:00:13. > :00:18.Tonight, a bomb at the heart of the Syrian regime, the President's
:00:18. > :00:22.brother-in-law and two close advisers dead. Is this a turning
:00:22. > :00:27.point in the conflict to overthrow President Assad? With Government
:00:27. > :00:31.troops on the streets of Damascus, the Obama regime claims the regime
:00:31. > :00:34.is losing control. There is democratic gridlock at the United
:00:34. > :00:37.Nations. We will hear from the Foreign Office what they think
:00:37. > :00:40.happened today and should happen next.
:00:40. > :00:45.In an exclusive Newsnight interview, former President, Bill Clinton, on
:00:45. > :00:49.a trip to Africa, talks about Nelson Mandela intervening in Syria
:00:49. > :00:53.and weather his wife might still run, dr whether his wife might
:00:53. > :00:56.still run for the presidency in 2016. That is a long way away, and
:00:56. > :01:03.we are not kids away, and there are a lot of people who want to be
:01:03. > :01:08.President, and a lot of things that could happen between now and then.
:01:09. > :01:13.Unemployment drops for the fourth month running.
:01:14. > :01:18.Defiantly people are clinging on to their jobs, flouting the rules of
:01:18. > :01:23.the depression. What is going on. The British music industry turns
:01:23. > :01:27.its fire on Google over on-line firecy, but illegal downloading is
:01:27. > :01:33.not going away, even the bands don't know what to think. I should
:01:33. > :01:43.feel terrible, right? But, I can't really lie and say that I don't
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :01:47.really feel that bad about it. At first the Syrian state media
:01:47. > :01:51.called it saw side bomb, then changed the story to a terrorist
:01:51. > :01:55.attack. Then the rumour mill hit top gear, with stories of panic and
:01:55. > :01:59.anger right at the top of Bashar Al-Assad's regime. Whatever really
:01:59. > :02:04.happened in Damascus today, it appears a bomb killed at least
:02:04. > :02:07.three of the Government's top people attending a meeting of
:02:07. > :02:11.security chiefs. One President Assad's brother-in-law. Britain
:02:11. > :02:18.condemned the attack, and then confirmed the need for the United
:02:18. > :02:21.Nations to take action. We try to make sense of fact, rumour and
:02:21. > :02:24.propaganda. Killed or wounded in a single blast,
:02:24. > :02:28.some of the men closest to President Assad, including his own
:02:28. > :02:33.brother-in-law, the men responsible for putting down the uprising. It
:02:33. > :02:37.is a body-blow to the Syrian regime. They have been confering in the
:02:37. > :02:42.heart of dam kas cuss, at the national security headquarters.
:02:42. > :02:46.Afterwards, as journalists arrived on the scene, security seemed very
:02:46. > :02:51.low-key, which raises questions of what really happened. No pictures
:02:51. > :02:55.have emerged yet of the scene of the explosion or the victims. Was
:02:55. > :03:00.the perpetrator a suicide bomber, or a Government bodyguard working
:03:00. > :03:05.secretly for the rebels as other sources suggest. Sow little is
:03:05. > :03:13.known about the attack, and the regime inpenetrable, that rumours
:03:13. > :03:16.have been flying around Dammer mass cuss, was it to cover the fact that
:03:16. > :03:20.the brother-in-law was already dead, of the Defence Minister killed
:03:20. > :03:24.because he was plotting a coup. There is no evidence for any of
:03:24. > :03:30.this. The truth is probably sim letter, but no less dramatic, that
:03:30. > :03:34.this was an audacious coup by the rebels, for which the state of
:03:34. > :03:37.wholly unprepared. The fact there is no footage indicates they were
:03:37. > :03:41.completely taken aback, they had no idea something like this was coming.
:03:41. > :03:46.It also shows, the purpose of today as attack, of not to overthrow the
:03:46. > :03:49.Government in one go, it was to sow fear and paranoia within the inner
:03:49. > :03:52.circle, the surviving members of the Al-Assad regime, to show them
:03:52. > :03:55.how close the rebels can come. Those killed were the Defence
:03:55. > :04:00.Minister, Daoud Rajiha, thought to be one of the few Christian
:04:00. > :04:04.officials in the regime, a former Defence Minister, General Hassan
:04:04. > :04:11.Turkomani, who headed the President's crisis-management
:04:11. > :04:18.office, and most importantly, the shadowy figure of Asssef Shawkat,
:04:18. > :04:22.married to the President's sister. He's seen as the overseer of the
:04:22. > :04:28.security forces office, they are extremely sophisticated and feared.
:04:28. > :04:33.He's also the liaison between Damascus and Hezbollah. This
:04:33. > :04:39.Government is not despairing though. The Government don't depend on a
:04:39. > :04:44.few five or, six guys, they are a very large Government, and a
:04:44. > :04:52.regional player. There is some gunmen, and some called Free Syrian
:04:52. > :04:59.Army on the ground. I believe the army will deal with them, they did
:05:00. > :05:04.deal with Homs, Douma and all these areas. Today state television
:05:04. > :05:08.showed soldiers shooting in the streets of Damascus. Today the
:05:08. > :05:12.fighting has come ever closer to the city. The pressure is on
:05:12. > :05:17.outside powers to find a diplomatic solution. All of the concerns we
:05:17. > :05:26.have expressed about the need for Al-Assad to step down, the need for
:05:26. > :05:31.a peaceful transition, the need to achieve a peaceful solution to that
:05:31. > :05:35.situation. By ignoring those appeals, by the international
:05:35. > :05:41.community, that the violence there has only gotten worse and the loss
:05:41. > :05:45.of lives is only increased. That tells us that this is a
:05:45. > :05:50.situation that is rapidly spinning out of control. Tonight, the UN
:05:50. > :05:53.Security Council delayed voting on a new resolution on Syria, with
:05:53. > :05:59.Russia still opposing western demands for further sanctions
:05:59. > :06:03.against the regime. Meanwhile, in a partly rebel held
:06:03. > :06:07.north of Syria, people celebrated today at the news of the
:06:07. > :06:11.assassinations in Damascus. But is this really the turning point they
:06:11. > :06:18.hope for? The beginning of the end game for Assad? It could take weeks
:06:18. > :06:21.or months or a year. There are a lot of toys at Bashar Al-Assad's
:06:21. > :06:26.disposal, he hasn't deployed fighter jets against his population.
:06:26. > :06:29.We heard last week, according to American estimate, chemical
:06:29. > :06:34.stockpiles are being moved around the country. There is a lot more
:06:34. > :06:37.damage this man can do before the regime falls. The Government won't
:06:38. > :06:45.fall in Syria, because it has a strength. There is a support, there
:06:45. > :06:51.is a lot of support of the Syrians, you know. There is also the support
:06:51. > :06:58.of 2.8 million of the Ba'ath Party members. 1.4 million of them in
:06:58. > :07:02.Damascus, and the Ba'ath Party, as you know, they used to be the only
:07:02. > :07:07.ruling party, and the ruling party in Syria. Today, judging by
:07:07. > :07:11.unverified video from rebels, clashes were continuing in Damascus.
:07:11. > :07:15.Psychologically, the regime's suffered a major defeat. But
:07:15. > :07:22.militarily, and politically, it is not finished yet.
:07:22. > :07:25.In a moment we will hear from Alistair Burke, the Foreign Office
:07:25. > :07:28.minister. But first our guest in Washington.
:07:28. > :07:37.What are you hearing about who was responsible for this attack, and
:07:37. > :07:45.how did they carry it out? course it is the Free Syrian Army
:07:45. > :07:49.who carried out the attack. Forces from the Damascus suburbs carried
:07:49. > :07:54.out the attack. It has been planned for some time. The whole operation
:07:54. > :07:59.has been well-planned for over two months now. In order to use the
:07:59. > :08:08.time before Ramadan, and the holy month of Muslim, it starts on July
:08:08. > :08:12.20th, we do expect that more intense clash, and targets to be
:08:12. > :08:15.targeted between now and July 20th or 25th, a lot depends on the
:08:15. > :08:18.reaction of the regime, whether they will use chemical weapons in
:08:18. > :08:21.the capital, whether they will level or shell certain
:08:21. > :08:25.neighbourhoods in the capital. you worry about the world reaction
:08:25. > :08:28.to this. Because the Syrian National Council, which you
:08:28. > :08:31.represent supports the Free Syrian Army, some people will think of a
:08:31. > :08:35.bombing like this as an act of terrorism? The international
:08:35. > :08:40.position is now, with all due respect, is irrelevant. The
:08:40. > :08:45.international community has been watching Syrians being slaughtered
:08:45. > :08:50.on TV screens for 15 months now without moving or weren'ting
:08:50. > :08:55.anything significant to stop -- presenting anything significant to
:08:55. > :08:59.stop the bloodshed in Syria. It has been held hostage by China and
:08:59. > :09:03.Russia, and there hasn't been a condemnation resolution, let alone
:09:03. > :09:09.a resolution to bring any peace to the country. Syrians on the ground
:09:09. > :09:19.have realised the only way to end this tyranny, and to end the error
:09:19. > :09:25.of Mafia and vicious regime is by doing it by their own hands. That
:09:26. > :09:30.is what we have seen. They have learned that clashing and seizing
:09:30. > :09:34.territory will not bring the regime down, but hitting the lion's den in
:09:34. > :09:38.Damascus, and hitting hard. Do you also expect, you said as everyone
:09:38. > :09:42.knows the holy month of Ramadan is just about to begin, from the point
:09:42. > :09:46.of view of the Free Syrian Army, there will be more attacks in
:09:46. > :09:49.Damascus, from the point of view of the regime, there could be much
:09:49. > :09:55.further repression, you even raised yourself the possible use of
:09:55. > :10:01.chemical weapons in Damascus itself? If the regime used the
:10:01. > :10:06.chemical weapons any way on Syrians and in Damascus, this will be a
:10:06. > :10:09.complete game-changer, even Russia and China can't stand in front of
:10:09. > :10:15.the security resolution now, and allowing the use of force to get
:10:15. > :10:20.rid of this regime. They may threaten the use of it, only in the
:10:20. > :10:23.coming days we will know. The very significant point here is that this
:10:23. > :10:29.attack took place less than three miles away from the Presidential
:10:29. > :10:39.Palace. The circle around Assad, and at top level, is shrinking
:10:39. > :10:40.
:10:40. > :10:44.dramatically. That was forced -- that forced the command and army in
:10:44. > :10:51.Syria to call for the bringing back of the fighting units that have
:10:51. > :10:57.been disperseded throughout the country. And brirpbg, even the most
:10:57. > :11:01.vicious and blood -- bring even some of the most vicious and bloody
:11:01. > :11:06.paramilitary groups to Damascus, in order to try to stop the SFA from
:11:06. > :11:09.taking more ground in Siria. They withdrew some troops from the Golan
:11:09. > :11:14.Heights and brought them back to Damascus.
:11:14. > :11:16.Thank you very much. Minister, you heard what he said,
:11:16. > :11:23.effectively that the international community has done absolutely
:11:23. > :11:30.nothing. There is not even a condemnationry resolution in the UN,
:11:30. > :11:37.which means that the Syrians have to take it in their hand? He's
:11:37. > :11:42.right to point the finger of failure at the UN, to not even have
:11:42. > :11:47.a condemnatory resolution, despite all our efforts to try to get the
:11:47. > :11:50.council to work together, we have been thwarted by this issue.
:11:50. > :11:55.says you are held hostage by Russia's view? The UN Security
:11:55. > :11:58.Council has to act together, I think the net effect is the same.
:11:58. > :12:02.That is why we are trying so hard in the light of today's events,
:12:02. > :12:05.which is shocking and has huge significance, to say there is now
:12:05. > :12:09.real urgency for the international community to demonstrate that it is
:12:09. > :12:13.prepared to act together. So we are going to table a chapter 7
:12:13. > :12:17.resolution, calling for real teeth, in terms of sanctions, to be put
:12:17. > :12:20.behind Kofi Annan's plan. Which is for a ceasefire, to allow peaceful
:12:20. > :12:24.dialogue to take place. That is the answer, not more violence. There
:12:24. > :12:27.are those who think it is a convenient excuse to blame the
:12:27. > :12:30.Russians and Chinese, and so on, in fact, if you did get that
:12:30. > :12:34.resolution people would say what are you going to do. Are you going
:12:34. > :12:37.to put boots on the ground, what was the risk to British or American
:12:37. > :12:42.or other personnel, the Americans don't want it in an election year,
:12:42. > :12:44.and nobody wants another Iraq or Afghanistan? The resolution we are
:12:45. > :12:47.talking about now does not put boots on the ground, there is no
:12:47. > :12:50.suggestion of that. What the resolution would do, by
:12:51. > :12:55.demonstrating Russia's support for a resolution that would call for UN
:12:55. > :12:58.sanctions against Syria. It would demonstrate to the regime that if
:12:58. > :13:01.it thinks it has Moscow has a friend, that is not necessarily the
:13:01. > :13:04.case. What has to happen is the regime has to understand that the
:13:04. > :13:07.Syrian people are looking for change, we need to get the
:13:07. > :13:12.ceasefire in place to ensure that some sort of political dialogue
:13:12. > :13:19.takes place. That was the plan that Kofi Annan put forward. That was
:13:19. > :13:22.backed by the UN, it hasn't been delivered, but it must be now.
:13:22. > :13:25.Don't you think realities on the ground have changed, everyone said
:13:25. > :13:29.they wanted Kofi Annan's plan to work, but things have got worse.
:13:29. > :13:34.You have heard there, the holey month of Ramadan won't bring relief
:13:34. > :13:44.from the fighting, it might be the opposite? What we have heard
:13:44. > :13:49.confirms our sense of confirm and - - concern and more to be done. The
:13:49. > :13:52.longer this goes on the longer it will take for Syria to recover. As
:13:52. > :13:55.soon as the violence stops there will be talking. We say it has to
:13:55. > :13:59.happen now, because the longer it goes on the worse it is. That is
:13:59. > :14:03.why we are so determined to carry through the diplomatic efforts.
:14:03. > :14:08.you see today as a hipping point? think today is significant in terms
:14:08. > :14:13.of who was killed, and how close it was. It is impossible to say if it
:14:13. > :14:17.is an individual tipping point. What I can be sure is over the last
:14:17. > :14:21.few weeks we have seen things we haven't seen before, there has been
:14:21. > :14:26.defections, a loss of troops off ground. More support for the
:14:26. > :14:29.opposition building up. Slowly and surely the pressure is building on
:14:30. > :14:35.the regime. If it could be built with diplomatic pressure, and
:14:35. > :14:40.Russia is vietiaal -- vital, we think this would make the
:14:40. > :14:44.difference. In Kosovo s the US and UK took the lead and did nothing,
:14:44. > :14:49.why not in Syria? Because the preference is to do it through the
:14:49. > :14:54.UN. If it is not working, that is the point. Is there a point which
:14:54. > :14:57.the UK would say to the US, maybe we should do something? I said
:14:57. > :15:01.clearly, if diplomacy fails we cannot get a resolution, and the
:15:01. > :15:04.situation is still more bleak, and more desperate for the future, well
:15:04. > :15:11.you can't rule anything out. But the situation will be bleak indeed
:15:11. > :15:17.unless we can get a resolution. the point was raised about these
:15:17. > :15:20.chemical weapons, and the horrendous prospect they could be
:15:20. > :15:24.used against civilians in heavily built-up areas, that seems
:15:24. > :15:26.extraordinary, isn't it? It is extraordinary, we know the regime
:15:26. > :15:31.possesses them. There are clear warnings, that sort of action would
:15:31. > :15:33.be a game-changer. The Syrian regime must know there must be no
:15:33. > :15:42.possibility of using any chemical weapons.
:15:42. > :15:46.Thank you. As we have seen with flair, once a relatively young
:15:46. > :15:50.world -- Tony Blair, once a relatively young leader leaves
:15:50. > :15:55.office, there are opportunities to do things in power which seemed
:15:55. > :16:00.difficult or impossible. So it is with Bill Clinton, who has devoted
:16:00. > :16:05.a considerable amount of time to charitable causes in Africa. He
:16:05. > :16:13.gives an exclufive Newsnight interview on -- exclusive Newsnight
:16:13. > :16:20.interview, on Syria, Africa, and the presidential ideas of his wife.
:16:20. > :16:26.First, as Presidents and ex- Presidents, Bill Clinton and Nelson
:16:26. > :16:30.Mandela have developed a close relationship. The two meeting on
:16:30. > :16:35.President Clinton Bill Clinton's regular visits to South Africa. And
:16:35. > :16:40.yesterday on the eve of Nelson Mandela's 94th birth day. Africa
:16:40. > :16:43.has been the focus of Mr Clinton's work since leaving office in 2001.
:16:43. > :16:50.Fishly the fight gioints HIV, AIDS -- particularly the fight against
:16:50. > :16:56.HIV and AIDS. He visited a clintic in Mozambique, partly funded by his
:16:56. > :17:02.organisation, it offers one of the earliest infant detection, it gives
:17:02. > :17:08.HIV results in less than an hour. want you to help us totally
:17:08. > :17:13.eliminate the transmission of HIV. Clinton's health access initiative,
:17:13. > :17:17.which works across the continent, has reduced the cost of drugs by up
:17:17. > :17:20.to 90%. The Clinton Foundation's ambitions
:17:21. > :17:28.extend beyond healthcare to climate change and removing barriers to
:17:28. > :17:32.economic development. Mr Clinton cut the ribbon on a new library on
:17:32. > :17:37.this South African village, Nelson Mandela's ancestoral village. Today
:17:37. > :17:42.on his birthday, it was not the former US President who was the
:17:42. > :17:48.star of the show. You have just met Nelson Mandela and he's celebrating
:17:48. > :17:52.his 94th birthday. We don't see him very often in public, how is his
:17:52. > :17:55.health? Seemed quite healthy to me. He has gained some weight, and he
:17:55. > :17:59.looked stronger, his colour was better than it was two years ago
:17:59. > :18:04.when I came for the World Cup. I felt good about that. He's 94, he
:18:04. > :18:08.doesn't hear as well as he used to, he doesn't see as well as he used
:18:08. > :18:14.to see. He doesn't move as much as he used to move. But I had a nice
:18:14. > :18:18.visit with him. I think he's very happy in his native village. I
:18:18. > :18:23.think being there, with his wife, having more time to himself, it
:18:23. > :18:29.means great deal to him. But he did say how moved he was by the way his
:18:29. > :18:32.birthday is being celebrated today in South Africa, with the 67
:18:33. > :18:35.minutes of service by every citizen across the country. And I told him
:18:35. > :18:39.that it was being celebrated all over the world. There are
:18:39. > :18:43.celebrations in the UK, and the US, and elsewhere.
:18:43. > :18:47.Now, you and Tony Blair, have been devoting a lot of time to Africa.
:18:47. > :18:52.Is it easier to do this as an ex- leader, because when you are in
:18:52. > :18:57.office, frankly there are no votes in Africa? I actually spent an
:18:57. > :19:02.enormous amount of time in Africa as President. We adapted the
:19:02. > :19:06.African growth and opportunity act. We had lots of efforts to bring
:19:06. > :19:10.Africa into American decision- making. I took the longest trip on
:19:10. > :19:14.the continent any President had ever taken. But what is easier when
:19:14. > :19:19.you get out, is you don't have to worry about logistics so much. If
:19:19. > :19:24.you are working, as iefpl, on economic development, on ago -- as
:19:25. > :19:28.I am, on economic development, an agricultural development, on AIDS,
:19:28. > :19:31.Malaria, on climate change, you can go to the sites and get into the
:19:31. > :19:35.details of what you are doing. That is fun for me, I like doing that. I
:19:35. > :19:38.didn't have the opportunity to do that when I was President, and I
:19:38. > :19:45.like this. How much of the problems in Africa that you encounter are
:19:45. > :19:48.man made, that they are rooted in bad governance in Sudan, or Mali,
:19:48. > :19:51.or Zimbabwe. That is very frustrating, because sometimes you
:19:51. > :19:57.have to turn a blind eye to what people are up to, because you have
:19:57. > :20:01.to work for the Governments? places where the Government is bad,
:20:01. > :20:06.and/or corrupt, we still provide AIDS medicine, at the world's
:20:06. > :20:11.lowest prices. If they need that. And technology.
:20:11. > :20:17.Sometimes we train personnel, but by and large we only work on an on
:20:17. > :20:21.going basis in places where the Government asks us. We do have
:20:21. > :20:24.where we operate a strict no corruption pledge, governing our
:20:24. > :20:28.own activities. One of the things I hope to do, when I started this
:20:28. > :20:32.effort, not just in Africa but throughout the world, is to build
:20:32. > :20:36.the capacity of Governments to function well, particularly in the
:20:36. > :20:43.healthcare area. I find as capacity goes up, corruption tends to go
:20:43. > :20:45.down. The HIV prevention drug, Truvada, has now been approved in
:20:45. > :20:51.the United States. Are we at a breakthrough point in the
:20:51. > :20:55.prevention of HIV, with profound implications for Africa? I hope so.
:20:55. > :20:59.But I still believe, because Truvada is a new drug, because it
:20:59. > :21:05.will be more mostly, I think there are two things we have to do. First
:21:05. > :21:11.of all, in the developing world, we have to continue to work on more
:21:11. > :21:16.cost-effective strategies. We know, for example, that male circumcision
:21:16. > :21:20.reduces the likelihood of infections of males by 60%. It is a
:21:20. > :21:22.one-time operation that will be less expensive than a lifetime
:21:22. > :21:26.regime of Truvada. The other thing is, in the developed countries,
:21:26. > :21:31.even in the United States, we have some discreet populations where the
:21:31. > :21:38.infection rate is going up again. And we don't want to take a
:21:38. > :21:41.relatively expensive response, and, in the process, perhaps discourage
:21:42. > :21:45.people from using the preventive measures that have already begun to
:21:45. > :21:51.lose their grip in places where people don't worry about infections
:21:51. > :21:56.any more. I think it is a very, very important timing. If we can
:21:56. > :22:00.keep working to make the medicine more affordable, get the volumes up.
:22:00. > :22:04.It can make a huge difference. The number is staggering, they say the
:22:04. > :22:08.findings of research are that it could reduce the likelihood of new
:22:08. > :22:12.infections by 75%. But we still have to figure out how to pay for
:22:12. > :22:16.it, how to distribute it, and how to avoid having people think they
:22:16. > :22:21.don't need to take preventive measures any more, that are more
:22:21. > :22:25.basic, and less expensive. Can we turn to wider world, when you were
:22:26. > :22:29.President, it was possible to lead the intervention in Yugoslavia, now
:22:29. > :22:33.after Afghanistan and Iraq, do you think people back home don't want
:22:33. > :22:37.to intervene, not just in Africa, but also in place like Syria, for
:22:37. > :22:39.example, where we see a humanitarian crisis but where
:22:39. > :22:47.intervention is extremely difficult? I think the
:22:47. > :22:53.circumstances are different. We had a very long involvement in two war,
:22:53. > :22:59.simultaneously, that was highly costly in lives, in injuries, and
:22:59. > :23:03.in national treasure sure. We also have, in Syria, a difficult
:23:03. > :23:09.situation for two reasons, first of all, it has one of the largest
:23:09. > :23:16.militaries in the world. It has massive air defence systems, which
:23:16. > :23:21.are complicating any efforts to have a no-fly zone. Frankly it's a
:23:21. > :23:26.problematic thing because of the uncertainty about what happens. But
:23:26. > :23:34.I think the United States, and the European allies, in continuing to
:23:34. > :23:42.press the Russians and the Chinese to drop their efforts against more
:23:42. > :23:47.aggressive action are doing the right thing. There is some headway
:23:47. > :23:52.being made by the rebel fighters, and that is important. It is a
:23:52. > :23:55.difficult thing, I sympathise with the leaders, because no-one likes
:23:55. > :23:59.seeing the Syrian Government kill all these people. But we don't want
:23:59. > :24:03.to bring in the international community in a way that would lead,
:24:03. > :24:11.let as say, to the bombing of air defence systems that would kill a
:24:11. > :24:15.lot more citizens. We have seen all over that the internally generated
:24:15. > :24:20.efforts of regime change, even if they are supported by those of us
:24:20. > :24:25.on the outside, are more likely to be lasting and have a positive
:24:25. > :24:31.impact. I'm quite hopeful about the Libyan elections, and the fact that
:24:31. > :24:35.they may have an exclusive society that recognising democracy is not
:24:35. > :24:38.only winning an election, but it is minority rights and protecting all
:24:38. > :24:42.sectors within the community. have been talking about the rich
:24:42. > :24:49.world helping the poor, turning to your own election, are the
:24:49. > :24:53.interests of the rich and poor very different, at least as phrased by
:24:53. > :24:56.President Obama and Mitt Romney? Battle lines have been drawn,
:24:56. > :25:01.because I believe, the Republican Party and the Congress, and the
:25:01. > :25:06.nominee for President, say the most important thing is to have further
:25:06. > :25:10.tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans, even if it increases the
:25:10. > :25:14.debt, and weaker regulations, which is what caused the financial
:25:14. > :25:19.meltdown in America, or at least kept it from being stopped in the
:25:19. > :25:24.bud. I think that's highlighting these class differences. As you
:25:24. > :25:29.know Governor Romney's pom say his role as a successful businessman is
:25:30. > :25:34.exactly the kind -- means he's exactly the kind of person to lead
:25:34. > :25:39.the American people, but there is the other point of view that his
:25:39. > :25:43.failure to produce tax returns and all that sort of thing would not
:25:43. > :25:52.help him, what are your thoughts? I'm supporting President Obama, you
:25:52. > :25:56.know my thoughts. I think everybody about a person's record is relevant
:25:56. > :26:00.to service as President. What is the job of the next President? That
:26:00. > :26:06.is to accelerate the recoverry, get us back to full employment, get
:26:06. > :26:10.income growth going in America again. To fully implement the
:26:10. > :26:14.healthcare laws so we bring our cost down in line with our
:26:14. > :26:17.competitor, as well as increased coverage. To create a new energy
:26:17. > :26:22.economy that will generate millions of jobs. I think if you lock at
:26:22. > :26:27.their positions on the issues, and the actions they have taken
:26:27. > :26:30.previously, President Obama's much more likely to produce those
:26:30. > :26:36.results than Governor Romney is. I think that should be the focus. Who
:26:36. > :26:40.is more likely to bring us back to full employment and prosperity. And
:26:40. > :26:43.in general, do you believe we have to grow together, and the
:26:43. > :26:47.Government has a role to play in that, or should we weaken
:26:47. > :26:51.Government and pretend it is the enemy, and say you are on your own.
:26:51. > :26:55.The latter is the philosophy of the modern Republican Party, the former
:26:55. > :26:59.is the fill lost fee of President Obama and the people who support
:26:59. > :27:03.him, and -- philosophy of President Obama and the people who support
:27:03. > :27:08.him. Looking back at your time in office, have you any regrets about
:27:08. > :27:12.the big banks getting people too close to people in the Government,
:27:12. > :27:16.-- getting too close to people in the Government, is there anything
:27:16. > :27:21.you would have liked to do before the problems started? I wish I had
:27:21. > :27:26.raised more public outcry about the rising problems of derivatives.
:27:27. > :27:31.When I left office it was $100 trillion market around the world,
:27:31. > :27:36.when it collapsed it was $700 trillion. I regret I didn't do more
:27:36. > :27:40.to at least try to put that issue front and centre. It might have at
:27:40. > :27:45.least caused more cautionary behaviour on the part of the people
:27:45. > :27:51.engaged in that. As to whether the banks in themselves in America have
:27:51. > :27:58.grown too large, too big to fail, I still don't have an opinion on that.
:27:58. > :28:01.I think maybe I just don't know enough. It seems to me if you have
:28:01. > :28:07.appropriate oversight of both financial and commercial and
:28:07. > :28:11.investment banking, and you require capital reserves, sufficient to
:28:11. > :28:16.cover risks, then you are better off. If you look at Canada, they
:28:16. > :28:20.didn't have financial collapse, and they had unified investment banks,
:28:20. > :28:24.commercial banks under one roof. Same thing is true in Germany. If
:28:24. > :28:30.you look at what happened in the UK and Ireland, with the housing
:28:31. > :28:34.bubble, it was just an old fashioned case of too little
:28:34. > :28:39.oversight. There was not enough capital reserves for risks taken. I
:28:39. > :28:43.think that was the primary cause of it. But I do wish I had raised more
:28:44. > :28:47.hell about the derivatives. A final thought. As you know, the election
:28:47. > :28:52.of the first African-American President leaves people wondering
:28:52. > :28:55.when the United States will have its first woman President. I'm
:28:55. > :29:00.wondering if there is enough room for another Clinton in the White
:29:00. > :29:06.House, and if you are open to the idea of Hillary running in 2016?
:29:06. > :29:11.She says she intends to retire from public life and work with me in our
:29:11. > :29:16.own Governmental organisations. I'm open to her doing whatever she
:29:16. > :29:19.wants to do. I think she's the ablist person I have ever known and
:29:19. > :29:23.worked with, you could say my opinion is biased and it is. If you
:29:23. > :29:28.look at the support she has received from the American people,
:29:28. > :29:31.they feel that way too. That's a long way away. We are not kids any
:29:31. > :29:35.more. There are a lot of people who want to be President, and a lot of
:29:35. > :29:39.things that can happen between now and then. So I think you have to
:29:39. > :29:41.take her at her word, and let's see what happens. I'm more worried
:29:41. > :29:46.about trying to re-elect President Obama right now.
:29:46. > :29:50.Thank you very much. Son-in-law good news, the British
:29:50. > :29:54.economy, for all its woes, is creating jobs. The bad news is,
:29:54. > :29:59.while unemployment is falling, the long-term unemployed remain a big
:29:59. > :30:06.problem. Some good news, the British economy for all its wos is
:30:06. > :30:09.creating job. The bad news is the long-term unemployed are the big
:30:09. > :30:12.problem. We seem to have the unemployment rate cut in the
:30:12. > :30:17.economy, but the economy is not doing well. The unemployment rate
:30:17. > :30:21.is still high, but not getting higher as some people expected a
:30:21. > :30:26.year ago. What it is pointing towards is there are still jobs
:30:26. > :30:33.being created out there, the question is what sort of jobs, are
:30:33. > :30:37.they particularly high-calibre. This campaign poster once told a
:30:37. > :30:43.thousand political words. An economy in crisis, begets an
:30:43. > :30:49.employment crisis. But now, that simple political
:30:49. > :30:52.dynamic may be just as much historical art fact, as Saatchi &
:30:52. > :30:56.Saatchi's 70s' poster. Today's Britain's poor economy is not
:30:56. > :30:59.matched by snaking unemployment figures.
:30:59. > :31:04.Figures out today suggest that those Britain is in recession, and
:31:04. > :31:08.though unemployment is at its highest level in 18 years, it isn't
:31:08. > :31:13.getting any worse. For the fourth month running, the statistics
:31:13. > :31:19.included reasons to be cheerful. The unemployment rate is 8.1%, down
:31:19. > :31:23.on the previous quarter. The total number of those jobless is down to
:31:23. > :31:26.65 throw though. The lowest level for almost a year. Those in
:31:27. > :31:32.employment have increased by 181 though though their highest level
:31:32. > :31:36.for four years. -- 181,000, their highest level for
:31:36. > :31:41.four years. This is a good set of figures for the labour market. If
:31:41. > :31:49.you went back four years and asked anybody what you would have
:31:49. > :31:56.expected to happen, given the proi longed period of low -- prolong
:31:56. > :31:59.period of low growth, we wouldn't have expected this. It reflects the
:31:59. > :32:04.resilience of the British labour market during this recession. It
:32:04. > :32:08.reflects very well on how employees and companies have behaved. We have
:32:08. > :32:12.seen short time working and lower real wage increases than you might
:32:12. > :32:15.have expected. That has saved jobs. While it is difficult for the
:32:15. > :32:19.individuals involved, having to accept part-time work, or lower pay,
:32:19. > :32:27.it is still a lot better than the alternative, which would have been
:32:27. > :32:30.much longer dole queues. British workers appear to have struck an
:32:30. > :32:35.unspoken pact, with firms, learning lessons from the Japanese of short
:32:35. > :32:40.time, staying on in a job with diminished hours, because it is
:32:40. > :32:44.better than the alternative. In a recession there is a paradox of
:32:44. > :32:49.productivity, if you carry on you need less workers, and they don't
:32:49. > :32:52.get jobs, we found that in the United States. In contrast, in
:32:52. > :32:57.Germany they are hoarding workers, they don't want to let them go,
:32:57. > :33:07.they are good people. Productivity goes down, but we hope if we keep
:33:07. > :33:13.
:33:13. > :33:19.the skilled workers productivity The reasons for the lack of drop in
:33:19. > :33:24.figures could be the short time. Some of the people in that famous
:33:24. > :33:28.political poster were Photoshopped in, and today's iconic figures are
:33:28. > :33:31.also not quite what they seem. We have had an increase in self-
:33:31. > :33:35.employment and part-time workers, but neither of those things are
:33:35. > :33:39.unalloy good. Self-employed workers may have work, but is it as much as
:33:39. > :33:42.they want. Are they getting quite the number of commissions they need.
:33:42. > :33:47.Part-timers, most of them want to work more. Britain is working, it
:33:47. > :33:52.is just working more flexibly, possibly more insecurely.
:33:52. > :34:00.The number of self-employed people, both full and part-time, went up by
:34:00. > :34:06.32,000, or 0.8% from the previous quarter T rose from 66,000 from the
:34:06. > :34:11.same period a year before. -- it rose from 166,000 from the same
:34:11. > :34:15.period a year before. It in some ways reflects flexibility, which in
:34:15. > :34:19.times of recession is a good thing for the economy and individuals as
:34:19. > :34:23.a whole. The question is what will happen when we come out of
:34:24. > :34:26.recession. Will we see that type of employment that may be negative for
:34:27. > :34:30.some individuals, being entrenched, or will companies and workers find
:34:30. > :34:37.ways of making it work for them during the upturn as well. It is
:34:37. > :34:42.too early to tell. Too early to tell on whether today's benign
:34:42. > :34:46.trends really are benign. But there are those who need a little time to
:34:46. > :34:54.digest. Long-term unemployment uncrease today, those out of work
:34:54. > :34:57.for more than two years rose today. The worst figures since 1997. Those
:34:57. > :35:01.claiming job sooker's allowance rose.
:35:01. > :35:06.Including more -- jobseeker's allowance rose. Both thought to
:35:07. > :35:11.have been the result of the tightening of the benefits' regime.
:35:11. > :35:14.The long-term picture is more bleak. A lot of people are going for self-
:35:14. > :35:19.employment, they don't show up in the statistics, but income may have
:35:19. > :35:25.dropped from being employed. It is a much tougher and rougher world
:35:25. > :35:30.than it seems. The overall level of employment is much higher than down
:35:30. > :35:35.here. The second thing is companies are genuinely holding on to skilled
:35:35. > :35:41.employees, but there is a great gap between those who have kills, and
:35:41. > :35:46.those who are seeingsly unskilled. Companies are increasing
:35:46. > :35:54.apprenticeship -- seemingly unskilled. Companies are increasing
:35:54. > :35:57.apprenticeships. Squint at the headlines and Britains are making
:35:57. > :36:02.decisions they wouldn't have, they are clinging on to job, even if the
:36:02. > :36:05.jobs are shrunken. The unemployment rate is bucking the rules of
:36:05. > :36:09.previous recessions. Have you ever downloaded music
:36:09. > :36:13.illegally? If you have done, you are not alone in joining in the
:36:13. > :36:18.kind of piracy that has the industry really concerned. BPI, the
:36:18. > :36:22.British music trade body, has requested the deletion of more
:36:23. > :36:31.illegal music files in the six months of this year than the whole
:36:31. > :36:36.of 201. Now it is turning its anger on Google for listing piracy sites.
:36:36. > :36:41.That has put Google at the heart of a very political debate.
:36:41. > :36:45.It might seem like an industry in rude good health. But UK music
:36:45. > :36:49.feels it is under siege. Album sales are down 20% over five years,
:36:49. > :36:56.and the Internet awash with free music, and labels are demanding
:36:56. > :37:06.that the Government does more to help them take on web pirates.
:37:06. > :37:08.
:37:08. > :37:13.Their principle tart, going going theyle -- Google, they accuse it of
:37:13. > :37:18.helping pirates. If you go to Google and put in
:37:18. > :37:22.Adele and mp3, one of the options you get offered is a free download,
:37:22. > :37:28.that is what many people come here looking for. Let's ignore this and
:37:28. > :37:32.just search for Adele mp3, look through the first three pages of
:37:32. > :37:40.results, you will struggle to find anything that appears to be a
:37:40. > :37:47.legitimate site offering access to Adele's music.
:37:47. > :37:53.With huge sales, Adele doesn't need to worry, what about Styly Cee and
:37:53. > :37:57.Capo this UK hip hop artist is among several in the catalogue of a
:37:57. > :38:05.one-man record label. Son Records says illegal downloads are killing
:38:05. > :38:11.its business. In the last few years you have seen
:38:11. > :38:15.the drop in sales, in previous years it is healthy and in latter
:38:15. > :38:23.years it is chipped away. I look on-line I find a lot of my stuff
:38:23. > :38:26.lying about for free. It seems it is getting a worse problem.
:38:26. > :38:33.So, with one Styly Cee album, Alastair Nicholson tried a new
:38:33. > :38:39.approach. First he put it out on vinyl only, without offering
:38:39. > :38:43.digital copies for reviewers, that went well, then he released it for
:38:43. > :38:48.paid download, the next morning he checked Google. I searched for the
:38:48. > :38:52.artist name and title, it was page after page, after page, of file
:38:52. > :38:56.shares and free downloads. I didn't get to anything legitimate until, I
:38:56. > :39:02.can't remember, it was either the Beth bottom of the fifth page or
:39:02. > :39:07.sixth page. What impact did that -- It was either at the bottom of the
:39:07. > :39:11.fifth page or the sixth page. impact did that have on the album?
:39:11. > :39:17.It pretty much killed it. The trade body that hands out the annual Brit
:39:17. > :39:25.Awards, has been stepping up the pressure on Google, demanding it
:39:25. > :39:29.pushing piracy sites lower down its search results. Once we have told
:39:29. > :39:32.Google 100,000 times that a particular site is illegal, it
:39:32. > :39:37.shouldn't be coming above iTunes and Spotify in the search results.
:39:37. > :39:41.They say they are doing everything they can to help you, but they
:39:41. > :39:45.can't mess around with the algorithm? They are in complete
:39:45. > :39:48.control of that to decide where things come in the search rankings.
:39:49. > :39:53.We are saying, once they have knowledge that a site is illegal,
:39:53. > :39:59.to give an example, a court ruled in the UK that a particular site is
:39:59. > :40:06.illegal and it should be blocked. They still list that site above
:40:06. > :40:09.iTunes and Amazon, in search sites, if you search "download music".
:40:09. > :40:16.Google knows it is in the spotlight, it has been trying to mend fences
:40:16. > :40:20.with the music industry. Some say the answer is choke off funding for
:40:20. > :40:25.pirate sites. It is not up to Google to go around the world
:40:25. > :40:28.judging what is and isn't legal. I don't think people want us to do.
:40:28. > :40:32.When people say it is their content, we remove it quickly and do two
:40:32. > :40:37.million a month. What our research shows is however much you do on
:40:37. > :40:42.filtering, blocking, what would be much more effective would be to go
:40:42. > :40:46.after the money, and remove the financial underpinnings, the
:40:46. > :40:51.triesing and payment processes on the sites -- The advertising and
:40:51. > :40:54.payment processes on the sites. music industry recently thought
:40:54. > :40:59.Jeremy Hunt was on their site, and he was briefing that the
:40:59. > :41:02.communications bill would put Google on notice to act. Then came
:41:02. > :41:07.his difficulties at the Leveson Inquiry, after which the bill of
:41:07. > :41:13.put on the back burner, now the music industry fears that going
:41:13. > :41:21.google executives appear to have great access to key figures at --
:41:21. > :41:23.Google executives appear to have great access to key figures at
:41:23. > :41:31.Downing Street? Google have enormous influence with Government
:41:31. > :41:35.and are an impressive company. They spend an enormous amount on
:41:35. > :41:40.lobbying, we think the creative industries should be listened to as
:41:40. > :41:46.well. Google would deny the undue influence, and the BPI has devoted
:41:46. > :41:51.plenty of resources to lobbying over the years.
:41:51. > :41:57.The trouble is, the music industry doesn't speak with one voice. In
:41:57. > :42:02.fact, even within bands you will find different views.
:42:02. > :42:07.One last sound check for The Charlatans before a gig. The band
:42:08. > :42:11.made its first album in 1990, but still isn't sure how it feels about
:42:11. > :42:18.its music being free on pirate sites.
:42:18. > :42:24.I should feel terrible, right. But, I can't really lie and say that I
:42:24. > :42:28.don't really feel that bad about it. At the end of the day, I speak from
:42:28. > :42:33.a musician's point of view, the fundamental reason is for people to
:42:33. > :42:36.listen to your music. But, put it to them that their
:42:36. > :42:39.industry believes the likes of Google and the advertisers are
:42:39. > :42:44.making money from pirate sites, and you get a different view. I think
:42:44. > :42:47.they are not going to make, and they are not showing respect, it is
:42:47. > :42:55.wrong. Something should be done about it. That is morally wrong,
:42:55. > :42:58.isn't it. For Google, the politics of all are
:42:58. > :43:02.tricky, it wanted to be seen as a champion of free expression, but it
:43:02. > :43:09.knows the Government wants it to play nicely with the music industry.
:43:09. > :43:17.Over the years, Google really has had a reputation of being hippy-
:43:17. > :43:21.dippy, sandal-wearing, everything- on-the-internet-is-free, seen to
:43:21. > :43:25.support tacitly the pirate case, are you doing something about that?
:43:25. > :43:27.I'm happy to say Google doesn't support piracy and we support
:43:27. > :43:33.freedom of expression. I don't think those things are in conflict
:43:33. > :43:37.with each other. You do think that Google is in the anti-piracy camp?
:43:37. > :43:42.You can be appropriate in expression and piracy. I think that
:43:43. > :43:47.is true of the music industry and the technical industry as a whole,
:43:47. > :43:52.and it is true of the whole industry. The BPI has said that
:43:52. > :43:58.advertisers and the cred did cart firms are on side with -- credit
:43:58. > :44:03.card firms are on side with tackling piracy, but Google remains
:44:03. > :44:08.outside. If there are a number of people distributing out there, that
:44:08. > :44:12.is not Google's fault, I'm not laying it on the door. There is
:44:12. > :44:17.this, how would I characterise it, lack of moral viewpoint about is
:44:17. > :44:23.that activity. -- About that activity. And, after
:44:23. > :44:29.more than a decade, Alastair says he's now released his last record.
:44:29. > :44:34.Unless you are going to become, you know, the corporate mascot for God
:44:34. > :44:42.knows who, Barclaycard, Weetabix, you name it, whatever,y see that
:44:42. > :44:48.there is that many case just to make a business selling music.
:44:48. > :44:52.UK music may be widely admired, but its �1800 million annual income is
:44:52. > :44:56.in decline. And, in taking on Google, which makes around three-
:44:56. > :45:06.times that, just in the UK, the record industry may find it is on
:45:06. > :45:24.
:45:24. > :45:31.the wrong side of history. A similar picture on the Guardian,
:45:31. > :45:35.three key allies killed in Damascus, and there are rumours the
:45:35. > :45:40.President's wife has fled Syria. The Independent has similar
:45:40. > :45:44.pictures. A story about the UK's nuclear
:45:44. > :45:49.deterrent may be mothballed to save millions.
:45:49. > :45:57.The HIV story I was exploring with President Clinton, a claim that HIV
:45:57. > :46:07.can be cured. The FT has four banks targeting in
:46:07. > :46:09.
:46:09. > :46:13.the Euribor issues. We leave news that Bollywood's first superstar
:46:13. > :46:23.died today. He made his name as the romantic lead in a string of films,
:46:23. > :47:02.
:47:02. > :47:05.Hello, good evening, drying up, by morning light and patchy rain
:47:05. > :47:09.across England and North Wales. It breaks up into showers, there will
:47:09. > :47:14.be quite a few showers in the south-east. Showers elsewhere much
:47:14. > :47:17.fewer, more scattered a dryer day across northern England. Lighter
:47:17. > :47:20.showers across the Midlands and East Anglia. It is really the
:47:20. > :47:25.south-east of England that will see most of the showers in the
:47:25. > :47:31.afternoon, some heavy and possibly thundery, likely to affect the
:47:31. > :47:34.cricket at the offal, the showers fading away in -- at the Oval, the
:47:34. > :47:37.showers fading away and the winds not as strong. A few showers
:47:37. > :47:41.continuing in the north of the country and for Northern Ireland
:47:41. > :47:44.the odd light shower through the day. Disappointing temperatures,
:47:44. > :47:47.despite the fact that here and Scotland will be dryer than it has
:47:47. > :47:53.been today. With fewer, lighter showers, temperatures aren't really
:47:53. > :47:57.rising very much, we still have this gentle north-to-north-westerly
:47:57. > :48:02.drift. Lighter winds but not warmer. The same can be said for Friday,
:48:03. > :48:08.more showers across the northern half of the UK. Very few showers