:00:12. > :00:17.Tonight, are the Government's home building plans a solid foundation
:00:17. > :00:22.for growth, or a house of straw? The new planning minister is here
:00:22. > :00:29.to tell us that building new conserve trees is the way out of
:00:29. > :00:32.the recession. The Central Bank fires the gun on the way out of the
:00:32. > :00:40.crisis in the eurozone. Will it hit the target?
:00:40. > :00:43.The way is now open for the ECB to buy unlimited amounts of debt,
:00:43. > :00:47.taking Spain and maybe Italy out of the firing line. With opposition to
:00:47. > :00:51.austerity rising, it will be hard for them to deliver the conditions
:00:51. > :00:55.set, and I have been on the road with the man organising the
:00:55. > :00:59.fightback in Andalucia. TRANSLATION: Another Europe is
:00:59. > :01:06.necessary, a Europe of the people, a Europe of the ones who don't have
:01:06. > :01:12.anything. The unemployed, the poor, people who demand a new reality.
:01:12. > :01:22.will be discussing the morals of the rescue deal. And, on board the
:01:22. > :01:29.
:01:29. > :01:36.Africa express. The train that runs on music, we have access to the
:01:36. > :01:41.African musicians for a magical mystery tour.
:01:41. > :01:44.Good evening, a building bonanza in England, or an urban blight. The
:01:44. > :01:48.Government has announced plans it hopes will build our way out of a
:01:48. > :01:52.recession, ending the need for planning permission for virtually
:01:52. > :01:57.every garage extension, rear extension, basement conversion. The
:01:57. > :01:59.rules will last for three years and are designed to kick start the
:01:59. > :02:03.construction industry, and there by boosting Comet. It is about getting
:02:03. > :02:08.the planners off our back, says the Government. Will every Englishman
:02:08. > :02:11.put a new Tourette or two in his castle. Is this the coalition's
:02:11. > :02:16.really big economic idea. We will hear from the plan minister, Nick
:02:16. > :02:20.Boles, in a moment. Nobody who buys a house now, in the
:02:20. > :02:25.south of England, in London or Oxford or Bournemouth wants to know
:02:25. > :02:28.that the day they bought it, it has gone up by �5,000. This has been
:02:28. > :02:33.called the ripple effect, the delayed overfle of the property
:02:33. > :02:39.boom in the south. One estate agent it was more like a flood tide.
:02:39. > :02:42.one is suggesting we go back to the days of housing boom: In Leeds,
:02:42. > :02:45.estate agents report what they call staggering house price increases
:02:45. > :02:49.over the last six months. There is a lot of confidence now in the
:02:49. > :02:52.economy. That is one of the main reasons, I think people now feel
:02:52. > :02:57.far more confident about moving house, job prospects are better,
:02:57. > :03:02.and the budget, of course, helped the economy. What would David
:03:02. > :03:05.Cameron give to have someone saying that right now. Today the Prime
:03:05. > :03:09.Minister of unveiling the latest part of his plan, to unstick the
:03:09. > :03:13.housing market. The problem with the system at the moment is it is
:03:13. > :03:16.too slow, planning permission takes too long to get. There are too many
:03:16. > :03:19.strings attached. We need to cut through all of that. There are
:03:19. > :03:24.people living in homes with their parents, aged 30. I want them to
:03:24. > :03:27.have a home of their own. Let's get new houses built, let as allow
:03:27. > :03:30.people to extend their houses, so they have a better quality of life.
:03:31. > :03:33.That will help put people to work. All of these things need to be done,
:03:33. > :03:36.that is why we are taking the steps today. For a start, the
:03:36. > :03:40.Government's removing the requirement to build affordable
:03:41. > :03:44.homes in any new developments. That is an attempt to unlock 75,000
:03:44. > :03:48.homes currently stalled. The Government will also guarantee up
:03:48. > :03:52.to �50 billion worth of major infrastructure and housing projects.
:03:52. > :03:55.And, there will be a major infrastructure fast-track for
:03:55. > :04:01.politically sensitive projects. There by, projects can be approved
:04:01. > :04:05.by planning inspectors, rather than councils. For householders and
:04:05. > :04:13.businesses, some extensions will be exempt from planning permission for
:04:13. > :04:20.a limited period. And there will be a �280 million enlargement for the
:04:20. > :04:23.FirstBuy scheme, to help first time buyers with deposits. Is this the
:04:23. > :04:26.red tape/bureaucracy reducing, some say, we need to get growth.
:04:26. > :04:29.once, a really good supply side measure from the Government. It is
:04:29. > :04:32.a limited measure, it won't change the world. But on the margins, it
:04:32. > :04:36.will help the economy and also the lives of hundreds of thousands of
:04:36. > :04:44.homeowners. Such voices might take heart at the
:04:44. > :04:48.views of the new planning minister, Nick Boles. Back in 2010 he says he
:04:48. > :04:53.doesn't much like planning at all. There comes a question in life, is
:04:53. > :04:56.do you believe that planning works, that clever people, sit anything a
:04:56. > :05:00.rom, can plan how people's communities should develop, or do
:05:00. > :05:03.you believe it can't work. I believe it can't work. David
:05:03. > :05:07.Cameron believes it can't work, Nick Clegg believes it can't work,
:05:07. > :05:12.chaotic, therefore, in our vocabulary, is a good thing.
:05:12. > :05:15.Chaotic is, what our cities are, when we see how people live, where
:05:15. > :05:18.restaurants spring up, where they close down, where people move to,
:05:18. > :05:22.can you predict any of that, would you like to live in a world where
:05:22. > :05:25.you could predict any of that. I certainly wouldn't. But relaxing
:05:25. > :05:30.planning laws isn't necessarily welcome from the people who
:05:30. > :05:35.currently run them. It is ill conceived, we just spent two years
:05:35. > :05:39.going through a whole review of planning policies, and to literally,
:05:39. > :05:46.and only just publish those new national policy planning policy
:05:46. > :05:51.framework, and to literally, a couple of months afterwards, to
:05:51. > :05:54.come up with these kneejerk, poorly thought out responses, is really
:05:54. > :05:57.disappointing, and suggests the Government isn't thinking about the
:05:57. > :06:01.long-term implication of what it is saying. The Prime Minister and his
:06:01. > :06:07.deputy were visiting a new build housing estate in Hertfordshire
:06:07. > :06:16.today. As the news came through, that the OECD had downgraded its
:06:16. > :06:22.forecast for UK growth this year. From an anaemic plus 0.5 per cent,
:06:22. > :06:27.to a dismal, minus 0.7, both know a recovery in construction could be
:06:27. > :06:30.vital to get the numbers going in the opposite direction. In recent
:06:30. > :06:35.quarters, construction growth has gone from flatlining to negative
:06:35. > :06:38.territory. The importance of that growth to the wider economy, well,
:06:38. > :06:43.last quarter, construction retraction was responsible for
:06:43. > :06:47.dragging down output of the whole economy by 0.3%.
:06:48. > :06:53.Faced with this reality, Labour say the Government is merely tinkering.
:06:53. > :06:57.I do have to say, a one-year holiday from the current rules on
:06:57. > :07:00.planning for conservatory extensions for up to eight metres
:07:00. > :07:06.in a garden, which is what the Government is announcing today,
:07:06. > :07:11.does not represent an economic plan. Construction once fuelled economic
:07:11. > :07:16.and political fortunes. Although all parties say we need to move
:07:16. > :07:22.away from depend ance -- dependance on the housing market. The next
:07:22. > :07:27.election could be decided on who is judged today to have the best plan
:07:27. > :07:30.to get us closer to the good old days. Nick Boles is the new
:07:30. > :07:35.minister for planning following the reshuffle. He joins me now. First
:07:35. > :07:40.of all, a new projection for growth of 0.5%, is this planning change
:07:40. > :07:45.going to deliver growth? Remember the initiative you focused on, I
:07:45. > :07:49.can understand why, because it is a more colourful one, is one of a
:07:49. > :07:54.number of great initiatives. Which includes a huge investment through
:07:54. > :07:58.this guarantee of �40 billion on infrastructure project, and �10
:07:58. > :08:01.billion of building houses for rent, and other things, all of those,
:08:01. > :08:05.along with other things announced in the next few week, contribute to
:08:05. > :08:10.growth in the economy. What will this planning change contribute of
:08:10. > :08:13.that growth? I don't know, and you are a bit of a fool to be able to
:08:13. > :08:16.project precisely which each element is. Do you know a number of
:08:16. > :08:19.people who want to build a conservatory or extend their house,
:08:19. > :08:22.that would be a difficult thing to guess. What is clear, is it is
:08:22. > :08:25.important to make it easier for people to do t and encourage people
:08:25. > :08:29.to do it now, rather than wait for three years time when they will
:08:29. > :08:34.have to go through the planning process. You have absolutely no
:08:34. > :08:39.idea whether conservatories, extensions, baigsments, will
:08:40. > :08:43.deliver you any -- basements, will deliver you any growth whatsoever?
:08:43. > :08:47.People do have to have planning permission, and it is a painful and
:08:47. > :08:51.expensive process, if you make it less so, more people will want to
:08:51. > :08:54.do it, it is logical and human nature. Who will put on these
:08:54. > :08:58.extensions and conservatories, when houses are in negative equity,
:08:58. > :09:01.people are losing their jobs, this Government says there is more cuts
:09:01. > :09:05.coming. People are stretching themselves for their mortgage, and
:09:05. > :09:09.we know their disposable income, average disposable income has
:09:09. > :09:13.dropped by 2% over the last two years. This is a kie mere ra,
:09:13. > :09:17.people won't be able to do this in any numbers whatsoever? That is not
:09:17. > :09:21.true, for many people, fortunately because of the Government's
:09:21. > :09:24.policies to keep interest rate low, their mortgage payments are low.
:09:24. > :09:27.And long may that continue. People are very streched? Mortgage
:09:27. > :09:32.payments are very low, what they can't afford to do is to move house,
:09:32. > :09:36.they can't afford it buy a bigger house, they can't afford to pay the
:09:36. > :09:40.stamp duetyie, not least to buy a - - duty, not least, to buy a bigger
:09:40. > :09:43.house. The opportunity to extend their house, this apply to a
:09:43. > :09:47.business too, the opportunity to extend the premises, rather than
:09:47. > :09:51.the huge extra cost of changing premises, is one that might well be
:09:51. > :09:54.attractive. People don't have the stamp duty to move, but do you
:09:54. > :09:57.think they will be confident about taking out a loan? Because it adds
:09:57. > :10:01.to the value of their house. necessarily n this climate?
:10:01. > :10:05.course it does. If you extend a house and add a bedroom because
:10:05. > :10:08.your two teenage kids no longer want to share, or you have had
:10:08. > :10:11.another baby, or your mother has come to live with you. If you add a
:10:11. > :10:14.bedroom that will add to the value of the house in the long-term.
:10:14. > :10:18.want people to get into more debt? It is not about that. It will be?
:10:18. > :10:22.It is not about that. What you are doing is singling out one measure.
:10:22. > :10:26.Which has been trumpeted by this Government, absolutely? Sorry there
:10:26. > :10:28.are seven other measures being trumpeted today. You haven't talked
:10:28. > :10:32.about the measure which is going to mean that planning permissions that
:10:32. > :10:36.have been granted that haven't been fulfilled, are going to be
:10:36. > :10:42.unblocked by removing the affordable housing component from
:10:43. > :10:46.them. You haven't talked about the guarantee of �so 10 billion about
:10:46. > :10:50.new rented housing construction, which is a very significant measure.
:10:50. > :10:54.These are component parts of a big package, which you say will deliver
:10:54. > :10:59.growth. It is significant, an Englishman's house is his castle
:10:59. > :11:02.and all that, you can't say whether any of that domestic dwelling
:11:02. > :11:05.change will deliver any growth whatsoever? With the other measures
:11:05. > :11:08.it is easier to make an estimate. It is harder with planning
:11:08. > :11:14.extensions, because how many people out there want to extend their
:11:14. > :11:19.house. What I want to put into context, given Mr Miliband's rather
:11:19. > :11:24.ludicrous attack. His entire five- point growth plan is worth �20
:11:24. > :11:29.billion, we are making available �50 billion of guarantees. His
:11:29. > :11:37.plans will go on the tax and on the borrowing of the British taxpayer,
:11:37. > :11:43.our -- payer our's draw in private funds through a guarantee. Let's
:11:43. > :11:46.talk about the plans, is the green belt sack sabgt with this coalition
:11:46. > :11:50.Government? The position on the green belt is not changing as a
:11:50. > :11:54.result of anything today. What about changing in the future, will
:11:54. > :11:58.it be sacrosanct for the length of this coalition Government? There
:11:58. > :12:00.are flexablities in the regime, that many local authorities don't
:12:00. > :12:03.understand, they were brought in. So local authorities don't
:12:03. > :12:05.understand what they are doing? They are not being fully explored
:12:05. > :12:09.by local authorities. Local authorities are sometimes worried
:12:09. > :12:13.about how it is going to work. What we are trying to remind them today,
:12:13. > :12:16.is in exceptional circumstances, only that, for instance, Cambridge
:12:16. > :12:20.has used those exceptional circumstances, in exceptional
:12:20. > :12:25.circumstances, they can, slightly change the boundaries of their
:12:25. > :12:30.green belt. Will that be changed, or will you simply be pointing out
:12:30. > :12:35.where there can be rules used that he can sis, or will you be changing
:12:35. > :12:38.the -- exist, or will you change the rules to allow more
:12:39. > :12:42.flexibility? We are pointing out that flexibility exists, and help
:12:42. > :12:44.them take advantage that have. that be policy for the rest of the
:12:44. > :12:48.coalition Government. Are you actually considering changing the
:12:48. > :12:50.rules on the green belt? I was appointed yesterday, and secondly,
:12:50. > :12:54.I'm not a member of the cabinet or the Prime Minister, I don't make
:12:54. > :12:57.policy. Right now, what we are trying to do is encourage people to
:12:57. > :13:01.use the policy. You have explained it as far as you know, as you say
:13:01. > :13:05.you are a new minister, what you did have is long held views on the
:13:05. > :13:10.planning permission. We saw you in 2010, let me repeat, December 2010
:13:10. > :13:14.do you believe that planning work? The clever people in a room can
:13:14. > :13:18.plan how communities develop, I believe it can't work, David
:13:18. > :13:24.Cameron believes it can't work and Nick Clegg. Chaotic is a good thing.
:13:24. > :13:29.Do you think everybody thinks that? Let me tell you about newly-elected
:13:29. > :13:34.MPs, we are like young children, you are an attention seeker, you
:13:34. > :13:39.are desperate to get notice from someone, and I succeeded there,
:13:39. > :13:44.given it was shown on the programme. You must be incredibly attention
:13:44. > :13:47.seeking, I want to put to you that you got a new cabinet now. You were
:13:47. > :13:52.very vociferous at the beginning about the promise of Liberal
:13:52. > :13:55.Democrats. You wrote an article in the Times, saying an electoral pact
:13:55. > :13:58.is essential to make the radical changes. Do you believe an
:13:58. > :14:03.electoral pact needed with the Liberal Democrats? I think Nick
:14:03. > :14:06.Clegg ruled it out within about two minutes of me making the proposals.
:14:06. > :14:10.Do you believe in it? I thought it was a good idea, and if Nick Clegg
:14:10. > :14:12.agreed with me, I would support it now. He didn't, he's the party
:14:12. > :14:20.leader of the Liberal Democrats. David Cameron also didn't agree
:14:20. > :14:24.with it, it's not going to happen. It is a spurious question.
:14:24. > :14:28.The euro at any price, that is the motto of the European Central Bank,
:14:28. > :14:34.it seems, Mario Draghi's plan is to hoover up Spanish and Italian bonds
:14:34. > :14:38.to try to stop those countries' debts becoming uncontrollable. Mrs
:14:38. > :14:44.Merkel appears to go going along with the carbon nan za. Is there
:14:44. > :14:49.not a danger of a moral hazard which all of Europe will end up the
:14:49. > :14:56.peer. It seems the crisis in Spain which has concentrated Mr Draghi's
:14:56. > :15:01.mind. How significant was it today?
:15:01. > :15:06.is a hugely significant moment. There is a bail out fund for Europe,
:15:06. > :15:09.it has 700 billion in the kitty, but not enough to bail out Madrid.
:15:09. > :15:17.They needed something bigger, that something bigger is to print money,
:15:17. > :15:20.via the ECB, and to use it to buy up the bonds of Italy and Spain,
:15:21. > :15:24.and anybody else who gets into trouble, on an unlimited basis. The
:15:24. > :15:29.aim is that the cost of borrowing for those countries comes down, the
:15:29. > :15:34.concern about the European banking system recedes, the ECB has had to
:15:34. > :15:37.eat a lot of humble pie do this. They are going to take junk and
:15:37. > :15:41.collateral, to keep the euro system going. They will stand back and
:15:41. > :15:48.allow themselves to stand equally in the queue for repayment of debt
:15:48. > :15:52.with anybody else, unheard of. And it is all designed to try to put a
:15:52. > :15:56.lid on the euro crisis, because nothing else has, and of course the
:15:56. > :16:00.Germans have had too, to eat a lot of humble pie, to get this done.
:16:00. > :16:06.But there it is, it is a massive move, we are all waiting to see
:16:06. > :16:09.what the next move is. Will it work, do you think? There are two
:16:09. > :16:14.obstacles to making it work, they are both political. The first one
:16:14. > :16:18.is not here in Madrid, it is in Berlin. The German politicians had
:16:18. > :16:23.to really bend over backwards to convince themselves to let this
:16:23. > :16:28.happen. They haven't let the full Monty go ahead, as it were, of
:16:28. > :16:33.quanative easing, but this is big, but the German Central Bank, the
:16:33. > :16:35.Bundesbank, issued a statement condemning the move, saying it is
:16:35. > :16:40.tantermount to financing Governments by printing bank note.
:16:40. > :16:44.Here is the problem with that. This works as long as the markets
:16:44. > :16:49.believe the European political elite are going to do it. If they
:16:49. > :16:52.believe that 100%, then it is foolish to bet against it. If they
:16:52. > :16:57.don't believe it, then some people in the markets will say this could
:16:57. > :17:03.fail, and we will sell these bonds, we don't want to touch them. And
:17:03. > :17:07.Germany, having this level of an agoism, doesn't help. Of course --
:17:07. > :17:12.antagonism, of course the other problem is Spain. Do you think
:17:13. > :17:18.Spain will go for the bail out? Mariano Rajoy, the Prime Minister
:17:18. > :17:22.said today, said we haven't asked for a bail out. He said that
:17:22. > :17:26.vehemently. Part of today's deal is to slightly soften what conditions
:17:26. > :17:30.will be attached. In future, countries that use the bail out
:17:30. > :17:34.mechanism, will not go down the route of Greece and Ireland, they
:17:34. > :17:37.will be told to adhere to some conditions, here is the money, and
:17:38. > :17:42.if you don't really do it, we will take the money away. It is not
:17:42. > :17:47.quite the same as saying you don't get the money until you do the
:17:47. > :17:51.austerity. I think that despite the softness that has been signalled to
:17:51. > :17:56.Madrid here, Mariano Rajoy, the Prime Minister, he's going to fake
:17:56. > :17:59.a long of convincing to do -- take a lot of convincing to do it. This
:17:59. > :18:06.country's entire political system has been built on the last two
:18:06. > :18:09.years of not taking this bail out. And the kind of austerity being
:18:10. > :18:14.implemented already, the resistance is growing, as I have been finding
:18:14. > :18:24.out this week. There are parts of Spain, where given the choice, they
:18:24. > :18:24.
:18:24. > :18:30.would like to make time go backwards. A small down in
:18:30. > :18:34.Andalucia, a horse fair. -- a small town in Andalucia, a horse fair. If
:18:34. > :18:39.antique lace and horses could solve things, it would be all right, but
:18:39. > :18:43.they can't, the regional Government is effectively bust, and needs a
:18:43. > :18:48.billion euros immediately. Unemployment here stands at 34% and
:18:48. > :18:53.rising. Even the comfortably well off, are surrounded by an
:18:53. > :18:57.atmosphere of rising protest. Last month, the agricultural Workers
:18:57. > :19:07.Union began raiding supermarkets and taking away food, without
:19:07. > :19:10.paying. The food is given to unemployed. The figurehead of this
:19:10. > :19:17.new movement, a local mayor, Juan Manuel Sanchez Gordillo, the name
:19:17. > :19:23.and the beard, instantly famous. Now, Gordillo and his comrades are
:19:23. > :19:26.on the march. Stirring up protest, from town-to-
:19:26. > :19:32.town, under the watchful eye of the police, determined to stop the
:19:32. > :19:37.austerity, everybody knows, is about to hit. For nearly a month
:19:37. > :19:40.now, the agricultural workers have been marching from town-to-town
:19:40. > :19:44.here in Andalucia, as with everything they do, there is an
:19:45. > :19:52.element of symbolism to this, but things in Spain are about to get
:19:52. > :19:57.deadly serious. As small farming towns echo with rhetoric and
:19:57. > :20:02.marching feet, it is clear that the Spanish crisis, and the way it is
:20:02. > :20:04.resolved, will define Europe. Tran Another Europe is necessary. The
:20:04. > :20:08.Europe of the people -- TRANSLATION: Another Europe is
:20:08. > :20:11.necessary, the Europe of the people. The Europe of the people who don't
:20:11. > :20:15.have anything, the unemployed, the poor, people who demand a new
:20:15. > :20:19.reality, people who don't have anything.
:20:19. > :20:23.Andalucia is spectacular, but spectacularly poor. The regional
:20:23. > :20:29.Government had tried to soften the spending cuts demanded by Madrid,
:20:30. > :20:34.but now it needs a bail out, and it will have to pile further job cuts
:20:34. > :20:39.and spending cuts on to those already made. Everybody here feels
:20:39. > :20:43.a crunch is coming. TRANSLATION: What we want to see change, what
:20:43. > :20:47.makes us march, is criticising the general sacking of workers, the
:20:47. > :20:53.fact that many people are losing their homes, and many people can't
:20:53. > :21:00.afford to buy food. That is why we are fighting and reaching out to
:21:00. > :21:03.all parts of society. TRANSLATION: People don't want to hear about
:21:03. > :21:07.premium risk bonds, bail out, Merkel or the European bank. People
:21:07. > :21:12.want to talk about the cost of a bottle of gas, the cost of petrol,
:21:12. > :21:16.medicine, mortgages, work, expectations. They want to talk
:21:16. > :21:20.about their problems, that is what we do.
:21:20. > :21:24.In Madrid, they know today's move by the ECB opens the way for
:21:24. > :21:29.Spain's debts to be bought up en massive scale, removing the
:21:29. > :21:34.constant threat of imminent default. But it's dependant on conditions,
:21:34. > :21:40.and the conditions will be set in a struggle between these two. Angela
:21:40. > :21:44.Merkel, who needs Spain to accept more austerity than the 65 billion
:21:44. > :21:48.already unleashed, to appease German voters, and Spanish PM,
:21:48. > :21:53.Mariano Rajoy, who still couldn't bring himself to ask for the bail
:21:53. > :21:56.out Brussels has just offered. TRANSLATION: The priorities of the
:21:56. > :22:01.Spanish Government right now are to create jobs. The first priority is
:22:01. > :22:05.that we have to continue on the path of cutting the deficit. The
:22:05. > :22:10.next is to continue the structural reforms, then rebuild the banking
:22:10. > :22:16.sector. And in the next few weeks, we will have more detail on changes
:22:16. > :22:22.to the banking sector. But, even if the Spanish people do accept the
:22:22. > :22:25.conditions, say pundits here, the whole process has created cracks in
:22:25. > :22:29.the political system, that look dangerous. TRANSLATION: There is a
:22:29. > :22:32.problem with the loss of credibility, by the political class
:22:32. > :22:36.in Spain. That doesn't mean that eight months into the Government
:22:36. > :22:42.Rajoy will pay the price. They have to be closer to the people, to know
:22:42. > :22:49.what's going Onyango the street. Cut spending in a more -- going on
:22:49. > :22:52.on the street. Cut spending in a different way. They have to tighten
:22:52. > :22:58.their belts. There are large numbers of people, especially among
:22:58. > :23:02.the young, who intend to prove it wrong. The Spanish Occupy movement
:23:02. > :23:06.gave a foretaste of the anger that will greet any bail out bill. It
:23:06. > :23:10.won't be only the radicals, with Spain's regions going bust, one by
:23:11. > :23:15.one, this month is set to see huge protests over budget cuts organised
:23:15. > :23:19.by nationalists. The fear is, as in Greece, that this unites the left
:23:19. > :23:22.and right, in opposition to the last-ditch rescue plan of the
:23:22. > :23:25.political centre. Technically the strikes and demonstrations of the
:23:25. > :23:28.past two years have achieved nothing. But throughout that time,
:23:29. > :23:33.the Spanish Government successive Governments, have had to insist
:23:33. > :23:37.Spain will never go to the EU for a bail out. Now they have to. For
:23:37. > :23:47.many of the people here, this is not the end, but the start of the
:23:47. > :23:52.
:23:52. > :23:56.fight against austerity. Back in Andalucia, mayor Gordillo
:23:56. > :24:00.is about to find out whether rhetoric and civil disobedience can
:24:00. > :24:07.stop the Spanish Government, the bond market and the ECB. The town
:24:07. > :24:12.he runs is famous as a self- proclaimed, left-wing utopia.
:24:12. > :24:19.Farmers here fought for, and won control of the land in the 1990s.
:24:19. > :24:24.They built their own houses, there was no property boom, and no bust.
:24:24. > :24:29.The town of Marinaleda symbolised one part of the dream that many
:24:29. > :24:33.Spanish bought. The social Europe consisting with the old
:24:33. > :24:39.Conservative traditions. The Spanish press has compared Gordillo
:24:40. > :24:43.to Robin Hood, he himself prefers the Scottish rebel, William Wallace.
:24:43. > :24:51.TRANSLATION: I think he was a true revolutionary, who came from the
:24:51. > :24:59.lower class and fought and demanded a change for his people. He was
:24:59. > :25:06.defeated, though! TRANSLATION: you always have winners and losers
:25:06. > :25:11.in the struggle, the battle you never lose is the battle for utopia.
:25:11. > :25:14.In truth, it's not Gordillo and his utopia the politicians need to
:25:14. > :25:19.worry about, it is ordinary Spanish people, and their reality. The dye
:25:19. > :25:23.is now cast for a full Spanish bail out, and the conditions attached
:25:24. > :25:27.will bring drastic changes to the way people live. And their concern
:25:27. > :25:31.is obvious. TRANSLATION: Somebody had to do something, we should have
:25:31. > :25:35.more Gordillo, there should be more like him, Andalucia is a beautiful
:25:35. > :25:38.place, we can't go on this way, with more and more unemployment and
:25:39. > :25:44.hunger. This region has so much in its favour, but we are becoming
:25:44. > :25:51.increasingly poor. TRANSLATION: don't respect his ideas, but I do
:25:51. > :25:55.respect him, he's a loader, you have to respect that. And political
:25:55. > :25:59.leadership has been the problem. Spanish politicians now have to
:25:59. > :26:03.lead an austerity drive that will bite into the incomes of core
:26:03. > :26:08.voters, and in places like this, as regional budgets are slashed, into
:26:08. > :26:15.the soul of local identity. Spain's strategic problems can't be side
:26:15. > :26:20.stepped any more. With me in the studio, Gillian Tett, the assistant
:26:20. > :26:25.editor of the FT. Helena Morrissey, the CEO of Newton investment bank,
:26:25. > :26:30.Emma Duncan, the deputy editor of the Economist, and Muntaha
:26:30. > :26:34.Mashayekh Professor of economics at university of Sussex.
:26:34. > :26:37.They say they have been resisting the bail out for two years, do you
:26:37. > :26:40.think it is inevitable? It is moving that way, but politically
:26:40. > :26:43.and economically it is very difficult. The crucial thing to
:26:43. > :26:46.understand about what is happening today, Mario Draghi has bought the
:26:46. > :26:50.eurozone time, we don't know what the eurozone is going to do with
:26:50. > :26:54.that time. Will they actually put down the preconditions to create a
:26:54. > :26:58.eurozone that work, by creating some form of banking and fiscal
:26:58. > :27:02.union, some kind of growth strategy, and above all else, a system that
:27:02. > :27:08.ordinary people can actually believe in, or will it just be more
:27:08. > :27:14.fudging and failed bail outs. fudging, we hear the Bundesbank is
:27:15. > :27:18.dead set against this? This is a major problem, and can torpedo the
:27:18. > :27:23.whole thing, it is so much on market confidence. Draghi announced
:27:23. > :27:26.there was one dissenter behind the decision. Everybody assumed it was
:27:26. > :27:29.pretty clear that it was the Bundesbank President. I think we
:27:29. > :27:32.are treading on a knife edge. Today's decision, while it does
:27:33. > :27:37.suggest there has been something of a think, that is a new development
:27:38. > :27:42.about a fiscal or sharing of the fiscal burden. Obviously ultimately
:27:42. > :27:45.this means a backstop across Europe, it does come at a price. It doesn't
:27:45. > :27:49.solve the economic problems, as we have seen in Spain and other
:27:49. > :27:52.countries. How difficult do you think the Bundesbank is? I think it
:27:52. > :27:59.is a huge issue. I think what Draghi has done is really
:27:59. > :28:04.significant. I think it could be incredibly positive. He has done
:28:04. > :28:08.something quite interesting and subtle, he has given two channels
:28:08. > :28:12.for countries that want to seek bond buying. One is the rather
:28:12. > :28:16.unpleasant one, the Portuguese and Greeks have been through, where
:28:16. > :28:21.teams of people turn up and tell you how to run your country. But he
:28:21. > :28:25.has also done this much, much gent letter precautionary route, for
:28:25. > :28:29.countries like Spain and Italy, who can come along and say, we are
:28:30. > :28:34.doing pretty much what you want, can you sort us out. The idea is
:28:34. > :28:39.that should be politically much less toxic for someone like Rajoy.
:28:39. > :28:43.Look what he's facing in Andalucia, this is just the start of it?
:28:43. > :28:53.is true, as far as the ECB is concerned, Rajoy is doing exactly
:28:53. > :28:53.
:28:53. > :28:56.what he ought to be doing on reform. If the ECB is undermined in
:28:56. > :29:00.confidence before this thing is started, it is difficult to see how
:29:00. > :29:05.it will work. Merkel has to get these guys under control.
:29:05. > :29:08.Interesting that Angela Merkel gave it a following wind, that clearly
:29:08. > :29:11.wasn't enough to sign the Bundesbank? The real change is it
:29:11. > :29:16.becomes a self-fulfiling prophesy, one of the reasons the Bundesbank
:29:16. > :29:21.is so scared, they think if you allow this to happen, you will be
:29:21. > :29:25.having this constant demand for these direct and indirect bail out
:29:25. > :29:28.mechanisms, by imposing these conditions in order for the
:29:28. > :29:33.outright transmission mechanism, that is what he has called it today,
:29:33. > :29:39.to work, these conditions are all about austerity, which will not
:29:39. > :29:43.allow the "Goldman Sachs pigs", Ireland, Greece, Spain to grow. So
:29:43. > :29:48.you might get into the constant mechanism of requiring the bail out.
:29:48. > :29:52.Is this more likely to hasten a Greek exit, do you think? We could
:29:52. > :29:57.see a vicious spiral situation. I think at the moment we are treading
:29:58. > :30:01.on that knife edge. And the markets rallied, everyone liked it, it was
:30:01. > :30:06.a relief, perhaps we got something further than people were expecting,
:30:06. > :30:10.but it is not over yesterday. markets rallied, if you talk to
:30:10. > :30:15.traders today, people were joking that OMT, outstanding market
:30:16. > :30:20.transactions, stands for "on my tap", basically meaning that
:30:20. > :30:25.Germany is now the lender of last resort, and the political tensions
:30:25. > :30:32.behind that are growing. Germany being the lender of last resort,
:30:32. > :30:35.aka in this majority of the ECB. German people, are they going to
:30:35. > :30:39.rise up against this, or realise how much it will affect them?
:30:39. > :30:43.Looking at the film about Spain, it would be interesting if you
:30:43. > :30:47.conducted a referendum across the eurozone and asked voters if they
:30:47. > :30:51.wanted the eurozone right now. The sense protest is rising day by day.
:30:51. > :30:54.It is too early to say whether this will make a difference? There is an
:30:54. > :30:58.interesting poll of German voters as compared to other European
:30:58. > :31:02.voters. German voters are incredibly sceptical about the
:31:03. > :31:08.ability of any of the peripheral countries to hold it together.
:31:08. > :31:14.German voter, compared to French ones. Merkel is torn, she's in this
:31:14. > :31:17.unbelievably difficult position. There is the central poll of German
:31:17. > :31:21.post-war policy, which is European unity, Franco-German alliance,
:31:21. > :31:27.holding this thing together. On the other hand, she has her voters,
:31:27. > :31:30.disappearing, losing confidence. She made that change, didn't she?
:31:30. > :31:34.Angela Merkel, from her position, to say, not even to stand back, but
:31:34. > :31:40.to actually actively say that she supported this? Absolutely. I think
:31:40. > :31:44.that was very significant, that was a dramatic shift on her part.
:31:44. > :31:47.only difficulty now is who is winning from all of this? I think
:31:47. > :31:50.the whole eurozone concept was clearly built on a house of sand,
:31:50. > :31:54.we haven't had fiscal union, we haven't had political union, we
:31:54. > :31:58.have had monetary union, it hasn't worked, we seem to be prolonging
:31:58. > :32:02.the inevitable. House of sand? haven't had the growth union. Both
:32:02. > :32:07.the German people, and commentators in this country, you always hear
:32:07. > :32:11.this story about some how that the problem in Greece and Italy was
:32:11. > :32:15.they were going fiscal and irresponsible and spending too much.
:32:15. > :32:20.If you look at the Spanish deficit before the cry he is, Italy, also
:32:20. > :32:22.had a low deficit, it wasn't spending all the places Germany has
:32:22. > :32:25.been spending. You do want conditions, but what kind of
:32:25. > :32:29.conditions. The conditions we should be asking for are that
:32:29. > :32:35.Greece actually develop the kind of institutions, for example, that
:32:35. > :32:40.Germany has, by includes institutes, eye R & D spending, patient finance.
:32:40. > :32:43.Who has managed to deal with the austerity deliver some growth?
:32:43. > :32:47.some ways one country which has managed to walk the tight rope
:32:47. > :32:51.better than many has been a country like Ireland. That is partly
:32:51. > :32:54.because they are reallyively unified, and they have a level of
:32:54. > :32:58.social cohesion, it has been very painful, and they are not out of
:32:58. > :33:03.the woods yet. It is very hard to look at positive inspiring examples
:33:03. > :33:07.at the moment. Germany is producing growth, but doing so in a poisonous
:33:07. > :33:12.political climate now. We do need more growth stimulus out of Germany,
:33:12. > :33:16.we have this huge adjustment that has to happen in Europe, which is
:33:16. > :33:21.that basically the wages of the overborrowed countries have to fall
:33:21. > :33:24.in relation to Germany's. Because that's the big imbalance, the big
:33:24. > :33:29.problem that has happened. That is not necessarily a problem here.
:33:29. > :33:32.What will deliver growth, as Nick Boles said, we talked about one
:33:32. > :33:37.area that will help to deliver growth, he said. The other big ones
:33:37. > :33:42.are the infrastructure plans and so forth. Also the pension funds are
:33:42. > :33:45.desperate to invest somewhere, they need these big infrastructure
:33:45. > :33:49.projects? You can't completely generalise, but I think it is a
:33:49. > :33:54.good idea to have. We obviously have an antiquated infrastructure,
:33:54. > :33:59.ma many parts, whether it is roads, or whether it is utilities, there
:33:59. > :34:04.is a lot that needs investment. Pension funds want long, stable
:34:04. > :34:09.cashflows. As came up earlier, we need a stable regulatory background.
:34:09. > :34:12.We won't hand the money for a 30- year project and the rules get
:34:12. > :34:20.changed by an in coming Government. There has to be careful planning on
:34:20. > :34:24.how this could work. Negative 0.5% growth? I do think that you were
:34:24. > :34:28.slightly teasing Nick Boles about his conservatories, but I'm afraid
:34:28. > :34:31.that is a really sharp illustration with the whole problem with
:34:31. > :34:36.infrastructure. You want infrastructure you have to have big
:34:36. > :34:40.stuff. You need big roads, third runways. Power stations, and all
:34:40. > :34:44.sorts of things? You need house building. You need large scale
:34:44. > :34:47.house buildings. In the 1930s, our economies jump started out of
:34:47. > :34:53.depression by massive house building. Which you still see all
:34:53. > :35:00.over the country. To do that you have to deal with story nimbyism,
:35:00. > :35:04.and deal with the green belt. back to Nick Boles, he said as of
:35:04. > :35:08.now the policy is the green belt holds with some exceptions. But
:35:09. > :35:12.didn't say if it would change? is a key issue, but the good news,
:35:12. > :35:17.if you like, in the UK and the western world in general, there is
:35:17. > :35:20.an awful lot unused capital in the system. Financial markets are not
:35:20. > :35:24.short of money. Pension funds are sitting on large pots of money,
:35:24. > :35:30.particularly in the UK. We are unusual in having a large pension
:35:30. > :35:35.industry with a lot of pension funds that need long-term assets to
:35:35. > :35:39.invest in. If only you could match up the demand for investment with
:35:39. > :35:44.projects. You say we elect politicians, we have armies of
:35:44. > :35:47.pensions and the CBI, why is nobody doing it? Here is the problem, our
:35:47. > :35:50.system is so centralised, that any local authority that gives
:35:50. > :35:53.permission for the building of a local housing he state, doesn't get
:35:53. > :35:57.any benefit of that. All the cash goes straight back into the
:35:57. > :36:01.Treasury. If we had a more decentralised fiscal system in this
:36:01. > :36:06.country, then there would be an incentive for local authorities to
:36:06. > :36:10.give permission for stuff. I would say, just to defend what's out
:36:10. > :36:16.there already, there are projects that have bonded which we buy into,
:36:16. > :36:20.and there are infrastructure fund, it is a tiny market. It is 2.5% of
:36:20. > :36:26.all the pension funds' assets. I think there is an appetite. You can
:36:26. > :36:33.get 1.5% on a ten-year gilt, it not enough for feingsers. We need a
:36:33. > :36:40.decent return, but -- pensioners. We need a decent return. The money
:36:40. > :36:44.is there, there is �1. -- over $1 trillion in the US and more than
:36:44. > :36:46.that here. This Government needs to show what they think drives
:36:46. > :36:50.business and investment, is basically getting the state out of
:36:50. > :36:54.the way. If you go to the Business Innovation and Skills department in
:36:54. > :37:02.Victoria Street, it says Great Britain is open to innovation, with
:37:02. > :37:08.the lowest tax and lowest regulation. You have to spend money
:37:08. > :37:14.for that, rather than just take away red tape. It is called Africa
:37:14. > :37:18.Express, one of the most bizarre and successful musical events of
:37:18. > :37:24.the year. 80 African musicians are travelling in a special train,
:37:24. > :37:31.stopping off for concerts and free Pop Up events, with music they
:37:31. > :37:40.create on the train. Damon Albarn is on board, with Baaba Maal and
:37:40. > :37:45.other guests, they gave exclusive access to the journey. This is a
:37:45. > :37:49.tour that breaks all the known rules of the music industry. Over
:37:49. > :37:53.80 musician, some very famous, some virtually unknown in Britain, but
:37:53. > :37:58.stars in Africa. Touring the country in a chartered train, in a
:37:58. > :38:01.venture costing �500,000. But there are no headliner, some events are
:38:01. > :38:10.planned at the very last minute and they decide who is playing what,
:38:10. > :38:14.and with whom, after non-stop rehearsals on the train itself. One
:38:14. > :38:21.carriage is laid out as a studio, complete with mixing desk, and
:38:21. > :38:26.musicians playing from the moment we left Middlesborough. In this
:38:26. > :38:30.session, guitarist Romeo Stodart from the Magic Number, and the
:38:30. > :38:35.wildly enthusiastic Damon Albarn, whose other projects this summer
:38:35. > :38:41.were an opera and a Blur reunion. He has been a key figure in all
:38:41. > :38:47.past Africa Express events, from Mali and the Congo to west Africa.
:38:47. > :38:50.This train trip is the most ambitious, high-profile event to
:38:50. > :38:57.date. It is nothing but music and communication. It isn't a person,
:38:57. > :39:02.it isn't a group of people. It is an idea.
:39:02. > :39:08.Really I think the level of musicianship is just, for me, this
:39:08. > :39:13.is the best one. I just think everyone knows what it is about now.
:39:13. > :39:19.So it attracts people who want to participate. That is amazing, it is
:39:19. > :39:24.a relief for everyone to just be musicians, nothing really sort of
:39:24. > :39:28.getting in the way of just when you want to make music on a day, just
:39:28. > :39:38.make it, whatever it is at that moment, it is very therapeutic.
:39:38. > :39:44.Just a few carriages away, there is another impromptu session. This one
:39:44. > :39:54.involving one of Africa's greatest star, Baba Mal from Senegal, who we
:39:54. > :40:23.
:40:23. > :40:27.found singing with Jupiter, the In this journey, it is not just
:40:28. > :40:33.music, or classic music, it is young ones, the famous ones, the
:40:33. > :40:37.less famous one, all together. People waking up and going beyond
:40:37. > :40:41.the stages of music together, thinking and travelling together
:40:41. > :40:46.into a wonderful journey. This is unlike any music event I have ever
:40:46. > :40:50.been to, none of the artists are being paid, though they do get a
:40:50. > :40:54.small allowance, and they are not here to promote new singles, or
:40:54. > :40:57.albums or product, different musicians from Africa, Britain and
:40:57. > :41:05.different age groups are all playing together in musical
:41:05. > :41:10.combination, the aim is to create a positive image for Africa.
:41:10. > :41:13.Crazy collaborations, the jamming, you know. We go to so many
:41:13. > :41:19.festivals and you meet so many people, you hardly ever have a
:41:19. > :41:22.chance to mess around with them. This is a lot of fun for me.
:41:22. > :41:26.best-selling young English hip hop Popstars, Rizzle Kicks, were
:41:26. > :41:33.clearly having a good time. It was one of the best nights of my life,
:41:33. > :41:41.I reckon. The best night of your life? One of them. Why? It was just
:41:42. > :41:45.like, I can't explain, the amount of positivity, and musical energy
:41:45. > :41:49.and vibe that was there, it was impossible not to be happy about
:41:49. > :41:53.being part of that experience, and a side of that we got to share the
:41:53. > :42:01.stage with some musicians we respect and idolise. The train has
:42:01. > :42:04.everything from a yoga teacher. you To a meeting room and luggage
:42:04. > :42:08.wagon. Ian Birrell, journalist and former David Cameron speechwriter,
:42:08. > :42:16.was involved in raising money for the trip. Around half the cost is
:42:16. > :42:20.paid by the cullal Olympiad. need to have planning to give space
:42:20. > :42:24.-- Cultural Olympiad. You need to have planning in the chaos and give
:42:24. > :42:29.space for the hotels. I didn't know where you go to hire a train, for
:42:29. > :42:34.instance. The first Africa Express jaunt, six years ago, was to the
:42:34. > :42:38.desert state of Mali, a country famous for its ancient culture and
:42:38. > :42:42.music. Today Mali is in chaos, after a coup in the capital, with
:42:42. > :42:49.two-thirds of the country, now controlled by Islamic groups,
:42:49. > :42:54.wildly opposed to events like this. No-one wants to live under such
:42:54. > :42:58.semi-medieval ideas, it is just not acceptable. Personally, I think,
:42:58. > :43:05.they are a democracy, and they should have a say in their whole
:43:05. > :43:09.country. If they want to have it, then they all should agree to go it
:43:09. > :43:16.together. Many in the west only know about
:43:16. > :43:21.Male and its history through the work of its extraordinary musicians
:43:21. > :43:27.like Rokia Traore, yet music is now banned in part of the country.
:43:27. > :43:33.is really sad, and I don't want to but I can't do nothing against that.
:43:33. > :43:42.The only thing I can do is to keep going on working, do it the best
:43:42. > :43:49.way my work, and trying to make people think good things of Mali,
:43:49. > :43:57.and seeing good things from Mali. Many in the west were introduced to
:43:57. > :44:02.Mali music through the singing and player through the blind duo, Amado
:44:02. > :44:08.and Marion. He has become friends with Romeo Stodart, they have
:44:08. > :44:12.guitar playing, but no language in common. TRANSLATION: It works well,
:44:12. > :44:17.it is a great pleasure sharing music, the fact that we are two
:44:18. > :44:24.guitarists playing together is enriching. I would say Romeo, and
:44:24. > :44:28.he's like sava, and we are off, in Leeds we were in a room two hours
:44:28. > :44:33.just playing, and then there is a kind of, it is talking, you let
:44:33. > :44:40.someone have the chance to play, and then you know, you say, go for
:44:40. > :44:44.it, and I don't know. It is something unique. In Glasgow, many
:44:44. > :44:49.of the musicians appeared at a series of free pop-up events across
:44:49. > :44:59.the city. With Amadu and Romeo playing at very short notice to
:44:59. > :45:03.
:45:03. > :45:06.schoolchildren out at Easter House. What did you think that have?
:45:06. > :45:12.was different. What do you make that have? It was quite good.
:45:12. > :45:17.was good about it? I liked the drums. Do you ever see stuff like
:45:17. > :45:27.this at Easter House? No. But we have some parties about our country
:45:27. > :45:27.
:45:27. > :45:33.and we play this kind of music in some parties. The full cast
:45:33. > :45:40.appeared for a four-and-a-half hour concert at the arches under Glasgow
:45:40. > :45:45.Central Station. With dam Monday, Traore and others together for
:45:45. > :45:49.Melancholy Hill. When it comes to record sales, the music industry is
:45:49. > :45:54.in crisis, but Africa Express proves there is nothing more
:45:54. > :46:03.excited or creative than live music. There is a special finale near
:46:03. > :46:13.King's Cross station in London on Saturday.
:46:13. > :46:28.
:46:28. > :46:36.That was the Africa Express. That's all from Newsnight tonight,
:46:36. > :46:46.Emily will be here tomorrow, until Emily will be here tomorrow, until
:46:46. > :47:05.
:47:05. > :47:10.It's going to get warmer over the next few days. We start Friday with
:47:10. > :47:13.a lot of clouds and rain and drizzle in Scotland, Northern
:47:13. > :47:17.Ireland and North West England. Most of it petering out. The sunny
:47:17. > :47:19.skies will be further south and east across the UK. Contrasts in
:47:19. > :47:22.northern England, North West England will be cloudy and damp to
:47:23. > :47:27.the east of the Pennine, sheltered from the westerly wind. It should
:47:27. > :47:31.be a warmer day in the sunshine across the Midlands, East Anglia
:47:31. > :47:35.and the south-east. For the south west of England, after a bit of a
:47:35. > :47:38.misty start, that will lift, we will get increasing amounts of
:47:38. > :47:42.sunshine, fine and dry into the afternoon as well. Wales seeing
:47:42. > :47:45.most of the sunshine, always better in the east, because of the
:47:45. > :47:49.westerly breeze, feeling moisture and clouds towards the west coast,
:47:49. > :47:54.cloudy day for Northern Ireland. Best chance of sunshine is in
:47:54. > :47:57.Antrim and Down, the south west of Scotland stays cooler and grey, and
:47:57. > :48:02.rather damp. But for the north eastern half of Scotland we should
:48:02. > :48:06.get sunshine. Cloudy as you can see there in Belfast on Friday.
:48:06. > :48:09.Hopefully a bit more sunshine on Saturday. A bit of a struggle in
:48:09. > :48:13.Edinburgh, Manchester improving as we head into the weekend. The sunny
:48:13. > :48:16.skies will be further south, it is here we will see the highest