:00:11. > :00:15.Tonight, Rupert Murdoch's former top executive in Britain reveals
:00:15. > :00:19.just how much she influenced Government ministers.
:00:19. > :00:29.For one three-minute conversation at the beginning of dinner, I got
:00:29. > :00:39.the opportunity to give our view. I don't see why that's inappropriate.
:00:39. > :00:42.
:00:42. > :00:46.Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of lobbied for the BSkyB bid.
:00:46. > :00:50.The Culture Secretary sought guided advice on his position.
:00:50. > :00:52.We will analyse the claims and the damage to the Government, with two
:00:52. > :00:57.political commentators and a prominent media lawyer.
:00:57. > :01:01.The drain in Spain, more protests, the latest twists in the eurozone
:01:01. > :01:05.bail-out, and another black hole in banking finances. Paul Mason is
:01:05. > :01:09.here. The Spanish Government is lending
:01:09. > :01:13.the banks 30 billion euros, only one slight problem, that is the
:01:13. > :01:16.money the banks have lent to the Government. The Rochdale grooming
:01:16. > :01:26.convictions raise new questions about the crisis in care homes all
:01:26. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :01:31.across Britain. Good evening, one former News
:01:31. > :01:35.Corporation executive calls it, Leveson Syndrome, the inability of
:01:35. > :01:38.otherwise apparently healthy people to remember the details of rather
:01:38. > :01:41.important events, when questioned at the Leveson Inquiry. Today the
:01:41. > :01:46.star witness was Rebekah Brooks, who certainly did remember close
:01:46. > :01:49.contact with the people who run this country. Including the
:01:49. > :01:53.affectionate tone of texts from David Cameron, and his
:01:53. > :01:56.commiserations when she lost her job. The greatest heat was on the
:01:56. > :02:00.Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, whose career is already in the
:02:00. > :02:05.balance. A newly revealed e-mail suggests he sought private advice
:02:05. > :02:10.from News Corporation over phone hacking.
:02:10. > :02:14.She's the ultimate newspaper red- top, for a decade the distinctive
:02:14. > :02:18.Rebekah Brooks has been at the heart of Britain's tabloid press,
:02:18. > :02:24.as an editor and executive with daily access to senior politicians.
:02:24. > :02:29.But, as the inquiry reminded her, these are difficult days for this
:02:29. > :02:37.once powerful woman. You are under police investigation in the contegs
:02:37. > :02:41.of Operation Weet weet, -- on text of Operation Weeting, Operation
:02:41. > :02:46.Elveden, and for also perverting the course of justice, is that
:02:46. > :02:50.true? Yes. Even after Mr Brooks was arrested and she lost her job in
:02:50. > :02:58.July 2011, the politicians still made contact, to send their
:02:58. > :03:02.condolences. Number Ten, Number 11, Home Office, Foreign Office. One of
:03:02. > :03:09.Mr Cameron's messages, sent through an intermediary, went along the
:03:09. > :03:15.lines of "keep your head up". you also receive a message from him
:03:15. > :03:21.via an intermediary along these loings, "sorry I could not be as
:03:21. > :03:27.loyal to you as I could be, but Mr Miliband had my on the run", or
:03:27. > :03:30.words to that effect. Similar, but indirectly. Sadly, Rebekah Brooks
:03:30. > :03:34.told the inquiry, that none of the numerous text conversations with
:03:34. > :03:40.David Cameron had survived. They definitely weren't more than a
:03:40. > :03:44.couple of weeks, definitely not the dozen a day of certain reports. One
:03:44. > :03:48.thing we could say, is they were pretty chumy in tone. Her Majesty's
:03:48. > :03:58.Prime Minister and first Lord of the Treasury, apparently signs his
:03:58. > :04:03.messages, LOL DC. Occasionally he would sign them off, LOL "lots of
:04:04. > :04:08.love", until I told him it meant "laugh out loud", then he didn't
:04:08. > :04:12.sign them like that at all. In the main, DC, I would have thought.
:04:12. > :04:15.There was, we heard, substance to this relationship, David Cameron
:04:15. > :04:21.called Rebekah Brooks, she said, to discuss phone hacking. He wanted an
:04:22. > :04:25.update. They also discussed the BSkyB bid, though not at any length.
:04:25. > :04:30.Mrs Brooks said she had a longer discussion during a dinner with the
:04:30. > :04:35.Chancellor of the Exchequer, in late 2010. Although she says she
:04:35. > :04:39.can't remember who brought the subject up. You think it is an
:04:39. > :04:43.appropriate conversation with Mr Osbourne or not? It was an entirely
:04:43. > :04:49.appropriate conversation. I was reflecting the opposite view to the
:04:49. > :04:55.view that he had heard by that stage from pretty much every member
:04:55. > :04:58.of the anti-Sky bid alliance on those occasions. For one three-
:04:58. > :05:02.minute conversation at the beginning of dinner, I got the
:05:02. > :05:06.opportunity to give our view. I don't see why that is inappropriate.
:05:06. > :05:11.If you remember the length of the conversation, you might be able to
:05:11. > :05:14.assist us in who initiated it, Mrs Brooks, wouldn't you agree? I was
:05:14. > :05:19.accepting for the sake of argument that I brought it up, I can't
:05:19. > :05:21.remember if it is absolutely true. The most interesting revelation
:05:21. > :05:25.related to Frederic Michel, director of public affairs for News
:05:25. > :05:29.Corporation. Today we saw an e-mail he sent to Rebekah Brooks,
:05:29. > :05:33.apparently detailing a conversation with Jeremy Hunt, the Culture
:05:33. > :05:40.Secretary's special adviser. Jeremy Hunt was the minister deciding on
:05:40. > :05:42.the BSkyB bid, code named Rubicon, by News Corporation. The company
:05:42. > :05:46.was desperate to know whether recent revelations on phone hacking
:05:46. > :05:51.would put the bid in jeopardy. Mr Hunt was due to make a statement to
:05:51. > :05:56.parliament in a few days time what they needed to know -- what, they
:05:56. > :06:04.needed to know, was he going to say. According to the e-mail recovered
:06:04. > :06:07.from Mrs Brooks's smart phone, was that hunt would be referring to the
:06:07. > :06:11.Rubican and repeating the same narrative as given in parliament.
:06:11. > :06:16.This is based on his belief that the police is pursuing things
:06:16. > :06:20.thoroughly, and phone hacking has nothing to do with the media
:06:20. > :06:25.plurality issues. It is extremely helpful. He goes on that Jeremy
:06:25. > :06:32.Hunt wants to prevent a public inquiry. The e-mail goes even
:06:32. > :06:37.further. "JH is now starting to look into phone hacking practices
:06:37. > :06:42.more authorisely and has asked me (Mr Michel) to advise him privately
:06:43. > :06:47.in the coming weeks and guide his and Number Ten's positioning." Do
:06:47. > :06:50.you know what that was about? think it speaks for itself.
:06:50. > :06:54.idea that a Government minister, even Number Ten, was seeking
:06:54. > :06:58.direction on what to do about phone hacking, from the company at the
:06:58. > :07:02.heart of the scandal. Well, if true, that would be explosive. Tonight
:07:02. > :07:08.Jeremy Hunt has issued a statement saying the e-mail from Frederic
:07:08. > :07:11.Michel is completely inaccurate. And that he intends to set the
:07:11. > :07:16.record straight when he gives evidence to Leveson in the next
:07:16. > :07:18.couple of weeks. In her evidence today, Rebekah Brooks also detailed
:07:18. > :07:21.a simply cosy relationship with previous prime ministers,
:07:21. > :07:25.particularly Tony Blair. But, the current Prime Minister knows that
:07:25. > :07:31.he's the man in power, and he is the one who has to defend his
:07:31. > :07:36.conduct. The writer and columnist Iain
:07:36. > :07:40.Martin, David Richards of the Independent, and the lawyer --
:07:40. > :07:44.Steve Richards, and the lawyer Charlotte Harris, who has
:07:44. > :07:48.represented phone hacking victims, and are here to review Rebekah
:07:48. > :07:52.Brooks's performance. You saw a lot of witnesses, what did you make of
:07:52. > :07:58.today? I thought she started off very smooth, and confident, and
:07:58. > :08:01.prepared. But then, of course, she has had a lot of time to think
:08:01. > :08:04.about this. This is going on for such a long time. She also was
:08:04. > :08:10.clearly so involved in the paper that you would have thought that
:08:10. > :08:16.she would be able to assist the inquiry. Her appearance was
:08:16. > :08:26.interesting. Because she appeared to be dressed quite innocently, but
:08:26. > :08:26.
:08:26. > :08:31.with the collar, the contrasting collar, it did look a little bit
:08:31. > :08:37.Salem. The Massachusetts witch trials? A little bit. She's very
:08:37. > :08:44.dramatic and an iconic figure. There was that drama today with the
:08:44. > :08:51.inquiry. She turned up with her massive red hair, wearing a black
:08:51. > :08:59.outfit, with white collar and white cuffs, and she faced her audience,
:08:59. > :09:06.and she did that, I think, very unapoll gettically. Certainly she's
:09:06. > :09:12.an -- apologeticly, certainly she's brought that up. She talked about
:09:12. > :09:15.trivial stuff which people found ironic. On the e-mail question with
:09:15. > :09:20.Jeremy Hunt, if he did say what he is supposed to have said, he's
:09:20. > :09:30.toast isn't he? If, it is a big if, that is the big news story that
:09:30. > :09:33.
:09:33. > :09:40.comes out of the inquiry. It was not a great day of revelations. I
:09:40. > :09:43.was taken by the puritan chic. But what was fascinating about it was
:09:43. > :09:48.seeing this person who has been one of the most powerful people in the
:09:48. > :09:51.country for a decade, or more, actually put on the spot. You
:09:51. > :09:54.realise that we haven't actually seen very much of her until now. We
:09:54. > :09:57.haven't heard her say very much. You have to remember that is
:09:57. > :10:01.probably also the first time she has been put on the spot in that
:10:01. > :10:04.way, in the course of the last decade. She has been the boss,
:10:04. > :10:08.people have been reporting to her, she asks them questions, not the
:10:08. > :10:14.other way round. I thought she was slightly thrown earlier on, she was
:10:14. > :10:19.thrown by the novelty of it. But grew in kf can dense as it went on.
:10:19. > :10:22.-- In confidence as it went on. Frederic Michel's e-mail where he's
:10:22. > :10:26.talking about Jeremy Hunt, could be talking, it is accepted, that
:10:26. > :10:31.sometimes he meant people in his office, special advisers. That
:10:31. > :10:35.might go nowhere. It could be a blow hard saying he had great
:10:35. > :10:39.contacts? It might be, I felt that part of the day, when they focused
:10:39. > :10:43.on this, they were getting somewhere fresh and specific. The
:10:43. > :10:47.early stuff, it was fascinating to see her, I thought she was witty,
:10:47. > :10:51.elegant, authoritative, I was told she's a very nervous interviewee,
:10:51. > :10:55.and hardly appeared in a studio when an editor. It revealed much
:10:55. > :10:59.about her personality, but it wasn't about her and it was about
:10:59. > :11:04.the politicians. Most specifically, it became interesting when we heard
:11:04. > :11:08.more about the degree of co- operation, between, at the very
:11:08. > :11:13.least, Jeremy Hunt's office. question was in relation to the
:11:13. > :11:15.BSkyB bid, which is the real political issue here? This is the
:11:15. > :11:20.most explosive area of this, in terms of relations with politicians,
:11:20. > :11:23.we have known about it. She said it today, actually, about 1,000 bookss
:11:23. > :11:28.will be written about new Labour and the relationship with Rupert
:11:28. > :11:37.Murdoch. And we know quite a lot about David Cameron, it doesn't do
:11:37. > :11:41.him any good at all to be up there so vividly. LOL laugh out loud.
:11:41. > :11:46.This old era is ending and he's trapped in it. The specifics on the
:11:47. > :11:50.BSkyB bid, is where it gets most dangerous for him and Jeremy Hunt.
:11:50. > :11:54.As Steve suggested, we knew some of this before about the access, I'm
:11:54. > :11:58.not sure everybody knows the details and the questions ofing,
:11:59. > :12:01.and all those things that did come -- of texting, and all those things
:12:01. > :12:06.in themselves. There is a small number of people who get together
:12:06. > :12:14.often, and take decisions on the big issues that affect the country?
:12:14. > :12:18.That very much came out today. I felt that some of the
:12:18. > :12:25.institutionalised attitudes of people who have worked in the press
:12:25. > :12:28.at that level for a long time came across. That it seemed Brooks
:12:28. > :12:33.Rebekah Brooks was a little bit blase about the kind of access that
:12:33. > :12:41.she had, and the privilege that access gives you. Most people do
:12:41. > :12:44.not have an opportunity to hob nobody with people who are -- hob
:12:44. > :12:49.nob with people who are on politicalS, and people campaign
:12:49. > :12:52.heavily for a few moments with the Prime Minister. It was a lack of
:12:52. > :12:57.awareness from her point of view, that having that amount of meetings
:12:57. > :13:03.is hugely powerful and influential, and you can't abuse it. The other
:13:03. > :13:12.big thing, which came out, a lot of Mr Jay's questioning of her, this
:13:12. > :13:16.idea of certain threats in aspect of the media. If she as a -- if as
:13:16. > :13:21.a senior politician don't do what we want, you will have bad
:13:21. > :13:24.publicity, she batted that away? That is the damaging thing,
:13:24. > :13:29.ultimately, for the political class. The story of politics over the last
:13:29. > :13:33.20 years, it has essentially become a game in which influence and power
:13:33. > :13:37.are traded. That is a thread that runs through the banking crisis,
:13:38. > :13:42.through MPs' expenses, a sense that the public isn't really invited to
:13:42. > :13:46.the party. That there is an increasingly globalised elite which
:13:46. > :13:50.conducts business and trades in its own interests. That, I think, is
:13:50. > :13:54.ultimately where the harm lies for David Cameron, because he is now,
:13:54. > :13:58.will now be painted by his opponents as being part of that. As
:13:58. > :14:02.though coming from another age. Isn't there harm for the press too.
:14:02. > :14:05.If you listen to some of it, the word wasn't used in this way, but
:14:05. > :14:08.there was a suggestion that a kind of blackmail goes on here. We in
:14:08. > :14:11.the press have a great deal of power, and if you don't support
:14:11. > :14:14.this campaign or that campaign, you will get it in the neck, we will
:14:14. > :14:21.reveal things about your private life, for example? It came up in
:14:21. > :14:25.evidence, the ridiculous business of the Sun thinking that it decided
:14:25. > :14:29.who won elections. That was always a nonsense. Which Rupert Murdoch
:14:29. > :14:33.himself thought it was a bad idea. They got totally carried away with
:14:33. > :14:37.that idea. There was a swagger, and it was most unseemly. I also think
:14:37. > :14:42.that the most important thing that came out of today, was that we now
:14:42. > :14:46.see that this inquiry, I think, is heading in a very, very troubling
:14:46. > :14:55.direction. I think you could tell from the tone of the questioning,
:14:55. > :15:01.and in certain respects, particularly on the question of of
:15:01. > :15:04.Sharon Shoesmith and Ed Balls, a the question about had she phoned
:15:04. > :15:08.the minister on the public campaign she was running. You could tell, it
:15:08. > :15:14.seems to me, that there is a mind set at the heart of the inquiry,
:15:14. > :15:18.which is, if we're not very careful, is going to lead to the protection
:15:18. > :15:22.of officialdom. Certainly up until now, everything will change now.
:15:22. > :15:25.You could sort of understand why politicians wanted to see her, and
:15:25. > :15:29.get the endorsement of the Sun. You can sort of understand why Gordon
:15:29. > :15:33.Brown was livid when he heard that wasn't going to happen on the night
:15:33. > :15:35.of his party conference speech. You can sort of understand why David
:15:35. > :15:40.Cameron and George Osbourne, who weren't getting a particularly good
:15:40. > :15:45.press, wanted a good press. These people mediate politics to their
:15:45. > :15:49.readers. She kept on saying that. So they are powerful. There is a
:15:49. > :15:53.distinction between that and getting too close to them. And
:15:53. > :15:58.certainly, when it comes to specific Government policies, then
:15:58. > :16:01.you are on really dangerous ground. Briefly, the really interesting
:16:01. > :16:05.thing was they weren't allowed to ask about phone hacking, because
:16:05. > :16:09.there is a possibility of further legal prosecutions and so on?
:16:09. > :16:13.is one of the big concerns. No questions on phone hacking, a
:16:13. > :16:16.criminal prosecution that could happen, and I truly think they are
:16:16. > :16:20.really closing up now. It is not going to be long. Running at the
:16:20. > :16:25.same time as a public inquiry, where the same people who were the
:16:25. > :16:28.key witnesses in a public inquiry, are also going to be facing very
:16:28. > :16:33.serious criminal charges. Can they have a fair trial? And how far do
:16:33. > :16:36.we take it in terms of this. That is why today was about the politics.
:16:36. > :16:46.And the police investigation is about the media.
:16:46. > :16:49.Could we be on course for the biggest eurobail-out yet, as
:16:49. > :16:53.politicians in Greece still try to form a Government and stay within
:16:53. > :16:58.the euro, a much bigger potentially problem has appeared in Spain. The
:16:58. > :17:00.extent of banking losses still isn't clear there. Paul Mason is
:17:00. > :17:04.here. Today what has essentially happened
:17:04. > :17:08.is the Spanish Government has said the bank bail-out we did in
:17:08. > :17:12.February, it was based on the wrong figures and we have to do 30
:17:12. > :17:16.billion more. It came on the day that the European Commission chose
:17:16. > :17:20.to issue a very bleak prognosis for growth across Europe. Basically
:17:20. > :17:24.there isn't going to be any for a year. That is across the 27-nation
:17:24. > :17:29.European Union. For the eurozone there will be what they call a mild
:17:29. > :17:34.recession, 0.3% shrinkage. The story is of demand trying to revive
:17:34. > :17:37.in the face of banks paying down their debts and refusing to lend to
:17:37. > :17:42.businesses. Where have we heard that before, and of Government
:17:42. > :17:45.spending cuts. Repressing the ability to recover. Spain is the
:17:45. > :17:51.test case. Its economy is shrinking badly. It has high unemployment, we
:17:51. > :17:55.are about to see another round of protests there. The bank bail-out,
:17:55. > :17:59.30 billion is a lot of money. But that is money that the Government
:17:59. > :18:05.has already borrowed from the Spanish banks, to bail them out. If
:18:05. > :18:10.you think that is confusing, watch this.
:18:10. > :18:17.Spain's problem is brutally simple, its housing bubble was so vast that
:18:17. > :18:20.it has left a wasteland of unsold, unsellable properties, and Spanish
:18:20. > :18:25.banks sitting on a mountain of bad debt. Today is the latest stage in
:18:25. > :18:32.the process of making the banks come clean. Bankia, nationalised
:18:32. > :18:35.yesterday, had lent 38 billion euros to property buyers, of that
:18:35. > :18:41.32 billion of the debt was problematic. For the whole system
:18:41. > :18:46.there is 184 billion worth of bad loan,, and sealed up properties,
:18:46. > :18:52.enough to sink the is -- loans, and sealed up property, enough to sink
:18:52. > :18:56.the system. Today the Spanish Government acted, it gave the banks
:18:56. > :19:00.a compulsory loan of 30 billion, at punishing interest rates, to shore
:19:00. > :19:07.up the economy. It may not be enough. What the Spanish economy
:19:07. > :19:14.needs is an injection of equity from the outside, perhaps from the
:19:14. > :19:20.EFSF -- he was he was, or -- whatever the banks might benefit
:19:20. > :19:26.from, in terms of the injection of equity, might actually lead to a
:19:26. > :19:29.deterioration of the fiscal situation. We are stuck in this
:19:30. > :19:33.trap where the only entities buying Spanish Government bonds have been
:19:33. > :19:39.spannic banks, and the Spanish Government is then the entity who
:19:39. > :19:42.is using the opportunity to inject capital into Spanish banks. It is
:19:42. > :19:48.smoke and mirrors. Spain is turning into the economic danger zone for
:19:48. > :19:52.Europe. It has been plaged by protests. It is predicted to shrink
:19:52. > :19:58.by 1.4% this year. Unemployment stands at 25%, and for the young,
:19:58. > :20:02.more than 50%. By the European Union is demanding
:20:02. > :20:12.spending cuts and tax rises. Few doubt where that will lead. Spain's
:20:12. > :20:15.stuck in this trap where confidence is very low, there is excessive
:20:15. > :20:20.levels of debt. Consumers, banks and corporations and the Government
:20:20. > :20:25.are all trying to pay off their debt. It cannot devalue because it
:20:25. > :20:29.is in the eurozone. Tax revenues are falling. Tomorrow looks worse
:20:29. > :20:34.than today, the day after tomorrow looks worse than tomorrow. It was
:20:34. > :20:38.Spanish youth who, a year ago today, invented the idea of occupying
:20:38. > :20:42.public space in mass protest. If today's move does not finally put
:20:42. > :20:46.the lid on the Spanish banking crisis, the country is in danger of
:20:46. > :20:55.a spiral of austerity, protest and recession. And we have already seen
:20:55. > :21:00.that played out in Greece. Speaking of Greece, where does this
:21:00. > :21:05.leave Greece, without a Government, no doubt? Without a Government, but
:21:05. > :21:08.what has happened tonight, the Socialist Party, the former
:21:08. > :21:11.Government of Greece, announced it is unable to form a Government with
:21:11. > :21:15.the coalition talks. There is likely to be another election
:21:15. > :21:19.called. What many in the mainstream in Greece hoped, was having voted
:21:19. > :21:22.for the extremes on Sunday, the Greek people would move back to the
:21:22. > :21:26.centre under the pressure of all the rhetoric coming out of Brussels
:21:26. > :21:32.and Berlin. This is not happening. The latest polls reveal that Syriza,
:21:32. > :21:37.the far left party, led by Danny Cipriani, we can see him at the
:21:37. > :21:41.celebration -- Alexis Tsipras, we can see him at the celebration
:21:41. > :21:45.rally when they got 17% in the election, they are polling 27% for
:21:45. > :21:48.this one left party alone. On my calculation, that would put them in
:21:48. > :21:52.pole position in the election and give them a third of seats in
:21:52. > :21:54.parliament. The bad news for the European centre is there are
:21:54. > :21:59.probably another 50 seats for the rest of the left. We could be
:21:59. > :22:03.within a month of seeing a real far left Government in Greece. What
:22:03. > :22:08.that would do to the euro's sent certainty, who knows. Greece won't
:22:08. > :22:12.be in the euro then? Most of the left parties want to stay in. But
:22:12. > :22:15.what they want will not allow them to stay in under current
:22:15. > :22:19.circumstances. The only thing one could see saving the Greek party
:22:19. > :22:22.system as it is, is if the European Union were able to offer a series
:22:22. > :22:26.of concessions that the centreist politicians could take back to
:22:26. > :22:30.their own voters. We came with a piece of paper, we got something.
:22:30. > :22:37.All the rhetoric, the Germans have voters too, coming out of Berlin is
:22:37. > :22:41.no way, this is not going to happen. This week's convictions of the men
:22:41. > :22:44.behind the Rochdale sex grooming network, have raised serious
:22:44. > :22:48.concerns about the protection of children in care, or perhaps the
:22:48. > :22:52.lack of protection. The Rochdale men preyed on teenagers, plying
:22:52. > :22:55.them with drink and drugs, and found their victims very often from
:22:55. > :23:00.the most vulnerable. People who perhaps could have expected the
:23:00. > :23:04.state to do for more them. The nine men convicted in Rochdale
:23:04. > :23:09.for abusing girls as young as 13, targeted those who were typically
:23:09. > :23:19.in care, or on at-risk registers. One 15-year-old was the sole
:23:19. > :23:20.
:23:20. > :23:25.resident of a �250,000, round -the- clock air -- care home, who went
:23:25. > :23:29.missing 19 times overnight in one month. There were recorded 631
:23:29. > :23:33.recorded incidents of children being sold for sex in the last five
:23:33. > :23:36.years. The children's minister told MPs this week it was impossible to
:23:37. > :23:40.know the extent and numbers of children missing from care, because
:23:40. > :23:44.of erratic data collection, which he said caused concern and
:23:44. > :23:49.confusion. Since the 2008 trial, following the
:23:49. > :23:52.death of Baby Peter, care applications have risen by 57%.
:23:52. > :23:56.But with increasing pressure on the services, and Rochdale only the
:23:56. > :24:02.latest case in a failing system, how can we deliver proper
:24:02. > :24:07.protection. Here to discuss what's going wrong
:24:07. > :24:10.are the poet Lemn Sissay, who spent 18 years in the care system as a
:24:10. > :24:13.child, and Sue Berelowittz, who is Deputy Children's Commissioner for
:24:13. > :24:17.England, and has been asked this week by the he had case secretary
:24:17. > :24:20.to make recommendations for tackling the targeted sexual
:24:20. > :24:23.exploitation of children in care. I take it you don't have much
:24:23. > :24:27.surprise, that the people targeted by this kind of gang, were people
:24:27. > :24:33.in care or at risk, because they are vulnerable? It doesn't surprise
:24:33. > :24:37.me at all. It seems that every few years a case comes up with a
:24:37. > :24:42.vulnerable child, who has been in care, has suffered from some kind
:24:42. > :24:48.of abuse. Look, the Government is the parent of the child. The legal
:24:48. > :24:53.parent of the child in care. And therefore, we should give that
:24:53. > :24:58.child exemplary service, as a parent would to its child.
:24:58. > :25:03.suspect that everybody listened -- listening to this, from whatever
:25:03. > :25:10.political background, would agree with this. It always puzles me why
:25:10. > :25:14.people in care aren't cared for in a better way? That is a very good
:25:15. > :25:18.question. The quality of care in places are good and in other places
:25:18. > :25:22.it is not good enough. I meet children moved from one placement
:25:22. > :25:26.to another. I met a child the other day, who actually stopped counting
:25:26. > :25:30.at 25, he was recount to go me all the placements he had, between the
:25:30. > :25:38.ages of three and 17. Imagine what it is like to move 25 times in that
:25:38. > :25:42.period of your life. It is just not good enough. What about the case of
:25:42. > :25:46.the girl we heard this week in the �250,000 home and she managed to
:25:46. > :25:53.get out 19 times in three months. That is twice a week. How can that
:25:53. > :25:56.happen? I can understand in so far as care homes, like anybody's home,
:25:56. > :26:01.don't have locked doors. Children aren't locked into them, unless
:26:01. > :26:04.they are in a secure unit. Children can come and go. As it was said,
:26:04. > :26:09.the people who are running the homes, and the local authorities,
:26:09. > :26:13.are the parents of the child. It is their responsibility, just like any
:26:13. > :26:18.good parent, to make sure that their children are safe, that they
:26:18. > :26:21.know where their children are going, that they get them back safely at
:26:21. > :26:25.night. The problem is often that a child runs away from home, because
:26:26. > :26:29.they want somebody to find them that cares for them. This is why
:26:29. > :26:34.children run away from children's homes, what happens is the police
:26:34. > :26:39.are sent to them. Because they fall into an institutional pattern then.
:26:39. > :26:42.A child runs away from home to see somebody, they want to be found, I
:26:42. > :26:48.think psychalogically, they want somebody who loves them to find
:26:48. > :26:58.them. Or who cares for them. Underlying this is the film yart of
:26:58. > :27:02.some of this. Familiar familiarity of this. You have been tasked with
:27:02. > :27:06.this review, why does it take so long to get handle on this? What
:27:06. > :27:13.I'm actually looking at is the sexual exploitation of children.
:27:13. > :27:18.Nobody knows exactly what the scale and extent of it is. We are using
:27:18. > :27:24.the Children's Commissioner's powers to get hold of the
:27:24. > :27:28.information and -- the information and find out what is happening. My
:27:28. > :27:33.initial plan was a report in September of this year, I launched
:27:33. > :27:38.in October, giving facts and figures in terms of who is doing
:27:38. > :27:42.what to whom in what circumstances. I'm tired of reviews, I'm tired of
:27:42. > :27:49.the idea that change is needed. We are all parents, the Government,
:27:49. > :27:54.the social services are parents. We know how to look after our own
:27:54. > :27:58.children, how can we not transfer what we know about looking after
:27:58. > :28:02.our own children, to the children who we are legally the parents of.
:28:02. > :28:06.Why do we need another review. Is that more accountable to the
:28:06. > :28:11.institution, rather than it is to the actual children we are supposed
:28:11. > :28:17.to be caring for. Who is this review actually for? I'm not doing
:28:17. > :28:22.a review. What I'm doing is an inquiry. An inquiry? Nobody knows
:28:22. > :28:27.the extent of the sexual exploitation of children. I'm doing
:28:27. > :28:32.it. In 2012? We can build an Olympic site, but we can't work out
:28:32. > :28:38.how many of our own children n our own care, for our own Government,
:28:38. > :28:43.sorry, I apologise. Just let her have a go? I'm looking not only at
:28:43. > :28:46.children in the care system, but all children being sexually
:28:46. > :28:49.exploited. The Secretary of State is particularly, at the moment,
:28:49. > :28:53.worried about children in care, being sexually exploited. We are
:28:53. > :28:57.worried about all children being sexually exploited. Just this
:28:57. > :29:00.Government, or any Government, Michael Gove or anybody else, to
:29:00. > :29:05.actually act on what you finally produce? They are going to need to
:29:05. > :29:12.act. And the first task is to get people to wake up to the scale of
:29:12. > :29:14.what's going on. Our findings telling us, that actually this is
:29:14. > :29:18.very widespread. Nobody should be confident that there is any part of
:29:18. > :29:23.our country in which children are not being sexually exploited.
:29:23. > :29:27.We have run out of time. We're standing by with the review show in
:29:27. > :29:31.a minute. What have you got? More lively discussion from us as
:29:31. > :29:35.well as you guys, tonight we are covering a quartet of literary
:29:35. > :29:42.heavyweights on a book special. New novels from Hilary Mantel, John
:29:43. > :29:47.Irving and Mark Haddon, as well as the much anticipated follow-up to
:29:47. > :29:51.The Suspicions of Mr Whicher, join me with Kate Mosse, John Mullen and