:00:15. > :00:20.The Labour Government got it wrong on immigration. The party's leader
:00:20. > :00:25.Ed Miliband admits they did not recognise the cost to society. His
:00:25. > :00:29.solution? Companies to report if more than a quarter of their
:00:29. > :00:34.workers are from overseas. We return to Crewe to find out how
:00:34. > :00:39.that has gone down. They knew a long time ago they were wrong. That
:00:39. > :00:43.was before the Conservatives came into power. We debate whether any
:00:43. > :00:49.party is being straight with voters about immigration.
:00:49. > :00:53.In Warsaw the German Chancellor reacts to Greece leaving the euro,
:00:53. > :00:59.Surrey leaving Euro 2012. In Rome that there is another big
:00:59. > :01:03.sounding promise of action. Just how long can this game go on? We
:01:03. > :01:09.ask if we can keep on waiting for another solution just around the
:01:09. > :01:13.corner. Good evening. For politicians of
:01:13. > :01:16.the main parties the immigration debate has rarely been a
:01:16. > :01:22.comfortable one. When voters raise something they still passionately
:01:22. > :01:28.about, as happened to Gordon Brown, they can be dismissed as bigoted.
:01:28. > :01:31.When political leaders promise a brake on immigration, employers'
:01:31. > :01:35.organisations start fuming about the loss of reliable, foreign
:01:35. > :01:41.workers. His Ed Miliband's confession of past Labour mistakes
:01:41. > :01:49.the beginning of a new policy or an attempt to defuse the issue? Tim
:01:49. > :01:59.Whewell reports from Key Crewe, where in 2006 he fell hunt for
:01:59. > :02:02.
:02:02. > :02:06.Newsnight on the social tensions. Where he made a film for Newsnight.
:02:07. > :02:11.He is a place that sums up how recent migration has changed the
:02:11. > :02:17.face of Britain, a place most people speed through, but where,
:02:17. > :02:25.eight years ago, thousands of Polish people suddenly and totally
:02:25. > :02:30.unexpectedly got off. The demography of a medium-sized
:02:30. > :02:34.town that had seen little previous immigration was transformed.
:02:34. > :02:39.According to the local council, at least 3000 Polish people have a
:02:39. > :02:46.right in this one town alone, immediately making up over 6% of
:02:46. > :02:56.the population. Families like the Roberts were not hostile to the
:02:56. > :02:57.
:02:57. > :03:01.incomers, but they were remarkably prescient. It feels like a foreign
:03:01. > :03:07.country sometimes. If this continues, the bubble will burst
:03:07. > :03:13.and jobs will become scarcer. What happens then? What happens to where
:03:13. > :03:21.you have got British lads working alongside immigrant labour? Who
:03:21. > :03:25.gets the sack? The arrival of the migrants, following the Eastern
:03:25. > :03:29.expansion of the European Union, came as a complete surprise to the
:03:29. > :03:35.then Labour Government. It predicted net immigration from the
:03:35. > :03:44.new EU states would be between 50131000 a year. Some mistake. In
:03:44. > :03:49.fact, 576,000 arrived over the following seven years, peaking at
:03:49. > :03:55.112,000 in 2007 alone. Today, the present Labour leader, Ed Miliband,
:03:55. > :03:59.kind dog apologised. We too easily assumed that those who were
:03:59. > :04:06.worrying about immigration were stacked in the past, and realistic
:04:06. > :04:12.about how things could be different, even prejudiced. But Britain was
:04:12. > :04:20.experiencing the largest peacetime migration in history. People's
:04:20. > :04:23.concerns were genuine. For much of the last decade there was something
:04:23. > :04:29.missing between what people were talking about and what politicians
:04:30. > :04:34.were prepared to talk about at Westminster. The impact of European
:04:34. > :04:37.migration was not acknowledged and many felt that showed the elitism
:04:37. > :04:45.of the political class. They were not concerned about the problem
:04:45. > :04:52.because it did not affect them. But schools and other services came
:04:52. > :04:57.under unexpected strain and inevitably, as very few politicians
:04:57. > :05:01.noticed at the time, wages were driven down. Now that process is
:05:01. > :05:06.continuing as early migrants become more settled and new ones arrive
:05:06. > :05:13.from further afield. Brian Roberts has worked in the building industry
:05:13. > :05:23.for 45 years. I just spoke about an instance today with a colleague of
:05:23. > :05:32.mine who said a gang of Romanians weather gang master paid exactly
:05:32. > :05:38.half of what he was getting paid. That wage which they were taking
:05:38. > :05:42.home was well below the basic minimum wage. It was recruitment
:05:42. > :05:45.agencies that fuelled migration to Crewe. For a while this one had a
:05:45. > :05:51.branch in Poland and was single- handedly responsible for attracting
:05:51. > :05:54.many of the new workers. Our name was being published in the
:05:54. > :06:01.equivalent of almost the Daily Times in Poland, not to our
:06:01. > :06:07.knowledge. Suddenly, we were getting 400 e-mails a week.
:06:07. > :06:11.firm, which has since changed hands, has always paid the minimum wage or
:06:12. > :06:16.above. Labour now wants a new regulation to ensure recruitment
:06:16. > :06:21.agencies do not exclude British workers. But they say they never
:06:21. > :06:24.did, they just do not get enough local applications. The reason
:06:24. > :06:28.Labour did not talk much about European migration is not just
:06:28. > :06:33.because of blindness or political correctness, it is because there
:06:33. > :06:38.are no easy solutions. Most EU citizens have a right to work here
:06:38. > :06:43.and as recruitment agencies will tell you they are often more polite
:06:43. > :06:51.and more punctual than local job- seekers and more willing to do jobs
:06:51. > :06:54.that locals often will not take on. Filling the local skills gap in the
:06:54. > :06:58.electrical trade is one way to create a more level playing field
:06:58. > :07:04.in employment. More apprentices like this are being trained, but
:07:04. > :07:10.they still face competition from incomers. They are willing to work
:07:10. > :07:16.for a lot less, people from other countries. Do you see that? You see
:07:16. > :07:22.it from time to time on site. like many similar places up and
:07:22. > :07:26.down Britain, is now more mixed ethnically than ever before. Most
:07:26. > :07:30.locals accept that, but they wish they had had more warning.
:07:30. > :07:35.He is this really a complete change of heart from Labour? I have been
:07:35. > :07:39.speaking to Labour's Shadow Communities Secretary Hilary Benn.
:07:39. > :07:45.To be clear, this is the Labour Party saying there are too many
:07:45. > :07:49.immigrants in this country? No, it is not that. What Ed Miliband said
:07:50. > :07:54.is that in relation to the accession States we got it wrong in
:07:54. > :07:58.not putting in place transitional controls. Looking back on it, we
:07:58. > :08:02.should have done and had we done so, fewer people would have come from
:08:02. > :08:06.those countries. So there are not too many immigrants in this
:08:06. > :08:12.country? You got it wrong about the numbers, but there are not too
:08:12. > :08:18.many? This is all about innuendo? could not disagree with you more.
:08:18. > :08:22.This is about recognising the benefits and the consequences and
:08:22. > :08:26.understanding when people see communities that changing very fast,
:08:26. > :08:31.they feel uncomfortable. It does not mean they are bigots. It is
:08:31. > :08:37.also about looking at the way in which the economy works. There is
:08:37. > :08:40.also evidence this immigration has had an impact on wage rates. Some
:08:40. > :08:45.recruitment agencies say they only recruit people from certain Eastern
:08:45. > :08:49.European countries and that cannot be right. It is also looking about
:08:49. > :08:53.the skills that people in this country have so they also can
:08:53. > :08:58.participate in the labour market. You are accepting there is a
:08:58. > :09:02.cultural issue. A parent can say in leaves, my local school, more than
:09:02. > :09:09.half the children do not speak English as a first language and I
:09:09. > :09:13.am worried about that. To say that is not bigoted? I do not sign
:09:13. > :09:17.constituents saying that. They talk about housing and jobs. In some
:09:17. > :09:21.parts of the country they talk about the pace at which their
:09:21. > :09:27.community has changed. It is right we should be debating it and
:09:27. > :09:32.looking at practical solutions, for example whether people are from the
:09:32. > :09:38.UK or if they come from abroad they get at minimum wage. Looking at the
:09:38. > :09:46.work of the gang masters' Licensing Authority which we set up in the
:09:46. > :09:50.way of that tragedy in Morecambe. If your proposals go through, if a
:09:50. > :09:55.work force contains more than one in four emigrants, the Jobcentres
:09:55. > :10:00.should get involved. That would apply to a lot of hospital wards,
:10:01. > :10:05.wouldn't it? Let's be clear, the country has gained a lot from
:10:05. > :10:09.immigration. In Leeds many people have come from all over the world.
:10:09. > :10:13.Can you say is there any upper limit to the number of immigrants
:10:13. > :10:18.who should be allowed into this country because of the social
:10:18. > :10:22.strains and consequences you have talked about? We have said we will
:10:23. > :10:26.look at the question of caps, but you have got to be straight about
:10:27. > :10:31.Eastern European migration because there is no control over that. That
:10:31. > :10:36.is why we said clearly, we should have put those controls in place.
:10:36. > :10:41.The problem with the Government's cap is it only applies to a very
:10:41. > :10:45.small proportion of migration. We did put in place the points based
:10:45. > :10:49.system which allows people to coming weather is a skills shortage
:10:49. > :10:54.and that is sensible and the Government has carried on with it.
:10:54. > :10:57.What about non EU immigration which some people feel is culturally more
:10:58. > :11:02.difficult to assimilate and that is not a matter that you have
:11:03. > :11:08.discussed? With respect the points based system applies to non e
:11:08. > :11:13.migration and that is something we thought it was right we should be
:11:13. > :11:16.looking at what the skill needs are and if there is a shortage and if
:11:16. > :11:21.it is important for the economy, you can allow people in, but you
:11:21. > :11:25.should be able to control immigration at immigration control.
:11:25. > :11:33.The Government has continued with that because it was the right thing
:11:33. > :11:37.to do. Deborah Mattinson runs the Opinion Research Company Britain
:11:37. > :11:41.Thinks and Ian Birrell was a speechwriter for David Cameron in
:11:41. > :11:47.the 2010 campaign, but thinks they are getting it wrong on immigration.
:11:47. > :11:51.First of all, do you see this announcement by Ed Miliband as him
:11:52. > :11:58.saying, actually, we have got a political problem and it is a vote
:11:58. > :12:02.user for Labour? I think he is, yes. Basically, the situation Labour
:12:02. > :12:07.finds itself in his we have seen a lot of disillusionment with the
:12:07. > :12:12.Government, but people not yet rushing towards Labour. They are
:12:12. > :12:17.not yet ready. Labour does not have the licence to be heard yet and it
:12:17. > :12:21.will not have that until it really accepts responsibility for some of
:12:21. > :12:25.the things people think it got wrong the last time and immigration
:12:25. > :12:33.is one of them. When you did focus groups through the last Government,
:12:33. > :12:38.does it come up a lot? Yes, and we saw a real change as well. In 1999,
:12:38. > :12:44.fewer than 5% said immigration was one of the top problems facing the
:12:44. > :12:49.country. It is now a number two only to the economy. People are
:12:49. > :12:54.really, really worried about it. you think there is actually among
:12:54. > :12:58.the main parties a bit of a political consensus about this?
:12:58. > :13:02.They head like his immigration spiralling out of control and
:13:02. > :13:06.something must be done and there is a fundamental agreement? All the
:13:06. > :13:10.parties have accepted this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
:13:10. > :13:14.But I thought the speech day was disingenuous drivel. All the
:13:14. > :13:19.parties are coming out with the same rhetoric and promises, but it
:13:19. > :13:22.is down to economics and there is very little they can do. What Ed
:13:22. > :13:28.Miliband should have done is apologise because they are not
:13:28. > :13:33.telling the truth about immigration. Immigration benefits our public
:13:33. > :13:38.services because immigrants are more likely to pay taxes, it helps
:13:38. > :13:42.our pension crisis, and it is good for the British economy. That is
:13:42. > :13:47.not what they are saying and that is why the public is in such a mess
:13:47. > :13:50.on theirs. Politicians have not stood up and said, immigration is
:13:50. > :13:54.beneficial for us, we need it and there is not much we can do about
:13:55. > :14:01.it. People think politicians have not been straight because they have
:14:01. > :14:06.not allowed a debate. It is not that they are not making the right
:14:06. > :14:12.noises, they are not talking about it at all. The discussion has
:14:12. > :14:18.closed down. If you raise it, you are regarded as a bigot. This it
:14:18. > :14:22.that or is it that there is no easy solution as you suggest?
:14:22. > :14:30.endlessly here there is no debate. We hear is when people are debating
:14:30. > :14:36.it. We had Margaret Hodge talk about the pressure on social
:14:36. > :14:40.housing which led the BNP to power in her local area. We have had
:14:40. > :14:45.Gordon Brown and David Blunkett raised it. There is nothing we can
:14:45. > :14:49.do about it because it is economics and it is good for the country.
:14:49. > :14:55.That is a message a lot of people are not prepared to listen to.
:14:55. > :15:00.People see it as a problem. have to start with where people are.
:15:00. > :15:04.There are a lot of good points to make about immigration, economic,
:15:04. > :15:09.but if you do not start where people are, they are not going to
:15:09. > :15:15.listen or be persuaded. What Ed Miliband has done today, quite
:15:15. > :15:19.successfully, is to say, I understand how you feel. I
:15:19. > :15:29.understand the problems. He has also talked about the benefits in
:15:29. > :15:30.
:15:30. > :15:35.It's rubbish. We will have this early warning system when we get
:15:35. > :15:41.recruitment company which gets up to 20%. When I saw Hilary Benn
:15:41. > :15:44.being asked what he would do about it, he had no answer. It's figure
:15:44. > :15:48.leaf solutions. They should say out loud and proud that immigration is
:15:48. > :15:55.very good for the country. That we need. It it helps our public
:15:55. > :15:58.services. One of the things that he said, let's be honest, let's not
:15:58. > :16:01.overpromise. If leading politicians made that argument, what would
:16:02. > :16:06.happen? People would close down. They wouldn't listen to it. What
:16:06. > :16:10.they are saying, at the moment, people feel that it causes more
:16:10. > :16:14.problems than it offers solutions. Unless you start were they are, at
:16:14. > :16:19.the problem end of things, you are not going to be able to persuade
:16:19. > :16:23.people of the solutions. We never hear anything... All we hear from
:16:23. > :16:26.politicians are the problems, never the solutions. That is not true.
:16:26. > :16:32.The politicians failed it give leadership on this issue what so
:16:32. > :16:36.ever. That is why the public has myths and misconceptions because of
:16:36. > :16:40.the appalling political leadership in all parties. Do you accept there,
:16:40. > :16:46.is as I tried to explore with Hilary Benn, a cultural issue.
:16:46. > :16:50.People see their communities changing it causes fear and concern.
:16:50. > :16:54.It's legitimate? There are concerns and issues. It's wrong for
:16:54. > :16:59.politicians to come out with this shallow rhetoric that we hear today.
:16:59. > :17:04.Yes, there is a plus side to it. It is good for our schools. A study
:17:04. > :17:10.came out if there is Polish kids in schools, schools do better. Not bad
:17:10. > :17:13.for housing. 25% of the population think if you weren't born in this
:17:13. > :17:17.country you shouldn't be educated by the state. That is were people's
:17:17. > :17:22.views are at the moment. That is the way politicians have been
:17:22. > :17:26.handling this. That is because of the lack of leadership. It make it
:17:26. > :17:30.is far worse. What he said carefully today is, let's not over
:17:30. > :17:35.promise. He was critical of what David Cameron has said because it's
:17:35. > :17:39.not deliverable. We will leave it there. Here's another one of those
:17:39. > :17:42.notorious BBC repeats. Everyone is terrified by the euro crisis. The
:17:43. > :17:47.top leaders in Europe get together and decide something must be done
:17:47. > :17:51.to save the euro. They announce something big, but a few days later
:17:51. > :17:55.people decide it wasn't that big after all. Everyone returns to
:17:55. > :17:57.being terrified. Today's big sounding announcement was another
:17:57. > :18:06.�100 billion for investment in growth. Will it make any
:18:06. > :18:15.difference? Here is Paul mason. Confidence in Europe is burning.
:18:15. > :18:18.Time is running out. Men the -- when the IMF says you are facing a,
:18:18. > :18:23."Critical stage" you had better believe. Christine Lagarde laid
:18:23. > :18:27.down a challenge to the way Europe and, above all, Germany has faced
:18:27. > :18:32.the crisis. She called for immediate concrete steps to form a
:18:32. > :18:37.banking union. For the ECB to begin printing money. An end to
:18:37. > :18:43.austerity-driven bail outs and the direct bail out of the Spanish
:18:43. > :18:48.banks from money from the ESM. In Rome today, at the pre-meeting of
:18:48. > :18:52.the eurozone's four big economies they decided to do none of the
:18:52. > :18:55.above. TRANSLATION: I think that in
:18:55. > :19:00.European politics and culture a new awareness has grown up that growth
:19:00. > :19:04.can be based only on budgetary discipline, but that budgetary
:19:04. > :19:09.discipline is not sustainable economically and politically if
:19:09. > :19:15.there are no possible conditions for growth and employment. Against
:19:15. > :19:19.the rumble of protests across Europe today, the leaders are
:19:20. > :19:25.proposing a stimulus package worth 130 billion euros. It sounds a lot.
:19:25. > :19:29.It's worth 1% of the eurozone's GDP. The political pressure now is on
:19:29. > :19:35.Angela Merkel, asked to release central bail out funds to help
:19:35. > :19:39.Spain she said simply this. TRANSLATION: If I simply gave money
:19:39. > :19:42.to a Spanish bank or other bank I can't say what that bank should
:19:43. > :19:46.change because I'm not responsible, I'm the German Chancellor. I can
:19:46. > :19:52.only say that to my banks. That is the problem I vfplt it's not that I
:19:52. > :20:01.do not want to help, but we set up them under such conditions. That is
:20:01. > :20:06.how we will condition. There is a German word for all that, it is
:20:06. > :20:11.nien. Paul is with me now. How long have they got? Well, month Monti,
:20:11. > :20:15.the Prime Minister of Italy said today, a week to save the euro. He
:20:15. > :20:21.is not normally given to high peshly. That is probably right. We
:20:21. > :20:25.started this week in Mexico at the G20. What happened? The Germans
:20:25. > :20:29.gave a positive signal about two things that everybody knows we need
:20:29. > :20:34.to do. Europe needs to get a decision on. One is banking union.
:20:34. > :20:38.The idea of various steps, whether it is guaranteeing everybody's
:20:38. > :20:42.deposits or pan-European regulation. They have said, they have flagged
:20:42. > :20:45.up very strongly, there will be a deal on that at the end of next
:20:45. > :20:53.week at the summit in Brussels. The thing the Germans have been
:20:53. > :21:00.resisting on, that is using the bail out fund of Europe, to pump
:21:00. > :21:04.money into Europe's banks direct. Merkel had up to now said, no, in
:21:04. > :21:07.Mexico on Monday she said it was possible. The whole of the
:21:07. > :21:11.broadsheet press of the world took that as a signal that, by now, by
:21:11. > :21:15.Friday, in Rome, the scheduled pre- summit we might be hearing some
:21:15. > :21:20.kind of maybe. Instead, as you saw in my package she said, no, we are
:21:20. > :21:24.not going to do it. Now, you can only watch history unfold like a
:21:24. > :21:28.car crash with four drivers, as we have done, and conclude there will
:21:28. > :21:34.be an impact unless they steer away from the problem by next Friday.
:21:34. > :21:37.Well, OK. We are joined now by the Financial Times' Gillian Tett,
:21:37. > :21:41.Maria Margaronis of The Nation and Dr Imke Henkel of Germany's Focus
:21:41. > :21:48.Magazine. Economics first. Does this pre-summit summit get us
:21:48. > :21:52.anywhere at all? We are back to were we where before. Frustration
:21:52. > :21:56.and disappointment in the markets and amongst other world leaders. As
:21:56. > :21:59.Paul says, in Mexico last week there was a feeling there would be
:21:59. > :22:06.a breakthrough. Certainly the Americans have been pushing very,
:22:06. > :22:12.very hard. There were rumours about a five-part plan doing the rounds
:22:12. > :22:16.growth pact, the hopes have been dashed. What we are seeing is that
:22:16. > :22:19.Angela Merkel is caught between a rock and a hard place right now.
:22:19. > :22:23.She is under intense pressure from the markets and international
:22:23. > :22:27.leaders to do something. The political opposition inside Germany
:22:27. > :22:31.itself to bailing out other parts of the eurozone is rising too.
:22:31. > :22:36.that fair. If she is blinking, she is blinking in such a way that
:22:36. > :22:41.people can't really notice it, she is not moving it at all?
:22:41. > :22:45.description is very fair. It is interesting, it is not just the
:22:45. > :22:50.opposition that we used to have that we don't want to pay for it.
:22:50. > :22:54.Which she should have started arguing against far earlier because
:22:54. > :22:58.Germany profited hugely from the euro. She should have brought it in
:22:59. > :23:03.a way to pay it back. There is another position growing this is
:23:03. > :23:10.the fear that is what going to further and further integration
:23:10. > :23:15.will be undemocratic beast. That is quite interesting. The German
:23:15. > :23:20.Parliament will vote end of next week on the fiscal compact. They
:23:20. > :23:26.will pass it. That won't ab problem. The President won't sign it because
:23:26. > :23:30.they are now looming quite a few calls in the constitution court
:23:30. > :23:32.that might bring it down or at least will change it. As the Greeks
:23:33. > :23:37.watch this, also watch the football tonight, perhaps, with the same
:23:37. > :23:41.kind of feeling, you must feel that the politics of this, never mind
:23:41. > :23:45.the economics, is not going your way at all? No, I think the
:23:45. > :23:49.question is people are asking, is how long will European policy be
:23:49. > :23:55.held hostage by German domestic politics. It feels clear the
:23:55. > :24:00.blockage is in Germany. Maybe for forever. Given that rock and the
:24:00. > :24:06.hard place argument Mrs Merkel may not move at all? She may not. If
:24:06. > :24:10.you look further down-the-line, we either have dissenter gracious of
:24:10. > :24:13.the eurozone or greater political union, givenlet gap between the
:24:13. > :24:18.northern and southern countries, which is worse than it was two
:24:18. > :24:24.years ago, how is it going to happen Is the big solution is so
:24:24. > :24:29.elusive, there is no big solution. It's politically impossible. These
:24:30. > :24:36.are nation states remaining nation states and this rhetoric we need
:24:36. > :24:42.more Europe is simply that. Fear is gluing them together. The political
:24:42. > :24:46.elite know if the project falls apart it will be very nasty indeed
:24:46. > :24:51.if Greece leaves the eurozone. You could say the European Union was
:24:51. > :24:54.driven by fear of committing the sins of World War II. A project was
:24:54. > :24:58.designed to heal those wounds. Tragically a project designed to
:24:58. > :25:02.heal the wounds of World War II is re-opening them. Look at all the
:25:02. > :25:07.rhetoric coming out of Germany and Greece right now. A project that is
:25:07. > :25:10.glued together by fear, without any positive vision for the future,
:25:10. > :25:13.it's debilitating. Nobody today in the eurozone doing what you hear
:25:13. > :25:19.from a place like America saying, this is the American dream. What is
:25:19. > :25:25.the European dream today? What is the positive image the voters can
:25:25. > :25:33.cling to. Mrs Merkel will say, it's more Europe. What do Germans think
:25:33. > :25:39.of that? For Germany it's connected to what was said 20 to 30 years ago,
:25:39. > :25:43.more democracy. What Merkel is saying is more Europe is in fact
:25:43. > :25:53.quite contrary. It will be less democracy. It will be... Or some
:25:53. > :25:53.
:25:53. > :25:58.people... It's aiming towards an entity that will have augtisim to
:25:58. > :26:02.rule over national budget that will take away sovereignty from national
:26:02. > :26:06.budgets. It will, in the end, have far less democracy and far less
:26:06. > :26:09.rights for the European citizens. The implications of that,
:26:10. > :26:14.presumably if you are sitting in Greece and worried about where the
:26:15. > :26:20.next pay cheque is coming from, is more German control. Where the
:26:20. > :26:24.nationalism comes in More German control and much less democracy.
:26:24. > :26:30.Gillan talks about the wounds of World War II opening up. We have
:26:30. > :26:34.real ghosts for this party called Golden Dawn, beating migrants on
:26:34. > :26:39.the streets and working hand in hand in Athens with the police and
:26:39. > :26:45.is very frightening indeed. Do you think your country is a democracy?
:26:45. > :26:49.No, I don't. Not at this point. The economic programme imposed on
:26:49. > :26:54.Greece was not designed. They are not choosen. The last election was
:26:54. > :26:59.fought on the grounds of fear. Two German newspapers published Greek
:26:59. > :27:04.editorials in Greeks telling Greeks which way to vote as if they were
:27:04. > :27:09.dropping leaflets on an occupied city. I'm sure that went down
:27:09. > :27:11.really well. I wonder if they know what they are doing. We learnt
:27:11. > :27:13.after Lehman Brothers collapsed that extraordinarily unexpected
:27:13. > :27:17.things can happen in financial and economic terms. What we are
:27:17. > :27:20.learning right now in Europe is that something extraordinarily
:27:20. > :27:23.unexpected things can happen in political terms too. Who would have
:27:23. > :27:29.imagined, think back a year or two years ago, just as we find it
:27:29. > :27:33.impossible to imagine a big bank collapsing, who would imagine that
:27:33. > :27:37.this think you are hearing about in Greece and Germany could have
:27:37. > :27:42.happened. It's extraordinary. Just how much further can it go?
:27:42. > :27:49.other terror in Germany, apart from not having a sound currency, it
:27:49. > :27:53.produces political extremism in Germany itself? In Germany itself
:27:54. > :27:58.as well. Political extremism isn't a big danger in Germany. We have
:27:58. > :28:03.other parties who are more funny than extreme. I wonder, I say you
:28:03. > :28:08.are quite right in asking that, does Merkel, do they know what is
:28:08. > :28:15.going on in Greece? Do they really feel that they might be responsible
:28:15. > :28:18.for the Greek right and -- right emerging and becoming more popular.
:28:18. > :28:21.We watched the football tonight when we were trying to do work.
:28:21. > :28:25.When you see Angela Merkel celebrating, as is her right, she
:28:25. > :28:29.is a German Chancellor, supporting a German team. Do you think that
:28:29. > :28:34.gets, that in itself strikes a serious raw nerve as well in
:28:34. > :28:37.Greece? I don't think it's so much Angela Merkel celebrating. People
:28:37. > :28:41.in Greece feel so ground down. So exClarence Housed at this point
:28:41. > :28:45.that the football has a symbolic meaning. I was in Athens last week
:28:45. > :28:49.when Greece beat Russia. There was this moment of, kind of, a day
:28:50. > :28:58.before the election. Somebody sitting next to me in a cafe said,
:28:58. > :29:04."If we win the party will win tomorrow" of course they didn't. It
:29:04. > :29:09.will be depressing for the Greeks. Paul, your sense of this. Listening
:29:10. > :29:16.to what Mario Monti had to say and the politicians getting it in the
:29:16. > :29:19.neck now. Is this when economic unrest is spreading into a wider
:29:19. > :29:27.political discontent? What Maria Margaronis said there, I spent the
:29:27. > :29:30.last two weeks in Spain and Greece, you are right there is a tangible
:29:30. > :29:34.fear of being beaten up and the police standing back and doing
:29:34. > :29:40.nothing. The Greeks voted for parties that were Europeanists.
:29:40. > :29:44.Even the left party, Europeanists. If the Europeans abandon them, what
:29:44. > :29:48.an example to Spain, which is next up. We will have to leave it there.
:29:48. > :29:54.In a minute Kirstie will be presenting the Review Show from
:29:54. > :30:01.Glasgow. What do we have? Tonight, it's move over Malcolm Tucker the
:30:01. > :30:06.Veet is coming through. Julie Walters as a hippie trippy old in