:00:10. > :00:14.The country's in a mess, the Prime Minister's solution to our creaking
:00:14. > :00:20.infrastructure? Send for the shade of Isambard Kingdon Brunel.
:00:20. > :00:25.There is now an urgent need to repair the decades-long degradation
:00:25. > :00:30.of our national infrastructure, and to build for the future, with as
:00:30. > :00:36.much ambition for the future as the Victorians once did. Does this make
:00:36. > :00:42.sense? Who is the Prime Minister trying to kid. Will footing the bid
:00:42. > :00:47.to bring back the old beast, the public-private partnership.
:00:47. > :00:50.France mourns the killing of three children and a teacher at a Jewish
:00:50. > :00:54.school. What effect are religious and racial prejudices having on the
:00:54. > :00:58.elections there. He is one of the most colourful
:00:58. > :01:04.politicians in America, leaving Congress, so he can marry his
:01:04. > :01:09.boyfriend, and not be nice to people he disagrees with.
:01:09. > :01:13.We talk to Congressman Barney Frank. Obey, obey.
:01:14. > :01:23.The search is on for a new Director General of the BBC, which candidate
:01:24. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :01:33.has the right stuff, who would want William Armstrong, Cherif Bassiouni,
:01:33. > :01:37.Henry Bessemer and Isambard Kingdon Brunel, are now -- and now
:01:37. > :01:40.apparently David Cameron, the achievements of the great Victorian
:01:40. > :01:43.engineers, achievements that transformed Britain to the leading
:01:44. > :01:46.power of the world, can be replicated in the 21st century.
:01:46. > :01:49.They can, if we are to believe the Prime Minister. Today he was
:01:49. > :01:53.talking about being part of a transforming generation himself. It
:01:53. > :02:01.will be done by liberating the private sector, apparently. This
:02:01. > :02:05.from our political editor. They shrank a journey time from
:02:05. > :02:09.several days to hours, slicing through the country with new track,
:02:09. > :02:14.laceing ravines with bridges, and building stations like palaces. In
:02:14. > :02:19.more ways than one, those Victorians really knew how to make
:02:19. > :02:22.an entrance. Can we ever climb such heady engineering heights again?
:02:23. > :02:27.The truth is, we are falling behind. We are falling behind our
:02:27. > :02:31.competitors and falling behind the great world-beating, pioneering
:02:31. > :02:36.tradition, set by those who came before us. There is now an urgent
:02:36. > :02:40.need to repair the decades-long degradation of our national
:02:40. > :02:44.infrastruck tue, and to build for the future, with as - infrastruck
:02:44. > :02:47.tue, and to build for the future with the same confidence as the
:02:47. > :02:53.Victorians. The Prime Minister set out what he wanted to do about it,
:02:53. > :02:58.use the power of the state to unleash the dynamism of the market.
:02:58. > :03:03.Britain's infrastructure, such as roads, should enjoy the influx of
:03:03. > :03:08.investment from private investment as those building this station Z
:03:08. > :03:13.for some it was a speech for the charter of for privatisation, for
:03:13. > :03:17.others it was what they had been waiting to hear. We will wait
:03:17. > :03:20.forever for infrastructure we need, if we wait for finances to be in
:03:20. > :03:23.the perfect conditions and finance it all out of public spending. That
:03:23. > :03:27.will not happen in the short-term, in the short-term we have to build
:03:27. > :03:31.up airport capacity, and improve train networks so they aren't so
:03:31. > :03:34.expensive and congest, and we have to address congestion on the roads.
:03:34. > :03:38.We need the Government to create the conditions in which private
:03:38. > :03:40.investment can be leverageed to best effect, to compliment the
:03:40. > :03:43.meagre resources available from the public purse.
:03:43. > :03:48.The opening of a revamped King's Cross today is an example, the
:03:48. > :03:53.Prime Minister said, of Britain getting it right. But victories
:03:53. > :03:57.were few, and this failure, was in part, one of funding. Sovereign
:03:57. > :04:03.welfare funds and pension funds could be levered in to improve
:04:03. > :04:07.roads. If they make a road better they could make profit. To attract
:04:07. > :04:11.serious investment, are the reforms enough? The reasons the Victorians
:04:11. > :04:16.invested so much in infrastructure is they knew they could make money
:04:16. > :04:20.out of it. For the Prime Minister the problem is with the planning
:04:20. > :04:24.regulations it is harder for businesses. With the railways, it
:04:24. > :04:28.is all very well saying the private sector can invest in them, but when
:04:28. > :04:31.you have the Government saying you have to run commercially unviable
:04:31. > :04:35.routes in rural areas, it makes it very hard for companies trying to
:04:35. > :04:40.turn a profit. Some think the Prime Minister is
:04:40. > :04:45.not going far enough, others think it will lead to road pricing, and
:04:45. > :04:50.warn that is political no man's land? A lot of these things keep
:04:50. > :04:54.coming round, road tolling does, if you want to raise more money, as
:04:54. > :04:58.suggests, it is like a large PFI scheme, you pay slightly more over
:04:58. > :05:02.a period. The political problem is if something is free today and it
:05:02. > :05:06.will cost you tomorrow, if you fill your car up and it will cost �100,
:05:06. > :05:09.there is a lot of resistance. That is why successive Governments
:05:09. > :05:15.thought about it hard and it has fall bin the way side.
:05:15. > :05:17.MPs from the new -- Fallen by the way side. MPs from the new intake
:05:17. > :05:21.are more zealous than the Prime Minister. Private investment would
:05:21. > :05:26.be part of a detailed blueprint to redesign the economy, not to
:05:26. > :05:31.mention lower taxes and business. If we look at our European partners,
:05:31. > :05:37.only three out of the 27 countries have a fully state-funded network,
:05:37. > :05:41.they are Bulgaria, and Slovenia, this is the right way forward. We
:05:41. > :05:48.could do more, I would cut corporation tax to 15%, send ago
:05:48. > :05:51.clear signal that Britain is open for business. We need more tax cuts,
:05:51. > :05:56.and deregulation, small companies need to employ younger workers, we
:05:56. > :06:00.have a problem with youth unemployment. We can't rely on the
:06:00. > :06:04.old infrastructure, built 100 years ago by the Victorians. Today it
:06:04. > :06:09.will take at least 14 years for the first section of high-speed 2 to
:06:09. > :06:12.open. Compared with the five years it took the Victorians to get the
:06:12. > :06:15.first Inter City rail link from drawing board to track. The Prime
:06:15. > :06:19.Minister has not got 14 years, nor five, but before the next election
:06:19. > :06:23.he has just three years to engineer growth.
:06:23. > :06:27.We are lucky enough to have with us the Conservative, Jesse Norman, the
:06:27. > :06:32.economist and director of Prime Economic, Ann Pettifor, and the
:06:32. > :06:37.entrepeneur and former Dragon, Doug Richard.
:06:37. > :06:40.Don't you think motorists pay enough? Absolutely, they pay a
:06:40. > :06:44.fortune. Why do you want them to pay more? The Prime Minister's
:06:44. > :06:47.speech was not about that, if you read it. It was about not so much
:06:47. > :06:51.charging, but within Government. Deciding whether you will put money
:06:51. > :06:57.aside so that instead of paying for these things with an enormous
:06:57. > :07:03.amount of PFI debt and overhang, you pay as you go. It is a new
:07:03. > :07:07.system of financing infrastructure. Where will all the toll roads go?
:07:07. > :07:11.If there are toll roads, which we don't know yet, they will go
:07:11. > :07:14.wherever demand takes them. You are not suggesting me there isn't a
:07:14. > :07:17.need for road infrastructure up and down the country. I was asking
:07:17. > :07:21.where they would go? Where they are needed. They will, will they?
:07:21. > :07:25.is the pleasure of having a new system of infrastructure that will
:07:25. > :07:29.be financed by demand. We will come to how serious the Prime Minister
:07:29. > :07:33.is about all of this in a moment or two. First of all, Doug Richard, is
:07:33. > :07:38.this an idea that will work? think there is some uncertainty in
:07:38. > :07:41.that, isn't there. The fact of the matter is, it really depends on the
:07:41. > :07:44.competency of the Government to cut a deal that is effective. Do you
:07:44. > :07:47.think that the Government is competent to strike a deal that is
:07:47. > :07:51.effective? I think the Government has every opportunity to strike a
:07:51. > :07:56.deal that is effective. The real question is, do they ask of private
:07:56. > :08:01.industry to take risk that comes with reward, to the degree that
:08:01. > :08:05.they ask, if they underpin the risk, the private industry gets a free
:08:05. > :08:08.ride. What does experience tell but that? That is a rather leading
:08:08. > :08:11.question. Government has not historically done terribly well.
:08:11. > :08:14.is a rather sensible idea, if we can't afford out of the public
:08:14. > :08:21.finance, then to get the private sector to make the investment, it
:08:21. > :08:24.is a God thing, isn't it? First of all -- it is It is a good thing,
:08:24. > :08:28.isn't it? First of all, I agree with the Prime Minister that we
:08:28. > :08:31.need to improve infrastructure. We are trapped in this flawed notion
:08:31. > :08:36.that we can't afford to investment in our infrastructure, and yet
:08:36. > :08:40.today we are going to give the private banks and subsidy of �5
:08:40. > :08:43.billion of tax-payers' money. Clearly we can afford some kind of
:08:43. > :08:46.supsidies. But why not supsidies for those public services that are
:08:46. > :08:52.vital to keep the private sector going?
:08:52. > :08:56.This is an ideolgical commitment, then, isn't it? I don't think it is,
:08:56. > :09:00.actually particularly ideolgical. It is really about trying to think
:09:00. > :09:04.of more intelligent ways to finance infrastructure. We had PFI, that
:09:04. > :09:08.turned out to be too expensive, too inflexible, and not very
:09:08. > :09:13.transparent. This is trying a new method that doesn't create a huge
:09:13. > :09:17.overhang of debt and allows things to be paid for as you use them.
:09:17. > :09:20.are they so underwhelmed by your ability to deal with it, they are
:09:20. > :09:23.hardly on the same side of the fence? I don't think Government is
:09:24. > :09:26.a particularly good client, that is the lesson of PFI, you have to
:09:26. > :09:30.improve the quality of clients sitting on the other end of it.
:09:30. > :09:35.is crazy, right now there is a real big problem in the economy, that is
:09:35. > :09:39.the lack of demand. And the Government is trying all these
:09:39. > :09:44.wheezes to some how improve supply, but without addressing the big hole,
:09:44. > :09:46.the big slump. You know, we may do all of these things, but if
:09:46. > :09:50.customers are not going to use those roads, if drivers aren't
:09:50. > :09:54.going to use the roads, because of oil price rises, and the cost, as
:09:54. > :09:55.you say, will be daunting for drivers. That is why the Automobile
:09:55. > :09:59.Association is against this idea already.
:09:59. > :10:03.They are against anything that makes driving more difficult for
:10:03. > :10:08.people in cars. Why are you shaking your head when Ann Pettifor says
:10:08. > :10:11.that? Because she's working from a lovely, but very old fashioned view
:10:11. > :10:14.of the world. The fact of the matter, to my mind the question is
:10:14. > :10:18.not so much whether there is a demand for infrastructure, we agree
:10:18. > :10:25.on that, the question comes down to what form of infrastructure do we
:10:25. > :10:29.need. We don't live in a Victorian age. What we need is 21st century
:10:29. > :10:34.rail board, and that is called Broadband, you need infrastructure
:10:34. > :10:42.proved to create it. He is looking at the wrong kind of
:10:42. > :10:48.infrastructure? We need infrastruck tue, we do need broad --
:10:48. > :10:51.infrastructure, we do need board band. We have �3-�5 billion worth
:10:51. > :10:55.of need over the next 20 years, it spans everything from broadband,
:10:55. > :10:59.energy, transport, railways. You don't have to go far in Europe to
:10:59. > :11:02.see, look at French roads, they are enormously much better that the
:11:02. > :11:06.motorways than we are, other things we can do, smarter ways of doing
:11:06. > :11:09.things. That is what the speech is about. They have space and land,
:11:09. > :11:12.they have wide open spaces. roads, he has already told us the
:11:12. > :11:16.toll roads will go where they are needed in this country, we will
:11:16. > :11:20.have to wait and see. That is what you said? No I said the decision as
:11:20. > :11:27.to where they went would be dependant on public demand, that is
:11:27. > :11:30.a different things. We as drivers won't have a choice. We have a
:11:30. > :11:37.Prime Minister who talked about the need for expanded airport xasty.
:11:38. > :11:42.You read the speech, you have it there. He capacity, you read the
:11:42. > :11:47.speech, you have it there, yet he exposed the expansion of Heathrow.
:11:47. > :11:50.How can you believe in airport expansion and go against that?
:11:50. > :11:55.Heathrow is not the only airport in the country. He talk about Gatwick.
:11:55. > :12:01.Let's talk about other aspects of bona fides, the commitment to
:12:01. > :12:06.Victorian values? Victorian values, in infrastructure were magnificent.
:12:06. > :12:14.These were hard-headed, thoroughly practical, engineering vision rees.
:12:14. > :12:19.Built with sweated Labour? That aspect is something that will never
:12:19. > :12:23.be replicated, so is trampling over property rights. He's focusing on
:12:23. > :12:29.the energy, the vision, the entrepeneurship, and the sense of
:12:29. > :12:34.possibility. We should welcome that. The point is this, the Victorians
:12:34. > :12:38.were wonderfully entrepreneurals, they had big ideas and built this
:12:38. > :12:43.big infrastructure, ultimately it proved unviable. The railways were
:12:43. > :12:47.nationalised in the 1920s? That doesn't mean unviable. Look at our
:12:47. > :12:52.infrastructure in sewage, we are relying on that in most of London.
:12:53. > :12:56.That was mainly built bli the public sector and the London --
:12:56. > :13:01.built by the public sector, the London County Council.
:13:01. > :13:04.castrated local Government. Successive administrations have
:13:04. > :13:08.taken away power from local Government n way this Government is
:13:08. > :13:12.correcting. What this Government is trying to do is create even more
:13:12. > :13:17.private monoplies than we already have, we have a private monopoly in
:13:17. > :13:21.energy. We the consumers, we the tax-payers are taking the risk, and
:13:21. > :13:26.underwriting the private sector risk. That is completely confused.
:13:26. > :13:29.That will be very, very unpopular. Stop glaring daggers at her, tell
:13:29. > :13:33.us why you disagree with this analysis? We are bend ago great
:13:33. > :13:43.deal of very important discussion to a very narrow, and some what be
:13:43. > :13:49.a secure element of the larger discussion. Tell that to the
:13:49. > :13:53.taxpayer? I am a taxpayer, I pay mine to two Government. I think we
:13:53. > :13:57.need infrastruck tue, but I profoundly disagree we need to
:13:57. > :14:01.focus on roads. I have an issue with the notion that we have a
:14:01. > :14:06.certain amount of money needed that is gospel, in truth, we have
:14:06. > :14:11.choices to make. If we increase, for example, I don't want to go on,
:14:11. > :14:16.if we increase broadband, we decrease the need for the road
:14:16. > :14:19.increase, decease transport needs. The experiments in Cornwall, for
:14:19. > :14:23.increased broadband, for both Governments have shown an increased
:14:23. > :14:26.economic benefit for those areas. come from Herefordshire, if you
:14:26. > :14:29.could live there you would, the only problem is lack of
:14:29. > :14:32.communication, we need broadband communications and decent roads,
:14:32. > :14:36.that is part of the system. Of course it is not about some magic
:14:36. > :14:42.number, you have a variety of different estimates, Government
:14:42. > :14:46.taking advice on all different fronts. You need a system, inpex
:14:46. > :14:50.pensive, sensitive -- inexpensive, and sensitive to demands. In South
:14:50. > :14:54.Korea today they have a level of broadband to the average apartment
:14:54. > :14:58.that we do not aspire until 2015. They have way in advance of that,
:14:58. > :15:02.it is a precise point of this speech to try to get on track to
:15:02. > :15:06.achieve some of that level of penetration. That is absolutely
:15:06. > :15:10.right. These are basic needs for the economy, and the public sector
:15:10. > :15:14.should be providing these. Precisely to stimulate all the
:15:14. > :15:19.businesses that depend on broadband. That is purely an ideolgical point
:15:19. > :15:23.too? It is not. Why not say it is up to the public sector? These are
:15:23. > :15:27.natural monoplies, if you give them to the private sector they become
:15:27. > :15:32.monoplies. In your world BT would not be privatised, no mobile
:15:32. > :15:35.industry, we would be sit anything mud huts, that is crazy,
:15:35. > :15:40.competition drives change. That is what will happen here, twof
:15:40. > :15:44.restrain it in place, but we have to I -- we have to restrain it in
:15:44. > :15:47.places, but we have to expand. are looking for private sector
:15:47. > :15:52.investment in nuclear power in Japan, we are looking at Fukushima,
:15:52. > :15:55.a private sector company that pretended it was regulated. We are
:15:55. > :15:59.looking at regulators that pretended to regulate, and we have
:15:59. > :16:03.a disaster. What happens, the Japanese taxpayer comes and bails
:16:03. > :16:06.out this company. Never behind the destruction caused by the failure
:16:06. > :16:11.of that private company. I don't think there was anything in David
:16:11. > :16:13.Cameron's speech about building nuclear reactors? Let alone whether
:16:13. > :16:17.or not it was the difference between private or public. It was
:16:17. > :16:21.built on a faunt line, when it broke, Fukushima -- fault line,
:16:21. > :16:25.when it broke, Fukushima was enormously compromised. That was
:16:25. > :16:28.not a decision for private or public. There is expertise in the
:16:28. > :16:31.private sector for this area, none in the public sec to you have to
:16:32. > :16:36.deal with it, there is no money -- public sector, you have to deal
:16:36. > :16:38.with it, and there is no money in the public sector. There is loads
:16:38. > :16:41.of money. Three children and a rabbi were
:16:41. > :16:46.murdered today, three soldiers were shot dead last week, and another
:16:46. > :16:50.left seriously wounded. The same gun was used in all attacks,
:16:50. > :16:54.according to the police. The absence of many facts, specktation
:16:55. > :17:02.abounds, notably that France has some crazed racial extremist on the
:17:02. > :17:07.loose, it has won -- the France administration has condemned the
:17:07. > :17:15.events and sympathises with the families of the victims.
:17:15. > :17:18.Is anything more known about the perpetrator of this attack? The
:17:18. > :17:22.frenzied work undergoing at the moment is focusing on building a
:17:22. > :17:27.profile of this killer, obviously they have quite a good picture of
:17:27. > :17:30.how he operates, from one scene on Thursday they traced him on 40
:17:30. > :17:34.different cameras, before he disappeared on the motorway outside
:17:34. > :17:38.Toulouse. They know he's a local man, from the roads he uses, they
:17:38. > :17:44.also know he's someone with considerable military training, in
:17:44. > :17:48.the way he handles his weapon. They believe there could be a former
:17:48. > :17:53.soldier. One line of inquiry tonight is focusing on three former
:17:53. > :17:57.paratroopers at a local base, who were dismissed for links to far
:17:57. > :18:01.right extremism. On Thursday, at the second shooting, an eyewitness
:18:01. > :18:05.said she saw a tattoo on the face of the gunman. It just so happens
:18:05. > :18:09.that one of these paratroopers they are looking for also has an
:18:09. > :18:13.identifying tattoo on his face. This takes place in the middle of
:18:13. > :18:17.an election campaign, doesn't it. An election campaign in which race
:18:17. > :18:20.and immigration has been an issue? Yes, very much so. I think
:18:20. > :18:25.everything that happens in France at the moment has to be seen
:18:25. > :18:29.through the prisism of the election campaign. The President was here in
:18:29. > :18:32.Toulouse today, as well he should be, given the shocking nature of
:18:33. > :18:37.the attack we are talking about. I think this could go one of two ways
:18:37. > :18:41.for him, if he or his men catch the killer in the next few days, well
:18:41. > :18:44.and good, he's the man tough on law and order. The President who has
:18:44. > :18:48.talked tough on law and order in the past. That will improve his
:18:48. > :18:52.standing on the right, you would presume. There has been criticism
:18:52. > :18:55.in recent days that he has veered to the right, in a cynical attempt,
:18:55. > :19:01.say the opposition, to attract those votes from the far right.
:19:01. > :19:07.Votes that have strayed from his party to the resurgent party. He
:19:07. > :19:14.has said tonight in a speech from the he will Elysee Palace that he
:19:14. > :19:24.will suspend -- -- from the Elysee Palace that he will suspend his
:19:24. > :19:29.campaign. Now, in Paris, Jacques Myard, an MP
:19:30. > :19:35.from President Sarkis's Union for a Popular Movement. In London is the
:19:35. > :19:38.President of the Conference of the European -- Conference of European
:19:38. > :19:42.Rabbis, Pinchas Goldschmidt. I suppose it is a rather obvious
:19:42. > :19:48.question to ask, what has been the impact in France of the tragedy?
:19:48. > :19:55.The nation is shocked. There is no doubt, you know. Everyone really is
:19:55. > :20:00.amazed by this hate, this violence. I think this is, thought the
:20:00. > :20:04.country, just -- throughout the country, just unique condemnation
:20:05. > :20:09.of what has been having there. We don't know who he is, what is his
:20:09. > :20:14.motivation. We know that we refuse such an act.
:20:14. > :20:19.What do you make of it? A person doesn't get up in the morning, and
:20:19. > :20:25.takes a gun and just kills three children. And a rabbi. This always
:20:26. > :20:35.happens in a certain context. A person influenced either by the
:20:35. > :20:39.media, or by the political climate, in his or her country.
:20:39. > :20:42.Unfortunately what has happened over the last few weeks, in France,
:20:42. > :20:47.has been a catalyst for what has happened today.
:20:47. > :20:54.You think that this is taking place within a specific political context
:20:54. > :20:59.and there is a degree, almost, of political instigation? It is no
:20:59. > :21:09.secret that the extreme right in France, Jean-Marie Le Pen, has
:21:09. > :21:12.
:21:12. > :21:16.brought up the issue of Parisians eating meat slaughtered by Muslims.
:21:16. > :21:24.This issue has been furthered almost by mainstream candidates. So
:21:24. > :21:31.I believe this kind of loss, which has been propagateed, not only in
:21:31. > :21:39.France, but the laws against minute rites in Switzerland, the attempt
:21:39. > :21:44.to ban halal and Kosher meat in Holland, creates an atmosphere of
:21:44. > :21:54.intolerance. What do you make of this analysis? I'm shocked. I can't
:21:54. > :21:56.
:21:56. > :22:01.accept it. Nobody knows what his motivation is. Nobody knows who he
:22:01. > :22:05.is, is he a racist or a terrorist. I don't appreciate these speeches,
:22:05. > :22:09.which is not the truth in this case. You are quite right, we don't know.
:22:10. > :22:15.Just a second, what we do know, is that it takes place in the context
:22:15. > :22:18.of an election campaign, in which your President has been making
:22:19. > :22:24.specific allegations about immigration, about possibly
:22:24. > :22:28.withdrawing from the Schengen agreement, and so on? The point of
:22:28. > :22:32.immigration in France is a permanent topic, and not only in
:22:32. > :22:36.this campaign. We ask the immigrants to really integrate and
:22:36. > :22:42.respect the French law, and especially security and tolerance.
:22:42. > :22:49.This is what we ask from immigrants, who want to live in France,
:22:49. > :22:55.peaceful low. I tell you one thing, that 99%, do want to live in peace
:22:55. > :23:02.in France. So there is always, in a society, unfortunately, a tuney
:23:02. > :23:09.society, a tiny minority, which really acts this way. What do you
:23:09. > :23:15.say when a British person from main origin just explodes bombs in
:23:15. > :23:19.London. This is the same thing, you are not mitigating with the general
:23:19. > :23:21.speech of a campaign. So the general speech of the campaign
:23:21. > :23:25.today is also the question of immigrants, this is a question of
:23:25. > :23:34.security. This is a question of unemployment, and so on. So I
:23:34. > :23:37.cannot accept what has been just said before by the rabbi. Jumping
:23:37. > :23:42.to conclusions. You could also have mentioned the lunatic in Norway
:23:42. > :23:49.that started shooting people, that wasn't the consequences of
:23:49. > :23:53.political issues? Had I disagree. His big hero was Wilders in Holland.
:23:53. > :23:57.It doesn't take place in the context, you can't attribute blame
:23:57. > :24:05.to the whole of Norwegian society, or the whole Norwegian political
:24:05. > :24:08.class? No, what I'm saying is that extremists are inspired by
:24:08. > :24:16.political movements. Political movements which are more mainstream,
:24:17. > :24:22.which makes statements. Which then legitimises certain
:24:22. > :24:27.minorities or certain groups of immigrants. In every every society
:24:27. > :24:36.you have extremists and unbalanced people. They take this
:24:36. > :24:40.delepblgsisation, a step further. -- lepblgs lays a step further. --
:24:40. > :24:44.legislation a step further. This national French citizen who killed
:24:44. > :24:48.a few days ago a French soldier, who fought under the French flag,
:24:48. > :24:57.whose only sin was that he was a Muslim. And Today he killed
:24:57. > :25:00.children. D today he killed children. --
:25:00. > :25:05.today he killed children, what unites both these communities is
:25:05. > :25:10.they are Jewish, what unites these communities is the issue, the way
:25:10. > :25:20.they behave towards animals, was raised in the national campaign, so
:25:20. > :25:22.
:25:22. > :25:26.I believe there has to be introspection by the body of
:25:26. > :25:31.loadership in France. President Sarkis did the right thing to go to
:25:31. > :25:40.Toulouse. Do you accept there is a need for
:25:40. > :25:45.introspection here? I always say it is the far extreme right guy. He
:25:45. > :25:50.can be also someone coming from the, let's say, Al-Qaeda movement, the
:25:50. > :25:55.ones who target to the French army and especially Muslim soldiers, who
:25:55. > :26:02.are fighting in Afghanistan. And we have unfortunately imported also in
:26:02. > :26:04.Europe. The nearest conflict, so we know there are a lot of
:26:05. > :26:10.explanations which can match with what has happened. We don't know
:26:10. > :26:14.what is really in his head. I will be very prudent, and I cannot
:26:14. > :26:19.accept this kind of negative speeches by our dear rabbi. Because
:26:19. > :26:25.I think that he jumped to the conclusion, we don't know yet. All
:26:25. > :26:28.I know is the entire political classes contem, very clearly this
:26:28. > :26:38.act. -- condemn very clearly this act. This is the only thing I can
:26:38. > :26:39.
:26:39. > :26:44.say tonight, we are waiting for the judicial inquiry. The next fence in
:26:44. > :26:47.the White Housele chase happens, as Illinois decides who it will take
:26:47. > :26:51.on President Obama. Mitt Romney has a string in his step, but there are
:26:51. > :26:55.months to go to the party conventions and the elections.
:26:55. > :26:59.One of the great characters of American politics, Congressman
:26:59. > :27:08.Barney Frank, will be bowing out in those elections, in a moment I will
:27:08. > :27:11.get his reflections on US politics. There are some pretty famous
:27:11. > :27:15.American Barneys, the department store, George Bush's dog, the
:27:15. > :27:24.children's TV character, and then there's Barney Frank, who, in his
:27:24. > :27:32.way, is every bit as remarkable as a talking pink dinosaur.
:27:32. > :27:36.The cartoons are over, we're getting into the double feature.
:27:36. > :27:41.Discussions of the rights of gay men and lesbians to equal treatment
:27:41. > :27:45.rarely made the press. They were considered to be marginal issues.
:27:45. > :27:49.As the first Congressman to voluntarily come out as gay, Barney
:27:49. > :27:54.Frank was always going to get noticed. He has been at the
:27:54. > :27:58.forefront of the struggle for gay rights. The repeal of the US
:27:58. > :28:03.military's "don't ask, don't tell" legislation, left him visibly moved.
:28:03. > :28:08.He plans to marry his long-term partner, his state, Massachusetts,
:28:08. > :28:13.one of only six in the US, that permits gay marriage. The issue is
:28:13. > :28:17.likely to be at the forefront of this year's presidential election.
:28:17. > :28:21.The Congressman, though, is best known for his smart, sometimes
:28:21. > :28:31.blistering rhetoric, never perhaps has a politician been so aptly
:28:31. > :28:31.
:28:31. > :28:36.named. Been trying to have a conversation
:28:36. > :28:46.with you, would be like trying to argue with a dining room table, I
:28:46. > :28:47.
:28:47. > :28:52.I'm still waiting for a simple answer. I'm waiting for you to tell
:28:52. > :29:01.me what I think. You are a public representative, I am a student.
:29:01. > :29:05.Which allows you to say things that you don't back up?
:29:05. > :29:08.It is, though, in seeking to limit the power of the banks, that most
:29:08. > :29:12.people will know Barney Frank. Though some Republicans claim it
:29:13. > :29:19.was he, and others like him, who helped inflate the housing bubble.
:29:19. > :29:25.Those who argue that housing prices are now at the point of a bubble,
:29:25. > :29:31.seem to me to be missing a very important point. Homes that are
:29:31. > :29:35.occupied, may seen an ebb and flow in the prois at a certain
:29:35. > :29:39.percentage level, you will not see the -- price at a certain
:29:39. > :29:46.percentage level, you will not see a collapse like when people talk
:29:46. > :29:51.about a bubble. As this ad shows, Barney Frank,
:29:51. > :29:55.drew a lot of criticism from his political opponents, none managed
:29:55. > :30:02.to unseat him. For his decision to stand down, means that American
:30:02. > :30:05.politics is losing one of its more entertaining characters.
:30:05. > :30:09.Earlier I spoke to the Congressman from Washington.
:30:09. > :30:16.Barney Frank, what do you think is going to determine the outcome of
:30:16. > :30:22.this election? The economy, if you economy continues on the upward
:30:22. > :30:26.path it is now on, then I think it is very likely President Obama will
:30:26. > :30:33.win. I think the right ward movement of the Republican Party in
:30:33. > :30:37.such a disorderly fashion edged to that. But I believe unless
:30:37. > :30:42.something drastically negative happens, that is not foreseen now,
:30:42. > :30:47.that derails this recovery we have begun, thaen President Obama will
:30:47. > :30:51.win. You have seen -- Then President Obama will win. You have
:30:52. > :30:57.seen Mitt Romney up close, why is he being driven to the right?
:30:57. > :31:01.of all, he's man of no conviction. He doesn't appear to have any
:31:01. > :31:05.particular issue to which he is deeply attached. What has happened
:31:05. > :31:11.is the Republican Party as a whole has moved to the right. Exactly why
:31:11. > :31:16.I'm not sure. But the Republican Party in America today is the most
:31:16. > :31:20.right-wing, ideolgically, unified entity, pretty far from the centre,
:31:20. > :31:26.that we have ever seen in America. It is extraordinary. You see in the
:31:26. > :31:30.house of representatives where a mainstream Conservative is being
:31:30. > :31:33.frequently repudiated by a right- wing caucus that won't co-operate
:31:33. > :31:40.with him. You see this extraordinary movement to the right,
:31:40. > :31:46.unlike anything we have seen in America politics. Romney moves
:31:46. > :31:49.easily with no convictions to weight him down. What is baffling
:31:49. > :31:52.for us, is why is this happening? Part of it may be the media, we
:31:53. > :31:58.have this issue in America, I don't know if it is true elsewhere, where
:31:58. > :32:00.the most active people in our political element live in parallel
:32:00. > :32:05.media universes. The white and left-wing are getting very
:32:05. > :32:08.different sources of information, and they very reinforcing. Let me
:32:08. > :32:12.ask you about a liberal matter, David Cameron, a Conservative Prime
:32:12. > :32:17.Minister in this country, has endorsed the idea of gay marriage.
:32:17. > :32:23.He wants to see it happen in this country, can you ever see President
:32:23. > :32:27.Obama endorsing such a thing? it is nice to see Mr Cameron giving
:32:27. > :32:30.the Lib Dems something, certainly they haven't got a lot out of that
:32:30. > :32:35.alliance. I ges this is one of the things they get a wedding present,
:32:35. > :32:44.as it were. President Obama is moving in that direction. Earlier
:32:44. > :32:48.this year he took a very important step on behalf of gay marriage. In
:32:48. > :32:51.America marriage is not delayeded by law, state by state, we have had
:32:51. > :32:57.this terrible law on the books saying even if state allows
:32:57. > :33:01.marriage the federal Government won't recognise it. That is the
:33:01. > :33:05.major obstacleing in terms of denying benefits. The President
:33:05. > :33:09.repudiated that law, and went to the same things saying it is so
:33:09. > :33:13.constitutional he won't defend it in court. He is clearly moving in
:33:13. > :33:18.the right direction. Electoral considerations are a factor. I
:33:18. > :33:22.expect before he's through being President, he will have endorsed
:33:22. > :33:30.the idea of siem-sex marriage. are planning to get married and
:33:30. > :33:39.leave politics. How is life going to change? I do plan to leave
:33:40. > :33:45.Congress, I plan to do a lot of reaching out. I won't do any
:33:45. > :33:49.fundraising, won't have to march in any more parades. A highly-
:33:49. > :33:53.overrated activity, I must tell you, if you are a politician. I will
:33:53. > :34:03.have more time, I expect to spend a lot of my time talking and writing
:34:03. > :34:04.
:34:04. > :34:08.about issues. To some extent doing the fun politics not the stressful
:34:08. > :34:14.parts. Will it be a relief not trying to persuade people to vote
:34:14. > :34:20.for you? Absolutely. I am not by nature Mr Congeniality. And the
:34:20. > :34:26.need to be nice to people, of whom I really do not think very much,
:34:26. > :34:30.goes away and I will not miss it. Barney Frank, thank you.
:34:30. > :34:34.The most powerful, certainly the most visibly powerful job in
:34:34. > :34:38.British broadcasting is up for grabs. Mark Thompson, one time
:34:38. > :34:43.Newsnight producer, before it all went wrong, has finally named the
:34:43. > :34:50.rough date of his departure from the Director General office. The
:34:50. > :34:54.headship of the organisation will be filled by someone chosen by the
:34:54. > :34:58.BBC Trust after the Olympic Games. There is plenty to do.
:34:58. > :35:08.Everybody loves to catch up on the iPlayer. So here's another chance
:35:08. > :35:10.
:35:10. > :35:15.to see the career of the BBC DJ. The BBC rank and file have been
:35:15. > :35:18.following Mark Thompson, more or less willingly, since 2004. He
:35:18. > :35:21.arrived as the corporation was reeling over the Hutton Report,
:35:21. > :35:27.which criticised the BBC's coverage of the intelligence background to
:35:27. > :35:31.the Iraq war. Relations with the Tory-led
:35:31. > :35:35.Government appear cordial now, the Murdoch empire is the new media
:35:35. > :35:45.bogeyman. Some analysts believe the BBC was bounced into a poor deal on
:35:45. > :35:48.
:35:48. > :35:54.the license fee. What would Thompson and his critics
:35:54. > :35:59.consign to room 101. Probably threats to niche radio stations,
:35:59. > :36:03.including six music, which sue the now reprieved channel's surge in
:36:03. > :36:07.popularity. Some critics might say a lot of political and other
:36:07. > :36:12.capital was expended over relocating staff and programmes
:36:12. > :36:18.around the country. Then there were prank phone calls by hugely well
:36:18. > :36:22.paid stars. As well as a crocodile of BBC managers paid more than the
:36:22. > :36:25.Prime Minister. On the down side Mark Thompson seemed to have been a
:36:25. > :36:28.bit slow to realise there was going to be public reaction to the level
:36:28. > :36:37.of pay, once the credit crunch had happened. They seemed to be a bit
:36:37. > :36:46.slow to react to that. The levels of pay of top executives.
:36:46. > :36:51.Those who had hymn-marked Thompson - - like Mark Thompson say he has
:36:51. > :36:58.overseen well watched programmes. In addition, polls show the BBC is
:36:58. > :37:02.popular and trusted. So what does the new DG have to do?
:37:02. > :37:07.The next director-general needs to understand three very, very
:37:07. > :37:12.important things, that the BBC of enormous, cultural, economic and
:37:12. > :37:18.democratic significance. And that its three greatest responsibilities,
:37:18. > :37:21.is the origin nation of British programmes, investing in original
:37:21. > :37:24.British programmes, secondly, original British talent. Bringing
:37:24. > :37:28.forward the next creative talent from the next generation. But most
:37:28. > :37:35.important of all, to be a trusted and reliable source of news and
:37:35. > :37:40.information. The Voice is one of Mark Thompson's
:37:40. > :37:45.parting gifts to the BBC audience. Sometimes it feels like TV is just
:37:45. > :37:55.one big talent show. Now one of the biggest gigs of all is up for grabs.
:37:55. > :37:56.
:37:56. > :38:00.With us now is my guests. You have actually written your own job
:38:00. > :38:07.apgaigs of your manifesto for the job -- application for your
:38:07. > :38:11.manifesto for the job, what would you do? Have nothing to d with Sir
:38:11. > :38:15.Peter basiljet, the man behind Big Brother and a highly discredible
:38:15. > :38:20.person. I would hope the BBC would have fewer people and fewer
:38:20. > :38:25.stations and go upmarket a bit. The reason for that is I think it has
:38:25. > :38:29.drifted from the raison d'etre, from the BBC, which is to do things
:38:29. > :38:35.that other broadcasters don't do, and take it back to the ideals.
:38:35. > :38:41.that ever going to be rauner? It is not an uncommon view? -- a runner?
:38:41. > :38:45.It is not an uncommon view? That is going to happen, if you go too far,
:38:45. > :38:49.you lose the raison d'etre for the license fee, it depends on the fact
:38:49. > :38:53.that the BBC is popular with broad appeal. The new director-general
:38:53. > :38:57.needs three things, to articulate a clear strategic vision for the
:38:57. > :39:02.organisation, he needs to restore the self-confidence of the BBC, and
:39:02. > :39:06.fight its corner. This is a world brand. This is a popular much-loved
:39:06. > :39:10.British institution. And most lefson, it should be much ease --
:39:10. > :39:15.Leveson, it should be much easier to do that. What is your sense of
:39:15. > :39:19.the job? It is not a job I want, unlike qent tin. I don't know if he
:39:19. > :39:27.does want it? I'm serious about it. You would have done it very well in
:39:27. > :39:32.1920, it is a much harder job to do now. It is a tricky thing to defend
:39:32. > :39:39.the license fee. However it is still very goodle value, �2.80,
:39:39. > :39:44.less than a pint a week. I wonder if we are making aic about
:39:44. > :39:54.assumption here, Mark Thompson will have -- a big assumption here, Mark
:39:54. > :39:54.
:39:54. > :39:58.Thompson has been there eight years. The next one will serve to 2020,
:39:59. > :40:01.will the BBC still be around. will be more discussions at the end
:40:01. > :40:04.of the year about the charter review, there is a strong argument
:40:04. > :40:08.for the license fee, incredible value. The best broadcasting
:40:08. > :40:11.organisation in the world. Lock at the other countries and value for
:40:11. > :40:15.money. That case needs to be remade, and he have generation. The BBC
:40:15. > :40:21.should be making it. It needs a change in governance in order to do
:40:22. > :40:27.it proper low. It makes it harder to justify itself. I'm a right-wing
:40:27. > :40:33.supporter of the BBC. It shoots itself in the foot by being so
:40:33. > :40:37.fatastically politically correct. By this inbred, liberalism, that
:40:37. > :40:41.Andrew Marr has identified, and being well off the public opinion
:40:41. > :40:46.on things like Europe. That is what drives right-wingers like me mad. I
:40:46. > :40:51.fear that the BBC has lost the Conservative Party on that. On the
:40:51. > :40:55.other hand, a lot of people are enjoying BBC programmes, I'm not
:40:55. > :40:59.here to talk about political bias. Some of which you may have made?
:40:59. > :41:03.make programmes for all broadcasters. What I'm grateful to
:41:04. > :41:07.the BBC for, you can make the programmes you can't make elsewhere
:41:07. > :41:12.with them. You get the option to make the best kind of programmes.
:41:12. > :41:16.The BBC raises the standard for the industry generally. The other
:41:16. > :41:20.broadcasters would say thank God for the BBC
:41:20. > :41:24.There are big in their offering. The coverage of the law courts is
:41:24. > :41:32.lamentable. This is something the press no longer does, the printed
:41:32. > :41:36.press has given up on reporting of the law courts. That is an ar why
:41:37. > :41:41.where the BBC could -- that is an area where the BBC could jump in.
:41:41. > :41:44.I'm giving you an area that the BBC could pick up some of the public
:41:44. > :41:49.service stuff. Let's talk more about the license fee mechanism,
:41:49. > :41:52.you say there will be an argument about whether it survives or not.
:41:52. > :41:57.Can you possibly survive when people are watching television in
:41:57. > :42:01.so many different ways on so many different device, much of it among
:42:01. > :42:06.young people? This is why it has to be doing things that other
:42:06. > :42:13.broadcasters don't do. You have support this tax as a right-winger?
:42:13. > :42:21.I support the idea of the BBC. You have to wrench it back, pair it
:42:21. > :42:26.down -- pear it down. On BBC 3 there was a great show called Our
:42:26. > :42:30.War, about soldiers in Afghanistan, made from their own footage, it was
:42:30. > :42:35.a fantastic programme. I think one of the very important reasons that
:42:35. > :42:45.BBC is there, is because it introduces a whole new audience to
:42:45. > :42:52.public service broadcasting. Will you defend Snog, Mario Avoid, Sun
:42:52. > :42:57.Sea and Suspicious parents. I'm not here to defend the BBC. BBC Three
:42:57. > :43:01.I'm talking about. There is fantastic comedy on BBC Three, it
:43:01. > :43:07.is the place where new comedy talent gets an airing in this
:43:07. > :43:10.country. To take Ben Bradshaw's argument, if I understood it
:43:10. > :43:15.correctly. Unless the BBC is clearly serving vast numbers of
:43:15. > :43:22.people you can't justify the license fee. That is a reasonable
:43:22. > :43:26.argument, I'm a bit of a captain blyth here, I don't care about the
:43:27. > :43:35.-- Captain Blyth here, I don't care about ratings. My argument is
:43:35. > :43:41.really good programmes and a return to elite imism will bring it in.
:43:41. > :43:47.agree with qintism and -- with you. Although Mark Thompson said there
:43:47. > :43:52.would be no salami slicing, we need a clearer strategic vision of how
:43:52. > :43:55.big. Asking the big questions, what should the BBC be doing. It is much
:43:55. > :44:01.easier to make the justification from there about the license fee.
:44:01. > :44:08.It is easy to say all of this, and when you look at the mere
:44:08. > :44:13.suggestion that the Asian network be cut and other channels and it
:44:13. > :44:17.runs. It needs an outsider, none of your telemates, and someone who
:44:18. > :44:22.comes from the liberal London outsiders, but it is someone who
:44:22. > :44:27.comes in and says you have to change. The new chairman of the
:44:27. > :44:33.trust gets this, he's not a member of my party but he gets it. They
:44:33. > :44:38.will ensure it. The job needs to be broken up, so
:44:38. > :44:43.there is an editor in chief, to do the other stuff. I'm bad at the
:44:43. > :44:48.business stuff. Jo it is important to make
:44:48. > :44:53.programmes people actually want to watch. You seem to be defining
:44:53. > :44:56.quality as shows that you approve of. My personal definition of
:44:56. > :45:01.quality is shares that a wide range of people enjoy and think areed
:45:01. > :45:05.good. That is what the BBC delivers. You are a ratings waller. It is not
:45:05. > :45:09.just that, ratings are important, you are in newspapers, if people
:45:09. > :45:16.don't buy your paper they are not enjoying it? The BBC not a
:45:16. > :45:20.newspaper. That is the great danger. I think the BBC is in the business
:45:20. > :45:24.of making the best possible programmes it can make. If it makes
:45:24. > :45:29.the best possible programmes people will watch them? We haven't talked
:45:29. > :45:35.about the salaries, and the BBC salaries. I'm not going to mention
:45:36. > :45:42.you Paxman. You don't know. They are well out of kilter.
:45:42. > :45:49.person you are so critical about it, Peter did raise it in the
:45:49. > :45:55.interviews. Saying they were slow in coming to that. The VG can't be
:45:55. > :45:57.paid the same as Mark Thompson? That man over there gets �56,000
:45:57. > :46:02.for a backbench member of parliament, that is what they
:46:02. > :46:07.should be looking at. You are running a global organisation with
:46:07. > :46:15.60,000 people. You have to pay them a proper wage. It is highly
:46:15. > :46:20.imbowlic you need to bring it down. It really needs a bloke from
:46:20. > :46:25.Hereford? It hope help. To leave you on an elevated note as
:46:25. > :46:35.witnessed from the International Space Station, NASA has just let us
:46:35. > :47:10.
:47:10. > :47:14.see what the astronauts saw. A much cloudier night tonight means
:47:14. > :47:20.it is nothing like as cold as last night. First thing there won't be
:47:20. > :47:24.the chill in the air, no unshine either. Skies will brighten after a
:47:24. > :47:29.damp start, turning destroy and fine across Cumbria. In the north-
:47:29. > :47:34.east temperatures hitting the teens. We always keep a bit more cloud
:47:34. > :47:37.across southern most counties, even here temperatures are above average
:47:37. > :47:42.at 10-14. Sunshine here and there, particularly to the east of the
:47:42. > :47:45.hills. To the east of the moors and the mountains, in Wales they could
:47:45. > :47:51.see sunshine, temperatures really jumping up in the sunshine. Where
:47:51. > :47:55.it is cloudy on the west coast, temperatures will stick at 10-11.
:47:55. > :47:59.Eastern parts of Northern Ireland will be having some fun, dry and
:47:59. > :48:04.breezy. A strong wind persists across northern Scotland. The
:48:04. > :48:08.outbreaks of rain should fizzle out. In the far north-east temperatures
:48:08. > :48:12.could jump up, up to 189 in Aberdeenshire. Wednesday sees more
:48:12. > :48:17.of the same, most places dry, one change on Wednesday, perhaps a bit
:48:17. > :48:23.more sunshine returning to southern most counties of England. North-
:48:23. > :48:26.east Scotland will see the lion's share of sunshine on Wednesday.