:00:13. > :00:19.Labour's first by-election gain from the Conservatives in 15 years.
:00:19. > :00:24.Is it a straw in the wind? Labour's just won in Corby, and the Labour
:00:24. > :00:28.leader, Ed Miliband, is about to turn up in this village, Middleton.
:00:28. > :00:32.Middle town, Middle England, you can see what message they are
:00:32. > :00:36.trying to ram home. Or was it down to one person? Louise Mensch
:00:36. > :00:39.triggered the election when she fled Westminster for New York. We
:00:39. > :00:49.will ask if she blames herself. Reports tonight that Israel will
:00:49. > :00:53.call up 75,000 army reservists, is a ground war in Gaza inevitable.
:00:53. > :00:58.Particularly as Jerusalem seems to be the latest target for Hamas. A
:00:58. > :01:04.peace maker, who has been down this road before, gives his verdict. As
:01:04. > :01:07.Police Commissioner fever hits England, we will look at the case
:01:07. > :01:17.of the empty ballot box. We will speak to a woman who knows
:01:17. > :01:18.
:01:18. > :01:21.how it works in Gotham. There were two recounts in the
:01:21. > :01:25.Corby by-election today, but not cause the Labour victory was in any
:01:25. > :01:29.doubt, the flurry of extra activity was caused by the Liberal Democrats,
:01:29. > :01:33.who thought they were in with a chance of saving their deposit.
:01:33. > :01:37.They weren't. They were a fourth, behind a resurgent UKIP, and a
:01:37. > :01:40.Conservative candidate who was drafted in after the high-profile,
:01:40. > :01:43.sitting Conservative, went to spend more time with her family. The
:01:43. > :01:48.Labour candidate will be seeing a lot less of his. He won with a
:01:48. > :01:57.swing of more than 12%. Allegra Stratton spent the day in the
:01:57. > :02:00.constituency. A by-election is pretty standard
:02:00. > :02:04.fare. In fact, maybe without you noticing it t around this country,
:02:04. > :02:07.there have been at least half-a- dozen since this Government changed
:02:07. > :02:12.hands. There are a couple more later this month. Ballots, licked,
:02:12. > :02:16.posted and flicked, in Britain these bite-sized referendums have
:02:16. > :02:24.been more frequent than hot weather. What on earth was all the fuss
:02:24. > :02:28.about today? Or what on Mars? Let me introduce you to the Corby
:02:28. > :02:33.crater, this isn't really it, we couldn't afford it, it will do. The
:02:33. > :02:37.real Corby create certificate a great big hole on Mars. But the
:02:37. > :02:42.departure of Louise Mensch for New York, leaves a Tory-shaped hole in
:02:42. > :02:45.Corby. It threatens to scar David Cameron's tenure, it will be the
:02:45. > :02:48.first his party has lost since joining Government. Here we are in
:02:48. > :02:53.Corby at the scene of the destruction wrought by Louise
:02:53. > :02:56.Mensch T looks like a huge hole have been driven through David
:02:56. > :03:00.Cameron's leadership. It wasn't meant to be like this.
:03:00. > :03:03.SuperThursday was supposed to see a Conservative and Liberal Democrat
:03:03. > :03:07.uprise, voters were to flock to the polls to vote for the Prime
:03:07. > :03:10.Minister's new idea, police chiefs. It appears they haven't, and the
:03:10. > :03:15.by-election doesn't look good either. Is this a new low for David
:03:15. > :03:19.Cameron. You lot are feeling it in Corby? I have a lot of friend out
:03:19. > :03:22.of work. I'm out of work. I haven't worked in a long time. You know. I
:03:22. > :03:28.have tried to get a job, you know, but it is so hard out there, you
:03:28. > :03:31.know. One study described Corby as the
:03:31. > :03:35.UK's hot spot for youth unemployment. People in Cameron
:03:35. > :03:43.Court voted on this, on the possibility of a hospital service
:03:43. > :03:48.closure, and on immigration. the people that came round about
:03:48. > :03:53.the Conservatives and the other parties, didn't seem interested in
:03:53. > :03:58.local issues. About the hospital, and what's going on, and what was
:03:58. > :04:01.happening. To just generally, and I just thought, well, this time I'm
:04:01. > :04:06.voting, I know who I'm going to vote for, the people that were
:04:06. > :04:09.anxious to talk to me and listen to me. Hilda told me about her fears
:04:09. > :04:17.of immigration, her son had had managed a team of foreign workers
:04:17. > :04:23.before losing his work while they stayed on. Ed Miliband devoteds of
:04:23. > :04:27.his conference speech to curbing the once uncurbable, EU immigration.
:04:27. > :04:31.You clearly like the local candidate, what about the national
:04:31. > :04:35.candidate, Ed Miliband? Well, some things are good, I don't understand
:04:35. > :04:41.him sometimes. What don't you understand? Well, he seems a bit,
:04:41. > :04:44.which he was, when he came here, he didn't even come into the town, he
:04:44. > :04:51.went to one of the of the villages. Moments later, Labour would be
:04:51. > :04:55.declared the winner. And I do here by declare that Andrew Sawford is
:04:55. > :05:02.duly elected as member of parliament. The first victory for
:05:02. > :05:07.the newly-coined One Nation Labour Party. Labour's just won in Corby,
:05:07. > :05:10.that is why Ed Miliband is just turning up in this village,
:05:10. > :05:15.Middleton, middle town, Middle England, you can see what message
:05:15. > :05:19.they are trying to ram home here. Cheers here in Middleton, but
:05:19. > :05:23.elsewhere in the country, Labour had had failed to win the mayoral
:05:23. > :05:26.election in Bristol. Last month the Tory peer, Lord Ashcroft, had
:05:26. > :05:30.published polling showing that, while many Tories were switching to
:05:30. > :05:35.Labour in Corby, not as many could see Milliband as Prime Minister.
:05:35. > :05:38.Remember from earlier, our interviewee Hilda, who lived in
:05:38. > :05:42.Cameron Court. REPORTER: Can we ask you a quick question, we have
:05:42. > :05:47.spoken to Labour voters who liked Andy Sawford a lot, they voted for
:05:47. > :05:52.them, but said you were in their words, wishy washy. Do you have
:05:52. > :05:56.have more work to do? We always have more work to do. Do you
:05:56. > :05:59.personally have more work to do? always have more work to do, they
:05:59. > :06:02.shows people are turning to the Labour, and listening to our
:06:02. > :06:07.message. We will take the message across the country. On the eve of
:06:07. > :06:12.his victory, in 197, Tony Blair won in the Wirral South by-election w a
:06:12. > :06:17.swing of 17%. Today, Ed Miliband saw a swing of nearly 13%, that's
:06:17. > :06:22.more than the 8% swing to his party when it last captured the seat from
:06:22. > :06:29.the Conservatives in 1997. But the Tories today pointed out that in
:06:29. > :06:32.the Crewe and nat witch by-election, there was a 17.6 % swing for them,
:06:32. > :06:35.that was just before they formed part of a Government. Back to the
:06:35. > :06:39.here and now, today there was euphoria for UKIP, they knocked the
:06:39. > :06:41.Liberal Democrats into fourth place. With UKIP doing so well, the Prime
:06:41. > :06:48.Minister comes under greater pressure to act tough on Europe.
:06:48. > :06:52.For the people of Cameron Court, is it all over for their prime
:06:52. > :06:55.ministerial name sake? Most people we spoke to here actually voted
:06:55. > :07:00.Labour. Elsewhere in public opinion, there may be a bit more hope for
:07:00. > :07:03.the Prime Minister. Last week when he was accosted on national
:07:03. > :07:06.television with a list of supposed paedophiles, that may have been a
:07:06. > :07:10.defining moment for him. The Prime Minister's own pollsters show that
:07:10. > :07:12.the public thought he handled it rather well. So this period in the
:07:13. > :07:17.parliament may not actually be too much of a low point for David
:07:17. > :07:20.Cameron. If true, Corby has not yet noticed.
:07:20. > :07:26.David Cameron will have to work to ensure he remembers Louise Mensch
:07:26. > :07:30.for her time in parliament, rather than her departure.
:07:30. > :07:35.Louise Mensch, who was the Conservative MP for Corby, is in
:07:35. > :07:39.New York. Was this defeat your fault? Yes, it was. Absolutely. I
:07:39. > :07:42.had to resign to be with my family. Not because I couldn't take the
:07:42. > :07:46.pressure, the Prime Minister was very good about allowing me to work
:07:47. > :07:50.my schedule around my children. But because my husband lived in America,
:07:50. > :07:54.and we were facing a possible 13- year separation from each other.
:07:54. > :07:59.That doesn't make it any easier for the party on the ground, and I know
:07:59. > :08:09.this was really difficult for them. Under those circumstances, I think
:08:09. > :08:10.
:08:10. > :08:13.a swing of 12% in Crewe and Natwitch, it was a good result
:08:13. > :08:16.really. I think they will be quietly pleased by it. Thank you
:08:16. > :08:19.for that, this is pretty bad for the Conservatives, you are in a
:08:19. > :08:22.worse position in Corby than you were at the height of Tony Blair's
:08:22. > :08:27.powers in 1997, your share of the vote significantly down? With
:08:27. > :08:30.respect, it is a by-election. I don't think the governing party has
:08:30. > :08:34.won a marginal by-election in something like 20 years. We have
:08:34. > :08:37.seen over and over again, even safe seats change hands against the
:08:37. > :08:41.governing party, in a by-election. That is when they didn't have to
:08:41. > :08:45.contend with a sitting MP leaving for family reasons. Now, under
:08:45. > :08:49.those circumstance, to get 12% swing is pretty run of the mill, if
:08:49. > :08:53.that. So I don't think that it's anything that we can draw wider
:08:53. > :08:57.lessons from. And indeed, we saw in Labour's failure to take Bristol
:08:57. > :09:00.that the message hasn't gone out across the country. It is a by-
:09:00. > :09:03.election situation and by-election result. What about all your former
:09:03. > :09:07.constituents, telling Allegra it was about unemployment, immigration
:09:07. > :09:11.and hospitals, not about you? of them were saying that. But of
:09:11. > :09:15.course these are vox pop, it depend where is you go. The anecdotal
:09:16. > :09:23.evidence on the ground was people didn't really understand why I had
:09:23. > :09:27.left, and they were understandably disappointed. I can very much see
:09:27. > :09:33.that, an MP should see out the term if they possibly can. I couldn't do
:09:33. > :09:38.that, I always will regret having put the party in that position.
:09:38. > :09:40.you think they couldn't understand because your version of events was
:09:40. > :09:47.flatly contradicted publicly by your husband? That was on the
:09:47. > :09:50.doorstep before I came out. These the perils of not talking politics
:09:50. > :09:54.with my very left-wing husband. This isn't about talking politic,
:09:54. > :09:59.this is talking family, you said you went to New York to keep family
:09:59. > :10:03.together. He said she thought she would get killed at the next
:10:03. > :10:07.election? That wasn't a reason. Early on in my term as an MP, I
:10:07. > :10:11.would worry about the polls and confide that to Peter. Once I had
:10:11. > :10:15.made the decision to step down any way, which I might say was a front
:10:15. > :10:19.page story in my local paper in October 2011, it is a matter of
:10:19. > :10:22.public record. When you decide to step down at the next election, you
:10:22. > :10:26.stop worrying about the polls. If you are not running, they don't
:10:27. > :10:30.matter. Worries about elections are a reason not to stand again, not a
:10:30. > :10:33.reason to leave mid-term. Your husband also says you were worried
:10:33. > :10:39.about not being promoted, perhaps you weren't Conservative Party
:10:39. > :10:44.enough, that have another reason? That's Peter's view, not mine. With
:10:44. > :10:48.apologies to the Labour MP, Austin Mitchell who said I shouldn't
:10:48. > :10:51.contradict my master in public. Peter, who loves me very much, was
:10:51. > :10:55.much more worried about it than I was. Contrary to public view, I
:10:55. > :11:01.never wanted to be a minister. I remember asking the Chief Whip if I
:11:01. > :11:03.one day might make PPS. I had small children to look after, two days in
:11:04. > :11:08.my constituencies, I never could have done it in the first place and
:11:08. > :11:12.I never wanted to. If you are taking all the blame for this, as
:11:12. > :11:14.you have so candidly done, and if this defeat does turn out to be the
:11:14. > :11:18.beginning of the end for David Cameron, that is quite something to
:11:18. > :11:22.hang around your neck, isn't it? Well, the one doesn't follow from
:11:22. > :11:25.the other. I do have to take the blame for this defeat, whilst at
:11:25. > :11:28.the same time knowing there was genuinely no other choice for my
:11:28. > :11:33.family. It was nothing something I would have done frivolously. But as
:11:33. > :11:37.I said, a by-election with a modest, historic swing, is not going to
:11:37. > :11:40.mean anything to David Cameron's leadership. The same polling that
:11:40. > :11:44.exactly predicted the margin of victory in Corby, showed that
:11:44. > :11:50.voters in the constituency prefer the economic team of David Cameron
:11:50. > :11:54.and George Osborne to Milliband and Balls, I don't think this has any
:11:54. > :11:57.wider conotations whatsoever. Thank you. The conflict in the
:11:57. > :12:01.Middle East has escalated further. For the first time, a rocket was
:12:01. > :12:06.aimed at Jerusalem itself. Tonight there are reports that the Israeli
:12:06. > :12:12.cabinet has approved 75,000 reservists to be called up, earlier
:12:12. > :12:16.the President of Egypt visited Gaza to show solidarity. Not far away,
:12:16. > :12:23.across the border, Israeli tanks lined up, amid widespread
:12:23. > :12:27.speculation that Israel would launch a ground invasion.
:12:27. > :12:35.As missiles arc across the skies of Israel and Gaza, it is a conflict
:12:35. > :12:44.apparently shooting out of control. New terrors sent Israelis
:12:44. > :12:49.scrambling for shelter. Destruction is raining down again on Gaza. In a
:12:49. > :12:53.Middle East, transformed by the Arab uprisings, can hostilities
:12:53. > :12:58.still be contained? For Israel, the shock today was that citizens,
:12:58. > :13:01.living in the sent of the country, around Tel Aviv and -- centre of
:13:01. > :13:05.the country, around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, were forced into
:13:05. > :13:14.shelters, by rockets from Gaza, that normally only reach southern
:13:14. > :13:22.towns near the border. In many respects the state of Israel is
:13:22. > :13:25.more locked together in a common fate with the poor people in
:13:25. > :13:32.southern Ashkelon who have been absorbing the rocket attacks for
:13:32. > :13:40.years. The big cities, without casualties, is a major blow for
:13:40. > :13:46.Hamas militant groups, it is achieved, partly with the longer
:13:46. > :13:52.range missiles, manufactured by Israel's worst enemy, Iran. When
:13:52. > :13:55.you have air raid signals going off for the first time since 19 1.
:13:55. > :13:59.Today it is Iranian manufactured weapons, but it means Iranian
:13:59. > :14:03.ballistic missiles, can they also get through Israel's missile
:14:03. > :14:08.defences, can they also strike Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and other cities.
:14:08. > :14:13.Today Israeli tanks moved towards Gaza's border, as tens of thousands
:14:13. > :14:17.more reservists were called up. Israel's escalated the conflict in
:14:17. > :14:21.recent days. Assassinating Hamas's military chief, in response to
:14:21. > :14:24.increasing missile attacks from Gaza. But also against the
:14:24. > :14:27.background of an up coming election in which the Prime Minister,
:14:27. > :14:32.Binyamin Nethanyahu, needs it appear strong. The calculation for
:14:32. > :14:39.Israel now, in the face of further Hamas provocation, is whether it is
:14:39. > :14:43.safe or wise to go further down the road towards all-out war.
:14:43. > :14:51.Crucially, will it avoid repeating its invasion of Gaza, nearly four
:14:51. > :14:54.years ago. That left more than 1100 Palestinians dead, according to the
:14:54. > :14:57.Israeli army, more than 1400 according to the Gaza authority.
:14:57. > :15:02.There a huge difference you have to keep in mind. The Israel defence
:15:02. > :15:08.forces have learned this from the previous round in 2009. The Israeli
:15:08. > :15:13.Defence Force, and Israel itself, are targeting military targets.
:15:13. > :15:19.There are preparations for a ground invasion, but perhaps no appetite
:15:19. > :15:23.for it. The same factor that has pushed Israel into this, the up
:15:23. > :15:28.coming elections and the Likud party's need to appear robust in
:15:28. > :15:34.the rocket attacks. That same electoral constraints would mean
:15:34. > :15:40.they wouldn't wish to commit large Israeli groups to a casualty-
:15:40. > :15:43.intensive, prolonged battle in Gaza. In Gaza, it seems, the battle is
:15:43. > :15:48.getting messy. Casualties of Israeli strike, including civilians,
:15:48. > :15:54.were brought into hospital today. The Israeli bombing over the past
:15:54. > :15:58.48 hours, again in Gaza, is turning our lives here into a nightmare.
:15:58. > :16:05.The Palestinians here in Gaza do not want to live with the memories
:16:05. > :16:10.of the last Israeli war. Though Israel's main target now is Hamas.
:16:10. > :16:13.Other militants here have also been responsible for cross-border
:16:13. > :16:18.attacks. Hamas has no interest in the firing, but it is the other
:16:18. > :16:23.Palestinian groups who are pushing Hamas towards escalation, and
:16:23. > :16:31.continuation of the cycle of violence with Israel. Hamas, which
:16:31. > :16:35.hosted the Emir recently. And received backing from Turkey
:16:35. > :16:39.diplomatically, felt increasingly confident. Hamas felt it had to
:16:40. > :16:44.respond to the killing of its main commander. It has been emboldened
:16:44. > :16:48.by new support in the region. Now it has to work out if those
:16:48. > :16:52.political friend, and the exhausted political population it rules,
:16:52. > :16:57.wants a further escalation of the conflict. Egypt, Gaza's neighbour,
:16:57. > :17:00.now ruled, like Gaza, by Islamists, will play a key role. Today it sent
:17:00. > :17:04.the Prime Minister to Gaza, in a gesture of support for Hamas, that
:17:04. > :17:09.would have been unthinkable before the Egyptian revolution. But the
:17:09. > :17:13.visit didn't stop the firing. And it's not clear how far beyond
:17:13. > :17:17.diplomatic and humanitarian help Egypt's support will go.
:17:17. > :17:21.For all its ideolgical affinity with Hamas, the new Egyptian
:17:21. > :17:25.Government also needs, partly for economic reasons, to retain the
:17:25. > :17:30.country's alliance with the west. And, to maintain the relative
:17:30. > :17:34.stability of the region. It has to work with Israel, in the Sinai
:17:34. > :17:38.Peninsula, where a collapse in security since the revolution,
:17:38. > :17:44.threatens both countries. Crucially, the Egyptian Government has lost
:17:44. > :17:47.control of the Sinai Peninsula. The Sinai, which of course abutts Gaza,
:17:47. > :17:53.is awash with arms and militant, and Israel is deeply concerned
:17:53. > :17:58.about weapons moving in from North Africa, through Sinai into Gaza.
:17:58. > :18:01.Tonight, Gaza was bracing itself for a third night of Israeli
:18:01. > :18:04.bombardment. While Israeli cities prepared for further possible
:18:04. > :18:09.rocket attacks. Both sides agree it is Egypt that is in the best
:18:09. > :18:16.position to try to mediate an end to the conflict. But for now, both
:18:16. > :18:19.seem intent on raising the stakes. George Mitchell was a US Special
:18:19. > :18:26.Envoy to the Middle East until just last year, I asked him how worried
:18:26. > :18:32.he was about a ground war? I think everyone in the region and beyond
:18:32. > :18:36.should be concerned about a continuation and an escalation of
:18:36. > :18:41.this conflict. Israel, of course, has the right to defend itself, as
:18:41. > :18:49.do all nations. And it will do so vigorously, as they demonstrated.
:18:49. > :18:54.But at the same time, this is a new and turbulent region in the wake of
:18:55. > :18:58.the Arab Spring, and you have got packically a civil war going on in
:18:58. > :19:03.Sir -- practically a civil war going on in Syria. You have a
:19:03. > :19:07.recent change in Government in Egypt, particularly difficult for
:19:07. > :19:10.the Egyptian Government with their close relationship with Hamas, and
:19:10. > :19:13.yet their obvious concern that they want to maintain the treaty with
:19:14. > :19:19.Israel, which Israel itself wants to maintain. And so, there is a
:19:19. > :19:23.real challenge for all concerned, each party is balancing political
:19:24. > :19:27.and security interests, as though a group of them were on a high wire
:19:27. > :19:33.and have to decide how far to go. I think the United States, the UK,
:19:33. > :19:38.and all of our other allies, are, and should be, actively working to
:19:38. > :19:44.persuade both parties to stand down. You have negotiated with these
:19:44. > :19:50.parties in the past. At the moment, how would you persuade them to stop
:19:50. > :19:54.fighting? Obviously it is very difficult in the heat of the moment.
:19:54. > :19:58.As we see in the Middle East and in other places, it is a lot easier to
:19:58. > :20:03.start conflicts than it is to end them. And with each passing day,
:20:03. > :20:09.and each death, and each bit of destruction, it becomes even harder,
:20:09. > :20:14.as public attitudes harden. Political leaders feel the need to
:20:15. > :20:20.continue a conflict. But I think both have to recognise that their
:20:20. > :20:24.long-term, strategic interests, may be adversely affected. If they go
:20:24. > :20:27.too far. And is it specifically more difficult now for the United
:20:27. > :20:33.States, because of the Arab Spring, because politically it might just
:20:33. > :20:38.have been easier to deal with a friendly dictator? Of course,
:20:38. > :20:43.that's true for everyone. For everyone involved, including the
:20:43. > :20:48.Israelis themselves. But, the fact is, that when we say we believe in
:20:48. > :20:54.the right of self-governance, we believe it. And we mean it. And
:20:54. > :20:58.even if it comes with the consequence of sometimes you get
:20:58. > :21:02.more difficult decisions and sometimes you get freely chosen
:21:02. > :21:08.Governments who take positions that are, at least in the immediate case,
:21:08. > :21:13.adverse to our wishes, and our interests. Given the high-wire act
:21:13. > :21:19.you see many of these countries participating in, what are your
:21:19. > :21:24.greatest and specific concerns about this conflict widening?
:21:24. > :21:28.of course, you have the added dimension of Iran. And Iran's
:21:28. > :21:36.efforts to extend its influence into the Persian Gulf region. And,
:21:36. > :21:43.of course, its publicly stated hostility to Israel. The Hamas
:21:43. > :21:46.rockets are relatively crude. They have about 8,000-10,000 of them. On
:21:46. > :21:51.the northern border, Hezbollah has many more, public estimates in
:21:51. > :21:59.Israel have ranged from 30,000- 50,000. They are some what more
:21:59. > :22:04.effective. But the most serious threat is that Iran has now made
:22:04. > :22:08.technological leap from liquid rocket fuel to solid fuel, and they
:22:08. > :22:14.can reach anywhere in Israel when launched from Iran itself. It is a
:22:14. > :22:18.complicating factor, because there has been a long historic emknitity,
:22:18. > :22:24.hostility between Persians and Arab, and there is the continuing
:22:24. > :22:27.simmering and erupting conflict between Sunni and Shia. All of
:22:27. > :22:32.these factors complicate an already complex situation, and make it very
:22:32. > :22:38.difficult to manage. I think both the gulf Arab states and Israel
:22:38. > :22:42.recognise that the principal threat to their security comes from a
:22:42. > :22:46.powerful Iran seek to rule over the region.
:22:46. > :22:49.Two years ago, here is what the Conservative election manifesto had
:22:49. > :22:52.to say about police and crime commissioners. Giving people
:22:52. > :22:56.democratic control over policing priorities is a huge step forward
:22:56. > :23:01.in the empowerment of local communities. Yesterday, people in
:23:01. > :23:04.local communities, across most of England and Wales, had the chance
:23:04. > :23:11.to feel empowered, and take democratic control over policing.
:23:11. > :23:15.How can we best illustrate the turnout? If this pen is the
:23:15. > :23:19.electorate, this men top is the proportion who wanted to feel
:23:19. > :23:23.empowered. Actually that is a little bit generous. Around 40
:23:23. > :23:27.million people had the chance to the vote. Turnout is estimated at
:23:27. > :23:35.15%. In the west Midland, Merseyside, Thames Valley and he is
:23:35. > :23:39.specks, 12% made it to the polls. - - Essex, 12% made it to the polls.
:23:39. > :23:47.In Newport, the people who voted in the 15 hours the polling station
:23:47. > :23:51.was open was serious. In Humberside, Labour's Lord Prescott lost out to
:23:51. > :23:54.a Conservative. All the results are now in. Apart from one constituency,
:23:54. > :24:01.that is Devon and Cornwall, and Conservatives have been elected to
:24:01. > :24:05.15 of the posts. Labour 13, independent 11, and the "zero
:24:05. > :24:11.tolerance" candidate in Surrey 1. Let's talk about all of this with
:24:11. > :24:18.Jessica de Grazia, former New York assistant District Attorney, and
:24:18. > :24:23.newly elected Police Commissioner for greater man chester, Tony Lloyd.
:24:23. > :24:28.Con-- Greater Manchester, Tony Lloyd. Is it embarrassing to win on
:24:28. > :24:33.a turnout of 13.93%? It is not embarrassing for me. Because I have
:24:33. > :24:38.a job to do. And I intend to do that job in the interests of the
:24:38. > :24:42.people of Greater Manchester. It would be negligent of my duty were
:24:42. > :24:46.I not to deliver on that promise. It hab embarrassing for the
:24:46. > :24:49.Government. -- it has to be embarrassing for the Government.
:24:49. > :24:53.Their level of incompetence on this is staggering, to create a new post
:24:53. > :24:57.and not explain why they have done it. To give powers that they didn't
:24:57. > :25:00.explain to the public. Presumably it is also your responsibility?
:25:00. > :25:06.tried with the Government who were determined they didn't advertise
:25:06. > :25:10.this post. A Government that wasn't allowed, that didn't let the use of
:25:10. > :25:15.the free post, that is we see on general elections in much smaller
:25:15. > :25:20.constituencies, to have a election on a very complicated balloting
:25:20. > :25:23.system, which hadn't been used before in many parts of England and
:25:23. > :25:27.Wales. It was a recipe for chaos. That is what the Government have
:25:27. > :25:30.created. Embarrassment, it should be, but it should be when David
:25:30. > :25:32.Cameron looks in the mirror in the morning. When you start to
:25:32. > :25:37.implement your measures, we will talk about that in due course,
:25:37. > :25:41.won't the people in your ar why be entitled to saying, you shouldn't
:25:41. > :25:45.be -- area be entitled to saying, you shouldn't do that, we didn't
:25:45. > :25:49.vote for him? I have been an elected politician for a third of a
:25:49. > :25:53.century. Elections give a mandate, but that mandate has to be reearned
:25:53. > :25:58.every single day, by getting out there, amongst the voters,
:25:58. > :26:01.listening to them, representing them, vocalising for them, and
:26:01. > :26:04.challenging those who don't deliver what the electorate expects. That
:26:04. > :26:07.is my job for the next three-and-a- half years. I can't sit back and
:26:07. > :26:11.say I will leave an empty chai, simply because the Government made
:26:11. > :26:14.such a -- chair, simply because the Government made such a cock-up of
:26:14. > :26:19.the process. What do you think about the democratic mandate the
:26:19. > :26:25.new commissioners have got? Well, it's not a strong mandate,
:26:25. > :26:29.obviously. It is a weak mandate. But, Tommy is right, if I was in
:26:29. > :26:32.his shoes or the shoes of any of the other newly elected police and
:26:32. > :26:38.crime commissioners, I would be saying this is my job, I have got
:26:38. > :26:42.to do the job, to the best of my ability. It's a difficult job.
:26:42. > :26:45.Prime Minister looked to New York as the template for what is
:26:46. > :26:51.happening in most of England and Wales, what do you think of how
:26:51. > :26:56.it's been played out here? actually don't think that the
:26:56. > :26:59.American system was very well understood. I think there was a
:26:59. > :27:03.superficial understanding, and this superficial understanding was
:27:03. > :27:07.transposed over here, and that's, I think, created some of the problems
:27:07. > :27:11.that police and crime commissioners are going to face. I think a major
:27:12. > :27:16.problem is that the inadequacy of the system of checks and balances.
:27:16. > :27:20.We have had a hundred years in America to mitigate some of the
:27:20. > :27:23.damage that can be done when one person is in control of such a
:27:23. > :27:26.powerful instrument of the state. There hasn't been any time over
:27:26. > :27:29.here to develop those checks and balances. What about all the
:27:29. > :27:35.politicians, these party politicians, who have been elected
:27:35. > :27:41.today, is that good for us? I think it depends upon the person. I think
:27:41. > :27:47.what's very interesting is that the electors have rejected a lot of the
:27:47. > :27:53.party politicians and they have chosen independents. They have also
:27:53. > :27:57.chosen a lot of PCCs who have a policing background. To me that's
:27:57. > :27:59.interesting, because the public recognises that the person who
:27:59. > :28:04.controls the police should understand policing. That's
:28:04. > :28:08.something that does happen in America. The elected District
:28:08. > :28:13.Attorney is a professional prosecutor who runs for office.
:28:13. > :28:16.Likewise a elected Sheriff is a professional policeman who runs for
:28:16. > :28:21.office. If people are confused about what Police Commissioners do,
:28:21. > :28:28.let me ask you a direct question. If crime fall on your watch, should
:28:28. > :28:34.you get the credit, and if it rises is it your fault? It is a bit more
:28:34. > :28:37.complicated than that. You have to give more credit to the police. We
:28:37. > :28:42.have seen crime dropping in Greater Manchester, nothing to do with me
:28:42. > :28:45.being in post. The things that help crime reduce, and the things that
:28:45. > :28:49.help crime, building strong communities, and that requires a
:28:49. > :28:52.strong police force, it requires strong partnerships. It is building
:28:52. > :28:57.those partnerships that I think is a job, yes, for the police, but
:28:57. > :29:00.transcends the police themselves, and involves many other groups, the
:29:00. > :29:05.local authorities, the communities, people in residents groups, all of
:29:05. > :29:09.those who build the kind of community base that can challenge
:29:09. > :29:11.the criminal s and crime. Are you confident you can get your
:29:12. > :29:17.electorate more interested by next time, briefly? That has to be a
:29:17. > :29:20.very real test for moo. As I said earlier on, -- for me, as I said
:29:20. > :29:23.earlier on, the way the politician operates the mandate isn't simply
:29:23. > :29:27.because of the election and says goodbye for the next three-and-a-
:29:27. > :29:31.half years be it is by validating that mandate every day by getting
:29:31. > :29:36.out there and listening to the community and vocalising what they
:29:36. > :29:40.need to have for their own parts of the conubation. Thank you very much
:29:40. > :29:46.very much. Review is next, Kirsty, what have
:29:46. > :29:54.you got? In tonight's show, life, death and religion, in Paul Thomas
:29:54. > :30:00.Anderson's film, The Master. The welcome collection, Death Makes a