:00:13. > :00:16.When will the British economy start growing again? Don't ask me and
:00:16. > :00:21.don't ask the Governor of the Bank of England either. I don't think
:00:21. > :00:25.we're in any position to forecast what will happen in the euro area,
:00:25. > :00:28.and therefore, we're in no position of what will happen in the UK we
:00:28. > :00:31.have no forecasts. Could the economy get a lift from all that
:00:32. > :00:36.Olympic goodwill. We will ask four people at the sharp end, whether
:00:36. > :00:41.there will be long-term dividend from the games. Also tonight, the
:00:41. > :00:45.consensual sexual acts that landed a barrister in court. We will hear
:00:45. > :00:53.from prosecutors, and ask the prosecuted, whether he feels
:00:53. > :01:03.persecuted. At a special report from a city where heroin is cheaper
:01:03. > :01:05.
:01:05. > :01:09.than chood. -- food. The Governor of the Bank of England,
:01:09. > :01:13.Sir David King, mindful not everyone will wade through every
:01:13. > :01:18.painch of the bank's quarterly report, is focusing on something we
:01:18. > :01:23.all understand, the weather.' year ago he said the economy was
:01:23. > :01:30.navigating rough waters, and storm clouds continued to roll role in
:01:30. > :01:40.from the euro area, then it was had he winds, and choppy water, in May
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :01:43.it was strong head winds, and then it was choppy waters continuing to
:01:44. > :01:49.roll in. A woman ran the bank earlier, and said there was a
:01:49. > :01:53.Hurricane on the way, apparently. Don't worry, there isn't. Weren't
:01:53. > :02:02.the Olympics supposed to make the economy stronger, if not faster and
:02:02. > :02:05.higher. Zero growth, why? That zero growth is the bleakest of all
:02:05. > :02:09.projections from anyone, zero is as bad as anyone thought it would be
:02:09. > :02:14.in 2012, it is for the whole year. A year ago we thought it would be
:02:14. > :02:20.2%, that is where all that head wind stuff came from Mervyn King.
:02:20. > :02:25.One odd quarter down or up, it doesn't matter to macro-economics,
:02:25. > :02:29.what matters is the size of the economy. This is the graph Mervyn
:02:29. > :02:34.King obsesses about. This red line shows you the UK economy, since
:02:34. > :02:39.2008 it has been smaller, it hasn't managed to struggle back, even on
:02:39. > :02:42.the day Lehmans went bust, and in the yellow zone, the projection, we
:02:42. > :02:52.find under new zero growth this year, that the British economy
:02:52. > :02:55.doesn't come back to its old size until mid-20 20 20, that is eight
:02:55. > :02:59.years. This is the central prodetection, Mervyn King, because
:02:59. > :03:04.of Europe, doesn't think you can put an accurate figure on that red
:03:04. > :03:07.line at all. I don't think we are in any
:03:07. > :03:11.position to forecast what will happen in the euro area, therefore,
:03:11. > :03:15.we are in no position to make any accurate forecast of what will
:03:15. > :03:20.happen in the UK. I don't think anyone else is either, to be honest.
:03:20. > :03:24.That is immensely reassuring to us all, what can he do about this?
:03:24. > :03:31.is very clear, He made a big signal today, that there is more quanative
:03:31. > :03:35.easing to come, we have had �357 billion already, and there is
:03:35. > :03:41.funding for lending �80 billion for the banks. The Government talked
:03:41. > :03:45.about this today, in the space of a year they pumped �125 billion into
:03:45. > :03:49.the economy, only �35 billion became money in people's pockets,
:03:49. > :03:54.why not? Because the banks are standing in the way. The �80
:03:54. > :03:58.billion, it is clear will become bank profit. Because of this, the
:03:58. > :04:02.governor was pressed by journalists if there were more radical things
:04:02. > :04:09.to do, one journalist sad why not buy the debt from the British
:04:09. > :04:13.economy and write it off? Could they do that? They could do that.
:04:13. > :04:17.Instead of saying over my dead body, he didn't say. That I was intrigued
:04:17. > :04:22.by that, I'm not the only one sitting in the press conference who
:04:22. > :04:26.was intrigue bid it. There may be more radical action. The earliest
:04:26. > :04:33.thing is another interest rate cut, probably to actual zero. Before
:04:33. > :04:37.that, can we count on the Olympics to boost the economy? If you ask
:04:37. > :04:40.that from any retailer in London, you will get a punch in the face,
:04:40. > :04:45.to be honest. Most are so annoyed about what the effect has been.
:04:45. > :04:52.Even those not sunk by it are feeling the binch. It does turn out,
:04:52. > :04:57.-- the pinch. It does turn out there is an upside, it is, the
:04:57. > :05:00.ticket sales. While we are all trying to get the tickets, we are
:05:00. > :05:10.contributing to the economic growth. Those of us on the edge of the
:05:10. > :05:37.
:05:37. > :05:40.Olympic Park, it has been swings Never mind the dressage, Britain
:05:40. > :05:49.today was going for medals in the ultimate street sport, BMX. The
:05:49. > :05:53.sport that makes you glad they invented shock absorbers. And with
:05:53. > :05:56.the whole country now getting the cans in for the closing ceremony,
:05:56. > :06:02.it is time to start thinking about the economic impact of the games.
:06:02. > :06:06.Just a month ago, this was the promise. I'm confident we can
:06:06. > :06:12.derive over �13 billion of benefit to the UK economy, over the next
:06:12. > :06:19.four years, as a result of hosting these games. But with economics, as
:06:19. > :06:23.with BMX, it doesn't pay to be confident. The Bank of England's
:06:23. > :06:26.zero growth prediction burst the Olympic euphoria today. As for the
:06:26. > :06:30.2012-effect, turns out it is minor. There may well be some extra
:06:30. > :06:34.spending from tourism, but as many of us know, there is there has also
:06:34. > :06:37.been travel disruptions, more people are going on holiday those
:06:37. > :06:44.effects are small. The contributions from both ticket
:06:44. > :06:49.sales and TV rights, may bring a small boost to GDP in Q3. That is
:06:49. > :06:53.from the Bank of England is not exactly an enforcement of an
:06:53. > :06:57.economic Phoenix rising from the Olympic Flame. It does, at least,
:06:57. > :07:01.allay fears, that the overall impact of the games could be
:07:01. > :07:06.negative. At this floating market, a mile away from the Olympic Park,
:07:06. > :07:12.they are a little bit less ewe effusive about the impact of the
:07:12. > :07:15.games. This is an Olympic venture, but has it been attracting Olympic
:07:15. > :07:21.people? Swings and roundabouts, the fact we have come together has
:07:21. > :07:26.served us well, but the trade is exclusively local people. We have
:07:26. > :07:30.had a normal summer, if we have had a boost, it is because we are a
:07:30. > :07:33.floating market and come together. We have been shocked that there is
:07:33. > :07:38.less traditional foot fall than if we hadn't been together and a bit
:07:38. > :07:42.of a pull to people. No, there is not massive Olympic bump up, we
:07:42. > :07:45.haven't found that. The Olympic audiences, even though the site is
:07:45. > :07:50.just up behind us? Don't come here. The overall figures are patchy.
:07:50. > :07:57.This is what we know, hotel occupancy in London at the start of
:07:57. > :08:02.the games was 84%, a little up on the norm, of 82% a year ago. A
:08:02. > :08:05.post-games dip is expected, starting this Sunday. With
:08:05. > :08:10.restaurants takings in central London were down about 40% at the
:08:10. > :08:14.start of the games and Des spite an improvement, they are still down.
:08:14. > :08:19.The two -- and despite an improvement, they are still down.
:08:19. > :08:22.The two negatives, the costs, to pay for t we have had a lot of tax
:08:22. > :08:25.rises in the last couple of years, and one of the reasons is to pay
:08:25. > :08:28.for the public spending, one element of which is the Olympics.
:08:28. > :08:32.The second is the Olympics seems to have scared off economic activity.
:08:32. > :08:38.People were afraid that they wouldn't be able to travel to work,
:08:38. > :08:42.I run a London business, I was told to try and ask my staff to work at
:08:42. > :08:45.home. And tourism has been diverted from London, London has fewer
:08:45. > :08:50.tourists than usual, which is a bit odd, given the Olympics are going
:08:50. > :08:54.on. But other tourists who normally come to London have been diverted,
:08:54. > :08:59.they were afraid it would be too expensive. The Government spent �9
:08:59. > :09:05.billion on the games, the lottery another �2 billion, and the tax-
:09:05. > :09:08.payers in London �1 billion. A lot of that has gone on infrastructure,
:09:08. > :09:12.in private sector investment the massive shopping centre in
:09:12. > :09:15.Stratford is swings and roundabouts, it is a huge success, but retailers
:09:15. > :09:20.everywhere else in London say they are feel feeling the pinch. Those
:09:20. > :09:26.involved say the real pay-off is yet to come. Even down to the
:09:26. > :09:29.spectators who go, we are wowed. How do we turn the wow into
:09:29. > :09:34.economic percentage points? We have to follow through and make sure we
:09:34. > :09:38.deliver what we said we would from a legacy perspective. We want
:09:38. > :09:41.vibrant, occupied, well-used venues, capable of being used by not just
:09:41. > :09:46.elite, but everybody else. We want to create a place where people want
:09:46. > :09:50.to live, work and play. If we let the developments play out. That in
:09:50. > :09:54.theself will be a huge legacy. is a world away from the big
:09:54. > :09:59.planning project, or the credit card and burger and fizzy drinks
:09:59. > :10:06.companies that actually sponsored the Olympics, but it is stuff like
:10:06. > :10:08.this -- if stuff like this is the lasting legacy of the games,
:10:08. > :10:14.economic specialists will be very pleased, this is what they planned
:10:14. > :10:19.and worked for, real, chaotic, small businesses, and people and
:10:19. > :10:23.families, colonising the space in unpredictable and innovative ways.
:10:23. > :10:26.With all major state-run projects, there is an element of build it and
:10:26. > :10:30.they will come, and on this evidence they have. Not necessarily
:10:30. > :10:37.the people we expected. We will only know if the games generated
:10:38. > :10:42.more wealth than they consumed later.
:10:42. > :10:47.Four people with their fingers on the economic pulse are here. The
:10:47. > :10:55.co-founder of the Lyon restaurant chain, the man behind the Moshi
:10:55. > :11:02.Monster. The chair of Venture Capital, and Nicola Smith. Are we
:11:02. > :11:06.all agreed that you are all excited about the games, none of you saying
:11:06. > :11:10.bah-humbug. How do we translate that into something that has some
:11:10. > :11:13.kind of lasting economic legacy, Michael? I think everyone has been
:11:13. > :11:18.taken by surprise at how quiet things have been in central London.
:11:18. > :11:22.You mentioned taxi drivers are saying takings are down 20%,
:11:22. > :11:25.restaurants and bars are quiet. Going forward, what an amazing
:11:25. > :11:29.advert this has been for brand Britain, billions around the world
:11:29. > :11:34.are watching, hopefully it will increase tourist numbers in the
:11:34. > :11:39.future. Big business may come and settle here, we want to hire lots
:11:39. > :11:45.of people in silicone valley. And the other thing, the fact the games
:11:45. > :11:50.are inspiring a generation of kids. Olympians make amazing role models,
:11:50. > :11:55.better than reality TV stars, and the hard work and dedication they
:11:55. > :11:59.put in will develop the next wave of sportsmen and women to make
:11:59. > :12:05.Britain even greater. How do we translate this goodwill into
:12:05. > :12:09.tangible? We will get some benefits out of it, I'm slightly less
:12:09. > :12:12.optimistic than Michael. Why is that? The history of other games is
:12:12. > :12:15.there hasn't been a lasting legacy of significance. There will be some
:12:15. > :12:18.benefits for the country. It has been a success in terms of the
:12:18. > :12:22.number of medal we have won. The organisation has gone well, the
:12:22. > :12:26.site is good. But we have chucked an awful lot of money at it. A lot
:12:26. > :12:31.of lottery money at gone at it, that could have gone somewhere else,
:12:31. > :12:36.and done some other good. Has it done some good, yes. To justify the
:12:36. > :12:39.expenditure? We will find out in a few years. I expect it will be near
:12:39. > :12:42.neutrality, not anything particularly good, that is not to
:12:42. > :12:46.knock t it is a great experience. What about the tourists who have
:12:46. > :12:49.seen how great it is here and flock in greater numbers? They have to,
:12:49. > :12:53.they haven't been here the last week or two. There has been rather
:12:53. > :12:59.a shortage of people buying things in the stores in the city, I got
:12:59. > :13:03.the figures today for one of the large luxury department stores,
:13:03. > :13:06.some of their departments were down 50% this week. That is a huge
:13:06. > :13:11.economic blow. There are plenty of people not winning, over time, yes
:13:11. > :13:18.it will be good for the country's image, but most people did know
:13:18. > :13:23.where London was. Have your ress been empty, John vein ent --
:13:23. > :13:27.restaurants been empty? If you come to us you will find us filled with
:13:27. > :13:30.people, before the Olympics we were up 5%, there has been a decrease, I
:13:30. > :13:35.have a business partner who is shrewd, he spoke to people in
:13:35. > :13:39.Sydney, who said they didn't get the bounce expected, we learned
:13:39. > :13:42.from that. Two points to learn, number one, let's forgive the
:13:42. > :13:46.Olympics for not necessarily creating economic benefit, if I
:13:47. > :13:50.have a party, or I have a piece of cake, I don't try to ask that piece
:13:50. > :13:54.of cake or party to achieve an economic benefit to me. We have had
:13:54. > :13:58.a party, and there are huge benefits, non-financial, and non-
:13:58. > :14:01.economic, and intangible benefit that is come to us as human beings.
:14:01. > :14:05.We should celebrate that. The second thing is, we are half way
:14:05. > :14:10.through the race. This is like asking Ben Ainslie half way through
:14:10. > :14:14.the race, stop, and tell us why you might not win the race. We will
:14:14. > :14:17.until Sunday, London is amazing, things are going on, this goes all
:14:17. > :14:22.the way up to Glasgow. Let's come to London, there is lots going on.
:14:22. > :14:26.We are half way through the race. There is the Paralympics, let's get
:14:26. > :14:32.going, there is lots to do. Weren't you, as a businessman,
:14:32. > :14:35.understanding, as many of us did, that the Olympic Games would have
:14:35. > :14:41.an economic benefit to the United Kingdom. Didn't you expect to be
:14:41. > :14:44.feeling that now. Why phone a friend in Sydney? 18 months ago the
:14:44. > :14:49.general feeling was we are going to be so busy during the Olympics, it
:14:49. > :14:53.will be out of control, you won't be able to get deliveries in, it
:14:53. > :14:57.will be pandemonium, we will cope. Did you take on extra staff? We did,
:14:57. > :15:01.but fortunately, based on what happened in Athens and Sydney, we
:15:01. > :15:06.actually had some useful restaurant relationships, which told us that
:15:06. > :15:10.things weren't quite as the myths were suggesting, we were fortunate
:15:10. > :15:14.we were able to plan on that basis. I'm interested, surely the airlines
:15:14. > :15:18.knew people weren't coming, and someone knew they weren't coming. I
:15:18. > :15:23.wonder whether that message could have got out there earlier. Can we
:15:23. > :15:29.blame British Airways? No, enjoy the Olympic and invite people to
:15:29. > :15:34.come tomorrow. If you come to Lyon and say you like the rings -- Leon
:15:34. > :15:38.and say you like the rings, you will get a free side. Just now or
:15:38. > :15:44.because we are watching? I would like to sponsor the Olympics next
:15:44. > :15:47.time. You are doing a good job of publicity now! What is the way to
:15:47. > :15:51.screw some money, long-term, from the games? Two things to think
:15:51. > :15:54.about, first of all what have we already benefited from, from the
:15:54. > :15:57.games, this is a long-term construction project. It has
:15:57. > :16:04.created thousands of jobs, there is a great agreement between unions
:16:04. > :16:09.and employers on sielt, which means it is the great -- site, which
:16:09. > :16:12.means it has one of the best health and safety records and no problems
:16:12. > :16:15.with injuries, it is great to see how that benefited both workers and
:16:15. > :16:19.the whole of us now as we are benefiting from an Olympic Park
:16:19. > :16:23.that is being delivered to budget, to time, and has been a real
:16:23. > :16:26.example of how public sector investment can kick start the
:16:26. > :16:32.private sector investment we need to get the economy going on. We
:16:32. > :16:37.have a big area of reclaimed land, we have massive transport
:16:37. > :16:41.infrastructure and property infrastructure, and workers on the
:16:41. > :16:45.park, being paid at London living wage rates over the past four years.
:16:45. > :16:47.That will all help build productivity in the years ahead,
:16:48. > :16:50.and could bring significant long- term benefits. In the short-term we
:16:50. > :16:54.have to look beyond the Olympics at what is going wrong with the
:16:54. > :16:58.economy. The problem is a Government economic strategy set on
:16:58. > :17:02.choking off the recovery rather than getting us back to growth.
:17:02. > :17:06.are calling for massive public spending on huge products? At a
:17:06. > :17:12.time when the Government can borrow more cheaply than it has for two
:17:12. > :17:15.centuries, and people and various economists across the world calling
:17:15. > :17:20.for an immediate stimulus to get the economy going. Particularly
:17:20. > :17:22.when we have all the benefits and jobs the infrastructure investment
:17:22. > :17:26.can bring ts good for the Government to be considering that
:17:26. > :17:32.sort of strategy now. What about the point earlier, perhaps if this
:17:32. > :17:38.money was spent in another way, it would have had just as much benefit.
:17:38. > :17:43.New roads, new railways? We have done, that we reclaimed a land that
:17:43. > :17:49.was previously desolate, we have trained up apprentices. Everyone
:17:49. > :17:56.not watching in London might have had the more benefit. You said it
:17:56. > :18:00.was on budget, it wasn't. We pitched for �6 billion, it was �12,
:18:00. > :18:04.that is not on budget. One of the reason things have gone well, a lot
:18:04. > :18:10.of money has been spent, things have been done first-class, Rolls-
:18:10. > :18:16.Royce throughout, that's good in many ways, but a lot of money was
:18:16. > :18:22.spent. We did the same with the athletes, we spent �300 million, we
:18:22. > :18:29.got medals, but �60 million ten years ago, we had none. What about
:18:29. > :18:34.getting a man on the moon, did it inspire kids, definitely, but did
:18:35. > :18:39.it doing anything? No I'm a boring old accountant, on budget to me
:18:39. > :18:43.means on budget. It was a wonderful party, there is nothing wrong to
:18:43. > :18:47.throw a party that lifts the national spirit, increases
:18:47. > :18:53.confidence and makes people happy. It is hard to measure through GDP,
:18:53. > :18:56.part of life's rich tapestry. can argue, all the construction
:18:56. > :19:00.contracts were delivered through budget. This about the Olympics
:19:00. > :19:04.lifting the national mood, I think it is fabulous, I'm worried about
:19:04. > :19:07.all the these very minor economic factors n a normal period of
:19:07. > :19:10.economic growth, would really not be having that much impact on our
:19:10. > :19:14.GDP and suddenly being seen as enormously significant. The reason
:19:14. > :19:21.the Government keep telling us about the snow and the rain and the
:19:21. > :19:25.snow, and why it is all undermining our economy, is because underneath
:19:25. > :19:30.it is stagnant, and growing less quickly than when the Government
:19:30. > :19:34.came into power. Just thinking about the economic benefits,
:19:34. > :19:38.certainly the legacy of these games, how are we going to measure it?
:19:38. > :19:42.When do we measure it? Isn't it important to quantify it? We will
:19:42. > :19:46.never be able to measure it properly. Everyone is happy. There
:19:46. > :19:49.are some completely intangible things, will it result in more
:19:49. > :19:53.exports and visitors? Yes it will do some of that, nobody will know
:19:53. > :19:58.how much. You can't do it. Your point is an interesting one you are
:19:58. > :20:02.making about infrastructure spend, despite the �12 billion, there is a
:20:02. > :20:05.lot less than the reduction in the infrastructure spend since the
:20:05. > :20:08.coalition came in. We are seeing infrastructure spending cut by
:20:08. > :20:13.close to 50% in this parliament. It is one at the point where
:20:13. > :20:17.consumption is falling, private sec investment is falling, it is one of
:20:17. > :20:22.the way to get the economy growing again. It is a shame. The best
:20:22. > :20:25.thing to do is educate Rio. We, seemingly as a nation didn't
:20:25. > :20:29.completely learn from Sydney and Athens, Rio can learn from us and
:20:29. > :20:34.understand what the pen about fits of a great party, and cost it
:20:34. > :20:39.appropriately. We are in -- benefits of a great party, and cost
:20:39. > :20:46.it appropriately. We have five or six days until the end, let's get
:20:46. > :20:52.people to London, we have people in pink shirts and hilarious
:20:52. > :20:56.entertainers. Thank you for the free meal offer. You're welcome.
:20:56. > :20:59.don't have other entertainment, we have Newsnight. Tomorrow we will be
:20:59. > :21:03.looking at another aspect of the Olympic legacy, we will be looking
:21:03. > :21:06.at what will happen to the Olympic Park itself.
:21:06. > :21:09.It's possible, you are watching this programme in your bedroom.
:21:09. > :21:13.Perhaps alone, perhaps with your significant other, perhaps with
:21:13. > :21:16.someone you have only just met, in which case, why the hell are you
:21:16. > :21:18.watching Newsnight. But, whatever your bedroom circumstances, would
:21:18. > :21:22.you like someone from the Crown Prosecution Service in there with
:21:22. > :21:29.you, just to make sure you are not doing something grossly offensive,
:21:29. > :21:33.disgusting or otherwise obscene, and then taking a photograph of it.
:21:33. > :21:37.In essence, that's what happened to barrister, Sara Walsh. He has been
:21:37. > :21:44.on trial, charged, under the Criminal Justice Act of 2008, which
:21:44. > :21:48.makes it illegal to possess or look on-line at any pornographic image
:21:48. > :21:52.depicting an act that results or is likely to result to a serious
:21:52. > :21:56.industry to a person's breast, an news Oreganals. I don't want to
:21:56. > :22:01.cause any offence, if it is not clear where the item is going, you
:22:01. > :22:05.might want to find the remote. The charges related to photographs Sara
:22:05. > :22:11.Walsh's computer, including images of anal fisting, and an object
:22:11. > :22:16.being inserted into the tip of a penis. Another image found on Mr
:22:16. > :22:21.Walsh's e-mail account was said to be an indecent image of a teenage
:22:21. > :22:28.boy. The prosecution suggested to wans that people who attended
:22:28. > :22:32.sexual health clinics engaged in more risky practices. She replied
:22:32. > :22:36.people who attended took their sexual health seriously. Tonight
:22:36. > :22:41.the Crown Court found him not guilty in the six charges against
:22:41. > :22:46.him. Although he has kept his freedom, he last lost his job,
:22:46. > :22:52.working as an aide to the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson. First the
:22:52. > :22:55.woman who decided to bring the case, the chief crown prosecutor for
:22:55. > :23:00.London. Why did the CPS bring the case? We brought the case because
:23:00. > :23:06.there was sufficient evidence, when we looked at the case, we found
:23:06. > :23:10.that there was evidence to prosecute the offence of possessing
:23:10. > :23:15.extreme pornography. What we looked at there was whether or not there
:23:15. > :23:20.was an pornographic image. And the element of the act that we
:23:20. > :23:25.prosecuted under was whether or not the image showed there was likely
:23:25. > :23:28.to be serious harm and injury caused. But to be clear, if these
:23:28. > :23:32.acts had taken place and nobody had taken a photograph, the law
:23:32. > :23:38.wouldn't be interested? No, it is around the image and the law which
:23:38. > :23:42.we prosecuted under, it is about possessing a pornographic image.
:23:42. > :23:47.But your concern was whether people would come to serious physical
:23:47. > :23:52.damage? Yes, the law is about, does the image show an act that is
:23:52. > :23:56.likely to cause serious harm or injury. So it is not about
:23:56. > :24:00.particular acts being made unlawful, it is about, does the image show
:24:01. > :24:07.that there is likely to be serious harm or injury. What the law is
:24:07. > :24:12.obsessed about here, is, "sex"? is about pornographic images, it is
:24:12. > :24:16.about are these extreme images, in that does it show serious harm or
:24:16. > :24:20.injury. If I was to take a photograph of someone marathon
:24:20. > :24:23.running, or skydiving, or smoke ago cigarette, the law is not
:24:23. > :24:27.interested there? That is not pornographic. You have to make sure
:24:27. > :24:30.there is a pornographic image, which, dedefinition, is sex. Is any
:24:30. > :24:34.part of it, when you are prosecuting a case like this, do
:24:34. > :24:37.you hope that people will be embarrassed into pleading guilty?
:24:37. > :24:43.That is not why we prosecute cases, we prosecute cases because we have
:24:43. > :24:47.the evidence there, and we put them before a jury. It is for a jury to
:24:47. > :24:49.decide. This particular case went all the way through to a jury, it
:24:49. > :24:53.wasn't stopped by the judge, it was put before the jury, the judge
:24:53. > :24:56.decided there was a case to answer. It is a matter for the jury then to
:24:56. > :25:00.decide whether there was any reasonable doubt, which is
:25:00. > :25:04.different from our test which, is whether there is realistic prospect
:25:04. > :25:07.of conviction. Are you still happy to have brought the case? Having
:25:07. > :25:11.looked at the images and the case we were right to bring it. The
:25:11. > :25:14.evidence was there. The fact that a jury decides differently, is
:25:14. > :25:17.perfectly proper, but it doesn't mean our original decision was
:25:17. > :25:21.wrong. Are you going to review your procedures as a result of this
:25:21. > :25:24.case? We look at each case individually, and we look at
:25:24. > :25:26.whether the evidence is there, and whether it is right to prosecute or
:25:26. > :25:31.not, and whether it is in the public interest. We will certainly
:25:31. > :25:34.do that, in the same way we always do. Our procedures are there to
:25:34. > :25:39.make sure that those tests are carried through. This was case that
:25:39. > :25:43.took place, in part, on Twitter, as you know, and something people are
:25:43. > :25:47.saying on Twitter, they are wondwhrerg this prosecution had had
:25:47. > :25:52.anything to do -- wondering whether this prosecution had anything to do
:25:52. > :25:55.with Sara Walsh's work as a barrister of prosecuting police
:25:55. > :25:58.officers for corruption? Absolutely not, I didn't know that was part of
:25:58. > :26:01.his work. It doesn't matter who the individual is, we look at the
:26:01. > :26:08.evidence and whether an offence has been committed. Isn't the
:26:08. > :26:12.embarrassing thing about this case, not these images, but the fact it
:26:12. > :26:17.was brought, what is the law doing in people's bedrooms? This is the
:26:17. > :26:20.law as it stand, the act was passed in 2008, it is not for us to
:26:20. > :26:25.comment on legislation. It is for us to apply the law as parliament
:26:25. > :26:29.sees fit. Thank you very much. Thank you.
:26:29. > :26:32.Sara Walsh, what is it like having your sex life discussed in great
:26:32. > :26:37.detail in open court? Extraordinarily embarrassing. To
:26:37. > :26:41.speak to a jury, across a courtroom, over seven days, explaining what I
:26:41. > :26:44.do in private is not something I would wish on anybody. Did you
:26:44. > :26:50.consider, knowing that was coming, did you consider simply pleading
:26:50. > :26:54.guilty and not going through that? Nothing that I did was ill legal,
:26:54. > :27:00.and there was no way I would plead guilty, no. You are a QC, what did
:27:00. > :27:04.you think of the legal arguments that were arraigned against you?
:27:04. > :27:08.They were poor. The act has a purpose, that is to enable
:27:08. > :27:12.prosecutions to take place for pornography that would be caught by
:27:12. > :27:18.the Obscene Publications Act, were it published in this country. What
:27:18. > :27:20.this act was actually used against me for were pictures that were
:27:20. > :27:24.taken of consensual activities by people in private. That was not
:27:24. > :27:31.what it was designed for. It is designed for extreme porn nothing
:27:31. > :27:37.me, beastality, and necrophelia, not two or three people enjoying
:27:37. > :27:41.themselves in the bedroom. What about the law's duty to protect
:27:41. > :27:45.people from physical harm, whether or not there is a consenting act
:27:45. > :27:50.going on? That is absolutely right, and were there any harm caused,
:27:50. > :27:54.there wouldn't be a problem. These were consenting adults, I was
:27:54. > :27:58.taking part in some of them, there was no harm at all. You were not a
:27:58. > :28:02.medical expert, that is what the CPS had at their disposal, they
:28:02. > :28:07.thought there was a problem? We had doctors who said there wasn't a
:28:07. > :28:10.problem. It is activity that doesn't cause injury to the vast
:28:10. > :28:15.majority of people who engage it, the test under the act is whether
:28:15. > :28:18.it is likely to cause harm. It is a legislation that is designed to
:28:18. > :28:21.stop extreme activity, the inversion of knives, this is not
:28:21. > :28:25.what this was about. Do you blame the law then or the prosecutors who
:28:25. > :28:31.made the decision to bring you to court? It is the way in which the
:28:31. > :28:36.law is being interpreted. The law is correct, but the way in which it
:28:36. > :28:41.was interpreted in my case was quite wrong. Will you change any
:28:41. > :28:45.part of your behaviour as a result of this case, will you stop being
:28:45. > :28:48.involved in photographing any of these events? No, the jury have
:28:48. > :28:55.decided what I did was legal and proper.
:28:55. > :28:58.This was case, which played out in part on Twitter. Your side were
:28:58. > :29:02.able to tweet from the courtroom? That's right. How important was
:29:02. > :29:05.that to you? It was very important. Because the headline of this case
:29:05. > :29:11.sounds dreadful. If you hear the evidence as it comes out over the
:29:11. > :29:16.course of the trial, and you are able to express that, over Twitter,
:29:16. > :29:20.to people, they can feel as if they are participating, and people
:29:20. > :29:22.understand what is going on. The reaction on Twitter was
:29:22. > :29:27.overwhelmingly positive, they felt they were there and could
:29:27. > :29:31.understand what I was going through. Even there was an allegation of an
:29:31. > :29:34.indecent photograph of an under-age boy, was that a particularly
:29:34. > :29:38.difficult thing to deal with? was, it was one of those
:29:38. > :29:44.allegations that sounds absolutely ghastly. The jury decided that
:29:44. > :29:48.image was an image of an adult. Do you want your old job back, will
:29:48. > :29:51.you get your old job back? That is a matter for other people. Yes, I
:29:51. > :30:00.would like to carry on doing what I did before, certainly. Do you think
:30:00. > :30:03.you were well treated by your employers? As a barrister you are
:30:03. > :30:07.not employed, the only person to mistreat me, would be me. At the
:30:07. > :30:10.moment I'm unable to return to chambers, but I hope to be able to
:30:11. > :30:16.do so. Have you any calls of support from people who used today
:30:16. > :30:20.employ you today? I have had imnumberable calls from people
:30:21. > :30:26.today, not from my chambers. Do you think the law will now be looked at,
:30:26. > :30:30.or do you think at least the CPS will review their procedures?
:30:30. > :30:34.think the CPS ought to lock at their procedures, they are using -
:30:34. > :30:38.look at their procedures, they are using this act to criminalise legal
:30:38. > :30:43.activity. When the act was passed, the Ministry of Justice indicated
:30:43. > :30:45.it would only be used to prosecute pictures that would otherwise be
:30:45. > :30:48.caught under the Obscene Publications Act. There is no way
:30:49. > :30:52.these pictures would have been caught under the Obscene
:30:52. > :30:57.Publications Act. It was used in a way parliament was told it would
:30:57. > :31:03.not be used. What have you learned from this? That's a difficult
:31:03. > :31:06.question. I have learned that the juries in this country return
:31:06. > :31:12.perfectly sound and sensible verdicts. But I have also learned
:31:12. > :31:15.that it takes 15 months of very difficult process to get there. I
:31:15. > :31:23.am very much obliged to the jury for their sensible decision, but it
:31:23. > :31:27.has been a long and hard road. In part of the world, where history
:31:27. > :31:31.hangs heavy, and disputed lasts generations, there is renewed
:31:31. > :31:35.unrest. In recent days the trouble in Sinai, has seen militants
:31:35. > :31:39.killing Egyptian border guards. Now the military has hit back, and
:31:39. > :31:44.Egypt's President has sacked his intelligence chief and the Governor
:31:44. > :31:49.of North Sinai. Tell us more about what's happening? Essentially there
:31:49. > :31:51.is a problem brewing in the Sinai Peninsula for a long time. It has
:31:51. > :31:56.become ungoverned space, particularly since the Egyptian
:31:56. > :31:59.revolution. Things have come to a head in the past few days. The
:31:59. > :32:03.peninsula itself sits between Egypt and Israel. It is a sensitive part
:32:03. > :32:08.of the world. There have been lots of attacks across the Israeli
:32:08. > :32:15.border, if we go in closely, on Sunday, there was a major incident
:32:15. > :32:18.at the Keremshalom crossing point, this is when 16 border guards were
:32:18. > :32:22.killed by militants from the Egyptian side and then tried to get
:32:22. > :32:27.through in armoured vehicles to the Israeli side. Yesterday the
:32:27. > :32:32.Egyptian security forces came under attack in these two places. Their
:32:32. > :32:37.response was to launch a major attack there, including helicopters,
:32:37. > :32:42.firing missiles, some report even of air strikes, as we can see from
:32:42. > :32:46.the video, heavy armoured force mechanised infantry moving in there.
:32:46. > :32:49.The Egyptian military say they killed 20 people in those clash.
:32:49. > :32:53.Some locals have cast doubt on that, and said they don't think many
:32:53. > :32:57.people were killed. The point is this is now turning into a
:32:57. > :33:07.militariseed flash point, with considerable risks for the new
:33:07. > :33:07.
:33:07. > :33:10.President of Egypt and security more generally in the area. What
:33:10. > :33:14.are we learning about the relationship between the President
:33:14. > :33:18.and his generals? We are hearing about the military and the
:33:18. > :33:21.President being locked into conflict. Now they have to deal
:33:21. > :33:24.with the problems together. They have formed a defence council, the
:33:24. > :33:28.President and the Defence Minister, this holdover from the Mubarak era,
:33:28. > :33:32.they are both on this. They took these decisions together, we are
:33:32. > :33:34.told. They sacked the head of the domestic Intelligence Service,
:33:35. > :33:39.because they say he ignored an Israeli warning that this attack
:33:39. > :33:42.was about to come. In some ways you can see a positive value in this
:33:42. > :33:47.new joint approach. Mr Morsi obviously coming from the Islamic
:33:47. > :33:51.side of politics, dealing with an Islamic militant threat in Sinai,
:33:51. > :33:55.he has considerable credibility. The military, I think, regard that
:33:55. > :34:00.as very helpful. But this could escalate seriously, if it becomes
:34:00. > :34:04.more of a feud, if the combat becomes more generalised, it could
:34:04. > :34:08.really test both President and military.
:34:08. > :34:13.Some of the statistics about Karachi in Pakistan are quite
:34:13. > :34:17.something. In one of the world's most populist countries, it is the
:34:17. > :34:20.most populated city. One of the most densely populated areas on the
:34:20. > :34:25.planet. Forecasters struggle to keep up with the explosion in
:34:25. > :34:29.numbers in Karachi. 21 million people, they reckon. A number that
:34:29. > :34:33.makes London, even Olympic London, look like Stackton Tressel. There
:34:33. > :34:37.are more startling facts about Karachi, heroin is cheaper than
:34:37. > :34:42.food. So the city has a vast number of addicts. Those who want to break
:34:42. > :34:52.their habit have to rely on a controversial clinic, run by a
:34:52. > :34:57.
:34:57. > :35:02.charity, using cold turkey methods. In this sprawling port city, there
:35:02. > :35:10.is an estimated half a million chronic heroin add ducts. That is
:35:10. > :35:14.one in every 40 people. Pakistan is seen by many outsiders as a failed
:35:14. > :35:21.state, has little public health profession, it is left to charities
:35:21. > :35:28.to plug the gap. The Edhi Foundation, runs what is thought to
:35:28. > :35:32.be the world's largest drug rehabilitation centre.
:35:32. > :35:37.Without the resources to offer conventional treatment, like
:35:37. > :35:47.methadone, the 4,000 patients are given only paracetamol to help with
:35:47. > :35:50.
:35:50. > :35:53.the pain of cold turkey. Every day the foundation is called by the
:35:53. > :36:03.families of addicts, so desperate for help, that they are willing to
:36:03. > :36:03.
:36:03. > :37:18.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds
:37:18. > :37:24.Because he was forced into rehabbi his mum, under the centre rules,
:37:24. > :37:29.only -- rehab by his mum, under the centre rules, only she can decide
:37:29. > :37:39.when he can leave. Unlike him, these brothers checked themselves
:37:39. > :38:01.
:38:01. > :38:05.in, and can leave whenever they It's now a week since the brothers
:38:05. > :38:15.checked themselves into rehab. They have decided they are ready to
:38:15. > :38:54.
:38:54. > :38:57.But had you sane's happiness is short lived. -- Hussain's happiness
:38:57. > :39:05.is short lived. His wife doesn't want to see him and his mother-in-
:39:05. > :39:15.law tells him to leave. At just 16, his wife says her life has been
:39:15. > :39:54.
:39:54. > :40:04.The next day we found Hussain and Yusef sleeping rough, a few miles
:40:04. > :40:22.
:40:22. > :40:28.from their home. The war in Afghanistan has led to a surge in
:40:28. > :40:32.opaite exports, as a result, heroin in Karachi is cheaper than food,
:40:32. > :40:42.and can provide escape for those stuck in a cycle of poverty and
:40:42. > :40:42.
:40:42. > :42:41.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds
:42:41. > :42:44.48 hours after calling for help, Staff at the centre told me they
:42:44. > :42:54.often see patients pleading with family members. To them it is an
:42:54. > :42:55.
:42:55. > :43:47.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds
:43:47. > :43:53.expected part of the withdrawal A week after leaving rehab, he says
:43:53. > :44:03.he has put his addiction behind him. But his brother is missing. Hussain
:44:03. > :44:28.
:44:28. > :44:35.Treatment doesn't work for everyone. But the Ehdi Centre is a lifeline,
:44:35. > :44:41.in a city that sometimes feels like it is floating on a sea of heroin.
:44:41. > :44:47.There is more on that story tomorrow morning in Crossing
:44:47. > :44:57.Continents at 11.00pm on Radio 4, a terrific network. A quick look at
:44:57. > :45:31.
:45:31. > :45:33.the paper, in the Telegraph a That's all tonight. I will be back
:45:33. > :45:43.with more winning medals tomorrow. From all of us on the programme,
:45:43. > :46:06.
:46:06. > :46:09.From all of us on the programme, good night. Good evening, the
:46:09. > :46:13.weather is set fair the next couple of days. With high pressure to
:46:13. > :46:19.thank for that. It is muggy, starting with mist and fog, not
:46:19. > :46:22.just around the coast but Midlands. It will burn back come the
:46:22. > :46:25.afternoon. In Scotland we will see more sunshine. The north-east will
:46:26. > :46:30.see more sunshine than we have seen. It will be warmer as a result of
:46:30. > :46:34.more strong August sunshine. Always the risk that some southern coastal
:46:34. > :46:37.counties will see sea fog lapping on shore. It is a similar risk
:46:37. > :46:42.around coastlines of south-west England, the Bristol Channel and
:46:42. > :46:46.Wales. On the whole we will see a lot of dry, fine and sunny weather.
:46:46. > :46:49.Warm weather too, with very little wind around. There could be a sea
:46:49. > :46:53.breeze to lap some of the sea fog on to the east coast of Northern
:46:53. > :46:57.Ireland. With the weather front close by, one or two showers around.
:46:57. > :47:02.Brushing close to the Western Isles, for the bulk of Scotland, a lot of
:47:02. > :47:05.dry, and fine weather. Cloud in the north-east, one or two showers, the
:47:05. > :47:10.indication there for Inverness. Otherwise, Thursday and Friday,
:47:10. > :47:13.Manchester, Belfast, Edinburgh and Inverness, set fair. A similar
:47:13. > :47:17.picture further south. The cloud coming and going, more broken in
:47:17. > :47:20.the south than we had during the day today. Warmer that is a