:00:10. > :00:18.There was a cover up - but not by me, or my son. Rupert Murdoch gives
:00:18. > :00:21.his account of hacking at the News of the World. Someone took charge
:00:21. > :00:24.of cover-up. Which we were victim to and I regret.
:00:24. > :00:29.Now he's been accused of telling a "shameful lie" to Leveson by the
:00:29. > :00:32.man he has put in the frame. To discuss contrition and finger
:00:32. > :00:35.pointing, Anne Diamond, a victim of phone hacking, the MP who has
:00:35. > :00:38.dogged the Murdochs and the writer who thinks Rupert's a visionary.
:00:38. > :00:47.And in the land of the free the rise of crony capitalism. How the
:00:47. > :00:51.USA embraced a Soviet style rescue. On the worse day for the American
:00:51. > :00:56.economy since 1929 the recovery began of its most iconic industry.
:00:56. > :01:02.How that happened, tells us a lot about the way America will recover.
:01:02. > :01:05.And how the rest of the world might too. Did that We visit Chongqing in
:01:05. > :01:07.China, and the scene of the strange death of Neil Haywood. Actually
:01:07. > :01:17.happen. How did a communist party official
:01:17. > :01:20.
:01:20. > :01:24.turn an entire city into his own Good evening. Rupert Murdoch
:01:24. > :01:27.wreaked havoc at the Leveson Inquiry today, affectively accusing
:01:27. > :01:31.senior figures of a cover-up over phone hacking and hiding the truth
:01:31. > :01:35.from himself and his son. But, even as he was giving the thumbs up as
:01:35. > :01:40.he left the inquiry, one of those he apparently put in the frame hit
:01:40. > :01:45.back. Accusing Mr Murdoch of a shameful lie. So, how credible is
:01:45. > :01:51.Mr Murdoch's account that he and his son were innocents in the
:01:51. > :01:55.affair? For the flesh and blood Keith
:01:55. > :01:59.Rupert Murdoch, just for the film creation the basic question is the
:01:59. > :02:05.same. Is that really your idea how to run a newspaper. I don't know
:02:05. > :02:11.how to run a newspaper, I just try everything I can think of. Will
:02:12. > :02:16.Murdoch knows how to run newspapers, he owns 150 of them. But he made
:02:16. > :02:20.too little attention to the biggest - the News of the World. It was too
:02:21. > :02:25.late when he realised there was hacking going on, and then a cover-
:02:26. > :02:32.up. But by who? There were strong characters there. The person I'm
:02:32. > :02:41.thinking of is the friend of the journalist, drinking pal, and, is a
:02:41. > :02:48.clever lawyer, and forebade them to see their evidence, I mean
:02:48. > :02:53.statements reporter, that, this person forebade people to go and
:02:53. > :02:59.report to Mrs Brooks or James. Mrs Brooks is Rebecca, his protege
:02:59. > :03:02.and James is his son, the ousted heir apparent. The man who
:03:02. > :03:06.allegedly ran the cover-up is Tom Crone, the News of the World
:03:06. > :03:10.world's lawyer for years. Tonight, Mr Crone described the allegation
:03:10. > :03:15.as "a shameful lie", saying "it was perhaps no coin coincidence, Mr
:03:15. > :03:20.Murdoch had singleed him out alongside mile mile mile" the
:03:20. > :03:23.former editor. The same two people who point out his son's tofdz the
:03:24. > :03:29.Parliamentary Select Committee last year was inaccurate. Rupert Murdoch
:03:29. > :03:34.was asked whether he in fact wanted the truth buried. Some might say
:03:34. > :03:44.all this picture is consistent, with one of a desire to cover-up,
:03:44. > :03:47.
:03:47. > :03:54.rather than a desire to expose. sorry, I take that back. Excuse me.
:03:54. > :04:01.I'm very thick-skinned Mr Murdoch. Do not worry one moment. Leveson
:04:01. > :04:08.leaf wanted to know why Mr Murdoch hadn't asked the right questions.
:04:08. > :04:13.You would really want to know, what the hell was going on as you put it.
:04:13. > :04:17.Because the news media was your printing, was running there through
:04:17. > :04:24.your vains, somebody said about you? I have to admit that some
:04:24. > :04:33.newspapers are closer to my heart than others, but, I also have to
:04:33. > :04:37.say, that I failed. This was the moment last summer, when Rupert
:04:37. > :04:41.Murdoch gave his public display of confidence in the beleaguered
:04:42. > :04:48.Rebekah Brooks. Struggling to make their way across the street, the
:04:48. > :04:54.press mogul had become prey. What did he think now? Part of a game.
:04:54. > :05:02.What's the game? Harass people. You know, when I was harassed, I was
:05:02. > :05:07.trying to walk, all of ten yards across the street. I had another 20
:05:07. > :05:13.or so outside my apartment this morning. But part of the game, is
:05:13. > :05:23.harassment, intrusion, these are recurring themes in the behaviour
:05:23. > :05:23.
:05:23. > :05:30.of the press for decades. Would you not accept that? Yes. It can take
:05:30. > :05:34.many forms, but yes. And then there was the mos mos mos case, where a
:05:34. > :05:38.News of the World reporter threatened to publish pictures of
:05:38. > :05:44.two women, unless they co-operateed with the newspaper. Mr Leveson
:05:44. > :05:51.described that as "disturbing". He quoted the judge who awarded
:05:51. > :05:58.damages. I don't think Mr Justice, uses too strong a word as he
:05:58. > :06:03.describes it as a form of "blackmail". Apologise, I didn't
:06:04. > :06:09.read and I may agree with every word if I read it. But, it's a
:06:10. > :06:16.common thing in life, way beyond journalism, to, for people to say
:06:16. > :06:21.I'll scratch your back if you scratch my back. So it was a common
:06:21. > :06:25.thing in life, you scratch my back if I scratch your back. That's true,
:06:25. > :06:30.but it is interesting if you say that's no part of the implied deal
:06:30. > :06:40.in your relations with politicians over 30 years, Mr Murdoch, is that
:06:40. > :06:40.
:06:40. > :06:45.right? Yes, I don't ask any politician to scratch my back.
:06:45. > :06:50.That's a nice twist, but no, I'm nol falling for it.
:06:50. > :06:55.He's good reason to be guarded it is just revealed Ofcom is stepping
:06:55. > :07:00.up its investigation, into whether BSkyB is a fit and proper company
:07:00. > :07:04.to hold a broadcast license. It asked newsgroup to send more
:07:04. > :07:11.documents relating to phone hacking. It is the clearest sign yet, that
:07:11. > :07:15.misdeeds in the Murdoch press could jeopardise his entire empire Back
:07:15. > :07:22.at Leveson a lawyer foor the National Union of journalists said
:07:22. > :07:30.some Murdoch employees, too fearful to speech publicly had told of
:07:30. > :07:34.bullying. A journalist with six years of experience, "During my
:07:34. > :07:43.time at News of the World I experienced constant bullying, my
:07:43. > :07:48.editor two find fault" and so on. Clear evidence of clear culture of
:07:48. > :07:52.bullying. Why didn't she resign? The problem with that might be she
:07:52. > :07:54.needs a job. And that's actually been some of the evidence I
:07:54. > :07:58.received. Mr Murdoch said he'd thought the
:07:58. > :08:05.News of the World staff had been a happy crew. But then in his 40
:08:05. > :08:09.years of ownership, he neglect today keep in touch. In his words
:08:09. > :08:14."are blocked forever on his reputation ygsygs. With me is Anne
:08:14. > :08:19.Diamond, a victim of phone hacking by the News of the World, Labour MP,
:08:19. > :08:24.Tom Watson, a member of the culture select committee and author, Tom
:08:24. > :08:26.Bower, whose recent automatic biography was serialiseed in the
:08:26. > :08:34.Sun. Nobody from News International was available.
:08:34. > :08:37.Tom Watson, the attack, on the News of the World lawyer, and editor.
:08:37. > :08:41.Obvious motivation, they want to deflect. Is there anything more
:08:41. > :08:45.going on? They're fighting like rats in a sack. Now the Leveson is
:08:45. > :08:50.casting a spotlight on what went on at News International, they're all
:08:50. > :08:56.claiming it was somebody else's fault. Murdoch himself is very
:08:56. > :09:00.undignified. How credible, when you look at the massive payout, paid to
:09:00. > :09:05.Damilola Taylor, what do you think they were paying him for? For his
:09:05. > :09:09.silence, in my view. Looking, they deny that of course, about you Tom
:09:09. > :09:14.Bower, when you look at Murdoch today, and that attack, he made,
:09:14. > :09:22.and it then has been called a shameful lie, do you think it was a
:09:22. > :09:26.smart move on his behalf? No I don't, my feeling about him is he
:09:26. > :09:30.revolutionised the media here and invented Sky and all terpive, which
:09:30. > :09:34.the natives, the local newspaper barons, failed to do. He's gone
:09:34. > :09:38.wrong. Things have gone wrong, today was not a great day for him
:09:38. > :09:43.or the day for the press. But to just finger him as the guilty man,
:09:43. > :09:48.is wrong. There was a wrong, the whole culture was wrong. Just
:09:48. > :09:51.because the whole culture was wrong, doesn't mean he who sat at the head
:09:51. > :09:56.and set the tone for the organisation, that is who was
:09:56. > :10:01.actually in front of Leveson today. I wonder, Anne, how you looked at
:10:01. > :10:07.that. Because, at Leveson today, Rupert Murdoch said he had no re-
:10:07. > :10:11.election of who you were. You should remind the viewers why he
:10:11. > :10:15.should know who you are? It was dismissive, he can't quite remember
:10:15. > :10:19.and it really wasn't that important and he's somewhere better than he
:10:19. > :10:24.ought to be. That was the whole demeanour at Leveson of Murdoch.
:10:24. > :10:29.During the '8 0s, and '90s, I was fodder for the Sun newspaper and
:10:29. > :10:35.Today newspaper, two of his titles, and he may not know who I was, but
:10:35. > :10:39.I was on his front pages in the worst form, throughout those two
:10:39. > :10:44.decades. As one front page we can see now, the Sun front page, the
:10:44. > :10:48.sad day of your son's funeral? was a front page I took to Leveson,
:10:48. > :10:52.because this was to me, a brutal invasion of privacy, no matter what
:10:53. > :10:59.you think of the public's right to know, and right to privacy begins
:10:59. > :11:04.and the rest of T no matter what you think of celebrity culture,
:11:04. > :11:11.that was a brutal invasion of privacy. I would loved to have him,
:11:11. > :11:16.and Robert Jay say how do you justify that? Did you say his
:11:16. > :11:20.apology one of sincereity? Good Lord no. I can look at him and
:11:20. > :11:27.think he would say those things wouldn't he. He was well rehearseed,
:11:27. > :11:31.told to be humble occasionally. He nearly lost his rag. I thought he
:11:31. > :11:34.might get questioning where it could show his personality. Do you
:11:35. > :11:37.think there should have been some actual contrition of the stories
:11:37. > :11:42.like Anne Diamond's for example, there was no display of the
:11:42. > :11:46.tkpwraef he caused people, any contrition for that? From, Murdoch,
:11:46. > :11:49.I think he showed some contrition, but if Robert Jay actually
:11:49. > :11:54.presented that page, that front page to Murdoch, before the hearing,
:11:54. > :11:58.he could then have asked him for his reaction. But my feeling is the
:11:58. > :12:03.hearing isn't well organised. therefore, when the whole question,
:12:03. > :12:10.to go back to the whole question of coverups, do you think it's got
:12:10. > :12:14.lost? Or by elevateing it to say, these two men are guilty and then
:12:14. > :12:17.respond it is a shameful lie do. You think the focus is back on
:12:17. > :12:21.Murdoch or away now? It is a mess, because I don't think you can ask
:12:21. > :12:25.for a cover-up, unless you present the evidence. So he is fishing,
:12:25. > :12:29.rather than actually, forensically going through, what is effectively
:12:30. > :12:35.the allegation of a crime. So that extent it is unsatisfactory. From
:12:35. > :12:39.the point of the view of the politicians though, a playing on
:12:39. > :12:46.all their houses is what he seems to be saying? What he is saying is
:12:46. > :12:49.this, when Murdoch came to London in the '60s, he was fighting to get
:12:49. > :12:55.News of the World. Robert Max well was the crook, the Labour man, who
:12:56. > :13:01.the Labour Party supported. The Labour Party allowed, the Labour
:13:01. > :13:05.Government allowed Richard Desmond to buy the exPress, a man of
:13:05. > :13:11.notoriety. So, what Murdoch is now saying, is, why should I be the
:13:11. > :13:16.only one, put up, when the Labour Government, successfully, have
:13:16. > :13:22.supported these rogues. It is true, you can't call yourself saints, you
:13:22. > :13:28.are an ally of Gordon Brown, and no-one more wanted the ifrplmentier
:13:28. > :13:31.than Rupert Murdoch. All this stuff was going on when the Government
:13:31. > :13:36.was in Through John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and David
:13:36. > :13:40.Cameron have to take responsibility for this. But the key thing missing
:13:40. > :13:44.today, they mention the Burton Copeland report, Murdoch attacked
:13:44. > :13:53.them. Let's stick with the politics. We have a situation, where at
:13:53. > :13:58.Chequers, there is a sleepover for Elizabeth Murdoch, Sarah Brown,
:13:58. > :14:02.should the relationship seen to be toxyilic? Every Prime Minister,
:14:02. > :14:06.must shoulder responsibility for making Rupert Murdoch what he is
:14:06. > :14:09.today. He got too powerful and the lessons of the scandal should be
:14:09. > :14:14.the current Prime Minister and the other party leaders must never let
:14:14. > :14:18.it happen again. It looks interesting, you know, you accept
:14:18. > :14:23.the idea that Rupert Murdoch is this incredible mogul, he controls
:14:23. > :14:27.everything, his finger's on the pulse, so forth. And yet he seems
:14:27. > :14:32.to be presiding on argues that was out of control. There was
:14:32. > :14:36.criminality and all sorts of money swilling out in bribes, allegations
:14:36. > :14:41.of bribery, and he didn't seem to know anything about it?
:14:41. > :14:48.newspaper in Britain is a fraction of the empire, the real thing is
:14:48. > :14:52.Fox and Universal Films. He loved it, so he can't say he was distant?
:14:52. > :14:56.You're right he can't. And he is accepting responsibility, all the
:14:56. > :15:00.time. The point is you don't believe his acceptance of
:15:00. > :15:07.responsibility. I don't believe t he feigned no knowledge of the
:15:07. > :15:10.blackmail allegation today. The judge accused wufpb the reporters
:15:10. > :15:14.of blackmail. He was asked at the inquiry in Parliament about this
:15:14. > :15:18.last July and asked where the staff didn't bring did to his attention,
:15:18. > :15:23.he should have done his homework. He accepted the culture as well.
:15:23. > :15:26.You never imagineed, even five years ago that would be the outcome.
:15:26. > :15:31.How do you think Rupert Murdoch will be remembered? My newsagent,
:15:31. > :15:35.when I was popping on my way here, said, why have they let him get
:15:35. > :15:39.away with such an easy ride? They've given him an easy ride,
:15:39. > :15:47.that's not the first time I heard that. The public perception is he
:15:47. > :15:51.is a ver bad man, responsible for deed tkpwregaigs of our press and
:15:51. > :15:56.not been made, no, mam humbled enough, frankly. What do you think
:15:56. > :16:02.his legacy will be? He is the man who saved the press. You can say he
:16:02. > :16:06.hasn't been humbled, the people who own the rest of the press, Desmond,
:16:06. > :16:10.Bailey, deficit of the Guardian, none of the people are really
:16:10. > :16:15.giants in the press, our press once Murdoch is forced out, will not be
:16:15. > :16:20.a healthier place, but a poorer place. He should have been better
:16:20. > :16:23.regulated perhaps. If he done the job better, it would be a better
:16:23. > :16:29.situation generally. He saved a lot of titles and whole press by
:16:29. > :16:35.forcing the unions out. At the cost of a lot of people's happyness?
:16:35. > :16:39.They're all responsible for that. Richard Des manned and Mandy in can,
:16:39. > :16:45.are all there to cause misery. with us, we want to discuss
:16:46. > :16:50.something further, because the pressure on the Culture Secretary,
:16:50. > :16:58.Jeremy Hunt intense fiedtoday when the permanent secretary refused to
:16:58. > :17:05.confirm his version of events. Hunt's assertion the top civil
:17:05. > :17:09.servant authorised the liaise. I just repeat what I said before,
:17:09. > :17:16.it was a clear statement from the special advisory concern. We're
:17:16. > :17:21.asking about your role, not the Secretary of State's role. If I may,
:17:21. > :17:26.I'm just going to explain the nature of the statement yesterday.
:17:26. > :17:29.Now, our political editor, Allegra Stratton is here. What is going on
:17:30. > :17:33.with this? Well, previous guests were talking about how the Leveson
:17:33. > :17:38.Inquiry is not organised but it seems to me the Leveson is
:17:38. > :17:41.organising the Government. It is slightly there, you had the three
:17:41. > :17:46.civil servants, nothing much happened other than the Mandarins
:17:46. > :17:49.have been dragged into the story. First of all, this poor chap, who,
:17:49. > :17:54.I think it is probably fair to say, he should have been briefed you
:17:54. > :18:00.will be asked about this, and you better have an answer. The same
:18:00. > :18:04.line Jeremy Hunt used the day before, instead of the tep
:18:04. > :18:08.questions, especially Miss Hostage. He should have been more prepared,
:18:08. > :18:13.but equally, it is now subject to legal process, so that was
:18:13. > :18:19.embarrassing and clearly his master's voice is Leveson. Then
:18:19. > :18:23.Neil Heywood, spoke to Leveson, to establish what could he inquiry
:18:23. > :18:27.into, given Leveson was inquiring into so much. The other Mandarin,
:18:27. > :18:31.is the Prime Minister's adviser on the Ministerial Code of conduct.
:18:31. > :18:35.The idea the special adviser, was appropriate, for him to G and
:18:36. > :18:41.Jeremy Hunt to have no oversight or sense what he was doing on his
:18:41. > :18:45.behalf. It is not going to get worse, or is it getting worse?
:18:45. > :18:52.is frozen. Today we had the sense of activity, but, actually, this is
:18:52. > :18:55.all going to be about, a mauling, in front of Leveson, and Robert Jay
:18:55. > :18:59.for the Culture Secretary, one would expect text messages and e-
:19:00. > :19:03.mails to be brought up in front of them. I'm not saying he won't
:19:03. > :19:07.survive that, but you can see sometimes, when Robert Jay gets
:19:07. > :19:11.something between his teeth he goes for it. Does it matter? Well, there
:19:11. > :19:14.are some people who are saying on the doorsteps, there's a local
:19:14. > :19:19.election, being fought, and some are saying, this isn't coming up.
:19:19. > :19:22.Remember the test for some of these scandals is it actually
:19:22. > :19:27.particularly clear for people to understand. Some say, this isn't in
:19:27. > :19:31.that order. And some people said today, the posh boys quote about
:19:31. > :19:37.Cameron and Osbourne, is the thing that rolls, than the Leveson
:19:37. > :19:41.Inquiry at the moment. Tom Watson, you are looking for an inquiry,
:19:41. > :19:45.into Ministerial Code of conduct. You haven't got that. Now you're
:19:45. > :19:49.skrieping about, saying we must have the text messages, between
:19:50. > :19:54.Jeremy Hunt and former adviser, Adam Smith. It is getting desperate
:19:54. > :19:59.isn't it? I think Jeremy Hunt will go eventually. And if David Cameron
:19:59. > :20:04.wants to hold out and not have an investigation, he is the one that
:20:04. > :20:08.raised the bar on standards, and code, he made ministers responsible
:20:08. > :20:14.for the conduct of their special advisers, and now he is not let in
:20:14. > :20:18.for the adviser to do his job. They can stagger up to polling day, next
:20:18. > :20:23.Thursday, but it is not going to go away, until he does something.
:20:23. > :20:30.the troubles of the Government's own makeing Yes I do, it is tragedy
:20:30. > :20:37.for the Tories. I think, that David Cameron, a man of integrity but the
:20:37. > :20:41.question is his judgment. Which I think is poor. We had Peter with
:20:41. > :20:46.one catastrophe after another, he is not a man in control. But the
:20:46. > :20:51.trouble really is, if I don't mind you saying, with the Hunt saga, it
:20:51. > :20:57.is not Murdoch's fault, that he wanted to lobby, to get a perfectly
:20:57. > :21:02.legitimate deal through n Labour's time, John Brown was in Number Ten,
:21:02. > :21:07.it was calling Blair patrol. It is Hunt and he should have been in
:21:07. > :21:11.control of his apartment, he should never have allowed Smith to talk to
:21:11. > :21:16.him the way he did. That's why Hunt will probably go, because in the
:21:16. > :21:19.end, Hunt like Cameron was not in charge of the detail. Thank you all
:21:19. > :21:25.very much. The American Vice-President, Joe
:21:25. > :21:29.Biden had a favourite phrase to sum of Barack Obama's presidency, Osama
:21:29. > :21:32.Bin Laden is daet and general motor is alive. The former is lauded the
:21:32. > :21:36.General Motors is another matter because many Republicans the
:21:36. > :21:41.billions of dollars of taxpayers' money pumped noolt car industry to
:21:41. > :21:51.resuscitate it, was good money, thrown after bad. Our economics
:21:51. > :22:01.
:22:02. > :22:06.editor has been to the place they Detroit. Michigan. The American
:22:06. > :22:11.auto industry was born here and when the financial crisis hit, it
:22:11. > :22:20.nearly died here. But general motor, and Chrysler, got a Government bail
:22:20. > :22:25.out of $85 billion. And it worked The industry, is back. On the worst
:22:25. > :22:28.day for the American economy, since 1929 the recovery began of hits
:22:28. > :22:34.most iconic industry. How that happened, tells us a lot
:22:34. > :22:43.about the way America will recover and how the rest of the world might
:22:44. > :22:49.too. In 2009, Brad was laid off with thousands of others, and
:22:49. > :22:53.production stopped at this plant in lake Oran, now, both Brad and
:22:53. > :22:57.completely retooled factory are in full swing. These jobs, are going
:22:57. > :23:03.to be here to stay if we do a good job. So I think the jobs are on the
:23:03. > :23:08.line, and everyone's here to do the best jobs they k It may look like
:23:08. > :23:13.everything's back to normal, but it's not. These workers gave away
:23:13. > :23:18.long-held rights, in return, their union pension fund got a 11% stake
:23:18. > :23:22.in the company. With massive tax relief and handouts, they've
:23:22. > :23:28.engineered a total change of culture. We talked together as a
:23:28. > :23:33.team and nought what is the best way we can build this car, or have
:23:33. > :23:35.an issue, what's the best way we can resolve the issue. So, we're
:23:35. > :23:43.working together, instead of amendment, saying this is the way
:23:43. > :23:50.we're going to do it. With new ways of working it's become economic to
:23:50. > :23:55.make smaller, fuel efficient cars and they're in frostr profit. GM
:23:55. > :23:58.made $7 billion, even though they're the sitting on a loss. It
:23:58. > :24:03.sounds like state capitalism, that's what the amendment are
:24:03. > :24:08.touchy about. Are you gaining an unfair, state advantage here?
:24:08. > :24:11.this point, all the Government owns our stock. In the same way that
:24:11. > :24:16.individuals owners own our stock, but they're not directing our
:24:16. > :24:23.company, or managing our business, and not interfering in the industry.
:24:23. > :24:28.It left America, confused. The auto industry is the symbol of free
:24:28. > :24:35.market values. But now, it does look quite stated,
:24:35. > :24:41.stronger unions, Government ownership and taxpayers' subsidy.
:24:41. > :24:44.To some in the Republican Party, this looks like crony capitalism
:24:44. > :24:50.stootoorks a reward to the unions from the Democrats in a key state
:24:50. > :24:54.ahead of an election. Let me make this point - the reason I remain
:24:54. > :24:59.unfortunately with the way it was done, we lost more jobs, in the
:24:59. > :25:04.recreational vehicle industry, for example in this state, that we're
:25:04. > :25:09.threatened a GM and Chrysler. No- one offered to spend hundreds of
:25:09. > :25:14.thousands of dollars per worker on them. How was I to tell the people
:25:14. > :25:20.your job is not worth as much, because you're not as politically
:25:20. > :25:24.connected. The rebirth is shrieth of hand? I don't know how you could
:25:24. > :25:29.not make money, if someone handed you a comeck for tens of billions,
:25:29. > :25:34.wiped out your debt, and excused you from making taxes in the future,
:25:34. > :25:39.they ought to be a going concern. I cannot bring myself to say, that's
:25:39. > :25:45.a trifle of brilliant public policy. We might have gotten to a same
:25:46. > :25:55.outcome for quickly if a bankruptcy court had wiped out the creditors
:25:55. > :26:00.and so foreth. The city of Toledo is in the key election battleground
:26:00. > :26:05.state of Ohio. It's seen years of industrial decline but the bail out
:26:05. > :26:08.of a nearby jeep plant, has, they hope, marked a new beginning. At
:26:08. > :26:14.the Toledo Blade, one of the historic local newspapers, that
:26:14. > :26:20.still matter in America, they know the bail out is about politics as
:26:20. > :26:24.much as economics. What are readers thinking about the bail out?
:26:25. > :26:30.think locally the voter would say the bail out worked, it saved jobs
:26:30. > :26:37.in an industry that dominates our Marshall ket. In the political
:26:37. > :26:42.battle, Toledo is on the front line. Vice-President here, several times,
:26:42. > :26:47.President Obama a couple of times, their message is to defend the bail
:26:47. > :26:51.out. Joe Biden is pitching what I talked about in terms of the bail
:26:51. > :26:56.out, saved America, saved jobs. There are people who call this
:26:56. > :27:01.though, crony capitalism, because it is the unions, the Democrats, it
:27:01. > :27:06.is industrys that some people think ought not to exist any more? Yeah.
:27:06. > :27:13.That's true. There is an argument out there. I say you know what, you
:27:13. > :27:17.talk to a guy who a family of four to feed, used to work on a jeep
:27:17. > :27:24.assembly line. Without the union co-operation here, Toledo would
:27:24. > :27:29.have quickly become a waistline. What the Republicans have to do, is
:27:29. > :27:34.persuade the American working class, that the bail out was a big mistake.
:27:34. > :27:41.To do the job, they've chosen a man who has become iconic of working
:27:41. > :27:46.class distain for the big state full stop. A regular blue colour
:27:46. > :27:51.worker, not someone who graduated from harvord, a regular Jo. A man
:27:51. > :27:54.who, in one short confrontation, defined the terms of the last
:27:54. > :27:59.election? Your new tax plan is going to tax me more. I don't want
:27:59. > :28:05.to punish your success, I want to make sure everybody behind you they
:28:05. > :28:09.have a chance of success too. When you spread the wolt around. As Joe
:28:09. > :28:15.the Plumber, Jo shot to national fame. Now he is running for
:28:15. > :28:20.Congress in Toledo, his message the Government should get out of the
:28:20. > :28:26.economy. A very federal Government that bailed him out, is the same
:28:26. > :28:31.that brought the automobile toity knees, through over-regulation,so
:28:31. > :28:35.they're thanking the same person that beat them. Let's get away, and
:28:35. > :28:38.not let the Government pick the winners and losers, and decide who
:28:38. > :28:43.will keep or lose their business. But they will argue they delivered
:28:43. > :28:49.to the working man and woman on the production line? They can argue all
:28:49. > :28:54.they want, it is still wrong. the Toledo Blade the presss are
:28:54. > :28:58.getting busy, advertising revenue is up and America is recovering.
:28:58. > :29:04.But it's taken a trillion dollar stimulus and rethink of the economy
:29:04. > :29:08.that most Americans just can't get their heads around. The bail out
:29:08. > :29:13.has revived the car industry here, spectacularly, but to make it
:29:13. > :29:17.happen, they had to do things that seemed alien, subsidy, state
:29:17. > :29:20.ownership and partnership with the unions. Americans like to tell
:29:20. > :29:30.themselves these things are temporary, but it is in moment of
:29:30. > :29:31.
:29:31. > :29:37.crisis new models are born. Across the wider economy, the US recovery
:29:37. > :29:41.has a long way to go. The private sector on its own is still
:29:41. > :29:50.struggling to generate growth, so what happens here could define the
:29:50. > :29:59.landscape, not just in the economy, but in the election too. Steven
:29:59. > :30:04.Rattner, man known as the car Czar, who was asked to push the bail out,
:30:04. > :30:09.and here, we have Dr Pippa Malmgren, adviser to George Bush, who runs,
:30:09. > :30:14.Principalis Asset Management. It is hard to deny the auto bail out
:30:14. > :30:18.worked. GM biggest profit since 1999? It is easy to deny, because
:30:18. > :30:25.the question is what would have happened if we hadn't had it, and
:30:25. > :30:28.gone through the normal bankruptcy process, and would the process
:30:28. > :30:33.happen moreicly. We declare a company bankrupt T goes to sale for
:30:33. > :30:39.a dollar, and new investors come in rapidly n addition, there are
:30:39. > :30:42.factors that led to foreign direct investment in the US motor industry,
:30:42. > :30:49.like the China stake in again moteers, which was not dependent on
:30:49. > :30:54.the bail out, but the China moving up the value added ladder. In the
:30:54. > :30:58.film, the criticism was hundreds of dollars per worker were poured into
:30:58. > :31:03.the GM, you were the architect of the bail out. But was it for a
:31:03. > :31:08.political reason, in as much as the car workers, the Democratic
:31:08. > :31:12.constituency, you needed to get them on side? Remember, the first
:31:12. > :31:15.architect of the bail out was George Bush, he was the first
:31:15. > :31:20.President to put money in general moteers and Chrysler, because he
:31:20. > :31:25.saw, as President Obama saw, this was not a case of buying political
:31:25. > :31:32.favours or pouring money into a charity, it was a case of market
:31:32. > :31:36.failure, and the fact was had the Government not stepped in the
:31:36. > :31:44.alternative with into the have somebody buying it for a dollar,
:31:44. > :31:47.but shutting down, liquidateing and losing jobs. Early 2008, and 2009,
:31:47. > :31:49.there simply was no capital interested in investing in the
:31:49. > :31:54.industry, I know that because I was there.
:31:54. > :31:58.Steven Rattner was hawking around the industries, looking for
:31:58. > :32:02.purchasers, there was no-one will, the President of the Toledo Blade,
:32:02. > :32:06.saying it would be a wasteland and thousands of workers out of work?
:32:06. > :32:10.agree, it was the Bush administration, that made the
:32:10. > :32:13.initial decisions. My view is part of the team was that was not
:32:13. > :32:17.necessarily the correct decision at that time. Was there no industry
:32:17. > :32:23.you would have saved in that way? have to say, I would have leaned
:32:23. > :32:25.against bail out, even for Wall Street. I do think, we would have
:32:25. > :32:29.seen the collapse more than institutions than Lehman Brothers,
:32:29. > :32:34.and the economy, would have been able to manage that process. But
:32:34. > :32:37.that view will never be tested, we won't know. I was saying, at that
:32:37. > :32:41.time, that was the argument I made and I stand by that. The problem
:32:42. > :32:44.now is we've created an environment, under both Democrats and
:32:44. > :32:49.Republicans, where private businesses, believe, that if they
:32:49. > :32:56.really get did wrong, they're going to be bailed out. Even after Lehman,
:32:56. > :33:01.you stand by that view? Absolutely. What you've got now, is Steven
:33:01. > :33:07.Rattner, a situation, where the market is distorted, is what you're
:33:07. > :33:11.saying, pipa, and you're in a kind of permanent new deal Roosevelt
:33:11. > :33:14.situation that will go on and change the nature of the US
:33:14. > :33:20.economy? I actually respect flee disagree with that. First of all, I
:33:20. > :33:25.think, while it can't be proveen, absent the bailouts, or rescues of
:33:25. > :33:27.both the banks and auto sector, there would be no functioning USA
:33:27. > :33:37.Today, the entire financial and economic system would have
:33:37. > :33:40.collapsed in a panic. I can't proof it but I believe it. Secondly, what
:33:40. > :33:44.President Bush and President Obama was to exception to reinforce the
:33:44. > :33:48.rule N US, and parts of Europe, the Government does stay out of the
:33:48. > :33:54.industrial sector. And I don't think anybody, who was involved
:33:54. > :33:58.with the rescues, in 2008 and 2009, believes they were setting a
:33:58. > :34:01.precedent, wanted to, or had a desire for the Government to be in
:34:02. > :34:05.this business, for one second longer than necessary. But you say
:34:05. > :34:08.that, but do you think there's a possibility if it has been judged
:34:08. > :34:15.as a success, this situation will not be a temporary situation, and
:34:15. > :34:22.there will be a fundamental shift, where the US economy becomes, it is
:34:22. > :34:29.status, and interventionist? could go back further in history,
:34:29. > :34:36.and we've had a significant sectors, continuously, since the 1970s, when
:34:36. > :34:39.we have had major banks, go bust, when we had LTCM hit the wall.
:34:39. > :34:43.Other incidents where the Government has stepped in. The
:34:43. > :34:49.tradition, is we tend to prefer, going into bankruptcy procedures,
:34:49. > :34:54.but Steveen is right, when an entire sector is subject to a loss
:34:54. > :35:00.function, that's when politics steps in. Do you think then, Steven
:35:00. > :35:06.Rattner, that state spending can actually be the highlighted as
:35:06. > :35:10.being the key to America's recovery? Well, first of all, we
:35:10. > :35:16.actually let many, many companies go bankrupt, after general moteers,
:35:16. > :35:19.and Chrysler were he is queuesed, suppliers. Sorry to interrupt, that
:35:19. > :35:23.led to resentment, because you were selective in what you were saving?
:35:23. > :35:28.We saved the two companies, for which there was no private capital
:35:28. > :35:33.available. The rest of the supply base, we allowed to go through
:35:33. > :35:37.bankruptcy, and they emerged as Pippa, described. There was no
:35:37. > :35:43.possibility for that to happen to general moteers, and Chrysler. You
:35:43. > :35:51.said about Government spending, yes, the Government spending and all the
:35:51. > :35:54.actions taken by President Bush and President Obama were instrumental
:35:54. > :35:57.in preventing economic collapse. What is interesting, is there was
:35:57. > :36:02.no tradition, as in Europe, of state intervention. But now the
:36:02. > :36:07.American model is one that could help Europe, which is having a
:36:07. > :36:12.harder time, getting out of the doldrums? Yeah, that's a much
:36:12. > :36:16.bigger subject. And it is hard to draw an immediate parallel between
:36:16. > :36:20.what you see in Europe today and the US. But what I will say is this
:36:20. > :36:24.- the political today, in the United States, when it comes to the
:36:24. > :36:28.question of bail out, the issue is not general moteers or the
:36:28. > :36:32.automotive industry, the issue is bail out for Wall Street. And the
:36:32. > :36:37.perception remains in the middle of the country, that Wall Street got a
:36:37. > :36:40.whole lot of money than the automotive industry or economy
:36:40. > :36:45.sector, that's the politicalcal issue that both Democrats and
:36:45. > :36:49.Republicans have to fight over. Thank you both very much indeed.
:36:49. > :36:53.Today, the Foreign Secretary, William Hague denied that British
:36:53. > :36:56.businessman, Neil Heywood thought to be murdered in the Chinese city
:36:56. > :37:00.of Hong Kong was in the employ of British Government. He was
:37:00. > :37:05.responding to allegations that Mr Heywood was a MI6 agent. But his
:37:06. > :37:15.death is a huge ramificationness Chinese politics, in particular on
:37:15. > :37:19.the career of rising career of Bo Xilai. But, Mr Bo may have fallen
:37:19. > :37:29.from Parliament for other reasons. We've just returned, where we found
:37:29. > :37:30.
:37:30. > :37:40.a city state under the grip of Bo Xilai, a grip threadened not seen
:37:40. > :37:47.
:37:47. > :37:50.A death on theantscy and the man who would be King. Chongqing and
:37:50. > :37:55.notorious underworld is the setting for an extraordinary drama. The
:37:55. > :38:00.city's leader in a power struggle, against the mighty party machine.
:38:00. > :38:06.He was bold and am a birks and he used his time in charge here to
:38:06. > :38:14.ruthlessly manoeuvre for a seat at China's top thaibl. Conning qing,
:38:14. > :38:18.with over 30 million people, became Bo Xilai's personal city state.
:38:18. > :38:24.Until Neil Heywood's death. Heywood came to China to seek his fortune.
:38:24. > :38:30.He became the trusted adviser to a highly visible power couple. Bo's
:38:30. > :38:35.aspiration to lead the country, an open secret. By his side, his wife,
:38:35. > :38:41.the lawyer, dubbed China's Jackie Kennedy.
:38:41. > :38:44.The King of police, was in the charmed circle, until he turned up
:38:44. > :38:49.at the US Consulate begging for protection.
:38:49. > :38:53.TRANSLATION: It's been a one-man dictatorship, one man ruling, one
:38:53. > :39:00.voice, one message. The party and the media were completely
:39:00. > :39:09.controlled. Heywood's body was found we believe in this hotel. The
:39:09. > :39:12.chief of police had information that linked his death to Bo's wife.
:39:12. > :39:18.Heywood's death was murder A business deal gone wrong. The
:39:18. > :39:22.police chief wanted out, the case too toxic to handle. Party chief he
:39:23. > :39:28.is in this suburb is said to be part of the loyal security network.
:39:28. > :39:31.We understand this hotel was closely monitored by Bo's security
:39:31. > :39:37.apparatus. Reports today suggest a wire taping
:39:38. > :39:45.regime extended across the city even the premier was buged. Inside
:39:45. > :39:55.the hotel, no-one is talking. REPORTER: I want to ask, did a
:39:55. > :39:59.
:39:59. > :40:09.British man die here last year? don't know. They don't take
:40:09. > :40:17.
:40:17. > :40:21.interviews. REPORTER: Did that At Chongqing's Great Hall of the
:40:21. > :40:26.People, the carefully choreographed message is party rule careies on
:40:26. > :40:30.ace normal but Beijing acted quickly.
:40:30. > :40:35.GU was arrested and her husband perged. But Bo did not fall just
:40:35. > :40:40.because of at murder case. There is a second explanation. China is
:40:40. > :40:47.about to appoint a new generation of leaders. And Bo wanted in. He
:40:47. > :40:56.was using his position, to challenge party orm doxy, in a way
:40:56. > :41:00.not seen since 1989. TRANSLATION: Bo Xilai was openly
:41:00. > :41:05.advocating a different line from Beijing on China's fewture. He had
:41:05. > :41:15.an attitude on his own, and many of his people rallied to his cause,
:41:15. > :41:15.
:41:15. > :41:22.they think he was a victim of a political struggle. The party's
:41:22. > :41:25.battle lines are clear. Some want ever more market reforms. Others, a
:41:25. > :41:31.return to Communist values. Bo Xilai was different, because he
:41:31. > :41:41.took his struggle to the streets. Becoming the champion of the new
:41:41. > :41:42.
:41:42. > :41:47.Chinese left. Even though Chongqing was hungryly Capitalist, Bo talked
:41:47. > :41:54.like amowist. TRANSLATION: Bo helped the poor, he
:41:54. > :42:01.built cheap housing. The charges against him are lies. Another tells
:42:01. > :42:06.me Bo made Chongqing better for the common man and he was loved for it.
:42:06. > :42:15.While this man says ordinary people are poor, whilst a few earn
:42:15. > :42:21.millions. He likened Bo to chairman Mao and wants to bring his values
:42:21. > :42:24.back. Bo Xilai relies on Mao scares many people. Four decades ago, many
:42:24. > :42:34.were purgesed in his cultural revolution, the country was
:42:34. > :42:37.
:42:37. > :42:41.consumed in violence and chaos. Jiang Wenyang was targeted as a
:42:41. > :42:47.rightist, under Bo Xilai he suffered again, placed under
:42:47. > :42:52.constant surveillance. TRANSLATION: The clock has been
:42:52. > :42:58.turned back, it has been just like the cultural revolution. The talk
:42:58. > :43:07.is of class struggle and percentages, Red Guards, red songs
:43:07. > :43:11.and of a red country. Red is good, black is bad. Sing red, fight black.
:43:12. > :43:16.Was Bo Xilai's great campaign slogan. The red referred to pride
:43:16. > :43:23.in the country's leftist task. The black refd to one of the greatest
:43:23. > :43:29.threats to its future - corruption. The mafia are locked up in this
:43:29. > :43:36.prison outside the city. But I was told, Bo's Ennis are locked up here,
:43:36. > :43:40.in large numbers. This lawyer represent one of the city's biggest
:43:40. > :43:48.businessmen, he says shortly of taking on the case, he himself was
:43:48. > :43:53.visited by police in Beijing. TRANSLATION: They drove me 2 hours
:43:53. > :43:58.to conning qing, there I was put in a tiger chair, and my body and
:43:58. > :44:04.hands were tied tightly with chains. They kept me like that for three
:44:04. > :44:09.days and nights. They interrogateed me constantly. When I tried to fall
:44:09. > :44:14.asleep, they shone bright light in my eyes. In the end I was imprise
:44:14. > :44:20.beened for a year-and-a-half. Because he opposed Bo Xilai he was
:44:20. > :44:23.personally targeted. TRANSLATION: TransBo Xilai's
:44:23. > :44:30.campaigns from about winning support across China. As a lawyer,
:44:30. > :44:40.I came across the dark side. I got in the way of his ideas and his
:44:40. > :44:41.
:44:41. > :44:47.political career. Bo looked for enemies, so he waved the red banner
:44:47. > :44:50.and accused his opponents of gangsters and part of the mafa. Bo
:44:50. > :44:54.Xilai's campaigns against gangsterism, poll lateriseed this
:44:54. > :44:59.city, but no-one expected the story to end with his own downfall. His
:44:59. > :45:04.hopes of ascending to the highest office, in tatters.
:45:04. > :45:08.Lower level corruption is an open secret in China. And Chongqing had
:45:08. > :45:12.a pen negotation reputation, but Bo Xilai was from an elite class, far
:45:12. > :45:20.above this world. In China, what's so shocking is not the crime, but
:45:20. > :45:24.the accused were so close to the heart of power. China's Communist
:45:24. > :45:30.rulers pride themselves on greyness and continuity. On the surface at
:45:30. > :45:36.least, things are made to seem calm. But the seats on Beijing's pot luet
:45:36. > :45:41.bureau are decided this Autumn. Many in China, think beyond the
:45:41. > :45:51.alleged crime of political clash, Bo Xilai threatened a system that
:45:51. > :46:21.
:46:21. > :46:25.valueed stability above all. Well that's all from Newsnight
:46:25. > :46:28.tonight n a few days the Empire State Building will no longer be
:46:28. > :46:38.the tallest building in New York City, as number one World Trade
:46:38. > :46:48.Center, overtakes it just as the predecessor did in the 1970s, here
:46:48. > :47:09.
:47:09. > :47:13.Hello there. Wet weather continues through the night, across northern
:47:13. > :47:17.England and Midlands and much of Friday. To the south, we start off
:47:17. > :47:21.with sunny spells but showers will develop. Brighter further north.
:47:21. > :47:25.Southern Scotland, Northern Ireland and far north of northern England,
:47:25. > :47:30.we should have sunny spells. Down across the Midlands, it is a drab
:47:30. > :47:37.day, with outbreaks of rain and temperatures reaching double
:47:37. > :47:40.figures. There will be hit and miss, with you all southern counties of
:47:40. > :47:46.England, expect intense showers once more. Across much of Wales, it
:47:46. > :47:50.will be cloudy, not much in the way of brightness and dull and damp in
:47:50. > :47:56.eastern areas. There will be a chill in the air across Northern
:47:56. > :48:02.Ireland but should be sunshine. The showers pushing south, it will
:48:02. > :48:12.again contain snow in the hills and mountains. Dry day through the
:48:12. > :48:14.
:48:14. > :48:19.central part of Scotland. Here is Later on in the day, we are
:48:19. > :48:25.expecting more wet weather to push into the south-east, but overall a