:00:14. > :00:17.Fiona Bone was 32 years old with five years service. The second
:00:17. > :00:21.officer to die was Nicola Hughes, 26 years old, with three years
:00:21. > :00:26.service. There has never been a killing like
:00:26. > :00:31.it in this country. As the body of the second young policewoman was
:00:31. > :00:34.removed this evening, what lay behind today's appalling events. We
:00:34. > :00:40.have been hearing the details of what has been a brutal and shocking
:00:40. > :00:46.end to a violent summer of guns and grenades across Greater Manchester.
:00:46. > :00:49.NATO steps back from two too close engagment with the Afghan Army. The
:00:49. > :00:52.decision seems to have caused confusion in London and Washington.
:00:53. > :01:02.What about the effects on the ground in Afghanistan. Mitt Romney
:01:03. > :01:10.
:01:10. > :01:20.tries to take his foot out of his Can it be true, one half of America
:01:20. > :01:21.
:01:21. > :01:25.pays no tax and the other half they live off. In Kenya, elections are
:01:25. > :01:32.six months away. TRANSLATION: torched the houses, the others
:01:32. > :01:40.carried off the injured, and the others whose job was just to kill.
:01:40. > :01:43.Shocking, senseless, inxes henceable, the adjectives catch the
:01:43. > :01:50.bafflement of police officers and politicians. The shooting dead of
:01:50. > :01:54.two police officers in Manchester where shock is the dominant feeling.
:01:54. > :01:58.The questions remain, how can Britain remain one of the few
:01:58. > :02:03.countries in the world where police are unarmed. And how have guns
:02:03. > :02:08.become so readily available to the wrong people. We're near the seen
:02:08. > :02:13.in Hattersley. -- the scene in Hattersley. Guns,
:02:13. > :02:19.grenades and gangland feuds and a criminal conspiracy to intimidate
:02:19. > :02:24.witness and protect the guilty. All that was laid out by the Chief
:02:24. > :02:30.Constable of Greater Manchester, Peter Fahy, in Anne attempt to put
:02:30. > :02:35.-- in an attempt to put into context what has been happening in
:02:35. > :02:39.Manchester over the last few week. But nothing to today's
:02:39. > :02:42.extraordinary circumstances where two young policewomen were killed.
:02:42. > :02:47.One witness who arrived at the scene after hearing gunshots said
:02:47. > :02:53.it all seemed unreal, then he saw the abandoned police car with the
:02:53. > :02:57.blue light still flashing. Sir Peter Fahy likes to quote Sir
:02:57. > :03:01.Robert Peel, saying "the police are the public and the public the
:03:01. > :03:06.police", if that is the case, then tonight both are striken. It had
:03:06. > :03:09.been a normal quiet morning on this Manchester suburb, the violence was
:03:09. > :03:13.so sudden, unexpected and quite savage. By mid-afternoon the Chief
:03:13. > :03:17.Constable was in mourning, and trying to make sense of it all.
:03:17. > :03:25.Clearly this is one of the darkest days in the history of Greater
:03:25. > :03:28.Manchester Police, if not the police service overall. Because we
:03:28. > :03:34.have lost two deeply-loved and valued colleagues, because they are
:03:34. > :03:39.part of our team, policing is very much a family. Fiona Bone was 32,
:03:39. > :03:44.calm and gentle, she was called, she had been planning her wedding.
:03:44. > :03:48.Nicola Hughes was 23, bubbly and always smiling. Both were described
:03:48. > :03:53.as great bobbies, good people. want to look beyond the uniform
:03:53. > :03:58.here, what we have here are two young girls, who went out this
:03:58. > :04:04.morning, and they have got an absolute right to come home tonight
:04:04. > :04:08.to their loved ones. This is cold blooded murder, it is the slaughter
:04:08. > :04:12.of the innocent. What happened of the two policewomen, unarmed, were
:04:12. > :04:18.answering what was supposed to be a routine call to a supposed burglary.
:04:18. > :04:23.Down the road there in Abbey Gardens. Now, one theory is they
:04:23. > :04:31.were deliberately lured into an ambush. 13 gunshots were fired, and
:04:31. > :04:35.then, incredibly, a grenade of thrown. A local window cleaner,
:04:35. > :04:39.Warren Shepherd, heard the whole thing. I was out the front and I
:04:39. > :04:44.just heard gunshots, it sounded like at least 10, one after each
:04:44. > :04:48.other, and then a small delay, five seconds and a big bang. So, you
:04:48. > :04:54.were about 20 yards away, you went around to the front of the house
:04:54. > :04:58.then? I was cleaning the front of a house, and I went around the back
:04:58. > :05:02.to see what it were. That is when I saw the police car, just one police
:05:02. > :05:06.car there, the lights were still going, I think the engine was still
:05:07. > :05:11.going. And there was quite a few local residents around. And I said
:05:11. > :05:16.what was that bang, what's happened, one of them said to me they have
:05:16. > :05:20.been shot. I said who has been shot, the policemen they said, they have
:05:20. > :05:26.been killed. Dale Cregan is the man the police have been hunting for
:05:26. > :05:29.months for incidents like this, where a hand grenade was thrown in
:05:29. > :05:35.Manchester. They offered a �50,000 reward for information. This
:05:36. > :05:40.followed a shooting in a pub of Mark Short who was in his 20s, and
:05:40. > :05:47.then the murder and grenade attack of his father, 46-year-old David
:05:47. > :05:50.Short, at his Manchester home. Short was killed in Droylsden, and
:05:50. > :05:53.ever since then the residents have been terrified because of the
:05:53. > :05:56.criminal activities going on in the past weeks. After the shooting in
:05:56. > :06:01.Droylsden, members of the public were left shaken and scared and
:06:01. > :06:04.fearful as to what was going on. This was a normal pub where the
:06:04. > :06:09.attack happened? Working men's pub, people going after work for a drink.
:06:09. > :06:15.His father was killed in August? was, he was killed at a home in
:06:15. > :06:19.Clayton, in quite a brutal, targeted attack, so the GMP have
:06:19. > :06:24.said. Using hand grenades? Yes, it is not every day a hand grenade is
:06:24. > :06:29.launched in England. In the past six weeks there has been four cases
:06:30. > :06:33.of grenade explosions. We believe he has been protected by criminal
:06:33. > :06:40.conspiracy to harbour him, we are absolutely determined to fully
:06:40. > :06:45.investigate that conspiracy, and bring the people involved to book.
:06:45. > :06:50.This case tells us something about the nature of organised crime, the
:06:50. > :06:56.web of intimidation that it creates. And the fact that people then
:06:56. > :06:58.sometimes see others as folk heros. Dale Cregan gave himself up,
:06:58. > :07:03.walking into a police station in Hyde this afternoon. The Prime
:07:03. > :07:09.Minister was, meanwhile, expressing his horror at the day's events.
:07:09. > :07:14.What we have seen is just an absolutely despicable act, one of
:07:14. > :07:18.pure evil, the cold-blooded murder of two female police officers doing
:07:18. > :07:22.their job, out there, protecting the public. Another reminder of the
:07:22. > :07:26.incredible risks and great work our police service does. As the Chief
:07:26. > :07:31.Constable said, two policewomen killed in cold blood. He called it
:07:31. > :07:36.one of the darkest days in the had history of the Greater Manchester
:07:36. > :07:41.force. In fact, few forces anywhere in the land have had worse than
:07:41. > :07:45.this. The local MP Jonathan Reynolds, and inspector Ian Hanson,
:07:45. > :07:48.chairman of the Greater Manchester Police Federation are joining us
:07:48. > :07:53.from Manchester. Jonathan Reynolds, can you tell us what sort of an
:07:54. > :07:59.area is this where the crime took place? It is a strong community, it
:07:59. > :08:01.is a good area, good people here. A mixed area, as you would expect,
:08:01. > :08:06.like most parts of Greater Manchester. There is a profound
:08:06. > :08:10.sense of shock and disbelief here tonight. It is very hard to
:08:10. > :08:14.comprehend what has gone on here, it is not an area with a
:08:14. > :08:17.particularly high crime rate to neighbouring areas, it has a good
:08:17. > :08:21.relationship with the neighbourhood police. It is an absolute shock
:08:21. > :08:24.something has happened like this today. There is clearly an on going
:08:24. > :08:27.problem with organised crime in the Greater Manchester area, the Chief
:08:27. > :08:30.Constable talked today. It was striking, he talked about the
:08:30. > :08:37.nature of organised crime, the level of intimidation it create,
:08:37. > :08:42.the fact that people sometimes see others as folk heros for being
:08:42. > :08:46.involved in that sort of activity. What is he talking about? Well, I
:08:46. > :08:51.think the high-profile nature of the crimes associated with this
:08:52. > :08:55.individual does attract, sometimes, negative publicity. I would say
:08:55. > :08:58.that actually Greater Manchester Police have a very good record of
:08:58. > :09:01.reducing violent crime, particularly gun-related incidents
:09:01. > :09:05.in Greater Manchester. They have done a tremendous job over the last
:09:05. > :09:09.ten years in particular. It would be among to malign Manchester with
:09:09. > :09:13.gun crime again. The Chief Constable, I think, spoke correctly,
:09:13. > :09:16.when he said you have to alienate, or certainly tackle anyone who
:09:16. > :09:20.voices any kind of support for these actions. Nobody wants this
:09:20. > :09:23.kind of thing to happen in their community. It is absolutely
:09:23. > :09:27.dreadful, and no-one should at all celebrate or look to admire people
:09:27. > :09:31.involved in this kind of thing. is very unusual, in this country,
:09:32. > :09:37.for a man to commit a double murder, then to be on the run for as many
:09:37. > :09:45.week as this man was, for there to be a �50,000 reward, which illicits
:09:45. > :09:49.no information, it is odd, isn't it? It is, there was a huge manhunt
:09:49. > :09:54.for this individual, it had taken over 40 days, but there was a huge
:09:54. > :09:57.amount of police resources into it. A great many properties already
:09:57. > :10:00.searched and firearms warrants executed. It was their number one
:10:00. > :10:03.priority, I certainly got the impression they were doing
:10:03. > :10:07.everything they could, but Greater Manchester is a big area, there was
:10:07. > :10:11.obviously no intelligence linking him to this address here, and no
:10:11. > :10:16.reason to believe this was something other than a routine
:10:16. > :10:21.callout when this occurred. That is the result of the tragedy we have
:10:21. > :10:24.seen today. Do you happen to know if any more information has been
:10:24. > :10:28.forth coming since the tragedy occurred? There was no information
:10:28. > :10:32.that this address had any link to the person wanted for the original
:10:32. > :10:34.murders. Had there been, a risk assessment would have been done,
:10:34. > :10:37.and unarmed officers wouldn't have been deployed. From the information
:10:37. > :10:41.we have got, there is no criticism in that respect. Can you help us in
:10:41. > :10:45.a point of information, if a couple of officers are sent out to inquire
:10:45. > :10:51.into a burglary, as this was said to be, what protection do they
:10:51. > :10:57.carry with them? Well, what we have to do really is look at the facts
:10:57. > :11:02.of the incident, GMP handles thousands of incidents a day, the
:11:02. > :11:06.Tameside division, a busy division, handles several hundred incidents
:11:06. > :11:10.per day. We can't deploy armed police officers to every incident
:11:10. > :11:15.in Tameside, whatever the specter in the background is. The price of
:11:15. > :11:20.these officers being deployed, there would have been a risk
:11:20. > :11:25.assessment, hindsight is a wonderful thing. There is no words
:11:25. > :11:30.to express theoror -- horrors that has descended on Greater Manchester,
:11:30. > :11:33.I don't think it is the time to be pointing fingers. I wasn't dreaming
:11:33. > :11:37.of pointing a finger, I don't think anybody is. You raise the question
:11:38. > :11:42.of armed officers, why is it that within the police there is such
:11:42. > :11:46.opposition to the idea of carrying weapons? I think it is something of
:11:46. > :11:52.a cultural thing. We in the British police service are proud of
:11:52. > :12:01.policing with consent. We are born out of communities, we police
:12:01. > :12:05.communities and we are part of those communities. Today is making
:12:05. > :12:09.us take a cold, hard look at ourselves. I know the media today
:12:09. > :12:14.have been asking questions about an armed Police Service, today isn't
:12:14. > :12:18.the day for that debate. It is time to grieve and move the force on, we
:12:19. > :12:23.have to police the city tomorrow. There will be a tribute to the
:12:23. > :12:28.officers today who paid the ultimate price, if we pick
:12:28. > :12:31.ourselves up and a move on in on their behalf. There is still
:12:31. > :12:37.considerable shock? This is unprecedented. Sadly the British
:12:37. > :12:41.Police Service does see officers pay the ultimate sacrifice with an
:12:41. > :12:48.unfortunate regularity, something like this, is completely off the
:12:48. > :12:54.scale. There is no script for this. Greater Manchester police officers,
:12:54. > :13:00.and everyone part of GMP is numb. We don't know how to deal with it.
:13:00. > :13:03.We will pick ourselves up and move on. Mr Reynolds, in the broader
:13:03. > :13:08.community? The community is in absolute shock here, I agree, I
:13:08. > :13:12.don't think today is the debate for the wider implications of this. I
:13:12. > :13:15.think nothing can provide an answer to why something like this happens.
:13:15. > :13:18.No-one can explain why someone would be driven to do this. But I
:13:18. > :13:21.just hope there is some comfort for the families of these two officers,
:13:21. > :13:29.knowing the whole nation is thinking of them tonight and
:13:29. > :13:31.standing alongside them. What they are facing at this minute is
:13:31. > :13:34.absolutely horrendous.. Thank you very much. If you were watching
:13:34. > :13:37.last night, you would have seen the Defence Secretary defend the
:13:37. > :13:40.continuing British commitment of British troops in Afghanistan. So
:13:40. > :13:44.far this year over 50 international soldiers have been murdered by
:13:44. > :13:49.members of the Afghan military, or people pretending to be members of
:13:49. > :13:52.the Afghan military. So today NATO announced it was scaling back joint
:13:52. > :13:58.operations with the Afghan Army. If the plan to hand over to them is
:13:58. > :14:04.supposed to be still on course, one for Mark Urban to work out. This i
:14:04. > :14:09.ZAF decision today? The decision was d ISAF decision today? This
:14:09. > :14:12.decision was made at the weekend, to scale back work between the two
:14:12. > :14:16.forces. It seems to be temporary. It was briefed to the American
:14:16. > :14:24.press that this was quite a significant change in policy, from
:14:24. > :14:27.one two years ago, when General McChris kal was there and he said
:14:27. > :14:32.they would fight shoulder-to- shoulder with the Afghans. Then the
:14:32. > :14:36.British got on and said they don't do as much as we do, and we have
:14:36. > :14:39.our ways as well. And the emergency statement today stressed that the
:14:39. > :14:43.American commander of regional command south-west, had said it was
:14:43. > :14:49.all right for the British to carry on pretty much as they have been
:14:49. > :14:56.doing. He has endorsed the approach currently being taken by the UK-led
:14:56. > :15:02.task force, Helmand, including mentoring at below, mentoring and
:15:02. > :15:05.parting at below Ka nark dak level. That means the UK partnering
:15:05. > :15:09.operations will continue substantially unchanged by the
:15:09. > :15:14.order. How does this change things on the ground? It seems to be one
:15:14. > :15:20.more incremental step, both in terms of disengaging those forces
:15:20. > :15:23.and trying to minimise these called green-on-blue incidents. Going to
:15:23. > :15:27.patrol bases even a couple of years ago, I could see there was a line
:15:27. > :15:31.in the base where it was shared with the Afghans, where they were
:15:31. > :15:37.told not to cross the line without permission from NATO forces. This
:15:37. > :15:42.all started happening in the British area, after an incident
:15:42. > :15:47.called Blue 25, and five British soldiers were killed off duty.
:15:47. > :15:52.Those changes happened a few years ago and they have been increasing.
:15:52. > :15:55.And the places where the troops can be cheek-by-jowl have been
:15:55. > :16:01.transferred to entire Afghan control over the summer, they have
:16:02. > :16:09.been trying to mitigate risk then. But there will still be meetings
:16:09. > :16:13.and communities if people want to carry out a crime of this kind.
:16:13. > :16:17.does it affect the exit strategy? You can argue that cutting the
:16:17. > :16:21.apron strings with the Afghan forces is a good thing. It
:16:21. > :16:23.encourages them to take more responsibility, and reduces the
:16:24. > :16:28.chance of friction with American and British soldiers who are not
:16:28. > :16:32.always the kindest in pointing out the error of their ways. It could
:16:32. > :16:35.have a positive effect, or it could leave them floundering.
:16:35. > :16:38.Thank you. Joining us from Washington to discuss the
:16:38. > :16:43.significance of today's announcement is the former US
:16:43. > :16:45.Ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker, here in the studio is the former
:16:45. > :16:49.Military Intelligence Officer, Frank Ledwidge, who served in the
:16:49. > :16:53.Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan, his book, Losing Small Wars, is his
:16:53. > :16:58.account of why he thinks Britain has fared so badly.
:16:58. > :17:02.How do you imagine the Taliban will see this announcement? I think they
:17:02. > :17:06.will see it as a success for their strategy. I think that when we look
:17:06. > :17:08.at the bulk of the Afghan national security forces, they are very
:17:08. > :17:13.patriotic, they are fighting for their country, working together
:17:13. > :17:16.with us. A small number of Taliban can infiltrate that, and attack
:17:16. > :17:20.with green-on-blue attacks, some international fores, that causes a
:17:20. > :17:24.shift or halt in the way we execute our strategy. They will see this as
:17:24. > :17:29.something of a success. How do you think they will see it? I agree,
:17:29. > :17:34.over the last few years we have had a rowing back of an extended
:17:34. > :17:39.involvement up to 30 years, it was to finish at the end of 2014, now
:17:39. > :17:42.we are looking at even a moderation of that. From the Taliban's
:17:42. > :17:45.perspective, they will see and preach it. It will seem a
:17:45. > :17:49.demonstration of continuing success on their part. That's wait they
:17:49. > :17:55.will play it. In other circumstances, you might have, if
:17:55. > :18:00.this is a perceived success, or a reverse for western strategy in
:18:00. > :18:02.Afghanistan, you might see that as shifting the timetable, but the
:18:02. > :18:07.timetable apparently is not going to shift, all the forces are going
:18:07. > :18:13.to be out by the end of 2014? see, time will tell. I think what
:18:13. > :18:17.we can do today, and we can used to's or yesterday's announcement as
:18:17. > :18:20.an opportunity, as an -- today or yesterday's announcement as an
:18:20. > :18:24.opportunity to say it is time the Afghans cut away on their own,
:18:24. > :18:26.another two years alongside them will not make any strategic or
:18:26. > :18:30.operational difference, or any major difference. And the
:18:30. > :18:35.difference for us, of course, of hanging on, continuing in combat
:18:35. > :18:45.over the next few years, 40, 50, 60 more families without sons. What do
:18:45. > :18:47.
:18:47. > :18:50.you think is going to be the long- term impact of these attacks?
:18:51. > :18:55.think attacks themselves are not all that difficult, we have lost
:18:55. > :19:00.forces because of the attacks and other situations too. The issue is
:19:00. > :19:03.what are we trying to achieve in Afghanistan, if we are trying to
:19:03. > :19:06.get out we are on that track any way, the attack won't help that. If
:19:06. > :19:11.the effort is really to try to bring about a stable state, to
:19:11. > :19:15.bring about some security, to give the Afghan people a chance to
:19:15. > :19:19.pursue their own development, and make sure extremist groups, such as
:19:19. > :19:23.the Taliban, or those they have given access to, don't get control
:19:23. > :19:27.of Afghanistan again, then we need to take the attacks as a signal,
:19:27. > :19:31.and say we need to re-think the strategy. Transitioning in two
:19:31. > :19:35.years to Afghan leadership looks less and less convincing that this
:19:35. > :19:40.will be an effective way to ensure we deliver the kind of Afghanistan
:19:40. > :19:43.we said we seek to do. We need to think about the deadline and our
:19:43. > :19:48.commitment, we need to renew our engagment with supporting the
:19:48. > :19:53.Afghan, the vast majority of which do want to build their own country.
:19:53. > :19:57.You are saying the deadline is integral to successful completion
:19:57. > :20:01.of the strategy? Yes, it signals to the Taliban when they will know we
:20:01. > :20:07.will be gone, and to the population in the middle, we won't be there,
:20:07. > :20:12.but the Taliban will. It is very important we don't inflate the
:20:12. > :20:16.Taliban, they are a southern resistance movement, and Al-Qaeda
:20:16. > :20:21.are an international terrorist movement. We can talk to the
:20:21. > :20:27.Taliban, Al-Qaeda is a different thing. We have essentially beaten
:20:27. > :20:33.off Al-Qaeda to the front end of 2002, since then they haven't been
:20:33. > :20:40.in Afghanistan. We must draw that distinction. As for a viable state,
:20:40. > :20:45.something of 95% of Afghan regard their Government as a bunch of
:20:45. > :20:49.thieves, robbers, rapists and war criminals. There is aepblment of
:20:49. > :20:53.truth in those accusations -- an element of truth in those
:20:53. > :20:57.accusations? There is. Given that both these countries and many
:20:57. > :21:02.others are committed to getting out as quickly as possible, by the end
:21:02. > :21:08.of 2014, can they do so and loaf a credible Afghan security structure
:21:08. > :21:13.in place? Time will tell, the problem is, our perspective is very
:21:13. > :21:19.different from that of many senior Afghan officers, who realise that
:21:19. > :21:24.3% of their force is of southern Pashtun origin, which is the
:21:24. > :21:29.heartland of the Taliban. How that plays out in future is unclear. One
:21:29. > :21:33.thing we can be sure, most of the Afghan Army is as foreign to
:21:34. > :21:39.southern Pashtuns as the British army is. How do you see it, is it
:21:39. > :21:43.possible that the western countries are going to leave a credible
:21:43. > :21:47.security system in place in Afghanistan? It is certainly
:21:47. > :21:52.possible.S if certainly possible. We are making the effort -- it is
:21:52. > :21:56.certainly possible. We are making the effort to train Afghan forces,
:21:56. > :22:00.support governance, it is possible. It is a very risk strategy, we have
:22:00. > :22:03.to think about what if it doesn't work out that way. It is credible
:22:03. > :22:07.to believe an alternative scenario would have the Taliban taking
:22:07. > :22:10.control of the south. The Afghan security forces essentially
:22:10. > :22:15.controlling the north. One of the warlords in the west re-
:22:15. > :22:19.establishing control there. And then you have a question of does
:22:19. > :22:23.the Taliban retry to take the entire country, as before. Or do
:22:23. > :22:27.the Afghan national security forces try to fight back against them. You
:22:27. > :22:32.may see something of a civil war emerge a few years from now. No-one
:22:32. > :22:37.wants that, we need to think about the strategy we pursue today to try
:22:37. > :22:41.to make that scenario much less likely than it now may appear.
:22:41. > :22:46.Now, a President for all Americans, we have heard that promise time
:22:46. > :22:51.after time, as someone or other runs for election for the White
:22:51. > :22:54.House. Astonishing to hear Mitt Romney, the Republican challenger,
:22:54. > :23:00.say he isn't much bothered about representing half of the electorate.
:23:00. > :23:04.He spent most of today not trying to unsay what he said, but to
:23:04. > :23:09.apologise, without apologising. He fell victim to every phone being a
:23:09. > :23:14.camera, and declaring to a room full of private donors that half
:23:14. > :23:24.the electorate are a bunch of scroungers, is up there with
:23:24. > :23:47.
:23:47. > :23:56.playing strip poker with Las Vegas In internet gaming slang, the exact
:23:56. > :24:02.moment of defeat is called "getting owned". For some reason it is spelt
:24:02. > :24:07.like that. It was the Internet that turned up Mitt Romney's potential
:24:07. > :24:13.faux pas, made at a private donors dinner in bok ka ratten to.
:24:13. > :24:17.understand there has been a video on the Internet. Cue some artful
:24:17. > :24:21.rephrasing from the candidate today. I believe the point I made is the
:24:21. > :24:25.President starts out with a large number of the voters, 49%, these
:24:25. > :24:28.are people in his camp. And they will vote for him, almost no matter
:24:28. > :24:33.what, I have also a large number of people who will vote for me almost
:24:33. > :24:37.no matter what, at least I hope so. And that my campaign effort is to
:24:37. > :24:43.focus on the people in the middle. Owning a presidential candidate is
:24:43. > :24:48.a tough proposition, in 1980 Ronald Reagan owned Jimmy Carter like this.
:24:48. > :24:57.There you go again. Bill Clinton did it to George Bush
:24:57. > :25:03.senior. While Bush junior, infamously owned
:25:03. > :25:08.Ronan Kerr with this one. I served with Ronan Kerr. -- John Kerry.
:25:08. > :25:15.served with John Kerry. John Kerry has not been honest about what
:25:15. > :25:25.happened in Vietnam. Senator Kerry almost owned himself when he
:25:25. > :25:42.
:25:42. > :25:46.dismissed the pence vainals in his So, is this one a terminal cock-up,
:25:46. > :25:50.or just another thing. Here is what some voters in the swing state of
:25:50. > :25:53.Florida told us this morning. It's not surprising. It's not
:25:53. > :26:00.surprising that he would say something like. That I think he
:26:00. > :26:03.should pay more attention, but that's the Republican state, that
:26:03. > :26:06.they care only about themselves and a certain class of people. If
:26:06. > :26:10.you're not like me, if you don't look like me or have as much money
:26:10. > :26:16.as I, then I really don't want to have anything to do with you.
:26:16. > :26:20.I support him? I'm a registered Republican and he makes me ashamed
:26:20. > :26:26.at times. Why is that Because of his comments and his fill loss fees.
:26:26. > :26:31.He should be appeal -- Philosophys. He should be appealing to the
:26:31. > :26:35.country, elections are not one by one demographic but the entire
:26:35. > :26:38.country. I think the comments were aimed at the target audience, but
:26:38. > :26:43.probably reveals his true nature about how he feels about the
:26:43. > :26:47.different classes in America. Lost in all this was another Romney
:26:47. > :26:50.comment, made at the same event, also leaked to the Internet,
:26:51. > :26:54.suggesting his administration would see no point in pursuing the
:26:54. > :26:58.Palestinian peace process with any vigour. But some political
:26:58. > :27:04.commentators now think a Romney administration looks a lot less
:27:04. > :27:09.likely. Paul Mason is here with us now. This claim that 47 perof
:27:09. > :27:12.Americans don't pay income tax, is it true? Amazingly it is true.
:27:12. > :27:16.Although it is complicated. If we run this graph, it shows that over
:27:16. > :27:21.the past few decades, large numbers of people have become exempted from
:27:21. > :27:25.paying this one tax, income tax. You can see the crucial decades of
:27:25. > :27:30.the last two, are free market economics where Democrats and
:27:30. > :27:37.Republicans have done this, given tax breaks to the upper echelon,
:27:37. > :27:43.and sweetened the pill with tax emsems of the middle-classes and
:27:43. > :27:46.47% don't pay income tax. It seems a big number? Here is where the
:27:46. > :27:50.complication of the tax service get politically complicated for Romney.
:27:50. > :27:55.It is true half of those who fall through the tax net on income tax
:27:55. > :27:59.are on benefits. The other half are really, what's happening, is they
:27:59. > :28:03.are getting tax credits that offset their tax bill, it is called tax
:28:03. > :28:07.units, if we break that down, 44% of them are elderly. Immediate
:28:07. > :28:17.problem, because there is a lot of elderly Republicans who don't pay
:28:17. > :28:19.
:28:19. > :28:24.tax, therefore. The other 25%, 33%, are working poor with family. And
:28:24. > :28:28.there is this is just income tax. Even the poor can be paying sales
:28:28. > :28:31.tax, property tax, local taxes. The idea that they don't have a stake
:28:32. > :28:38.in the system because they don't pay this one tax is something that
:28:38. > :28:44.you can only really believe if you don't study the graphs. It is not
:28:44. > :28:47.true, if it is true it is the run cans' fault? -- Republicans' fault?
:28:47. > :28:51.The politics have been spinning around in the last 24 hours. The
:28:51. > :28:54.balance sheet looks something like this H the first problem he has got
:28:54. > :28:58.is judgment, if you want to be President, do you want to go around
:28:58. > :29:02.making speeches like this, even in private. The second is the idea
:29:02. > :29:07.that Democrats are people who don't have a stake in the American dream,
:29:07. > :29:11.and Republicans are. It is quite simplistic one, and if you are
:29:11. > :29:14.trying to win a small number of swing voters, which he says he's
:29:14. > :29:18.trying to do. Some of them have been caught in the misunderstanding
:29:18. > :29:22.of what who pays this. The final thing is the demeanor, throughout
:29:23. > :29:26.the campaign Romney has looked like a waxwork dummy, uncomfortable in
:29:26. > :29:31.speeches, quite stiff. In that video, it has been well noted on
:29:31. > :29:35.the American media, he's completely fluent, he's happy, comfortable in
:29:35. > :29:40.his skin. It doesn't take much psychology to work out that is
:29:40. > :29:47.probably what he believes. Some of the other stuff he's saying he's
:29:47. > :29:51.not so on top of. He's among his own people there? It was a private
:29:51. > :29:56.speech, there will be a certain part of the Republican Party it
:29:56. > :30:00.won't damage him W but you could hear there, in the swing state of
:30:00. > :30:03.Florida, among middle-class voters, including Republicans, they are not
:30:03. > :30:07.comfortable with the idea that if you don't pay tax you don't have a
:30:07. > :30:11.stake in the system. To discuss Mitt Romney's comments,
:30:11. > :30:15.and what they can tell us about the philosophical conflict at the heart
:30:15. > :30:24.of this year's presidential election, we have from Washington,
:30:25. > :30:29.Matt Lewis, conlumist for the daily website, -- columnist for the daily
:30:29. > :30:33.website Daily Caller, and my other guest.
:30:33. > :30:38.Can you tell us on this side of the Atlantic who are always being told
:30:38. > :30:43.about the wonderful dynamic capitalist economy you have, this
:30:43. > :30:48.is astonishing that half of your people don't pay income tax? As was
:30:48. > :30:54.mentioned they pay taxes, property tax, sales tax, but about half of
:30:54. > :30:58.Americans don't pay federal income tax. On top of that about 49% of
:30:58. > :31:01.Americans get some form of benefit. This is not widely known. It is a
:31:01. > :31:06.legitimate issue. Romney would have probably preferred it didn't come
:31:06. > :31:12.out in the sort of "gotcha" way. But it is a debate to have. It is
:31:12. > :31:16.also true, isn't it, as Paul, my colleague, mentioned, that a lot of
:31:16. > :31:20.people who don't pay federal income tax are Republicans? That is
:31:20. > :31:24.absolutely true. Although, I would say, if you listen closely to Mitt
:31:24. > :31:30.Romney's comments, he wasn't just talking, he was talking about
:31:30. > :31:33.people not vested in paying income tax, but he also talked about the
:31:33. > :31:37.entitlement philosophy. And Romney actually said, who think they are
:31:37. > :31:41.entitled to a house, and to food, and to healthcare. I think we can
:31:41. > :31:45.all agree where he all need those things, the question is, should
:31:45. > :31:50.Government be providing from cradle to grave, everything that we need,
:31:50. > :31:55.or should we as individuals take responsibility for that. That's the
:31:55. > :32:02.big debate that I hope we have in the next 50 days. He has tapped
:32:02. > :32:06.into something, hasn't he. The state has been growing, hugely in
:32:06. > :32:10.the United States? I'm not so sure I would agree with that. The point
:32:10. > :32:14.your commentator made earlier, to the extend a large number of
:32:14. > :32:19.Americans aren't paying taxes or are getting credits or benefits,
:32:19. > :32:22.like increased food stamps, or Medicare to get drugs. They were
:32:22. > :32:26.two initiatives that game under George Bush, whether or not the
:32:26. > :32:29.state is growing in the US, there is a debate going forward about how
:32:29. > :32:34.much the state should be helping. I think Romney has positioned himself
:32:34. > :32:38.very badly in that debate. We have a methology, or we have had -- a
:32:38. > :32:42.mythology in this country that we can make it up the ladder by
:32:42. > :32:45.ourselves, we don't need any help at all. I think post 2008 we
:32:45. > :32:51.realise that is not right. I think Romney is on the wrong side of that
:32:51. > :32:56.debate. And you pointed out earlier, he was sitting and making these
:32:56. > :33:01.comments at a $50,000 a plate dinner with his own people. There
:33:01. > :33:05.is a portion of the Republican Party that buys into this mythology,
:33:05. > :33:07.the rest of America doesn't. says something about the state of
:33:07. > :33:12.politics in your country, that somebody, and frankly, it must be
:33:12. > :33:16.true to some degree on both sides, that effectively you can write off
:33:16. > :33:23.a huge chunk of the electorate, as people who you are never going to
:33:23. > :33:28.be able to reach out to? Absolutely. Mitt Romney is guilty of talking
:33:28. > :33:32.like a strategist. And there is a famous saying here in the United
:33:32. > :33:35.States that politics is like making sausage, you don't want to see it
:33:35. > :33:40.being done. That was what Mitt Romney was doing. The truth is, we
:33:40. > :33:43.live in a world of limited resores, if you are going to run --
:33:43. > :33:48.resources, if you are going to run a campaign, you have three people,
:33:48. > :33:52.the people for you, the people against and you the undecideds. The
:33:52. > :33:58.people who are for you turn out on election day, the people undecided
:33:58. > :34:02.you persuade. The people against, you frankly, ignore. It should be
:34:02. > :34:08.noted that there was a gap will you please tracking poll that came out
:34:08. > :34:10.today that showed Barack Obama has, you guessed it, 47% of the vote.
:34:10. > :34:20.The exact per cent that Mitt Romney said he had. He was right about
:34:20. > :34:21.
:34:21. > :34:24.that. Go on? Sorry, I lost you for a
:34:24. > :34:28.minute. I think that going to your point
:34:28. > :34:32.earlier about how this is going to affect the election, this is a huge
:34:32. > :34:35.turning point. I think this week will be remembered unless there is
:34:35. > :34:38.some major change that we can't foresee right now, as the week that
:34:38. > :34:41.Mitt Romney lost the election. And I think it is going to start a
:34:41. > :34:45.bigger debate in this country about what kind of country we want to
:34:45. > :34:50.have, what kind of role we want Government to play, how big or how
:34:50. > :34:54.small we want it to be, and how easy it is to work your way up the
:34:54. > :34:59.ladder in this country. There are big questions about this. You say
:34:59. > :35:02.this will be going down as the week he lost the election because of
:35:02. > :35:08.these comments? I think this is one of a number of mistakes he has made.
:35:08. > :35:13.I see a mood change. I think that you really can't write off 47% of
:35:13. > :35:20.the population. I think that the comment that you played earlier
:35:20. > :35:24.from the voters in swing states like Ohio, are very apropo, what is
:35:24. > :35:28.interesting is Republicans are no longer the party of optimisim. I
:35:28. > :35:33.think this plays to that. I think Democrats have grabbed that, they
:35:33. > :35:36.are the party of optimisim. Obama's speech to the convention was a can-
:35:36. > :35:40.do speech, we we are all in this together, we will reach back to
:35:40. > :35:42.those behind us and pull them up. Republicans sound like they are
:35:42. > :35:49.complaining about half of the population, that is not a message
:35:49. > :35:54.that will go down in November, I don't think. I would like to be
:35:54. > :35:59.optimistic, but we have very serious problems, a $16 trillion
:35:59. > :36:02.debt that we have to bring down and make changes. There are three
:36:02. > :36:05.debates between now and the election, anything could change. I
:36:06. > :36:09.agree, I hope there is this national Conservatives, I think
:36:09. > :36:12.there is a real question about whether or not we want to have an
:36:12. > :36:15.entitlement society, or opportunity society. Whether or not we want to
:36:15. > :36:20.have the American dream, or a welfare state. I think Mitt Romney
:36:20. > :36:25.should welcome that debate, and vigorously be at the forefront of
:36:25. > :36:28.challenging President Obama to have that discussion. Thank you very
:36:28. > :36:33.much. If you look up the description of the former British
:36:33. > :36:37.colony of Kenya in Wikipedia, you will find the country described as
:36:37. > :36:40.having maintained a remarkable stability, despite changes in its
:36:40. > :36:44.political system. Looking up anything in Wikipedia is a risky
:36:44. > :36:48.thing at the best of times. Tell that to the police who today found
:36:48. > :36:54.two mass graves in the Tana Delta region, in the east of the country.
:36:54. > :36:57.The graves are believed to hold the remains of a hundred people, killed
:36:57. > :37:01.in the last month, as Kenya prepares to hold a general election,
:37:02. > :37:07.which is still six months away. After the last election violence
:37:07. > :37:11.claimed over 1,000 lives. The BBC East Africa correspondent
:37:11. > :37:16.investigates the links between the latest massacre and the upcoming
:37:16. > :37:22.vote. By the time we got to the village
:37:22. > :37:28.of Gillows, there was no-one left. Most of the -- most of the houses
:37:28. > :37:34.had been torched, not a home remained untouched. The only living
:37:34. > :37:37.things were the flies and the remains of butchered animals in
:37:37. > :37:42.silence. The attackers had had come in the early morning. Several
:37:42. > :37:48.hundred men, some armed with guns, most carried spheres, clubs or bows
:37:48. > :37:53.and arrow, they set fire to the villagers' hut. Some ran for
:37:53. > :37:56.shelter in the mosque, but 38 people were hacked to death. Men,
:37:56. > :38:02.women and children, indiscriminately. This was a
:38:02. > :38:07.massacre. TRANSLATION: All of a sudden the village was under siege,
:38:07. > :38:16.there were so many of them. They were wearing red bandanas and white
:38:16. > :38:20.shoes, they didn't speak. They just shouted "kill, kill, kill". At a
:38:20. > :38:24.hospital nearby we met Jamila, she's eight years old, her face was
:38:24. > :38:34.slashed open with a machete, she's still too traumatised to speak. The
:38:34. > :38:37.doctors say she will pull through. She was fortunate to survive. In
:38:37. > :38:41.the abandoned village, a square patch of freshly-dug earth, marks
:38:41. > :38:46.the spot where some of the victims lie buried in a mass grave. It will
:38:46. > :38:53.be a long time before people venture back here. The stench is
:38:53. > :38:59.pretty strong here, still. Even all these days later, because of the
:38:59. > :39:04.crack cusses of slaughtered livestock that -- crack kass of
:39:04. > :39:09.slaughtered livestock that - crack cusses of slaughtered livestock. It
:39:09. > :39:19.looks like this was more than a spontaneous outburst of anger, you
:39:19. > :39:22.have to wonder if it was more well planned or premeditated.
:39:22. > :39:27.TRANSLATION: The attackers were divided into three groups, one
:39:27. > :39:32.torched the houses, others carried off the injured, there was a third
:39:32. > :39:39.group whose job it was to just kill. On the surface, this is a conflict
:39:39. > :39:45.over access to land and water. On one side are the pokomo people,
:39:45. > :39:52.armers, small holdings, who eek out a living growing groups by the
:39:52. > :39:58.banks of the river. On the other side are the Orma, semi-onadmic
:39:58. > :40:07.cattle drovers who roam the land in search of grazing grounds for their
:40:07. > :40:11.herds. The farmers complain the herds trample their crops. In the
:40:11. > :40:17.past the difficulties have been resolved peacefully, but things
:40:17. > :40:20.have changed. This herder says he's afraid, showing us his newly-
:40:20. > :40:26.acquired dagger, he says if anything happens they will
:40:26. > :40:30.retaliate and defend themselves. Five years ago Kenya shocked itself
:40:30. > :40:35.and the world. Violence erupted, following a disputed general
:40:35. > :40:39.election. The clashes were centered on the Rift Valley and in the
:40:39. > :40:44.capital Nairobi. Communities turned on each other, killing and maiming,
:40:44. > :40:47.with apparent abandon. In their fury, those who believed
:40:47. > :40:52.victory had been stolen from them, lashed out at those they saw as
:40:52. > :40:56.benefiting from the outcome. Attacks provoked counter-attacks,
:40:56. > :41:01.and the bloodshed continued for months. At the end of it 1,200
:41:01. > :41:05.people were dead, over half a million homeless.
:41:05. > :41:09.But the killings were not entirely spontaneous. Four men are due to
:41:09. > :41:12.stand trial at the International Criminal Court in the Hague,
:41:12. > :41:20.accused of orchestrating the violence. Two of those men are also
:41:20. > :41:25.running for President in the next election. The long shadow of 2008
:41:25. > :41:28.now hangs over Kenya, as it prepares to go to the polls next
:41:28. > :41:31.March. Election season has already begun, there was by-elections in
:41:31. > :41:34.three constituencies on Monday, and tensions between the main
:41:34. > :41:38.candidates are simmering. When people go to the polls in Kenya,
:41:38. > :41:42.they are generally not thinking about manifestos or political
:41:42. > :41:46.platforms, it is all about getting your candidate elected to office.
:41:46. > :41:50.And your candidate generally means somebody from your tribe or
:41:50. > :41:54.community. Your candidate's success or failure can mean the difference
:41:54. > :41:57.between you getting a job or becoming unemployed. And the
:41:57. > :42:01.success or failure of your political block can mean the
:42:01. > :42:06.difference, say, between a road being built to your area or not. So
:42:06. > :42:14.in Kenya elections are a matter of poverty or prosperity. They can
:42:14. > :42:19.even be a matter of life and death. In the tan da delta, religious
:42:19. > :42:22.leaders and politicians are preaching piece to their
:42:23. > :42:27.constituents. Many don't believe these massacres were caused by
:42:27. > :42:31.small, local land disputes. Someone local MP has been sacked from the
:42:31. > :42:35.cabinet, on suspicion of inciting violence, others are suspected.
:42:35. > :42:42.fits the pattern that before an election you have violence, the
:42:42. > :42:52.motive is to affect the way people vote. To gerrymander violence. To
:42:52. > :42:54.
:42:54. > :42:58.create fear and terror. Political income bancy, means free --
:42:58. > :43:04.incumbanc means freedom to steal, you become rich in Government,
:43:04. > :43:07.people areing will to kill for that. Land is a valuable commodity, not
:43:07. > :43:10.just for those who live on it. Big investors, local and national, are
:43:10. > :43:14.becoming interested in the region's potential. What is happening on the
:43:14. > :43:19.other side of this electric fence is a pilot project. They are
:43:19. > :43:24.growing crops to be converted into biofuels, if the experiment is
:43:24. > :43:30.successful, it will be repeated across vast situates of land here,
:43:30. > :43:36.currently used -- swathes of land here, currently used for cattle.
:43:36. > :43:39.The potential conflict over land takes place on various different
:43:39. > :43:41.levels, there is the individual herdsman versus the individual
:43:41. > :43:48.farmer, but there is potentially bigger business at stake here.
:43:48. > :43:53.There is a lot of external interest in the area. People want to set up
:43:53. > :43:59.large farms. They always do that with local partners, the local
:43:59. > :44:07.partners are always politically connected. And you know, moving
:44:07. > :44:12.people off land that you may want, can be done in various ways.
:44:13. > :44:16.As you drive through the Tana Delta now, you come across abandoned
:44:16. > :44:20.village after abandoned village. Many residents have fled in
:44:20. > :44:24.anticipation of trouble to come. Thousands have ended up in camp
:44:24. > :44:29.like this one, sometimes far away from home. Whether they return in
:44:29. > :44:33.time to register to vote, will depend on whether they feel
:44:33. > :44:38.confident enough in the security forces to guarantee their safety.
:44:38. > :44:42.After four weeks of violence and more than a hundred deaths, the
:44:42. > :44:46.Government has, belatedly, sent in the paramilitary police, to try to
:44:46. > :44:51.disarm and protect the area. The fear is, as the scramble for vote
:44:51. > :44:57.intensifies, and spreads across the country, these killings may mark
:44:57. > :45:07.the start of another bloody Kenyan election.
:45:07. > :45:31.
:45:31. > :45:39.That's all tonight. It was announced today that the film
:45:39. > :45:42.producer John Coates has died, his best loved him of the animated