:00:12. > :00:16.Tonight, who is fit to run the biggest city in Britain? Whoever it
:00:16. > :00:20.is will enjoy the biggest personal mandate of any politician in Europe,
:00:20. > :00:25.apart from the President of France. In tonight's live debate, Boris
:00:25. > :00:28.Johnson, the sitting mayor, and notorious cyclist, faces off
:00:28. > :00:33.against Ken Livingstone, the man who had the job before him, and now
:00:33. > :00:39.wants it back. Brian Paddick, the Lib Dem contender, and one-time
:00:39. > :00:42.senior policeman. And the Green candidate, and former deputy mayor,
:00:42. > :00:52.Jenny Jones. Over the next 45 minutes, they will tell us why they
:00:52. > :00:57.are worthy of the job. There must be a temptation, if you
:00:57. > :01:01.live in Bangor or Bonar Bridge, or Brighton, to think that whoever
:01:01. > :01:06.occupies the squished glass sphere of City Hall, on the south shore of
:01:06. > :01:09.the Thames, is an irrelevance. Lucky you, many a Londoner might
:01:09. > :01:12.say. But consider these facts, London has a bigger population than
:01:12. > :01:15.many member states of the European Union. It is the seat of the
:01:15. > :01:18.national parliament, the site of this summer's Olympic Games, home
:01:18. > :01:24.to more rich people than anyone else in the country, yet the
:01:24. > :01:29.setting for some truly awful social problems. 5.4 million people can
:01:29. > :01:38.vote for the London mayor, 34,000 people in rural Oxfordshire voted
:01:38. > :01:43.for David Cameron. The London mareoral election -- mayoral
:01:43. > :01:49.elections matter, and they will control over policing, and house
:01:49. > :01:52.anything Britain. There are many candidates, but the four we have
:01:52. > :01:56.invited to debate are here. We will hear from the other candidates
:01:56. > :02:00.later in the programme. Now a few minutes ago, the four
:02:00. > :02:02.candidates here tonight had to decide the order in which they will
:02:02. > :02:08.make their opening 90-second statements.
:02:08. > :02:14.Each had to select a very tasteful, numbered Olympic Games mascot,
:02:15. > :02:20.under the guidance of Jackie Murphy, the pearlly Queen of Hackney. By a
:02:20. > :02:25.process almost as Intelable as the sub lementry voting arrangement,
:02:25. > :02:29.the first speaker is Jenny Jones. She represents the Green Party, she
:02:29. > :02:34.shot to political attention, when she was selected to the inaugural
:02:34. > :02:38.London Assembly, then rows to be Deputy Mayor of London, one of the
:02:38. > :02:44.most senior Greens in the country. If things don't work, she can
:02:44. > :02:49.return to her one-time occupation of archaeologist.
:02:49. > :02:52.The green vision for London is of a more affordable, equal, and happy
:02:52. > :02:56.city. I want this election to be about the issues that Londoners
:02:56. > :03:00.really care about, and also worry about, on a day-to-day basis. I
:03:00. > :03:03.want to make housing more affordable. I want to get more of
:03:03. > :03:08.London's families out of poverty, and take real action on the growing
:03:08. > :03:14.pay gap. I want to make sure that every young Londoner has a job, or
:03:14. > :03:18.an apprenticeship. I want to create a transport strategy that focuses
:03:18. > :03:23.on affordable fares, reducing congestion, tackling air pollution,
:03:23. > :03:26.investing in infrastructure, and making the streets safer for all
:03:26. > :03:30.road users, particularly pedestrains and cyclists. I want
:03:30. > :03:36.City Hall to provide real support for the capital's small businesses,
:03:36. > :03:41.and rebuild trust between the police and communities. Getting
:03:41. > :03:45.officers from out behind their desks and stopping cuts to
:03:45. > :03:49.community police I know how City Hall works.
:03:49. > :03:52.I have held both mayors to account on behalf of London. I'm standing
:03:52. > :03:55.for mayor because I believe London needs fresh and radical ideas, and
:03:55. > :03:59.a new kind of politics. By voting for me as mayor, and just as
:03:59. > :04:05.importantly, voting Green for the assembly elections, together we can
:04:05. > :04:11.make the difference. Jenny Jones, thank you. Well now,
:04:11. > :04:15.Brian Paddick spent 30 years at the Metropolitan Police, ending his
:04:15. > :04:19.career as Deputy Assistant Commissioner. He's a repeat
:04:19. > :04:23.offender in the mayoral elections, having tried unsucksfully four
:04:24. > :04:28.years ago. He was voted top of the list -- unsuccessfully four years
:04:28. > :04:32.ago. He's top of the list the Liberal Democrats would like to see
:04:32. > :04:39.in the House of Lords. In August last year, we saw the worst riots
:04:39. > :04:44.in London we have seen for over a century. Street crime, burglary,
:04:44. > :04:49.knife crime, is all increasing at an alarming rate. The mayor is now
:04:49. > :04:52.the police and crime commissioner for London. The mayor alone decides
:04:52. > :04:57.what the priorities are for the police, what the budget is for the
:04:57. > :05:02.police, the mayor alone holds the police to account. Who would you
:05:02. > :05:06.rather be in charge of policing in London? Someone with no experience
:05:06. > :05:11.at all, or somebody like me, who has 30 years of experience of
:05:11. > :05:16.policing the streets, starting off as a constable on the beat, and
:05:16. > :05:19.ending up, as Jeremy has said, as one of the most senior officers at
:05:19. > :05:24.New Scotland Yard. Yes I'm passionate about London's buses and
:05:24. > :05:28.trains, he use them every day. And yes, I'm passionate about making
:05:28. > :05:34.sure every Londoner has a decent place to live that they can
:05:35. > :05:39.genuinely afford. But the number one issue, for Londoners, is crime
:05:39. > :05:43.and policing. I am the only candidate who knows how to reform
:05:43. > :05:47.the Metropolitan Police, to get Londoners and the police standing
:05:47. > :05:50.together against the criminal, and to make London safer, permanently
:05:51. > :05:55.safer. Brian Paddick thank you.
:05:55. > :05:58.Now, Ken Livingstone, Red Ken, as he once was, has already had the
:05:58. > :06:02.mayor's job for two terms and been MP for Brent. He's the man behind
:06:02. > :06:06.the Congestion Charge, designed to deter people from driving in
:06:06. > :06:12.central London, he's almost certainly world famous for his
:06:12. > :06:16.passionate devoting to gardening and the rearing of newts! Thank you
:06:16. > :06:20.Jeremy. These are the work economic times for 80 years, the first duty
:06:20. > :06:23.of the mayor is to see what they can do to make life that bit more
:06:23. > :06:26.tolerable and affordable for Londoners. The single most
:06:26. > :06:29.important way in which you can do something, is to cut the fares. We
:06:29. > :06:34.have the highest fares in the world. They are twice what they are in
:06:34. > :06:40.Paris or Berlin. In a sense, fares in this country become a Stealth
:06:40. > :06:46.tax, and at the moment, the surplus on the fares accounting in
:06:46. > :06:50.Transport for London is �338 million. I intend to put �269
:06:50. > :06:55.million back into Londoners' pocket, where they can spend it on local
:06:55. > :06:59.goods and services helping the local economy. That means the
:06:59. > :07:08.difference between Boris Johnson and myself if you live in zone 1 or
:07:08. > :07:10.2, you will be �1,000 better off if you live in zone 6. I'm also
:07:10. > :07:14.reinstating the Education Maintenance Allowance, it went to
:07:14. > :07:18.the poorest families struggling to do the best of themselves. Getting
:07:18. > :07:20.back the �30 a week, working with the colleges, they have funds they
:07:20. > :07:25.can use for that, and the universities, that is crucial. The
:07:25. > :07:28.other thing we have here in this city is horrendously high levels of
:07:28. > :07:34.electricity prices, we will establish an energy Co-op, so
:07:34. > :07:37.people can buy their energy via an offshoot of Transport for London,
:07:37. > :07:42.because Transport for London, running the tube, buys it at half
:07:42. > :07:46.the price domestic consumers do. Everybody in London can save �120 a
:07:46. > :07:51.year, year after year, cutting their energy bill.
:07:51. > :07:55.Boris Johnson, is a reformed journalist, and one-time MP for
:07:55. > :07:58.Henley-on-Thames. He has been Mayor of London since 2008, his most
:07:58. > :08:03.lasting memorial, he didn't come up with the idea in the first place,
:08:03. > :08:07.are the thousands of hire bicycles all over the city. The despair of
:08:07. > :08:12.hairdressers, he outraged many that declaring that Ping-Pong, or wiff-
:08:12. > :08:17.waff, was invented in Britain. election is about trust, and who
:08:17. > :08:24.has the best plans to lead London out of recession. Get real value
:08:24. > :08:27.from the Olympics, and get Londoners into jobs. It is because
:08:27. > :08:33.times are so tough that we have to be honest with people about where
:08:33. > :08:37.the money is coming from, and where it is going to be spent. And it is
:08:37. > :08:40.partly because we have chopped some of the more Baroque, old fashioned,
:08:40. > :08:44.loony left extravagance, that we have been able to put the money
:08:44. > :08:49.where it counts. Cutting council tax, making London ever safer, in
:08:49. > :08:53.spite of what Brian says, with another 1,000 police all together,
:08:53. > :08:56.than there were when I was elected, now another 2,000 in the safer
:08:57. > :09:04.neighbourhood teams. Building record numbers of new homes,
:09:04. > :09:08.affordable homes for Londoners. Modernising our transport systems,
:09:08. > :09:14.so we not only cut delays, but we can now use new technology to take
:09:14. > :09:20.out cost, and hold fares down, in an affordable and sustainable way.
:09:20. > :09:22.These investments will not only create 200,000 jobs, they will
:09:22. > :09:25.build the platform for future growth and prosperity for all. It
:09:25. > :09:30.is because we have been running London responsibly, that I can get
:09:30. > :09:33.the best deal from Government. And above all, I don't want to see
:09:33. > :09:37.London lurch back to the arrogance, the waste and broken promises of
:09:37. > :09:42.the past. I want a mandate to take London forward, I hope you will
:09:42. > :09:47.vote for me, Boris Johnson, on May 3rd.
:09:47. > :09:50.Let's discuss all these subjects, if we have time. We have certainly
:09:50. > :09:54.got yawning seconds, minutes, in front of us. Boris Johnson, the
:09:54. > :09:57.first thing you mentioned there, is it was the economy, and I imagine
:09:57. > :10:03.you are thrilled that your friend George Osborne took your advice and
:10:03. > :10:06.cut the top rate of tax. But I just wonder, why, in a city so radically
:10:06. > :10:12.polarised between the very rich and the rather poor, you actually
:10:12. > :10:17.wanted to do a favour for the rich? Well, you've got to be tax
:10:17. > :10:21.competitive across all London's rival economies. But, I think one
:10:21. > :10:25.of the most attractive things about the budget, from my point of view,
:10:25. > :10:30.is 97,000 people were lifted out of tax all together, under that budget.
:10:30. > :10:34.And as mayor, obviously I don't set, I'm not in charge of the Exchequer,
:10:34. > :10:39.I can't set the national budget. What I can do is bear down on the
:10:39. > :10:44.cost of living, with the taxes I have at my disposal. You wanted to
:10:44. > :10:52.cut the 50p rate didn't you? council tax under Livingstonely
:10:52. > :10:59.went up by �964 for a band, you can shake your head in dismay, it is
:10:59. > :11:04.true, �9 64 pound force a band D house, that money was wasted on all
:11:04. > :11:08.kinds of antics. For those tempted to vote for you, you were a
:11:08. > :11:15.lobbyist for cutting the 50p rate of tax, correct? Stick up for
:11:15. > :11:18.London, and the London economy. And I certainly think that you need to
:11:18. > :11:21.be tax competitive. But I have to tell you. Will you answer the
:11:21. > :11:25.question, you were in favour of it, weren't you? Of course I was.
:11:25. > :11:29.you. I have to tell you I'm pleased with what we have been able to do
:11:29. > :11:32.to cut tax for the poor in this society.
:11:32. > :11:36.Ken Livingstone? He's absolutely right, he campaigned relentlessly
:11:36. > :11:42.to cut the top rate of tax for the richest 1%. Half a million
:11:42. > :11:46.pensioners in this city will pay, on average, �83 more to fill that
:11:46. > :11:49.gap. The Government can't borrow any more, if you cut tax for one
:11:49. > :11:52.group, it goes to another. All you have done is shift the balance of
:11:52. > :11:56.the burden to poorer people. Let's be clear where you are coming from,
:11:56. > :11:59.hang on a second. Where you are coming from, you have stated
:11:59. > :12:04.publicly that the international financial system kills more people
:12:04. > :12:11.in a year than the whole of World War II? You still believe that?
:12:11. > :12:14.That was about 20 years ago. It was about 12 years ago? I didn't know
:12:14. > :12:20.you hadn't grown up then? When you actually look at the impact that
:12:20. > :12:24.the financial system has on the poorest of society, when you get,
:12:24. > :12:32.in places like Argentina or parts of Africa, the infant mortality
:12:32. > :12:34.rate is absolutely shocking. They are not my figures, they are
:12:34. > :12:39.UNESCO's figures. Brian Paddick, you are one of the parties in the
:12:39. > :12:43.coalition Government that did this favour in the very rich for cutting
:12:43. > :12:47.the 50p rate tax, are you proud of it? The group of measures this
:12:47. > :12:50.coalition Government has brought in, means the richest will be paying
:12:50. > :12:54.five-times more tax than is brought in by the 50p tax rate. To be
:12:54. > :13:02.honest with you, Jeremy, I don't really care whether it is a mansion
:13:02. > :13:06.tax, a tycoon tax, or a 50p rate of tax, provided those people with the
:13:06. > :13:09.broadest shoulders, provided those with the broadest shoulders bear
:13:09. > :13:15.the biggest burden, I don't really mind. The other thing we have to
:13:15. > :13:18.make sure is, is that we don't run down the financial services sector
:13:18. > :13:23.in London. It is a major contributor to the wealth of London.
:13:23. > :13:27.We do need to rebalance the economy by building up industry,
:13:27. > :13:31.manufacturing, but, all this banker-bashing, doesn't really do
:13:31. > :13:36.any good. What we have to make sure is the richest pay most tax. That's
:13:36. > :13:42.what this coalition Government is trying to do.
:13:42. > :13:46.Is it my turn to say. Jenny Jones, it is your turn, we know you are
:13:46. > :13:50.against cutting the 50p rate of tax, we know you are in favour of
:13:50. > :13:55.raising the Congestion Charge. Which would effect absolutely
:13:55. > :13:59.everybody, richest and poorest. Anyone who drives a vehicle.
:13:59. > :14:02.point is about the sort of economics that Boris is talking
:14:02. > :14:05.about, it is dinosaur economics, there is no creative thinking.
:14:05. > :14:09.Cutting the 50p tax was a ridiculous way of pandering to the
:14:09. > :14:12.rich. There is two ways of making London a healthier city in terms of
:14:12. > :14:16.the economy, that is, first of all, make sure there is more employed
:14:16. > :14:21.people, who can lift themselves out of poverty and benefits, and start
:14:21. > :14:27.paying back taxes. The second way, of course, is to make sure we give
:14:27. > :14:34.small and medium-sized businesses a real boost. That I totally agree
:14:34. > :14:37.with that. Who has been doing it? One thing the mayor can do to help
:14:37. > :14:43.pensioners, the point Ken was making, and the valuable thing,
:14:43. > :14:49.which is the 24-hour Freedom Pass, worth many, many hundreds of pounds.
:14:49. > :14:54.What is that? A 24-hour Freedom Pass is something no-one outside
:14:54. > :14:59.London, alas gets. Explain what it is? It gives free travel on the
:14:59. > :15:05.buses and tubes if you are over 60. I tell you this, every man or woman
:15:05. > :15:10.over 60, in this city, will get free travel, again, we will take
:15:10. > :15:16.off the age escalator that the Labour Government supported by you
:15:16. > :15:20.put us on, and we will restore the Freedom Pass for everybody over 60.
:15:20. > :15:25.Four years ago you promised to make it 24-7, because I promised to do
:15:25. > :15:29.that. I said we would do it on the trail, south Londoners have been
:15:29. > :15:35.left behind. You didn't do it. your watch, in the first few years,
:15:35. > :15:41.your administration met with the Tory majority of borough councils
:15:42. > :15:48.and reduced the age of the Freedom Pass to 66. We have 60 and 61-year-
:15:48. > :15:51.old people turning up to get their Freedom Pass and being turned away.
:15:51. > :15:57.We mustn't wrong wrangle and be unseemly. Would you like to
:15:57. > :16:04.apologise for calling him a liar yesterday, when you are paeing so
:16:04. > :16:07.civilised? I would, if he explained, after I had gone to a great deal of
:16:07. > :16:13.trouble, to point out after the last Hustings, which was the
:16:13. > :16:19.business Hustings, to point out to him that he, Ken Livingstone, was
:16:19. > :16:26.sadly mistake in his analysis of my tax arrangements, and that I had
:16:26. > :16:31.nothing like the service company that he has, to funnel payments
:16:31. > :16:35.through. I made that point politely in a gentleman low way, I said,
:16:35. > :16:39.listen, you are completely wrong, don't say it again. I didn't know
:16:39. > :16:44.whether to prevent a breach of the peace or arrest you for threatening
:16:44. > :16:48.behaviour in that lift yesterday. Brian I don't want to accuse you of
:16:48. > :16:55.exaggerating. There is a here, which you haven't apologised for
:16:55. > :16:59.calling him a lie, do you want to? No. -- A liar, do you want to?
:16:59. > :17:06.It is true. I have been called worse than that. The important
:17:06. > :17:09.political point here is one of hypocrisy, you are the person, Ken
:17:09. > :17:14.Livingstone, who argued that your precise words were, we should do
:17:14. > :17:18.awith all the scams, everyone should pay -- away with the scams,
:17:18. > :17:23.everyone should pay the same rate of income tax? Put me in tomorrow
:17:23. > :17:27.and I will do that. You chose in your personal life not to do that?
:17:27. > :17:33.On every penny I have earned I pay personal tax. I don't pay income
:17:33. > :17:39.tax on the money I used to employ other people, and no other business
:17:39. > :17:43.in London does, if you did, people would be unemployed. I employed
:17:43. > :17:49.four people over the last four years, I don't pay income tax on
:17:49. > :17:54.that, no business does. Every penny I took out of the company or my
:17:54. > :17:59.wife has taken out, we paid tax on. Boris Johnson has benefited for
:17:59. > :18:04.another �12,500, by getting the top rate of tax cut, because the
:18:04. > :18:07.�250,000 he earns on his second salary, I'm sorry. Like everybody
:18:07. > :18:13.who earns above the level with the higher rate tax, he benefits, of
:18:13. > :18:18.course he does. It is not a scheme that he devised to evade tax, or
:18:18. > :18:22.avoid tax, as you did. One of the few things Cameron has got right,
:18:22. > :18:27.he has banned members of the Government from holding second jobs.
:18:27. > :18:31.Boris Johnson earns �140,000 as mayor, and gets another �250,000
:18:31. > :18:34.from the Telegraph. I guarantee you the only income I have as mayor
:18:34. > :18:39.will be from the job for mayor. Nobody will offer you a newspaper
:18:39. > :18:43.column, what a surprise? He did write a column when he was mayor,
:18:43. > :18:47.he wrote one for the Independent, I'm probably the only human being
:18:47. > :18:51.who have read every single one of the former mayor's columns, I don't
:18:52. > :18:55.know what he was paid. It was very obvious reading those columns, why
:18:55. > :19:00.he didn't continue. I gave it up because I realised you couldn't do
:19:00. > :19:03.the job of writing a column and being mayor. Ken, we have discussed
:19:03. > :19:08.this before, I told you there were two options, you put yourself
:19:08. > :19:11.forward as a sole trader, or register yourself as a business.
:19:11. > :19:16.You have registered yourself as a business, and as a result of that
:19:16. > :19:20.avoided paying tax. Where as Boris Johnson and I have not. Brian you
:19:20. > :19:25.don't employ three other people, I did. If you employed three other
:19:25. > :19:27.people, your accountant would have said be a company. If you had
:19:27. > :19:32.employed three other people, it would have brought unemployment
:19:32. > :19:37.down, that is a good thing. Unof those is your wife? She worked very
:19:37. > :19:41.-- One of those is your wife? worked very hard, if you were stuck
:19:41. > :19:45.in an at particular with me for three years writing my
:19:45. > :19:49.autobiography, she deserves it. It's doing very well. You are
:19:49. > :19:52.standing there being high-minded? Why don't we end it with everyone
:19:52. > :19:56.publishing what they earn and pay in tax. Why not bring it out into
:19:56. > :20:00.the hope, why not do that. There is no more arguments. We can talk
:20:01. > :20:04.about some of the issues we all have in our manifestos. You will do
:20:04. > :20:08.that? I have published my tax affairs for the last two years, and
:20:08. > :20:13.let the public decide who is avoiding tax and who isn't. I have
:20:13. > :20:18.to be happy to say I pay colossal numbers in income tax. I would love
:20:18. > :20:22.to see the full details of the former mayor's accounts. You will
:20:22. > :20:29.publish your's as well? Whatever is necessary to publish, I will
:20:29. > :20:34.publish. Was that a yes or a no. I'm publish to -- to publish
:20:34. > :20:37.details of everything I have earned in the last four years, will you do
:20:37. > :20:40.that? Op course I will. - of course I will.
:20:40. > :20:49.Can we go on now to talk about something else. Let's talk about
:20:50. > :20:52.the riots. Ken Livingstone, rather remarkable
:20:52. > :20:57.these events, the most horrifying things that have happened in London
:20:57. > :21:02.for a good few years. You came in this programme, and you said that
:21:02. > :21:05.they were a revolt against the cuts. Do you believe that? I think, if
:21:05. > :21:09.you look at the studies that have been done now, the more detailed
:21:09. > :21:15.academic studies. Yes, there is a strong element of criminality,
:21:15. > :21:19.there is people who used their blackberries to go robbing, but all
:21:19. > :21:23.the academic studies done, with the passage of time, have said there
:21:23. > :21:28.was a sense of backlash, a sense of alienation, people saying there is
:21:28. > :21:35.one law for them and one law for us. That is not the cuts, they don't
:21:35. > :21:38.mention the cuts most of the reports? Two years into Mrs
:21:38. > :21:42.Thatcher's Government, increasing unemployment and cuts, we had riots
:21:42. > :21:44.that spread from Brixton throughout the rest of the country. You can
:21:44. > :21:47.condemn it, absolutely, let's try to understand it, I don't want it
:21:47. > :21:54.happening again. If I had been the mayor, I would have come back, not
:21:54. > :21:59.waited four days, I would have been back, and been on the first plane
:21:59. > :22:05.you are not seriously saying it wouldn't have happened if you were
:22:05. > :22:10.mayor? It might not have, Mark Dugg an's parents march today the Police
:22:10. > :22:15.Station, and there was no-one there, and nobody was there to meet them,
:22:15. > :22:19.and that sparked anger. I want to know why Boris didn't have someone
:22:19. > :22:23.there to meet them. I understand a former mayor playing politics, in
:22:23. > :22:27.an ideal world I wouldn't have been out of the country when those riots
:22:27. > :22:32.happened. As it was I came back as fast as humanely possible. I was
:22:32. > :22:37.about 300 miles from the nearest airport, in a camper van, on the
:22:37. > :22:41.top of a mountain in the west coast of canned dark I came back as fast
:22:41. > :22:45.as possible, we got on with the job of sorting it out. Working with the
:22:45. > :22:50.police to bring the whole thing under control. Of course, to get on
:22:50. > :22:56.with getting the funds and the regeneration money that was
:22:56. > :23:00.necessary to turn Croydon, Tottenham, and other places in
:23:00. > :23:04.London back. We have massive regeneration funds now. I saw you
:23:04. > :23:08.on the television and when you were asked if you were coming back, you
:23:08. > :23:13.said no you were not. We are going to drive forward investment in
:23:13. > :23:19.Croydon and Tottenham and other parts of London, so actually they
:23:19. > :23:21.will be more prosperous and have more jobs there. Can I say, if I
:23:21. > :23:26.was mayor, I would have been outside Scotland Yard, on the
:23:26. > :23:30.Sunday morning, after the riots, on the Saturday, next to the
:23:30. > :23:34.commissioner, surrounded by with community leaders, and the
:23:34. > :23:38.commissioner would say, with my authority, that he would clamp down
:23:38. > :23:41.hard the following day, and I and the community leaders would say,
:23:41. > :23:46.this is damaging the reputation of London, it is damaging the
:23:46. > :23:51.reputation of Tottenham. I have been to Tottenham recently, the
:23:51. > :23:54.traders there say trade is still down 50% because of the reputation
:23:54. > :23:58.Tottenham now has. That would have had an effect on people. How would
:23:58. > :24:05.you have behaved, Jenny Jones? think I would have gone there and
:24:05. > :24:08.tried to deal with the situation. But moving on, depravation. Do you
:24:08. > :24:12.think the police mishandled it? I think they did the best they
:24:12. > :24:16.could at the time, they didn't have enough officers or equipment. The
:24:16. > :24:22.fact is, of course it could have been done better, but at the time,
:24:22. > :24:26.hindsight is a very wonderful thing. Could I just say that deaf pri
:24:26. > :24:30.vaigs clearly paid deprivation clearly paid a part. And now the
:24:30. > :24:34.police have to get the trust of communities not only in Croydon,
:24:34. > :24:38.other places, they have to work hard. In 2001 I was the police
:24:38. > :24:42.commander in Brixton, the police shot an unarmed man, there was a
:24:42. > :24:45.peaceful demonstration two days later that turned into a riot, it
:24:45. > :24:51.wasn't hindsight, it was not learning from history. The police
:24:51. > :24:56.should have had sufficient resources on the ground Tottenham
:24:56. > :25:00.on Saturday night, to nip it in the bud. If the pictures beamed around
:25:00. > :25:03.the country was of police officers arresting looters, rather than
:25:04. > :25:06.standing by and letting them walk past, it wouldn't have spread
:25:06. > :25:09.anywhere else. Brian is completely right there. What completely went
:25:09. > :25:15.wrong on the first night, all police officers who were involved
:25:15. > :25:20.in it would accept this, what was a really a criminal event, was
:25:20. > :25:25.interpreted as a public order event. You could see it from the rockies,
:25:25. > :25:28.could you? In retrospect they should have been more robust on
:25:28. > :25:31.that evening. The problem the next day was the mayor wasn't there.
:25:31. > :25:36.Most people would say it was a great tribute to policing in London,
:25:36. > :25:42.and to the skill of the Met, that the whole thing was brought under
:25:42. > :25:46.control with very, very little loss of life, and injury. There were
:25:46. > :25:50.very brave officers who went out there, not enough of them, they put
:25:50. > :25:52.their lives on the line for us, they were let down by their senior
:25:52. > :25:55.officers, because there weren't enough officers there, with the
:25:55. > :25:59.right equipment, to deal with that situation on the night. Part of the
:25:59. > :26:02.problem here, although you said you wanted to get back, I saw you being
:26:02. > :26:06.interviewed on the second day of those riots, you said you weren't
:26:06. > :26:10.coming back. It was only when you came under pressure. You can't have
:26:10. > :26:16.seen me, I don't wish to accuse you of any kind of inaccuracy, you
:26:16. > :26:20.can't have seen me, I was nowhere near a camera. I remember what you
:26:20. > :26:24.said, that your coming back would be a reward for the rioters, I
:26:24. > :26:28.don't think they gave a dam. think your analysis is wrong.
:26:28. > :26:33.have made that point. The important question is, how do you stop them
:26:33. > :26:38.happening again, because in all the analysis, you have already told us
:26:38. > :26:43.how you will stop it. They have to have someone on their side, a mayor
:26:43. > :26:47.actively looking after things, not just the richest 1%. On your side
:26:47. > :26:51.of the riots. There is a huge discrepancy between the poor and
:26:51. > :26:56.rich in this city. It has got wider under you, Boris, you have
:26:56. > :27:01.increased the fares. It got massively wider under the Labour
:27:01. > :27:09.Government, who caused a huge. are both right, it got wider under
:27:09. > :27:15.Labour and more under the Tories. It got massively wider under your
:27:15. > :27:17.party and your mayoral time. have made it worse, you haven't
:27:18. > :27:24.helped. We have had to deal with the financial consequences of the
:27:25. > :27:29.mess that Labour left behind. I have had to deal with a black hole
:27:29. > :27:35.in transport, which has been very, very hard, and has meant some very,
:27:35. > :27:39.very serious cuts and retrenchments. Your first budget you presented to
:27:39. > :27:44.the assembly, on the paragraph page 70, admitting you inherited
:27:45. > :27:47.reserves of �1.5 billion, from my administration, it is in your own
:27:48. > :27:56.budget. It sounds accurate, we can all look it up, there must be
:27:56. > :28:02.people at home with that budget who can look it up. I left you �1.5
:28:02. > :28:06.billion. She's the former Deputy Mayor of Ken Livingstone, when she
:28:06. > :28:13.interjects that is where she's coming from. You know perfectly
:28:13. > :28:17.well, Ken, that every pound we have in our budgets is dedicated,
:28:17. > :28:25.allocated for investment, for bus routes, for improving the tube, you
:28:25. > :28:27.know perfectly well, your policies, I'm afraid, are extremely misguided
:28:27. > :28:32.and fraudulent. Brian Paddick has a serious point he wants to make,
:28:32. > :28:37.what is it? The research done by the Guardian and the LSE showed
:28:37. > :28:43.resentment towards the police was a major factor in fuelling the riots.
:28:43. > :28:47.Stop and search, you are four more times likely to be stopped and
:28:47. > :28:54.searched in London if you are black rather than white. There was a
:28:54. > :28:57.Commerce poll that showed high percentages of people didn't
:28:57. > :29:00.believe the police were on their side. If you have been robbed or
:29:00. > :29:03.burgled and you don't believe the police is on your side, who will
:29:03. > :29:06.you turn to. Unless we change the culture of the Metropolitan Police,
:29:06. > :29:10.get Londoners standing next to the police, against the criminal, we
:29:10. > :29:18.will have the potential for further riots in the future. I'm the only
:29:18. > :29:23.candidate who knows which levers to pull in the Met to get that changed.
:29:23. > :29:27.This is about trying to create some how a more harmonious city, those
:29:27. > :29:30.riots were the expression of a city that were not harmonious. You are
:29:30. > :29:33.not the right man to do that, when so much of the Jewish community
:29:33. > :29:39.wouldn't dream of voting for you? That is not true at all. I'm the
:29:39. > :29:43.mayor that actually, in every year I was mayor, anti-semetic attacks
:29:43. > :29:46.decreased. Even during the war in the Lebanon, in 2006, when anti-
:29:46. > :29:50.semetic attacks soared in the rest of Britain and across Europe, they
:29:50. > :29:58.didn't increase in this city. People see there is a mayor who is
:29:58. > :30:06.actually fair. You are the man who invite the Yusef Al Karadawi to
:30:06. > :30:12.come to Britain, a man who says to kill Israeli women, you depended
:30:12. > :30:16.his coming here? All I knew is the Sun had praised him as the true
:30:16. > :30:20.voice of Islam, because after 9/11 he appealed to Muslims to donate
:30:20. > :30:24.blood to the victims. Someone else on Newsnight interviewed him, he
:30:24. > :30:28.made absolutely clear, no Muslim should attack a homosexual, no
:30:28. > :30:31.Muslim should strike his wife, Muslims should not attack and carry
:30:31. > :30:35.out terrorists acts here. You are right he is on the side of the
:30:35. > :30:40.Palestinians in the war. He did say it to Newsnight, he said Israeli
:30:40. > :30:45.women are not like women in our society, they are militariseed, I
:30:45. > :30:49.consider this as an indication of the justice of Allah the almighty?
:30:49. > :30:55.Anyone saying to people do not attack cities in the west, that is
:30:55. > :30:59.wrong, no good Muslim is doing that, I'm up for dialogue with him.
:30:59. > :31:05.about the comment about many Jews not voting for you, because they
:31:05. > :31:10.were too rich? That is completely untrue. They made that up? Yes.
:31:10. > :31:14.you are like a bad 1970s comedian, you play to the audience, whoever
:31:14. > :31:17.you think has the most votes, and that is why you talked about the
:31:17. > :31:23.Conservative Party being riddled with it when you were talking about
:31:23. > :31:27.homosexuality. You just don't care. Brian, don't believe half a
:31:27. > :31:31.sentence taken out of context. I said isn't it wonderful the Tory
:31:32. > :31:36.Party is riddled with it, like everybody else. Is that the right
:31:36. > :31:40.words, riddled with it, I found it offensive, as a gay man. As a gay
:31:40. > :31:43.man you didn't come out and support me when I took that stance 30 years
:31:43. > :31:48.ago, neither did any gay person in the Tory Party, they were all
:31:48. > :31:53.silent, I was just reminding them, I'm delighted you can now have
:31:53. > :31:57.openly gay Tories. That was then and this is now, you are creating
:31:57. > :32:00.division by saying that Islam should be a beacon for London.
:32:00. > :32:05.haven't said that. Excuse me, you are believing what is published by
:32:05. > :32:11.Andrews grew Gilligan in the Telegraph, who is broadly an add
:32:11. > :32:15.jubgt of Boris's campaign. I have never said that, every has heard me
:32:15. > :32:20.say, London is a beacon for tolerance within religions, I'm an
:32:20. > :32:22.aitist, I like a drink, I won't advocate this becoming a Muslim
:32:22. > :32:26.city. Boris Johnson, you have mentioned the fact that there are
:32:26. > :32:30.more policemen on the streets of London than there were when you
:32:30. > :32:34.took office, but there are fewer policemen than there were two years
:32:34. > :32:38.ago? The key relevant comparisons, there are more police on the street.
:32:38. > :32:44.There are fewer police now than there were two years ago? Let me
:32:44. > :32:48.tell you this, London, thanks to the efforts of this mayorality.
:32:48. > :32:52.it true or not? London is an island of high police numbers compared to
:32:52. > :32:58.the rest of the country. Is it true? It is certainly true that
:32:58. > :33:03.over the four years that numbers have gone up and down, they are now
:33:03. > :33:06.1,000 higher than they were when I was elected. That is in sharp
:33:06. > :33:09.contrast to everywhere else in the country, because of the budgets we
:33:09. > :33:14.have been able to get from Government, and the extra numbers
:33:14. > :33:17.we are able to put out there, we are able to continue. You accept
:33:17. > :33:21.they are lower than a number of years ago. We are able to continue
:33:21. > :33:26.to drive down crime with the extra resources. The reason police
:33:26. > :33:29.budgets have been under pressure, across this country is because of
:33:29. > :33:34.the financial shambles left by the last Labour Government, which you
:33:34. > :33:38.supported. Can we get back to police numbers. I would like to
:33:38. > :33:42.talk about police numbers. There was never a penny of money to cover
:33:42. > :33:47.everything, that is why I left. left a complete financial shambles.
:33:48. > :33:53.When I became mayor, there were 25,500, I left you a budget for
:33:53. > :33:56.32,000, over the last two years, no, Boris, let somebody else thought.
:33:56. > :34:06.This is nonsense. This isn't the bulling done club, we are supposed
:34:06. > :34:06.
:34:07. > :34:12.to let other people talk. We have We have the Olympics comes, we are
:34:12. > :34:20.a prime terrorist target, you are 5,000 police officers light. Hang
:34:20. > :34:26.on a second. May I interrupt. You cannot deny that crime has fallen
:34:26. > :34:32.under Boris Johnson? Absolutely, crime under those four years has
:34:32. > :34:36.fallen 4.5%, in my last year it was 6%. The agreed figure appears to be
:34:36. > :34:40.6%. Can you also confirm, as you said, that it was a lot easier to
:34:40. > :34:45.be mayor in your time, because at that time Government was pouring
:34:46. > :34:52.money at you? Yes, and we did a lot of things. But the idea you cut
:34:52. > :34:56.police, while burglaries are going up, while knife crime sup. 2,000
:34:56. > :35:04.extra knife offences. How do you know that when you left office?
:35:04. > :35:08.was building up, there were 25,000 when I came in, 23 2,000 when I
:35:08. > :35:11.left. The commissioner announced a couple of months ago, that he was
:35:11. > :35:16.taking another 1,000 officers off the street, and putting them into
:35:16. > :35:21.yet another specialist squad. We are forgetting about the basics of
:35:21. > :35:25.policing. Policing by consent in this country means that you have to
:35:25. > :35:31.have visible police, in uniform, on the streets to reassure the public.
:35:31. > :35:36.It means you have to have response teams, so if you dial 999, the
:35:36. > :35:39.police turn up within a reasonable time. Because so many officers have
:35:39. > :35:42.been funneled into these specialist squads, that service is
:35:42. > :35:47.deteriorating and the public is losing confidence as a result.
:35:47. > :35:50.Very quickly on that, two days ago you would have seen the crime
:35:50. > :35:53.manifesto, where we announced we are putting 2,000 more officers,
:35:53. > :36:02.taking them out of the squads you mentioned, putting them into
:36:02. > :36:05.frontline policing. You said that would be quick, that is enough.
:36:05. > :36:09.There is a general obsession with the numbers of police, which I
:36:09. > :36:14.think is completely wrong. Form should follow function. We should
:36:14. > :36:17.know what those police officers are doing. This mayor has actually
:36:17. > :36:20.taken 900 police staff out of the system, that means police officers
:36:20. > :36:24.are now going to be doing back room jobs, they will be in the call
:36:24. > :36:27.centres, they are going to be doing the jobs they are not trained for.
:36:27. > :36:30.That is completely wrong. You need a healthy police force, that has
:36:30. > :36:34.got the right amount of staff to the right number of police officers.
:36:34. > :36:39.And it's now lacking. We have a sort of shelf police officers with
:36:39. > :36:42.no real support. I disagree, vehemently with that. It is very
:36:42. > :36:45.important that you are cost effective, and that you get
:36:45. > :36:49.officers out on the frontline where people want. One of the things we
:36:49. > :36:53.have been able to do, by the way, is get 697 more officers on public
:36:53. > :36:59.transport, which is why crime on public transport is down 20% on the
:36:59. > :37:05.tube, 30% on the buses. You raise the subject of transport, you raise
:37:05. > :37:09.the subject of that. Let as talk about transport, Ken Livingstone,
:37:09. > :37:13.you are promising to cut fares, aren't you, both on the tubes and
:37:13. > :37:20.on the buses? And on the overland trains there. Can you tell us what
:37:20. > :37:23.the cost of that would be over four years? In the first year it is �268
:37:23. > :37:27.million, it is slightly increasing with inflation in the subsequent
:37:27. > :37:32.years, it is about �1 billion over four years. Where will you find it?
:37:32. > :37:38.It is simple, at the moment the surplus in the fares' account, it
:37:38. > :37:41.is �300 million, and is expected to be �338 million by the end of this
:37:41. > :37:45.financial year. Money currently earmarked for improvements? It is
:37:45. > :37:51.not. Of course it is. In the investment budget that Boris
:37:51. > :37:55.Johnson has set each year, he has junt pent it by a billion pounds. -
:37:55. > :38:00.- underspent it by a billion pounds. He doesn't chase things to make
:38:00. > :38:08.sure they are built. In both the years when Ken Livingstone broke
:38:08. > :38:16.his promises most flagrantly on fares n2005/06, putting them up RPI
:38:16. > :38:19.by 12.5 bears and 12.9%, in both -- 12.5% and 12.9%, he had bigger
:38:19. > :38:23.surplus than he identifies now. All that cash is dedicated to improving
:38:23. > :38:27.our bus service or improving the tube. What Ken Livingstone has to
:38:27. > :38:30.say, which business routes he would cut, which tube upgrade programme,
:38:30. > :38:35.which improvements on the tube he would cancel, or whether he would
:38:35. > :38:39.raise, as Jenny advocates, she's the only intellectually honest one
:38:39. > :38:45.who follows his policy s a vast new Congestion Charge. Or, would you
:38:45. > :38:47.put up, as you did before, would you whack up the council tax by a
:38:47. > :38:51.huge amount. Ken Livingstone has to answer that question, which is it
:38:51. > :38:58.to be? I will freeze the council tax for four years, you have been
:38:58. > :39:02.right to do so in these times to keep money in people's pockets. I
:39:02. > :39:09.won't have cash mounting in the fares accounts, I know the
:39:09. > :39:13.transport omissions, they want an expanding surplus. Not a single
:39:13. > :39:21.improvement would be curtailed? will start working on more. They
:39:21. > :39:25.take two or three years to come through. Can I get a word in.
:39:25. > :39:31.Livingstone says things he knows are not true. Do you honestly think
:39:31. > :39:34.that Boris Johnson, if he had cash he could use to reduce fares in the
:39:34. > :39:39.run up to an election, he wouldn't use it for that purpose.
:39:39. > :39:44.wouldn't have done if he read his own budget. You told me on BBC
:39:44. > :39:49.radio, on the Vanessa Show, that you had a bigger cash surplus when
:39:49. > :39:56.you were mayor than Boris Johnson, you didn't use it. I did, I cut the
:39:56. > :40:01.bus fares by 9%. In the year before the election. You put them up by 7%.
:40:01. > :40:04.What London Liberal Democrats are suggesting. I cut fares by a third.
:40:04. > :40:09.Quickly and then Jenny Jones. London Liberal Democrats are having
:40:09. > :40:13.realistic cuts to those people who can least afford to travel. It is
:40:13. > :40:17.all costed, and so we are going to have things. Cuts to those who can
:40:17. > :40:22.least afford to travel? Cuts in fares for those people who can
:40:22. > :40:27.least afford to travel. Jenny Jones? I want to thank Boris about
:40:27. > :40:31.his compliments about our policy, he did misrepresent it slightly.
:40:31. > :40:35.don't support your policy. We have the most radical transport agenda.
:40:35. > :40:40.These guys are generally saying you can't keep fares down and invest in
:40:40. > :40:43.the infrastruck tue, we are saying you can. You have to raise a bit --
:40:43. > :40:48.infrastructure, we are saying you can, you have to raise a bit more.
:40:48. > :40:52.We would keep fares below the cost of living for four years, and make
:40:52. > :40:57.the improvements get done, and make sure we have enough bus routes in
:40:57. > :41:02.London, we need some more. Boris Johnson, if I remember, you
:41:02. > :41:06.promised an end to strike, and a no-strike-deal, how is it going?
:41:06. > :41:10.I'm afraid, as you look at me with your supercilious way, it is
:41:10. > :41:14.absolutely true, we haven't been able to negotiate a no-strike-deal,
:41:14. > :41:18.for the good and simple reason, that the trades unions don't want
:41:18. > :41:23.it, I think they are wrong, they should be persuaded to do it. What
:41:23. > :41:29.we have been able to do is to take forward some very tricky
:41:29. > :41:34.modernisation of the tube. And that is what I want. I was asking about
:41:34. > :41:38.strikes, what about a thresholds in ballots? We did and have incurred
:41:38. > :41:42.strikes, partly because the threshold for ballots wasn't as
:41:42. > :41:47.high as it should be. There have been more strikes. Interestingly,
:41:47. > :41:54.Jenny, since you interjected a useful comment there. Actually, the
:41:54. > :41:58.number of people going up, the number of LU staff and RMT members
:41:58. > :42:05.going out on strike has fallen under my leadership, because people
:42:05. > :42:12.are getting more disaffected. have told us what you want to do.
:42:12. > :42:16.want to take London forward with autoation, and driverless trains, I
:42:16. > :42:20.know Ken Livingstone's pay masters won't like that. I want to ask a
:42:20. > :42:23.question, before we hear briefly from the other candidates, it is
:42:23. > :42:27.this. Ken Livingstone, if you were stuck in a lift with one of your
:42:27. > :42:32.three contestants here today, who would you like to be stuck with?
:42:32. > :42:41.Jenny Jones, I will be working closely with her if I'm lucky
:42:41. > :42:45.enough to get the job. It might be more entertaining to be in the lift
:42:45. > :42:53.with Boris Johnson, if only for comedy factor. I would like to be
:42:53. > :42:59.in a lift in Ken, in a friendly, cleejic way, just to get him
:42:59. > :43:03.acknowledge reality, to tell the truth about certain things. One
:43:03. > :43:07.of you would kill the other one without a doubt. Can I choose you
:43:07. > :43:12.to be in the lift with. I don't know you very well. No you can't!
:43:12. > :43:22.In the event that you don't fancy any of these four to be stuck in a
:43:22. > :43:25.
:43:25. > :43:31.lift with, there is a Trinity of other choices. Here they are.
:43:31. > :43:35.The main thing is to set London alight, I think the country needs
:43:35. > :43:40.to talk about politics, we need dialogue in politics, that is what
:43:40. > :43:44.is missing in London, especially after the riots last year. I think
:43:44. > :43:49.the solutions that have been proposed in terms of what needs to
:43:49. > :43:56.be done for London they are the wrong kind of solutions. I think
:43:56. > :44:01.when we talk about housing, we need a different approach of all London
:44:01. > :44:06.as one city, not just 33 local authorities.
:44:06. > :44:09.Of all the things to be discussed in this campaign, the one area for
:44:09. > :44:15.which the mayor has the greatest responsibility is transport, shiny
:44:15. > :44:18.red buses and cutting fares won't solve London's transport problems.
:44:18. > :44:23.35% of all journeys in London is done by private car, higher in the
:44:23. > :44:27.outer boroughs, yet people have to pay to park outside their own home,
:44:27. > :44:31.and can't stop at local shops for fear of a parking ticket. I want
:44:31. > :44:36.parking away from greedy councils and under one umbrella, only then
:44:36. > :44:40.can you have a truly integrated transport policy, including the
:44:40. > :44:43.motorists as well. Voters are disillusioned with the main
:44:43. > :44:46.political parties, they need fresh alternatives, which I can bring to
:44:46. > :44:49.this campaign. I resigned from my own job in the Department of Health,
:44:49. > :44:55.because of the shambles the coalition Government were making
:44:55. > :45:01.with the NHS reforms. I'm not a single issue candidate, as some
:45:01. > :45:06.independents have been in the past. I have sensible policies on all
:45:06. > :45:11.areas, transport, business and the economy. I want to remind people on
:45:11. > :45:16.the 3rd of May, they are voting for an individual leader in London,
:45:16. > :45:21.they don't have to vote for a party politician. Vote for someone who
:45:21. > :45:25.will fight for Londoners, not old party political battles. A final
:45:25. > :45:29.contribution from the studio. The question is this, 20 seconds or so.
:45:29. > :45:33.How would you raise the tone of this campaign during its next few
:45:34. > :45:40.weeks, Jenny Jones? It would be great if we could all be nice to
:45:40. > :45:44.each other, I hope it doesn't sound too wooly and liberal, we will be
:45:44. > :45:48.seeing a lot of each other. Brian Paddick? We have to start talking
:45:48. > :45:51.about policies, we have to talk about the very positive things that
:45:51. > :45:55.the London Liberal Democrats want to offer, and to remind Londoners
:45:55. > :45:58.that it is not just about voting for the mayor, it is also about
:45:58. > :46:02.voting for the assembly. Livingstone, do you want to raise
:46:02. > :46:06.the tone? I remember debating with Steve Norris on two elections when
:46:06. > :46:12.he was the Tory candidate, we discussed policy. All I would say
:46:12. > :46:19.to Boris, let me ask you this, get rid of Lynton Crosby, you brought
:46:19. > :46:26.in an attack dog from Australia. No-one in the public knows who he
:46:26. > :46:29.is? Is this your idea of raising never had this with Steve Norris,
:46:29. > :46:33.it has been personality attacks and smears, that is what Lynton Crosby
:46:33. > :46:38.has been brought in to do. I think we need a focus on what kind of
:46:38. > :46:42.mayor do you want. Raise the stone, how would you raise the tone?
:46:43. > :46:47.you want one that unites, whacks taxes up or cuts them. We should
:46:47. > :46:52.focus on the issue of investment, do you want a mayor that will
:46:52. > :46:56.invest in London in jobs and growth, or get the axe out. You are
:46:56. > :47:00.shameless? Finally, it is absolute lie serious, do you want a mayor
:47:00. > :47:04.who breaks his promises, or a mayor who keeps them, that is the choice.
:47:04. > :47:09.That is quite enough from all of us here. Quite enough from all of us
:47:09. > :47:11.here, I said. Details of all the candidates for London mayor are on
:47:11. > :47:21.the website, tomorrow night Kirsty will be here, until then, good
:47:21. > :47:43.
:47:43. > :47:46.will be here, until then, good Thankfully the last of the wild and
:47:46. > :47:49.wintry weather is on its way out. Still a pretty raw night across
:47:50. > :47:53.southern areas. A cloudy start in the morning. Hopefully the skies
:47:53. > :47:59.will brighten. Further north across the country, a lovely start to the
:47:59. > :48:02.day, plenty of sunshine with a steady thaw. It will stay across
:48:02. > :48:05.northern England, a vast improvement on today's winter
:48:05. > :48:10.Wonderland. Down across the Midland and southern England, after a
:48:10. > :48:14.cloudy start, things brightening up to some extent. For south western
:48:15. > :48:19.parts of England, Devon and Cornwall, a struggle, one or two
:48:19. > :48:25.showers here, and a breeze. A better day across Wales, a steady
:48:25. > :48:28.thaw of lying snow, temperatures 8- 10. For Northern Ireland, and
:48:28. > :48:32.indeed Scotland, things turning cloudy, with patchy rain turning up.
:48:32. > :48:37.No great amounts, it might be a cloudy, drab, end to the day. Most
:48:37. > :48:41.of the rain across Scotland to the far North West. Further ahead, as
:48:41. > :48:45.we get into Friday. A lot of cloud around across the country. Thickest
:48:45. > :48:49.across northern areas, with patchy rain. Further south, after a frosty
:48:49. > :48:53.start, it will tend to cloud over, but should stay mostly dry. Through
:48:53. > :48:57.much of the Easter weekend, there will be a fair bit of cloud.