:00:14. > :00:17.Tonight, is the way to crack down on clever but legal tax avoidance
:00:17. > :00:20.schemes, to name and shame those who profit from them. If there
:00:20. > :00:23.really is something so wrong with the schemes, why not change the
:00:23. > :00:27.law? You also need to remember to do
:00:27. > :00:30.your tax return on-line, pay anything you owe by the 31st of
:00:30. > :00:34.January...$$NEWLINE For those avoiding the tax man, the Treasury
:00:35. > :00:38.insists it is going to get tough. What can Government actually do.
:00:38. > :00:44.Treasury Minister, David Gauke s here to explain, and tell us why he
:00:44. > :00:47.thinks even paying tradesmen in cash is morally wrong.
:00:48. > :00:50.Female genital mutilation, the horrific butchery of young girls
:00:50. > :00:54.practised in some communities, is happening here in Britain. It is
:00:54. > :00:59.against the law, so why have there been no convictions. What would you
:00:59. > :01:02.do if the girl had blue eyes and blonde hair, would it be carrying
:01:02. > :01:07.on in the UK. Who would have thought problems in
:01:07. > :01:12.the lovely Spanish region of Valencia might rattle the whole of
:01:12. > :01:14.Europe? Paul Mason? Europe's politicians are staring at
:01:14. > :01:19.a 400 billion bail out they don't have the money for.
:01:19. > :01:23.On another day of fear and fighting on frontlines of Syria's war with
:01:23. > :01:25.itself, the Assad regime confirms it has chemical weapons. We have a
:01:25. > :01:29.special report from the Syrian border.
:01:29. > :01:35.TRANSLATION: They are trying to carry out sectarian cleansing, to
:01:35. > :01:42.push all the Sunni Muslims out of the villages, to create their own
:01:42. > :01:46.Alawite state. Good evening, the Treasury Minister,
:01:46. > :01:49.David Gauke, reminded us today that those who pay their taxes are
:01:49. > :01:52.extremely irritate bid those who don't. In talking about targeting
:01:52. > :01:56.aggressive tax avoidance schemes, which apyre to be legal, what does
:01:56. > :02:01.the Government really have in mind. If the schemes are so dodgy, why
:02:01. > :02:05.are they not outlawed. What of the views expressed on tomorrow's front
:02:05. > :02:09.pages, that paying traits tradesmen in cash is morally wrong. The
:02:09. > :02:18.minister will speak in a moment. First Allegra Stratton explains
:02:18. > :02:23.some of the Government's thinking. For the Olympic family visiting
:02:23. > :02:28.London the next three weeks should fly by in the lanes, the superfit
:02:28. > :02:33.and the superfit's hangers on, able to pass through the capital on
:02:33. > :02:37.lanes uncluttered by mere mortals. Going way back, the superrich have
:02:37. > :02:41.also enjoyed what could be called the economy zil lanes, finding the
:02:41. > :02:47.trap doors and escape hatch doors that slice through normal tax
:02:47. > :02:50.paying behaviour. A cut in the top rate of tax from 50p to 45p in the
:02:50. > :02:53.last budget suggesting an even smoother ride for the elite. Far
:02:53. > :02:57.from it, the Government insists. are building on the work we have
:02:57. > :03:02.already done to make life difficult for those who artificially, and
:03:02. > :03:05.aggressively reduce their tax bill. These schemes damage our ability to
:03:05. > :03:09.fund public services, and provide support to those who need them.
:03:09. > :03:13.They harm businesses by distorting competition, they damage public
:03:13. > :03:18.confidence, and they undermine the actions of the vast majority of
:03:18. > :03:26.tax-payers, who pay more in tax as a consequence of others enjoying a
:03:26. > :03:30.free ride. Jimmy Carr getting out of his car,
:03:30. > :03:35.and here just being revealed to have enjoyed quite a cheap ride, if
:03:35. > :03:41.not a free one. He was advised to pay his salary into a K2 offshore
:03:41. > :03:44.trust, which saw a lower rate of tax. Legal and fully disclosed to
:03:44. > :03:47.HMRC, the Prime Minister, nonetheless, described it as
:03:47. > :03:52.morally wrong, the comedian apologised. Government was already
:03:52. > :03:56.taking action to stamp out avoidance, with a new general anti-
:03:57. > :04:00.avoidance rule, met by fines of a million pounds if flouted. On
:04:00. > :04:05.Sunday research emerged showing �13 trillion is held in offshore
:04:05. > :04:09.accounts around the world. Today's consultation proposes closing some
:04:09. > :04:14.more bits of road. The Government believes 14% of all unpaid income
:04:14. > :04:19.tax is due to aggressive avoidance schemes. This is behaviour not
:04:19. > :04:25.illegal, but not very sporting, to use an on-trend adjective. It is
:04:25. > :04:30.for those who contriumph to short change the Exchequer. HMRC will get
:04:31. > :04:36.new powers to discover details of wealthy clients take advantage of
:04:36. > :04:39.schemes, and discover how all the tax avoidance schemes work, not the
:04:39. > :04:43.ones only criticised. If penalised, they will provide more information.
:04:43. > :04:46.There are all these tax accountants across the country, who live a
:04:46. > :04:51.little bit close to the edge, in terms of what's legal tax avoidance.
:04:51. > :04:55.What they are trying to do with this consultation is ask those tax
:04:55. > :05:00.advisers, who I like to think of as the mice in this scenario, to tell
:05:00. > :05:03.the cat, which is HMRC, a bit earlier on in the chase about where
:05:03. > :05:06.they are planning to run away to. And HMRC can give an earlier
:05:06. > :05:11.opinion as to whether or not this is going to be legal or not.
:05:11. > :05:16.you see why people think that these practices should just be made
:05:16. > :05:20.illegal rather in this ambiguous territory of being morally
:05:20. > :05:25.outrageous? They do make things illegal after the fact. HMRC spends
:05:25. > :05:29.a lot of time in the Finance Bill trying to close loopholes. This
:05:29. > :05:33.scheme would give earlier notice of what the intended events are, in
:05:33. > :05:39.terms of getting round the loopholes. The issue around bring
:05:39. > :05:44.anything law, is that law, people, accountants, barristers, will find
:05:44. > :05:49.ways around that law. It will be game of cat and mouse, as you find
:05:49. > :05:55.a way through, Government then has to refine that law and close it
:05:55. > :05:58.down. That is very expensive for parliament, it takes a lot of time,
:05:58. > :06:02.keep trying to think about it and closing down what the next route is
:06:02. > :06:05.going to be. One of the significant things about
:06:05. > :06:09.this morning's speech is it is a Conservative minister making the
:06:09. > :06:13.case for tax avoidance clampdown, not a Lib Dem. The Chancellor and
:06:13. > :06:16.Prime Minister have said plenty in this area, but orderly it is the
:06:16. > :06:20.Lib Dems who get to announce the new policies. The trouble is, since
:06:20. > :06:23.the budget and the cut in the 50p rate, the Tories know the sense
:06:23. > :06:26.that they are the friends of the rich and powerful is even greater.
:06:26. > :06:32.It is they who have to be seen to be getting back as much as they
:06:32. > :06:36.have given away. Some critics think the Government is just skimming the
:06:36. > :06:39.surface. A significant percentage of the world's tax havens are
:06:39. > :06:45.actually UK overseas territories or crown dependencies. For example,
:06:45. > :06:51.Jersey, the Isle of Man, the Kayman eye lafrpbds. These are places we -
:06:51. > :06:54.- Kayman islands, these are the places we have the right to
:06:55. > :06:59.legislate for. It is something to keep the press aware, or in the
:06:59. > :07:04.press, aware of what the Government want. But in reality, it does have
:07:04. > :07:08.no teeth to it. The Government wants the superrich,
:07:08. > :07:12.including even donors and friends in the City, to think they are
:07:12. > :07:17.running out of road. Their efforts may be no match for the sat-navs of
:07:17. > :07:22.the very wealthy. The Treasury Minister, David Gauke,
:07:22. > :07:26.is here to give his account of what be achieve pbl in tackling all of
:07:26. > :07:29.this. You talked about name -- achievable
:07:29. > :07:33.in tackling all of this. You talked about naming and shaming the
:07:33. > :07:37.advisers, go ahead, what are the names of these people? I'm not in a
:07:37. > :07:42.position to run through a list of names here and now. Why not? That
:07:42. > :07:47.is not how the system currently works, what we are looking at doing
:07:47. > :07:53.is strengthening the disclosure of tax avoidance schemes rules, so
:07:53. > :07:56.there is more information available to HMRC at an early stage. Where
:07:56. > :08:00.HMRC are able to take action if they need to change the law, or we
:08:00. > :08:06.need to change the law in order to close a loophole, we can do so at
:08:06. > :08:10.an early stage. If a scheme is ineffective and very often they are,
:08:10. > :08:13.HMRC can take litigation action at an early stage and warn off people.
:08:13. > :08:17.When you talk about naming and shaming, you don't really mean that,
:08:17. > :08:21.we have due process in this country, and you can't have a Government
:08:21. > :08:27.minister or HMRC tarting people and saying, publicly, we don't like how
:08:27. > :08:32.you do your tax stuff, you do it privately and it ends up in a tax
:08:32. > :08:36.tribunal? When something goes to a tax tribunal, and HMRC succeeds,
:08:36. > :08:39.they are in a position to put out information about these are the
:08:40. > :08:44.promoters, who for example have promoted a scheme that doesn't work.
:08:44. > :08:47.After? Yes. And next time someone is approached and says this is a
:08:47. > :08:51.fantastic scheme, they have the ability to look and see, here is
:08:51. > :08:54.the same of someone, this person has -- the name of someone who is
:08:54. > :09:00.promoting dodgy schemes. That information ought to be out there.
:09:00. > :09:05.That is wonderful, except for one flaw, the backlog is 20,000 tax
:09:05. > :09:09.tribunal cases which HMRC says at the current rate could take 38
:09:09. > :09:14.years to clear up. You could put the money in getting people through
:09:14. > :09:17.tax tribunals and then name and shame? That story isn't right. It
:09:17. > :09:22.sounds a lot, but there are a lot of lead cases, when one case is
:09:22. > :09:25.dealt with, a lot of other cases fall away. There isn't a particular
:09:26. > :09:29.problem that we need to be overly worried about. There is a new
:09:29. > :09:34.system in place that is settling in all right. I don't think there is a
:09:34. > :09:38.big issue with that. HMRC have got more resources to deal with tax
:09:38. > :09:42.avoidance and evasion, than they have had in the past. The focus is
:09:42. > :09:45.to a greater extent on avoidance and evasion, they have the
:09:46. > :09:50.capability. They are having a good run in terms of litigation, a lot
:09:50. > :09:55.of these schemes are failing. HMRC are having a lot of success here.
:09:55. > :09:59.We want to put out more information to tax-payers, so they can see if a
:09:59. > :10:04.scheme isn't working. Also, that we are able to respond quickly f we
:10:04. > :10:08.need to close down a scheme. I want to talk to you about tomorrow
:10:08. > :10:13.morning's front pages, you have already seen the Telegraph saying
:10:13. > :10:18.it is morally wrong, attributed and quoted to you, to pay tradesmen
:10:18. > :10:23.cash in hand? What does that mean f the window cleaner comes round you
:10:23. > :10:27.can't pay them in cash? Of course you do and people will continue to
:10:27. > :10:32.do. The specific points, I'm not sure the article reflects that. The
:10:32. > :10:38.specific point I was making is when a tradesman says, here is a 20%
:10:38. > :10:43.discount on your bill f you pay me cash-in-hand, that is facilitating
:10:43. > :10:48.the hidden economy. That is as big a problem in terms of loss to the
:10:48. > :10:54.Exchequer as tax avoidance. That is meaning that revenue isn't being
:10:54. > :10:57.paid that should be paid. You have never done, that unlike millions of
:10:57. > :11:02.people presumably across Britain? have never said to a tradesman if I
:11:02. > :11:05.pay you cash can I get a discount, no. Do you think any of your
:11:05. > :11:10.colleagues have done that? I don't know. If people Diamonds Will Do
:11:10. > :11:14.that, they have to do so with -- do that -- if people do that, they
:11:14. > :11:18.have to do it with the recognition taxes will be higher for the rest.
:11:18. > :11:22.That hidden economy is a large part of the issue. Do you think the BBC
:11:22. > :11:26.has got it wrong in paying some people through service companies,
:11:26. > :11:31.they shouldn't do it? I think the point I would make on that is that
:11:31. > :11:33.it does depend on the specific circumstances. There are perfectly
:11:33. > :11:37.reasonable circumstances where someone may be paid through a
:11:37. > :11:41.service company. But if, as a matter of course, an employer,
:11:41. > :11:47.whether the BBC or anybody else, pays people who are essentially
:11:47. > :11:51.employees, working full-time for them, not going off to other
:11:51. > :11:53.organisations, through service companies, for the purposes of
:11:53. > :11:59.reducing national insurance contribution liability, I think
:11:59. > :12:07.that is wrong. You think the BBC may have been doing this? I'm not
:12:07. > :12:11.in a position to comment on the specific circumstances of an
:12:11. > :12:15.individual case. If you try to get round the usual tax system that
:12:15. > :12:18.applies to employees, but using service companies instead, so you
:12:19. > :12:23.pay less in national insurance contributions, then there clearly
:12:23. > :12:28.is artificial tax avoidance. That is wrong. One final quick question,
:12:28. > :12:33.which also falls within your gambit, the Trade Minister in charge of
:12:33. > :12:36.HSBC, when it was accused of money laundering, a serious offence,
:12:36. > :12:41.taken up very seriously in the United States. When do you think he
:12:41. > :12:45.should give an account of what he knew and when he knew it? I'm sure
:12:45. > :12:52.Lord Green will give a full account at the appropriate time. I'm sure
:12:52. > :12:58.he will want to respond at the right time. And you should do.
:12:58. > :13:02.Allegations have clearly been made against HSBC. But, yeah, I think
:13:02. > :13:06.Lord Green is someone with a reputation for integrity, I'm sure
:13:07. > :13:10.he will want to set out his case in due course. You would like to hear
:13:11. > :13:15.it? I'm sure he will set out his case in due course.
:13:15. > :13:19.Now, thousands of women and girls living here in the UK have been
:13:19. > :13:24.subjected to the practice of female genital mutilation, the custom of
:13:24. > :13:28.FGM, as it is known, is widely practised in some ethnic minority
:13:28. > :13:31.communities in Britain, and made illegal 30 years ago. Since then
:13:31. > :13:36.not a single prosecution has been brought. Now there are reports that
:13:36. > :13:40.some young girls are brought to Britain to be mutilated.
:13:40. > :13:43.We have been investigating, on learning of this report, the head
:13:43. > :13:48.of the Crown Prosecution Service has said he is determined to find
:13:48. > :13:53.way to prosecute those guilty of cutting young girls and some. Some
:13:53. > :14:03.of the imimages in this report are explicit, you may find them
:14:03. > :14:05.
:14:05. > :14:08.upsetting. Parliament outlawed female genital
:14:08. > :14:11.mutilation nearly 30 years ago. Specialist units were set up at
:14:11. > :14:18.major hospitals throughout the country to help those already
:14:18. > :14:22.mutilated. Later, it was made an offence to
:14:22. > :14:27.take a British-born girl abroad for the purposes of mutilation.
:14:28. > :14:33.And yet, thousands of girls in the UK today are still at risk.
:14:33. > :14:37.My legs were spread, I thought this is not right, then I felt this pain,
:14:37. > :14:44.I remember just screaming and I think everyone was just shocked, it
:14:44. > :14:52.was like I had 50 pairs of hands cover my mouth my nose, I was
:14:52. > :14:55.fighting, fighting, fighting. I can hear it the sound, just the cutting.
:14:55. > :15:00.Emma explained she was 14 when she was taken from Brixton to Sierra
:15:00. > :15:04.Leone to be cut. She's at the FGM clinic at St Thomas's, because
:15:04. > :15:08.she's about to get married and she's worried. I realise a part of
:15:09. > :15:12.me was musing, then I started to feel -- missing, and then I started
:15:12. > :15:16.to feel very different from anybody else. If I'm with all my
:15:16. > :15:24.girlfriends, I feel different. There are certain things that they
:15:25. > :15:29.can feel that I may never get to experience. Comfort Momoh, the
:15:29. > :15:37.country's expert on FGM, says most of the women she sees has what's
:15:37. > :15:42.known as Type 3. This is a typical example of Type 3, as you can see
:15:42. > :15:46.the clitoris is missing here, and the closure here, and leaving a
:15:46. > :15:52.small opening there. Out of which urine, menstrual blood, everything
:15:52. > :15:56.has to come. Even having sexual intercourse will be so painful. And
:15:56. > :16:00.for some women to achieve penetration can take up to six
:16:01. > :16:05.months, unfortunately. She travels the UK explaining how to repair
:16:05. > :16:10.women who have been cut. To ease sexual intercourse and childbirth.
:16:10. > :16:15.And finds that the facilities available for the task vary.
:16:15. > :16:22.England we have about 17 clinics that support women and girls. I do
:16:22. > :16:26.travel a lot. I provide support to other midwives, doctors, and
:16:26. > :16:29.professionals, but I feel that in Scotland they are not ready for the
:16:29. > :16:38.number of immigrants that they are receiving and they need lots of
:16:38. > :16:44.support. Scotland's experience with
:16:44. > :16:48.communities who practice FGM is very new. It was only ten years ago,
:16:48. > :16:52.with the Government's refugee dispersal policy, that the tower
:16:52. > :16:56.blocks of Glasgow filled with new immigrants, from those countries,
:16:56. > :17:00.like Somalia, where women are routinely mutilated, in the name of
:17:00. > :17:08.purification. To ensure that they experience no
:17:08. > :17:12.sexual pleasure. Having intercourse was more painful
:17:12. > :17:16.than giving birth. I did shout and scream, but he didn't care, all he
:17:16. > :17:23.wanted to know was if I'm a virgin or not. The Africans, some of them
:17:23. > :17:30.believe it is something that should be done, like every woman needs to
:17:30. > :17:36.be circumcised. Others don't believe in it.
:17:36. > :17:39.Faceded with a new population of thousands of mutilated women, and
:17:39. > :17:43.as many children at risk, the Scottish Government rushed through
:17:43. > :17:51.laws, some years after they were passed in England. Making FGM
:17:51. > :17:55.illegal here, and for parents to take their children abroad to do it.
:17:55. > :18:00.Nicky Loughran, a lawyer specialising in asylum, meets with
:18:00. > :18:05.immigrants regularly. She says she knows the law forbidding FGM is
:18:05. > :18:11.being broken. We cannot assume it suddenly stops when family crosses
:18:11. > :18:15.a border, that they suddenly lose their culture of centuries. And
:18:15. > :18:20.they suddenly become "British" in their way of thinking and in their
:18:20. > :18:25.attitude to their daughters, and in their attitude to virginity and
:18:25. > :18:29.monogamy, cleanliness, all reasons, all stated reasons for continuing
:18:29. > :18:34.circumcision in girls. Do they know the law, do they know it is illegal
:18:34. > :18:39.in this country? No, I don't think so. People need to know the law
:18:39. > :18:46.will be enforced. There hasn't been a single
:18:46. > :18:50.prosecution against FGM in Scotland, or in the UK as a whole.
:18:50. > :18:55.Ayanna told me of two recent incidents of girls being cut in
:18:55. > :19:00.Glasgow. One was three, and the other one was just about two weeks.
:19:00. > :19:06.By whom? Mostly by the elderly women, the parents' mums. What
:19:06. > :19:10.method do they use? Scissor, blade or a sharp knife. Who is making the
:19:10. > :19:15.community feel this way, is it the women or the men? It is the choice
:19:15. > :19:21.of the man, if the man is wanting to marry a woman, he needs a woman
:19:21. > :19:31.that has been circumcised. So they force the women to circumcise their
:19:31. > :19:35.daughters, in order for them to marry their daughters.
:19:35. > :19:40.What do the men say? In a local hangout for Somali men, I asked
:19:40. > :19:45.them, do they really want their women mutilated? No, most of them
:19:45. > :19:48.said, it is their mothers who want it. Not the woman, it is the mother
:19:48. > :19:52.of the children, they do their children. Others said they didn't
:19:52. > :19:56.much care either way. If you want to do it, you can do it, if you
:19:56. > :20:01.don't want, you don't do it, you know.
:20:01. > :20:07.You wonder why the two sexes don't talk to one another. Some mothers
:20:07. > :20:10.they cannot be understanding. group of Somali women, all who have
:20:10. > :20:15.been cut, say they wish the authorities would do more to help.
:20:15. > :20:20.By getting the anti-FGM message across. If the authorities can help
:20:20. > :20:24.us to make these people to stop t I would be very happy. Since I came
:20:24. > :20:28.here I have never heard about it. I have had two years in this country,
:20:28. > :20:37.I have never heard of this. They need classes telling what happens,
:20:37. > :20:41.what is right, what is wrong. women also want help when they
:20:41. > :20:46.return to their country of origin for holidays, where many
:20:46. > :20:49.mutilations take place. The authorities, they say, could
:20:50. > :20:54.threaten to check girls on their return.
:20:54. > :20:57.It is dangerous if families go back to Africa, because the child will
:20:57. > :21:00.spend time with the grannies more than you. They may take your
:21:00. > :21:10.daughter, there is nothing you can do about it. All they will tell you
:21:10. > :21:10.
:21:10. > :21:14.is they have done it, that's it, that's it.
:21:14. > :21:18.Many newly-arrived mothers, who have been mutilated, don't attend
:21:18. > :21:24.antenatal clinics. Doctors are confronted with a woman who needs
:21:24. > :21:30.to be unstitched urgently, only when she arrives at the hospital in
:21:30. > :21:40.labour. If a baby girl is born to a mother who comes from a community
:21:40. > :21:46.
:21:46. > :21:50.that routinely does GFM mutilation. But should that child be placed on
:21:50. > :21:54.an "at-risk" register and kept up with. When I spoke to the midwives
:21:54. > :21:58.concerned in Glasgow I was told I couldn't, but was assured that
:21:58. > :22:03.policies and protocols are in place. When I wanted to interview social
:22:03. > :22:07.workers to ask they keep an eye on girls who could be at risk, I was
:22:07. > :22:13.told there were no social workers available, with sufficient
:22:13. > :22:18.experience of FGM. When I asked to talk to head
:22:18. > :22:24.teachers, I was told I couldn't, there were no guidelines issued to
:22:24. > :22:28.schools on FGM. Why does no-one want to talk?
:22:28. > :22:33.wish that people did talk about it more, so that the subject is raised.
:22:33. > :22:36.I'm amazed that you are meeting a wall of silence from the very
:22:36. > :22:46.professionals that I would think would really want to grapple with
:22:46. > :22:49.
:22:50. > :22:54.it, in the best interests of the child.
:22:54. > :22:59.Is the situation any better across the border in England? Where laws
:22:59. > :23:03.against FGM were introduced back in the 1980s.
:23:03. > :23:06.A lot of people thought it was taboo, a lot of people would be
:23:06. > :23:10.like it's women's bits, you shouldn't be talking about that in
:23:10. > :23:14.public. A group of schoolgirls, here in Bristol, are so frustrated
:23:14. > :23:24.by the way people don't talk about FGM, that they have made their own
:23:24. > :23:26.
:23:26. > :23:29.film. The Silent Scream depicts a family
:23:29. > :23:33.where the parents are at odds over whether to mutilate their youngest
:23:33. > :23:37.daughter, whom the older sister is trying to protect. We live in the
:23:37. > :23:42.21st century, things have changed, can't you see that. Break-away from
:23:42. > :23:52.our tradition. Who will want to marry her if she doesn't. Men don't
:23:52. > :23:57.
:23:57. > :24:04.want it. That is what you say, Those statistics show how little
:24:04. > :24:07.the Government is doing to stop FGM. They are so terrified, and they are
:24:07. > :24:11.using cultural sensitivity as a barrier to stop themselves from
:24:11. > :24:15.really doing anything. What would you do if the girl had blue eyes
:24:15. > :24:21.and blonde hair, would FGM still be carrying on in the UK. Do you have
:24:21. > :24:25.a message for David Cameron? grow a pair and do something about
:24:25. > :24:30.FGM! If you can't handle the issue, then there is no point of you doing
:24:30. > :24:35.your job. They say the majority of women in
:24:35. > :24:41.their community are mutilated, and that the girls get cut at FGM
:24:41. > :24:47.parties in Bristol. They have the parties like all in one go, all the
:24:47. > :24:50.girls come together with the parents, the party is because it is
:24:50. > :24:54.cheaper and get it all over at the same time. Who is doing the
:24:54. > :25:04.cutting? Either the mothers, or they get the mum who is experienced
:25:04. > :25:04.
:25:05. > :25:12.in cutting, an elder in the community to come and do it T
:25:12. > :25:17.Their film ends with the fact that everyone finds bewildering.
:25:17. > :25:27.At Scotland Yard they say they have had 82 incidents of FGM reported to
:25:27. > :25:28.
:25:28. > :25:32.them. Why don't they prosecute? not necessarily sure that the the
:25:32. > :25:38.availability of a stronger sense of the likelihood of being prosecuted
:25:38. > :25:44.will necessarily change it for the better.
:25:44. > :25:49.The police claim that the lack of prosecutions is due, in part, to
:25:49. > :25:54.the difficulty in investigation. In France, where there have been some
:25:54. > :26:00.100 convictionings for FGM, all school-aged children are inspected.
:26:00. > :26:08.Why don't we do that here? convictions for FGM, why don't we
:26:08. > :26:12.do that here? Inspection in our times could be considered a form of
:26:12. > :26:17.abuse. We need to be careful with the law in this country that we
:26:17. > :26:22.should not encourage behaviour towards a child, against their will,
:26:22. > :26:30.even in their personal interest, if that behaviour itself amounts to
:26:30. > :26:35.something that is child abuse. And that has been the received
:26:35. > :26:39.wisdom in this country for nearly 30 years.
:26:39. > :26:46.Meanwhile, the latest figures released on FGM in the UK suggest
:26:46. > :26:49.that the number of mutilations taking place is increasing.
:26:49. > :26:54.Tomorrow Sue will be reporting on how France takes a much tougher
:26:54. > :26:57.line on FGM than the UK. We will have a special studio debate,
:26:57. > :27:02.including the Home Office Minister, we will be asking what more needs
:27:02. > :27:07.to be done to stop FGM. Well, it was groundhog day, one more time
:27:07. > :27:14.again today on the European money markets, as the long-running soap
:27:14. > :27:17.opera of the euro, again unsettled nervous traders. It was the region
:27:17. > :27:22.of Valencia, looking for cash from the Spanish Government, pushing
:27:22. > :27:26.Spain's bond yields into the disaster zone. And pushing down the
:27:26. > :27:30.major stock market measure down by 5% at one point. Paul Mason has
:27:30. > :27:34.been looking at the chronic de disease that won't go away. What
:27:34. > :27:40.unsettled the markets today? people who decided who wants to
:27:40. > :27:45.hold Spanish debt, they said this economy is shrinking by 1.5% per an
:27:46. > :27:49.number, the regions are slowly going bust, they are -- per year,
:27:49. > :27:58.the regions are slowly going bust, they provide merge he is services
:27:58. > :28:01.and the Government is coming out with one statement of denial after
:28:01. > :28:07.another. This is the cost of borrowing on the market over the
:28:07. > :28:13.past six months. Today, at 7.5% is the highest it has ever been in the
:28:13. > :28:19.eurozone, it is a signal where the time may come where Spain can't
:28:19. > :28:23.borrow on the markets. That had an impact on Spanish stock markets,
:28:23. > :28:27.the shares fell by up to 5%, and the Government stepped in and
:28:27. > :28:33.banned short selling. We remember short selling from the Lehman
:28:33. > :28:39.Brothers days, that is a signal of crisis. The German stock market
:28:39. > :28:44.fell 3%, some German banks were hammered. Greece topped off the day
:28:44. > :28:49.with a one-day fall of 7%, it would be remarkable if it were not a time
:28:49. > :28:53.where it keeps on happening. It is still startling how Greece can
:28:53. > :28:57.still unsettle the markets? Greece, the noises coming from
:28:57. > :29:02.German politicians, unnamed sources in the IMF, all saying the new
:29:02. > :29:07.Government, the coalition of everybody but the left supposed to
:29:07. > :29:12.sort things out, it isn't happening fast enough, the fiem time may come
:29:12. > :29:19.to pull the plug on Greece. It is more uncertainty. What about Spain?
:29:19. > :29:23.It has to borrow 150 billion euros in two years, another 150 billion
:29:23. > :29:29.for sister, another 160 billion caused by overborrowing, the deep
:29:29. > :29:32.trepidation in Spain that they can't do it. A 400 euro bail out,
:29:32. > :29:37.that is what it would need, is money the ruen European Union just
:29:37. > :29:41.doesn't have at the moment. We have -- the European Union just doesn't
:29:41. > :29:43.have moment. We have ratings agency talking about Germany and Holland,
:29:43. > :29:51.talking about downgrading your sovereign debt rating because of
:29:51. > :29:58.this. Lovely, thank you very much. With me now is Megan Green, and the
:29:58. > :30:04.economist Ken Rogoff also joins us. The Spanish economy minister is
:30:04. > :30:10.saying Spain doesn't need a full bail out, do you think he's right?
:30:10. > :30:16.I don't it will turn out they don't need a bail out. Spain will end up
:30:16. > :30:22.needing money. Things are clearly going down hill. The Spanish rekals
:30:22. > :30:26.transabout accepting a bail out, German ambivalence about giving one,
:30:26. > :30:30.and France's dubts about having a political union, all mean we can't
:30:30. > :30:37.get aic -- Downing Street about having a political union, all means
:30:37. > :30:43.we can't have but have Downing Street about this. Surely the whole
:30:44. > :30:48.European economy isn't dependant on a few Spanish municipalities paying
:30:48. > :30:54.their bills? You have Catalonia, the economy the size of Portugal
:30:54. > :30:57.that might need a bail out from Spain. Their public debt is
:30:57. > :31:00.untenable, but its external debt position is completely
:31:00. > :31:05.unsustainable, I don't see any way that Spain can afford a bail out.
:31:05. > :31:08.When Spain gets a bail out, unfortunately, Italy is right
:31:08. > :31:14.behind it. The big picture here, we have been talking about this, all
:31:14. > :31:17.of us, with monotonous regularity for a few years, is the big picture
:31:17. > :31:21.there is no structural solution to the eurozone's problems, because it
:31:21. > :31:28.was never conceived to deal with this, and the politicians haven't
:31:28. > :31:31.really got a clue? Nobody knows. They clearly need much more of a
:31:31. > :31:36.political union, eventually, to stablise things. They have to put
:31:36. > :31:40.that on the map, they have to put that on the horizon for anything to
:31:40. > :31:43.work. You need unlimited support here, that doesn't have credibility
:31:43. > :31:48.without movement towards a political union. I think they have
:31:48. > :31:54.a lot of cards to play. I would be very reluctant to say it is about
:31:54. > :31:59.to fall apart tomorrow. The problem is, it is such an existential risk,
:31:59. > :32:02.nobody knows how it will play out f it does blow up, it really unnerves
:32:02. > :32:06.markets. They are nowhere near settling things, because they just
:32:06. > :32:11.don't have agreement on the fundamentals. Aren't they on the
:32:11. > :32:15.road, they say, to some kind of political union. We have gone
:32:15. > :32:18.through the French election, we have had all the nice warm words,
:32:18. > :32:21.they constantly tell us they are on the road to sorting it. They have
:32:21. > :32:29.solved the immediate problem, and in the long-term there will be this
:32:29. > :32:34.union that you talk about? I think the French election was a giant
:32:34. > :32:37.step backwards, the French basically rejected a lot of the
:32:37. > :32:41.movement towards a more centralised Europe, and yet, there is no
:32:41. > :32:46.solution in the long run without doing that. I think it is clearly
:32:46. > :32:50.that this experiment of trying to have the euro ahead of the
:32:50. > :32:55.political union was not a good idea. Either it is going to blow up, or
:32:55. > :32:59.they are going to move towards union. All these financial
:32:59. > :33:02.engineering solutions, the euro bonds, the European Central Bank
:33:02. > :33:09.coming in, they are tempising measures. Don't think it is
:33:09. > :33:15.necessarily going to end now. These temporising measures, they could
:33:15. > :33:19.work for a while, this could drag out for years. That is a happy note.
:33:19. > :33:22.Megan, you were nodding through that, you agree with that?
:33:22. > :33:27.Political union is the first step, they really need a banking and
:33:27. > :33:30.fiscal union, and then the ECB might be willing to actually step
:33:30. > :33:33.in and provide some support as a bridge. Unfortunate he loo, all of
:33:33. > :33:39.the countries in the eurozone aren't agreed on the end game, or
:33:39. > :33:42.on any of the details. Haven't we got used to it, in a way, this
:33:43. > :33:46.stuff about kicking the can down the road, maybe they can do that
:33:46. > :33:50.for the next eight years? I think Kenneth is right, they are going to
:33:50. > :33:55.buy time with a number of policy rabbit that is they pull out of
:33:55. > :33:58.hats. We are going to lurch from crisis to crisis the euro zone
:33:58. > :34:03.isn't -- eurozone isn't about to fall apart, but if you take
:34:03. > :34:08.everything to extremes there are only two possible outcomes, it
:34:08. > :34:12.disintegrates or moves towards closer union. The core of all this
:34:12. > :34:17.is Germany, and what they are prepared to do and what their
:34:17. > :34:21.Supreme Court finds constitutional to do? That's right, the German
:34:21. > :34:27.constitutional court is waiting until September, they are on summer
:34:27. > :34:33.vacation, to rule whether the latest bail out will be legal. The
:34:33. > :34:38.German politician would argue they are already skirting that they can
:34:38. > :34:42.do constitutionally. I agree with Megan, they need a fast fiscal and
:34:42. > :34:48.banking union, that is saying they are in a political union. You need
:34:48. > :34:51.legitimacy for that, it has to come at every level, it is a mess.
:34:51. > :34:54.The Syrian Government has publicly admitted what many other
:34:54. > :34:59.Governments in the region already knew, they have chemical weapons.
:34:59. > :35:02.But they said they would be use the only against foreign agressors, not
:35:02. > :35:07.against their own civilian population. It is not much of a
:35:07. > :35:10.comfort, however, especially as they are on record as blaming
:35:10. > :35:14.foreign agressors for much of the trouble in the first place.
:35:14. > :35:19.Today, they are watching the destruction in Syria on TV, but
:35:19. > :35:24.they have lived through it themselves. Some have been damaged
:35:24. > :35:28.beyond repair. This rebel fighter is now recuperating in a flat
:35:28. > :35:31.across the border in Turkey. He lost his leg to a schrapnal wound,
:35:31. > :35:38.after the house he was sheltering in his home province, was shelled
:35:38. > :35:46.by a Government tax. TRANSLATION: I was moved to the
:35:46. > :35:51.field hospital. This bone was smashed, they put a metal plate in
:35:51. > :35:56.there. And also in this food, my left knee was smashed too, and they
:35:56. > :35:59.put wire to keep it straight, like that I was moved to Turkey, but
:35:59. > :36:05.they didn't operate. I spent five- and-a-half months in the hospital
:36:05. > :36:10.here. And then I pound I had gangrene.
:36:10. > :36:15.Before the war he was a decorator, he will not be able to do that
:36:15. > :36:19.again. This man, who arrived two days ago, worked in a clothes shop,
:36:19. > :36:25.he wasn't a fighter, just a protestor. But he still got shot in
:36:25. > :36:29.the stomach, he says, by the pro- regime militia, the Shabiha, the
:36:29. > :36:34.bullet, from a Russian-made heavy machine gun, ripped through his
:36:34. > :36:38.intestines. TRANSLATION: They were shooting
:36:38. > :36:43.everyone who left their house, not just me, but everyone they saw in
:36:44. > :36:50.the street, the whole area was surrounded by the Shabiha. And
:36:50. > :36:55.anyone who left the house was shot. They are all from Hama province, in
:36:55. > :37:02.central Syria, but the war is also going on much closer. Even in the
:37:02. > :37:07.part of Syria you can see from the parliamentary party window.
:37:07. > :37:11.-- the apartment window. There has been talk of a buffer zone along
:37:11. > :37:16.the hills of the border, but Turkey and its western allies have balked
:37:16. > :37:21.at the idea. Today smoke is rising, apparently from Syrian army
:37:21. > :37:25.shelling of rebel positions. The land behind me in northern Syria is
:37:25. > :37:28.still a battleground there are villages and stretches of
:37:28. > :37:33.countryside that have been in rebel hands for months. Inbetween the
:37:33. > :37:39.main roads and some towns are still controlled by the Government. The
:37:39. > :37:42.members' hopes are pinned partly on establishing a single, unbroken
:37:42. > :37:47.expanse of territory from which they could advance, they haven't
:37:47. > :37:50.achieved that yet. Today fighting continued in the northern city of
:37:50. > :37:53.Aleppo, with a Government tank set on fire, and rebel fighters moving
:37:53. > :37:58.through the streets. As they were celebrating their advance, there
:37:58. > :38:03.was a veiled warning to outside powers, from a Government spokesman
:38:03. > :38:08.in the capital, Damascus, acknowledging, for the first time,
:38:08. > :38:13.Syria's chemical weapons stockpile. TRANSLATION: Chemical weapons will
:38:13. > :38:17.not be used during the crisis in Syria, irrespective of developments.
:38:17. > :38:25.These weapons are stored and safeguarded by Syrian forces. They
:38:25. > :38:28.will not be used at all, unless Syria is attacked by foreign forces.
:38:29. > :38:35.But even without foreign intervention, which has effectively
:38:35. > :38:40.been ruled out. The regime's days, most believe, are numbered. Western
:38:40. > :38:44.powers are already considering a post-Assad Syria. The regime will
:38:44. > :38:48.fall, but it will leave Syria in a difficult position. We need to
:38:48. > :38:54.focus on what to do the day after, we don't know when that day will
:38:54. > :38:57.come, but it will come. For the 2,500 Syrians in this sprawling
:38:57. > :39:01.refugee camp in southern Turkey, that day can't come soon enough,
:39:01. > :39:06.although they don't know what they will return to. Many of the people
:39:06. > :39:09.in this camp have been here for more than a year, they hope with
:39:09. > :39:14.the rebels' recent successes that they Maysoon be able to go hom.
:39:14. > :39:19.There are fears that even the fall of the regime in -- home. There are
:39:19. > :39:23.fears that even with the fall of the regime in Damascus, may not end
:39:23. > :39:30.the conflict in their countries. In in this tent is a young Sunni
:39:30. > :39:34.Muslim who fled from the heartland of President Assad's Alawite sect a
:39:34. > :39:37.week ago. He fears his family may suffer if he shows his face.
:39:37. > :39:42.TRANSLATION: They are trying to carry out sectarian cleansing, to
:39:42. > :39:47.push all the Sunni Muslims out of the villages, to create their own
:39:47. > :39:56.Alawite state. It is a new plan, when we left everyone left, no
:39:56. > :39:59.women, no children, the area is deserted.
:39:59. > :40:04.Some think that Bashar Al-Assad will make a final stand in his
:40:04. > :40:07.family region along the coast. It is unlikely he will take up the
:40:08. > :40:13.offer from the Arab League of safe passage out of the country.
:40:13. > :40:17.Whatever happens, this war will alter relations between Syria's
:40:17. > :40:20.Sunni majority, and the Alawite minority, forever. TRANSLATION:
:40:20. > :40:27.Before the revolution relations with the Alawites were normal,
:40:28. > :40:32.after the revolution is changed. If we go on the protest and chant,
:40:32. > :40:39.they will come from the next village and shoot us, for them it
:40:39. > :40:44.is God, Syria and Assad, for them he's like God. Back in the flat in
:40:44. > :40:48.southern Turkey, the wounded rebels are cared for by a dentist from
:40:48. > :40:52.another Syrian minority, he's a Christian, and supports the
:40:52. > :40:58.uprising, but doesn't trust the opposition's exiled leadership, the
:40:58. > :41:01.Syrian National Council. He's worried about sectarian in a post-
:41:01. > :41:05.Assad Syria. TRANSLATION: The force which is dominating the Syrian
:41:05. > :41:08.National Council has the same mentality as the regime. That force
:41:09. > :41:12.is the Muslim Brotherhood. And they are a sectarian group, who base
:41:12. > :41:15.everything on religion. They treat the population like children. We
:41:15. > :41:20.have many secular people in the National Council, highly educated
:41:20. > :41:24.people, but they are sidelined by the Muslim Brotherhood, who want to
:41:24. > :41:27.control everything. Syria's rebels have fought hard, but it is not yet
:41:27. > :41:34.clear who will profit most from their struggle, or what new Syria
:41:34. > :41:38.will emerge. The BBC's commentator has just made
:41:38. > :41:45.it into Aleppo, and a short while ago gave us his assessment of the
:41:45. > :41:49.situation there, he was speaking on a videophone. What you are looking
:41:49. > :41:53.at are burning barricades set up by hundreds of rebel fighters who have
:41:53. > :41:57.just moved into the city itself, from the Aleppo countryside. We
:41:57. > :42:02.have to use night vision, which explains the picture quality, just
:42:02. > :42:07.because it is unsafe to turn major lights on. The rebel fighters were
:42:07. > :42:11.following orders, and poured in from various towns and cities
:42:11. > :42:14.around the Aleppo countryside, because they believed...there as
:42:14. > :42:20.many as six neighbourhoods now up in arms against the regime. Today
:42:20. > :42:24.we saw shelling, certainly of one of the districts, and the sound of
:42:24. > :42:29.heavy gunfire. They feel they have the initiative, the truth is, they
:42:29. > :42:33.are still outmanned and outgunned by the Syrian army, they are
:42:33. > :42:37.waiting to see how they will respond in this particular area.
:42:37. > :42:41.Why does Aleppo matter? It is Syria's second largest city, and
:42:41. > :42:45.the economic hub, it accounts for half of all industry and commerce
:42:45. > :42:49.for the country. If, and it is a large if, President Assad were to
:42:49. > :42:53.lose power here, that would present a significant blow to his control
:42:53. > :42:59.of the country. Our apologise for the poor sound quality.
:43:00. > :43:06.I have also been speaking to Melissa Feming of the UN refugee
:43:06. > :43:10.agency, UNHCH. What are your people on the ground selling you about the
:43:10. > :43:14.situation in Sir -- telling you about the situation in Syria now?
:43:14. > :43:17.The situation in Syria has been very tense for a time. Now the
:43:18. > :43:23.deadly violence is spreading, it has spread to Damascus now. Once
:43:23. > :43:26.considered a haven for people inside the country trying to escape
:43:26. > :43:31.silence from homes. Now what is happening is people are fleeing
:43:31. > :43:36.Damascus in droves. We saw, just last week, in one go, in two days,
:43:36. > :43:43.18,000 people fleeing across the border, into Lebanon. We are
:43:43. > :43:46.reporting tonight allegations of sectarian cleansing of non-Alawites
:43:46. > :43:50.in the area around there, do you have any information on that or
:43:50. > :43:57.similar examples of the killings of people, just because of their faith
:43:57. > :44:02.or background? UNHCR does have 250 staff inside Syria, we do not have
:44:02. > :44:06.staff in that location, so we can't coroborate that. But Iraqis, the
:44:06. > :44:11.people that we have been taking care of, the refugees that have
:44:11. > :44:17.been, for many years, seeking shelter and safety inside Syria,
:44:17. > :44:22.have now been bombarding our hot- lines with tales of terror,
:44:22. > :44:28.actually many of them feel targeted, they say they have been getting
:44:28. > :44:33.death threats, others say they are terrified by the violence, they
:44:33. > :44:38.want to move back to Iraq a place they were not ready to go until now.
:44:38. > :44:42.But bus loads of Iraqis are now going back home. Into all this mix,
:44:42. > :44:47.we heard from the regime theself today, they have confirmed they
:44:47. > :44:50.have chemical weapons. I wonder how that -- regime themselves today,
:44:50. > :44:55.they have confirmed they have chemical weapons, I wonder how that
:44:55. > :45:01.affects your duty of care for your staff? We are concerned for our
:45:01. > :45:06.staff, most of our staff are Syrian nationals. 250UNHCR staff, the
:45:06. > :45:12.majority coming from the region. Many actually already deciding to
:45:12. > :45:17.flee. Chemical weapons, that would be the absolute worst possible
:45:17. > :45:23.scenario. We have no actual plans for that taking place, but we do
:45:23. > :45:28.have stockpiles, huge warehouses full of equipment and full of basic
:45:28. > :45:33.needs for people who are displaced, that is really what UNHCR is all
:45:33. > :45:36.about. If, as you said, there are some 80,000 Iraqis who are worried,
:45:36. > :45:40.having gone to Syria for safety, many now thinking of going back
:45:40. > :45:43.home to Iraq, the scale of this, in terms of the overall Syrian
:45:43. > :45:47.population, and the strain that will put on neighbouring countries,
:45:47. > :45:52.we haven't seen anything like this in that region for quite some time?
:45:52. > :45:56.Certainly in that region, this is quite an operation. What we are
:45:56. > :46:04.seeing is Syrian displacement, inside the country, there could be
:46:04. > :46:09.as many as one million to 11.5 million Syrian citizens who have --
:46:09. > :46:11.1.5 million Syrian citizens who have fled their homes and crossed
:46:11. > :46:16.border, they are difficult to reach, they are staying with people they
:46:16. > :46:19.know or family or relatives, but the supplies will fast run out,
:46:20. > :46:24.this is becoming an increasingly desperate situation. Every day, at
:46:24. > :46:34.least 1,000 people are crossing international borders to seek
:46:34. > :46:42.shelter and safety in other countries. Just a quick look at the
:46:42. > :46:52.front pages. The Telegraph has the morally wrong act of paying
:46:52. > :47:11.
:47:12. > :47:21.That's all from us tonight. We will be back with the special report on
:47:22. > :47:38.
:47:38. > :47:48.female genital mutilation tomorrow, female genital mutilation tomorrow,
:47:48. > :47:52.
:47:52. > :47:55.good night. Sizzling day it was across southern
:47:55. > :47:59.parts of the UK. Different further north, some cloud and outbreak of
:47:59. > :48:02.rain. That is the story again as we go through Tuesday, with the north-
:48:02. > :48:06.south divide, outbreaks of rain for Northern Ireland, Scotland, the far
:48:06. > :48:11.north of England. Further south, with the clear blue skies, the
:48:11. > :48:15.light winds and sunshine, temperatures again will sore. By
:48:15. > :48:20.mid-afternoon we are looking -- soar, by mid-afternoon we are
:48:20. > :48:24.looking for high temperatures. In the beaches there will be cooling
:48:24. > :48:28.sea breezes, temperatures there could be several degrees lower.
:48:28. > :48:35.Pleasant enough. A nice day for most of Wales, away from the far
:48:35. > :48:38.North West. Where there will be cloud and heavy rain for a time
:48:38. > :48:41.across parts of Northern Ireland. Particularly down in Armagh. Dry
:48:41. > :48:48.towards the north coast, the north western half of Scotland
:48:48. > :48:53.brightening up nicely, further south further outbreaks of rain.
:48:53. > :48:56.Some dry weather, esently, a little cloud around -- eventually, a
:48:56. > :48:59.little cloud around. The heat continuing through Wednesday,
:48:59. > :49:03.across many southern areas, temperatures nudging 30 degrees in