:00:13. > :00:22.It started in Greece, it's heading for London, and it's definitely
:00:22. > :00:26.going to cost a lot of money. Predictions of contagion follow a
:00:26. > :00:30.possible Greek exit tonight, as the world's richest leaders gather at
:00:30. > :00:35.Camp David, the top of the agenda, save the eurozone. They have been
:00:35. > :00:39.sizing up the French President, as we come on air strikes he has been
:00:39. > :00:43.meeting another new friend for cordial advice. They can't keep
:00:43. > :00:48.kicking the can down the road, decisive about banks, Greece and
:00:48. > :00:52.the firewall. This is in Britain's interest too. All eyes are on
:00:52. > :00:56.Francois Hollande. But will the platform he's just been elected on
:00:56. > :01:00.make agreement even harder. In Greece, with a political crisis
:01:00. > :01:05.on top of a chronic economic crisis, what's it like to be running a
:01:05. > :01:08.Greek town when the Runcies out. Lg TRANSLATION: We hope to get support
:01:08. > :01:11.from central Government or the EU, if this doesn't happen the council
:01:11. > :01:17.will collapse, and we will have to return to our old currency the
:01:17. > :01:20.drachma, and we will be bankrupt. We will hear from Mohamed El-Erian
:01:20. > :01:24.who runs one of the world's leading investment companies, and the views
:01:25. > :01:27.from Germany, Greece and here at home. Away from the economy. What
:01:28. > :01:31.sort of advice do you get here. Would you like the Government to
:01:31. > :01:36.help you be a good parent. David Cameron thinks you might. Is this
:01:36. > :01:46.almost literally the nanny state. Kirstie Allsop debates with the
:01:46. > :01:50.Centre for Parenting Studies. Good evening, one of the reasons
:01:50. > :01:53.American Presidents like taking foreigners to Camp David, is to
:01:53. > :02:01.remove them from distractions, like playing to the media back home.
:02:01. > :02:04.Tonight the leaders of the G8 are sequestered in the presidential
:02:04. > :02:09.retreat in The Very Hungry Caterpillar mountain, surrounded by
:02:09. > :02:12.trees and discussing the world economy. There are report that is
:02:12. > :02:18.Angela Merkel called the Greece President suggesting he hold a
:02:18. > :02:23.referendum on whether Greece is in or out of the euro, in parallel
:02:23. > :02:29.with elections. This is disputed. Do we face a meltdown and more
:02:29. > :02:36.economic chaos. Is Greece going to dominate the
:02:36. > :02:41.talks? It will dominate the talks. There was a full agenda for the
:02:41. > :02:44.meeting, they are not so frequent these get togethers of leading
:02:44. > :02:48.industrial heads of state in Government. People tell me there
:02:48. > :02:51.were issues like the Arab Spring, Iran's nuclear programme. Very
:02:51. > :02:54.important for America should petrol reserves be released on to the
:02:54. > :03:00.world market, to keep the prices down for the US elections. But,
:03:00. > :03:06.they are all being asked about this Greek question, and in that sense,
:03:06. > :03:11.it is an inconvenient franc. For Mr Cameron, this is his first --
:03:11. > :03:20.factor. For Mr Cameron, that is his first chance to speak to Francois
:03:20. > :03:25.Hollande. The agenda, it is said, was meant to be about making
:03:25. > :03:29.friends. There is no conflict between austerity and growth, you
:03:29. > :03:34.need a strong deficit reduction for growth. President Hollande believes
:03:34. > :03:39.that, I believe that, I'm looking forward to meeting him. The French
:03:39. > :03:43.plan looks at doing it faster than the British plan, I'm looking
:03:43. > :03:47.forward to common agendas. Are they any closer on any agreement about
:03:47. > :03:52.what to do about Greece? In one sense, some people are saying the
:03:52. > :03:55.buzz is they don't have to be closer just yet. There will be
:03:55. > :03:59.another important European meeting next week, in which they hope to
:03:59. > :04:01.get a more coherent line about this growth versus austerity thing that
:04:01. > :04:06.the Prime Minister was talking about there. They also, of course,
:04:06. > :04:09.have to wait for the outcome of this next Greek election, before
:04:09. > :04:13.they can say definitive things. They have got a bit of breathing
:04:13. > :04:16.space. But there are interesting noises coming out. Mr Hollande, in
:04:16. > :04:21.the Oval Office, with President Obama this evening, saying you know,
:04:22. > :04:24.Greece mustn't come out of the euro, we must move towards them. Quite a
:04:24. > :04:27.positive-sounding message from him. There of course we have the sense
:04:27. > :04:31.over the last couple of days of people almost ganging up on the
:04:31. > :04:35.Germans, to say, look, ease up here, give them more time, be creative in
:04:35. > :04:38.your thinking, put some growth into the mixture. All with the aim,
:04:38. > :04:43.obviously, of stimulating growth more widely, but also helping
:04:43. > :04:47.Greece off the hook. This German line about, or line coming out of
:04:47. > :04:50.Greece, that the Germans are saying please have a referendum of in or
:04:50. > :04:52.out of Europe, in parallel with the parliamentary elections, that is
:04:52. > :04:55.very interesting, isn't it. It is right at the heart of the Greek
:04:56. > :05:02.dilemma? It is very interesting, but I have to tell you, we simply
:05:02. > :05:06.don't know what happened. The Greek President's statement -- spokesman,
:05:06. > :05:11.said this afternoon there had been a phone call with Angela Merkel,
:05:11. > :05:16.she had suggested a referendum, in or out of the euro to be added to
:05:17. > :05:21.the ballot paper. Almost instantly the Germans denied t the Greeks
:05:21. > :05:24.have reacted with outrage saying it smacks of interference with their
:05:24. > :05:28.affairs. It might be a neat political idea, but now it will be
:05:28. > :05:33.more difficult than ever to get it into that election. Mohamed El-
:05:33. > :05:37.Erian runs the global investment company, PIMCO, the world's largest
:05:37. > :05:44.bond investors. He joined me from California a few moments ago. Mr
:05:44. > :05:46.El-Erian, is Greece on its way out of the euro? The probability of
:05:46. > :05:50.Greece exiting the euro is increasing every day. The reason
:05:50. > :05:53.why it is increasing every day is because depositors are losing
:05:53. > :05:58.confidence. There is a saying that says if you see a line outside a
:05:58. > :06:01.bank, join it. And if your money isn't in that bank go, to another
:06:01. > :06:05.bank and join the line there. What we are seeing is we are seeing that
:06:05. > :06:08.the Greek depositors are worrying about the safety of their savings.
:06:08. > :06:13.If they continue to worry like that, and pull their money out, then
:06:13. > :06:16.Greece will be forced to exit. Right, so should we really worry
:06:17. > :06:25.about contagion, or is this just a little economy, and we shouldn't
:06:25. > :06:28.care? It is a little economy, but we should care. The reason why, is
:06:28. > :06:32.there is neither mechanism or precedent for anybody exiting the
:06:32. > :06:38.eurozone. Nobody is quite sure how it happens, and no-one is quite
:06:38. > :06:42.sure what happens there after. So there is likely to be a lot of
:06:42. > :06:48.uncertainty. People will naturally pull back from the market place.
:06:48. > :06:52.People will get cautious, and that, in itself, will translate contagion.
:06:52. > :06:57.The second issue is people will wonder who is next, if Greece goes.
:06:57. > :07:07.And people will focus particularly on Portugal. So while a Greek exit
:07:07. > :07:10.is becoming increasingly inevitable, it is also increasing --
:07:10. > :07:13.increasingly inevitable that it will be messy. At the summit this
:07:13. > :07:17.weekend, do you expect Obama, Hollande and Cameron, all to be
:07:17. > :07:22.leaning very heavily on Merkel to do more, to stop Greece from
:07:22. > :07:26.leaving? I suspect that the Americans will tell the European
:07:26. > :07:29.counterparts what everybody is telling their European counterparts,
:07:29. > :07:34.which is that you need to get ahead of the crisis not just catch up
:07:34. > :07:37.with it, but ahead of it. I suspect we will hear all the right things,
:07:37. > :07:43.including comments like they want Greece to remain in the eurozone.
:07:43. > :07:46.So the narrative will be supportive. The problem is the narrative is not
:07:46. > :07:52.sufficient it is not clear the Europeans are willing to do what is
:07:52. > :07:56.sufficient, especially given how messy the politics have become in
:07:56. > :08:00.Greece itself. Does that mean that in the case of Britain wrecks
:08:00. > :08:06.should prepare for an even longer recession, and in the case of the
:08:06. > :08:09.United States, you should prepare for your recovery being derailed
:08:09. > :08:14.stkph Yes, this means it will be much more difficult for any
:08:14. > :08:16.individual country to grow. When you lose your markets overseas, and
:08:16. > :08:23.in particular when you lose your markets in the biggest economic
:08:24. > :08:27.region in the world, it makes it that much tougher to grow, that
:08:27. > :08:33.much tough Tory generate jobs and revenue for the budget. The
:08:33. > :08:38.challenges that face countries like Britain and the US increases. The
:08:38. > :08:45.good news is neither country is near a break point. This is not
:08:45. > :08:54.tipping a country over a cliff, but rather making the recovery process
:08:54. > :08:57.more difficult than it is already. Greece, of course, is currently
:08:57. > :09:02.without an elected Government. New elections are scheduled for next
:09:02. > :09:06.month. It is thought the far left opposed to the bail out package may
:09:06. > :09:09.do well. Tim Whewell has been to the small Greek towns to find out
:09:09. > :09:16.what life is like when the money runs out.
:09:16. > :09:20.It is the town they boast that paid for the Parthenum, the silver
:09:20. > :09:25.exported from the harbour, two-and- a-half millennia ago, filled the
:09:25. > :09:31.coffers of nearby Athens. And the precious metal was mined here again
:09:31. > :09:36.in the 1880s, when French engineers built this bridge to carry the ore
:09:36. > :09:46.on to ships. But the mines are long closed. And this town, like the
:09:46. > :09:49.rest of Greece, is running out of money. The Deputy Mayor helps run a
:09:49. > :09:53.town where nearly one in three is unemployed.
:09:53. > :09:59.At the end of the week, when hundreds of millions of euros were
:09:59. > :10:02.withdrawn from Greek banks by nervous depositor, and Germany
:10:02. > :10:05.warned there would be no more international bail out money,
:10:05. > :10:12.unless Greece sticks to commitments to cut and cut again, he has to
:10:12. > :10:16.work out how to pay the council's 360 staff. TRANSLATION: It's
:10:16. > :10:20.dramatic, we only have money to cover two months worth of salaries.
:10:20. > :10:24.After two months what will happen then? We hope to get support from
:10:24. > :10:28.central Government or the EU. But if this doesn't happen, the council
:10:28. > :10:34.will collapse. We will have to return to our old currency, the
:10:34. > :10:38.drachma, we will be bankrupt. Shopping should have been the
:10:38. > :10:42.town's salvation, after the local textile industry followed mining
:10:42. > :10:50.into oblivion. Tourists, they hoped, would flock here, when the Metro
:10:50. > :10:55.line was extended from Athens. But the Metro never came. This man has
:10:55. > :11:00.seen sales in his shop decline by 30%, since the recession began to
:11:00. > :11:04.bite, four or five years ago. TRANSLATION: It is very difficult,
:11:04. > :11:07.people you have employed for many years are like a family. They are
:11:07. > :11:15.not just employees. These people could be out on the street, and you
:11:15. > :11:20.don't know what the future will hold for them. This is a town,
:11:20. > :11:24.built on broken dreams. Not surprising, then, that people voted
:11:24. > :11:29.overwhelmingly last week to punish the main parties. Opting instead
:11:29. > :11:33.for the radicals, of right and left. And all the signs are, that they
:11:33. > :11:38.will do the same thing again in the new elections next month.
:11:38. > :11:48.A leap into the unknown, they feel, that can't be more dangerous than
:11:48. > :11:51.
:11:51. > :11:54.the hopeless reality they know. The moat tro, nobody prefers this
:11:54. > :12:04.place of business so they don't come here.
:12:04. > :12:06.
:12:06. > :12:10.The local politician was once popular here, in this town, PASOK
:12:10. > :12:14.came fifth, barely ahead of the far right. This man hopes the good
:12:14. > :12:18.times will return to his party and his town.
:12:18. > :12:22.If you bring the Metro here, there will be a revival, not only for the
:12:22. > :12:27.region, but for the whole region. You are just kidding yourself, the
:12:27. > :12:32.truth is, the Metro will never come, because the money isn't there?
:12:32. > :12:39.believe the new Government will renegotiate the terms of the bail
:12:39. > :12:43.out. Not to go out, to renegotiate, so with new terms, realistic terms,
:12:43. > :12:49.and in the spot we are, we believe OK now we are in the bottom of the
:12:49. > :12:54.sea, now the only thing is to drown or go up. The young people here say
:12:54. > :12:57.they want the euro, but the immediate benefit of the EU to them
:12:57. > :13:02.is less its currency than its jobs market. More and more are moving
:13:02. > :13:07.abroad, or planning to. Like this young man, who trained as a captain
:13:07. > :13:14.in Greece's most emblematic industry, shipping, but can't find
:13:14. > :13:22.work here. We love our country, but we have to see hope in order to
:13:22. > :13:26.stay here. Here there is no hope. The clouds over this once famous
:13:26. > :13:31.port aren't lined with any silver now. Greece says Germany's
:13:31. > :13:35.Chancellor Merkel has suggested Greeks hold a referendum on euro
:13:35. > :13:39.membership, that is hotly denied in Berlin. In this town most refuse to
:13:39. > :13:42.believe that Greece has to make the choice any way. But events Maysoon
:13:42. > :13:47.prove them wrong. Here in the studio the nation's of
:13:47. > :13:53.Europe are represented from Greece, we have The Nation's magazine,
:13:53. > :13:56.Maria Margaronis, from Germany's Focus magazine, Imke Henkel, from
:13:57. > :14:01.down the road, Fraser Nelson. Whatever you make of this
:14:01. > :14:04.referendum idea, it goes to the idea heart of the dilemma for
:14:04. > :14:09.Greece. You can't have it all, you can't be in the euro and not accept
:14:09. > :14:13.the conditions for being in the euro? What people are hoping for
:14:13. > :14:17.Greece, is this impossible dilemma will shift, with the election of
:14:17. > :14:20.Hollande, the remarks made by President Obama yesterday, and the
:14:20. > :14:24.general mood shifting from austerity, and the sense that this
:14:24. > :14:30.is a crisis point. Either Greece will have to leave the euro, which
:14:30. > :14:35.will be immensely costly, it was estimated at 225 billion euros, or
:14:36. > :14:39.staying in, which will cost 65 billion euros, something will have
:14:39. > :14:43.to give. There is a real sense that if we stick to our guns something
:14:43. > :14:47.might change in Europe. And meaning in Germany, presumably?
:14:47. > :14:52.Particularly in Germany. What is Merkel's strategy, is it we must
:14:52. > :14:55.keep the euro at any cost, we are prisoners of our history, we have
:14:56. > :14:59.to be good neighbours and this has to work? I think that is very much
:14:59. > :15:04.the strategy. It really goes back to the euro being a political
:15:04. > :15:07.project. Not an economic project. It is interesting, recently someone
:15:07. > :15:13.from the Government said, we went into the euro, not to become rich,
:15:13. > :15:16.but to live in peace and to live in safety. Which is a totally
:15:16. > :15:21.different thing. That is really at the core of the problems we are
:15:21. > :15:26.seeing today. We mentioned contradictions with Maria, but
:15:26. > :15:29.there is conflict with Germany, it goes back to German history, not
:15:29. > :15:33.rewarding bad behaviour and making sure people pay their taxes, that
:15:33. > :15:37.is not going down well at home? is not, part of it is really the
:15:37. > :15:42.political failure that the Germans were pitched against the Greeks.
:15:42. > :15:45.And that we were told, we are the hard working really industrious
:15:45. > :15:49.people, and the lazy Greeks and we have to pay for them. That is not
:15:49. > :15:53.true. For example, if you look at the pension age, the average
:15:53. > :16:01.pension age for Germans and Greeks is about the same. It is not as if
:16:01. > :16:05.Greeks would go earlier. The problem for Greece is corruption
:16:05. > :16:09.and elites. Germany did profit from the euro. It is a political failure
:16:09. > :16:13.that at so point, and the politicians were clear enough
:16:13. > :16:17.saying, we get something out of it, and that's why we have to pay.
:16:17. > :16:23.Fraser, I wonder, listening to David Cameron today, there are
:16:23. > :16:27.contradictions in his position, we must have eurobonds and centralised
:16:27. > :16:31.fiscal authority, he sounds like they were ten years ago, we must
:16:31. > :16:37.have this fiscal state, but we will not be in it? He reckons he knows a
:16:37. > :16:44.solution for Europe, that you can have currency union without
:16:44. > :16:49.political union, he thinks they should merge and France and Germany
:16:49. > :16:53.cool their tax and cuts and spending. Britain is now offering
:16:53. > :16:57.diagnosis on the continent, where once it wouldn't have done. His
:16:57. > :17:01.problem, of course, David Cameron, is that pretty soon this will come
:17:01. > :17:05.to head. I suspect that Greece will leave the EU, therefore it might be
:17:05. > :17:09.up for renegotiation again. And he will have to come and work out what
:17:09. > :17:12.relationship he wants with the rest of Europe. If this does go bang,
:17:12. > :17:16.that is his opportunity to say it's time to stop giving advice to them,
:17:16. > :17:20.and start saying what Britain wants out of this. Will it be for
:17:20. > :17:25.ordinary Greek people a real humiliation to leave, or be kicked
:17:25. > :17:29.out, however you phrase it, we failed some how to live up to the
:17:29. > :17:35.expectations? I think at this point the humiliation has already been so
:17:35. > :17:39.great. The humiliation of putting one this austerity being described,
:17:39. > :17:45.movingly said, as the corrupt lazy ones who have caused the whole
:17:45. > :17:49.European crisis. I think what leaving the euro will mean is more
:17:49. > :17:53.a sense of political chaos, there is a great fear about it, it is are
:17:53. > :17:58.we going to continue to be beaten up or are we going to jump off the
:17:58. > :18:02.cliff. Which is a great choice! think for Greece too Europe was
:18:02. > :18:05.very much a political project. It was about coming out of
:18:05. > :18:10.dictatorship and becoming part of the community of nations. What we
:18:10. > :18:13.have seen now is a political polarisation in Greece, that we
:18:13. > :18:18.haven't seen since before the dictatorship. We are seeing neo-
:18:18. > :18:24.fascist MPs for the first time in parliament. This is bad for the
:18:24. > :18:29.German psyche too, presumptionably, you have Angela Merkel, this great
:18:29. > :18:33.bully -- presumptionably, you have Angela Merkel telling us what to do.
:18:33. > :18:42.If you have the Italian Government and what we prefer in France and
:18:42. > :18:47.Greece, that is extremely bad for Germany's self-image? Absolutely.
:18:47. > :18:52.It goes back to the creation of the euro as a political project. At the
:18:52. > :18:57.foundations they thought they could force the political unity through
:18:57. > :19:01.the economic unity. And now we have to pay dearly for it. The tragedy
:19:01. > :19:06.is, quite the contrary, they are not living in peace, we are not
:19:06. > :19:10.living safe, we have riots in Greece, we have the threat of
:19:10. > :19:16.possible quite extreme Government in Greece. We don't know about
:19:16. > :19:21.Spain. Spain is coming out, Spain was a dictatorship in the 1970s,
:19:21. > :19:26.Portugal was. Europe now, all of a sudden, instead of coming to this
:19:26. > :19:31.political unity, is instead on the brink of coming apart and being a
:19:32. > :19:36.danger. Is that how you see it, in the sense that it could be Spain
:19:36. > :19:41.next or Portugal next, as it was suggested, people will look for the
:19:41. > :19:45.next weakest link. Once one can go from the unbreakable union, anybody
:19:45. > :19:50.can go? Greece's economy is broadly about the size of the south-east of
:19:50. > :19:53.England. It is not a big chunk in the europuzzle, if one country can
:19:53. > :19:57.go and the drachma came back. It would be great for Greece, it would
:19:57. > :20:00.plunge in value, and be competitive again. We would go there on holiday
:20:00. > :20:04.next year. But it does set a precedent for Spain and the others,
:20:04. > :20:12.if there is one, if an exit path is beaten by Greece, with what's to
:20:12. > :20:15.stop the whole thing unravelling. Might end up basically with a
:20:15. > :20:19.harder cue, which is what the Germans would have liked. Do you
:20:19. > :20:24.accept the analysis that it is terrible for Britain, and it will
:20:24. > :20:28.prolong the recession and deepen in it? I don't, there are no good
:20:28. > :20:32.options in the eurocrisis. What is happening now is not good for
:20:32. > :20:35.Britain. You are facing a continent with internal devaluation, that is
:20:35. > :20:39.an agonising ten years of incredible austerity, that is not
:20:39. > :20:45.good for us. Our main trading partner will be on its knees, not
:20:45. > :20:48.just now, but the next ten years, there must be a quicker and better
:20:49. > :20:53.way out. It is curious that Greece, the smallest economy, holds the
:20:53. > :20:58.fate of all of us in its hands? This is a myth. We began with the
:20:58. > :21:01.myth that the eurocrisis was caused by Greek corruption and laziness,
:21:01. > :21:06.now we have the fate of the eurozone depending on the Greek
:21:06. > :21:10.elections. It doesn't. There was not a single party on May 6th that
:21:10. > :21:15.didn't demand some negotiations, some change in the austerity
:21:15. > :21:18.programme. Including PASOK, the people who brought it in. They
:21:18. > :21:23.asked for a year's extension. They knew snob would vote for them if
:21:23. > :21:27.they said it would continue as before. The fate of the euro
:21:27. > :21:31.depends on the European Commission decides, and the IMF and Angela
:21:31. > :21:34.Merkel. Angela Merkel's ears must be burning in Camp David, she must
:21:35. > :21:39.be under a lot of pressure? She's also under a lot of pressure at
:21:39. > :21:43.home. The debate is definitely in Germany is switching towards more
:21:44. > :21:50.growth. Even from her own Finance Minister. But I think there is
:21:50. > :21:55.something moving something is giving already. You are quite right,
:21:55. > :21:59.it is possible that Greece defaults and still stays in the euro and the
:21:59. > :22:04.whole project goes on. The Fiscal Compact, with all its problems, is
:22:05. > :22:10.the preparation for that to happen. It does actually prolong this
:22:10. > :22:14.mistake of putting economics in front of politics.
:22:14. > :22:16.You need lessons to drive car, why shouldn't you also need lessons to
:22:16. > :22:19.be a parent. That was the gist of David Cameron's thoughts on the
:22:19. > :22:22.Government helping pay for parenting lessons, to help solve,
:22:22. > :22:27.not just problems within families, but in society more generally.
:22:27. > :22:35.Is this almost literally the nanny state. Or a bit of original
:22:35. > :22:39.thinking. Our political editor, Allegra Stratton report.
:22:39. > :22:44.Happy families are supposed to be alike. Every unhappy family is
:22:44. > :22:53.supposed to be unhappy in its own way. But happy or at each other's
:22:53. > :22:56.throats, keeping home fires burning is no cinch. I often find, still
:22:56. > :23:05.find, I have three, and the youngest is not yet two, I still
:23:05. > :23:09.sometimes think I would love a bit more information about how to do
:23:09. > :23:12.things sometimes. This one is for fans of counter
:23:12. > :23:18.factual history, BC Dave, or before the financial crash, David Cameron,
:23:18. > :23:24.is making a comeback, this week we have had family policy, and next
:23:24. > :23:26.week we have NHS policy. The idea is to remind people of the soft
:23:26. > :23:31.soak Prime Minister David Cameron might have been before the crash
:23:31. > :23:35.and the cuts in the NHS, his adviser from earlier days, Steve
:23:35. > :23:43.Hilton, today left for California. The Government is asserting that
:23:43. > :23:47.his ideas didn't go with him. So, the Government has announced
:23:47. > :23:51.�100 parenting voucher, to be picked up from boots, an on-line
:23:51. > :23:55.information service for new parents. Advice by text message and e-mail
:23:55. > :23:58.for those with babies under the age of one month. It is also looking at
:23:58. > :24:02.bigger reforms to bring down the cost of childcare. Freeing up the
:24:02. > :24:06.red tape on who can become a childminder, to allow more to enter
:24:06. > :24:09.the market. And even the possibility it would allow parents
:24:09. > :24:12.tax breaks on childcare. You couldn't have a better example of
:24:12. > :24:16.the difficulties for Government of walking and chewing gum at the same
:24:16. > :24:21.time. They have long wanted to talk less about the deficit strictly in
:24:21. > :24:25.terms of cuts, and more about family issues, as families actually
:24:25. > :24:30.experience them. This week they scheduled a speech on the family,
:24:30. > :24:34.they jettisoned it, for what? A speech on the deficit. Nonetheless,
:24:34. > :24:38.the Prime Minister was only momentarily knocked off his stride.
:24:38. > :24:43.And this morning, before jet to go the G8, he went ahead with the
:24:43. > :24:46.fresh push for families. The plan is not just to return to the early
:24:46. > :24:49.ideas from top opposition, but early Cameron ideas. Back to the
:24:49. > :24:54.period when the leader of the party polled so much better than the rest.
:24:54. > :25:00.My wife and daughter are fast asleep, they may turn up at some
:25:00. > :25:03.stage. Someone said I'm heading for the perfect storm, children and
:25:03. > :25:08.moving house, and leadership of the Conservative Party.
:25:08. > :25:12.Perfect storm or not, it was perfect optics for his political
:25:12. > :25:15.strategists, that era was political gold. But while they may want to
:25:15. > :25:19.recreate those atmospherics, some on his own side are troubled. They
:25:19. > :25:22.believe the ideas floated today show too much money being spent,
:25:22. > :25:28.straying too deeply into our private lives. Parenting is not,
:25:28. > :25:32.they believe, something the state can teach you. There is also a
:25:32. > :25:37.subtle shift. Where as in opposition, David Cameron's
:25:37. > :25:41.emphasis on the fm family was about showing he was a modern man, but a
:25:41. > :25:45.Conservative modern man. Now they are downplaying that, it is more an
:25:45. > :25:50.economic an all sits, it is about the cost of living. If they could
:25:50. > :25:54.offer childcare tax breaks to some women in work, that could target
:25:54. > :25:59.swing voters. As Newsnight has said before, the next election will be
:25:59. > :26:04.fought on the cost of living. the cost of everything, energy
:26:04. > :26:06.bills, food, and childcare. That is the reason why childcare has moved
:26:06. > :26:10.centre stage politically, and political parties jockeying for
:26:10. > :26:14.different ways to bring down the cost to make it more flexible and
:26:14. > :26:17.useful for people. Happy political parties are so rare it is difficult
:26:18. > :26:22.to tell if they are alike. But unhappy mid-term parties are
:26:22. > :26:27.definitely unhappy in their own way. In helping families towards some
:26:27. > :26:32.peace of mind, this Government might be hoping a little joy rubs
:26:32. > :26:40.off along the way. Kirstie Allsop is an ambassador for
:26:40. > :26:45.the parenting charity, Home-Start, and we have head of the studies on
:26:45. > :26:47.parents for the University of Kent. Why does David Cameron care so much
:26:47. > :26:51.about this? Everybody cares who has children. Either you believe you
:26:51. > :26:56.can learn to be a better parent, or you think we all sink and swim and
:26:56. > :27:00.do it on ifpb stinct. He thinks you can learn to be a better parent.
:27:00. > :27:05.And the state should pay for that? I think that if we accept that xaps
:27:05. > :27:10.in the first years of your life is so -- what happens in the first
:27:10. > :27:13.years of your life, is so key to the rest of your life, then yes,
:27:13. > :27:15.the state should go involved to some extent in paying for that.
:27:16. > :27:19.you think the state should pay, because it is important for all of
:27:20. > :27:24.us and society? I fundamentally disagree with the thesis, at least
:27:24. > :27:29.Kirsty has brought out into the open that the flip side to parent
:27:29. > :27:32.training is parent blaming. The other side to all of this a very
:27:32. > :27:35.long-term argument which stretches right back to the beginning of new
:27:35. > :27:39.Labour. So it's not as if it was just yesterday that politicians
:27:39. > :27:43.have started saying that parenting is too important and too difficult
:27:43. > :27:47.to be left up to ordinary mums and dads. They have argued this for a
:27:47. > :27:51.very long time, predicated on what I perceive and believe to be an
:27:51. > :27:54.utterly dogmatic view, that what happens in the very early years of
:27:54. > :27:58.life is utterly crucial, and determines the course of, not only
:27:58. > :28:02.the lives of children, but how society generally turns out. Dose
:28:02. > :28:06.doesn't it? I don't think social problems are caused by how long
:28:06. > :28:09.women breast-feed for, how much tele they let their children watch.
:28:09. > :28:14.I don't think children's brains are being shrunken by parents at home,
:28:14. > :28:21.which on the front cover of coalition documents, there are
:28:21. > :28:24.images of shrunken brains. It is a ridiculous thesis. I'm completely
:28:24. > :28:28.with you on breast-feeding and television. That is not the issue.
:28:28. > :28:31.There are a lot of families now who are feeling pretty desperate, they
:28:31. > :28:36.are working longer hours, far more mothers working than before.
:28:36. > :28:41.Parents who are living far closer, far further from their parents than
:28:41. > :28:46.ever before. Society has changed enormously. Making childcare more
:28:46. > :28:49.affordable would be one way of doing it? We used to parent in
:28:49. > :28:54.groups. If somebody wasn't good at it, there was an aunt, a
:28:54. > :28:58.grandmother and a sibling to step in. We didn't do it in the
:28:58. > :29:03.extraordinarily lonely way we now do it. I think the loneliness is
:29:03. > :29:07.created by the fetishisation of parenting. The more you communicate
:29:07. > :29:11.to ordinary mums and dads the idea that essentially ordinary, every
:29:11. > :29:15.day thoughts of ordinary every day people are just not good enough
:29:16. > :29:20.when bringing up kids. And you need to talk to a professional. You have
:29:20. > :29:24.a created a culture where you he is strange parents from mums and dads
:29:24. > :29:29.and neighbours. You are not talking about professionals, they are
:29:29. > :29:33.volunteer mums and dads. Who has trained them. It is a myth that
:29:33. > :29:36.this is some how coming from below, it isn't? We know that you cannot,
:29:36. > :29:41.if you didn't receive good parenting yourself, it is very
:29:41. > :29:46.difficult to be a good parent. The things that you and I accept as
:29:46. > :29:50.totally normal, lots of sleep, lots of routine. You know, good
:29:50. > :29:55.understanding that no is a healthy word. Where do you learn that, did
:29:55. > :30:01.you go to parenting classes? but I would love. It is only for
:30:01. > :30:07.bad parent, not good parents like you? It is very dangerous, and I
:30:07. > :30:14.think she as right, not to talk about bad or good parenting.
:30:14. > :30:19.could have gone and paid for parenting lessons? I can't commit
:30:19. > :30:23.with my work to a night a week. I have a parenting book in my bag.
:30:23. > :30:27.I'm someone interested in being a parent. So there are bad parents
:30:27. > :30:30.aren't there? It depends how you define for it. There are better and
:30:30. > :30:35.worse parents, there always has been. One point I would like to
:30:35. > :30:39.take up. You say this isn't about breast-feeding and how much tele
:30:39. > :30:46.you watch, or for example about whether you shout at your children
:30:46. > :30:50.or you don't. All the my nugsia, all the mundane things about how
:30:50. > :30:54.ordinary mums and dads relate to their children have become
:30:54. > :30:59.politicalIsed. They are not mundane. They are, we shouldn't
:30:59. > :31:03.overcomplicate it, put it back in the box, it is not rocket science
:31:03. > :31:08.to bring up kids. People who didn't have good parenting can't do it.
:31:08. > :31:12.Who are they, who is this mass of the great unwashed useless parents
:31:12. > :31:15.who you think are out there. don't think there is the great
:31:15. > :31:19.unwashed. I'm someone who learns, every day I learn more, I look to
:31:19. > :31:24.learn. So do all of us. People are crying out for these parenting
:31:24. > :31:29.courses, people want to be. It is not very surprising, if you have
:31:29. > :31:33.had now 15 years of relentless communication that parenting is
:31:33. > :31:38.this incredibly complicated thing that you need a degree of child
:31:38. > :31:42.development before being let loose on a kid. No wonder parents have
:31:42. > :31:47.lost confidence. We need a word now on what is coming up on the review
:31:47. > :31:51.show. What have you got? I hope it will be as lively. We
:31:51. > :31:56.will be talking about a film already banned by one dictatorship,