14/11/2012

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:00:13. > :00:19.Tonight, Israel saw him as a top terrorist, today killed the Hamas

:00:19. > :00:22.military leader. After further strikes in Gaza tonight, civilian

:00:22. > :00:25.deaths and blood curdling promises of retaliation, could the

:00:25. > :00:29.assassination of Ahmed al-Jabari, lead to an even more bloody

:00:29. > :00:32.conflict in the Middle East. Also tonight, strikes across Europe,

:00:32. > :00:36.hundreds of thousands of workers take to the streets to protest at

:00:36. > :00:40.austerity and cuts. In Spain, rubber bullets and

:00:40. > :00:45.teargas, fired at protestors in central Madrid, temperatures

:00:45. > :00:50.inflamed by the evictions of those losing their homes. Here at home, a

:00:50. > :00:54.ray of sunshine, as unemployment is down again, sag flaigs might be

:00:54. > :01:00.coming back. Stagnant growth, -- stagflation, might be coming back,

:01:00. > :01:03.stag grant growth and higher inflation. We will discuss this

:01:03. > :01:08.with economist, protestors and politician. The soldier, the

:01:08. > :01:14.secrets and the sex scandal the, all America is talking about,

:01:14. > :01:19.General Petraeus pet talks to Newsnight. I'm under no illusion

:01:19. > :01:23.that he knew it was the right decision that he personally had to

:01:23. > :01:28.take. Tomorrow sees a by-election in a seat, which for 30 years has

:01:28. > :01:32.predicted the British political weather, Corby. How do you go about

:01:32. > :01:40.replacing Louise Mensch. You are not going to start writing chicklit

:01:40. > :01:46.books, Have I Got News To You? No connection to heavy rock bands?

:01:46. > :01:50.20 years older than Louise, and I wouldn't know what to do with a

:01:50. > :01:52.rock star if I found one. Good evening. There is no doubt

:01:52. > :01:58.that Ahmed al-Jabari was a big player in the struggle between the

:01:58. > :02:05.Palestinians and Israel. He was the military commander of Hamas in Gaza.

:02:05. > :02:12.A man described bit Israeli Defence Forces as someone with blood on his

:02:12. > :02:17.hands the IDF assassinated him, and strikes across the country have

:02:17. > :02:19.followed. Israel has said only the start of an operation to hit

:02:19. > :02:26.militant groups. NATO strikes have been launched tonight. In Egypt,

:02:26. > :02:31.the first country to sign a peace treaty with Israel, and now under

:02:31. > :02:33.the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood. Mohamed Morsi

:02:33. > :02:38.immediately recalled Cairo's ambassador. What does the killing

:02:38. > :02:44.of Ahmed al-Jabari tell us about the new and explosive geography of

:02:44. > :02:49.the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. What happened here? I have to show

:02:50. > :02:56.you rather graphic images. This is the scene in Gaza City today,

:02:56. > :03:00.immediately after the destruction by Israel. This is the Carrying

:03:00. > :03:04.Ahmed al-Jabari, the Hamas military chief, and one other Hamas official,

:03:04. > :03:07.they were killed. As far as Israel is concerned this is a highly

:03:07. > :03:12.successful operation against a man responsible for many missile

:03:12. > :03:22.attacks against Israel. Also responsible for Hamas's links with

:03:22. > :03:24.

:03:24. > :03:29.the main military backer, Hamas. The Israeli army res -- released

:03:29. > :03:34.this film which shows the car being tracked and hit. His body was taken

:03:34. > :03:38.to hospital, followed soon afterby some very young casualties of other

:03:38. > :03:42.naval and air strikes. At the end of the day, Gaza's health ministry

:03:42. > :03:45.said that a further nine people had been killed, at least in various

:03:45. > :03:50.strikes. But, of course, we expect that number to rise.

:03:50. > :03:54.What do you make of the timing of this? Well, Israel's killed many

:03:54. > :03:59.Hamas military commanders over the years, including one senior

:03:59. > :04:04.commander, who was suffocated in a hotel in Dubai two years ago. But,

:04:04. > :04:09.this is the most senior target since 2004. There is no doubt, I

:04:10. > :04:15.think, this is linked to a rather sudden upsurge in missile attacks

:04:15. > :04:19.from Gaza into Israel, particularly in the last couple of weeks. Indeed

:04:19. > :04:24.110 rocket attacks since Saturday. What the Prime Minister, Binyamin

:04:24. > :04:31.Nethanyahu, said, is we have to give a clear signal against Hamas.

:04:31. > :04:36.And also in other strikes, the main aim was to try to reduce or get rid

:04:36. > :04:40.of Hamas's stockpile of rockets. Those are the Iranian rockets that

:04:40. > :04:45.can go rather further and target main population centres in Israel.

:04:45. > :04:50.There has been a lot of rhetoric after this attack today. Does the

:04:50. > :04:54.conflict seem, now, likely to escalate? What Mr Nethanyahu said

:04:54. > :04:59.today was that if necessary the operation, Israelis operation

:04:59. > :05:05.against Hamas, would be broadened. I spoke to the former head of

:05:05. > :05:09.planning in the Israeli Defence Force, Giora Ireland, and asked

:05:09. > :05:14.what that might mean. He said, this is only possible, he said it would

:05:14. > :05:18.be logical to extend the attack, not only to strictly military Hamas

:05:18. > :05:23.tarts, but also to Hamas infrastructure, to police stations,

:05:23. > :05:28.to bridges, as a way of punishing Hamas. Hamas's reaction to this was

:05:28. > :05:35.very predictable. It talked about opening the gates of hell against

:05:35. > :05:40.Israel. And already today it has been reported that intercepted by

:05:40. > :05:43.Israel's shield there have already been 13 Hamas rockets successfully

:05:43. > :05:49.intercepted. I suppose what is also different is the whole political

:05:49. > :05:52.context now, the Middle East has changed. Mohamed Morsi in Cairo,

:05:52. > :05:56.Muslim Brotherhood, his political party, were saying Israel has to

:05:56. > :06:00.get its head round the fact that things have changed? Absolutely,

:06:00. > :06:04.this is a completely new landscape, this is the first conflict of this

:06:04. > :06:08.kind between Hamas and Israel, since the Arab Spring, and since

:06:08. > :06:13.the election of a Muslim Brotherhood Government in Egypt, by

:06:13. > :06:18.ideolgical is at one with Hamas. Egypt very, very strongly of course,

:06:18. > :06:22.has condemned this attack. I think it will remain principally at the

:06:22. > :06:25.level of rhetoric. Because even the new Government in Egypt has

:06:25. > :06:31.indicated very clearly it is committed to the peace treaty with

:06:31. > :06:36.Israel and so on. The main danger is, Israel has very important

:06:36. > :06:39.security co-operation with Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula, where we have

:06:40. > :06:43.seen a big upsurge in terrorism, since the Egyptian revolution. For

:06:43. > :06:48.both sides, they would really suffer if that co-operation was

:06:48. > :06:52.curtailed. The other part of this political context is that within

:06:52. > :06:55.Israel itself, where we are in a run up to an election, and as you

:06:55. > :06:59.well know in the run up to the election the Prime Minister tends

:06:59. > :07:03.to want to look tough on security? Certainly, because of the missile

:07:03. > :07:07.attacks on Israeli towns and village, there has been even more

:07:07. > :07:12.annual a big, big demand in Israel for action against Hamas, and

:07:12. > :07:17.certainly that is what Binyamin Nethanyahu was responding to. Right

:07:18. > :07:21.across the boar, in Israel, at -- board, in Israel, at least to begin

:07:21. > :07:27.with, this will be welcomed. Certainly it will do Mr Nethanyahu

:07:27. > :07:33.absolutely no harm at all in the elections in January.

:07:33. > :07:38.Daniel Ayalon, the Israeli deputy minister joins me now. What do you

:07:38. > :07:45.think that Israel has achieved by killing Ahmed al-Jabari? We have to

:07:45. > :07:51.remember that Ahmed al-Jabari was the Bin Laden of Hamas. He has many,

:07:51. > :07:57.many innocent lives on his head. The fact that he was overseeing the

:07:57. > :08:02.new attacks on Israel for the last two week, by actually taking him it

:08:02. > :08:11.is not only self-defence, it is a classic self-defence, and hopefully

:08:11. > :08:17.a message and prevention and preefplive -- pre-emptiveness for

:08:17. > :08:20.the future. There is no way to reason with the terrorists, but by

:08:20. > :08:27.defending yourself in a way where they won't be able to operate again.

:08:27. > :08:34.You have in the past killed Hamas founder Yassin and his successor,

:08:34. > :08:37.you have killed previous military commanders, and while you have

:08:37. > :08:41.successively removed one enemy of Israel today, you have probably

:08:41. > :08:50.created a whole lot of other one. There will be a successor to this

:08:50. > :09:00.man? Well, I would beg to differ. We did what we had to do in killing

:09:00. > :09:03.

:09:03. > :09:07.the head of terror. We did achieve deterrence. We gave Gaza entirely

:09:07. > :09:14.to the Palestinians, we left Gaza all together in 2005, seven years

:09:14. > :09:19.ago. Since then, instead of having a responsible part, taking

:09:19. > :09:26.responsibility and managing the lives in Gaza and negotiating with

:09:26. > :09:30.us on peace and reconciliation, we saw, actually, that ham maz was

:09:30. > :09:34.emboldened, getting -- Hamas was emboldened getting an Arsenal of

:09:34. > :09:38.terror, long range missiles, and terrorising more than one million

:09:38. > :09:44.Israeli civilians in the population on the southern border and southern

:09:44. > :09:47.parts of Israel. What we see now. Picking up on the point of

:09:47. > :09:52.civilians, there were civilians killed on the other side today,

:09:52. > :09:58.would you like to apologise for those needless deaths? Anybody

:09:58. > :10:04.innocent civilian who gets killed is deplorable, and I would

:10:04. > :10:08.apologise for anything. We would not like to do that. But, I would

:10:08. > :10:13.say that the responsibility for the death and the killing is of the

:10:13. > :10:16.Hamas. Because what do they do? Not only do they target the civilian

:10:16. > :10:20.population in Israel, but they plant themselves, implant

:10:20. > :10:23.themselves in the midst of the civilian population in Gaza. In

:10:23. > :10:28.fact, they use the Gaza population as a human shield for their hidious

:10:28. > :10:31.attacks. We will leave it there.

:10:31. > :10:36.Workers and students in more than 20 countries across the European

:10:36. > :10:39.Union took part in strikes and protests today, to show their

:10:39. > :10:42.disgust at cuts and austerity measures. As you might expect, the

:10:42. > :10:47.largest protests were in those Mediterranean countries where the

:10:47. > :10:51.budget axe is making the deepest impact. In the new Sick Man of

:10:51. > :10:56.Europe, Spain has an even more emotional issue, some people are

:10:56. > :10:59.being forced out of their homes in a wave of prepossessions and

:10:59. > :11:09.evictions. We report on -- repossessions and evictions. We

:11:09. > :11:09.

:11:09. > :11:14.report on the human cost of the economic mess.

:11:14. > :11:18.Again they came, from the factories, from the public sector, from their

:11:18. > :11:22.homes. Some who marched in tonight's demonstration, were from

:11:22. > :11:26.Spain's nearly six million unemployed. Some were pensioners.

:11:26. > :11:30.This is the second general strike in Spain this year. They wanted to

:11:30. > :11:38.protest against the Government's austerity, and to show their anger

:11:38. > :11:42.at its effect on ordinary Spanish people. Here, in a suburb of Madrid

:11:42. > :11:46.this morning, one family looked set to suffer the most extreme

:11:46. > :11:50.consequence, losing their home. Inside this block were three

:11:50. > :11:54.generations, six people on the brink of being evicted. The police

:11:54. > :11:59.came, the bailiffs were there, protestors learned of it and

:11:59. > :12:06.gathered. Earlier this week, Spanish banks had said the

:12:06. > :12:11.evictions of the most needy people would be suspended. They had come

:12:11. > :12:15.under pressure after two suicides linked to evictions and an outcry.

:12:15. > :12:20.Today, perhaps because of the general strike, they haven't

:12:20. > :12:27.arrived, so it is almost certain, although we will have to wait for a

:12:27. > :12:33.while, that this eviction has not, will not be carried out. Then,

:12:33. > :12:40.celebration. The official responsible for the eviction had

:12:40. > :12:47.not turned up. The family were immensely relieved. TRANSLATION:

:12:47. > :12:57.I'm really happy, she told me. And I'm nervous. But when I asked her

:12:57. > :13:00.

:13:00. > :13:05.what happens next? She had no idea? The bank could go back to court and

:13:05. > :13:10.get a new eviction date. She's the only wage earner in her family now,

:13:11. > :13:13.a cleaner, she can't pay the mortgage of 1300 euro every month.

:13:13. > :13:17.They are celebrating a small victory in this Madrid

:13:17. > :13:21.neighbourhood, but nobody knows what will happen next, not even the

:13:21. > :13:24.lady herself, and nobody knows either whether this is to be the

:13:24. > :13:28.pattern going forward, fewer evictions, fewer repossessions. If

:13:28. > :13:33.so, what will be the consequences of that for Spanish banks, and for

:13:33. > :13:37.Spain itself. Spain has to make its mortgage law

:13:37. > :13:41.more lenient, to bring it into line with the rest of the EU. If there

:13:41. > :13:45.is a freeze on evictions, some say, that could have an impact on the

:13:45. > :13:49.banks. It will surely have an impact, because it will increase

:13:49. > :13:53.the debt of the banks. But I don't think that's the worst problem the

:13:53. > :13:59.banks have. So it will be just an added problem, and could be

:13:59. > :14:02.properly solved. We then have to think that going on with the

:14:02. > :14:06.evictions will also cause serious problems, not just in human terms,

:14:06. > :14:10.or in social terms, but also in economic termsment we are talking

:14:10. > :14:15.about now those evictions we are seeing now is people who lost their

:14:15. > :14:20.jobs in 2009, because the law is very slow. This is just a gathering

:14:20. > :14:25.storm, we will see it worse in the coming years.

:14:25. > :14:30.Beatrice is a nurse, supporting today's strike, taking part in

:14:30. > :14:37.tonight's march. In 10% of Spanish families now, both parents are out

:14:37. > :14:42.of work. Even those with one income worry. Beatrice has finished her

:14:42. > :14:49.temporary contract, her husband works in the often unpredictable

:14:49. > :14:57.building industry. They are worried about the future. TRANSLATION:

:14:57. > :15:00.any point you could lose your job, we could maybe stay afloat on

:15:00. > :15:02.unemployment benefit and savings for a year at most. There will be a

:15:02. > :15:08.moment where we have to choose between paying the mortgage and

:15:08. > :15:11.eating, obviously I have a daughter and I have to feed her.

:15:11. > :15:16.TRANSLATION: It is a difficult situation. The Government are

:15:16. > :15:20.making it tougher for us, with two salaries, you really struggle to

:15:20. > :15:26.pay your bills every month. If one of the salaries goes, it is even

:15:26. > :15:29.worse. Unions claim the turnout today and

:15:29. > :15:33.tonight has been strong, police estimates were far more modest, the

:15:33. > :15:38.night is not over though. These demonstrations have been

:15:38. > :15:42.taking place across the country, not just in Madrid, and police say

:15:42. > :15:46.there have been over 100 arrests during the day. It is quite late

:15:46. > :15:52.now in the capital, but some people still have an appetite for protest.

:15:52. > :15:56.The main rally is over, they are on their way to another demonstration.

:15:56. > :16:01.And their mood was defiant. They will do it again, this English

:16:01. > :16:07.teacher told me. We have to go to the streets, we have to be a group

:16:07. > :16:13.of people, not people individually, you know. We have to fight for our

:16:13. > :16:18.rights. The Government says it will not change its policies. And the

:16:18. > :16:22.country's current economic position leaves little room for manoeuvre.

:16:22. > :16:28.More strikes, more protests, seem certain.

:16:28. > :16:32.We have a PhD student and supporter of the demonstrations today,

:16:32. > :16:36.Mariana Mazzucato is professor of economics at Sussex university, and

:16:36. > :16:38.Jose Maria Beneyto is a spokesman for Spain's People's Party on

:16:38. > :16:43.Spanish affairs. Was this another day of

:16:43. > :16:49.demonstration in Spain, or have things changed? No, it wasn't just

:16:49. > :16:52.a demonstration. First, it was the largest cord flated strike and

:16:52. > :16:57.protest movement -- co-ordinated strike Europe has ever seen. It

:16:57. > :17:02.shows the nature of change in protests. At the Spanish level, it

:17:02. > :17:05.was the outcome of an increasing social unrest that has been

:17:05. > :17:12.developing over the last year as people get to live the consequences

:17:12. > :17:18.of the socialisation of the financial crisis. Evictions is that

:17:18. > :17:25.part of it, you are losing your home, 350,000 people since 2008?

:17:25. > :17:29.People are getting evicted from their own home by the very same

:17:29. > :17:32.banks the taxes helped to bail out. The Government have been

:17:32. > :17:35.controlling the interests of the financial sector and not the

:17:35. > :17:39.interests of those they are meant to represent. You have an economic

:17:39. > :17:46.crisis, you have a social crisis, now perhaps you have a public order

:17:46. > :17:53.crisis? Well, I wouldn't dramatise too much the situation. Because, of

:17:53. > :17:57.course, you know, the right to strike is granted by the

:17:57. > :18:03.constitution, there were protest and demonstrations today, they were

:18:03. > :18:08.very peaceful. There were also -- they were also limit the in their

:18:08. > :18:11.skom. There has been an -- limited in their scope, there has also been

:18:11. > :18:16.an expression of the people's feelings. But I wouldn't dramatise

:18:16. > :18:20.it and say it is a general unrest in the country. When you have a

:18:20. > :18:23.third of a million people over the past four years losing their homes.

:18:23. > :18:29.You have somebody who apparently committed suicide as a result of

:18:29. > :18:34.being evicted, things have changed in Spain? The person who committed

:18:34. > :18:41.suicide was linked to an eviction, they were not directly evicted from

:18:41. > :18:48.the house. Of course the situation is not easy. We have, as a

:18:48. > :18:52.Government, we are in a position negotiated with a moratorium for

:18:52. > :18:57.the extreme cases of need. We are fully aware of the situation of a

:18:57. > :19:03.number of the Spanish citizens. Of course, you know, the course of

:19:03. > :19:07.fiscal consolidation is not an easy path, but I don't think we have

:19:07. > :19:13.another one. We need growth and jobs, but we need, particularly,

:19:13. > :19:18.first, to tackle the problem of too much public expenditure of the past.

:19:18. > :19:22.The years before. Let me bring in Mariana Mazzucato here. It's tough,

:19:22. > :19:26.it's hard, is Spain on the right course, because, basically, in

:19:26. > :19:30.slightly different ways, all of Europe is doing broadly the same

:19:30. > :19:33.thing? I think it is absolutely on the wrong course. Because basically

:19:33. > :19:37.what we are seeing are these massive cut, which are not creating

:19:37. > :19:40.any gain. It is all pain with no gain. This is why we have these

:19:40. > :19:45.demonstrations. So, in fact, Spain was a country that before the

:19:45. > :19:48.crisis had quite a low deficit, 3- 4%, it is very hard to say that

:19:48. > :19:51.Spain's problems today are because it was spending too much. Perhaps

:19:51. > :19:55.it was spending in the wrong place, but for sure it was not the public

:19:55. > :19:59.debt that was the problem. It was the private. Instead what we are

:19:59. > :20:02.seeing is public sector wages are come down, public services are

:20:02. > :20:06.being put, and this, of course, is hurting demand, as well as general

:20:06. > :20:09.confidence in the economy. We don't have any investment. And we don't

:20:09. > :20:14.really see the end, it will get worse. It will be a 50%

:20:14. > :20:20.unemployment amongst the young. 25% for the whole economy, and this is

:20:20. > :20:23.only getting worse. You are going a way of grief, in other words, which

:20:23. > :20:30.is you are taking the pain, but the gains are not there? It has nothing

:20:30. > :20:36.to do with the situation in Greece. I do not agree with what has just

:20:36. > :20:42.been said. If you look into the figures, now Spain is having

:20:42. > :20:46.positive data. We have increased enormously our exports,

:20:46. > :20:50.productivity is increasing. It is not that we are in the path of

:20:50. > :20:54.Greece. It is a completely different situation. What do you

:20:54. > :20:57.think the Government should do, then, as suggested, broadly,

:20:57. > :21:05.European Governments are practising austerity, one end to another, they

:21:05. > :21:11.all seem to think it is working, in some ways, you have just heard the

:21:11. > :21:15.argument for it? The situation is not working, and the Government is

:21:16. > :21:20.hiding behind this narrative. There are plenty of other options to take,

:21:20. > :21:25.they have chosen not to. instance? There has been

:21:25. > :21:29.conversations on a whole range of measure, including taxes on

:21:29. > :21:34.financial transactions, abolition of tax havens o at least

:21:34. > :21:37.prohibiting to give Government contracts to those companies in the

:21:37. > :21:41.tax havens, and not putting the bad on the most vulnerable. Many things

:21:41. > :21:45.have been suggested, the Government is choosing to ignore them. What

:21:45. > :21:49.would you be the alternative, broadly is that what was just

:21:49. > :21:59.advocated? I would support those measure, with very interesting in

:21:59. > :22:01.

:22:01. > :22:04.Spain, and it differentiatates it from Greece. -- grease. They were

:22:04. > :22:09.lead investors in wind and solar energy, that has all gone down here

:22:09. > :22:12.since the crycy is, those kinds of investments in new technologies,

:22:12. > :22:20.was positioning Spain to become what Germany is today. The real, I

:22:20. > :22:26.think, problem right now, is unlike what we saw today, which is a co-

:22:26. > :22:30.ordinated action by the European Trade Union's Confederation. We

:22:30. > :22:32.don't have the same level of co- ordination in the European

:22:33. > :22:37.Commission, in what all the countries should be doing to become

:22:37. > :22:40.competitive like Germany. Germany is investing a lot in all sorts of

:22:40. > :22:44.things, they have patient capital through a state investment bank, by

:22:44. > :22:48.is funnelling resources directly to the companies who need it, as

:22:48. > :22:52.opposed to always going indirectly via private banks, which is not

:22:52. > :22:57.working. What do you fear might happen now, if this is the route

:22:57. > :23:02.that Spain is going? Government's seriously doing its

:23:02. > :23:05.best to sink the country as much as it can. All the measures they have

:23:05. > :23:10.taken have produced this horrible human crisis. Now it is not a

:23:10. > :23:19.financial crisis, it was a financial crisis had a has turned

:23:19. > :23:22.into a social and human crisis. have produced a human crisis?

:23:22. > :23:28.is certainly not the case. The human crisis comes from the fact

:23:28. > :23:31.that we had a deficit of 9.4% last year. With a the previous

:23:31. > :23:35.Government. -- with the previous Government. Our Government was

:23:35. > :23:41.putting public expenditure to the top in Spanish history. This was

:23:41. > :23:45.the real problem. You cannot find, as a country, with a 9.4% deficit

:23:45. > :23:50.every year. This is the real issue that we have to tackle, first, and

:23:50. > :23:55.then, of course, you need growth, and you need jobs. You need

:23:55. > :23:56.measures in order to improve those two points as well. We're running

:23:57. > :24:04.out of time, thank you all very much.

:24:04. > :24:07.In the 1960s, the Conservative politician, Iain MacLeod coined the

:24:07. > :24:09.phrase "stagflation" to describe low growth and rising inflation.

:24:09. > :24:12.Today the Governor of the Bank of England talked of a long and

:24:13. > :24:17.winding road to recovery, in which low growth is likely, and inflation

:24:17. > :24:22.is a danger. But the latest figures continue to show one bright spot,

:24:22. > :24:26.unemployment continues to fall. Not quite the old stagflation of the

:24:26. > :24:30.60s. Economist, Howard Archer, has coined a new definition of what is

:24:31. > :24:35.ahead, perhaps a DIRE decade, Disappointing Inflation, Rotten

:24:35. > :24:45.Expansion. We have been trying to figure out where growth might come

:24:45. > :24:54.

:24:54. > :24:57.from, Gerard Lyons reports. These people are in fashion, they

:24:57. > :25:01.call themselves the Bloomberg of the fashion sector. They are a

:25:01. > :25:04.dotcom that started up three years ago and is now hiring one new

:25:04. > :25:08.employee a month. There are two places in a month where you could

:25:08. > :25:12.do a business like our's, either you New York or London, we looked

:25:12. > :25:17.at New York or London, it seemed like the talent pools were fairly

:25:17. > :25:20.equivalent. It seemed like the friction for doing business of

:25:21. > :25:24.maybe a tiny bit lower in New York, but getting much better in London.

:25:24. > :25:27.Also, critically, in the fashion industry, fashion moves faster in

:25:27. > :25:34.London as well. It really seemed like London was the right place to

:25:34. > :25:40.set up. There are already 300 start-ups in

:25:40. > :25:45.tech city, nicknamed "sill conround about", and many wider in the East

:25:45. > :25:52.London area. They could be the answer to the question, why is the

:25:52. > :25:57.UK economy so weak, yet creating so many jobs. Unemployment has fallen

:25:57. > :26:02.to 2.51 million people, or 7.8%, signal as robust labour market. The

:26:02. > :26:07.number of people collecting jobseeker's allowance rose to 1.58

:26:07. > :26:11.million. The number of time work stands at a record of 8.1 million.

:26:11. > :26:15.Temporary workers are also near record highs of 1.6 million. This

:26:15. > :26:20.suggests the figure for those underemployed could be close to 10%

:26:20. > :26:26.of the work force. I don't think one would say that the data release

:26:26. > :26:33.this morning were weak. Some signs in the claimant count of a small

:26:33. > :26:38.increase, that may -- maybe it is beginning to move. There were still

:26:38. > :26:42.falls in unemployment, a rise in employment, a big increase in total

:26:42. > :26:47.hours work. It is still a strong labour market. There is very little

:26:47. > :26:51.unemployment in tech city, business is booming and it is creating a

:26:51. > :26:55.virtueous circle, meaning its success attracts the best software

:26:55. > :27:02.developers in Europe. They are not paid peanuts, most of the staff are

:27:02. > :27:05.earned over �40,000 u and the average age is over 28. There are

:27:05. > :27:11.hundreds of families barely surviving on the minimum wage.

:27:11. > :27:15.Unemployment in some neighbourhoods is 40%. Campaign groups like London

:27:15. > :27:19.Citizens, are hoping to place a thousand less well off people with

:27:19. > :27:22.technology firms nearby. It is really hard to have two Londons in

:27:22. > :27:27.such a small area, on the one side you have the rich, the other side

:27:27. > :27:30.you have the really poor. You can see where the money is. And how

:27:30. > :27:34.people just throw away money, literally. And then I'm coming to

:27:35. > :27:39.work and working with families that are really struggling. There is

:27:39. > :27:43.families that do not have the money, at all, to access to feed their

:27:43. > :27:47.children. I'm having to find food vouchers for them. So that at least

:27:47. > :27:54.Friday, for the rest of the weekend, they have got food to eat. That's

:27:54. > :27:58.really hard to see. It may not be very aesthetic, but silicone round

:27:58. > :28:01.about and its people may yet to prove to be a thing of great beauty.

:28:01. > :28:06.An ecosystem of hundreds of start- ups, employing thousands of well-

:28:06. > :28:09.paid people. It happens just as the banking sector, long an engine of

:28:10. > :28:13.growth, appears to be entering a period of irreversible decline.

:28:13. > :28:17.The financial sector accounts for 10% of the UK economy, but few

:28:17. > :28:20.people believe it will remain that high in the coming years. An

:28:20. > :28:27.estimated 250,000 people are directly employed by banks and

:28:27. > :28:32.insurers in the City at the moment. Down from its precrisis peak of

:28:32. > :28:36.2350,000. With all major banks cutting staff, especially in

:28:36. > :28:42.investment banking, staff numbers will be probably at a 20-year low

:28:42. > :28:48.by the end of next year. The hope is that places like the Google

:28:48. > :28:51.Campus, will create a shrew of self-employed people who hire

:28:51. > :28:56.themselves, and others in cafe-like environments like this. What the

:28:56. > :28:59.Government is doing right is championing Tech City and the tech

:29:00. > :29:02.cluster in the UK. Opportunities to improve are in the areas of

:29:02. > :29:07.immigration, enabling technical talent coming to the UK. In the

:29:07. > :29:10.area of education, strengthening the education system, especially

:29:10. > :29:13.the technical degrees and the skills that people come out with

:29:13. > :29:19.from university, and financing. the meantime, the rest of the old

:29:19. > :29:23.economy, on which Britain is still very dependant, will have to limp

:29:23. > :29:29.on with anaemic growth for a few years, before a new economy emerges

:29:29. > :29:34.from the Chris lisence. Mark Hoban was the co-founder of

:29:34. > :29:40.lastminute.com, and an invester in start-up, and Gerard Lyons is chief

:29:40. > :29:42.economist at the Standard. One economist said it was a DIRE decade,

:29:42. > :29:45.Disappointing Inflation, Rotten Expansion, is that how you see

:29:45. > :29:50.things? The world economy is doingle with, it is continuing to

:29:50. > :29:55.grow. What the UK, like western Europe needs to do, address

:29:55. > :29:58.underlying problems. If we start to do that we can become more positive

:29:58. > :30:01.the reality of the situation is whatever economy one looks at, the

:30:01. > :30:04.outcome depends on the interaction between the fundamentals and public

:30:04. > :30:08.confidence. In the UK the fundamentals are not great, but

:30:08. > :30:12.better than they were. Policy doesn't really have much room for

:30:12. > :30:15.manoeuvre, but could do more, unfortunately confidence is pretty

:30:15. > :30:20.rock bottom. The question is if policy could do more, what policy

:30:20. > :30:23.would be doing the more, what would you like to see? I would like to,

:30:23. > :30:27.obviously, entrepeneurs, we have record levels of people starting

:30:27. > :30:31.companies in this country. That's the good news. The thing is s they

:30:31. > :30:35.are just not getting big enough. They are not expanding faster. The

:30:35. > :30:39.emphasis that has been coming on international trade, I do think,

:30:39. > :30:42.actually, is very relevant. I think it is actually still much harder

:30:42. > :30:45.than one thinks. Using the Internet as a network to help people trade

:30:45. > :30:49.international, out of the UK, this great trading nation, I think there

:30:49. > :30:55.is lots of room for optimisim there. If we don't do it, the world's

:30:55. > :30:58.going to be belonging to Amazon, is that a possibility? That is

:30:58. > :31:02.something I would love to seat economists focus on, what happens

:31:02. > :31:06.in ten years time if e commerce and the Internet sales will be as big

:31:06. > :31:10.as we think it will be, and most of the companies are maerpblg. That is

:31:11. > :31:13.why the sec saving -- American. That is why the tech savings is

:31:13. > :31:17.more important, there is so much economic value that could be taken

:31:17. > :31:20.away from the UK by the big American tech giants. Do you

:31:20. > :31:23.broadly agree with that, that is one part of the future. The

:31:23. > :31:26.Government talks about rebalancing the economy, away from financial

:31:26. > :31:30.services, that may happen for all kinds of reasons, high-tech is one

:31:30. > :31:35.part of the future? I think what is interesting when we look at these

:31:35. > :31:39.big companies, like Google, Amazon, Apple, in the US, and talk about

:31:39. > :31:44.how can we in Europe and the UK create them? There is this myth

:31:44. > :31:50.that the reason we don't have those kind of companies is we don't have

:31:50. > :31:54.enough angel investors and venture capitalists. If you look at Silicon

:31:54. > :31:58.Valley, there was a huge state of investment, going goggle as all

:31:58. > :32:04.georhythm was funded by the science division. Everything behind the

:32:04. > :32:07.iPhone, that makes it a smartphone, touch screen display, the Internet,

:32:07. > :32:12.the voice-activated personal assistant, is state-funded. You

:32:12. > :32:17.need the venture capitalist, but in the US with nano tech and the

:32:17. > :32:20.internet, the VC model is good after the state has made the huge

:32:20. > :32:25.investments that venture capitalists can ride N this country

:32:25. > :32:28.we don't have the confidence of a Government that feels it does have

:32:28. > :32:32.the manoeuvring possibility to confidently invest in these new

:32:33. > :32:39.areas. I personally wouldn't like to see Government invest. Already

:32:39. > :32:42.the European investment, Europe invests 40% of venture capital.

:32:42. > :32:47.That is the limit you are wondering. What the Government can do,

:32:47. > :32:51.encourage through the tax system it, entre pent nurses to keep investing.

:32:51. > :32:54.That is what they are doing -- entrepeneurs, to keep investing.

:32:54. > :32:59.That is what they are doing. There is the question of unemployment

:32:59. > :33:02.going down, I have seen a lot of analysis, one is they are not good

:33:02. > :33:06.jobs and part-time. Another analysis is real wages in Britain

:33:06. > :33:10.have gone down, which helps a flexible labour market? A whole

:33:10. > :33:13.host of things are happening. Public sector jobs are being shed.

:33:13. > :33:17.Although those in public sector jobs now are getting paid more. In

:33:17. > :33:23.terms of the rest of the economy, part-time work, temporary jobs are

:33:23. > :33:26.rising. It is a mixed picture. We saw this in Japan, when the

:33:26. > :33:29.financial crisis happened 20 years ago. People held on to workers in

:33:29. > :33:33.the hope that the economy would turn round. Also because it is

:33:33. > :33:37.difficult to rehire worker. I think the key issue, coming back to the

:33:37. > :33:41.wages point. The big problems we have in Britain and continental

:33:41. > :33:44.Europe is a lack of demand. What should the Government be doing,

:33:44. > :33:49.trying to get more demand into the economy. We have talked about

:33:49. > :33:52.infrastructure, there needs to be tax cuts to get money into people's

:33:52. > :33:55.pockets, the excise duty on petrol, all these things help. At the same

:33:55. > :34:00.time you need to encourage big companies, who have the finances

:34:00. > :34:06.available, to start investing. does that square with the view that

:34:06. > :34:11.the cuts haven't started yet and it will get deeper next year? Stp do

:34:11. > :34:15.any of you foresee -- do any of you foresee the kinds of troubles we

:34:15. > :34:18.have seen in Spain happening here? The problem is demand, but both in

:34:18. > :34:22.terms of the consumers, because we have had this, basically what we

:34:22. > :34:27.need is a Government that doesn't act like a business. Business

:34:27. > :34:31.invested too little during the boom and too little during the bust. We

:34:31. > :34:36.need a counter cyclical Government that makes up for the fall in

:34:36. > :34:39.investment. What guides private sector investment? GDP in all

:34:39. > :34:43.countries is the most volatile part of GDP. This notion that some how

:34:43. > :34:51.it will be tax cuts that will make this country more entrepeneural,

:34:51. > :34:54.and lead investments, I think is really flawed. Two wrongs don't

:34:54. > :35:00.make a right. The previous Government spent too much in the

:35:00. > :35:05.good times and not in the rest. The issue would be to stop spending in

:35:05. > :35:12.the bad times. We need more money in people's pockets, but we need an

:35:12. > :35:14.innovative industrial sector. I was at the Guildhall on Monday, the

:35:14. > :35:19.Government was talking about an industrial policy.

:35:19. > :35:25.We need more money in the economy. The etoric and branding of Britain

:35:25. > :35:28.-- rhetoric and branding of Britain being open for business to attract

:35:28. > :35:32.more business. We will get the Skype message out. People were

:35:32. > :35:37.talking today in Brussels about why are so many start-ups are moving to

:35:37. > :35:41.London. That is great use. We will get some billion-dollar companies,

:35:41. > :35:46.it is about tax cuts, and Britain is open for business, that is a

:35:46. > :35:50.message coming across. I completely disagree, there is a big poster

:35:50. > :35:54.outside the British and skills administration, saying Britain is

:35:54. > :36:01.open for business, lowest tax and lowest registration. People are

:36:01. > :36:06.leaving the UK. Not because we haven't demand in the economy.

:36:06. > :36:10.go to companies with a strong strategic investment policy S

:36:10. > :36:14.Pfizer went to Boston. Other companies are coming to London.

:36:14. > :36:16.have invested in several coming from Spain moving to the UK.

:36:17. > :36:21.green companies are the new -- the new companies are internet, the

:36:21. > :36:25.green companies are leaving. Recent political history shows

:36:25. > :36:28.whichever party wins the seat of Corby ends up in Downing Street.

:36:28. > :36:33.There is little wonder the by- election campaign has been keenly

:36:33. > :36:38.fought. Tomorrow, following the transient political comment, Louise

:36:38. > :36:42.Mensch who quit to spend more time with her family, Corby voters will

:36:42. > :36:48.have a chance to tell us what they think of the Government and the

:36:48. > :36:54.opposition parties. We have been zoo see -- see which way the wind

:36:54. > :37:00.is blowing. First to bury a non-fact about

:37:01. > :37:05.Corby. I was a bit bored so I dismandled the Corby trouser press.

:37:05. > :37:08.It is not the home of the Corby trouser press, let's dismandle the

:37:08. > :37:13.Corby by-election, because this is the home of some very interesting

:37:13. > :37:18.politic. For a start, it feels like several constituencies, the

:37:18. > :37:22.agricultural, the industrial, the affluent and less well off. Because

:37:22. > :37:25.of this diversity, Corby acts as a national opinion poll. In fact, in

:37:25. > :37:35.every single general election, since the constituency of formed,

:37:35. > :37:39.the seat has been won by the party that goes on to form a Government.

:37:39. > :37:44.They loved Maggie, and pipped for John, just, and then fell for tone

:37:44. > :37:47.he yoo, then David came along. There is -- Tony, then David came

:37:47. > :37:51.along. They were general elections where voters asked who do you want

:37:51. > :37:55.to be a Government. This is a by- election, very different. Voters

:37:55. > :37:58.here are answering the question, what message do you want to send to

:37:58. > :38:05.the Government. The toughest fight belongs to the

:38:05. > :38:12.Conservatives, defending a 3.5% majority, in, well, let's not say,

:38:12. > :38:22.the best of circumstances. The outgoing MP was very outgoing. For

:38:22. > :38:26.some reason, Louise Mensch, the glamorous game-show inhabiting

:38:26. > :38:30.novelist, decided to give up politics to go to America with her

:38:30. > :38:33.rock star husband had. I'm 20 years older.

:38:33. > :38:37.The Conservative candidate replacing her, promises to be

:38:37. > :38:43.different. Is the electorate listening. The limiting polling in

:38:43. > :38:48.the seat has been suggesting Labour has a lead. What is dragging your

:38:48. > :38:53.ticket? Is it national politics, David Cameron, local factor, Louise

:38:53. > :38:58.Mensch and that baggage, or is it simply the economy in the electoral

:38:58. > :39:03.cycle. What is hold you back? not being held back, the economy is

:39:03. > :39:07.holding up, a million new jobs created since the coalition came

:39:07. > :39:12.into power. 5 new companies set up in Corby and east Northamptonshire

:39:12. > :39:16.in the last quarter. Apprenticeships are up 124%. There

:39:16. > :39:22.are lot of good signs on the economy. I think people recognise

:39:22. > :39:26.that. This being a by-election, plenty of other parties are

:39:26. > :39:31.fighting Corby. But, as they say, Corby is fighting back.

:39:31. > :39:35.They are banned from canvasing in the town centre, and well, were

:39:35. > :39:41.these signs put up specially. The Lib Dems are smiling for

:39:41. > :39:44.photographs, but it is unlikely they will be come Friday. The polls

:39:45. > :39:48.suggest the only hope they have is their candidate, Jill Hope. A by-

:39:48. > :39:55.election should be a classic Lib Dem opportunity. How difficult is

:39:55. > :39:59.it this time when Lib Dems are in Government? Obviously it is very

:39:59. > :40:02.difficult, I spent many years in opposition, it is so easy, you

:40:02. > :40:05.criticise others and say you could do better, you never have to

:40:05. > :40:09.promise anything concrete. All of a sudden we are delivering

:40:09. > :40:11.policiesering but it is wonderful. I have spent many years as a

:40:11. > :40:18.Liberal Democrat watching Government make really bad

:40:18. > :40:21.decisions. Now 75% of our manifesto has been delivered. Jostling the

:40:21. > :40:27.Liberal Democrats for third place is UKIP. At the general election it

:40:27. > :40:31.was the BNP that came forth. That time UKIP didn't stand. We are

:40:31. > :40:34.speaking common sense, we are really identifying with common

:40:34. > :40:39.sense policies and politic. People are really, they can't put a pin

:40:39. > :40:42.between the other parties. So they are looking for change. They are

:40:42. > :40:48.looking for an independent voice. If they vote for the other three

:40:48. > :40:53.they know there will be no change. Which brings us on to labour,

:40:53. > :40:57.trying not to look too confident, but, according to the polls, poised

:40:57. > :41:02.for their first by-election gain from the Conservatives for 15 years.

:41:02. > :41:07.How much of this do you think that you are detecting pro-Labour, and

:41:07. > :41:12.how much of this is anti- Government? People will make up

:41:12. > :41:17.their mind on Thursday, I hope people vote. They will make up

:41:17. > :41:22.their mind on a range of things. It is important people choose the best

:41:23. > :41:25.person to be the MP, I have shown I'm there for the families. I have

:41:25. > :41:35.ran a campaign to fight for the truth in the hospital. People can

:41:35. > :41:44.see I'm a fighter for this area. We leave the Corby campaign with

:41:44. > :41:53.the Conservatives in a familiar- sounding village. We are in

:41:53. > :41:58.Warmington, shall I say don't panic? That was Warmington-on-Sea.

:41:58. > :42:01.General David Petraeus was, amongst other things, the thinking man's

:42:01. > :42:04.soldier, genuine and curious, and very much admired in the United

:42:04. > :42:11.States and beyond. Now the sex scandal in which he's embroiled has

:42:11. > :42:14.led to him being forced out of the CIA and led to the US military

:42:14. > :42:18.apparatus being subject to a certificate yes, sir investigation.

:42:18. > :42:24.We assess the significance -- serious investigation. We assess

:42:24. > :42:29.the scandal with the help of the British soldier General Petraeus's

:42:30. > :42:33.second in command in Afghanistan. So the man lioniseed by the

:42:33. > :42:37.Americans, pressed for turning around the war in Iraq, called upon

:42:37. > :42:42.to try the same in Afghanistan, and then sent off to the CIA has fallen.

:42:42. > :42:47.There was a time when he could do no wrong, in front of congressional

:42:47. > :42:53.committees. But now, he has gone, like some hero of the ancient age,

:42:53. > :42:59.because of a woman. General Graham Lamb was his deputy

:42:59. > :43:04.in Iraq, and became a close friend. So the loss of him as an individual,

:43:04. > :43:11.in my view, in no way is insignificant. The loss to the

:43:11. > :43:14.organisations, though. Should also be taken into account. His actions

:43:14. > :43:19.were inappropriate. They were unworthy. They were just to people

:43:19. > :43:24.like myself, who will always look up to David, before, now and in the

:43:24. > :43:29.future. We are just disappoint ed. He knows that. But the implication

:43:29. > :43:34.and the consequences to the organisations, both the institution

:43:34. > :43:40.of the US military, and the likes agency, in effect, will be impacted

:43:40. > :43:44.by these event. What could be lost policy wise is

:43:44. > :43:48.Petraeus's advocacy for more action on Syria, or a reduction of drone

:43:48. > :43:52.strikes in Pakistan. I first interviewed General

:43:52. > :43:57.Petraeus in Baghdad four years ago, and have met him several times

:43:57. > :44:03.since. Once he introduced me to Paula Broadwell, the woman he

:44:03. > :44:07.subsequently admitted having an affair with. Whatever his drive and

:44:07. > :44:11.extraordinary intellect, David Petraeus's long years on

:44:11. > :44:16.operational tours and perhaps his brush with cancer, left him open to

:44:16. > :44:20.the attractions of a driven young woman.

:44:20. > :44:25.Miss Broadwell was investigated by the FBI, originally, as the

:44:25. > :44:31.possible source of threatening e- mails to Gill kely, another friend

:44:31. > :44:35.of General Petraeus. However explanation of Mrs Kelley's e-mails

:44:35. > :44:40.revealed thousands from General John Allen, current NATO commander

:44:40. > :44:44.in Afghanistan. The scandal has now engulfed the White House too.

:44:44. > :44:48.General Petraeus had an extraordinary career. He served

:44:48. > :44:57.this country with great distinction, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and as

:44:57. > :45:02.head of the CIA. By his on assessment, he did not meet the

:45:02. > :45:05.standards that he felt were necessary as the director of the

:45:05. > :45:12.CIA, with respect to this personal matter that he is now dealing with,

:45:12. > :45:19.with his family, and with his wife. It is on that basis that he

:45:19. > :45:25.tendered his resignation, and it is on that basis that I accepted it.

:45:25. > :45:33.Does a man who has wielded powers of life and death, but brought down

:45:33. > :45:37.by an apair signal American purience or is it a symbol of bath

:45:37. > :45:41.Sheba ism, they are looking at modern King Davids in America, of

:45:41. > :45:47.high command. The question becomes why do successful and moral good

:45:47. > :45:51.people get caught up in doing wrongful things, it is a lack of

:45:51. > :45:58.supervision, accountability, too much praise, not enough, I think

:45:58. > :46:01.completeness in their life, if you would, social isolation, the

:46:01. > :46:06.biggest one could be that people don't believe the rules apply to

:46:06. > :46:12.them, or they believe, wrongly so, that they have the power to cover

:46:12. > :46:18.their wrongdoing. That is what we have come to call the bath Sheba

:46:18. > :46:23.syndrome. General McChrystal because of staff indiscretions,

:46:23. > :46:28.Petraeus to infidelity, and now John Allen is being investigated

:46:28. > :46:33.for his correspondence with Gill Kelly, that runs to more than

:46:33. > :46:38.20,000 e-mail, many suggestive. What advice does a veteran

:46:38. > :46:43.commander offer those settinging to wield high command? You are in the

:46:43. > :46:48.constant space of being blamed. You are in the constant space of risk

:46:48. > :46:54.to reputation and career. You're in the constant space of catastrophic

:46:54. > :46:59.failure. So, you know, this is a big deal. But our expectations

:46:59. > :47:06.should be and should continue to be, that we look to the very highest of

:47:06. > :47:11.standards of those individuals, and continue to expect that of them.

:47:11. > :47:14.But, when they stumble and fall, as many will surely do, and David,

:47:14. > :47:18.General David is an example of that, we want to be a little careful in

:47:18. > :47:23.just being too harsh in our judgments. What was once a private

:47:23. > :47:28.matter, between a man and his wife, has brought down a celebrated

:47:28. > :47:34.American hero. But, the model of the modern general, has to be

:47:34. > :47:38.morally impecable as well as skilled on the battlefield.