:00:15. > :00:20.Tonight, they want to work for G4S, but they can't. Can't you see they
:00:20. > :00:27.are doing their job, they are not. Done the training and everything,
:00:27. > :00:31.and then it is a joke. There is nowhere to go for the boss. This is
:00:31. > :00:35.a humiliating shambles for the company, yes or no? I cannot
:00:35. > :00:40.disagree with you. That will be a yes then. Now we learn that not
:00:40. > :00:43.just the army, but more police are being drafted in to fill the hole.
:00:43. > :00:50.The chairman of the Police Federation is none too pleased. Is
:00:50. > :00:56.there too much security any way? Ken Livingston thinks so.
:00:56. > :01:02.More Barclays shockwaves, Mervyn King said he knew nothing about
:01:02. > :01:08.their LIBOR manipulation until two weeks ago. We informed all the
:01:08. > :01:13.relevant authorities in both the UK and the United States. This is an
:01:13. > :01:17.immune system cell killing a cancer cell. This is yielding amazing
:01:17. > :01:21.results in some cancer patients. only know that the treatment is
:01:21. > :01:26.working, but to actually see it on the screen is very, very
:01:26. > :01:36.encouraging. The science minister is here to explain why we are not
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:40.throwing Government money into immunotherapy. Good evening, the
:01:40. > :01:43.chief executive G4S told MPs today that he wished he had never taken
:01:43. > :01:47.on the Olympic security contract. Nick Buckles will not be alone in
:01:47. > :01:50.that view. But it is cold comfort to his bewildered workers, and to
:01:51. > :01:54.police forces around the country who are having to plug a big black
:01:54. > :01:58.hole. Today it was revealed that nearly 400 extra police officers a
:01:58. > :02:03.day will be needed to secure Olympic venues in the West Midlands,
:02:03. > :02:13.until August 9th. But despite the shambles, Mr Buckles said G4S will
:02:13. > :02:17.still be taking its �57 million management fee from the games.
:02:17. > :02:21.There was one part of Stratford that G4S had under control today,
:02:21. > :02:25.their training centre. Hundreds of would-be security guards had turned
:02:25. > :02:30.up here today in the hope of a job. While eight miles away in
:02:30. > :02:33.Westminster, the chief executive was getting a frisking of his own
:02:33. > :02:38.from MPs. Many would take the view that the reputation of the company
:02:38. > :02:44.is now in tatters, you wouldn't agree? I think at the moment I
:02:44. > :02:48.would have to agree with you. We have had fantastic track record of
:02:48. > :02:55.service delivery in many years in many countries, but clearly this is
:02:55. > :02:59.not a good position to be in. We feel we have to make every
:02:59. > :03:04.endeavour to deliver as well as we can on this contract. It is a step
:03:04. > :03:08.backwards and a humiliating shambles? It is not where we would
:03:08. > :03:12.want to be, that is certain. It is a humiliating shambles for the
:03:12. > :03:15.company, yes or no? I can't disagree with you. Behind these
:03:15. > :03:19.green bars is where they are trying to sort out that shambles. The
:03:19. > :03:22.irony is there is no shortage of people who want to pitch in. Today
:03:22. > :03:26.people were flocking to the training centre, want to go find
:03:26. > :03:30.out when they could start, in what they describe as a "job of the
:03:30. > :03:34.lifetime", many were leaving disappointed. We didn't have to try
:03:34. > :03:39.very hard to find them. Come to see that they are doing their job. They
:03:39. > :03:44.are not. They are not? No, they are not doing their job. In what way?
:03:44. > :03:48.Because I'm supposed to be working with them. I want to find out a
:03:48. > :03:55.simple bit of information and no- one is helping me. What did you
:03:55. > :03:58.need to find out? They sent me away, I took down two guys' names, I
:03:58. > :04:02.don't want to follow it up, I want my job. I done the training and
:04:02. > :04:06.everything. It is a joke. I came down here today. What made
:04:06. > :04:12.you come down? I heard the news that they needed people, I have
:04:12. > :04:17.been applying for other jobs as well, and it is part-time position,
:04:17. > :04:24.so I will be waiting for them. they say you have a chance, or is
:04:24. > :04:30.it too late? No, they said training is going on in around about three
:04:30. > :04:33.weeks, hopefully I will get a position.
:04:33. > :04:38.This man says he was wrongly accused of missing training, which
:04:38. > :04:41.he had actually turned up for yesterday? This morning someone
:04:41. > :04:45.called me, what happened to you, you didn't come to the training
:04:45. > :04:49.yesterday, and today. I said, no, I was there yesterday, but they
:04:49. > :04:53.changed my appointment to different training, I didn't know what to do.
:04:53. > :04:57.Some workers said they wished they had never bothered signing up for
:04:57. > :05:00.the job. Nick Buckles told the Select Committee, he felt the same
:05:01. > :05:05.way. Do you regret signing the contract saying you would agree to
:05:05. > :05:10.provide these people, Mr Buckles? Clearly we regret signing the
:05:10. > :05:14.contract, now we have to get on and deliver. Are you telling the
:05:14. > :05:18.committee that real serious consideration was given that the
:05:18. > :05:22.company could deliver before that contract was signed, or was it so
:05:22. > :05:24.lucrative that you decided it was such a marvellous contract you
:05:24. > :05:31.would sign? No, careful consideration went in from the team
:05:31. > :05:35.in the UK, looking at this contract. There was a number of work streams
:05:35. > :05:38.to see if they could deliver it, it was signed later than we would have
:05:38. > :05:42.liked but we still signed the contract. It is not a question of
:05:42. > :05:45.being lucrative. As I said earlier, we did this purely because we
:05:45. > :05:48.wanted to have a successful security operation at this Olympics.
:05:48. > :05:53.It is not particularly financially lucrative for us. It was much more
:05:53. > :05:59.about, ironically, reputation and building reputation for the future.
:05:59. > :06:02.The problem is s even today staff were telling us that they turned up
:06:02. > :06:07.for work, here at the Olympic Park because their rota had changed and
:06:07. > :06:10.they weren't told. One senior member of staff, who wouldn't go on
:06:10. > :06:14.camera, described the scene here as being in complete meltdown, saying
:06:14. > :06:18.the system failed his workers, and he was so embarrassed he didn't
:06:18. > :06:23.wafrpbt to be seen in public in his green - want to be seen in public
:06:23. > :06:27.in his green uniform. There were few signs of embarrassment from his
:06:27. > :06:32.chief executive. With all this going on, are you still going to
:06:32. > :06:36.pay your management fee. Yes. Because why? You haven't managed
:06:36. > :06:41.the contract. We will have management on the ground. Even with
:06:41. > :06:47.all that happened you still want to claim the management fee? Yes.
:06:47. > :06:54.Eventually an answer came. total management fee on current
:06:54. > :06:59.budgets with our client is in the order of �57 million.
:06:59. > :07:03.Nick Buckles has admitted G4S can only really confirm personnel on a
:07:03. > :07:09.day-to-day basis. But with more reports of staff not turning up
:07:09. > :07:12.today, it looked very much like a numbers game they were losing. I'm
:07:12. > :07:18.joined by the chairman of the Police Federation, which represents
:07:18. > :07:25.officers in England and Wales. We know that 380 officers were
:07:25. > :07:28.called on today in the West Midlands to go through the night.
:07:28. > :07:33.Do the requests keep coming? They are coming from across the country,
:07:33. > :07:36.north, south, east and west. The staff just aren't turning up from
:07:36. > :07:39.G4S. Police officers are having to fill these gaps that are appearing
:07:39. > :07:43.around the country. We don't know the staff aren't turning up for
:07:43. > :07:48.anything other than scheduling, they usually want to turn up, I
:07:48. > :07:52.understand? Some appear to want to turn up, but the thing is staff
:07:52. > :07:55.aren't there to perform their functions. Clearly there is a limit
:07:55. > :07:59.to which you can go? Of course, police officers are resilient and
:07:59. > :08:05.flexible, and we have a duty to protect the public, that is what we
:08:05. > :08:09.will try to do to deal with this debacle that is taking place. But
:08:09. > :08:12.we are hugely stretched with the Olympic itself, we had a huge
:08:13. > :08:16.commitment to supply officers across the UK not just East London,
:08:16. > :08:19.but we have ordinary operational duties to continue with too, plus
:08:19. > :08:23.all the other events in the country at the same time. Can you guarantee
:08:23. > :08:27.normal levels of street staffing and specialist police work and so
:08:27. > :08:29.forth? We are going to do our absolute best. We have to focus on
:08:29. > :08:34.what is important for the country. This is national reputational issue
:08:34. > :08:36.that we have to deal with. We have to ensure the games are safe, and
:08:36. > :08:41.people can come to London and the other sites, and be secure when
:08:41. > :08:45.they go there. That is what we will do as police officers, with the
:08:45. > :08:49.resilience we show, normally in our every day axiveties. There will
:08:49. > :08:52.come a point when you can't guarantee normal day-to-day police
:08:52. > :08:56.work, if you are having to lend so many to the Olympics? We are not
:08:56. > :08:59.there yet. Officers are finding their own time much more stretched.
:08:59. > :09:03.They are having to have fewer days off, very few days at all during
:09:03. > :09:07.the Olympic period. But we are trying to manage what is before us.
:09:07. > :09:11.If you were asked for another 1,000, could you do it, and guarantee
:09:11. > :09:14.normal levels of policing on the street? We would have to do it, we
:09:14. > :09:17.have to find the numbers if they are necessary. Goodness me, this
:09:17. > :09:23.time last year you were dealing with the riots? That is a sillent
:09:23. > :09:28.point, if you look, we have lost -- salient point, if you look we have
:09:28. > :09:31.lost 7,000 officers in the last Government, and policing is a lower
:09:31. > :09:35.priority for this Government, we are less resilient than last year.
:09:35. > :09:41.You don't know the breaking point until you get to it. It is hard to
:09:41. > :09:45.say when that point will come. There will come a point where you
:09:45. > :09:48.can't provide officers to the Olympics? There is not a limitless
:09:48. > :09:51.box of police officers for the country. I speak to police officers
:09:51. > :09:56.right across the country at open meetings, they are saying already
:09:56. > :09:59.that they are feeling very stretched, and the public safety is
:09:59. > :10:04.put at risk and their own safety. The other argument would be that
:10:04. > :10:08.this, in a sense, plays into the agenda that you are promoting, that
:10:08. > :10:14.we don't have enough police officers, and we are facing
:10:14. > :10:20.cutbacks in the force with the changes of duty. The Four
:10:21. > :10:30.Musketeers crisis plays into the whole thing, -- G4S crisis plays
:10:31. > :10:33.
:10:33. > :10:43.into the hands of it. Cynics might say this suits you. The first job
:10:43. > :10:46.is people are safe, the other come later.
:10:46. > :10:51.There is stretching over in Northern Ireland, with the PSNI,
:10:51. > :10:59.for marching season? There is a possibility there.
:10:59. > :11:09.I'm joined by Ken Livingston, along with Matthew Side, who competed in
:11:09. > :11:14.the bars lone fla and Sydney -- Barcelona and Sydney Olympics, and
:11:14. > :11:18.a representative of LOCOG. Craig Oliver, what would you have
:11:18. > :11:22.done differently? -- Ken Livingston, what would you have done
:11:22. > :11:26.differently? The big mistake was take control away from the police
:11:26. > :11:30.and dump it into the Home Office. The police should have run this,
:11:30. > :11:34.they have the indepth knowledge, they could have made the decision
:11:34. > :11:38.about the augmented police. In the last two years we have had 2,000
:11:38. > :11:41.police posts cut in London, with the Olympics coming, this was
:11:41. > :11:45.madness. No commissioner would have done that, the Home Office was
:11:45. > :11:50.happy to see it. Is it right that you feel security is overegged?
:11:50. > :11:56.think there is a real problem here, both ministers want to come on to
:11:56. > :11:59.the TV and say we are doing everything to protect people, Group
:11:59. > :12:04.4 got in contact and ramping up the contract. The simple fact is you
:12:04. > :12:09.have two ways in which a terrorist can strike, you have the lone
:12:09. > :12:14.psychopath like we had at Atlanta, or the organised attack like Al-
:12:14. > :12:20.Qaeda. You don't catch Al-Qaeda by frisking people looking at their
:12:20. > :12:24.Lieutenant-General books, you do it by doubt agents and electronic
:12:24. > :12:27.surveillance. I have a horrible feeling this is about throwing
:12:27. > :12:30.money at it, because they are terrified they will come on
:12:30. > :12:35.Newsnight after a bombing and say why didn't you do more. I think
:12:35. > :12:37.they are making a miscalculation. Reputationally there is a risk, you
:12:37. > :12:42.can't be seen to be doing everything other than the utmost?
:12:42. > :12:45.You have to do the utmost, whether flowing money at a private sector
:12:45. > :12:50.organisation, with no real experience of counter terrorism is
:12:50. > :12:54.a good use of money in my opinion. You heard Nick Buckles saying he
:12:54. > :12:58.wished he hadn't gone for the contract? That is not a surprise
:12:58. > :13:02.after the Select Committee. Picking up on what Ken said, it is an
:13:02. > :13:06.extraordinarily difficult balance to strike, these global sporting
:13:06. > :13:09.events are the perfect platform for terrorists to secure publicity for
:13:09. > :13:12.their causes. We have seen that in football, we have seen it in
:13:12. > :13:15.cricket, we have seen it at the previous Olympic Games. On the
:13:15. > :13:20.other hand, this is supposed to be a celebration of human endeavour,
:13:20. > :13:24.and the human spirit. At my first Olympics in Barcelona, it was truly
:13:24. > :13:28.terrifying to see the apparatus that surrounded the venues. The X-
:13:28. > :13:34.ray machines you had to go through, the checking of the bags. It has to
:13:34. > :13:38.be the same for journalists and individuals. I agree with Ken, the
:13:38. > :13:43.downsize to risk-averse politicians is considerable, they may have jofr
:13:43. > :13:47.egged the pudding. On the simple point of the management see --
:13:47. > :13:51.Overegged the pudding. On the simple point of the management fee,
:13:51. > :13:56.Nick Buckles was clear, that the management fee will be taken by G4S.
:13:56. > :14:01.Is that correct, even if they are contractually allowed it, is it
:14:01. > :14:04.correct that they take it if their security operation is a fiasco?
:14:04. > :14:08.is not speculation to say it is a fiasco, it is already there. In
:14:08. > :14:12.terms of should they take it? No, I don't think they should. However,
:14:12. > :14:15.this should come as no surprise to anybody, this is another dot on a
:14:15. > :14:19.trend line of large organisations making massive promises that they
:14:19. > :14:23.either cannot or did not have any intention of fulfiling. So it
:14:23. > :14:27.shouldn't be a surprise that at the end of this, when there has been a
:14:27. > :14:30.massive meltdown, a sequence of mistakes that has led to other
:14:30. > :14:35.people's lives being disrupted, whether it is soldiers returning
:14:35. > :14:40.from active warzones, now being reactivated domestically, or
:14:40. > :14:43.policemen now working double and overtime, to make up for those
:14:43. > :14:45.mistakes. Something in there should spark a conscience in these
:14:46. > :14:49.organisations, but we have seen, there is no trend of that happening.
:14:49. > :14:55.It is not a great start, and just putting that point that Ken made,
:14:55. > :14:57.that actually the Met should have been doing this, and not a private
:14:57. > :15:02.organisation, that is very much your political view, that it should
:15:02. > :15:07.be the police service that provides Security Services? You could have
:15:07. > :15:13.given the police half this money, they would have done a damn sight
:15:13. > :15:16.better job than G4S. Let's put it in perspective, the �300 million we
:15:16. > :15:19.are talking about, if you want to put the figure on the new recruits
:15:20. > :15:22.coming into the service, you could have employed 15,000 police
:15:22. > :15:26.officers for a year. That is the sort of service you would have got,
:15:26. > :15:30.not a few thousand guards at the Olympics.
:15:30. > :15:35.In terms of how the Olympics will proceed, you talk about being
:15:35. > :15:39.shocked at Barcelona looking at the apparatus of security. But the
:15:39. > :15:43.athletes themselves will be so focused and honed on this, that
:15:43. > :15:47.what is happening for people trying to get to the games will not be in
:15:47. > :15:50.their peripheral vision even? could almost describe the
:15:50. > :15:54.distinctive psychology of the sports person is to have tunnel
:15:54. > :15:58.vision, and to focus on only those variables that are controllable.
:15:58. > :16:04.Security is not one of those things. If there was a direct and credible
:16:04. > :16:08.threat, as there was, for example, in the World Badminton Championship,
:16:08. > :16:12.it would register, and certain athletes flew home from India.
:16:12. > :16:15.Until that happens they will not be concerned at all. It will barely
:16:15. > :16:17.register that certain state employees are taking over from
:16:17. > :16:21.private sector employees to protect their security. I think something
:16:21. > :16:25.we have to point out as well is, when I spoke to Steve Redgrave
:16:25. > :16:28.about his five Olympics that he went to, he said he was surprised
:16:28. > :16:32.how much they grew during that time, the number of people involved both
:16:32. > :16:35.with athletes and also the press and media who were there as well.
:16:35. > :16:39.The whole focus of the world is on London.
:16:39. > :16:45.Let's say the Olympics can grow a bit more. Today it has been
:16:45. > :16:49.announced that almost half the tickets for football, 1.1 million
:16:49. > :16:53.are not sold, and other non- football tickets. What,
:16:53. > :16:56.realistically do you do with them? I'm not surprised that football
:16:56. > :17:00.tickets have not sold. Because the British footballing public is
:17:00. > :17:04.sophisticated. They understand that the Olympic Games is not the
:17:04. > :17:07.pinnacle of the football calendar. What would you do with them, and
:17:07. > :17:10.the non-football ones. Sebastian Coe says there is ten days until
:17:10. > :17:16.the games start. You don't want to be left with 250,000 non-football
:17:16. > :17:19.tickets, do you? No, I don't think you do. The fact is, I'm sure that
:17:20. > :17:24.there is plenty of logistical things being put in place. I have
:17:24. > :17:27.heard about top teirs of arenas being blocked off and such like.
:17:27. > :17:30.Personally I think there is a legacy opportunity here. There is
:17:30. > :17:34.an opportunity for people who have not, and I'm talking about young
:17:34. > :17:36.people, people from disenfranchised communities, who have not had an
:17:36. > :17:41.opportunity. There is an opportunity here to bring them into
:17:41. > :17:44.the fold of the Olympic Games. Perhaps not on the site, but at
:17:44. > :17:48.these regional venues, there is a real opportunity there. There is a
:17:48. > :17:52.lot of people on the site who don't have tickets for a particular event.
:17:52. > :17:55.When I was mayor I talked to Sebastian Coe, I said look, he was
:17:55. > :17:59.of the same opinion, if people aren't turning up, or there is
:17:59. > :18:03.empty seat, form a queue, let people just come in and see it.
:18:03. > :18:06.of the things we were told by the Government in the police service
:18:06. > :18:10.and elsewhere in the public sector, is we can learn from the private
:18:10. > :18:13.sector, this is a lesson we have learned a very salient lesson, and
:18:13. > :18:18.one the Government should learn about safety and security. On the
:18:18. > :18:22.wider context, is once Team GB starts winning gold medal, these
:18:22. > :18:27.stories over ticketing problems and over security will pale, even over
:18:27. > :18:36.security, will pale. The fundamental issue of security
:18:36. > :18:40.will remain. Thank you very much. Of course while the head of G4S was
:18:40. > :18:42.being grilled by one parliamentary committee, another had in front of
:18:42. > :18:48.it the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King. The Treasury
:18:48. > :18:51.Select Committee gave him no easier ride. Under repeated questioning,
:18:51. > :18:55.certificate Mervyn insisted the first he knew about the
:18:55. > :18:58.manipulation of LIBOR was two weeks ago, and the US authorities hadn't
:18:58. > :19:06.shown him any evidence of wrongdoing when they raised
:19:06. > :19:13.concerns in 2008. At a Senate hearing across the pond, they said
:19:13. > :19:18.the Bank of England had been told of LIBOR issues earlier that year.
:19:18. > :19:24.This LIBOR banking scandal is increasingly resembling a Mexican
:19:24. > :19:29.shootout, except, unlike spaghetti westerns, the goodies are shooting
:19:29. > :19:35.each other. Bob Diamond was gunned down last week, and the deputy,
:19:35. > :19:39.Jerry Del Missier, bit the bullet. Ironically the Barclays' chairman,
:19:39. > :19:44.Marcus Agius, was fatally shot, only to rise from the dead, for now
:19:44. > :19:50.at least. With the main people out of the head the Sheriffs are aiming
:19:50. > :19:55.for each other. They want to know why Bob Diamond
:19:55. > :19:58.was forced out. You were handing the chairman of Barclays a resolver
:19:58. > :20:01.and you were telling him to go and shoot his chief executive?
:20:01. > :20:06.thought the most likely result would be that Bob Diamond would
:20:06. > :20:11.resign. In fact what he did, is he did take the resolver and he
:20:11. > :20:15.decided to shoot himself? Yes, and as I said last night, I think that
:20:15. > :20:24.was an honourable thing to do, I think Mr Agius thought it was the
:20:24. > :20:26.right thing to do, it was not what I was expecting him to do.
:20:26. > :20:31.But while the Bank of England governor, Mervyn King, didn't like
:20:31. > :20:35.using weapons, he was sticking to his guns on circumstances of Mr
:20:35. > :20:39.Diamond's departure, after the LIBOR scandal had broken cover.
:20:40. > :20:44.don't like these firearms analogies, and they are false. The question
:20:44. > :20:48.that was left absolutely with them, I made it very clear, I finished
:20:48. > :20:52.the meeting by saying, I would like you to make clear to the board,
:20:52. > :20:55.that the regulators have expressed these concerns, and the board as a
:20:55. > :20:58.whole needs to know them. They are very concerned and have lost
:20:58. > :21:01.confidence in the executive management. I did not know what the
:21:01. > :21:04.outcome of that meeting would be. It was left to them to discuss it
:21:04. > :21:08.with their board. But when it came to when the
:21:08. > :21:11.governor first knew that LIBOR had been systematically rigged.
:21:11. > :21:15.first I knew was any alleged wrongdoing was when the reports
:21:15. > :21:19.came out two weeks ago. That seemed to clash markedly with a different
:21:19. > :21:28.Sheriff, who was giving evidence to a different set of elected
:21:28. > :21:35.officials. Carl Bernstein said his team had been tipped off about --
:21:35. > :21:38.Mr Bernanke said he had known about 2008. It was tipped off about it
:21:38. > :21:43.when it received information about LIBOR submissions, a phone call in
:21:43. > :21:49.2008, in which a trader in Barclays New York told an employee of the
:21:49. > :21:55.Federal Reserve that he thought that Barclays was under --
:21:55. > :22:00.underreporting its rate. The reserve communicated with the FSA
:22:00. > :22:04.and Bank of England in England. The Governor of the Bank of England
:22:04. > :22:07.concedes he was aware with problems in the rate setting four years ago.
:22:07. > :22:12.He denies he knew of any willful corruption of the rate until a
:22:12. > :22:18.month ago, when all the rest of us were made aware of it. The problem
:22:18. > :22:22.for the governor is, at the very least, he looks niave for not, at
:22:22. > :22:27.least, expecting fraud four years ago, when the governor from across
:22:27. > :22:31.the water was tipping him off. we look at a famous court case
:22:31. > :22:34.coming up again and again, and getting let off by the same judge
:22:34. > :22:37.again and again, would you not question the judge remaining in
:22:37. > :22:41.office. Should there not be questions, given the testimony we
:22:41. > :22:45.have seen by the FSA and the Bank of England, that something just
:22:45. > :22:52.does not stack up. The regulation has not worked. The system has
:22:52. > :22:55.clearly failed, and something needs to be done, and it needs to be done
:22:56. > :23:01.now. When you see the regulation and action in the US, things seem
:23:01. > :23:05.to happen and quickly. We saw another example of that today, yet
:23:05. > :23:11.another British bank accused of willfuling ignoring the rules for
:23:11. > :23:14.gain. HSBC was in the dock, for aiding America's enemies, by
:23:14. > :23:20.allowing ill gotten gains fundamental through their accounts.
:23:20. > :23:26.At HSBC we uncovered troubling examples in which weak system may
:23:26. > :23:29.have allowed criminal or terror funds pass through. The ent the
:23:29. > :23:36.regulatory entities have concluded that because of the volume of money,
:23:36. > :23:39.it probably came from the proceeds of ill gotten drug deeds. They were
:23:40. > :23:44.coached on how to get the funds through the US without information.
:23:44. > :23:51.Unlike the man at Barclays, the man responsible from HSBC fell quickly
:23:51. > :23:54.on his sword. As I have thought about the transmission of the bank,
:23:54. > :23:57.I recommended it was time for me and the bank for someone to head as
:23:57. > :24:01.head of group compliance. I have agreed to work with the senior
:24:01. > :24:06.management towards an orderly transition of this important role.
:24:06. > :24:10.Right now there are eight separate investigations on both sides of the
:24:10. > :24:16.Atlantic, either suspected fraud or illegal banking activety. So many
:24:16. > :24:20.it will appear like the bolt on the stable door has been polished, long
:24:20. > :24:23.after the stallion has run off into the sunset.
:24:23. > :24:27.Brilliant at ideas, rubbish at making money out of them. For years
:24:27. > :24:32.Britain has tried to shake off that image, but the financial strictures
:24:33. > :24:35.of the last couple of years have made the problem worse, just as
:24:36. > :24:40.fashioning a knowledge-based economy is paramount. In cancer
:24:40. > :24:44.therapy that is acute. One of the most exciting new treatments,
:24:44. > :24:48.immunotherapy, is beginning to show promise, just as funding for
:24:48. > :24:54.crucial research is drying up. Philanthropy has come to the rescue,
:24:54. > :24:58.with a massive donation of �20 million. Are such acts the way
:24:58. > :25:02.ahead. One of the beneficiaries of the funds and the science minister
:25:02. > :25:09.will be with us, but first this. Most of us know someone who has
:25:09. > :25:13.been there. Waiting, to see if it is cancer.
:25:13. > :25:20.Waiting to see if the cancer is gone. Waiting to see if it has come
:25:20. > :25:24.back. Even the best treatments can buy only a few months of extra time.
:25:24. > :25:34.Now, scientists think one approach could lead us to our best hope of a
:25:34. > :25:38.
:25:38. > :25:44.cure. But the money, to make that leap, is drying up. Ben Perdriau
:25:44. > :25:49.and his wife have thrown in from Austrailia he was diagnosed with
:25:49. > :25:53.melanoma, there was news last year it spread to the brain. His body
:25:53. > :25:57.has shown resistance to conventional drugs. Two or three
:25:57. > :26:01.hours after the treatment you get a temperature, 39-40, you start to
:26:01. > :26:07.shiver and shake. He's about to start a new approach, one that
:26:07. > :26:11.enlists the power of his own immune system to fight the cancer. He's
:26:11. > :26:19.only the third person to try this pioneering treatment in the UK.
:26:19. > :26:23.goal is to look for something with a more promise and durable response,
:26:23. > :26:29.hopefully in a complete response that can last for several years, if
:26:29. > :26:35.not indefinitely. So, the therapy that's being developed and been
:26:35. > :26:42.administered here is something that does hold that promise. So I'm here
:26:42. > :26:48.putting my hand up for it. This is a melanoma cell, being
:26:48. > :26:51.attacked by two killer T-cells. Killer T-cells are in the body's
:26:52. > :26:55.frontline of immune defence, scientists want to use their power
:26:55. > :26:59.to fight cancer. They have already found they can do this by
:26:59. > :27:03.stimulating their production with drugs. Now, they are working on a
:27:03. > :27:09.new approach. Taking killer T-cells out of the patient, and growing
:27:09. > :27:16.more of them. Creating an attacking army that can be safely reinjected.
:27:16. > :27:22.This whole approach is called immunotherapy.
:27:22. > :27:27.Tonight there is some good news to report in the fight against cancer.
:27:27. > :27:32.An experimental treatment... America last year, a team in the
:27:32. > :27:39.university of Pennsylvania reported a major breakthrough in
:27:39. > :27:44.immunotherapy. I am Full health with no cancer. There was dramatic
:27:44. > :27:48.improvemented in three leukaemia patients, two were in full
:27:48. > :27:55.remission within the year. News greeted with excitement throughout
:27:55. > :28:00.the world. Here in the UK there have been simply dramatic results.
:28:00. > :28:05.Stan was diagnosed with gastric cancer in 2004 chemotherapy reduced
:28:05. > :28:08.the size of the tumour, but it had grown again two years later.
:28:08. > :28:13.Professor Hawkins of the Christie Hospital in man chest, began
:28:13. > :28:19.treating him five years ago, - Manchester, began treating him five
:28:19. > :28:23.years ago with a drug taken out of his own immune system, a drug that
:28:23. > :28:27.shows remarkable promise. This is the scan from five years ago, that
:28:27. > :28:32.is the tumour in the liver there, this is the one a few weeks ago.
:28:32. > :28:38.Now we can hardly see, hardly anything abnormal there. Sustained
:28:38. > :28:41.for a long period of time. Very encouraging. This is extremely
:28:41. > :28:48.encouraging. It is quite remarkable as a response, there is no doubt it
:28:48. > :28:53.is due to the effects of T-cells in his body. I think what it shows us
:28:53. > :28:59.is if we get this type of T-cells right we should be able to get that
:28:59. > :29:04.on a reproducable, probably not in every patient, but in a high
:29:04. > :29:08.proportion of patients I think we do need to do more trials to test
:29:08. > :29:14.that, and probably to improve the process further.
:29:14. > :29:19.How do you feel after seeing Professor Hawkins today? Very good,
:29:19. > :29:25.actually. Very good. It was enlightning to see the cells, and
:29:25. > :29:30.for him to explain, the way he did. It has given me bait of a boost,
:29:30. > :29:33.really. I know now -- me a bit of a boost. I now know, I have always
:29:33. > :29:39.known the treatment is working, but to actually see it on the screen is
:29:39. > :29:45.very, very encouraging. His tumour hasn't gone, but Stan is now in
:29:45. > :29:52.long-term remission. Ben's on his way to undergo the
:29:52. > :29:56.first part of his treatment. This goes one step beyond Stan's. He's
:29:56. > :30:01.having a melanoma tumour on his shoulder removed, the team will
:30:01. > :30:07.search inside the tumour itself for killer T-cells, tell tale signs of
:30:07. > :30:12.Ben's body fighting back. The idea is to multiply up these cells
:30:12. > :30:15.outside his body, then reinject them to do their job. These new
:30:15. > :30:20.immunotherapies over the last couple of years, have given us
:30:20. > :30:23.great cause for excitement, especially the patients with more
:30:23. > :30:27.advanced diseases. The options for them are some what limited. Some of
:30:27. > :30:31.the effects we have been seeing with these new therapies have been
:30:31. > :30:36.really quite encouraging, I'm sure they will only get better over the
:30:36. > :30:41.course of the next few years. is one of the UK's leading experts
:30:41. > :30:46.in clinical immunology, his ground- breaking work on HIV helped uncover
:30:46. > :30:52.important clues to the way the immune system works. He has been
:30:53. > :30:58.applying those clues to the fight against cancer. One vital clue was
:30:58. > :31:04.that tumours themselves cleverly dampen down our immune systems.
:31:04. > :31:07.we can reconstruct the immune system that is being attacked in
:31:07. > :31:11.patients that we can't take them out of hospital because it is too
:31:11. > :31:14.much. That is the first of the building blocks, you bring the
:31:14. > :31:18.immune system back to normal before you do anything else. Because then
:31:18. > :31:23.if you give chemotherapy or radiotherapy that treatment is more
:31:23. > :31:27.likely to work. It has recently been reported that some of these
:31:27. > :31:30.these new treatment that is takes the brakes of the immune system and
:31:30. > :31:36.allows it to be functional again, when you radiate a tumour, because
:31:36. > :31:40.it is a little bit too big, the other tumours will disagree as well.
:31:40. > :31:43.The treatment matters so much for Ben, because his tumour has
:31:43. > :31:46.developed resistance to the best that chemotherapy can offer. The
:31:46. > :31:52.question is whether the team can retrieve enough tumour material
:31:52. > :31:57.from his shoulder to work with in the laboratory. Then, they have to
:31:57. > :32:03.hope that any killer T shells they will find in that material will
:32:03. > :32:08.grow, to form an economy -- T-cells they will find in that material
:32:08. > :32:12.will grow to form an army to fight for Ben. The UK really has a chance
:32:12. > :32:19.to lead the world in immunotherapy, but they face a hurdle to get to
:32:19. > :32:23.the next stage. This time it is not about science, but money.
:32:23. > :32:30.It has revolutionised what we do we use this all the time. We have a
:32:30. > :32:34.group of chemists interacting with the structure in 3-D, designing and
:32:34. > :32:40.making molecules. This is the head of the Institute of Cancer Research,
:32:40. > :32:46.scientists here use the latest in 3-D visualisation technology to
:32:46. > :32:51.design new drugs against cancer. Working out the best structure,
:32:51. > :32:54.atom-by at tomorrow. You can be knee deep with the design team and
:32:54. > :33:00.group of biologists, saying here is a cavity and a pocket in the
:33:00. > :33:04.protein we are trying to hit, how can we design a molecule and
:33:04. > :33:09.capture its 3-D structure. science is exciting, but struggling
:33:09. > :33:12.to get beyond the lab. Right now we have the combination of the mos
:33:12. > :33:16.exciting science, and the most frustrating financial situation. We
:33:16. > :33:20.have the cancer genome, and immune approaches, and incredible science
:33:20. > :33:25.and ideas, and we can't fund it. We have to come up with creative
:33:25. > :33:28.approaches. It has to be some kind of partnership between industry,
:33:28. > :33:33.between Government and from non- profit organisations, charities,
:33:33. > :33:37.philanthropy, that will fill this prij of the valley of death,
:33:37. > :33:41.between excellent basic science, and -- bridge between the valley of
:33:41. > :33:46.death, between excellent basic science and the financial issues.
:33:46. > :33:49.Since the financial crash, money for new research has been trying up.
:33:49. > :33:53.Cancer research would normally look to Government, charities or
:33:53. > :33:58.business to take the work forward. Britain's largest cancer charity
:33:58. > :34:02.has found it so hard to secure money and partners, it has set up
:34:02. > :34:08.its own cancer investment fund. Cancer research UK's commercial arm
:34:08. > :34:11.is spending �25 million, with equal funding from Europe, on this new
:34:11. > :34:15.investment strategy. In the last five to ten years there have been
:34:15. > :34:18.far fewer new small companies that we historically have used as our
:34:19. > :34:22.development partners formed, because of what has happened in
:34:23. > :34:26.venture capital. Secondly, the industry has migrated away from
:34:26. > :34:30.early stage research, we really found it difficult to find places
:34:30. > :34:35.to partner the projects. We have needed to do it ourselves, and the
:34:35. > :34:39.fund is a mechanism to do that. Scientists at the institute
:34:39. > :34:46.recently published exciting work on one form of inmuen know therapy,
:34:46. > :34:50.using a virus that -- immunotherapy, using a virus that hitch as ride on
:34:50. > :34:55.T-cells. It trigger the immune system to attack, a bit like a
:34:55. > :34:59.vaccine. Is there more politicians should be doing to make sure the UK
:34:59. > :35:03.stays at the cutting edge? Government can facilitate many
:35:03. > :35:08.different aspects of this. It can help with the funding of basic
:35:08. > :35:12.science and universities and research institutes, it can make it
:35:12. > :35:15.easier for industries to operate and be successful. It can act as a
:35:15. > :35:18.catalyst for bringing all these things together in a consortium,
:35:18. > :35:21.for the good of cancer patients around the world. Is that happening
:35:21. > :35:31.to best effect at the moment? think good efforts are being made,
:35:31. > :35:32.
:35:32. > :35:39.more can be done. Ben's tumour sample, and hopefully
:35:39. > :35:43.the killer T-cells it contains are ready to travel. From the hospital,
:35:43. > :35:49.straight to the team's cell laboratory some miles away. Here
:35:49. > :35:54.they will be carefully nutured over the next few weeks. The best hope
:35:54. > :35:59.is an immediate response, even if that doesn't or kur but there is
:35:59. > :36:03.some shrinkage, that is a major benefit, doin the track something
:36:03. > :36:09.else might come along and I will have access to that. Four weeks
:36:09. > :36:12.later and we have an update, the team found relatively few killer T-
:36:12. > :36:16.cells in the sample, but they have grown well in the lab, and will be
:36:16. > :36:25.ready to reinject into Ben in early August. Whilst nothing is certain,
:36:25. > :36:28.he has been told the treatment does have a 50-50 chance of working.
:36:28. > :36:33.Drug resistence is one of the biggest challenges in the fight
:36:33. > :36:38.against cancer. Doctors need a new weapon. And many scientists now
:36:38. > :36:42.believe that answer lies within ourselves, our own immune systems.
:36:42. > :36:47.But unless we find a way to pay to take the research like this beyond
:36:47. > :36:51.a handful of patients, and attract in further funding, then however
:36:51. > :37:00.good the science, other patients, like Ben, will have to carry on
:37:00. > :37:06.waiting. Watching that was the science
:37:06. > :37:11.minister, David Willets, a member of the science and technology
:37:11. > :37:16.policy research unit at Suffolk university, and the chief clinician
:37:16. > :37:19.at cancer research UK. Lets let lets, we could lead the world in
:37:19. > :37:23.immunology, we could also, according to David Cameron, have
:37:23. > :37:31.life sciences as the jewel in the crown of our economy, so why is
:37:31. > :37:35.there a four-year freeze on the �4.6 billion science project, which
:37:35. > :37:40.actually, over the time, with inflation, means that actually it
:37:40. > :37:44.is a 10% cut in our overall science budget? We have protected the
:37:44. > :37:48.science budget in cash terms, and actually. But there is a cut?
:37:48. > :37:52.the medical research budget, partly because of the income that it gets
:37:52. > :37:58.from previous discoveries, as being protected against inflation as well.
:37:58. > :38:02.That money is going to medical research. Now, then, the medical
:38:02. > :38:06.researchers are absolutely up for ideas on immunotherapy and other
:38:06. > :38:10.developments, that is a decision, quite rightly, for the scientific
:38:10. > :38:14.community, not me as a minister. you look at it in overall terms,
:38:14. > :38:17.there is a 10% cut in the science budget. You may cut the science
:38:17. > :38:22.budget in a different way to give more money elsewhere. But, in fact,
:38:22. > :38:27.the overall impact is a 10% cut, when other countries, coming out of
:38:27. > :38:31.deficit, looking at China, and looking at Germany, and also at
:38:31. > :38:34.America, they are making the life sciences budget a priority. They
:38:35. > :38:40.see the huge returns and benefits to their population of bucking the
:38:40. > :38:44.trend in cut and investing more? And the science budget has been, we
:38:45. > :38:47.are making life sciences a priority. Medical research, as it is enjoying
:38:47. > :38:51.the benefits of previous discoveries, and has been protected
:38:51. > :38:54.against inflation as well. On top of that, with the life sciences
:38:55. > :38:58.strategy last December, we have put more money into the correct
:38:58. > :39:02.challenge that was identified in your package, breaching the valley
:39:02. > :39:07.of death, from the pure research sponsored by the Medical Research
:39:07. > :39:12.Council, to commercial businesses. It is not nearly enough. From your
:39:12. > :39:15.point of view, this gap that is leading to the valley of death, the
:39:15. > :39:18.basic research in getting the trials complete and out to patients.
:39:18. > :39:22.It doesn't need to be more money out of the British economy into
:39:22. > :39:26.life sciences? First of all, I think the latest figures from the
:39:26. > :39:31.latest campaign from science and engineering is there is a 14.6%
:39:31. > :39:35.real court in the British science spending when you include capital
:39:35. > :39:39.spending. This is at the same time when our competitors, Germany, for
:39:39. > :39:43.example, has increase bid 15%. Innovation is very pack dependant,
:39:43. > :39:48.it depends on innovation yesterday, if we are not in the game today, we
:39:48. > :39:54.will not be in the game ten years time. It is better to get rid of
:39:54. > :39:58.the Bev sit, and get in the game. David Cameron says words like life
:39:58. > :40:03.sciences being the jewel in the crown, but if you are going to make
:40:03. > :40:06.a cut of that extent, we will fall exponentially behind? We have a
:40:06. > :40:11.world class science base, when tough decisions are being taken, we
:40:11. > :40:16.have provided the cash protection, and including for more life
:40:16. > :40:19.sciences, and extra initiatives of breaching the valley of death.
:40:19. > :40:23.Interesting research that shows even in the US Government goes
:40:23. > :40:27.closer to market in supporting life sciences. We are now doing the same
:40:27. > :40:33.in Britain with our life sciences strategy. But the figures matter
:40:33. > :40:39.n2012 the NIH, the National Institute of Health, one of the
:40:39. > :40:43.main funders for pharmaceutical and biomedical research, spend �31
:40:43. > :40:49.billion. This �20 million donation is wonderful news, we are talking
:40:49. > :40:53.about an area where one drug costs �1 billion. �20 million was your
:40:53. > :40:58.announcement today from a philanthropist, it is a tremendous
:40:58. > :41:02.and real gf gift, but �20 million is nothing? It is the largest
:41:02. > :41:06.donation we have had. I think it is a recognition on the part of our
:41:06. > :41:09.supporters, that this is a really exciting and vibrant area of
:41:09. > :41:12.science, where the UK does have the potential to lead the world,
:41:12. > :41:18.because of the partnership between the universities and the health
:41:18. > :41:22.system, which has been invested in very substantially by Cancer
:41:23. > :41:26.Research UK. Can philanthropy take the place of Government funding, or,
:41:26. > :41:30.indeed, venture capital coming in with a lot of money? I think the
:41:30. > :41:37.things have to work together. One of the things we understand about
:41:37. > :41:41.inmuenology, is it is extremely complicated, it doesn't -- it
:41:41. > :41:44.doesn't like being told what to do. We have to understand at a
:41:44. > :41:48.fundamental level how these things work, that is not just what a
:41:48. > :41:50.pharmaceutical company will do. It is rich scientific culture
:41:50. > :41:55.dependant on all different streams of funding. Different streams of
:41:55. > :41:59.funding? People talk about the ecosystem, and it sounds very
:41:59. > :42:03.romantic, but when you look at who the different actors are in that
:42:03. > :42:07.system, venture capital has been extremely problematic in this
:42:08. > :42:12.industry, it is a high-risk, uncertain industry, where you have
:42:13. > :42:19.14 years between discovery and commercial realisation, and they
:42:19. > :42:29.want quick profits in low-risk areas. That is why you have all the
:42:29. > :42:33.buy metric companies that produce a lot of money but have no results.
:42:33. > :42:37.If you want patient capital, that should be coming, whether from
:42:37. > :42:40.public funding n Brazil it comes from state investment bank, also,
:42:40. > :42:46.it is fascinating, we have been talking about Barclays obviously a
:42:46. > :42:52.lot in the last two weeks, Barclays and GSK, as well Aslam tro Zenica,
:42:52. > :42:58.are three of the companies -- astro Zenica, who are three of the
:42:58. > :43:02.companies who spend most on stock. GSK spends more on R & D than any
:43:02. > :43:06.private company in Britain. If you look at King's Cross, you will see
:43:06. > :43:09.Cancer Research UK, and the British Government through Medical Research
:43:09. > :43:14.Councils and Britain's leading universities, coming together to
:43:14. > :43:23.put half a million into a new medical research centre. Half a
:43:23. > :43:27.that is a lot of money, but if you take what is said, �33 billion in
:43:27. > :43:31.America? We are absolutely aware thater endlessly competing with
:43:31. > :43:35.other environments, I still think - - that we are endlessly competing
:43:35. > :43:38.with other environments, I'm still convinced with the life sciences
:43:38. > :43:41.budget and the excellent universities, and other things,
:43:41. > :43:44.that Britain is a world class player. We are competing with other
:43:44. > :43:49.countries trying to raise their game. It is not that we don't have
:43:49. > :43:52.great scientists who can actually, that can actually work on the
:43:52. > :43:55.starting blocks, but is this valley of death getting us to a situation
:43:56. > :44:00.where every NHS patient can get the treatment they want, and that takes
:44:00. > :44:03.public money? I accept that, that is why, better than I would say
:44:03. > :44:07.than any previous Government, we are focusing on getting the public
:44:07. > :44:13.funding closer to market, and the NHS to buy the stuff. That way you
:44:13. > :44:18.can bridge the gap. Can that happen, when, there is a real cut in the
:44:18. > :44:23.science budget? We eventually put extra money into the technology
:44:23. > :44:27.strategy board, which is putting in �90 million, alongside medical
:44:27. > :44:32.research money, precisely to take ideas closer to market. That is
:44:32. > :44:36.historically a valley of death in Britain. �90 million as a one-off
:44:36. > :44:41.or annually or monthly? It is a continuing flow of investment. This
:44:41. > :44:45.Government, with that life science catalyst fund. It is one �90
:44:45. > :44:49.million tranche? It is a continuing programme aimed at taking research
:44:49. > :44:54.closer to commercialisation, because as was correct low argued,
:44:54. > :45:00.that we need to supply that funding close to market. You said �90
:45:00. > :45:05.million, is it �90 million, or a year, or a month, or one tranche of
:45:05. > :45:09.�90 million? It is �180 million over three years that will go into
:45:10. > :45:13.this programme. Sorry, but at the same time, Pfizer has left, GSK is
:45:13. > :45:17.leaving, others are leaving, where are they going? One of the
:45:17. > :45:23.countries in the world that is spending the most public money.
:45:23. > :45:33.�800 billion in the last 60 years has been spent by the US. Looking
:45:33. > :45:56.
:45:56. > :46:01.at tomorrow morning's front pages, There is to be no swan upping, the
:46:01. > :46:06.annual census of swans has been going on since medieval times,
:46:06. > :46:10.though the Monarch has long stopped eating them. It has been cancelled
:46:10. > :46:20.because of the floods, if you are desperate to count swans, we can
:46:20. > :46:54.
:46:54. > :46:57.Hello, before we get any warm sunny weather there is more rain to come.
:46:57. > :47:00.It stays wet on Wednesday, heavy showers follow the overnight rain
:47:00. > :47:04.into Northern Ireland, we will see it turning showery across England
:47:04. > :47:08.and Wales. The showers could be heavy, there will be some sunshine
:47:08. > :47:13.between them in northern England. A few thundery showers will work
:47:13. > :47:16.across the Midlands during the afternoon. Very few showers, London
:47:16. > :47:19.and southwards, it may well stay dry. There will be a noticable
:47:19. > :47:23.breeze blowing a strong south- westerly wind, it will take the
:47:23. > :47:26.edge off the temperatures. A wet morning for the south west of
:47:26. > :47:29.England and Wales, it will be followed by sunshine and showers,
:47:29. > :47:33.most of the showers will be in the north. Some could be heavy.
:47:33. > :47:36.Northern Ireland, where we get sunshine and heavy showers, the
:47:36. > :47:40.rain may come back in the north later on in the day. It is still
:47:40. > :47:44.there all day, across central, southern Scotland. There could be a