the other side of
:09:20. > :09:27.that coin, there are a number of organisations, like The Royal
:09:27. > :09:32.College of Gynaecologists, the Family Doctors Association, the
:09:32. > :09:36.National Association of Primary Care. They do support it. What is
:09:36. > :09:39.most important is the people at the forefront of the health service,
:09:39. > :09:42.delivering the service. Like GPs, who are beginning to commission,
:09:42. > :09:46.and who are enthusiastic. I find as I go around and talk to them, they
:09:46. > :09:48.are already working with the PCTs to begin commissioning, they are
:09:49. > :09:51.enthusiastic that they are empowered to look after their
:09:51. > :09:54.patients. Frankly, the most important thing about this
:09:54. > :09:58.legislation, is it is concerned with improving the quality of care
:09:58. > :10:03.for patients, and the results of their treatment. So you say. But
:10:03. > :10:07.The Royal College of Nurse, midwives, aniseists, opt molgists,
:10:07. > :10:11.paediatrics, and the rest of it, are they not some how frontline.
:10:11. > :10:17.Are they not slightly more than a politician? A number of those
:10:17. > :10:21.organisations, like The Royal College of GPs, like the BMJ today,
:10:21. > :10:24.they have formed their opinions on surveys they have carried out,
:10:24. > :10:28.which are self-selecting, they are of a very small minority of their
:10:28. > :10:33.members. You can vote as often as you like in these surveys, to give
:10:33. > :10:36.distorted views, then they have reached a conclusion, which is not
:10:36. > :10:41.representative. And you honestly believe that the �20 billion, which
:10:41. > :10:45.the health service has to save, can be more easily saved by putting the
:10:45. > :10:50.organisation into a state of semi- paralysis, through this bill?
:10:50. > :10:54.evidence of the NHS at the moment does not suggest anything like
:10:55. > :11:00.semi-paralysis. It is rising to the challenges, as it has to, because
:11:00. > :11:04.of the impositions put on it through an increasing ageing
:11:04. > :11:07.population, an increasing drugs bill, which increased by �600
:11:08. > :11:12.million last year alone. It cannot stay still. Even Andy Burnham
:11:12. > :11:17.accepts that it needs to be reformed. He just will not come up
:11:17. > :11:20.with any concrete and relevant ideas of how to modernise it.
:11:20. > :11:26.is Number Ten briefing that your a second should be taken out and
:11:26. > :11:30.shot? Come on, you know they are not. Number Ten...They Are. Number
:11:30. > :11:35.Ten said yesterday in response to the story by Rachel Sylvester, that
:11:35. > :11:39.the Prime Minister fully supported Andrew Lansley. He has to say that?
:11:39. > :11:44.And he fully supports the bill. He's a hopeless communicator?
:11:44. > :11:48.is your opinion. No, that is the accusation from Number Ten? That is
:11:48. > :11:51.an unnamed source in an article. That is how they do it, you know
:11:51. > :11:58.that? I work with Andrew Lansley every day, I see the work he does,
:11:58. > :12:05.I see the way he has a total grasp of the workings and intricacies of
:12:05. > :12:11.the NHS. He has put together a bill that is meeting the challenges of
:12:11. > :12:16.the future of the NHS. We have Liz Kendall, the Labour health
:12:17. > :12:22.spokesperson here, as is Clare Gerada, also here from The Royal
:12:22. > :12:32.College of Practitioners, who opposes the plans.
:12:32. > :12:32.
:12:32. > :12:37.Liz Kendall, you are not going to say there is no need for change?
:12:37. > :12:40.Absolutely not. In the NHS there is a big challenge to do more within
:12:40. > :12:45.constrained budget, while at the same time we face an ageing
:12:45. > :12:54.population. That will be big challenges. You also agree it has
:12:54. > :12:57.to save 20 billion? Absolute. billion? Absolutely. It is wrong to
:12:57. > :13:00.push a massive organisation through a change. You have just said it
:13:01. > :13:04.needs to change? It does, how it needs to change is to deliver more
:13:04. > :13:08.services in the community and at home. To better link up NHS
:13:08. > :13:13.services with social care. That koind of integration is going to be
:13:13. > :13:16.made far -- kind of integration is going to be made far harder by this
:13:16. > :13:20.bill. We oppose the bill, not because we are against reform, but
:13:20. > :13:25.because it won't help us make the reforms we need. Is Wales where the
:13:25. > :13:29.NHS is run by Labour, effectively, is that a model? In Wales they do
:13:29. > :13:31.things in their way. I think the Prime Minister made...Do You think
:13:31. > :13:35.they do it better than under the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats
:13:35. > :13:38.here? I think they do it in a different way. They certainly do.
:13:38. > :13:42.As you know, waiting lists are longer there, aren't they? There
:13:42. > :13:48.was a big dispute about what the Prime Minister said in PMQs today,
:13:48. > :13:52.and many of the figures that he gave on that were inaccurate.
:13:52. > :13:57.is no argument about the fact that Wales, where Labour runs the NHS,
:13:57. > :14:01.has worse outcomes in some respects, notably waiting lists. I want to
:14:01. > :14:04.focus on England. I want to talk about Wales, where is the model, is
:14:04. > :14:09.there a model? There is a model, that is about integrating health
:14:09. > :14:12.and social care, and shifting the focus towards prevention. You may
:14:12. > :14:16.have seen a select committee report out today, which said that actual
:14:16. > :14:19.low the best places where we are bringing together health and social
:14:19. > :14:22.care, are in care trusts. Those care trusts are going to be swept
:14:22. > :14:25.away by the bill. We are against the bill, not because we are
:14:25. > :14:31.against reform, but because we don't think the bill will help us
:14:31. > :14:35.get to the place we need to with the NHS. Let's broaden it out with
:14:35. > :14:39.two GPs. What do you think is wrong with the bill? There is so much,
:14:39. > :14:43.there is such a complex bill. as face it, doctors have opposed
:14:43. > :14:48.change time and time again in the NHS? I don't think we have, doctors
:14:48. > :14:53.or GPs, I will speak for GPs, we have had about ten reorganisations
:14:53. > :14:57.thrown at us, certainly over my clinical lifetime. You ask what's
:14:57. > :15:01.wrong with this bill, this bill will not achof the things that we
:15:01. > :15:05.need it to a-- achieve the things we want it to, with respect to the
:15:05. > :15:09.ageing population and rising costs. It will create more barriers
:15:09. > :15:14.between GPs being able to work with hospital specialists, it will drive
:15:14. > :15:17.up costs and bureaucracy. Why do you believe it is a good thing?
:15:17. > :15:27.need to take politics out of this, for a second. We have tried over
:15:27. > :15:31.years to reform the NHS and under all administration. In most cases
:15:31. > :15:34.we haven't done what we hoped to achieve. That is the past, tell us
:15:34. > :15:38.why you believe in this set of reforms? Because the only way to
:15:38. > :15:43.manage the process is to get the centre of the NHS, the bureaucracy,
:15:43. > :15:46.the big organisation, that is the centre of the NHS, to devolve power
:15:46. > :15:50.to the locality. I want to work in a place where I deal with a patient,
:15:50. > :15:54.a patient who is in front of me, a population in front of me and a
:15:54. > :15:58.population I understand. I believe I can do that better than somebody
:15:58. > :16:01.very far away from that patient. The argument is it involves doctors
:16:01. > :16:05.taking responsibility for decisions? Absolutely, and actually
:16:05. > :16:09.accepting they live within a system. Somebody has to take responsibility.
:16:09. > :16:14.There is nothing wrong with that, we absolutely agree with that.
:16:14. > :16:20.are you opposing it? It is like saying you have an airline pilot,
:16:20. > :16:25.you fly your plane, therefore you should build it. You just want the
:16:25. > :16:29.taxpayer to carry on writing blank cheques? Absolutely not, GPs have
:16:29. > :16:32.been delivering effective care for years, and we need to improve the
:16:32. > :16:36.situation. This bill won't achieve that, it will create more
:16:36. > :16:39.bureaucracy, more cost, it won't achieve what we want to do, which
:16:39. > :16:43.is better joint working. Somebody has to start taking responsibility
:16:43. > :16:49.for decisions within the NHS, don't they. What is wrong with doctors
:16:49. > :16:51.facing up to that? Joos There is nothing, I trained as a carer. Most
:16:51. > :16:55.GPs go into general practice because they want to care for their
:16:55. > :16:59.patients. Of course we want to do it. What we are losing sight of in
:16:59. > :17:02.all of this, is what lights the light for GPs, what will bring
:17:02. > :17:06.about change is reform of the provision. Is improving the way we
:17:06. > :17:11.deliver care to patients, and improving the relationships we have
:17:11. > :17:20.with our hospital colleagues. are shaking your head now.
:17:20. > :17:23.shaking my head and agree with it. We need to manage variation within
:17:23. > :17:26.the service. We must take responsibility for the service we
:17:27. > :17:30.provide. The only way to do that is by working in partnership with
:17:30. > :17:34.managers. This isn't about doctors or managers, it is about both.
:17:34. > :17:38.the accusation about bureaucracy, is a valid one, isn't it, if you
:17:38. > :17:41.lock at this legislation, it appears to have, somewhere, buried
:17:42. > :17:46.-- look at this legislation, it appears to have it, somewhere,
:17:46. > :17:50.buried within it, eight supervisory organisations, it is not one, it is
:17:50. > :17:54.not a devolution? The worry people like me have is around the
:17:54. > :17:56.implementation of the reforms. The worry people like me have is around
:17:56. > :18:00.the power the national commissioning board will have.
:18:00. > :18:03.Unless we actually make health local, we need a local health
:18:03. > :18:08.service, as well as a National Health Service, I think that is
:18:08. > :18:12.something we all agree upon. gave a list of the different royal
:18:12. > :18:17.colleges who now oppose the bill. Let me give the list of new levels
:18:17. > :18:23.of bureaucracy. The national commissioning board, clinical
:18:23. > :18:27.commissioning booths, clinical Senates, commissioning support
:18:27. > :18:31.groups, four regional clusters, I have no idea what all these
:18:31. > :18:35.different organisations are doing. This bill is creating more waste,
:18:35. > :18:40.more bureaucracy, and huge chaos at a time when the NHS faces the
:18:40. > :18:43.biggest financial and clinical challenge of its life. How nasty is
:18:43. > :18:47.this fight getting? We all want to make things better for patients.
:18:47. > :18:52.What we need to do, what the college is saying, let's make it
:18:52. > :18:57.safe, let's stop this bill, let's make it safe. There is a way of
:18:57. > :19:02.making it safe. Merge PCTs, they are already safe put GPs on the
:19:02. > :19:06.majority of the board of those. Then let's have a sensible debate
:19:06. > :19:11.on what the NHS should provide and how we deal with big health and
:19:11. > :19:14.social care issues facing us. That is what we should do. Hurry up and
:19:14. > :19:19.wait again? Which will take years to unpick, the only people to
:19:19. > :19:23.benefit will be the lawyers. I believe we are in a some what
:19:23. > :19:29.different place. Only today we had a really interesting and long, and
:19:29. > :19:33.productive debate around how we are going to manage the provider issues,
:19:33. > :19:37.the issues around co-operation and competition. All the organisations
:19:37. > :19:42.are represented there. In the workings we have between us, we
:19:42. > :19:46.agree about most things. If we take the politics out of this, we all
:19:46. > :19:49.want clinical commissioning to work, we want the local decision making.
:19:49. > :19:56.We should concentrate on the best way to achieve those. Don't you
:19:56. > :20:00.think it would be better if your party adopted a slightly mother
:20:00. > :20:05.constructive stance, Ed Milliband saying there is three months to
:20:05. > :20:08.save the NHS is a stupid comment? Andy Burnham has said. Why he's
:20:08. > :20:12.talking about three months to save the NHS? If the Government drops
:20:12. > :20:16.the bill, we will work with them and the professions to make
:20:16. > :20:19.clinical commissioning work. To give clinicians the control that
:20:19. > :20:23.they want, to drive changes in services, not structures. We have
:20:23. > :20:26.been through lots of structural reorganisation in the NHS, it
:20:26. > :20:31.hasn't delivered the results we need for future. That is the change
:20:31. > :20:35.we need. We will leave it there, we will be revisiting this next week
:20:35. > :20:42.and afterwards. Oh dear! It is good, isn't it, more discussion.
:20:42. > :20:46.Thank you all. The euro is saved, maybe or maybe not, Hallelujah.
:20:46. > :20:50.Nothing concentrates the mind like the prospect of being hanged in the
:20:50. > :20:55.morning, and faced with not getting the loan they need to stay inside
:20:55. > :20:59.the euro, politicians in Athens have apparently signed up to a deal
:20:59. > :21:03.on austerity measures. The 17 lucky countries of the eurozone get
:21:03. > :21:06.together tomorrow to decide if they can trust the geeks to stick to the
:21:06. > :21:11.deal they say they have -- Greeks to stick to the deal they have
:21:11. > :21:18.agreed. The three main parties in Greece
:21:18. > :21:21.have signed up to a draft deal, we know the basics of it. Bloomberg
:21:21. > :21:27.reported them a few hours ago. The Greeks are yet again being asked to
:21:27. > :21:32.sign up to a big austerity package. One they hadn't expected, a 22% cut
:21:32. > :21:36.in the minimum wage. In the next six months a huge number of knock-
:21:36. > :21:41.down sales of state-owned assets, big cuts in public spending and
:21:41. > :21:45.jobs. We think that is the first bit. The next bit is they get to
:21:45. > :21:48.write off about 100 billion euros worth of debt. That is the bit to
:21:48. > :21:52.come. After that we have to find out whether or not that explodes
:21:52. > :21:55.into the debt market. We think it probably won't because of the sheer
:21:55. > :22:00.volume of money the European Central Bank has pumped into the
:22:00. > :22:04.system. But, you know, I think we are a third of the way to an
:22:04. > :22:08.orderly default by Greece. A soft default. About 70% of the value of
:22:08. > :22:14.the loans they are writing off. It then remains, the world system is
:22:14. > :22:17.safe, and we get to that, what what happens to Greece. Many of the
:22:17. > :22:22.commentators, many of the bank notes I'm receiving through on e-
:22:22. > :22:25.mail tonight, is saying it is not very sustainable for the Greeks to
:22:25. > :22:30.do that. Bank notes you are receiving on e-
:22:30. > :22:35.mail are not really bank notes? Notes from bank all lists. If only
:22:35. > :22:40.we were receiving bank notes. Don bank analysts. If only we were
:22:40. > :22:43.receiving bank notes! Where does it leave Greek politics? It is the
:22:43. > :22:48.problem, the three parties who signed up for the draft. Pasok,
:22:48. > :22:55.this is an opinion poll yesterday, Pasok, former Government, it has
:22:55. > :23:00.now slumped to 8%. That is the Socialist Party. New Democracy,
:23:00. > :23:04.Conservative opposition, 31%, riding high. The religious party
:23:04. > :23:07.has 5%. They are the Government, add them up it is still only 44%.
:23:07. > :23:11.If we look at the parties, the other parties outside the
:23:11. > :23:16.Government, here they are. The three far left parties, the
:23:16. > :23:22.communists, the Trotskyists, the Greens and the Democratic Left,
:23:22. > :23:26.they are together, they have fought each other fis clo and don't like
:23:26. > :23:29.each other, that is what -- physically, and they don't like
:23:29. > :23:35.each other, that is where the politics are. Even at the most
:23:35. > :23:41.recent poll at 3% shows the far extreme far right party, Golden
:23:41. > :23:46.Dawn, its logo basically says it all, occasionally claiming that the
:23:46. > :23:51.stiff armed slut is Greek not Nazi in origin, that is why they use it.
:23:51. > :23:55.On 3%, that total getting into parliament when there is an
:23:55. > :24:01.election. We never had Greek opinion polls on this programme?
:24:01. > :24:11.they are exciting. We have been looking at the challenges this deal
:24:11. > :24:11.
:24:11. > :24:17.needs to overcome. 200 years ago, after the fall of
:24:17. > :24:22.Napoleon. Europe's major power, Britain, prugsia and others, had
:24:22. > :24:26.the continent of Europe and keeping it out of war. It succeeded for a
:24:26. > :24:29.few decades. Now, as Greece threatens to economically sink
:24:29. > :24:33.Europe, perhaps the world needs another concert of Europe. Right
:24:33. > :24:38.now few of the actors in the Greek piece, are playing in tune or in
:24:38. > :24:43.time. Who are the key players in this
:24:43. > :24:51.fictional orchestra. The troika of the IMR, the EU and Central Bank
:24:51. > :24:55.are the wind instruments. They have stumped up 100 billion euros for
:24:55. > :25:01.Greece, and have earmarked another 150 billion for loans.
:25:01. > :25:06.The strings are the people who lent Greece money in the good old days
:25:06. > :25:11.before learning the word prudence. Plucking the strings themselves are
:25:11. > :25:16.the Greeks, threatening outside and messy default. It make the mood
:25:16. > :25:20.music not great. The worst case scenario is Greece would not be
:25:20. > :25:26.able to meet its next bond statement on the 25th of March.
:25:26. > :25:30.Uncontrolled bankruptcy of the country. That would have severe
:25:30. > :25:36.reprecussions for the economy, it may claps. The worst case scenario
:25:36. > :25:38.for Europe as a whole, in countries like Portugal, people might see the
:25:38. > :25:42.situation as a precedent and you might have the financial collapse
:25:42. > :25:46.of those countries. In order for Greece to survive as a
:25:46. > :25:52.functioning economy, and possibly even as a democracy, it needs to
:25:52. > :25:56.write off at least a quarter of its 360 billion euro debt mountain, and
:25:56. > :25:59.get a second, even larger bailout from European partners. Those
:25:59. > :26:09.partners have been urging the Greeks to set aside their political
:26:09. > :26:11.
:26:11. > :26:17.differences and do that deal. Watch out for EU granddy, Jacques De
:26:17. > :26:24.Lorres on the left. We are in a historic position with the future
:26:24. > :26:28.of Greece and the euro. We want Greece in the euro. I wo urge the
:26:28. > :26:35.politic -- political leadership in the different parties in Greece for
:26:35. > :26:40.a better future for Greece. Even if they manage to get all
:26:40. > :26:44.players in tune, and Greece gets its second bailout, and a 100
:26:44. > :26:47.billion euro writedown, many will ask if that sets a dangerous
:26:47. > :26:53.precedent. If you allow one country to default within the euro zone,
:26:53. > :26:57.why not others, why not Italy, why not Ireland, why not Portugal.
:26:57. > :27:04.Portugal's cost of borrowing or yield has risen by 150% over the
:27:04. > :27:07.past year. As investors fear that Lisbon may follow Athens into a
:27:07. > :27:12.default spiral. You can understand why European leaders actual low
:27:12. > :27:17.want to draw line around Greece, and say this is quite specific to
:27:17. > :27:20.groz, and no other application -- Greece, and no other application
:27:20. > :27:27.would be justified for any other country. It is a fundamentally
:27:27. > :27:30.incorrect conclusion. I think it is absolutely the case that Portugal,
:27:30. > :27:33.possibly Ireland, would benefit and might demand, actually, some
:27:33. > :27:37.renegotiation of their debt, particularly once the Greeks have
:27:37. > :27:40.been seen to receive favourable treatment, it would be quite
:27:40. > :27:46.natural for a lot of Portuguese politicians or citizens to say,
:27:46. > :27:53.what about us? Do you think, that the immediate
:27:53. > :27:56.risk of messy refault by Greece has waened in recent weeks?
:27:56. > :28:00.activitys of the European Central Bank and washing the European
:28:00. > :28:04.banking system with copious amounts of liquidity, that hasn't ended,
:28:04. > :28:14.there will be another three-year liquidity provision at the end of
:28:14. > :28:18.
:28:18. > :28:20.this month. That has certainly helped. Banks are in a better
:28:20. > :28:26.position than six months ago. Having been out of step with
:28:26. > :28:31.European colleagues for the past two years, politicians are about to
:28:31. > :28:34.put a pen to deal, that could consign their own populus to a
:28:34. > :28:39.decade of austerity, but keeping them within the eurozone.
:28:39. > :28:43.Negotiating that deal, like write be elaborate pieces of music can
:28:43. > :28:46.taken time and effort. What matters most when it comes to performing
:28:47. > :28:51.the piece, is how it goes down with audiences in the long-term.
:28:51. > :28:55.In a few wieks time it will be the 30th -- weeks time it will be the
:28:55. > :29:01.30th anniversary of what was Britain's last imperial war. The
:29:01. > :29:09.fight to retake the Falkland Islands from the military junta
:29:09. > :29:13.ruling Argentina, was put down as a dam close run thing and a feat of
:29:13. > :29:18.arms. The supposed offence lingers on, the latest outrage, according
:29:18. > :29:23.to the President, is that Britain is mill terrorising, as she puts it,
:29:23. > :29:28.this -- militarising, as she puts it, this penguin's paradise. It may
:29:28. > :29:33.be smaller than Yorkshire, 8,000 miles away, with fewer intab hants
:29:33. > :29:36.tan Chipping Norton, but the Falkland islanders claim to be
:29:36. > :29:42.British. It is almost 30 years since British servicemen gave their
:29:42. > :29:47.lives in a short, risky war, after invasion by Argentina. It re-
:29:47. > :29:55.established British sovereignity, and imposed a responsibility for
:29:55. > :30:01.their protection. The brand new billion pound destroyer Argentina
:30:01. > :30:05.fakes offence there, will be on station there. But the Malvenos,
:30:05. > :30:09.remain an easy drum to bang for any Argentine politician.
:30:09. > :30:14.The claim that these wind swept rocks are naturally Latin American,
:30:14. > :30:20.has never gone away. The Argentine President, Cristina Fernandez de
:30:20. > :30:24.Kirchner, now promises to take her claim to the U makes its. What the
:30:24. > :30:30.deColin -- United Nations, what the decolonisation committee will make
:30:30. > :30:35.of it is anybody's guests. What constitutes self-determination.
:30:35. > :30:39.With me is an Argentine journalist and an elected member of the
:30:39. > :30:46.Falkland Islands Government. Hasn't your Government anything better to
:30:46. > :30:51.worry about? I think Christina Fernandez has been drumming about
:30:51. > :30:57.the Maldenas force many years, she didn't pick -- for many years now,
:30:57. > :31:00.she didn't pick it out of the blue, but for the first time Great
:31:00. > :31:05.Britain responded. What was the response? Sending Prince William. I
:31:05. > :31:09.believe it is a political statement. What do you mean, he's an RAF
:31:09. > :31:14.pilot? Nobody discusses that. He could have trained anywhere else,
:31:14. > :31:18.the decision to send him there is a symbolic gesture. What really has
:31:18. > :31:22.got her going is the fact that Prince William is serving on a
:31:22. > :31:27.search and rescue station in the Falkland Islands? I don't think
:31:27. > :31:33.that got her going. She has been going for over 15 years. Where the
:31:33. > :31:39.-- where is the stuff about militarising the nation with the
:31:39. > :31:44.deployment? It is on the basis of the deployment of the destroyer.
:31:44. > :31:49.is replacing a friget there previously? What is the point of
:31:49. > :31:53.sending one of the most modern destroyers in the British fleet.
:31:53. > :31:57.happens to be the latest one and it is just replacing? What about the
:31:57. > :32:01.rumour of the nuclear submarine. Did you know there is a nuclear
:32:02. > :32:06.submarine down there? I'm asking, that is what has got Latin America
:32:06. > :32:09.going. How much longer will you people, 3,000 of you, smaller than
:32:09. > :32:13.Chipping Norton, how much longer are you going to expect the British
:32:13. > :32:17.Government to look after you? we expect are from the British
:32:17. > :32:23.Government is support for our right to self-determination, and also the
:32:23. > :32:28.provision of a deterrent force in the Falklands, which is only
:32:28. > :32:33.necessary because we were invaded in 1992 by Argentina. What
:32:33. > :32:37.proportion of the Falkland islands population want to go to Argentina.
:32:37. > :32:43.Don't you believe in self- determination? I do, I believe the
:32:43. > :32:48.people of the Falkland Islands, I would call them the Malvenas, they
:32:48. > :32:52.are British citizens and can't be party and judge in the same trial.
:32:52. > :32:59.You can't claim self-determination while already full British citizens.
:32:59. > :33:04.How far are the Falklands from Argentina? 298 miles. That is the
:33:04. > :33:08.same distance as Luxembourg from Britain, should we claim that? No
:33:08. > :33:13.but the Welsh wouldn't like Patagonia. But there is a larger
:33:13. > :33:17.British population residing in Argentina than the Falkland Islands,
:33:17. > :33:20.that doesn't mean Argentine territory becomes Great Britain.
:33:20. > :33:28.That is an interesting argument? are 8,000 miles away from the UK,
:33:28. > :33:34.that is correct, many of the overseas properties are a long way
:33:34. > :33:38.away, such as the Caribbean OTs. The argument talked about is a weak
:33:39. > :33:41.one, if you want to go back in history, go back to millions of
:33:41. > :33:49.years ago when we were part of South Africa. Does that mean South
:33:49. > :33:55.Africa has a claim on us, how ridiculous can this argument get.
:33:55. > :34:00.In 1833 when the islands were held by Argentina, Britain invaded.
:34:00. > :34:05.There was an outpost of Argentines who rebelled and murdered the
:34:05. > :34:09.British governor on the islands. Am I wrong? It wasn't that this was an
:34:09. > :34:15.occupied territory. It dates from 1833. You could just as easily go
:34:15. > :34:19.back to the prove century when the French were there? In the previous
:34:19. > :34:23.century Argentina was not an independent country. In 1833 it was.
:34:23. > :34:29.It has claimed sovereignity ever since. It has never given up its
:34:29. > :34:32.claim. Actually it is already in the United Nations decolonisation
:34:32. > :34:35.committee. It is not Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner is bringing
:34:35. > :34:39.it up, it is one of the 16 cases that the decolonisation committee
:34:40. > :34:43.has to consider. We could trade historical insults
:34:43. > :34:47.all evening. If we really want to go down that route, I could also
:34:47. > :34:51.say to you, I could talk about the "ethnic cleansing" that went on in
:34:51. > :34:54.Argentina, and should it belong to the Indian tribes that used to live
:34:55. > :34:57.there. There is something absurd, isn't there, there is a billion
:34:57. > :35:03.pound destroyer down there, protecting these islands, that most
:35:03. > :35:07.people in Britain couldn't find anywhere on a map. They could give
:35:07. > :35:11.every member, what is 3,000 into a billion. You guys could all be
:35:11. > :35:16.extreme low wealthy just on the proceeds of the cost of that single
:35:16. > :35:20.destroyer down there? I don't think that is a point, we have an elected
:35:20. > :35:25.Government, we have eight elected members, we make our own laws, set
:35:25. > :35:30.our own buckets, raise our own taxation, we are entirely self-
:35:30. > :35:34.sufficient and self-governing. Apart from two areas, only one,
:35:34. > :35:39.defence, is necessary because we were invaded by Argentina. If they
:35:39. > :35:42.were to drop the sovereignity claim we would have no need to talk about
:35:42. > :35:47.militarisation of the south Atlantic. In a moment we will have
:35:47. > :35:53.a look at the front pages and discuss the story dominating them.
:35:53. > :35:57.Fabio Capello's resignation as England manager. Oneest mo of the
:35:57. > :36:01.most enduring figures of modern art was in London today.
:36:02. > :36:06.For the last more than 30 years, Yayoi Kusama has lived voluntarily
:36:06. > :36:10.in a psychiatric institution. Her work is obsessive, and often
:36:10. > :36:14.overwhelming, since she's now well over 80, there is an awful lot of
:36:14. > :36:24.it too. We have been to see a sample, there is flashing lights
:36:24. > :36:30.
:36:30. > :36:36.Extraordinary is a much abused word in the world of contemporary art, I
:36:36. > :36:39.think we might dust it off for Yayoi Kusama. An octogenarian in a
:36:39. > :36:47.wheelchair, who has some how conquered both the art scene and
:36:47. > :36:52.fashion world from her base in a Japanese psychiatric hospital.
:36:52. > :36:57.Newsnight met the doyenne of the polka dot, before her big new show
:36:57. > :37:05.at Tate Modern in London. What is your interest in polka dots, why do
:37:05. > :37:09.they pop up so often in your art? Please ask that to my hand, I have
:37:09. > :37:14.drawn lots of dots since I was a child, and covered my fashion and
:37:14. > :37:20.notebooks with dots. Dots are a symbol of the word "the Cosmos",
:37:20. > :37:30.the earth is a dot. The moon, the sun, the stars are all made up of
:37:30. > :37:31.
:37:31. > :37:36.dots. You and me, we are dots. Her work is highly colourful,
:37:36. > :37:40.playful. But she herself is a sober and serious presence, especially
:37:40. > :37:46.for someone in a throbbing red outfit and matching wig. Show says
:37:46. > :37:54.she remains committed to her long standing campaigning for peace.
:37:54. > :38:00.What ideas are you exploring here? These are my own works about my
:38:00. > :38:05.life, the deep emotion of being born human and the barriers of
:38:05. > :38:15.movement over space as we know them. We can find out all sorts of things
:38:15. > :38:22.
:38:22. > :38:26.I wonder how you feel about this big retrospective here at state
:38:26. > :38:30.modern? TRANSLATION: This is art that shines out from the bottom of
:38:30. > :38:40.my heart, human love, and I really wanted to display it in this
:38:40. > :38:44.
:38:44. > :38:54.Kusama collaberated with musician Peter Gabriel, on this video.
:38:54. > :38:55.
:38:55. > :39:00.What did he see in her work? really original point of view,
:39:00. > :39:10.passionate intensity, that was on the one hand, very child like, and
:39:10. > :39:11.
:39:11. > :39:16.on another, very smart, adult and quite disturbing. We had a few days
:39:16. > :39:20.recreating some of her work, her boat full of Phalluses. Did one of
:39:21. > :39:26.your peters say, Peter, we have to spend more money, we will have to
:39:26. > :39:32.go down there and see how it is? is hard to locate the boat load of
:39:32. > :39:38.willies, so we definitely had to do it yourself!
:39:38. > :39:46.I'm glad you brought those up, the male member is to Kusama, what the
:39:47. > :39:50.tree trunk is to late Korea Hockney, dare we ask, what is that about?
:39:50. > :39:57.TRANSLATION: I was very afraid of fall sis, I haven't had sex. As a
:39:57. > :40:03.child I suffered a lot because my father led a very debauched
:40:03. > :40:13.lifestyle, and I came to hate sex. As a kind of art therapy, I created
:40:13. > :40:13.
:40:13. > :40:17.lots of sex, filled a room with them, and I lost my fear.
:40:17. > :40:21.psychiatric hospital where Kusama lives, became a refuge of her own
:40:21. > :40:26.choosing, after a bout of illness a few years ago.
:40:26. > :40:30.TRANSLATION: For three or four days I didn't eat, I just painted and
:40:30. > :40:40.collapsed. Then I went to psychiatric hospital, the doctors
:40:40. > :40:40.
:40:40. > :40:44.said that I had to be admitted. critics are sympathetic to Kusama's
:40:44. > :40:48.might, of course, that doesn't mean they all love her art? It is fun,
:40:48. > :40:56.like a fizzy drink, with all the spots, they are like bubbles, it
:40:56. > :40:59.has this endless fizz, it is every vestant, we are told it is driven
:40:59. > :41:04.by deep pain and psychological illness, that doesn't come through
:41:05. > :41:12.in the art, for me. I don't find it some kind of disturbing hypnotic
:41:12. > :41:17.ecstacy in this art. I find it a fizzy, pop cultural style. The show
:41:17. > :41:27.is fun, I have been looking forward to this place, the obliteration
:41:27. > :41:27.
:41:27. > :41:31.room, they call it, it is not the bar, by the way. This or we willian
:41:31. > :41:35.sounding obliteration room is quiet at the moment. The idea is visitors
:41:35. > :41:45.can come and completely cover the surfaces with brightly covered
:41:45. > :41:50.
:41:50. > :41:54.polka dots. Frpbgt I have to pack in the BBC coffee.
:41:55. > :42:04.Kusama also writes, makes films and sings. This is a lament for her
:42:05. > :42:06.
:42:06. > :42:10.late parents. Draf vow! -- bravo, thank you very much, it is very
:42:10. > :42:13.nice to meet you. You would hardly have failed to notice that the
:42:13. > :42:18.England manager, Fabio Capello, resigned a few hours ago in protest
:42:18. > :42:21.at the FA's decision to strip John Terry of the England captaincy. It
:42:21. > :42:28.has left the national game in the usual state of complete chaos. With
:42:28. > :42:33.us now is the BBC sports editor, David Bond, and the journalist from
:42:33. > :42:40.The Times and the head of the footballers association.
:42:40. > :42:44.The papers are covered in the story, Capello's resignation and Harry
:42:44. > :42:48.Redknapp's acquittal on the tax charges. What is it all about?
:42:48. > :42:52.is embarrassing for an institution to have lost a manager and to have
:42:52. > :42:57.no captain. It is not catastrophic, we tend to exaggerate the
:42:57. > :43:02.importance of managers. We imbue them with almost mythical powers,
:43:03. > :43:08.and and we blame them when teams lose and usual guise them when the
:43:08. > :43:12.teams win. International managers don't decide the players' diets or
:43:12. > :43:15.decide the transfer market. This could be good. A lot of fuss about
:43:15. > :43:21.nothing? There is valid points there, but the manager is very much
:43:21. > :43:25.the focal point of this unit. When you have a team, this team needs a
:43:25. > :43:34.leader, that leader has to be strong and has to make sure he has
:43:34. > :43:37.the respect of all these under ings and he can drag them in the right
:43:37. > :43:41.direction. We were told Goran- Eriksson and Capello had the
:43:41. > :43:47.respect of the players, we were told every single manager for the
:43:47. > :43:51.last 30 years. The expectations are very high but it doesn't co-relate
:43:51. > :43:58.with the result. He got �6 million a year, he must have been doing
:43:58. > :44:02.something? In football that is no measure. We have seen plenty of top
:44:02. > :44:06.managers paid a lot of money and fail. You go to extremes, the
:44:06. > :44:11.highly-paid coach to the guru, then an English manager, that is the
:44:11. > :44:15.only way the players will truly respond. The danger is you keep
:44:15. > :44:19.swinging from those positions and you end up with this sort of
:44:19. > :44:24.shambles, no captain and manager. This bloke didn't learn English?
:44:24. > :44:29.That is definite low an issue, how he has communicated with the
:44:29. > :44:33.players. This has all come about, for once the FA has shown strong
:44:33. > :44:38.leadership on the John Terry issue. It has only come to past, because
:44:38. > :44:42.David Bernstein, the FA chairman, decided to make a stand, that John
:44:42. > :44:48.Terry shouldn't remain captain while still facing the racist
:44:48. > :44:55.allegations. Is race still an issue in society? Of course, it is still
:44:55. > :45:01.an issue in society. It is niave to think it is gone away. There are
:45:01. > :45:06.huge strides from the 1970s and 1980s where racist was endemic in
:45:06. > :45:09.societies. For us to believe it is gone away, not just recent
:45:09. > :45:13.incidents but thoughts shown in society shows it hasn't. We need to
:45:13. > :45:19.make sure we step on those campaigns to make sure the pockets
:45:19. > :45:25.become smaller and smaller: agree with the racial point?
:45:25. > :45:29.context is important, it was endemic in the 1970s, banana skins
:45:29. > :45:33.were thrown on the pitch. It was vital, and Sepp Blatter making
:45:33. > :45:38.comments about race in football. It was important for the FA to take a
:45:38. > :45:42.stand. I find it exordry that Capello, a bright and --
:45:42. > :45:46.extraordinary that Capello, a bright and cultured man, is going
:45:46. > :45:51.on this issue, someone not proved but with allegations against him.
:45:51. > :45:56.It is not about the allegations on John Terry, it is him taking the
:45:56. > :45:59.decisions. The end result is we haven't got a captain or manager?
:45:59. > :46:09.The mistake they made, was not consulting Capello, they didn't
:46:09. > :46:12.need to back down once he apressed his disagreement. They are as --
:46:12. > :46:17.They are as incompetent as it is said? Having promised to learn
:46:17. > :46:21.English when he got the job he hasn't, apparently he doesn't like
:46:21. > :46:26.using the telephone, this is the astonishing thing, a general
:46:26. > :46:32.manager was brought in on an astro nominal salary to be the conduit
:46:32. > :46:37.between Capello and the players and the board. He disappeared to a job
:46:37. > :46:42.in Roma, and Capello was not in the loop. Today we have learned he
:46:42. > :46:45.doesn't use the telephone, but Harry Redknapp doesn't use a
:46:45. > :46:49.computer or ever send an e-mail or text. Where do they find these
:46:50. > :46:57.people? It is an indictment isn't it. The next manager, will, for a
:46:57. > :47:02.period, will be a panacea, not for the national team but the national
:47:02. > :47:07.game. It is about the next major competition and losing on penalties
:47:07. > :47:10.and another disaster. What an extraordinary day, the possibility
:47:10. > :47:15.of two things happening, Harry Redknapp cleared on the footsteps
:47:15. > :47:21.of the Crown Court, and within a few hours Fabio Capello resigns.
:47:21. > :47:25.I'm sure many will have seen the stuff coming out. Is it the red
:47:25. > :47:32.card for the management? Absolutely, in the short-term they will need
:47:32. > :47:38.someone to take over. I tweeted about the two issues taking place.