:00:15. > :00:20.Eurozone can bail out Greece, but will it. There are doubts whether a
:00:20. > :00:24.second bail out will go ahead. Some in Europe think it is time to cut
:00:24. > :00:27.Greece loose, and a default wouldn't be devastating, just
:00:28. > :00:31.merely irritating. It is becoming clear Europe's leaders don't want
:00:31. > :00:38.to hand 130 billion to politicians who look incapable of delivering
:00:38. > :00:42.what they just signed up to. And, behind the veneer of a modern state
:00:42. > :00:47.the more risk procedure that blights the lives of women. Mothers
:00:47. > :00:52.come knocking on my door, asking me to circumcise their daughters, I
:00:52. > :00:57.don't need to come looking for them. Britain has been boozey, but can
:00:57. > :01:03.anything be done what the Prime Minister calls "the scandal of our
:01:03. > :01:13.society". Drunkenness. The dilemma of politicians is how can they hit
:01:13. > :01:15.
:01:15. > :01:18.the big time bingeers, rather than Good evening the Governor of the
:01:18. > :01:21.Bank of England, Mervyn King confirmed today in his judgment the
:01:21. > :01:27.biggest risk to the British economy is the failure to solve the
:01:27. > :01:32.eurozone crisis. Publicly all the major players, so-called troika,
:01:32. > :01:36.yuefpb Central Bank, International Monetary Fund and European
:01:36. > :01:41.Commission, agrees Greece needs a bail out. But behind the scenes
:01:41. > :01:46.there are cracks, the German Finance Minister, referred to it as
:01:46. > :01:51.a bottomless pit. The paperwork was not in order, and the Greece
:01:51. > :01:54.President clearly angry said he could not accept insults to his
:01:54. > :01:59.country from Germany, Finland or Netherlands.
:01:59. > :02:05.We report on the mess that no-one seems to clear up. Europe is
:02:05. > :02:11.experiencing one of the most cold naps in decades, minus 30 degrees.
:02:11. > :02:16.Europe is cold in the winter, is not unusual, that it is freezing in
:02:16. > :02:22.the Mediterranean is irregular. That chill from north to south
:02:22. > :02:26.seems to be replekaited in this eurozone crisis W Germany and
:02:26. > :02:29.others, hint that Greece's days in the single currency are numbered.
:02:29. > :02:33.The getting the hint in and theen, where the Finance Minister,
:02:33. > :02:38.Evangelos Venizelos, told his countrymen today there were self-
:02:38. > :02:42.eurozone nations who no longer wanted Greece as a member.
:02:42. > :02:47.TRANSLATION: There are visible powers internally in Europe that
:02:47. > :02:51.are playing with fire. Because they believe the October 26th European
:02:51. > :02:56.council agreement might not be itchmented and the specifications
:02:56. > :02:59.will not be kept to. And whoings possibly may want Greece out of the
:02:59. > :03:04.eurozone? It is not just northern politicians
:03:04. > :03:09.actively considering a Greek exit. Even German royalty, Chief
:03:09. > :03:16.Executive of Bosch, seen here drinking with Angela Merkel
:03:16. > :03:22.demanded that Greece not only leave the Euro, but EU. The business is
:03:22. > :03:26.more and more very, if not hostile, toward Greece, because they realise
:03:26. > :03:30.this will be very, very difficult, financiallyings economically, and
:03:30. > :03:35.they're more and more people on the business side who are not too sure
:03:36. > :03:40.this will last, this will be possible to go on. Two years ago
:03:40. > :03:45.when the Greek crisis first erupted the mood in Germany was one of
:03:45. > :03:50.solidarity with the cousins, but two bail out and multiple promises
:03:50. > :03:53.broken later, the mood has changed, somewhat. That means German
:03:53. > :03:59.politicians buoyed with popular support back home can play hard
:03:59. > :04:03.ball with Athens. The hard ball that could push Greece over the
:04:03. > :04:07.edge. Today, MEPs, in the Tory dominated European Conservatives
:04:07. > :04:13.and reformists group, urged the EU to get on with booting the Greeks
:04:13. > :04:19.out of the eurozone. It is no surprise that Germans are
:04:19. > :04:24.unhappy about keeping Greece in the Euro, because getting to boilout
:04:24. > :04:29.more governments that are prorlisk gate than Greece. In fact the main
:04:29. > :04:33.beneficiaries, will be the Greek people who can end the misery of
:04:33. > :04:37.permanent depopulation and post-and begin to claw their way back to
:04:37. > :04:41.export-led recovery. So, Greece leaving the Euro, as well as being
:04:41. > :04:46.a great relief to the people who otherwise would have to bail them
:04:46. > :04:50.out is huge benefit to Greek people themselves who can devalue, price
:04:50. > :04:57.their way in the market and grow again. If he and many others get
:04:57. > :05:03.their way, how exactly would a Greek exit or Grexit work? Before
:05:03. > :05:07.it quits, it would impose capital controls so all savings in current
:05:07. > :05:12.accounts would be effectively locked in Greek banks, which
:05:12. > :05:18.themselves would have to be fully nationalised. Then the parallel or
:05:18. > :05:23.electronic new currency would have to be created to create debts in a
:05:23. > :05:27.new drachma, which would replace euros,. The ECB and Germany would
:05:27. > :05:34.have to give more than a gold carriage clock to Greece as leaving
:05:34. > :05:38.present. To prevent contagion, Berlin and Frankfurt would have to
:05:38. > :05:42.introduce Euro bonds to help the rest of the single currency for
:05:42. > :05:46.implosion. But is this dangerous? don't think anybody should hide.
:05:46. > :05:50.This has been going on for a while. There are contingency plans
:05:50. > :05:53.prepared all over the world, not just in Europe. The Greek people
:05:53. > :05:57.are watching closely and they are scared, because possible default,
:05:57. > :06:03.exit of the single currency, exit of the European currency, would be
:06:03. > :06:07.catastrophic for Greece, and would send the signal of the process of
:06:07. > :06:13.integration, it is important we keep the Euro intact and do it
:06:13. > :06:18.necessary to make it successful within the first few years in
:06:18. > :06:22.existence. As diplomats at the Greek Embassy in London no doubt
:06:22. > :06:26.know, there are two ways for an economy to restore its
:06:26. > :06:29.competitiveness, after an economic shock. You can have an internal
:06:29. > :06:34.devaluation, where you clamp down on wages and deflate the economy,
:06:34. > :06:38.or you can have an external devaluation, where the currency is
:06:38. > :06:42.allowed to float downwards. That is out for Greece, because it is a
:06:42. > :06:46.member of the eurozone, which means it is putting all the eggs in the
:06:46. > :06:53.internal devaluation basket. The problem is the alternative to that
:06:53. > :06:57.is an outright default. With or without a messing default Greece
:06:57. > :07:01.will be rack with the a lot more of this street anger, because the
:07:01. > :07:07.leader of the largest opposition party, and probably the next Prime
:07:07. > :07:10.Minister, signed a letter to honour the austerity pledges, if the
:07:10. > :07:13.April's elections goes ahead. There's little doubt now Greece
:07:13. > :07:20.stands on a precipice with the European partners, relations have
:07:20. > :07:25.never been as frosty. And anti- German sentiment is ram pont and so
:07:25. > :07:29.too is Greece could be a few months away from being frozen out of the
:07:29. > :07:34.Euro entirely. Joe Lynam reporting, our economics editor arrived back
:07:34. > :07:41.from Athens, what is the EU trying to do The EU is always known as
:07:41. > :07:50.soon as you give 130 billion euros to the Greek Government and write
:07:50. > :07:54.of 100 billion of debt, the reflection shows to people to get
:07:54. > :07:56.closure. So what they've always up to now done is design the bail out
:07:56. > :08:00.in a way there's strong surveillance, so you can keep doing
:08:00. > :08:03.what you're supposed to do. This is based on the idea it would be a
:08:03. > :08:07.stable coalition Government. Or a stable single party Government
:08:07. > :08:12.after an election, once you realise that's not going to happen, things
:08:12. > :08:15.get wobblely. And what is clear, from document leaked to the
:08:15. > :08:19.Financial Times overnight was that the at some point in the last day,
:08:19. > :08:24.they started to think, maybe what we do is give them a bit of money,
:08:24. > :08:31.bit of the bail out, and then make them have an election, a Government
:08:31. > :08:34.that signs up to doing it, and keep the money here, ready to as it
:08:34. > :08:40.where give it like the right thing and hold. A bail out could be
:08:40. > :08:43.designed to save the banks, to save Europe, but almost to say take or
:08:43. > :08:48.leave saving Greece. We've seen the trouble in the streets. But what
:08:48. > :08:53.are they worried about in terms of Greek politics in the month or two
:08:53. > :08:58.ahead? They're worried the two main party are fragmented, the PASOK was
:08:58. > :09:03.down to 8%, it was a Government six months ago. A New Democracy lost
:09:03. > :09:07.some MPs and its plans are about, maybe they want innovative,
:09:07. > :09:11.Conservative idea, plait tax or want to do more massively more
:09:11. > :09:15.privatisation than planned, 50 billion. When you listens to them,
:09:15. > :09:20.and think are they able to do it, and are they able to form a
:09:20. > :09:25.majority, and the answer is pretty clearly no. You have two choices,
:09:25. > :09:30.once the elections start, these party, big traditional party, who
:09:30. > :09:33.will be pulled toward their base, it will be hard for them to form a
:09:33. > :09:39.coherent Government, and the European Union thought if they
:09:39. > :09:44.can't form a coherent Government to negotiate after the election, they
:09:44. > :09:48.said they net a technocratic Government, the Prime Minister has
:09:48. > :09:51.been accused of a Goldman Sachs, the present politicians would not
:09:51. > :09:55.get an interview with the Goldman Sachs and that's what the European
:09:55. > :10:03.Union is worried, the competence issue. That's the background, I'm
:10:03. > :10:08.joined by the Conservative MEP, and leader in the European Parliament,
:10:08. > :10:11.Martin Callahan, Ralph Brinkhaus who sits on the finance committee,
:10:12. > :10:15.and Athens, by the Greek Prime Minister's adviser, George
:10:15. > :10:19.Pagoulatos. George Pagoulatos, listening to all that, do you fear
:10:19. > :10:25.that the mood is absolutely changing, and that some people want
:10:25. > :10:30.to edge Greece out of the eurozone? Well, I can understand that the
:10:31. > :10:34.mood may be changing, in some circles, but let's not forget
:10:34. > :10:38.Greece is undergoing the most painful adjustment programme that
:10:39. > :10:43.has been applied in the eurozone. It is a programme that is causing a
:10:43. > :10:49.lot of pain in Greek society, but it is delivering results. The
:10:49. > :10:55.primary budget deficit has been cut down by 18 billion. This is down,
:10:55. > :10:58.reduction by 19 billion, reduction of nearly, above 8% of GDP.
:10:58. > :11:03.Competitiveness is catching up. Many of the adjustment target are
:11:03. > :11:07.being met. And a few days ago, an extremely painful reform,
:11:07. > :11:11.adjustment reform programme was passed from the Parliament, with
:11:11. > :11:15.two-thirds majority, as a solid majority in Greek society, backing
:11:15. > :11:20.the country's commitment to the Euro. That's what it is all about.
:11:20. > :11:25.Well, Ralph Brinkhaus, do you believe, as the German Finance
:11:25. > :11:29.Minister, suggested that Greece still, despite all that, is a
:11:29. > :11:35.bottomless pit. Because many of your German colleagues seem to do
:11:35. > :11:40.so? Yes, that's right. But it depends on the people in Greece, if
:11:40. > :11:46.it is a pit or not. Because, the Greek people, and the Greek
:11:46. > :11:51.politicians have to help us now. They have to help us, to build up
:11:51. > :11:58.credibility, because we need this credibility to argue with our
:11:58. > :12:03.people in Germany, that we can spend or better we can invest money
:12:03. > :12:09.in Greece. Do you sense, Ralph Brinkhaus the mood has changed in
:12:09. > :12:13.Germany? The rhetoric has changed the opinion poll, suggesting that
:12:13. > :12:19.many Germans feel the Euro would stpaif if Greece would be pushed
:12:19. > :12:24.out? That's a good question. If the mood has changed so far. I think we
:12:24. > :12:30.are now, at the brink, in a discussion, and there is a certain
:12:30. > :12:35.line, and we should not pass this line. We will pass this line, if we
:12:35. > :12:38.continue in negotiating with Greek Government, until the very end of
:12:38. > :12:46.the night, until the very end of the day, and in the last minute,
:12:46. > :12:50.getting a solution. This is not good, because politicians and also
:12:50. > :12:55.markets do not like surprises, so what we need is credibility. We
:12:55. > :12:59.have to build up this credibility, and if not, we would certainly pass
:12:59. > :13:02.this line. Yes. Well Mr Callahan from where
:13:02. > :13:06.you sit, the mood is clearly changing a bit in Germany. Do you
:13:06. > :13:11.think it changing in other places too, Finland, the Netherlands, in
:13:11. > :13:15.other words some of the northern European countries getting rather
:13:16. > :13:18.fed up? I think the evidence is they're getting very fed up with it.
:13:18. > :13:23.They're imposing conditions after conditions on Greece, and when we
:13:23. > :13:26.meet or say they're going to meet the latest conditions, the new ones
:13:26. > :13:30.are dreamed up. And it is obvious the finance ministers, or some of
:13:30. > :13:35.them have an agenda, now they've put the fire walls in place, that
:13:35. > :13:40.Greece is only 2% of the eurozone, they could actually ask Greece to
:13:40. > :13:43.leave. Actually it is now becoming increasingly obvious, this is in
:13:43. > :13:50.Greece's interest as well. They're going to be faced with years, and
:13:50. > :13:54.years, not just a few months, of grinding austerity to itchment 30%
:13:54. > :13:58.of devaluation in cut in wages and welfare benefit and pensions, and
:13:59. > :14:03.after all of that, by 2020, if they meet all the targets and they
:14:03. > :14:07.haven't met any target yet, they would be back to approximately that
:14:07. > :14:12.Italy is now. It is unsustainable in the long-term. It is
:14:12. > :14:14.destabilising the whole of Europe, we need to get on and ask them to
:14:14. > :14:21.leave. George Pagoulatos, we need to get
:14:21. > :14:27.on and ask them to leave, you are 2% of GDP, it is looking grim isn't
:14:27. > :14:32.it is this I'm not sure that being fed up is a good guide for sound
:14:32. > :14:38.policy decisions. Ask for credibility, Greece's Government
:14:38. > :14:42.now led by Christos Papoutsis, Governor exECB vice-chairman, he
:14:42. > :14:46.has never been with Goldman Sachs by the way, he has always been a
:14:46. > :14:50.civil servant. This is a Government backed by the two main party. It is
:14:50. > :14:55.behind, solidly behind it is a majority of Greek society, which
:14:55. > :14:58.stands for a Greece's commitment to the Euro, and is ready to take
:14:59. > :15:03.whatever is necessary in order to consolidate our position. Why,
:15:03. > :15:08.sorry to interrupt. May I ask you, why was your President so
:15:08. > :15:14.irritateed today by what he saw as an insult from Germany. Was it the
:15:14. > :15:19.bottomless pit remark, what is it that got at him? Well I think,
:15:19. > :15:23.European countries and European political leaders, should bemay
:15:23. > :15:27.have with a degree of solidarity and respect with each other that
:15:27. > :15:32.comes with being members of the European Union. Let me say that...
:15:32. > :15:38.Are you not getting that respect? This is a specific programme. I
:15:38. > :15:42.think, it is beside the main point, the main point we are following an
:15:42. > :15:46.adjustment programme, and the main thing that is driving this painful
:15:46. > :15:51.adjustment programme is the understanding that any alternative
:15:51. > :15:54.would be far more disastrous. It is broadly understood in Greek society,
:15:54. > :15:59.including... Disasters for Greece. With the
:15:59. > :16:05.exception of the Communist Party:. Perhaps not disastrous for the
:16:05. > :16:10.eurozone. Let me come to that. It has been
:16:10. > :16:15.said it is less disastrous today than it was a year ago. I can abide
:16:15. > :16:19.by that. But it is still extremely destabilising for any member state
:16:19. > :16:23.to depart the eurozone. That would be the beginning of the unravelling
:16:23. > :16:29.of the eurozone. It would be the beginning of a slippery slope. It
:16:29. > :16:33.would create a panic of the depositers of the banking system.
:16:33. > :16:37.Speculatetors and market would speculate who would be next, it
:16:37. > :16:42.would create enormous instability and that is why the same decision
:16:42. > :16:47.made by the European council has been to keep the per I have rif
:16:47. > :16:53.within the eurozone at any cost, because any cost would be any cost
:16:53. > :16:56.if any country would be wanting to exit. Ralph Brinkhaus that is the
:16:56. > :17:02.view of the Olli Rehn, The Commissioner. It would be
:17:02. > :17:08.disastrous for the eurozone if Greece left do you agree? Partly.
:17:08. > :17:10.Let me say that we have to take care for Greece anyway, within the
:17:11. > :17:14.eurozone, within the European Union or outside the European Union. So
:17:14. > :17:20.we have to pay the bill, and at the very end of the day, Germany that
:17:20. > :17:25.is to pay the highest amount of this bill. So, we have to seven for
:17:25. > :17:31.a good solution. And we are not sure whether it is better solution,
:17:31. > :17:35.to get an uncontrolled default, and taking care to take care of Greece
:17:35. > :17:40.of wards or organise it in a way that everybody can stand. It is
:17:40. > :17:48.true the banking system is better prepared for default of Greece than
:17:48. > :17:51.it was 12 months ago. I guess, even the governments are better prepared
:17:51. > :17:55.for this. Sorry to interrupt, you said something interesting there.
:17:55. > :17:59.Are you saying it would be possible, for Greece to leave the eurozone,
:17:59. > :18:05.but Germany and other countries would still make arrangements to
:18:05. > :18:10.look after Greece, so that is a possibility? It would not be the
:18:11. > :18:17.better way. Because, I guess it will be a much harder for the
:18:18. > :18:24.people in Greece take thg way. But, it could be a way, if they leave.
:18:24. > :18:28.This is very important because there are some rumours, these days,
:18:28. > :18:32.Germany never would demand from the Greek people to get out. Germany is
:18:32. > :18:37.not in the position to demand it, and we will nef do it. So, it is
:18:37. > :18:42.their own decision. Let me bring in Mr Callahan. We understand, that
:18:42. > :18:47.Germany, we're all prisoners of our histories. Germany has been polite
:18:47. > :18:52.publicly about this, but it may be, people are taking a similar view in
:18:52. > :18:57.Germany, to the one you expressed which the Greeks should get out?
:18:57. > :19:01.have spoken to a lot of German politicians who say exactly that.
:19:01. > :19:06.Germany is in a difficult position, I sympathise greatly, they feel
:19:06. > :19:09.they've acted honourablely but now face with the a fundamental choice.
:19:09. > :19:14.Are they prepared to spend large amounts of their taxpayers' money
:19:14. > :19:19.on proping up Greece. I'm not talking about lops, but direct
:19:19. > :19:21.fiscal transfers, because that's what is required to make monetary
:19:22. > :19:25.union between two different economies to make it work correctly.
:19:26. > :19:32.It seems to me F the Germans are not prepared to do that, and all
:19:32. > :19:35.the evidence is they aren't, let's take on the difficult decisions.
:19:35. > :19:40.The uncertainty is destabilising the rest of Europe, and faecking
:19:40. > :19:44.the UK, even though we are not part of the Euro. But, it is unsettling
:19:44. > :19:49.everybody, I think my view is the finance ministers have decided
:19:49. > :19:54.they're going to ask Greece to leave. Let's get on with this, and
:19:54. > :19:59.end the uncertainty of bail out of bailouts. Thank you all very much.
:19:59. > :20:03.Now, when we think of Egypt we think of the pyramids, a modern
:20:03. > :20:08.functioning state and a people who risked their lives to get rid of a
:20:08. > :20:12.tyrant. It is a shock to discover the latest figures show more than
:20:12. > :20:19.90% of Egyptian people suffered female genital mutilation, highest
:20:19. > :20:24.rate anywhere in the world. So it is an official ban on the mission
:20:24. > :20:29.five years ago, there has been a campaign not to mutilate their
:20:29. > :20:39.daughters. But the political upheavals, it is felt, could set
:20:39. > :20:45.
:20:45. > :20:51.them back. You may find the report It is scarcely believeable as you
:20:51. > :20:55.mingle among the evening shoppers in Cairo, with the appearance of
:20:55. > :21:00.any other cosmopolitan city anywhere in the world, that nearly
:21:00. > :21:04.all the women here have been deliberately mutilateed. New
:21:04. > :21:09.figures due out later this year are expect today show a decline on a
:21:09. > :21:11.number of at the malmutilations, four years after the ban was
:21:11. > :21:17.introduced. But they'll still indicate a majority of women in
:21:17. > :21:26.this country, suffer huge, physical, psychological and unjustified pain.
:21:26. > :21:30.And are denied what most women would regard as a normal sex life.
:21:30. > :21:34.Upper Egypt, where the landscape along the Nile hasn't changed in
:21:34. > :21:38.centuries. Nor have the tradition which
:21:38. > :21:45.believes that a family of honour is dependent on the removal of those
:21:45. > :21:51.parts of a girl's body that might arouse sexual desire. To challenge
:21:51. > :21:57.such a blaef in an environment in which sex is nef spoken about in
:21:57. > :22:02.public, campaigner, Nivine Rasmi goes from house-to-house. Talking
:22:02. > :22:06.to people is what we do. We have to know how to reach out to people and
:22:06. > :22:16.discuss this issue with them. a village where Muslims live side
:22:16. > :22:17.
:22:17. > :22:20.by side with Christians, and both communities practice FGM.
:22:20. > :22:26.TransI've had problems in my sexual relationship with my husband
:22:26. > :22:31.because of it it. So when it was explained about the health come
:22:31. > :22:37.employee cases and not part of religious faith, I'm convinced I
:22:37. > :22:44.don't want my daughter circumcised. But the Muslim mother next door is
:22:44. > :22:50.not. The The two older girl cousins have been mutilate and her 11-year-
:22:50. > :22:55.old daughter will be next. TRANSLATION: I will remove this
:22:55. > :22:59.part of her body instead of letting her play with herself, or she might
:22:59. > :23:04.ask a boy to touch this part and might enjoy it. It might be a
:23:04. > :23:10.stranger or one of her male cousins, so this will protect her, and when
:23:10. > :23:14.she'll feel the pain of it, she'll be more careful about this part.
:23:14. > :23:19.Oven it is the husband's family who demand it. Mothers say they can't
:23:19. > :23:23.get their daughters, married without it.
:23:23. > :23:27.TRANSLATION: No-one comes and checks, these days the midwife
:23:27. > :23:35.arrives secretly, does it and leaves in a hurry, so no-one sees
:23:35. > :23:42.her, because it is illegal. But we found nothing secretive about the
:23:42. > :23:49.village midwife. TRANSLATION: Circumcision is
:23:49. > :23:55.healthy for girls, I know this. Pure fiedgirls grow taller and get
:23:55. > :23:59.marriage proposals, but unpure fiedstay short and stuby. Some
:23:59. > :24:07.mothers say they don't want her daughters pure fied, they humour
:24:07. > :24:13.her, but once she's gone they ask me to circum size their girls.
:24:13. > :24:18.I have her mother, her aunt or neighbour, hold her while I cut her.
:24:18. > :24:23.It doesn't take a minute. I cut three parts. I cut the lower part
:24:23. > :24:33.first, so the blood doesn't run down from the upper part. And after,
:24:33. > :24:33.
:24:33. > :24:38.I show the two cut part to the mother, I cut the upper part.
:24:38. > :24:46.you enjoy your work? TRANSLATION: I love it. Like my own
:24:46. > :24:51.eyes, because I need the money. Take me to prison if you want to,
:24:51. > :24:58.take me anywhere, but I will keep circumcising girls, I want the
:24:58. > :25:04.money. And so why doesn't a girl who works
:25:04. > :25:10.for a local NGO take the woman to a police station?
:25:10. > :25:14.TRANSLATION: Who are we gck to report to, in police stations we
:25:14. > :25:20.report to an officer who believes in the custom and is probably doing
:25:20. > :25:24.it to his own daughters. Without support from the authority,
:25:24. > :25:29.campaigners take the message into the classroom. They engage children
:25:29. > :25:38.at a young age to gain their confidence and when they're older
:25:38. > :25:42.they talk about FGM. Salma says she saved more than a hundred girls
:25:42. > :25:48.this way. She's motivated by what happened to her.
:25:48. > :25:54.TRANSLATION: They did my elder sister first. I was the middle and
:25:54. > :25:58.the youngest was after me. The midwife came with two accomplices
:25:58. > :26:02.and bound me by my hands and feet so she could hold me down. I tried
:26:02. > :26:07.to hit one of them but couldn't. I was only ten.
:26:07. > :26:14.I screamed, but they gaged me, so my little sister would not hear the
:26:14. > :26:22.pain. Afterwards I screamed all day. I spent two days recovering, it was
:26:22. > :26:29.terrible. To this day I shudder from the memory. She invited 13-
:26:29. > :26:34.year-old Zaba whose older sister had been mutilated to her teaching.
:26:34. > :26:39.TRANSLATION: I spoke to my mum and told her everything I learned from
:26:39. > :26:43.Salma. I spoke to her politely to convince her. Luckily it worked.
:26:43. > :26:53.There are no benefits to circumcision, people think that way.
:26:53. > :26:54.
:26:54. > :26:59.Once I explained the harm it causes she was convinced. Because people
:27:00. > :27:06.believe it is part of their faith, campaigners appeal to local
:27:06. > :27:11.religious leaders for help. They try, they say, but, it is difficult
:27:11. > :27:15.to change people. TRANSLATION: The main challenge is
:27:15. > :27:20.tradition. In the Old Testament when God ordered Abraham to
:27:20. > :27:24.circumcise, it was only for boys, there was no mention of female
:27:24. > :27:29.circumcision, but in our tradition, it is performed on girls as well.
:27:29. > :27:35.We pray that God will help us in reaching people with the truth.
:27:35. > :27:37.local 78 man splaipd that Muslim leaders are trying hard to get the
:27:37. > :27:41.message heard. TRANSLATION: We are now spreading
:27:41. > :27:46.the word against FGM because it is against our faith for this part of
:27:46. > :27:56.a woman to be seen by anybody else. Which are' telling people not to do
:27:56. > :28:01.it. It appeared the local religious leaders were in agreement, this
:28:01. > :28:06.will the arrival of a more senior cleric. Refusing to look at me, he
:28:06. > :28:12.gave me his view. TRANSLATION: The prophet did it,
:28:12. > :28:17.peace be with him. So this thing is legalised by Islamic law. Egypt's
:28:17. > :28:22.most senior religious figure, issueed a fatwa, against FGM a few
:28:22. > :28:32.years ago, and yet those below him contradict one another. No wonder
:28:32. > :28:41.
:28:41. > :28:46.Whatever stand religious leaders might take, female genital
:28:46. > :28:51.mutilation is a milla old tradition here. It was said it was practised
:28:51. > :28:54.the age of the Pharaohs, well before Christianity arrived in
:28:54. > :28:57.Egypt. It is built into the national psyche and those trying
:28:57. > :29:02.admits it will be very hard to remove.
:29:02. > :29:09.It is like a needle. With this, they can bring the clit Ross
:29:09. > :29:19.outside to cut it. And the other two needles, they put one on the
:29:19. > :29:25.Libya and the other Libya, and stretch it out, so they can cut it.
:29:25. > :29:30.Dr Randa Fakhr El Din runs a MGO in Cairo. They says half the cases
:29:30. > :29:37.they comes across are type one, removal of the clitoris and the
:29:37. > :29:41.rest is the removal of the clitoris and labia, both procedures, carry
:29:41. > :29:48.risks. TRANSLATION: Some of the immediate
:29:48. > :29:53.come employee cases include bleeding, infections from insterile
:29:53. > :30:01.tools. Severe pain, that can lead to body shock, all these can cause
:30:01. > :30:06.the girl to die. We witness come employee cases later on, female
:30:06. > :30:12.circumcision, means these women next reach organism, this means
:30:12. > :30:18.withdrawing from sex from the husband, which means problems in
:30:18. > :30:22.the marriage: Paradoxically, deaths have increased since the practice
:30:22. > :30:27.was banned. TRANSLATION: In some cases, parents
:30:27. > :30:31.don't seek medical care, even if their daughter suffers severe come
:30:31. > :30:37.employee cases, in which case it becomes too late to save their
:30:37. > :30:41.lives. Girls die because their parents are afraid of prosecution.
:30:41. > :30:45.But how much longer will parents be afraid of the law? We were told a
:30:45. > :30:50.crowd gathered outside a house where we'd been filming, after we
:30:50. > :30:58.left, and yelled abuse at the women, saying "they shouldn't talk to
:30:58. > :31:04.foreigners about such traditional matters". A wave of xenophobia and
:31:04. > :31:09.traditionalism, engulfed Egypt since the fall of Mubarak regime.
:31:09. > :31:13.TRANSLATION: It appears new Parliament will oppose laws against
:31:13. > :31:19.FGM because some extremists disagree with laws that protect
:31:19. > :31:24.women and children. We are sure we will see a decline in women and
:31:24. > :31:29.children's right. I asked the spokesman for the sal faffy party,
:31:29. > :31:35.the most extreme of the party, whether they would be supporting
:31:36. > :31:42.the campaign against FGM? This is not a priority. There are more
:31:42. > :31:48.urgent issues involving women. No- one will force women to do
:31:48. > :31:57.something they wouldn't do anything to do. You wouldn't deter a woman
:31:57. > :32:03.to get her daughter mutilated? have nothing to say on this matter.
:32:03. > :32:11.This girl will be mutilate. Well the International Development
:32:11. > :32:16.Minitster, Stephen O'Brien is in our Salford stueed studio. What do
:32:16. > :32:22.you think the British Government's role can help to stop this? This is
:32:22. > :32:25.critical but neglected issue, which deserves global attention. I salute
:32:25. > :32:30.Sue Lloyd-Roberts for that, in bringing attention to the wider
:32:30. > :32:35.public, a very serious issue, on which we have been very focused and
:32:35. > :32:40.the UK people, through the various things we support, be that UNICEF
:32:40. > :32:45.or the UN population fund are working in many countries, where
:32:45. > :32:52.this is still practised. And, to find out Egypt has apparently 90%
:32:52. > :32:57.of their women who have been cut, equally we have similar figures in
:32:57. > :33:03.Somalia. I have myself seen to see a wonderful charity in Senegal
:33:03. > :33:08.which manage today secure,00 villages, now to be female genital
:33:08. > :33:12.mutilation-free. This is all to do with working very hard through the
:33:12. > :33:17.communities themselves, very much led in Africa, by community leaders,
:33:17. > :33:20.oven men, but above all this is getting into the traditions and
:33:20. > :33:26.embedded cultures, particularly of women. There's less evidence this
:33:26. > :33:35.is demanded by men, this is more to do with women's perceptions of
:33:35. > :33:38.daughters being stigmatised. Do you see an obvious ironic, Suzanne
:33:38. > :33:46.Mubarak was one that campaigned against this, they brought this in,
:33:46. > :33:49.and things might get worse, despite the benefit of Arab springs bring
:33:49. > :33:55.to Egypt? You are right, the first ladies of many of the countries,
:33:55. > :33:59.are one of the largest of role models, that we need to make sure
:33:59. > :34:03.are well on with this campaign to recognise in the interest of girls
:34:03. > :34:08.and womens health and rights, this is a practice which needs to come
:34:08. > :34:12.to an end. It is the abandonment through action, clearly the laws
:34:12. > :34:18.have been passed but it is getting the culture and tradition to be
:34:18. > :34:21.banned within the culture themselves. It could actually get
:34:21. > :34:27.worse? It could be more conservative and people could
:34:27. > :34:32.return to the traditional routes. That was part of the what Sue
:34:32. > :34:36.suggested there. This won't be a negative sequence of the Arab
:34:36. > :34:40.Spring and revolution in Egypt. It is clearly being going on both
:34:40. > :34:46.within Muslim and Christian communities, it's been going on for
:34:46. > :34:53.over 2,000 years. It doesn't appeared to be allied to a
:34:53. > :34:57.religious issue, it is a cult tuerl embedded suggest with women. The
:34:57. > :35:04.stigma with marriage, it isn't the husband or husband tobacco
:35:04. > :35:08.demanding that girls, women should be cut, the the morm who inspects
:35:08. > :35:13.who has been to let her son consummate the marriage. It is
:35:13. > :35:17.within the female communities, from their point of view,not an act of
:35:17. > :35:23.violence, but it is in the girl's best interest as they see it. We
:35:23. > :35:28.have to stand up to the right for the choices available and the right
:35:28. > :35:31.advice is working. The charity I saw in Senegal, which we support
:35:31. > :35:38.through the anti-slavery charity, is one which is showing us the way
:35:38. > :35:46.it can strongly encourage us, just as 20 years it took to get rid of
:35:46. > :35:49.Chinese foot binding, 20 years ago. Our Arab Spring watch continues
:35:49. > :35:53.tomorrow where Mark reports on the anniversary of the first uprising
:35:53. > :36:01.there. If the Westminster Government insisted minimum price
:36:01. > :36:05.on a unit of alcohol, say 45 pence or so, in Scotland T could prevent
:36:05. > :36:12.a thousand premature deaths, and prevent some of the social ills, to
:36:12. > :36:17.boozey Britain. But it could mean a big jump in cheap sizeer, begin and
:36:17. > :36:22.voted karks and problems with yuefpbkochtigs law. With David
:36:22. > :36:28.Cameron talking of the scandal of alcohol abuse, is the Government
:36:28. > :36:32.fixing prices a good idea? We investigate. Politicians know
:36:32. > :36:39.exactly what a tragic impact, low or no price booze can have. They've
:36:39. > :36:45.been to the party conferences. Free bar there can turn the driest
:36:45. > :36:49.think-tank fest into the last days of Rome. Prime Minister today,
:36:49. > :36:56.visiting a hospital in the north- east of England, saying he's
:36:56. > :36:59.worried about what he calls the "scandal of increasing public
:36:59. > :37:05.drunkenness". I have been impressed where there's a police officer on
:37:05. > :37:09.duty on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. I want local powers
:37:09. > :37:14.can close down bars, it is against the law to sell to people who are
:37:14. > :37:18.drunk, or underage, you can close down bars. But we need to look at
:37:18. > :37:23.the issues of pricing and how we handle alcohol in hospital as well.
:37:23. > :37:27.We're going to take action across the board, this is a national
:37:27. > :37:31.problem. The Government put the cost of dealing with alcohol
:37:31. > :37:34.problems, for the Department of Health at �2.7 billion. A billion
:37:34. > :37:39.of that, on zept and emergency services.
:37:39. > :37:44.The wider cost to society, which take in everything from days missed
:37:44. > :37:49.at work, to extra policing, are, says the Government between �17
:37:49. > :37:56.billion and �22 billion a year. Last year, there were almost
:37:56. > :38:01.200,000 hospital admissions with what is called a primary alcohol
:38:01. > :38:06.related diagnosis, up 40% since 200. In prewar Britain, public
:38:06. > :38:12.drunkenness was unheard of. There was the occasional bar fight, but
:38:12. > :38:22.that was met with what modern crime fighters, explained as a "zero
:38:22. > :38:23.
:38:23. > :38:28.tolerance" approach. Licensing has in fact got more relaxed. With the
:38:28. > :38:33.Labour Party, ending standard licensing hours in 2005. A move
:38:33. > :38:36.designed to bring in the cafe culture. My view is that the law
:38:36. > :38:41.abiding majority, who want the ability, after going, say to the
:38:41. > :38:46.cinema or theatre to have a drink at the time they want, should not
:38:46. > :38:52.be inconvenienced, we should not have no restrictions that no other
:38:52. > :39:01.city has. Britain has gone through whole boughted drunkenness before,
:39:01. > :39:07.in the 1851 work, Begin skarks lane. What hasn't changed is the
:39:07. > :39:14.political how do you stop those who take an otherwise popular activity
:39:14. > :39:20.to excess without annoying the majority who don't. Nick worked for
:39:20. > :39:25.Tony Blair whilst I was trying to tackle baing drinking. I remember a
:39:25. > :39:30.day in Downing Street, when you go around these issues, you have to
:39:30. > :39:37.impose extra cost, and I have advisers, saying what does that
:39:37. > :39:42.mean a person brinking home cheap beer for BBQ, and the wine club,
:39:42. > :39:47.those are the pressures. current Government is supposed to
:39:47. > :39:51.be considering introducing a minimum price for a unit of alcohol.
:39:51. > :39:57.It would suggest, some, tackle one aspect of modern drinking, that's
:39:57. > :40:04.the people who preload on cheap booze at home before going out.
:40:04. > :40:07.date yea is students are spending less money on going in the town and
:40:07. > :40:12.socialising, however what they are doing is managing to spend more
:40:12. > :40:16.time at home bf they go out for a night out. Roughly, students are
:40:16. > :40:20.spending �7.50 on drinking before they go out for a night out. So
:40:20. > :40:23.students will find other ways, which is why the minimum pricing
:40:23. > :40:29.can be important. Minimum pricing for alcohol is already being
:40:29. > :40:35.introduced in Scotland. But, ending cheap supermarket booze, won't
:40:35. > :40:39.necessarily be politically popular, particularly now when so many
:40:39. > :40:43.household budget are stretched. I'm joined by Professor Mark Bellis in
:40:44. > :40:46.favour of minimum pricing of alcohol, and Helen Lederer who
:40:46. > :40:50.likes the occasional drink. One thing that strikes me, whatever you
:40:50. > :40:54.may say in favour of this, isn't it going to work out a tax on the poor.
:40:54. > :40:58.It tends the poorer people will pay, because they will drink some of
:40:58. > :41:02.those drinks? It is actually the poor that stand the best benefits
:41:02. > :41:05.from this. They're the ones, suffering from alcohol relate
:41:05. > :41:10.problems at the moment. If we reduce the levels of consumption,
:41:10. > :41:14.some of the communities, we might see less crime, we'll see better
:41:14. > :41:20.health, they can benefit a lot. If we worey about the poor, some of
:41:20. > :41:25.the taxes we make on the �22 billion that costs society, we can
:41:25. > :41:30.put that back in the inequality and that will doo more good than
:41:30. > :41:36.worrying when they can get drunk. What do you think about this, we're
:41:36. > :41:41.aware of any city at night, you see drunkenness? I can't disagree on
:41:41. > :41:45.most facts, in the sense excessive dripging causes a lot of disease,
:41:45. > :41:50.that one would wish to be available. But is there that much evidence
:41:50. > :41:56.that people have drinking that much more than how they used to? This is
:41:56. > :42:00.a bit of a data bury bad news, and it is alarming that David Cameron
:42:01. > :42:04.is talking about cells to put drink people in. We're sensationalising
:42:04. > :42:08.young drunk people with television programmes and pack yaiblging, as
:42:08. > :42:13.we do with the gypsy wedding, we're talking about the culture. And I
:42:13. > :42:18.don't understand all the money that's gone into research,
:42:18. > :42:24.campaigns, that really aren't impactful at all. Like drinking for
:42:24. > :42:29.two days. Not drinking for two days? Not drinking, the point is we
:42:29. > :42:34.all drink. Most people drink, if you don't want to, that's fine.
:42:34. > :42:41.However horrible it may be at the edges, it is part of our culture
:42:41. > :42:45.and has been for hundreds of years? Yes. In the early 870s, we were
:42:45. > :42:50.drinking 50% less than we're drinking now. And people weren't
:42:50. > :42:53.saying we're drinking enough. We've seen an increase, we're drinking
:42:53. > :42:57.more, decades more, seen increaseness consumption, we're
:42:57. > :43:03.paying the price for those, not just in health, but the pressures
:43:03. > :43:07.on the health services and amount of money people are paying in taxes
:43:07. > :43:11.to help health and criminal justice services. I don't buy this. Why is
:43:11. > :43:17.all the statistics, I don't have the backing that you have, and the
:43:17. > :43:22.jb you have, and I'm not sheer to fiscally sort out the fiscal cost
:43:22. > :43:25.to the NHS. The human cost is there should be more employment and today
:43:25. > :43:32.the headlines is about massive youth unemployment. And young
:43:32. > :43:37.people drink. When I was a student, well I drink now. I dripg when I
:43:37. > :43:43.want to drink. And sometimes too much? Yes but that's normal, and
:43:43. > :43:47.you can wake up the next morning, when you say "oh goodness what did
:43:47. > :43:50.I say" that's part of society. Abusive problems, which is your job
:43:50. > :43:54.to be concerned about, I respect that, but the headlines have gone
:43:55. > :43:59.mad today. Do you think, I wonder whether, people don't say this, but
:43:59. > :44:04.whether as a society this, is the price we're prepared to pay for the
:44:04. > :44:09.way that we are? It is terrible, we could save money, lives and all
:44:09. > :44:12.kinds of human misery, but we are apparently, prepared to pay this
:44:12. > :44:17.price? I don't think people know the price they're paying, it is
:44:17. > :44:21.over �0 billion in the cost to our society in terms of alcohol. If
:44:21. > :44:27.people want to pay that price that, should be reflected on the price
:44:27. > :44:33.they pay for alcohol. A child's pocket money, is not enough to get
:44:33. > :44:37.drunk in a week. So, let's make sure people can enjoy alcohol in
:44:37. > :44:43.moderation, a night outs certainly, but they don't have to suffer from
:44:43. > :44:47.the problems, that city centres are full of drunk people. Is this the
:44:47. > :44:52.best way? There are all other kinds of things that have been suggested?
:44:52. > :44:59.Is this the best option? fairest option is put in a minimum
:44:59. > :45:05.price in. That will bring down the consumption of the most vulnerable
:45:05. > :45:10.groups joox if you want to drink or want to smoke or eat a doughnut,
:45:10. > :45:17.which I want to do all three, accept I don't smoke, I will find a
:45:17. > :45:22.way to find a doughnut. We've gone, I just, this is the wrong focus. I
:45:22. > :45:26.think we should be looking at emphasising, that stress can be
:45:26. > :45:31.relieved by drinking, plus, we should put positive images on the
:45:31. > :45:36.television, about people who are not drunk. Why don't we look at the
:45:36. > :45:40.broader way of examining social messages, that just putting up
:45:40. > :45:45.vodka, and increasing the profit margin of supermarket that don't
:45:45. > :45:51.need it. We have plenty of positive messages on television, the alcohol
:45:51. > :45:55.industry make sure we look at that. But we don't see the cancers,
:45:55. > :46:02.domestic violence, and illness and criminal justice system.
:46:02. > :46:06.Now, there's a new line in the story Newsnight broke S public
:46:06. > :46:12.servants paid through companies, likely to reduce the amount they
:46:12. > :46:16.would tai. The student loan company was using this tech teak technique,
:46:16. > :46:19.and 5 people working at the Department of Health is looking at
:46:19. > :46:23.this story. The problem for the Department of Health is in a
:46:23. > :46:27.written answer to a parliamentary question, said no members of staff
:46:27. > :46:32.were being paid in this way to a limited company, tax efficient
:46:32. > :46:36.likely for the person involved. The Guardian have the e-mails that are
:46:36. > :46:40.allegeed to show, 25 people in the department, mainly senior people,
:46:40. > :46:46.are being paid in this way, and while they may not be technically
:46:46. > :46:50.be staff of the department, they've been there for many years. They've
:46:50. > :46:55.e-mails showing the departmental civil servants having a somewhat
:46:55. > :47:01.thick of it style discussion about how to avoid revealing this, so
:47:01. > :47:11.they've apologised tonight and the review is under way. That's we have
:47:11. > :47:14.
:47:14. > :47:24.time for. From all of us here good Body body hello there. It looks
:47:24. > :47:26.
:47:26. > :47:33.like turning colder this weekend. A reasonable day across the
:47:33. > :47:37.southern half of the UK. We will have a weather front edging down to
:47:37. > :47:43.northern England. But for the Midlands, and East Anglia, I won't
:47:43. > :47:48.rule out a shower, but mostly stay fine. A bit of a breeze, but not as
:47:48. > :47:54.strong as it has been today. Brightness hanging on across the
:47:54. > :48:00.south-east of Wales. Further north and west, it will cloud up. For
:48:00. > :48:07.Northern Ireland, rain now and again, particularly further west
:48:07. > :48:14.you'll go. After a wet start across Scotland, it will head southwards
:48:14. > :48:19.and clear up. So, looking further ahead across northern areas, more
:48:19. > :48:23.rain to come, before things will change brighter and colder before