:00:12. > :00:16.Tonight, thousands of refugees are now flooding out of Syria, after a
:00:16. > :00:21.week of intense fighting. Government forces are battling to
:00:21. > :00:25.retake key areas of the capital Damascus. We're on the border.
:00:25. > :00:28.Here at Syria's main border crossing with Lebanon, there has
:00:28. > :00:35.been a tide of Syrians, fleeing the violence that has now reached the
:00:36. > :00:38.very heart of the capital, Damascus. We will hear from an activist, and
:00:39. > :00:45.ask if the Government is helping the rebels.
:00:46. > :00:49.The dark night of America, many killed in a lone gunman attack. Can
:00:49. > :00:53.we ever understand the monstrous. We will ask a leading psychiatrist.
:00:53. > :00:58.The Chancellor and the rest of us finding out the price of milk, as
:00:58. > :01:04.farmers protest they are being ripped off by the big supermarkets.
:01:04. > :01:09.These laid ease are queuing up to supply the breakfast tables, but is
:01:09. > :01:12.it the farmers who are being milked try. Dry.
:01:12. > :01:15.Thousands more refugees are streaming across the border between
:01:15. > :01:19.Syria and neighbouring countries, it follows the bomb blast on
:01:19. > :01:23.Wednesday, in which leaders of the regime's security apparatus were
:01:23. > :01:27.targeted. Reports of heavy fighting in the capital, Damascus. The
:01:27. > :01:32.United Nations, has, at last, reached some kind of agreement on
:01:32. > :01:37.renewing its mission in the country for a month. While the rebel Free
:01:37. > :01:40.Syrian Army claims the regime is now in its last days. We start in
:01:40. > :01:45.Lebanon and report from the Syrian border.
:01:45. > :01:49.On every border, at every crossing, Syrians are fleeing their country,
:01:49. > :01:53.escaping the growing violence and uncertainty. At this main crossing
:01:53. > :01:59.into Lebanon, everyone is carefully checked. Many of the vehicles are
:01:59. > :02:03.family cars, full of children, full of their fears. The border guards
:02:03. > :02:07.here tell us 18,000 crossed over in the past 48 hours. Some of the
:02:07. > :02:11.Syrians are wealthy enough to stay in hotels, some are lucky enough to
:02:11. > :02:16.have family members in Lebanon. But others don't know where they will
:02:16. > :02:19.stay, or for how long. That's a risk for the Lebanese, who
:02:19. > :02:26.have their own very delicate sectarian and ethnic balance to
:02:26. > :02:30.worry about. All of Syria's neighbours worry
:02:30. > :02:34.tensions will also cross borders, but Lebanon is especially risky, it
:02:34. > :02:38.has already lived through its own civil war. Lebanon's politicians
:02:38. > :02:44.and people take different sides in Syria's deepening conflict.
:02:44. > :02:48.It's now a war that's reach the very heart of Damascus. Today,
:02:48. > :02:52.after six days of the heaviest clashes in 16 months, Syrian forces
:02:52. > :02:55.fought their way back into central neighbourhoods like Midan, saying
:02:56. > :03:03.it was cleansed of terrorists. The rebels say it was only a tactical
:03:04. > :03:08.retreat, in what they call the final battle for Damascus.
:03:09. > :03:13.But the fight is far from over. Battles are still raging in many
:03:14. > :03:21.parts of the capital. Syrian state TV showed pictures of
:03:21. > :03:25.young men, they described as part of the called "Free Army", sprawled
:03:25. > :03:30.across a road in another Damascus neighbourhood. Today the regime
:03:30. > :03:35.buried three members of President Assad's inner circle, they were
:03:35. > :03:38.killed on Wednesday, on stunning attack on a highly-guarded security
:03:38. > :03:46.meeting. It was also a devastating blow to President Assad's authority,
:03:46. > :03:56.in an aura of instability. Even his main ally, Russia, suggested the
:03:56. > :03:56.
:03:56. > :04:00.President would be willing to step down, so long as it was in order.
:04:00. > :04:03.TRANSLATION: There was a meeting in June, a final communique was for
:04:03. > :04:07.the transition, the final communique was accepted by Bashar
:04:07. > :04:11.Al-Assad, he appointed his representative to conduct the
:04:11. > :04:17.negotiations with the opposition on that transition. In other words, he
:04:17. > :04:20.agrees to go, but in a civilised manner.
:04:20. > :04:24.State TV quickly denied the President was going anywhere, any
:04:24. > :04:29.time soon. But rumours keep squirreling about
:04:29. > :04:33.whether he's -- swirling about whether he's still in Damascus. If
:04:33. > :04:37.there ever was a peace plan, it now seems irrelevant. In New York the
:04:37. > :04:40.UN renewed the mandate of its monitoring mission for another
:04:40. > :04:44.month. But it is too dangerous to do much monitoring now, and the
:04:44. > :04:50.main players in this crisis are stuck in a war of words over what
:04:50. > :04:55.to do next. Diplomacy has been lagging behind developments on the
:04:55. > :04:59.ground. But it's not too late for diplomacy to catch up if the
:04:59. > :05:04.Russians come on board, and they do what they did with Milosevic, which
:05:04. > :05:09.is come and tell him the game is up, and get him out of there. Which
:05:09. > :05:15.needs a lot of international support, possibly military
:05:15. > :05:21.assistance also, to keep, to maintain order, and a co-ordinated
:05:22. > :05:24.effort with the regional powers. This is a war with winners and
:05:24. > :05:28.losers, in Syria and all of its neighbours.
:05:28. > :05:33.The biggest losers are the Syrians now fleeing their country, and
:05:33. > :05:40.those still trapped inside. Not knowing when and how this war
:05:40. > :05:43.will end. Shortly before we came on air I spoke with Lis on the border.
:05:43. > :05:50.Loot of people here have been talking about this week as if it
:05:50. > :05:56.were a turning point s is that how it is being seen where you are?
:05:56. > :06:00.These words "turning point" and "tipping point" often get used in
:06:00. > :06:04.protracted conflicts like this. But for anyone who has followed the 16-
:06:04. > :06:06.month uprising against Assad's rule, there is no question that this past
:06:06. > :06:10.week has been absolutely a turning point. We have seen the clashes
:06:10. > :06:14.that have been taking place in towns and villages across the
:06:14. > :06:18.country, finally reaching the heart, the very heart of Damascus, and the
:06:18. > :06:21.very heart of President Assad's inner circle. Every time I have
:06:21. > :06:26.been to Damascus, it was largely a bubble, unaffected by the tensions
:06:26. > :06:30.and the violence. But it has been growing steadily more unstable. And
:06:30. > :06:33.now, the people, for example, the people we have been talking to here
:06:33. > :06:37.today, who have been fleeing that violence, tell us that they simply
:06:37. > :06:40.were too scared to stay on. I spoke to children who said they heard
:06:40. > :06:44.loud explosions by night and day, of the helicopter gunship that is
:06:44. > :06:47.the Government is again using for the first time against rebel forces
:06:47. > :06:51.who are in central neighbourhoods of Damascus. They hear the
:06:51. > :06:55.explosions and the shooting. One woman said she felt like a prisoner
:06:55. > :07:00.in her own home, they didn't know who to trust. Whether the Free
:07:00. > :07:05.Syrian Army or the Government. diplomacy does indeed grind on, but
:07:05. > :07:11.is it your instinct that this is going to be settled by the gun?
:07:11. > :07:16.world has been watching in horror, as Syria is engulfed by more and
:07:16. > :07:20.more violence, more deadly violence, grotesque torture, horrific scenes
:07:20. > :07:25.over the past 16 months. It has always been said there is only one
:07:25. > :07:28.peace plan, the peace plan of Kofi Annan. That he is the envoy, and
:07:28. > :07:33.no-one dared to say that the peace plan wasn't working, because the
:07:33. > :07:37.reality is there is no other plan. If that fails, what is it? It's a
:07:37. > :07:40.war. And quite frankly, that is what it is now. It is a war. It is
:07:40. > :07:44.not just a war on the ground, it has turned into an increasing war
:07:44. > :07:49.of words between all the main players in this crisis, who haven't
:07:49. > :07:55.been able to agree on what they can do to resolve it.
:07:55. > :08:00.I'm joined now in the studio by the Turkish ambassador to the UK, and
:08:00. > :08:05.from Beirut by Dr Hassan Turkomani from the Syrian opposition group,
:08:05. > :08:09.Building the Syrian State. How worried is turkey that we are not
:08:09. > :08:12.just seeing this imploding but exploding, and all the neighbouring
:08:12. > :08:17.countries, including your own, will suffer? All the signs indicate
:08:17. > :08:20.there is a growing humanitarian situation in the country, and it is
:08:20. > :08:25.now affecting the bordering countries, particularly Lebanon and
:08:25. > :08:30.turkey. In the last two weeks, I think we had more than 15,000
:08:30. > :08:33.refugees, and the number of refugees in Turkey is now over 43
:08:33. > :08:38.though though we have eight camps and they are not sufficient enough,
:08:38. > :08:43.so now we are building new camps to accommodate the newcomers, we are
:08:43. > :08:47.very much concerned that this refugee situation will become in
:08:47. > :08:51.the mass, that is, of course, very frightening. In what ways are you
:08:51. > :08:55.helping the free Syrian army, they are being co-ordinated out of
:08:55. > :08:59.Turkey, are you helping the weapons get through to them? We simply
:08:59. > :09:03.support the democratic rights of the Syrian people, and we want to
:09:03. > :09:06.find the solution to the problem in Syria, through peaceful means. That
:09:06. > :09:10.is the reason why we have been supporting the opposition groups,
:09:10. > :09:14.who have not chosen the violence. But the guns are getting in from
:09:14. > :09:18.somewhere, aren't they, and Turkey is the obvious candidate? Not from
:09:18. > :09:25.the Turkish borders, I can categorically reject the idea it is
:09:25. > :09:28.going through the Turkish border. You have always said you want a
:09:28. > :09:35.peaceful solution to this, have you now come to recognise this is, in
:09:35. > :09:39.effect, a fight to the death for the regime? Yes wrecks want a
:09:39. > :09:43.peaceful solution. The track we want to reach a solution should be
:09:43. > :09:48.peaceful. I don't see violence as a solution, to start W it is not
:09:48. > :09:54.going -- yes, we want a peaceful solution, the track we want to
:09:54. > :09:58.reach a solution should be peaceful. We don't want the violence to make
:09:58. > :10:02.everyone lose control of the situation, I don't think Turkey or
:10:02. > :10:07.the regime or the international community will be able to play any
:10:07. > :10:10.role if we descend to complete chaos. Isn't that, frankly, what's
:10:10. > :10:14.happening, there is a lot of guns getting in, and people within the
:10:14. > :10:18.Free Syrian Army are saying it is a fight for the future of Syria, and
:10:18. > :10:23.it will be a fight, no matter what the diplomats say? I disagree with
:10:23. > :10:28.them. They don't have the right to let us all be involved in this
:10:28. > :10:37.fight. While I do understand the people's right to defend themselves,
:10:37. > :10:40.however, using the army to overthrow the regime, and settle
:10:40. > :10:44.the problems with the regime is not the right way. We want all parties
:10:44. > :10:47.to stop fighting and a real ceasefire from everyone, and then,
:10:47. > :10:51.hopefully, kick starting a political solution. But for that to
:10:51. > :10:56.happen we need international consensus. We need Turkey to stop
:10:56. > :10:59.sending arms through the borders. It is not true what the ambassador
:10:59. > :11:04.is saying about Turkey supporting the democratic choice of the Syrian
:11:04. > :11:08.people. They interfered politically when they decided to make my choice
:11:08. > :11:11.for my representatives as a Syrian and say this is who represents me.
:11:11. > :11:15.They interfered politically through the opposition. They allowed lots
:11:15. > :11:19.of arms to go through the borders, whilst on the borders I spoke to
:11:19. > :11:23.many Syrian officials and defecting soldiers and generals, they told me
:11:23. > :11:27.how Turkey is helping in this. It is very disappointing, we want
:11:27. > :11:31.Turkey's support, but for the people, and democratic choice, and
:11:31. > :11:34.democracy doesn't come through arms. Let me put that to you, the guns
:11:34. > :11:37.are getting through Turkey, perhaps it is understandable, and it is
:11:37. > :11:40.understandable you don't want to say so, that is where they are
:11:40. > :11:44.coming from? I can simply say it is the position of the Government that
:11:44. > :11:49.we are not supporting the violent groups in Syria, who are trying to
:11:49. > :11:52.find the democratic solution to the problem. But, we have been
:11:53. > :11:57.supporting the opposition groups and we have been supporting the
:11:57. > :12:02.rights of the Syrian people, the democratic rights of the people,
:12:02. > :12:07.but only through peaceful means. We have been, that is true that we
:12:07. > :12:14.have been helping several opposition groups to get together
:12:14. > :12:20.in Turkey. To co-ordinate themselves. But not for the arms.
:12:20. > :12:24.Are you very irritated by the way Russia has acted in this?
:12:24. > :12:27.wouldn't say I'm irritated, but the international community needs to
:12:28. > :12:34.show solidarity. And unfortunately the United Nations Security Council
:12:34. > :12:37.has a big responsibility to take a decision about the the solutions of
:12:37. > :12:42.the problems. It seems that some members of the United Nations
:12:42. > :12:51.Security Council do not feel as the others do. That's the reason why we
:12:51. > :12:54.are not reaching a decision there. You're sitting in Lebanon, your
:12:54. > :12:58.thoughts are obviously with the people of Syria, but people in
:12:58. > :13:02.Lebanon too are obviously very worried. We know about the kind of
:13:02. > :13:08.fractious nature of that state. Are you worried that might spread to
:13:08. > :13:12.where you are now? People are very worried here, indeed, some people
:13:12. > :13:17.are still operating, on the day of the explosions there were still
:13:17. > :13:20.operations in Tripoli. Many people are worried in Beirut. I met people
:13:20. > :13:24.from Damascus, and they are extremely worried. I met people
:13:24. > :13:27.from the opposition who walked through the heart of Damascus today
:13:27. > :13:31.and yesterday, and said the only thing you can feel is absolute fear,
:13:31. > :13:37.where is this going? They don't know where the authority is, who is
:13:37. > :13:41.issuing the orders. If it descends into the chaos, it will spread
:13:41. > :13:46.across to Lebanon and Turkey and Iraq, the fear is regional. The
:13:46. > :13:49.heart of the fear is in Damascus, they are living in fear. We all
:13:49. > :13:54.failed Syria. The international community, the Syrian opposition,
:13:54. > :13:57.and indeed, first of all, the regime. I think we should all go
:13:57. > :14:01.back to rally around one solution. I don't understand what happened
:14:01. > :14:04.after Geneva's meeting. They all seemed to have agreed on something,
:14:04. > :14:07.and suddenly we see some of them going to the Security Council, and
:14:07. > :14:11.others talking about army the opposition again. That is not what
:14:11. > :14:16.Syria needs right now. We need to rally around one solution and push
:14:16. > :14:20.forward to it. We don't want it to become the subject of international
:14:20. > :14:24.conflict, while both the regime and other parties are reinforcing their
:14:24. > :14:27.position, while the rest of the world is fighting over Syria.
:14:27. > :14:30.Thank you very much, we are running out of time.
:14:30. > :14:37.There is something both utterly shocking and yet sadly familiar
:14:37. > :14:42.about the events late last night in Aurora, Colorado. A young man,
:14:42. > :14:48.presumably deeply troubled, arms himself and slaughters people to
:14:48. > :14:51.find one day of infamiliary. There will be the puzzlement about gun
:14:51. > :14:55.laws, but Anders Breivik proved America has no monopoly on the
:14:55. > :14:58.crime. The puzzle is, as usual, whether anything could have stopped
:14:58. > :15:02.Just after midnight last night, local time, 20 minutes after the
:15:02. > :15:06.start of one of the most anticipated movies of the summer,
:15:06. > :15:11.24-year-old James Holmes entered a cinema in Aurora, Colorado, from
:15:11. > :15:16.the back door. As the audience watched Batman, he set off two
:15:16. > :15:21.smoke bombs. Then he opened fire with an Assault Rifle, a shotgun
:15:21. > :15:26.and two pistols, killing a dozen people, wounding more than 70.
:15:26. > :15:36.suspect was dressed all in black. He was wearing a ballistic helmet,
:15:36. > :15:37.
:15:37. > :15:42.a tactical balance list kal vest, a ballistic level, and a gas mask and
:15:42. > :15:46.black tactical gloves. Holmes was arrested just outside the theatre,
:15:46. > :15:50.he had dropped out of a PhD in neuroscience at the local
:15:50. > :16:00.university. Aurora won't comment on his motive, but the New York police
:16:00. > :16:13.
:16:13. > :16:16.Holmes apartment was subsequently found to be heavily booby trapped,
:16:16. > :16:21.the injuries of some of the wounded are said to be critical. The death
:16:21. > :16:27.toll of the latest American mass shooting could well rise. I'm
:16:27. > :16:32.joined now by a leading forensic psychiatrist, and Dave Cullen, who
:16:32. > :16:36.wrote the book, Columbine, about the High School killings there.
:16:36. > :16:41.When these things happen, is there a common pattern in the kind of
:16:41. > :16:47.people who do it? Yes, there certainly is. Invariably, the
:16:47. > :16:52.people who do mass murder have got very strong anger, usually rage,
:16:53. > :16:55.and most often that is distorted through the lens of paranoia. They
:16:55. > :17:00.are blaming other people for the problems that are typically of
:17:00. > :17:06.their own making. A second trait they share is a willingness to die,
:17:06. > :17:14.and by the end of the day, 50% do die. What do you make of this
:17:14. > :17:19.thought that Mr Holmes was acting as if he were the Joker, the enemy
:17:19. > :17:25.of Batman in the movies, does that make any sense to you? It does. It
:17:25. > :17:33.seems to me an identification with the anti-hero, and, of course, this
:17:33. > :17:40.way of going about a mass murder, which I name, pseudo commando, in
:17:40. > :17:43.1985, was created originally by the Texas tower shooter, Charles
:17:43. > :17:48.Whitman, they take multiple weapons with them, they are prepared, as if
:17:48. > :17:52.it is a tactical assault. We see that in all of his behaviour.
:17:52. > :17:56.Cullen, when you heard the news, did you think, oh, it's just
:17:56. > :18:05.another Columbine, it is the same kind of person, it is the same kind
:18:05. > :18:12.of thing? No, not really. Because there are several different types,
:18:12. > :18:17.and, like Park said, there are a lot of similarities, but there are
:18:17. > :18:24.also different one. At Columbine we had two different types, Eric
:18:24. > :18:29.Harris was a clinical psychopath, and Klibel was depressed. At
:18:29. > :18:33.Virginia Tech we had Joe, deeply, mentally ill, probably out-of-touch
:18:33. > :18:37.with reality, and then we have terrorists, and those seem to be
:18:37. > :18:42.the major ties. The people of different types behave very
:18:42. > :18:48.differently, and with driven drives. I'm always curious what's driving
:18:48. > :18:51.this person, and we don't have a whole lot of clues yet. I mean, we
:18:51. > :18:55.have possibilities, but the only thing it looks like we can say for
:18:55. > :18:59.sure is he planned, and planned it in advance, but that is almost
:18:59. > :19:04.always true, and he was ruthless about it. In the way he went about
:19:04. > :19:10.it. But people from each of those different types can be ruthless. I
:19:10. > :19:16.think it is still early to know. Dietz, I was struck listening to
:19:16. > :19:20.President Obama today, talking about evil senseless violence, and
:19:20. > :19:23.Mitt Romney spiking about a sense of helplessness. Is there --
:19:23. > :19:28.speaking about a sense of helplessness, is there no policy
:19:28. > :19:32.response from the politicians that would work in these situations, or
:19:32. > :19:35.do we have to throw our hands up in the face of this kind of evil?
:19:35. > :19:39.There will not be an effective policy response, because the things
:19:39. > :19:45.that would be effective are outside the reach of Government. They have
:19:45. > :19:51.to do with who will reproduce, how parenting will be done, who will
:19:51. > :19:56.have access to weapons, who news coverage there will be of copycat
:19:56. > :20:01.crimes of this sort? I disagree some what with what Dave said. I
:20:01. > :20:08.believe all the examples he gave, except terrorists, were depressed,
:20:08. > :20:13.paranoid people, or at least angry people. And we found that Klebold
:20:13. > :20:17.and Harris, were both, when we did psychological autopsies on the
:20:17. > :20:20.Columbine killers, there is a lot of similarity between the pseudo
:20:20. > :20:24.commando mass murders, we have to recognise there are depressed,
:20:24. > :20:31.paranoid, armed people, watching this and every broadcast about
:20:31. > :20:38.these crimes, a few of whom will say, they can beat the body count.
:20:38. > :20:42.I wonder what your thoughts r we can't not cover a major news event,
:20:43. > :20:47.but some people, as Dr Dietz says, will be some how encouraged to beat
:20:47. > :20:55.it? Yes, there are, I agree with most of what he said, of the early
:20:55. > :20:59.part. That's one of those things, I think we need to be careful about
:20:59. > :21:05.how we, in the media, portray these people, and not to sensationalise
:21:05. > :21:09.it, not to make them appear heroic. But, I don't think there is any
:21:09. > :21:12.putting that lid in the world we live in now and keeping it from
:21:12. > :21:22.people, that this is happening. I think that information will be out
:21:22. > :21:22.
:21:22. > :21:27.there, and the best that we can do is treat it responsibly. You know,
:21:27. > :21:32.most of these people, as Dr Dietz said, most of them don't live
:21:32. > :21:39.through it. Most of these, even the people who are after glory, they
:21:39. > :21:43.tend to aid very ingloriously, often pathetically. Columbine was,
:21:43. > :21:48.in their own minds, what they intended was a complete disaster,
:21:48. > :21:52.not what they intended happened. They were trying to blow up the
:21:52. > :21:59.school. People die in miserable ends, in most of these cases. If we
:21:59. > :22:04.could communicate the truth of that, we are not going to stop all the
:22:04. > :22:08.copycaters, but at least we will diminish the possibility they will
:22:08. > :22:13.see it as an opportunity. One final thought, I know there will be a lot
:22:13. > :22:17.of viewers in Europe who will say this is mostly an American disease
:22:17. > :22:25.to do with gun control, what are your thoughts on, that when
:22:25. > :22:28.obviously in Norway we had a pretty horrific crime last year? There
:22:28. > :22:32.have been a number round the globe, and we have too plane. If we are
:22:32. > :22:37.going to answer it sensibly, we have to compare -- too many. If we
:22:37. > :22:42.are going to answer it sensibly we have to compare the US and nor way.
:22:42. > :22:45.Both have widespread firearm ownership, the US is less orderly
:22:45. > :22:48.and has more of a wild west mentality.
:22:48. > :22:51.Thank you very much for your expertise and knowledge.
:22:51. > :22:54.A few weeks ago a backbench Conservative MP, Nadine Dorries,
:22:54. > :22:58.chastised the Prime Minister, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as
:22:58. > :23:02.two posh boys who don't know the price of milk. Today the Chancellor,
:23:02. > :23:06.George Osborne, did a bit of remedial work, by visiting a farm,
:23:06. > :23:10.to hear firsthand about the difficulties many farmers are
:23:10. > :23:15.having, as they claim the big supermarkets and major milk process
:23:15. > :23:18.sores, are cutting prices to unsustain -- processors are cutting
:23:19. > :23:24.prices to unsustainable levels. We have been to find out what it is
:23:24. > :23:29.all about. Dairy farmers like Peter, cannot
:23:29. > :23:35.simply take a day off. The cows must be milked, if not they get
:23:35. > :23:39.sick, and that means vet's bills or worse. The sad economic truth is
:23:39. > :23:42.every litre that comes from these cows loses the couple money. Why do
:23:42. > :23:46.they carry on? Having invested so much in the herd and equipment,
:23:46. > :23:51.they are just desperate for something to turn up.
:23:51. > :23:55.If I could go back, I wouldn't have come into dairy, when my father-in-
:23:55. > :23:58.law was young, they had a good life, they were still struggling, but not
:23:58. > :24:02.dealing with what they are dealing with now. Everyone out there wants
:24:02. > :24:07.a cut. Everyone makes money out of the dairy farmers, except the dairy
:24:07. > :24:10.farmer. We just can't take it any more. What is wrong with this
:24:10. > :24:15.industry depends entirely who you speak to, for the farmers it is a
:24:15. > :24:18.simple matter, the supermarkets and the processors have all the kards,
:24:18. > :24:25.they dictate the terms -- cards, they dictate the terms and say what
:24:25. > :24:30.price they are going to pay, and they won't pay a penny more. For
:24:30. > :24:35.others it is oversupply, too many farmers, too efficient and
:24:35. > :24:40.producing too much milk. It is argued some of them will have to
:24:40. > :24:47.move on and do something else. Farmers have taken to direct action,
:24:47. > :24:53.with blockades all over the country. Many see Wim Duisenberg dairy as
:24:53. > :24:58.one of the biggest criminal, they have been taking over by Muller in
:24:58. > :25:01.January, and has cut the prices, and another 1.7p cut is due next
:25:01. > :25:04.month. The reason farmers are finding things so difficult at the
:25:04. > :25:09.moment, is the two price cuts that have happened through the spring
:25:09. > :25:13.and summer, which were 2p each, adding up to 4p, that has come at
:25:13. > :25:17.the same time as their costs of production have gone up. So, fuel
:25:17. > :25:22.and fertiliser costs have gone up. And they have also had a period of
:25:22. > :25:26.very bad weather, which has meant, in many dairy farming areas, the
:25:26. > :25:30.farmers have had to bring their cows back inside into the sheds and
:25:30. > :25:34.are feeding them full winter rations, their costs of production
:25:34. > :25:40.have gone up. Those two factors together mean that from a place
:25:40. > :25:44.where the average dairy farmer was probably at about break even, this
:25:44. > :25:47.April they are now losing between 5p-6p a litre of milk that they
:25:47. > :25:52.produce. The price that farmers get for milk,
:25:52. > :25:55.per ly theer, is pretty much back at what it was in the mid-1990s,
:25:55. > :26:05.the industry has responded by getting much more efficient. This
:26:05. > :26:10.
:26:10. > :26:14.is what the average dairy cow was producing back in 200 0.
:26:14. > :26:17.You can't take a holiday, you are here every day, seven days a week.
:26:17. > :26:22.And yet, you are not making money on that? We haven't made any money
:26:22. > :26:26.in the last 14 years. Do you see a prospect of a change?
:26:26. > :26:31.None whatsoever. If the Government doesn't deal with it this time, and
:26:31. > :26:35.the Government says their hands are tied. The Government needs to sit
:26:35. > :26:39.in and give us an adjudicator. Saying these are reasonable terms
:26:39. > :26:43.and these are not? And to say to the processors you can't do this to
:26:43. > :26:46.farmer, make it fair, they can't drop the price when they feel like
:26:46. > :26:51.it. Name and shame all the retailers doing it. So the pressure
:26:51. > :26:56.is on everyone, for the supermarkets to show they are
:26:56. > :27:00.paying a fair price. Today, the Co- Op, have announced they will
:27:00. > :27:04.increase what they pay. Earlier in the week, Asda was tell MPs, they
:27:04. > :27:09.too, will increase what they pay. I'm delighted with the press
:27:09. > :27:14.release from Asda, that milk is going up 2-3p to the farmer. How
:27:14. > :27:22.did we get here in the first place. 2010 you slashed your prices in
:27:22. > :27:28.Asda from �1.53 for four pints of milk to a �16789 all very well for
:27:28. > :27:32.Asda to run milk as a loss leader who will pay for it? The farmer.
:27:32. > :27:35.have a duty and obligation at both endss of the chain, we have a duty
:27:35. > :27:40.and obligation to the farmer, and the customer, particularly at a
:27:40. > :27:43.time when they are finding it difficult to make ends meet.
:27:43. > :27:49.the ends aren't meeting on this hold anything sury. There may be
:27:49. > :27:55.some gold mine dairy arms in Britain, this clearly isn't one of
:27:55. > :28:04.them. -- dairy farms in Britain, this clearly ain't one of them.
:28:04. > :28:10.you are hiding any Rolls-Royces you are doing it very well? I'm waiting
:28:10. > :28:15.for my car to pack up, the bull had a go it. We're in Glasgow with the
:28:15. > :28:20.review show in a minute. Tonight on the review show we have
:28:20. > :28:24.a proper knees up out east, with the new exhibition of David
:28:24. > :28:28.Bailey's photographs of his old stomping ground, the highlights of
:28:28. > :28:33.the Olympic Park, and the sporting extravaganza, and new films in the
:28:33. > :28:37.likes of Mike Leigh and Ramsay ra.. Join me and my guests in a -- Lynne
:28:37. > :28:47.Ramsay, join me and my guests in a moment.
:28:47. > :29:26.
:29:26. > :29:30.That's all from Newsnight tonight, we couldn't leave you without mark
:29:30. > :29:33.ago very good for the anglo-Saxons in France, Mark Cavendish won
:29:33. > :29:38.today's stage of Tour de France, and barring some kind of disaster,
:29:38. > :29:45.Bradley Wiggins is more or less assured, of winning the whole event
:29:45. > :29:50.on Sunday. He will be the first- ever winner.