0:00:01 > 0:00:07Has the cost of our gas been subject to price-fixing, two
0:00:07 > 0:00:12whistleblowers say they fear market manipulation. How extensive can the
0:00:12 > 0:00:16practice be? I think the opportunity to make illicit gains
0:00:16 > 0:00:22through market manipulation, could be too great for some companies to
0:00:22 > 0:00:25resist it. These two might know if the fix is really in. One sixth of
0:00:25 > 0:00:30the world's population is about to be told whom its new leader will be.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34We will be live in Beijing to find out how the new guard is different
0:00:34 > 0:00:37from the old guard, and what it means to the rest of us.
0:00:37 > 0:00:42Thousands of civilians were killed in the last months of Sri Lanka's
0:00:42 > 0:00:46civil war, now a leaked report obtained by the BBC, say there were
0:00:46 > 0:00:49grave failures by the UN to protect them. There were people to protect
0:00:49 > 0:00:52the population, they left at the moment when the population needed
0:00:52 > 0:00:55them more than ever. The Government wanted them out of the way,
0:00:55 > 0:00:58essentially because they didn't want anyone to see what was
0:00:58 > 0:01:03happening. Also tonight. Something was biting me, and I thought it was
0:01:03 > 0:01:10a rat biting me, my fear is rats. Do politicians and popular culture
0:01:10 > 0:01:14mix? And does soap operas have a duty to reflect political reality.
0:01:14 > 0:01:23We have Phil Redmond, Christine Hamilton, and Lembit Opik to
0:01:23 > 0:01:26discuss. Good evening, the Energy Secretary
0:01:26 > 0:01:30has promised the full force of the law will be used against anyone
0:01:30 > 0:01:32involved in attemptss to rig the gas market. Ofgem, the Financial
0:01:32 > 0:01:37Services Authority, are investigating gas companies, and
0:01:37 > 0:01:42the wholesale gas market, after a whistleblower claimed it was being
0:01:42 > 0:01:46manipulated. The main companies, known as the big six, deny any
0:01:46 > 0:01:52wrongdoing, the claim, by suggests evidence of suspect trading, comes
0:01:52 > 0:02:02as customers have soaring price, some gas bills rising 10% over the
0:02:02 > 0:02:04
0:02:04 > 0:02:09course of the year. This is my gas thermostat, I leave
0:02:09 > 0:02:12it on all the time, upstairs I have a switch and I adjust t I put it on
0:02:12 > 0:02:17one or two hours an evening, I can't afford to keep it on all the
0:02:17 > 0:02:22time. Helen peters is more than fuel poor, her income totals �70 a
0:02:22 > 0:02:27week, half of that goes on gas and electricity.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31If I had had to choose between keeping warm for me and my daughter
0:02:31 > 0:02:36and family and grandchild, or buy food, I will cut down on the food.
0:02:36 > 0:02:41I have cut down on the food a lot. So has all my family. Everybody has
0:02:41 > 0:02:45to pay electric and gas. The price that they are at the moment is, you
0:02:45 > 0:02:49know, especially with this cold weather coming, I think it is
0:02:49 > 0:02:55diabolical. Helen says she has been storing food for the winter, to get
0:02:55 > 0:03:00her through the colder months. Far removed from the cold reality of
0:03:00 > 0:03:06fuel poverty is a neb Luis world, where the gas price that hell --
0:03:06 > 0:03:11nebbu Luis world, where the gas price Helen has to pay, decided by
0:03:11 > 0:03:14gas providers who never had to face the choice between food and fuel.
0:03:14 > 0:03:19From that energy world, a whistleblower has emerged, saying
0:03:19 > 0:03:22the wholesale market is rigged and there is little we can do about it.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26It has become apparent to me, having spoken to traders who set
0:03:26 > 0:03:29the gas price on a daily basis for most of 2012, that people are
0:03:30 > 0:03:34worried about manipulation, and there are several key examples
0:03:34 > 0:03:39where it appears prices have been fixed. Not many insiders get their
0:03:39 > 0:03:42concerns aired so quickly in the House of Commons, but this is a
0:03:42 > 0:03:47world post-banking scandal, where soaring gas prices and national
0:03:47 > 0:03:50austerity have pressed politicians into action, vocal action, at least.
0:03:50 > 0:03:53At the early stage in the investigation, Mr Speaker, it is
0:03:53 > 0:03:57not possible to understand what the impact on country sumeers,
0:03:57 > 0:04:01companies or markets may have been, -- consumers, companies or markets
0:04:01 > 0:04:05have been, if the allegations are made to be true. I can assure the
0:04:05 > 0:04:10House of our absolute determination to uncover any abuse wherever and
0:04:10 > 0:04:13by whoever. I see it as my job to protect consumer, not least the
0:04:13 > 0:04:17most vulnerable, who can suffer the most when markets are abused.
0:04:17 > 0:04:23This is how the energy market currently works. Those companies
0:04:23 > 0:04:29which actually find oil and gas are called upstream generators, they
0:04:29 > 0:04:33sell their produce into an openly traded market. Energy suppliers,
0:04:33 > 0:04:38called downstream suppliers, who sell to you and me, buy from this
0:04:38 > 0:04:42market. There is a less transparent market called the over-the-counter
0:04:42 > 0:04:46market, where one gas producer signs a private deal to supply
0:04:46 > 0:04:49energy to somebody else. These contracts are rarely published and
0:04:49 > 0:04:53opaque. Now the spotlight is falling on the energy trading
0:04:53 > 0:05:02market as a whole, which can have a huge impact on the final price that
0:05:02 > 0:05:06lafpbdz as a bill on our doorstep - - lands as a bill on our doorsteps.
0:05:06 > 0:05:11Ofgem, the watchdog, is examining the wholesale gas market to see if
0:05:11 > 0:05:17it is fixed or not. All of the big six said none of their traders are
0:05:17 > 0:05:21involved in price faxing, and the market is d fixing, and the market
0:05:21 > 0:05:26is open. A smaller energy supplier says otherwise. I think the
0:05:26 > 0:05:30opportunity to make illicit gains, through market manipulation could
0:05:30 > 0:05:33be too great for some companies to resist it. When you look at the way
0:05:33 > 0:05:38in which some of these companies are trading on the market, it can
0:05:38 > 0:05:42be very difficult to say whether or not there is any illicit behaviour
0:05:42 > 0:05:46or not. I think the biggest thing we need is more transparency. The
0:05:46 > 0:05:49Government can try to regulate for. That the best thing I think they
0:05:49 > 0:05:54could do is regulate for more competition and the market forces
0:05:54 > 0:05:58take care of it itself. Let's get an idea of who gets what from the
0:05:58 > 0:06:03average energy bill, which consumers have to pay. The average
0:06:03 > 0:06:09dual fuel British Gas bill comes to �1,025 annually. Nearly half of
0:06:09 > 0:06:13that, or �475 goes to the wholesale market, which is now being probed.
0:06:13 > 0:06:18Distribution, or getting the fuel to your home accounts for �245 of
0:06:18 > 0:06:24the total, the Government takes �152 through VAT and other tax, and
0:06:24 > 0:06:30British Gas says �100 goes to cover its operating costs, with the final
0:06:30 > 0:06:35�53, or 5% of the total bill going to the company's net profit.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39heating and the electric, that is essentials, these are most basic
0:06:39 > 0:06:44essentials, and I think that it is the basic essentials of life,
0:06:44 > 0:06:47living in this country, is that people are struggling. It is
0:06:47 > 0:06:51worrying, it is really Worcesterying for the old people.
0:06:51 > 0:06:56For the people with children -- it is really worrying for the old
0:06:56 > 0:07:00people, for the people with children everyone. The bastions of
0:07:00 > 0:07:05society, banking, journalism, they have been exposed in the last few
0:07:05 > 0:07:08years. The energy sector, which none of us can avoid, will hope too
0:07:08 > 0:07:13that it won't join the Rogues' Gallery.
0:07:13 > 0:07:18Joining me is the director of external affairs at the pressure
0:07:18 > 0:07:21group Consumer Focus, and one of the men at the heart of the story,
0:07:21 > 0:07:25Patrick Heren. Do you recognise this description of rogue
0:07:25 > 0:07:29transactions we have heard, from not one, but two whistleblowers
0:07:29 > 0:07:38this evening? I recognise the occasional tendency of traders to
0:07:38 > 0:07:42try to move the price at the end of the day. But what I would like to
0:07:42 > 0:07:46say about this is that the journalist concerned, who is being
0:07:46 > 0:07:52described as a whistleblower, was a man who clearly didn't do his job
0:07:52 > 0:07:55properly. Why do you say that? Because he had an inkling that
0:07:55 > 0:08:00there was something wrong, he didn't make the phone calls that he
0:08:00 > 0:08:10should have done. He didn't go back and speak to his colleagues or do a
0:08:10 > 0:08:12
0:08:12 > 0:08:17wide range of other gas traders. With the intention of, as it were,
0:08:17 > 0:08:22discounting those rogue trades, or those apparently rogue trades.
0:08:23 > 0:08:29many times do you think there are these rogue trades made. Does it
0:08:29 > 0:08:33always depend on somebody to have to meantally discount it, or report
0:08:33 > 0:08:36upwards. It sound like it happens a lot? It doesn't happen a lot, or
0:08:36 > 0:08:44not in my experience. The last time I could remember it happening was
0:08:44 > 0:08:48about five or six years ago. And in that case, it was a series of
0:08:48 > 0:08:53transactions that went in on the close about a penny above where the
0:08:53 > 0:09:02true value was of the market. We recognise that, we agonised over it.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05When I say "we", I and my staff and my editors. We spent an hour, hour-
0:09:05 > 0:09:09and-a-half discussing it and talking to a wide range of traders.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13From what Patrick is saying, this is something that a company like
0:09:13 > 0:09:18Heren, the benchmark pricing company, can sort out themselves.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23Are you confident about that? not comfortable that the day job of
0:09:23 > 0:09:28Heren, when Patrick was there, and subsequently, is to filter out
0:09:28 > 0:09:33willful distortion and manipulation of the market. Even a 1p on the
0:09:33 > 0:09:37price of a firm, multiplied by the volumes in the gas market is
0:09:37 > 0:09:41enormous. This is a market which has such low levels of consumer
0:09:41 > 0:09:46confidence and trust already, these allegations are really corrosive.
0:09:46 > 0:09:51Are you comfortable that you are essentially the gateway for any
0:09:51 > 0:09:55decision on the gas wholesale market? Yes, I'm no longer the
0:09:55 > 0:10:00gateway, I haven't been the gateway for five years. In the sense of
0:10:00 > 0:10:03your company, you founded a company that basically becomes the
0:10:03 > 0:10:07benchmark? So it is very open to manipulation, presumably? I don't
0:10:07 > 0:10:10think it is very open to manipulation. The thing about a
0:10:10 > 0:10:15market, maybe most people haven't dealt with markets. The thing about
0:10:15 > 0:10:18a market is it is full of buyers and sellers. But the allegation is
0:10:19 > 0:10:23not that it is full of buyers and sellers, the allegation is that
0:10:23 > 0:10:28there are people within it, who may sell, or may buy at one price, but
0:10:28 > 0:10:33they tell you that they are doing something different, that's the
0:10:33 > 0:10:41manipulation? Yes, there are people who sometimes try to do that. Let
0:10:41 > 0:10:50me finish the point. You put this to me. The job of a price reporter
0:10:50 > 0:10:55is to work out who is doing that. And to correct for it. Can I say,
0:10:55 > 0:10:59also, if we have the supposed alternative to this, which might be,
0:10:59 > 0:11:05say, a complete electronic market, on which all trades were cleared.
0:11:05 > 0:11:11There would be no possibility then of correcting the kind of skewed
0:11:11 > 0:11:14trades that go in here. Clearly this is an incredibly complicated
0:11:14 > 0:11:17system, with very little transparency, that is what the
0:11:17 > 0:11:20consumer takes away from this. But does this actually mean that our
0:11:20 > 0:11:25prices have been rigged by this kind of behaviour? I think what we
0:11:25 > 0:11:31need to find out. I think Patrick is right, commodity trading is open
0:11:31 > 0:11:33to these sorts of risks. Wholesale energy is more important than
0:11:33 > 0:11:37commodity trading and cocoa beans, it is important it is above board
0:11:37 > 0:11:40and seen to be such. What we don't know is whether the allegations of
0:11:40 > 0:11:43manipulation of the market, that the whistleblowers have come out
0:11:43 > 0:11:47with, made a material difference to the actual wholesale, the benchmark
0:11:47 > 0:11:50price. Do you fear that has happened? I fear, if it is a
0:11:50 > 0:11:55possibility, let alone a probability, that is the basis for
0:11:55 > 0:11:59a thorough investigation from the FSA. I would say, if you have two
0:11:59 > 0:12:02things coming together, which is, a not uncommon practice of traders to
0:12:02 > 0:12:06gain the market, and the possibility that could have an
0:12:06 > 0:12:09impact on the benchmark price of wholesale gas, I think there is
0:12:09 > 0:12:13something fundamentally wrong with the wholesale gas market, we need
0:12:13 > 0:12:20to have a body like the Competition Commission, that can come in, and
0:12:20 > 0:12:23as Patrick was alluding to, find better and more efficient markets
0:12:23 > 0:12:27moderator. And consumers can be assured of one thing, they are
0:12:27 > 0:12:32paying a fair price for commodities, based on supply and demand.
0:12:32 > 0:12:37would have to agree with that? entirely, no. The system as it is
0:12:37 > 0:12:42works reasonably well. The thing is, let's keep this in context in
0:12:42 > 0:12:48proportion. This was one price, that this chap got wrong, which he
0:12:48 > 0:12:56should not have got wrong. Which was, which was moved by less than
0:12:56 > 0:13:01half a penny a thermat to 60p a they wereat. It was gas for the
0:13:01 > 0:13:04next day. It wouldn't have made a difference? For the gas household
0:13:04 > 0:13:08price it wouldn't have made a difference. That is contestable,
0:13:08 > 0:13:14even a penny on the price of they were, with the volumes of trades
0:13:14 > 0:13:20going through -- therm, with the volumes of trades going through.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24There are two specific allegations of a day's trading, if the FSA says
0:13:24 > 0:13:28these are two rogue events after investigation, we have an issue.
0:13:28 > 0:13:31Ifs something more, if there is a culture, even in part of the
0:13:31 > 0:13:35trading community, saying this is the common way of behaving in trade
0:13:35 > 0:13:39to go gain the market. I'm very uncomfortable with that, there
0:13:39 > 0:13:41needs to be more investigation about whether we have a fair market
0:13:41 > 0:13:46price for gas that reflects its cost.
0:13:46 > 0:13:49Thank you very much. By this time tomorrow, China will be on the cusp
0:13:49 > 0:13:52of announcing its new leader, a moment that could have
0:13:52 > 0:13:56ramifications for the rest of the world. The last leadership change
0:13:56 > 0:14:01was ten years ago, since then, China's power has grown hugely, and
0:14:01 > 0:14:09so, for some, has the economic threat the country now poses. We're
0:14:09 > 0:14:13in Beijing with Paul Mason. Hello from Beijing, where a
0:14:13 > 0:14:17freezing cold dawn is breaking on what will be the last day of the
0:14:17 > 0:14:2318th Congress of the Communist Party. Never before have so many
0:14:23 > 0:14:26flowers been arranged in straight lines, hands raised in unison. Here
0:14:26 > 0:14:30at the Congress, behind the scenes, there is a debate raising.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34According to the official news agency today, there are three
0:14:34 > 0:14:37debates going on, about equal rights, equal opportunities, and
0:14:38 > 0:14:42what they say, equality before the law. The rule of law. And it is
0:14:42 > 0:14:48this last thing that is focusing people's attention. One official
0:14:48 > 0:14:52daily newspaper, down in the south of the country, said in its
0:14:52 > 0:14:56editorial yesterday, said some party delegates think privileges
0:14:56 > 0:15:00people can find a good job based on their father's influence, and some
0:15:00 > 0:15:03people have better access to better medical care. Any taxi driver will
0:15:03 > 0:15:10tell you that. The fact it is discussed behind the scenes at the
0:15:10 > 0:15:12party conference is important. It is not just an abstract debate, the
0:15:12 > 0:15:17outgoing leadership, under Hu Jintao, has been wanting to deliver
0:15:17 > 0:15:23on the social agenda. The in coming leadership, Deng Xiaoping, is
0:15:23 > 0:15:27aligned to an older group, to be, frank, their trade marks have been
0:15:27 > 0:15:31crackdowns and economic liberalisation and all the
0:15:31 > 0:15:34inequality that comes with it, and not a great record on corruption.
0:15:34 > 0:15:39In 48 hours time we find out the final balance between those two
0:15:39 > 0:15:45groups inside the Communist Party. And joining me to discuss what the
0:15:45 > 0:15:52outcomes could be, is a man who should know, the Sydney Morning
0:15:52 > 0:15:57Herald's China correspondent, and author of recent book about the
0:15:57 > 0:16:00disgraced party leader. How real are the debates? It is a very real
0:16:00 > 0:16:03debate. This is a very exciting time we are here, in and outside of
0:16:03 > 0:16:09the party, on the left and right, everybody agrees on the very
0:16:09 > 0:16:15problems that you outlined. It is about corruption, it is about neppo
0:16:15 > 0:16:19ism, justice and law d nepotisim, justice and law. Until now, nobody
0:16:19 > 0:16:23has agreed on a solution. The question is whether there is a
0:16:23 > 0:16:26radio map and the party. All of these things mean the party loosens
0:16:26 > 0:16:32its grip, a little bit, on power, and whether it has the ability to
0:16:32 > 0:16:40do that, nobody knows. As a drama it is like hamlet without the ghost.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42Bo Shi Lii is gone, he's dismissed, how is that playing in the Great
0:16:42 > 0:16:45Hall of the People? It is very difficult to overstate the
0:16:45 > 0:16:53importance of it. This is the first time in the modern era where
0:16:53 > 0:16:58everything has been blown open. We have had a peak peek -- peek into
0:16:58 > 0:17:02the core of the system, it looks nasty, abuse of power, corruption,
0:17:02 > 0:17:07torture, and it was run like a personal kingdom, this is not the
0:17:07 > 0:17:11way the Communist Party is supposed to operate. Since then we have seen
0:17:11 > 0:17:16layers, new layers of cynicism and new questions about the legitimacy
0:17:16 > 0:17:19of the party, and an even more pressing acknowledgement. It blows
0:17:19 > 0:17:22open the whole transition process. It means that the rules, that
0:17:23 > 0:17:26everybody thought were there, really it shows that somebody, that
0:17:26 > 0:17:32chaos can intervene into the apparent order? I think that's very
0:17:32 > 0:17:35true. One thing, Bo Shi Li had genius, one of those things was
0:17:36 > 0:17:42recognising we are in a new era, all the elders have gone, there is
0:17:42 > 0:17:45no natural source of legitimacy. long March veterans? No, and you
0:17:45 > 0:17:49need to compete internally. Everyone recognises they have to
0:17:49 > 0:17:52convince, not the old guy on top, but their peers, to do that they
0:17:52 > 0:17:57have to convince them they have the answer for the country. This is a
0:17:57 > 0:18:00very vigorous contested time. Outside the great hall, we are --
0:18:00 > 0:18:04great hall. We are above one of the great streets in Beijing, it is a
0:18:04 > 0:18:08buzzing city. There is the other China, there is the China of the
0:18:08 > 0:18:11internet. What do you pick up from the social media, such as it is
0:18:11 > 0:18:15allowed to exist here, about people's reactions to the Congress?
0:18:15 > 0:18:20There is two Chinas, there are the people on-line, and people who get
0:18:20 > 0:18:26their news from CCTV, really. Chinese state television? That's
0:18:26 > 0:18:28right. People who are on-line, in a completely new mind set, it is
0:18:28 > 0:18:32unrecoginsable from even three or four years ago, how people can
0:18:32 > 0:18:36connect to each other, share each other's problems, realising that
0:18:36 > 0:18:39the official that is causing them trouble is part of the same system
0:18:39 > 0:18:49that is causing their friends trouble. I think what this does is
0:18:49 > 0:18:52it is a demokyiesing technology, whether the party changes --
0:18:52 > 0:18:55dedemocratising technology whether the party change or not.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59effective Government, the party leadership, what is the best guess
0:18:59 > 0:19:02as to the final balance, and what does it mean when we find the final
0:19:03 > 0:19:06balance between the two factions? You mentioned Hu Jintao, he has
0:19:06 > 0:19:10been under a huge amount of pressure lately. One of the
0:19:10 > 0:19:13extraordinary things is it looks like the guy that was supposed to
0:19:13 > 0:19:16have retired ten years ago may be more powerful than anybody else in
0:19:16 > 0:19:20the country. There is nothing in the constitution that says that
0:19:20 > 0:19:25should be so. But it might be so. So we will get a much better idea
0:19:25 > 0:19:29tomorrow. One of the key questions is whether there is two of Hu
0:19:29 > 0:19:34Jintao's guys known as more reformist than others, if they miss
0:19:34 > 0:19:37out it is a real question. It could end up there is stuff to play for,
0:19:37 > 0:19:42for once at a CCP Congress? People say all time this is about the
0:19:42 > 0:19:47future of China. Thank you. Signing off, we will be back for
0:19:47 > 0:19:51the rest of this week, for the all- important finale to this Congress,
0:19:51 > 0:19:56over to you in the studio. Hope it gets warmer. Thank you very
0:19:56 > 0:20:00much. An internal United Nations report, seen by the BBC, says the
0:20:00 > 0:20:04UN was responsible for a grave failure to protect civilians in the
0:20:04 > 0:20:08final stage of Sri Lanka's civil war, three-and-a-half years ago.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12The draft report says senior UN staff in Colombo didn't see it as
0:20:12 > 0:20:22their responsibility, to prevent the killings. The UN's estimated at
0:20:22 > 0:20:26
0:20:27 > 0:20:30least 40,000 were killed in the final months of that conflict.
0:20:30 > 0:20:38It had been one of the world's longest-running and bloodiest civil
0:20:38 > 0:20:44wars. In May 2009, a quarter century of battle ended on the
0:20:44 > 0:20:51shores of this Indian Ocean island. Government forces crushed the last
0:20:51 > 0:21:00of the Tamil Tigers. They had fought for a Tamil state in this
0:21:00 > 0:21:06northern peninsula. Now, all rebel leaders were dead.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10So were tens of thousands of civilians.
0:21:10 > 0:21:14In the years since then the United Nations and others have found
0:21:14 > 0:21:19evidence of abuses for both sides, and possible war crimes. Now the UN
0:21:19 > 0:21:24has investigated itself for its own conduct during the last brutal
0:21:24 > 0:21:26months of war. We have been given a copy of the internal report in the
0:21:26 > 0:21:30final stages. It found the United Nations didn't stand up for the
0:21:30 > 0:21:35very people it should have protected.
0:21:35 > 0:21:39The report concludes this marks a grave failure of the UN to respond
0:21:39 > 0:21:45to early warning in the evolving situation.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49To the detriment of hundreds of thousands of civilians. In Colombo,
0:21:49 > 0:21:52many senior UN staff simply didn't perceive the prevention of killing
0:21:52 > 0:21:56civilians as their responsibility. They weren't being instructed to do
0:21:56 > 0:22:01otherwise from New York. In the UN they did not keep member states or
0:22:01 > 0:22:11the public fully informed. A systemic failure, that should not
0:22:11 > 0:22:14
0:22:14 > 0:22:17happen again. But how did it happen in Sri Lanka?
0:22:17 > 0:22:21September 2008, the Sri Lankan Government launched its final
0:22:21 > 0:22:28assault in the northern region called the Wanni. The UN base was
0:22:28 > 0:22:31in the town of Kilinochchi. No UN peacekeepers were on that mission.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34As fighting intensified, the Government warned UN aid workers it
0:22:34 > 0:22:39couldn't guarantee their safety. The report says the UN never
0:22:39 > 0:22:44questioned the Government's warning. And their departure had a severe
0:22:44 > 0:22:47impact on its ability to provide aid and protect civilians.
0:22:47 > 0:22:52Benjamin Dix was part of the team told to leave. I believe we should
0:22:52 > 0:22:55have gone further north, not evacuate south, and basically
0:22:55 > 0:23:01abandon the civilian population with no protection or witness.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04how did it feel for you then on the ground? As a humanitarian worker,
0:23:04 > 0:23:09questions running through my mind is what is this all about. Isn't
0:23:09 > 0:23:14this what we signed up to do. We're here to protect and witness these
0:23:14 > 0:23:18things. Then having to drive out of there, past these people, wearing a
0:23:18 > 0:23:23helmet and flack jacket and all the protection we have because we are
0:23:23 > 0:23:27international, was, I have never been so ashamed of the colour of my
0:23:27 > 0:23:30skin. Those left behind protested outside
0:23:30 > 0:23:35the UN compound. Begging them not to go.
0:23:35 > 0:23:40I met one woman who was there that day. A school teacher, now seeking
0:23:40 > 0:23:47asylum here in Britain. She asked us not to disclose her identity.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51She called herself Kali. TRANSLATION: We even organised a
0:23:51 > 0:23:56hunger strike, pleading with them not to leave, and to save us. But
0:23:56 > 0:24:06after they left things became very bad. So many people died along the
0:24:06 > 0:24:11
0:24:11 > 0:24:17road. So many people died because In this brutal end game, hundreds
0:24:17 > 0:24:22of thousands of Tamil civilians were trapped, used as pawns by both
0:24:22 > 0:24:26sides. Tamil Tigers forcibly recruited them, or used them as
0:24:26 > 0:24:35human shields. By this time fighting focused on a small area,
0:24:35 > 0:24:40around the towns of Mullatti vu,, and PTK, the Government designated
0:24:40 > 0:24:46called no-fire zones and told civilians to go there.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50But it is accused of shelling the no-fire zone, including hospitals.
0:24:50 > 0:24:54The Government repeatedly denies that.
0:24:54 > 0:24:59Sutu was a Sam mill journalist in the warzone, who fled to the UK
0:24:59 > 0:25:03when the conflict ended. What is your worst memory of the war?
0:25:03 > 0:25:07TRANSLATION: I witnessed the incident where the hospital was
0:25:07 > 0:25:11bombed. There were clear science on the hospital roof that it was a
0:25:11 > 0:25:15hospital. But regardless of the signs, the hospital was bombed. A
0:25:15 > 0:25:21number of people died in front of my eyes. Did you try to send
0:25:21 > 0:25:28messages to the UN, to the world, about what was happening?
0:25:28 > 0:25:34TRANSLATION: I kept sending messages and photos of civilian
0:25:34 > 0:25:37casualties, and of the bombs. I requested my contacted to tell the
0:25:37 > 0:25:41world and intervene and stop the war. Many more just suffer in
0:25:41 > 0:25:46silence. TRANSLATION: I was locked up in a small, dark room where I
0:25:46 > 0:25:53was beaten up with wires, batons and plastic pipes. I was also
0:25:53 > 0:25:58burned with cigarette butt, and they raped me. Kali's story is the
0:25:58 > 0:26:06story of many Tamil, forced to work for the tigers, detained by the
0:26:06 > 0:26:11Government. The report says the UN repeatedly condemned the Tamil
0:26:11 > 0:26:15Tigers for serious human rights offences, but largely avoided
0:26:15 > 0:26:19mention of the Government's responsibilities. This was because
0:26:19 > 0:26:23the information could not be verified, according to them. But
0:26:23 > 0:26:27the report says the information had been verified to a good standard.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30The report notes that throughout the final stages of the bloody
0:26:30 > 0:26:35conflict, the UN issued only one statement, condemning both sides.
0:26:35 > 0:26:39There was a reluctance to publish casualty figures. Why did this
0:26:39 > 0:26:43happen? The report explains it in this way, it said decision-making
0:26:43 > 0:26:47across the UN was dominated by a culture of trade-offs, choosing not
0:26:47 > 0:26:52to speak out against a Government, that was, in the words of the
0:26:52 > 0:27:02report, intimidating UN staff, was seen as the only way to increase
0:27:02 > 0:27:03
0:27:03 > 0:27:07humanitarian access. In the final stages of the war, the
0:27:07 > 0:27:13Government set up what it called "welfare villages", for displaced
0:27:13 > 0:27:16people emerges from the warzone. In reality, they were military-run
0:27:16 > 0:27:21internment camp, to screen people suspected of involvement with the
0:27:21 > 0:27:25Tamil Tiger. The UN confronted a dilemma, it had
0:27:25 > 0:27:31no independent access to locations with persistent allegations of
0:27:31 > 0:27:37human rights abuses. But it decided there was an imperative to provide
0:27:37 > 0:27:40urgent food and medical supplies. But the report notes the
0:27:40 > 0:27:45considerable consternation within the aid community over this
0:27:45 > 0:27:50involvement. Sri Lankan civilians questioned it too. TRANSLATION:
0:27:50 > 0:27:53They did help the people in the camps by supplying food and other
0:27:53 > 0:27:57essential items, but that is not very helpful. Because we were kept
0:27:57 > 0:28:01there as prisoner of the Government. It is almost like someone visiting
0:28:01 > 0:28:11a prison and supplying sweets to the prisoners. It wouldn't save our
0:28:11 > 0:28:15
0:28:15 > 0:28:20lives, and they didn't guarantee any protection for us. The report
0:28:20 > 0:28:24does highlight the positive role of some UN staff on the ground, and
0:28:24 > 0:28:27the secretary-general, Ban Ki-Moon. But it is catagorical, there was a
0:28:27 > 0:28:32systemic failure, everything from the UN's sense of the mission, and
0:28:32 > 0:28:35its machinery was at fault. The UN should be the moral
0:28:35 > 0:28:39conscience of the world. Edward Mortimer is a former senior UN
0:28:39 > 0:28:43official, who now chairs the Sri Lanka campaign for human rights and
0:28:43 > 0:28:48Jews at this. There was no UN force in Sri Lanka, but there were people
0:28:48 > 0:28:51who were there to help the population, and they left actually
0:28:51 > 0:28:55-- justice. There was no UN force in shrilaank, but there were people
0:28:55 > 0:28:58there to help, but they left at the time the people needed them more.
0:28:58 > 0:29:00The Government wanted them out of the way because they didn't want
0:29:01 > 0:29:07anyone to see what was happening. You were part of the system, if
0:29:07 > 0:29:14there was a systemic failure in Sri Lanka, is there any hope it can be
0:29:14 > 0:29:21different? Many of us said at the time that there was a system to
0:29:21 > 0:29:25protect in Sri Lanka, but it didn't the publicity that we got in Libya.
0:29:26 > 0:29:32The north of Sri Lanka was effectively destroyed field by
0:29:32 > 0:29:37field, and tree by and hospital by hospital. And we didn't get the
0:29:37 > 0:29:40reaction. Sri Lanka doesn't have oil and is not situated on the
0:29:40 > 0:29:47Mediterranean, the UN secretary should speak up and say this isn't
0:29:47 > 0:29:52good enough. You may have your strategic great power interests and
0:29:52 > 0:29:58rivalries, but you are also supposed to uphold certain laws and
0:29:58 > 0:30:03principles, and I don't think this in this case you are doing it.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07report says within the last few months of the war there was no
0:30:07 > 0:30:09single engagment. They said member states were heavily influenced by
0:30:09 > 0:30:19what they thought member states wanted to hear, rather than what
0:30:19 > 0:30:20
0:30:20 > 0:30:25they needed to know if they were to respond.
0:30:25 > 0:30:28The end of Sri Lanka's vicious civil war unfolded in a world which
0:30:28 > 0:30:32largly looked away, as the Government vowed to crush a
0:30:32 > 0:30:37terrorist group, banned in many countries, including Britain.
0:30:37 > 0:30:41Now the UN says it want to learn lessons are from this conflict, as
0:30:41 > 0:30:46it confronts new crises in place like Syria. It took a risk in
0:30:46 > 0:30:50ordering this report, we are told it now want to act on it.
0:30:50 > 0:30:54But the war in Sri Lanka won't end until there is a proper reckoning.
0:30:54 > 0:30:58Many say that means an independent international investigation into
0:30:59 > 0:31:04war crimes and crimes against humanity.
0:31:04 > 0:31:09That would demand a kind of courage and commitment we now know the UN
0:31:09 > 0:31:14didn't show throughout the years of battle.
0:31:14 > 0:31:19The BB cl. Has spoken to the UN, who said -- BBC has spoken to the
0:31:19 > 0:31:24UN, but said it can't comment on a leaked report, and said it will
0:31:24 > 0:31:27once the report has been presented to Ban Ki-Moon.
0:31:27 > 0:31:31The Sri Lankan High Commision here in the UK has chosen not to comment
0:31:31 > 0:31:35in the UK has chosen not to comment on the leaked report.
0:31:35 > 0:31:40Should soap operas be more political, Polly Toynbee, writer
0:31:40 > 0:31:44for the Guardian today, accuses The Archers of falling silent on
0:31:44 > 0:31:47Government policy and says it could lead to public disengagment. Does
0:31:47 > 0:31:52popular culture have a responsibility to educate us or
0:31:52 > 0:31:59include us in political discourse. Realistically could soap characters
0:31:59 > 0:32:04discuss the EU Working Time Directive without sending us into a
0:32:05 > 0:32:08coma. 3,000 cockroaches. There are unconfirmed reports that one of the
0:32:08 > 0:32:13stars of I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here has been bitten by a creepy
0:32:13 > 0:32:21Crawley. But an ITV doctor said the creepy Crawley was expected make a
0:32:21 > 0:32:25full recovery. Can the same be said of shrinking
0:32:25 > 0:32:29violet MP Nadine Dorries, who has left her mid-Bedfordshire seat for
0:32:29 > 0:32:33the outback. She said it was a better platform than the Commons
0:32:33 > 0:32:39for airing her views on matters such as abortion. And the ratings
0:32:39 > 0:32:43might seem to bear her out, almost ten million viewsers saw her
0:32:43 > 0:32:47undergo trial by maggot last night. Maybe she has a point. People are
0:32:47 > 0:32:51very cynical about politician, perhaps, if we see a politician
0:32:51 > 0:32:57having to fight with a crocodile, or one of them being humiliated and
0:32:57 > 0:33:01having to talk to a member of a boy band, perhaps they might get their
0:33:01 > 0:33:05message across a bit more. Lucky for me that your bike got a
0:33:05 > 0:33:09puncture, would you like a top-up. No I'm fine. Politicians have been
0:33:09 > 0:33:13happy to tread the soap opera boards for the cameras, but some
0:33:13 > 0:33:17commentators are complaining that a lack of political storylines in the
0:33:17 > 0:33:22programmes themselves is unrealistic. And a lost opportunity
0:33:22 > 0:33:26for engaging millions of viewers in current affairs.
0:33:26 > 0:33:30Soap operas do dodge politics for two good reasons, one the British
0:33:30 > 0:33:33public finds politics very dull, and secondly if you have a rampent
0:33:33 > 0:33:40Labour character or Conservative, you will alienate half the audience.
0:33:40 > 0:33:47Over the years there has been politics in soap operas, Sid Perk,
0:33:47 > 0:33:54the republican in the Archers voted against entry into the Common
0:33:54 > 0:33:58Market. And in Brookside Boby Grant was a vehement Labour shop steward.
0:33:58 > 0:34:03Here is how it could work. It is not like it is a fortune, it has
0:34:03 > 0:34:08over 90K on the clock. Where will we find the money. How, you work a
0:34:08 > 0:34:12full day as it is. What are hard working people, who travel long
0:34:12 > 0:34:17distances to get into work and pay their tacks meant to think. Why is
0:34:17 > 0:34:23it, that when the oil price goes up the petrol price goes up, but when
0:34:23 > 0:34:27the oil price comes down the petrol price just stays the same.
0:34:27 > 0:34:33Actually, having people discussing political things, as indeed they
0:34:33 > 0:34:43would, would liven the Archers up a bit. I could just imagine, I would
0:34:43 > 0:34:50like to see Jacob Rees-Mogg in the corner of the Rovers Return slog it
0:34:50 > 0:34:54out with a conversation about politics. Pussy cat, yes. While the
0:34:54 > 0:34:58infag teetable George Galloway went, so now goes Nadine Dorries, and how
0:34:58 > 0:35:02many others. It has certainly been said in the past that politic is
0:35:02 > 0:35:06showbiz for ugly people. There are a lot of raging egos in Westminster,
0:35:06 > 0:35:12who would absolutely love, I'm sure, Nadine's three week of glory. But
0:35:12 > 0:35:17they wouldn't have the nerve to do it. If she comes through this
0:35:17 > 0:35:21successfully, it is because the woman does have nerve.
0:35:21 > 0:35:28It is a perfect fit, politics is a soap opera afterall, with regular
0:35:28 > 0:35:32characters and recurring plot lines. But no omnibus edition.
0:35:32 > 0:35:37We're joined now by Phil Redmond, the creator of Hollyoaks and
0:35:37 > 0:35:39Brookside, Lembit Opik and Christine Hamilton, who amongst
0:35:39 > 0:35:43other achievements have both appeared on I'm A Celebrity Get Me
0:35:44 > 0:35:48Out Of Here. If I can start with you Phil, would you agree with that
0:35:48 > 0:35:53assessment by Polly Toynbee that politics is largely absent from
0:35:53 > 0:35:56soaps and dramas? Yeah, I would agree whole heartedly. It is
0:35:56 > 0:36:00frustrating for me, because that was one of the reasons why
0:36:00 > 0:36:04Brookside came to an end, really, that the political element, the
0:36:04 > 0:36:08hard slog of social reality never actually sat comfortably with the
0:36:08 > 0:36:14way the channel, and I think most of the television evolved towards
0:36:14 > 0:36:18reality TV. Why did it come to an end? What do you mean it never sat
0:36:18 > 0:36:22comfortably? I think where Brookside raison d'etre was to
0:36:22 > 0:36:27focus on social issues, and they are the symptom or result of
0:36:27 > 0:36:32political actions. I think early in the report, the mention of Bobby
0:36:32 > 0:36:38Grant being a trade unionist, that was balanced by Paul Collins from
0:36:38 > 0:36:43management, and the Huntingdons being from the professional classes,
0:36:43 > 0:36:47and Gavin Taylor from the informal economy. The whole point of
0:36:47 > 0:36:50Brookside was to put the different political aspect of the society in
0:36:50 > 0:36:53juxtaposition, so we could have the debates. And right through the
0:36:53 > 0:36:58history, the nurses were there to talk about the National Health
0:36:58 > 0:37:02Service, even Frank scam Rogers, as a trucker was talking about splits
0:37:02 > 0:37:06and transport. I think one of the problems was that television in the
0:37:06 > 0:37:1090s drifted away from this sort of thing, trying to chase, I think it
0:37:10 > 0:37:14was chasing ratings on a more cost effective basis. It got more and
0:37:14 > 0:37:18more difficult to enter into contentious debates. Broadly, was
0:37:18 > 0:37:23it the audience that left you, do you think the audience couldn't
0:37:23 > 0:37:29handle that kind of stuff, they wanted to find it easier in
0:37:29 > 0:37:36entertainment? Not at all. The strongest, most powerful moments in
0:37:36 > 0:37:39Brookside's history was when we were running the Jordash story,
0:37:39 > 0:37:44about domestic violence, and it was underlining about the law and how
0:37:44 > 0:37:48it was slow to react and how women were treated under the law. The
0:37:48 > 0:37:53lessons I have come away with on Grange Hill, Brookside and
0:37:53 > 0:37:57Hollyoaks is the more challenging the story the more the audience
0:37:57 > 0:38:02appreciate it. The difficulty is the overregulation of broadcasting,
0:38:02 > 0:38:06and the broadcasters had the mantra of if in doubt take it out. There
0:38:06 > 0:38:10is the appetite in the audience. Ten years after Brookside finished,
0:38:10 > 0:38:18people are asking me why don't we have soaps to cover these political
0:38:18 > 0:38:22issues. Christine, Lempit, it is your fault, you are the easily
0:38:22 > 0:38:26digestible reality, I can see Phil is nodding. Of reality TV that
0:38:26 > 0:38:29doesn't cover any of that stuff? don't think the average viewer, I
0:38:29 > 0:38:32may be wrong, the average viewer turns on a soap, to use the
0:38:32 > 0:38:36shorthand for their politics. It seems to me that you might not get
0:38:36 > 0:38:39party politics, but if you get the party politics you will have each
0:38:39 > 0:38:44party keeping an eagle eye on how much exposure their particular
0:38:44 > 0:38:49views get. I remember way back in the 1960s when Labour was in power,
0:38:49 > 0:38:53I'm already Jack, do you remember than wonderful -- I'm All right
0:38:53 > 0:38:57Jack, do you remember that wonderful film, and Labour said not
0:38:57 > 0:39:01to air it near general election, because it was an apolitical film.
0:39:01 > 0:39:05It is hard to get the balance right. I don't feel that people want it in
0:39:05 > 0:39:09their soaps. They watch soaps for escapism. You get people talking
0:39:09 > 0:39:13about whether it is abortion or whatever, but you don't want party
0:39:13 > 0:39:20politics. Let me let Phil respond to that. People don't go to their
0:39:20 > 0:39:257.30 for that kind of stuff? have to remember you can't just
0:39:25 > 0:39:29group all soaps as a generic term. People knew exactly what Brookside
0:39:29 > 0:39:33was, and when I was running Emmerdale, we knew it was
0:39:33 > 0:39:38completely different. Every single character in a soap should have a
0:39:38 > 0:39:42strong back story, and within that, should actually be part of their
0:39:42 > 0:39:48political allegiance, that is what forms and shapes us all. Polly, in
0:39:49 > 0:39:54an article today, used the phrase "looking at politics eliptically" I
0:39:54 > 0:39:59think that is really the see thing. You don't go on television and put
0:39:59 > 0:40:03a polemic where you talk about the consequences of political actions.
0:40:03 > 0:40:07Nadine said, or one thing she was saying is she wants to use a
0:40:07 > 0:40:10reality show to talk about, and give her a platform to talk about
0:40:10 > 0:40:14abortion. Do you think that politicians should do
0:40:14 > 0:40:18entertainment? I completely agree with Nadine's decision to go into
0:40:18 > 0:40:21the jungle. That was a minority view last week, I'm glad to see
0:40:21 > 0:40:25that is taking currency now. Why? Because it is authentic. Nadine is
0:40:25 > 0:40:28being herself. It seems to me she's coming across quite well. It is
0:40:28 > 0:40:31authentic to end up in a jungle with a load of people you don't
0:40:31 > 0:40:34know on television? The situation is contrived, but she is being
0:40:34 > 0:40:38herself. I think that one of the great complaints that people have
0:40:38 > 0:40:41about politics is they are all grey, you can't connect with them, the
0:40:41 > 0:40:44public don't really dial with politicians in a real way. She --
0:40:44 > 0:40:47deal with politicians in a real way. She as coming across in the
0:40:47 > 0:40:57environment of an entertainment programme that millions of people
0:40:57 > 0:40:57
0:40:57 > 0:41:03watch. This is the big thing this is why I disagree with Phil Redmond,
0:41:03 > 0:41:06politics has a low viewing on a low year and high on a high year. You
0:41:06 > 0:41:09can't force people to look at politics in the bad days. Do you
0:41:09 > 0:41:13buy this that we get a real politician, and it is justified
0:41:13 > 0:41:19because we understand more about the real person? If Nadine had come
0:41:19 > 0:41:22to me in advance, and say should I go on the show and people do it. I
0:41:22 > 0:41:25have warned some people off and stopped them going on it, others,
0:41:25 > 0:41:28like Carol Thatcher, you will be great, do it. She didn't ask me, I
0:41:29 > 0:41:31would have said I don't think you should do it as a sitting member of
0:41:31 > 0:41:39parliament. That was my view, and slightly half of me still think she
0:41:39 > 0:41:42doesn't be doing it. But she is doing it. The viewing figures are
0:41:42 > 0:41:47enormous and they are getting bigger. You can't hide in the
0:41:47 > 0:41:55jungle, she is coming across as you are, she has been pretty brave to
0:41:55 > 0:41:59expose herself in that way. Jooing I think the viewers will make the -
0:41:59 > 0:42:03- I think the viewers will make the decision they always do, she will
0:42:03 > 0:42:09either come out as a flake or not. You are saying it is a magnifying
0:42:09 > 0:42:13glass, there is nothing wrong with it? The bigger issue, politically,
0:42:13 > 0:42:19is people will ask, why is an MP, theoretically elected to represent
0:42:19 > 0:42:23them taking time out to do that? She has made a good investment of
0:42:23 > 0:42:26time, she has been so respected in parliament. The first time I have
0:42:26 > 0:42:30ever told people to vote for a Conservative MP, is Nadine Dorries
0:42:30 > 0:42:35in the jungle. What I'm really saying is what Nadine is doing here
0:42:35 > 0:42:38is taking a risk, I think we all agree with that, but taking an
0:42:38 > 0:42:43alternative approach. I think Phil should agree with this, at the end
0:42:43 > 0:42:47of the day what she's trying 0 do is reconnect with the public.
0:42:47 > 0:42:50Everybody...You Are not going to tell me people understood your Lib
0:42:50 > 0:42:55Dem policies after you had had been in the jungle? No, but more people
0:42:55 > 0:42:59knew me, they had a bigger opinion, I have more opportunity to access
0:42:59 > 0:43:04people not inherently interested in politics. People who say it is a
0:43:04 > 0:43:08publicity stunt done for money are cynics? Nadine is a little niave if
0:43:09 > 0:43:14she thinks conversations about reducing the number of week when
0:43:14 > 0:43:18you have an abortion will be prime time television, it is not. If she
0:43:18 > 0:43:21does well and the people take to her she will have a greater
0:43:21 > 0:43:24enhanced platform, she will be better known than the cabinet and
0:43:24 > 0:43:30Shadow Cabinet combined. It will give her a platform to speak about
0:43:30 > 0:43:33the things she feels strongly about. If more people go out, more the
0:43:33 > 0:43:40disengaged voters go out as a result to recognising some of these
0:43:40 > 0:43:44people, politician, that's not a bad thing, is it? That's not a bad
0:43:44 > 0:43:50thing, but that is not really the issue. She could do that on any
0:43:50 > 0:43:56kind of show. It is raised the awareness, that is fine. The real
0:43:56 > 0:44:01issue is we don't have any political discourse on television
0:44:01 > 0:44:04at the moment. Even you guys, although you have your own
0:44:04 > 0:44:07political soap opera at the moment, you are more concerned about the
0:44:07 > 0:44:15careers of politicians in the Westminster village than you are
0:44:15 > 0:44:19with taking the issue right across. Credit for Nadine, six million
0:44:19 > 0:44:22people watched that, and three million watched Question Time, I
0:44:22 > 0:44:25respect her, that is the way to get politics into the mind of the
0:44:25 > 0:44:28public. Most people aren't interested in politics, that is the
0:44:28 > 0:44:32sad truth. Thank you very much all of you. We have run out of time, we
0:44:32 > 0:44:37will take you very quickly through tomorrow's papers. The Telegraph