:00:13. > :00:16.Tonight, is Britain becoming the European capital for female genital
:00:16. > :00:21.mutilation. It has been illegal here for decades, but there has
:00:21. > :00:25.never been a single prosecution. In a Newsnight investigation, we
:00:25. > :00:29.show how in France, while the authorities take a very tough line
:00:29. > :00:33.on those who do the cutting. Doctors offer medical aid to the
:00:33. > :00:35.victims. The French campaign against female
:00:35. > :00:41.genital mutilation is thorough and long-term. If a child slips through
:00:41. > :00:45.the net, or if a woman immigrant arrives in the country who has been
:00:45. > :00:50.mutilated, reconstructive surgery is at hand. Tonight activists tell
:00:50. > :00:54.us parents are coming to this country instead. People from other
:00:54. > :00:58.European countries, they will go to the UK and circumcise their
:00:58. > :01:05.daughters there. We will ask why a blind eye is being turned to the
:01:05. > :01:12.horrific multlation of young women here, with the Home Office minister,
:01:12. > :01:16.Lynne Featherstone, and a MoDp who went under as a child, and a
:01:16. > :01:18.representative of the Somali children. How do the children of
:01:18. > :01:23.the affected communities feel about this tradition. We will ask some of
:01:23. > :01:28.the young people who helped us with our investigation.
:01:28. > :01:31.Also tonight, Rebekah Brooks, Andy Coulson and others are charged with
:01:31. > :01:34.phone hacking. Anybody who knows me or has worked with me, knows that I
:01:34. > :01:42.wouldn't, or didn't do anything to damage the Milly Dowler
:01:43. > :01:46.investigation. Good evening, if it was girls with
:01:46. > :01:51.blonde hair and blue eyes being cut, what would the Government do, that
:01:51. > :01:55.is a question a student from Bristol wants to ask David Cameron.
:01:55. > :01:59.Who question assumes it is racism behind the fact that despite female
:01:59. > :02:03.gentital mutilation being illegal in Britain since 1985, there have
:02:03. > :02:05.been no prosecutions, and no shortage of stories about it
:02:05. > :02:08.happening here. Tonight we will explore why girls in the UK are
:02:08. > :02:16.having their genitals cut, and what the Government can and should do
:02:16. > :02:18.about it. Sue Lloyd Roberts has been
:02:18. > :02:23.investigating female gentital mutilation from around the world.
:02:23. > :02:27.Her shocking report from Egypt earlier in the year showed how
:02:27. > :02:29.women there have been mutilated, even though it was banned. Some
:02:29. > :02:34.estimates suggest more than 20 though young girls are at risk in
:02:34. > :02:39.the UK each year. Tonight we look at the tough stance taken in France,
:02:39. > :02:42.where around 100 parents and practitioners have been prosecuted
:02:42. > :02:47.for FGM, we hear from activist who is say parents are travelling to
:02:47. > :02:57.the UK specifically to get their daughters cut here. First, here is
:02:57. > :03:05.
:03:05. > :03:14.Sue Lloyd Roberts, her report Paris is a city which most ofs us
:03:14. > :03:16.associate with romance, love and sexual adventure. But for many of
:03:16. > :03:21.the country's African immigrant women, a cruel mutilation, carried
:03:21. > :03:30.out in the name of tradition, when they were children, has left them
:03:30. > :03:35.insensitive to such attractions. TRANSLATION: I realised things were
:03:35. > :03:39.not right with my sexuality, with my partner, and it was to do with
:03:39. > :03:43.the cutting. Fatou had already been mutilated when she came to Paris
:03:43. > :03:49.from the Ivory Coast as a child. Her clitoris had been removed,
:03:49. > :03:54.affecting her sex life, and the vaginal area sewn together, causing
:03:54. > :03:59.severe complication when she gave birth to her son. TRANSLATION:
:03:59. > :04:03.want to say to the people who do this to us that it can ruin your
:04:03. > :04:13.life, your happiness. It damages you psychologically, physically and
:04:13. > :04:25.
:04:25. > :04:29.sexually. Yasmin was born and mutilated in Paris. TRANSLATION:
:04:29. > :04:32.happened when I was very little. I was two or three years old in the
:04:32. > :04:37.apartment where I lived with my parents. I can't tell you how it
:04:37. > :04:41.was done, because I can't remember. But I can tell you one thing, I
:04:41. > :04:50.still wake up screaming with the same nightmare, of a bath tub
:04:50. > :04:59.filled with blood. It is possible that Yasmin might
:04:59. > :05:06.have been mutilated by Hawa, working as a practiceer in of FGM
:05:06. > :05:10.at the time. Does she know -- practitioner of FGM, does she know
:05:10. > :05:14.how many she cut? TRANSLATION: could I know, I'm not like the
:05:14. > :05:20.French and you, I don't write everything down. I started cutting
:05:20. > :05:23.because in Mali my grandmother did it, but she was ill, I was told to
:05:23. > :05:28.cut my niece, and then I continued here. I have seen a lot of girls
:05:28. > :05:34.cut here, many died. Even here, in this building, I have seen girls
:05:34. > :05:41.who got ill and lost a lot of blood. Now I discourage people from doing
:05:41. > :05:45.it. After years of practising her trade, the neighbours finally
:05:45. > :05:55.complained about the screaming that came from her flat, and called the
:05:55. > :06:03.
:06:03. > :06:08.police. In a trial which gripped the country, 13 years ago. Hawa was
:06:08. > :06:13.charged on 48 counts of cutting and sent to prison. In all, there have
:06:13. > :06:23.been some 100 such convictions in France. TRANSLATION: It is OK what
:06:23. > :06:38.
:06:38. > :06:42.they did to me, they had to send me to prison, they did their job.
:06:42. > :06:46.bears surprisingly little rancour after several years in jail, and
:06:46. > :06:54.was friendly with the lawyer who acted for the children in her trial,
:06:54. > :07:03.how come they are friends? TRANSLATION: The reason I trusted
:07:03. > :07:08.her is that she told the truth, and I like that. The law is the same
:07:08. > :07:13.for everybody. When a black child is hurt, it is exactly the same as
:07:13. > :07:19.if a white child is hurt, so the law, I wanted the law to be
:07:19. > :07:27.enforced, in order to protect children. They now campaign against
:07:27. > :07:30.FGM together. The lawyer believes that trials have helped, fewer
:07:31. > :07:37.cases are now coming to court. She dispayers that across the channel
:07:37. > :07:41.no-one has ever been -- despairs that across the channel no-one has
:07:41. > :07:48.been prosecuted. In Great Britain I heard that no-one had the guts to
:07:48. > :07:54.report that a little girl in that family, or that family has been cut.
:07:54. > :08:04.Either in Great Britain or either during holidays abroad. Why? That's
:08:04. > :08:08.
:08:08. > :08:15.the wonder. The French believe in total asimulation for their
:08:15. > :08:21.immigrants, who come mainly from Franco Africa, Senegal, Mali and
:08:22. > :08:26.the Ivory Coast. The French scoff at what they call "British cultural
:08:26. > :08:30.sensitivites". We have seen bans here on headscarves, burkas, forced
:08:31. > :08:35.marriage and female genital mutilation, of all, they say the
:08:35. > :08:39.last is most serious, French society simply will not accept the
:08:39. > :08:42.mutilation of children. All French mothers are expected to attend
:08:42. > :08:47.mother and child clinics for regular check-ups until the child
:08:47. > :08:56.is six years old. Where doctors have no inhibition about examining
:08:56. > :09:01.a girl's genitalia. TRANSLATION: After six years old, when we can no
:09:01. > :09:03.longer monitor girls here, we liaise with the school health
:09:03. > :09:13.inspector, who visit schools regularly, so they can check on
:09:13. > :09:14.
:09:14. > :09:18.girls from families considered most at risk. If we find a young woman
:09:18. > :09:28.who has been mutilated, we offer her medical and psychological
:09:28. > :09:29.
:09:29. > :09:34.support, and also surgery, if she wants. I will reconstruct the
:09:34. > :09:38.clitoris, the gland of the clitoris and put it in place, it takes
:09:38. > :09:43.approximately half an hour. This doctor operates on about 50 women a
:09:43. > :09:46.month. Women come from all over the world, including from the UK,
:09:46. > :09:56.though the majority are French immigrants. For them he operates
:09:56. > :09:56.
:09:56. > :09:59.for free, the state pays the cost. So, we are able to restore a normal
:09:59. > :10:03.living clitoris. Although the visible clitoris was cut from the
:10:03. > :10:09.women as a child, part of it remains in the body. The doctor can
:10:09. > :10:14.bring that to the surface. I will be able to restore the labia, the
:10:14. > :10:19.upper part of it, it is very important for intercourse to have a
:10:19. > :10:23.normal sexuality, and it is also very important for normal
:10:23. > :10:29.conditions of livery. It is not quite normal, but it is a good
:10:29. > :10:37.restoration. Fatou had the operation a few
:10:37. > :10:41.months ago. TRANSLATION: I feel a complete person, at last, after my
:10:42. > :10:51.operation. Now I need gradually to get to know my sexuality. This is
:10:52. > :11:06.
:11:06. > :11:16.what I'm doing now, and it's going The French approach to FGM is
:11:16. > :11:19.nothing if not thorough, in contrast to the UK. The director of
:11:19. > :11:25.an organisation that fights FGM here told me how she was tipped off
:11:25. > :11:35.by a family member of an ethnic community, who told her that two
:11:35. > :11:37.
:11:37. > :11:41.little girls were at risk of being taken to London. Someone of this
:11:42. > :11:51.community called our organisations to say the family have train
:11:51. > :11:57.tickets to take the Eurostar to go to London, two girls will go in a
:11:57. > :12:02.way to undergo FGM. We received the information on the Friday, and
:12:02. > :12:08.decided to put the girl on the train on Saturday, so it was a
:12:08. > :12:12.necessity to be very, very quick to do something. Why is London a
:12:12. > :12:17.preferred destination for your immigrant communities? In England
:12:17. > :12:23.you are very respectful about traditions of every community who
:12:23. > :12:29.lives in your country. In our country it is totally different,
:12:29. > :12:34.because when migrants arrive in France, they are having the
:12:34. > :12:43.necessity to integrate into our law, our traditions our everything like
:12:43. > :12:47.that. But it is hard to see how the French approach, such as routinely
:12:47. > :12:56.examining the sexual organs of little girls, could transfer easily
:12:56. > :13:06.to the UK. It is generally agreed that we need to toughen up. But
:13:06. > :13:11.
:13:11. > :13:15.more along the lines taken by The French argue that their "zero
:13:15. > :13:19.tolerance" approach towards FGM is working. But many would say it is
:13:19. > :13:25.too extreme. The British Government favour the Dutch model, which many
:13:25. > :13:29.would claim it is more respectful towards the ethnic communities. The
:13:29. > :13:34.difference in the Dutch approach, explains Zara, a spokesperson for
:13:34. > :13:39.the Somalis here, is that the Government consults with the ethnic
:13:39. > :13:42.communities. Routine examination of children was rejected, but the
:13:42. > :13:46.community asked for help to stop the many mutilations which take
:13:46. > :13:52.place, when a child goes with her parents back to their country of
:13:52. > :13:56.origin for a holiday. We have something in our hand, because the
:13:56. > :14:00.pressure from the family back home is very high. They now have these
:14:00. > :14:05.travel documents, which parents who don't want to mutilate their
:14:05. > :14:14.daughters can take with them. is a document which is signed by
:14:14. > :14:19.the minister of health, the minister and it is a Government
:14:19. > :14:23.document, and it shows them we are helping our families back home
:14:23. > :14:29.financially, no-one wants their children to go to prison.
:14:29. > :14:34.The documents are helping, she says, along with anti-FGM publicity. But
:14:34. > :14:38.many parents who still believe in FGM are moving to Britain. More
:14:38. > :14:44.than 10,000 Somalis move to the UK in the last few years, because
:14:44. > :14:49.there is no information, there is no campaign. Although FGM is not
:14:49. > :14:53.legal in the UK, but still the people are doing it underground. So
:14:53. > :15:03.even so many people from other European countries they are going
:15:03. > :15:04.
:15:04. > :15:07.to the UK and they are circumcising their daughters there.
:15:07. > :15:17.Activists in Holland and France claim that parents who want to
:15:17. > :15:18.
:15:18. > :15:21.mutilate their daughters are coming to the UK. They ask that we
:15:21. > :15:28.urgently reinforce the message against FGM on our side of the
:15:28. > :15:31.channel. Today a petition was presented to
:15:31. > :15:35.the Home Office Minister, Lynne Featherstone, signed by over 70,000
:15:35. > :15:38.people, calling on the Government to find and prosecute those
:15:39. > :15:44.responsible for mutilating women and girls in the UK. She joins us
:15:44. > :15:48.now. Along with the former model and human rights campaigner, Waris
:15:48. > :15:52.Dirie, Baroness Ruth Rendell, the French lawyer, Weil-Curiel cushion
:15:52. > :15:57.and Omer Ahmed from the Council of Somali Organisations. Also here are
:15:57. > :16:02.Dr Comfort Momoh, the UK expert on FGM, and an audience of students
:16:02. > :16:07.involved with the charity Integrate Bristol, which campaigns to prevent
:16:07. > :16:17.FGM in the UK. You had this done when you were five years old, I
:16:17. > :16:18.
:16:18. > :16:23.just wondered what affect that has had on you? What affect? I'm not
:16:23. > :16:29.quite understanding what affect it changes your life. Did it?
:16:29. > :16:34.changes your life forever from that moment on. And nothing quite seemed
:16:34. > :16:41.the same. Like that little girl just said, physically, mentally,
:16:42. > :16:46.sexually, spiritually you are bankrupt. You just, you know, not
:16:46. > :16:51.only that, there are a lot of complication and sickness comes
:16:51. > :16:56.with it. You have health problems? All the way through, yes. Where was
:16:56. > :17:05.the pressure to do it? You were a little girl, was it a family thing?
:17:05. > :17:10.Yes, it was right in my mother's lap, unfortunately. Like you will
:17:10. > :17:16.hear it, a million times, it was just a normal thing for these
:17:16. > :17:20.people who practice it, these families. You, as a child, trust in
:17:20. > :17:24.your own parents, thinking whatever they do they are doing it right, or
:17:24. > :17:26.they are doing good, you don't really know what is going on.
:17:26. > :17:30.have heard some people say, my mother did it because she really
:17:30. > :17:37.loved me, and she thought it was a good thing, and my grandmother had
:17:37. > :17:43.it, and my great-grand mother s that true? It is a true fact, sad
:17:43. > :17:50.to say, it is. You can say, I ask you this, I can tell you this, that
:17:50. > :17:54.I have a little daughter that I adopted from Somali that I wanted
:17:54. > :17:59.to save from this mutilation two years ago. Two days ago I asked her
:17:59. > :18:04.how she feels about this, I explained it for two years I teach
:18:04. > :18:11.her, she looked at me and said I would have done it without no fight,
:18:11. > :18:14.I would have had to accept it. So that's what it is for the child.
:18:14. > :18:19.it the women within the Somali community demanding this rather
:18:19. > :18:23.than the men, is there pressure from men to do it? Fathers?
:18:23. > :18:28.Historically it would have been some historical support for that
:18:28. > :18:32.within the male community. But in the UK certainly not. This is
:18:32. > :18:38.almost entirely driven by women, there isn't demand, it is not
:18:38. > :18:43.supported by the male population. It is, in fact, always condemned,
:18:43. > :18:47.it is condemned in the mosques. There is no Koranic justification
:18:47. > :18:53.for it, it is not a Muslim thing? It is a cultural practice, I think
:18:53. > :18:57.Imams have been on TV, and in posks, and have stressed that point --
:18:58. > :19:01.mosques and stressed that point. There is now theological
:19:01. > :19:05.justification. It is a cultural thing in the Somali community, even
:19:05. > :19:10.in the UK, even though you say it is completely abhorrent to you?
:19:10. > :19:13.only is it that, it is important to get it into context, it is
:19:13. > :19:17.extremely minute proportion of the Somali community that may still
:19:18. > :19:23.practice this. How do you know that, that is certainly not we are
:19:23. > :19:30.hearing. We will go to the figures in a empt mo, how do you know it is
:19:30. > :19:33.a minute proportion, people -- in a moment, how do you know it is a mew
:19:33. > :19:39.newt proportion? 20 years ago it was much more prevalent, I'm trying
:19:39. > :19:42.to get across that over a period of time, through education, that has
:19:42. > :19:47.actually reduced, the prevalence of it has reduced significantly. You
:19:47. > :19:51.know I wouldn't say how do I know, from being in the community, my
:19:51. > :19:55.contacts within the community, but also contacts in the health service
:19:55. > :20:01.suggests the prevalence is reducing significantly. I come to Dr Comfort
:20:01. > :20:05.Momoh, you treat people after this has happened, I wonder what the
:20:06. > :20:10.health consequences were, sort of things you see? We see lots of
:20:10. > :20:15.women with complication, immediate complication such as heamorrhage
:20:15. > :20:19.that occurs, excessive bleeding. What we see with the pregnant women
:20:19. > :20:26.that we see, they present with infertility problems, which is
:20:26. > :20:33.related to infection over a period of time. They have inclusions cysts,
:20:34. > :20:36.or they have recurring urinry tract infection, as well as vaginal
:20:37. > :20:41.infection, period pain. And when they get married, to achieve
:20:41. > :20:46.penetration will take a long time, and they have the emotional and the
:20:46. > :20:49.psychological problems. There is physical, emotional, psychological,
:20:49. > :20:55.sexual, basically every problem. Yes. I suppose you can't put a
:20:55. > :21:01.figure on it, do you see more of it, a lot of it? I see more. I disagree
:21:02. > :21:05.with Omarn the sense that, we still -- Omar, in the sense that we still
:21:05. > :21:11.see a significant number of women and girls here in the UK. At my
:21:11. > :21:18.clinic we see about 400 women and girls with FGM-related problems. To
:21:18. > :21:22.me this is significant, and that's why we need to have a proper data,
:21:22. > :21:27.we need more research in terms of getting proper figures here in the
:21:27. > :21:32.UK. Let me ask you those of you who have helped us so much with the
:21:32. > :21:36.research here. I wonder what pressure you feel, some young women
:21:36. > :21:39.in your community feel from parents and others to have this down, you
:21:40. > :21:45.were very outspoken yesterday, do you hear about a lot of pressure to
:21:45. > :21:50.have this done? Most girls that are born here will think whatever my
:21:50. > :21:54.parents say is right. But I guess most of us have grown up with this
:21:54. > :21:58.mentality now where we're thinking no we are hafrpling our own bodies,
:21:58. > :22:01.and -- harming our own bodies and we shouldn't be doing. That now
:22:01. > :22:05.parents are more understanding. They don't have so much pressure
:22:05. > :22:08.under them compared to going back to Africa, for example, they
:22:08. > :22:12.probably feel so much more pressure that they have to mutilate their
:22:12. > :22:16.girls. Here they have far more freedom. They feel that here they
:22:16. > :22:20.can protect their girls easier. But, saying that, not enough is being
:22:20. > :22:24.done to protect these girls. The Government has no statistics. Omar
:22:24. > :22:28.over there says there is a minority that are practising it, and Comfort
:22:28. > :22:32.Momoh says she sees an increasing number of girls coming into her
:22:32. > :22:38.clinics. But there are no statistics, this is where the NHS
:22:38. > :22:44.is going wrong in this country. Anybody else want to come in on
:22:44. > :22:47.that? Do you hear a lot about it, do people talk about it a lot more?
:22:47. > :22:52.If you have FGM done you wouldn't really want to talk about it, you
:22:52. > :22:56.feel it is embarrassing. You are not normal. You think like oh that
:22:56. > :22:58.person it going to think I'm not normal any more. You keep it to
:22:58. > :23:05.yourself, you don't tell anyone about it. The doctors, they might
:23:06. > :23:10.not even know about it. They look for FGM type 3, they don't think
:23:10. > :23:16.type 1 is that important. What is that, more serious complication
:23:16. > :23:26.with type 3? Type 3 is where they get all of it done, type 1 is more
:23:26. > :23:30.common, and type 2 as well. Anybody else there? They don't really talk
:23:30. > :23:33.about it, especially when they have it done, they are scared that the
:23:33. > :23:37.doctors, or whoever they talk to about it, they don't really know
:23:37. > :23:41.what they are doing, they are losing faith in the NHS, or if they
:23:41. > :23:44.talk to a teacher, like if they confide in a teacher, they are
:23:44. > :23:47.losing confidence in the teacher, because they don't know what they
:23:47. > :23:51.are talking about. If the people were educated and know what types
:23:51. > :23:54.of FGM there are, and what it is, and the complication and
:23:54. > :23:58.implications of having it done are, then they are more likely to come
:23:58. > :24:01.out and speak out about having the procedure done. But if people don't
:24:01. > :24:08.know about it, no-one is going to talk about it, they will be like,
:24:08. > :24:12.OK, this has happened to me, no-one else has had it done.
:24:12. > :24:17.Lynne Featherstone, why are there no statistics, why does nobody
:24:17. > :24:20.collect figures on this? Firstly, let me say, this is an abhorrent
:24:20. > :24:24.practice, it is an abusive practice. While you say we turn a blind eye,
:24:24. > :24:27.actually that is not the truth. As soon as we came into Government we
:24:27. > :24:32.published an action plan a call to end violence against women and
:24:32. > :24:37.girls, which includes a whole section on FGM, it is a huge issue.
:24:37. > :24:41.But you don't know how big? don't know how big, but we are
:24:41. > :24:46.looking at how we may begin to get statistics. Data from the National
:24:46. > :24:49.Health Service has always been an issue in the sense that if people
:24:49. > :24:52.come there is an issue about if they think they are going to be
:24:52. > :24:56.reported, or if anything will be done, they may not present when
:24:56. > :25:00.they have complication. It is cultural sensitivites as we heard
:25:00. > :25:04.from some of our French interviewees? The health service
:25:04. > :25:10.has always said treat someone first, it is the same as if you are
:25:10. > :25:14.attacked with a knife. If it is a case of paedophilia, you have a
:25:14. > :25:17.responsibility to the charge, this is abuse? It is safeguarding issue.
:25:17. > :25:22.They report paedophilia, but not this? They should report it, and
:25:22. > :25:26.the police should take it seriously, they have a duty of safeguarding,
:25:26. > :25:29.local councils have a duty. There has not been a single prosecution?
:25:29. > :25:32.Indeed, that is over 25 years, we have been in Government two years,
:25:32. > :25:35.and we are taking action. We are moving forward. When you say there
:25:35. > :25:40.is not a single prosecution, we have heard from the girls and from
:25:40. > :25:44.others on the film, how difficult it is to get people to come forward.
:25:44. > :25:47.It would help if the authorities, if they feel they are taken
:25:47. > :25:50.seriously, if there isn't this cultural sensitivity and you do
:25:50. > :25:54.something about it? I am doing something about it T I agree, I
:25:54. > :25:58.think there has been, in general, in the past, an overcautious
:25:58. > :26:01.approach to reporting, and I'm holding a Round Table actually with
:26:01. > :26:07.the police and the health authorities in October to discuss
:26:07. > :26:11.this very part of this issue. have campaigned on this for a long
:26:11. > :26:15.time, Ruth Rendell, I wonder how big a problem you think it is now,
:26:15. > :26:21.and why we don't have these statistics. We have statistics on
:26:21. > :26:25.all kinds of other things? I have campaigned for about 12 years. I
:26:25. > :26:29.have made many speeches in the House of Lords, instituted many
:26:29. > :26:35.debates, asked questions, I have asked the Government to set up a
:26:35. > :26:39.national register, to record everybody who has seen to have FGM,
:26:39. > :26:47.so it can be noted. I have suggested to the them that all
:26:47. > :26:51.teachers should undergo a course so that they could spot children who,
:26:51. > :26:55.they could detect a childlikely to be on a holiday at this time of
:26:55. > :27:04.year, to be taken out of this country, to the Horn of Africa, on
:27:04. > :27:08.a kould holiday. To stop T I have - - called holiday. To stop it. I
:27:08. > :27:12.have alerted the Government to how bad it is. They don't seem to be
:27:12. > :27:17.listening, Lynne Featherstone says they are listening now? I don't
:27:17. > :27:21.think they have listened. Just a second. Why haven't they been
:27:21. > :27:25.listening, and in what way? I wish I knew, I have asked them and even
:27:25. > :27:30.had promises of setting up various committees and so on to look into
:27:30. > :27:34.it. In all that time I have never had any response of that kind.
:27:34. > :27:37.minister is here? In terms, I think you are absolutely right, the
:27:37. > :27:41.summer holiday are a very dangerous time, and last year the police were
:27:41. > :27:46.at the airports intervening with families with girls going to those
:27:46. > :27:50.countries. I have also, last week, had my officials, in Africa,
:27:50. > :27:53.talking to counsuls from every consular place across Africa to
:27:53. > :27:56.give them the information and leaflets and guidance that is
:27:56. > :28:00.practice, to put it up so people coming for visas will have some
:28:00. > :28:05.information, and know that it is illegal in this country. So we are
:28:05. > :28:10.taking action. What do you think about that? I really don't
:28:10. > :28:15.understand what's going on with the Government. What they plan is, and
:28:15. > :28:20.the truth, the plain truth is they don't give a damn. That is
:28:20. > :28:26.ridiculous. I was there 15 years ago, in the house of parliament, I
:28:26. > :28:33.spoke about this, I wrote a book, there is movies, there is nothing
:28:33. > :28:36.changed. So I don't know what you do. Sorry. I want to talk a little
:28:36. > :28:39.bit about what is happening in France, why is France different, is
:28:39. > :28:44.it just different culturally because this is the way you are,
:28:44. > :28:54.and you are less culturally sensitive to ethnic minorities?
:28:54. > :28:54.
:28:54. > :29:04.Maybe, I feel the channel is really wide now. Why is it different? We
:29:04. > :29:08.are very careful of the health of little children. We have asked
:29:08. > :29:15.doctors to show the parents, the mothers, who come to the family
:29:15. > :29:19.centres, how a little girl is made. How are their sexual parts, and the
:29:19. > :29:23.use that the girl will have for this. They do it naturally for the
:29:23. > :29:27.boys. They check their three pieces, you know, little things. To make
:29:27. > :29:31.sure it is all there. Make sure, every time. Systematically.
:29:31. > :29:36.girls, do you think it is an education problem. You also have a
:29:36. > :29:42.big stick, people can go to prison as we have seen for this, and they
:29:42. > :29:47.do? It is the doctor's duty to inform the authority, the
:29:47. > :29:54.prosecutor, if he notices that the child has been hurt, in any way,
:29:54. > :29:58.beaten black and blue, broken arm, sexually abused, sexually mutilated.
:29:58. > :30:05.Do parents ever object and say no, we don't want our children to be
:30:05. > :30:08.exampled? Of course not. They couldn't, it is for the child's
:30:08. > :30:14.sake. Lynne Featherstone can we do that here? I don't think that would
:30:14. > :30:18.be acceptable here, I think it is incredibly intrusive. I would not
:30:18. > :30:22.want my daughter examined annually before the age of six, I wouldn't
:30:22. > :30:26.want her examined every time she came back from abroad, her
:30:26. > :30:29.genitalia to be examined. However, we are following, as we saw in the
:30:29. > :30:33.film, we are following the Dutch route with an equivalent to the
:30:33. > :30:36.Dutch health passport, which we will be trialing later this year,
:30:36. > :30:41.which actually does pretty much what you saw in the film, and
:30:41. > :30:45.actually gives them a piece of paper when they go to countries to
:30:45. > :30:49.be mutilated, which says, this is illegal, you are breaking the law,
:30:49. > :30:53.even if you it is done in another country. It is happening here, that
:30:53. > :30:56.is part of the problem? I was interested in your film, I haven't
:30:56. > :31:01.heard about this tourism for mutilation before your film tonight.
:31:01. > :31:06.I would very much like anyone who knows people coming to this country,
:31:06. > :31:10.for goodness sake, inform us, we don't have this information.
:31:10. > :31:14.that point about explanations and, you know, you said about who do you
:31:14. > :31:17.tell, do you talk to a teacher and so on. Would you or anybody you
:31:17. > :31:21.know object to those kinds of things, would it be OK if it was
:31:21. > :31:24.done at school, with a doctor, like the one sitting next to you, would
:31:24. > :31:28.you object? I don't understand why anyone would object. When you are
:31:28. > :31:31.older you are going to be looked at any way, you will have the smear
:31:31. > :31:34.test done. What's the problem having it done when you are younger,
:31:34. > :31:38.just being looked at. It is not like you are being sexually abused
:31:38. > :31:41.or anything. You are making sure everything is fine and there is no
:31:41. > :31:45.complication, and there is nothing wrong with you. It is helping you
:31:45. > :31:50.in the long run, I don't understand why there is an objection to having
:31:50. > :31:53.someone examine you, especially when it is a qualified doctor.
:31:54. > :31:58.Providing it is a qualified doctor. What do you think about it? I think
:31:58. > :32:02.it is, you know, when you are examining a child, you are thinking
:32:02. > :32:06.about their safety, no the fact that this is too culturally
:32:06. > :32:08.sensitive, this is a child's life at risk. About the prosecutions,
:32:09. > :32:13.the Sunday Times did a quick investigation and they quickly
:32:13. > :32:16.found about four people who are willing to mutilate girls, police
:32:16. > :32:20.officers could have done that very easily, the Government could have
:32:20. > :32:24.helped them, they haven't. Do you accept, you are putting everything
:32:24. > :32:27.on the Government, I will come back to the minister in a second, there
:32:27. > :32:31.is obviously a responsibility in the community, it might demand some
:32:31. > :32:35.girls, your age or younger, having to testify about their parents,
:32:35. > :32:38.about somebody who does this to them, about their grandparents,
:32:38. > :32:43.that is really difficult? The thing is the Government are not helping
:32:43. > :32:46.these girls, the community are the perpetrators, with any other form
:32:46. > :32:52.of abuse, the community wouldn't be asked to deal with the subject.
:32:52. > :32:55.When it comes to FGM the community have to deal with it, that is wrong.
:32:55. > :32:59.This is abuse. It is important to recognise when the doctor, for
:32:59. > :33:05.example, says we are picking up increasing numbers of women coming
:33:05. > :33:10.to clinics, that is actually a good thing. That shows that the NHS is
:33:10. > :33:14.working and picking these issues up. It also tells you something about
:33:14. > :33:19.the statistics. You ask where are the statistics coming from, what
:33:19. > :33:25.you are actually seeing is today the younger generation, those who
:33:25. > :33:29.are being, have undergone FGM, back in Somalia, who are now reaching
:33:30. > :33:32.their 20s and 30s, now facing these complication, who are now
:33:32. > :33:35.increasingly turning to the NHS. I think some of the points that Lynn
:33:35. > :33:40.made about the work the Government is doing. The Government has done a
:33:41. > :33:45.lot of work, I think probably testament to the efforts of the
:33:45. > :33:52.Baroness. But the CPS have very rigorous guidelines to their
:33:52. > :33:56.prosecutors in terms of spotting FGM and how to tackle it. They are
:33:57. > :34:01.so rigorous they haven't tackled a single one. The French prosecutors
:34:01. > :34:07.who have rigorous guidelines managed to spot 100. With respect
:34:07. > :34:11.if we take the approach, the idea that you could, and I'm totally
:34:11. > :34:16.with Lynn on this h the idea that you would some how forcibly, there
:34:16. > :34:21.is no issue of choice here, take children randomly, whom you are
:34:21. > :34:26.identifying by their race, we will not say that, we will say we will
:34:26. > :34:31.identify them by virtue of their risk factors. We are talk about by
:34:31. > :34:36.their race. It is not forcible? at all. People can object if they
:34:36. > :34:41.want? They correction but why should they? The doctor is there to
:34:41. > :34:44.take care of the child. Do you accept there is a degree of
:34:44. > :34:48.profiling, in other words, you are not saying it to Polish immigrants
:34:48. > :34:53.or Chinese immigrants, you are looking at certain ethnic groups?
:34:53. > :35:00.Not at all, we are asking the doctors to examine any child, they
:35:00. > :35:04.all deserve the same service. has to be every child. Of course.
:35:04. > :35:10.There aren't going to be so many going to that particular part of
:35:10. > :35:13.the world, under a certain age. But obviously you cannot select
:35:13. > :35:17.children according to race. That can't be, but it can be children,
:35:17. > :35:20.as you were saying, Chinese, whatever it is, all children.
:35:20. > :35:25.minister, you heard some of the girls saying, it is their personal
:35:25. > :35:29.views, they wouldn't have a problem with it, they don't see why anybody
:35:29. > :35:32.would. The bigger issue in the prosecution sense, it is very, very
:35:32. > :35:35.difficult to get girls to come forward and give evidence. There
:35:35. > :35:39.has been training for prosecutors, we are actually having a year's
:35:39. > :35:42.worth of referrals that didn't get to court analysed to see why they
:35:42. > :35:45.have fallen down. People used to say this about rape, you know,
:35:45. > :35:48.there was a difficulty about getting people to come forward.
:35:48. > :35:51.What's the difficulty. It is a matter for the authorities? As I
:35:51. > :35:55.said, I'm holding this meeting in October, with police and health
:35:55. > :36:00.authorities, to see how we can move forward on this. But, you know,
:36:00. > :36:03.prosecution, we prosecute rape, and we prosecute theft, and it hasn't
:36:03. > :36:09.stopped rape or theft, unfortunately. This is about, in
:36:09. > :36:14.the end, a huge change, a huge shift. I waent to Ethiopia recently,
:36:14. > :36:19.on -- I went to Ethiopia recently on a mission to tackle violence
:36:20. > :36:28.against women and met with them there tackling FGM, very prevalent
:36:29. > :36:31.in those countries they are using different things to tackle whole
:36:31. > :36:35.communities and it is much more productive. Do you think there is
:36:35. > :36:40.an issue within communities, you are showing us by being here and
:36:40. > :36:42.making the film. I ask, who are you trying to protect, the parents or
:36:42. > :36:46.the kids. Obviously if the parents have something to hide, they will
:36:46. > :36:50.say to you, no, we don't want our child to be examined. You want the
:36:50. > :37:00.child's safety to be first, so you should be thinking about that, not
:37:00. > :37:04.what the parents say. I absolutely agree. This is a child's life here,
:37:04. > :37:07.upsetting the parents, you think be about upsetting the parents, and
:37:07. > :37:11.probably insulting them. If this was any other form of abuse, would
:37:11. > :37:14.you be thinking about upsetting the parents, you would be thinking
:37:14. > :37:17.about the child's life first. you think your generation is
:37:17. > :37:20.different, and you are standing up and saying what you think in a very
:37:20. > :37:24.clear way, this is a cultural practice that we will not see in
:37:24. > :37:29.the future do you think? generation is different, we were
:37:30. > :37:32.educated, they were told, you know, the harmful effects of FGM, some of
:37:32. > :37:35.our great-grand parents or grandparents, they didn't have
:37:35. > :37:38.these opportunities. But schools are still not doing enough to
:37:38. > :37:42.protect these girls. Do you think it is time, though, for British
:37:42. > :37:47.schools, British people, to assert British values. This is clearly
:37:47. > :37:52.unacceptable in this country? Absolutely. We mustn't tip toe
:37:52. > :37:57.around it? There has been far too much sensitivity, we can't tip toe
:37:57. > :38:02.around it. These girls are the hope for the future. I met with
:38:02. > :38:06.Integrate Bristol a few weeks ago, they are fiercesome. They made a
:38:06. > :38:09.film, The Silent Scream, that was your film, truly remarkable. You
:38:09. > :38:18.yourselves said, did you not, that your whole community turned on you
:38:18. > :38:22.for actually having the bravery to speak out. I'm trying to indicate
:38:22. > :38:25.how very difficult it is within the community. Are you encouraged by
:38:25. > :38:32.what you have heard over here? I was with them, I helped them all
:38:32. > :38:37.the way I can. And I will. Yes I'm with them, and what they do is what
:38:37. > :38:41.everybody should do, not just them. Starting with the Government of the
:38:41. > :38:45.place. Thank you very much. Now, the names
:38:45. > :38:48.of Hollywood stars, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie were read out
:38:48. > :38:53.alongside those from football, Wayne Rooney and Sven-Goran
:38:53. > :38:58.Eriksson, joining them on the list was the murdered schoolgirl of
:38:58. > :39:03.Milly Dowler. The role call, unconnected, was the crime of phone
:39:03. > :39:06.hacking. Eight people, including the former Downing Street
:39:06. > :39:10.communications chief, Andy Coulson, and former newspaper chief, Rebekah
:39:10. > :39:16.Brooks, would be charged in relation to hacking of voicemails.
:39:16. > :39:23.After months of investigations, the dodgy practices of newspapers and
:39:23. > :39:27.their links with political leaders will come to trial.
:39:27. > :39:31.Justice appears in various eulogises, today it came in the
:39:31. > :39:35.form of Alison Levitt of the Crown Prosecution Service. Tremulous in
:39:35. > :39:42.tone, yet certain in their purpose. This was the culmination of 19
:39:43. > :39:51.months of police investigations. The eight who will be charged are,
:39:51. > :39:55.Rebekah Brooks, Andy Coulson, Stuart Kuttner, Glenn Mulcaire,
:39:55. > :40:02.Greg Miskiw, Ian Edmondson mond, Neville Thurlbeck and James
:40:02. > :40:08.Weatherup. They will face a total of 19 charges in all.
:40:08. > :40:11.Once a private investigator, mull mull, others senior editoral
:40:11. > :40:16.figures at News of the World. All charged with conspiring to hack the
:40:16. > :40:20.phone of more than 600 people, over a period of six years. The alleged
:40:20. > :40:25.victims range from Paul McCartney to Angelina Jolie, John Prescott
:40:25. > :40:30.and David Blunkett, to the murdered Milly Dowler. The ramifications are
:40:30. > :40:34.enormous, with two of those charged, both former editors, having enjoyed
:40:34. > :40:40.close relationships with the Prime Minister. Rebekah Brooks was David
:40:40. > :40:43.Cameron's personal friend, while Andy Coulson was a righthandman.
:40:43. > :40:47.After resigning from the News of the World, Andy Coulson was
:40:47. > :40:51.appointed Mr Cameron's communications director. Like so
:40:51. > :40:55.many others embroiled in this scandal, both Cameron and Coulson
:40:55. > :40:59.have given evidence to the Leveson Inquiry, which, by coincidence,
:40:59. > :41:04.listeneded today. Last month at Leveson, David Cameron was asked
:41:04. > :41:06.why he had employed Andy Coulson. He had left his last job after
:41:06. > :41:13.resigning because of the things that happened. That was, obviously,
:41:13. > :41:17.as I have said in my evidence, I was giving him a second chance. The
:41:17. > :41:22.second reason, it was, there was controversy, is this was a tabloid
:41:22. > :41:27.editor. Leveson also heard from the man who recommended Coulson to
:41:27. > :41:32.Cameron, the Chancellor, George Osborne. I would suggest to you
:41:32. > :41:35.that everything that's happened since, no-one has ever mounted a
:41:35. > :41:39.serious complaint about the way he was, the Director of Communications
:41:39. > :41:42.for the Conservative Party, or subsequently for the Government.
:41:42. > :41:48.This afternoon Andy Coulson emerged from his home to declare his anger
:41:48. > :41:54.at now facing five criminal charges. I'm obviously extremely
:41:54. > :41:56.disappointed by the CPS decision today. I will fight these
:41:56. > :42:00.allegations, when they eventually get to court. But I would like to
:42:01. > :42:04.say one thing today about the Milly Dowler allegations. Anyone who
:42:04. > :42:08.knows me, or who has worked with me, will know that I wouldn't, more
:42:08. > :42:12.importantly, that I didn't, do anything to damage the Milly Dowler
:42:12. > :42:16.investigation. Rebekah Brooks issued a statement saying she was
:42:16. > :42:21.innocent and angry. At Leveson, the Prime Minister had been asked about
:42:21. > :42:25.country suppers with Brooks, and why she had once texted him before
:42:25. > :42:29.a speech, saying "professionally, we're in this together". We were,
:42:29. > :42:33.as she put it, friends, but professionally me as leader of the
:42:33. > :42:38.Conservative Party, her in newspapers, we were going to be
:42:38. > :42:44.pushing the same political agenda. For the Prime Minister, questions
:42:44. > :42:50.over his judgment will continue, while his friend face charges which
:42:50. > :42:53.carry two-year jail terms. Allegra Stratton is here, does this remain
:42:53. > :42:57.slightly awkward for the Prime Minister? It is awkward, it is
:42:57. > :43:02.inconvenient. You have a sunny day, a day with the Olympics approaching,
:43:02. > :43:07.and a day where he had three former prime ministers of all the two
:43:07. > :43:09.different parties in Downing Street, and yet he's reminded of this
:43:09. > :43:14.incredibly uncomfortable problem on his doorstep. It is something that
:43:14. > :43:18.doesn't go away. Today we had an indication from both Rebekah Brooks
:43:18. > :43:23.and Andy Coulson that they intend to fight the charges incredibly
:43:23. > :43:26.fiercesomely. And that sense that it will be long, and keep on going.
:43:26. > :43:29.You have a Prime Minister trying to go into the middle part of this
:43:29. > :43:34.parliament, with some confidence. Now he knows that's going to have a
:43:34. > :43:38.very long trial going on in the background. Does it have the
:43:38. > :43:42.capacity to hurt him, or is it just that kind of irritation factor?
:43:42. > :43:47.Another thing we learned today suggests it does. The Milly Dowler
:43:47. > :43:51.case was the reason why he called for a public inquiry, and the Milly
:43:51. > :43:55.Dowler case has been name checked as a reason why these individuals
:43:55. > :43:58.are being charged. It is the exact link that has now been made, that
:43:58. > :44:02.is the problem. It was the Milly Dowler case that turned this into
:44:02. > :44:06.an issue that people cared about, because it involved normal people,
:44:06. > :44:11.rather than involving celebrities who are, in some ways normal, but
:44:11. > :44:17.in some ways not. Let's have a quick look at tomorrow morning's
:44:17. > :44:27.front pages, the Times has Boris Johnson saying he pays cash for odd
:44:27. > :44:28.
:44:28. > :45:08.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 40 seconds
:45:08. > :45:16.jobs, unlike the Government That's all from Newsnight tonight,
:45:16. > :45:21.we leave you with three-year-old Sophia Dickson from louk borrow,
:45:21. > :45:25.whose wall climbing skills have gained her a place on YouTube, and
:45:25. > :45:35.maybe a place in the Olympics. can do it, I can do it, I can do
:45:35. > :45:42.
:45:42. > :45:47.it! I can do this, I can do it, I can do it!
:45:47. > :45:53.# I want to be a man, man cub # And stroll right into town
:45:53. > :46:02.# And be just like the other men # I'm tired of mugging around
:46:02. > :46:06.Good evening, another hot day in southern areas, with the highest
:46:06. > :46:09.temperature of the year recorded. More sunshine to come through the
:46:09. > :46:13.day on Wednesday, across the southern half of the UK. Our
:46:13. > :46:17.weather front, that has been bringing cloud and rain is going to
:46:17. > :46:20.fizzle away, by Wednesday afternoon we have a good deal of sunshine
:46:20. > :46:24.across parts of northern England. The very small risk of a light
:46:24. > :46:29.shower across the north and Midlands, for most it will be a dry
:46:29. > :46:34.day. We might get to 31 or 32 degrees across the south-east
:46:34. > :46:38.corner. Cooler and fresher around the coast, with sea breezes
:46:39. > :46:43.developing. Moving further inland you will see the heat. Cloud in
:46:43. > :46:47.Wales, but another fine, dry day on Wednesday. For Northern Ireland
:46:47. > :46:52.much brighter, sunshine around, temperatures climbing to the mid-
:46:52. > :46:55.to-high teens, across Scotland, again a good deal of dry, bright
:46:55. > :47:01.weather, cloudier around the Aberdeen coastline. Temperatures in
:47:01. > :47:03.Inverness reaching highs of 18 degrees, 19 in Edinburgh, with well
:47:03. > :47:07.broken cloud giving sunshine. We may start to see the cloud
:47:07. > :47:09.increasing through the day on Thursday. Keeping the sunshine on
:47:09. > :47:14.Bristol, where temperatures on Wednesday and Thursday will reach
:47:14. > :47:17.the high 20, well above average for the time of year. You will see the