20/11/2012

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:00:14. > :00:19.They are known as payway loans, gained at a matter -- payday loans

:00:19. > :00:23.gained in minutes, agony to repay. The Office of Fair Trading today

:00:23. > :00:26.puts them on warning, and sides with the customers. You have been

:00:26. > :00:30.kidnapped and you are so believing that they are helping you, but they

:00:30. > :00:33.are not, they are living off your misery and low financial status.

:00:33. > :00:37.Tonight we hear from the industry and the minister.

:00:37. > :00:41.The Israelis warn the people of Gaza to evacuate their suburbs as a

:00:41. > :00:45.ceasefire was meant to be imminent. After hours in which Egypt and

:00:45. > :00:50.Hamas said a truce would come in tonight, it manifestly didn't. So

:00:50. > :00:53.why did they talk it up in the first place? Is an apprenticeship

:00:53. > :00:58.like this one, better than a university degree? The Government

:00:58. > :01:01.wants us to forget snobbery and broaden our mind. I'm already

:01:01. > :01:06.looking at by the time I'm 25, I can probably have a nice car, a

:01:06. > :01:11.flashy house and stuff like that. Is Burma open for business? As the

:01:11. > :01:16.country attempts to reform, the Muslim minority experience a very

:01:16. > :01:18.unZen attitude from local Buddhist amongst. TRANSLATION: Around the

:01:18. > :01:21.world there are many Muslim countries, the Muslim countries

:01:21. > :01:31.should take care of them, they should go to a country with the

:01:31. > :01:35.same religion. Hello, good evening, it can take

:01:35. > :01:39.less than 20 minutes for the loan to arrive in your bank account, and

:01:39. > :01:42.it take a lifetime to pay it back. The payday loan business is one of

:01:42. > :01:45.the few growth successes in this struggling economy, for reason that

:01:45. > :01:48.is are not all together to be celebrated. Fuelled by shrinking

:01:48. > :01:53.incomes, at a time when banks are reluctant to lend, they have become

:01:53. > :01:57.the lender of last resort, often for those who have no other stream

:01:57. > :02:07.of credit. Today the Office of Fair Trading has written to all 240

:02:07. > :02:09.

:02:09. > :02:14.lenders to express concerns about how some of the sector operate.

:02:14. > :02:20.Young, struggling for money, but still having a good time. This

:02:20. > :02:23.generation is finding its own way of dealing with the downturn.

:02:23. > :02:26.My first loan I took out about a month a I used it to pay for going

:02:26. > :02:31.out and seeing my friends, without that I wouldn't be able to see them

:02:31. > :02:34.or anything. Keira is celebrating her 21st

:02:34. > :02:38.birthday, she wouldn't dream of taking out a credit card to pay the

:02:38. > :02:43.bills, the temptation would be too great. But, like many of her

:02:43. > :02:48.friends, she is more than comfortable with a new and even

:02:48. > :02:52.more expensive form of credit. go on to their website and you get

:02:52. > :02:57.two little slides, telling you how much you want to borrow and how

:02:57. > :03:01.long for. No filling out forms or meeting the bank manager, all you

:03:01. > :03:07.need is a smartphone and an internet connection. About an hour

:03:07. > :03:11.ago I took out a loan for �100, trt on it was just under �18, because I

:03:11. > :03:15.took it out for 12 days. I clicked apply, it was my bank within 20

:03:15. > :03:18.minutes. It is like another payday and you

:03:18. > :03:26.are paying it back and take another one out if you need to. As long as

:03:26. > :03:30.you are not, you know, using it for ridiculous things.

:03:30. > :03:35.The payday loan industry first grew out of the cash chequing stores of

:03:35. > :03:38.small town America, from nowhere, ten years ago, loan shops now seem

:03:38. > :03:41.to be everywhere on the British high street. And, legitimate

:03:42. > :03:46.demands for convenient credit, particularly among young consumers

:03:46. > :03:51.growing, at exactly the time when traditional lenders, like high

:03:51. > :03:54.street banks, find themselves with less and less to lend.

:03:54. > :03:58.The payday boom has been fuelled by something else as well, in much of

:03:58. > :04:02.Europe and some US states, these types of loans have now been

:04:02. > :04:06.effectively banned. In Japan the rate of interest charged by some

:04:06. > :04:11.payday lenders could get you ten years in prison. In this country,

:04:11. > :04:15.regulation is much more relaxed. A large number of competing loan

:04:15. > :04:20.sites are now operating on the Internet. Tarting a new type of

:04:20. > :04:26.cuss -- targeting a new type of customer. Internet borrows tend to

:04:26. > :04:31.be much younger, 65% under the age of 35. Most are single, two thirds

:04:31. > :04:35.don't have any children. It is a new business that is growing at a

:04:35. > :04:39.phenomenal speed. A quarter of all under 25s say they are planning to

:04:39. > :04:42.take out a payday loan in the next six months. Three-times the rate of

:04:42. > :04:48.the rest of the population. I'm very surprised at how quickly

:04:48. > :04:51.it has grown. But then, that has come on the back of banks slashing

:04:51. > :04:56.overdrafts, reducing their lending criteria to people, and the sheer

:04:56. > :05:01.fact that it is a convience of being able to go on-line via your

:05:01. > :05:06.computer on your desk, or, phone, to apply for a loan. There is one

:05:06. > :05:10.name, and one company, that's the driving force behind the on-line

:05:10. > :05:14.loan industry. Run, not out of a call centre on the edge of an

:05:14. > :05:19.industrial estate, but out of this Georgian town house on the edge of

:05:20. > :05:23.Regent's Park. This is the headquarters of what is

:05:23. > :05:28.fast becoming a household name in finance. The people in the

:05:28. > :05:31.buildings behind me work for the on-line loan site Wonga, six years

:05:31. > :05:38.ago this company didn't even exist. Now it is worth hundreds of

:05:38. > :05:42.millions of pounds. Wonga moments. We all have them. Those times you

:05:42. > :05:47.need a fast little loan. Much of that growth is thanks to

:05:47. > :05:54.some very clever marketing. The firm is spending �20 million a year

:05:54. > :05:58.on quirky daytime TV adverts, aimed at that young, tech-savvy audience.

:05:58. > :06:03.# Want my holiday to be a bit longer

:06:03. > :06:07.All that seems to be paying off, profits trebled last year to �46

:06:07. > :06:13.million. The founders of Wonga hope that one day it will be the UK's

:06:13. > :06:18.answer to Facebook or Google. The company says 90% of its customers

:06:18. > :06:21.would recommend its service, it charges at 1% interest per day are

:06:21. > :06:26.clear and responsible. Its critic, and there are many, say the whole

:06:26. > :06:36.on-line loan industry is making it far too easy to borrow money at a

:06:36. > :06:38.

:06:38. > :06:42.rate that many young customer also struggle toll pay back.

:06:42. > :06:48.This is Plymouth. Unemployment here is running well above the national

:06:48. > :06:56.average. Half of all under-25s say they have

:06:56. > :07:00.money worries, one in five has used a payday loan to make ends meet.

:07:00. > :07:06.The local Citizens Advice Bureau has just won lottery fund, to teach

:07:06. > :07:09.social tenants about the risks of payday loans. Payday loans, I'm

:07:09. > :07:17.absolutely horrified by the vast increase in them. It is an

:07:17. > :07:21.imbalance of arms, if you will. Those people are relatively

:07:21. > :07:31.inexperienced, they are weak, if you will, or innocent, and like

:07:31. > :07:32.

:07:32. > :07:35.most of us we can give way to temptation. In the last few

:07:35. > :07:41.days...27-year-old Seth is one of those customer, he borrowed last

:07:41. > :07:45.year from on-line loan firms, not from Wonga, or Inant Loans Direct,

:07:45. > :07:49.soon he found himself bombarded with other loan offers and deep in

:07:49. > :07:54.debt. Once you start doing it you are in a vicious circle. Say you

:07:54. > :07:58.borrow �100 and you pay �150 back, that is �50 less you will have the

:07:59. > :08:06.next month, you have to borrow again. That is what they rely on,

:08:06. > :08:10.the repeat business of it, you they they are doing you a favour, it is

:08:10. > :08:13.like Stockholm Syndrome, when you are kidnapped, you so believe they

:08:13. > :08:17.are helping you, but they are not. Some think the situation is so

:08:17. > :08:22.serious that the Government and the regulators need to take decisive

:08:22. > :08:25.action. I would ban them outright. They are so dangerous and toxic,

:08:25. > :08:29.and create so much detriment for the people who take them and

:08:29. > :08:35.society at large, I would do away with them. I drew the analogy with

:08:35. > :08:42.drug dealing, and I do it purposefully, we take a view as a

:08:42. > :08:46.society that actually, freedom of choice should be trammelled as far

:08:46. > :08:50.as serious Class A drugs are concerned. I don't see a great deal

:08:50. > :08:55.of difference between that situation and payday loans.

:08:55. > :09:00.Regulation in this country is unlikely to go that far. Today the

:09:00. > :09:04.OFT didn't directly criticise Wonga, or Instant Loans Direct, and it

:09:04. > :09:07.said there is a role for payday loans in the market. But the

:09:07. > :09:11.regulator is still very concerned about the practices of some lenders

:09:11. > :09:15.in the industry. In today's report, it said it

:09:15. > :09:19.doubts the extent to which some lenders check the affordability of

:09:19. > :09:22.loans. And it is concerned that borrowers may not always be given

:09:22. > :09:28.balanced information about the costs and risks involved.

:09:28. > :09:32.What we would not want to do is paint a single picture of the pay

:09:32. > :09:39.day centre in saying everybody is equally bad. Not at all, you have

:09:39. > :09:43.quite a broad spectrum of practice. As I say, from the worst, where we

:09:43. > :09:46.are taking immediate action, to other areas, where we have real

:09:46. > :09:51.concerns, but we think it appropriate to give the businesses

:09:51. > :09:56.an opportunity to put them right, but if they don't put them right,

:09:57. > :10:00.then they risk enforcement action. Back in the bar, these young

:10:00. > :10:04.consumers don't look too worried. For many, payday loans are just a

:10:04. > :10:07.quick, simple way to get hold of cash, when banks just aren't

:10:07. > :10:11.lending. Some say a crackdown could put the

:10:11. > :10:15.whole industry out of business, and push some borrowers into the arms

:10:15. > :10:19.of illegal lenders. But, given the level of concern about the industry,

:10:19. > :10:24.it is likely that at the very least, this new form of credit will soon

:10:24. > :10:28.have to carry a significant health warning.

:10:28. > :10:32.I have been speaking to Russell Hamblin-Boone, the chief executive

:10:32. > :10:36.of the Consumer Finance Association, which represents around 70% of all

:10:36. > :10:39.payday loans companies. I began by asking him whether he recognised

:10:39. > :10:46.the criticisms made by the Office of Fair Trading? I think what the

:10:46. > :10:49.report is highlighting is that there are some, a small number, of

:10:49. > :10:54.lenders acting irresponsibly. I represent those who want to be

:10:54. > :10:58.responsible lenders, they want to introduce self-regulation, on top

:10:58. > :11:01.of the consumer credit regulation that already exists. The Office of

:11:01. > :11:06.Fair Trading has written to companies across the board, looking

:11:06. > :11:09.at lenders across the sector, 240 letters, and they say that they are

:11:09. > :11:13.concerned that the loans are extended too often, that lend

:11:13. > :11:18.remembers too aggressive, that they are not checking if borrowers can

:11:18. > :11:23.afford it pay back the money, that is serious? And our own practice is

:11:23. > :11:26.that we don't extend loans beyond three-times. We do robust

:11:26. > :11:31.affordability checks to make sure we are lending to people who can

:11:31. > :11:34.afford to pay back. We are making sure people aren't getting into

:11:34. > :11:37.financial difficulty. There is no point in lending to someone...You

:11:37. > :11:42.Are saying no company who you represents falls the wrong side of

:11:42. > :11:44.any of the things that the OFT says are across the industry? Our self-

:11:44. > :11:47.regulation and Code of Practise, that comes into effect next week,

:11:47. > :11:51.makes sure that sort of thing doesn't happen, absolutely.

:11:51. > :11:56.Code of Practise, which is the fourth Code of Practise we have

:11:56. > :12:01.seen for your industry, which makes minute changes from the Code of

:12:01. > :12:03.Practise that was introduced last year, which made minute changes to

:12:03. > :12:07.the Code of Practise the year before? It is a young industry and

:12:07. > :12:12.is evolving and growing. Where we identify issues that need to be

:12:12. > :12:15.resolved, then we tackle them. This is part of the industry as it

:12:15. > :12:19.mature, we will start to become more mainstream. In these early

:12:19. > :12:22.days, of course we are going to come across areas that need to be

:12:22. > :12:27.addressed. We are absolutely committed to sorting those out.

:12:27. > :12:32.is not just areas, a Which? Survey found half of users took out loans

:12:32. > :12:36.they couldn't afford to pay. 70% of users regret taking out the loans.

:12:36. > :12:39.That is not just a corner of the industry, is it? I don't

:12:39. > :12:44.acknowledge the Which? Survey of a couple of hundred people. What we

:12:44. > :12:49.have done is surveyed our customer, 100 people, and found that 85% of

:12:49. > :12:54.them didn't have any difficulty in paying back the loan. In fact, 71%

:12:54. > :12:59.of people pay back in full on time. The other 29% extend their loans,

:12:59. > :13:03.but they can now only do that three times. You are suggesting there is

:13:03. > :13:08.no problem with your industry, the companies you represent. You can't

:13:08. > :13:11.accept that self-regulation has demonstrably failed? I didn't say

:13:11. > :13:15.that I didn't accept there were problems that needed to be resolved.

:13:15. > :13:19.What I'm saying is the larger lenders I represent are absolutely

:13:19. > :13:25.committed to solving those through self-regulation and statutory

:13:25. > :13:29.regulation, if if that is required. Why not put a cap on the amount

:13:29. > :13:32.lent, most countries have done that? And it has failed in most

:13:32. > :13:36.countries, you have reduced the availability of credit. That is not

:13:36. > :13:41.what happened in Japan. Japan introduced measures like that six

:13:41. > :13:44.years ago and they have cut down the amount of indetectedness that

:13:44. > :13:48.Japan has? Japan has a very different credit market to ours. We

:13:48. > :13:52.are a credit-based society, whether credit cards, overdrafts, personal

:13:52. > :13:55.loans, that is the way we operate. Many people have been cut out of

:13:55. > :13:59.all of those different options. There isn't another country in the

:13:59. > :14:04.west that doesn't have some kind of measures, some kind of cap in place.

:14:04. > :14:08.Are you saying we are fine, we are just a soft target, aren't we?

:14:08. > :14:11.cap is a blunt instrument, if you set the cap too high, you are not

:14:11. > :14:17.achieving anything, if you set it too low you are reducing the number,

:14:17. > :14:21.the amount of lenders there are able to provide to people reducing

:14:21. > :14:25.the level of competition. I'm going to go back to Steve, who

:14:25. > :14:31.you heard in the film, Seth, Steve says they are so dangerous I would

:14:31. > :14:35.ban them outright. So toxic, he used the analogy, with drug dealer,

:14:35. > :14:39.and he does that purposefully. Your industry is being compared to that

:14:39. > :14:42.of drug dealing? It is the very emotive issue, I absolutely

:14:42. > :14:48.understand that. We have to focus. It is emotive because people are

:14:48. > :14:53.left in dire straits, unable to pay things, getting 60 messages a day

:14:53. > :15:00.from phones, from people asking do they want to borrow more money?

:15:00. > :15:04.average salary of one using a payday loan is �17,000, that is

:15:04. > :15:09.much higher than the minimum wage. People who use payday loans

:15:09. > :15:12.understand what they are getting into it, because it is a simple and

:15:13. > :15:16.transparent project. They rely on repeat business, because you think

:15:16. > :15:21.they are doing you a favour, and you feel like you have been

:15:21. > :15:24.kidnapped. You end coming back to your kidnapper for more, that was

:15:24. > :15:30.what one man said? If you are putting a cap on the product, you

:15:30. > :15:33.are demonstrating this isn't about trying to get people into perpetual

:15:33. > :15:37.debt. We are not a credit card company. You are not putting a cap

:15:37. > :15:41.on it, you said you wouldn't? cap the amount of times to extend

:15:41. > :15:44.the loan. We don't lend to people who can't pay back. It doesn't make

:15:44. > :15:47.good business sense. There is a cost to collect the debt if you

:15:47. > :15:53.don't get it back. That have the industry spokesman.

:15:53. > :15:56.We speak to the minister in a second. We have our economic

:15:57. > :16:00.editor's take on this. Paul Mason, how significant is this to our

:16:00. > :16:03.economy? Some of the data we know about this sector, for a sector

:16:03. > :16:06.that is causing so much angst, is patchy, the OFT doesn't seem to

:16:06. > :16:10.have many of the details toened happen. What we do know, or we

:16:10. > :16:17.think we know, is it has doubled in size over the past three years of

:16:17. > :16:21.the crisis. From about �900 million to �1.8 billion. That is the payday

:16:21. > :16:25.loan sector specifically. If we put it into the context of the whole

:16:25. > :16:29.consumer lending situation. This is unsecured lending, not credit cards,

:16:29. > :16:34.mortgages, but loans. You can see at the height of the boom it peaked

:16:34. > :16:38.at around �200 billion, it fell back to �150 billion, leaving a �50

:16:38. > :16:42.billion gap, at the very least. What do we think is happening? If

:16:42. > :16:47.we extrapolate some of the OFT's figures, it is possible that about

:16:47. > :16:49.�14 billion a year of lending is coming from the whole high-cost

:16:49. > :16:53.lending sector, of which this is just part. We talk about the

:16:53. > :16:58.doorstep lenders, the shops on the high street where you can pay 300%

:16:58. > :17:02.interest for a fridge. It is beginning to fill a bit of a gap.

:17:02. > :17:05.How dangerous do you think it could be to the economy? I have to say,

:17:05. > :17:09.the first problem is, you look at that film, it is like the boom is

:17:09. > :17:14.over, but nobody wants to tell the poor. That's what it seems. Why do

:17:15. > :17:20.we know that's a problem? Because if we study what happened before

:17:20. > :17:25.the Lehman Brothers crash, sub- prime lending, the OFT keeps asking,

:17:25. > :17:28.how much demand is there for this kind of loan,? What the regulators

:17:28. > :17:33.asked in hindsight about the crash we went through, is did these

:17:33. > :17:37.lenders create their own demand. Are there, in fact, a million in

:17:37. > :17:41.2009, maybe two million now, we don't know the numbers, two million

:17:41. > :17:45.people, or is it the same million borrowing double the amount. It is

:17:45. > :17:49.still quite startling that we don't seem to know some of the answers.

:17:49. > :17:53.Thank you very much. Jo Swinson, the consumer affairs minister joins

:17:53. > :17:57.me now. One of the points that Paul is getting at there, is the grim

:17:57. > :18:02.truth that the majority of people who use these services are the

:18:02. > :18:05.hardest hit. They are hit by your Government's welfare cuts, this is

:18:05. > :18:08.essentially privatisation, if you like, of the welfare state? I think

:18:08. > :18:12.it is important just to recognise that most people who are using

:18:12. > :18:19.payday lenders are working, although not necessarily on very

:18:19. > :18:22.high income, less than the average. They are on �17,500, on average?

:18:22. > :18:25.These are people who are it is important that they are looked

:18:25. > :18:29.after. The Government has already taken action on this issue. We have

:18:29. > :18:33.a revised and improved Code of Conduct that comes into place next

:18:33. > :18:38.Monday. It is fair to say that the OFT's interim report today is

:18:38. > :18:41.pretty damning. Let's get back that-to-that point, your Chancellor

:18:41. > :18:45.has spent two-and-a-half years saying debt is the problem. The

:18:45. > :18:49.last crisis was fuelled by debt, and this is making people more

:18:49. > :18:54.indebted. This is just laying the foundations for another crisis?

:18:54. > :18:58.Payday loans can work for some people. You saw some of the people

:18:58. > :19:01.in the film where that was the case. There are concerns when a report

:19:01. > :19:06.says that the majority of the investigations of companies they

:19:06. > :19:09.looked into it, they downed practices where customers weren't

:19:09. > :19:13.treated properly that is raising alarm bells. There is circumstances

:19:13. > :19:16.where it is a week before payday and the washing machine is on the

:19:16. > :19:21.blink, and the car needs to be fixed, there is some circumstances

:19:21. > :19:25.where it is an appropriate form of credit. And it is always working

:19:25. > :19:28.for some people. Wonga, the one that most people recognise, the

:19:28. > :19:32.poster child, would you say this is a big British success story, and

:19:32. > :19:37.you would like to see more of it? don't think it is an area where we

:19:37. > :19:41.need to see particular loor more of, it plays a particular role --

:19:41. > :19:44.particularly more of. It plays a particular role in the market.

:19:44. > :19:49.business has doubled in the last few years s that a good thing?

:19:49. > :19:51.Where it is used for the purposes of short-term credit and it is

:19:51. > :19:56.helpful. The short-term credit, where it is filling the gap that

:19:56. > :20:01.the banks who aren't lending as much? That is fine? There is a

:20:01. > :20:04.variety of different customers will end up in a situation where they

:20:04. > :20:08.suddenly need access to �200, for some people that is an earnings

:20:08. > :20:12.tension to an overdraft or cred -- extension to their overdraft or

:20:12. > :20:17.credit car, and some people don't have access to those things and it

:20:17. > :20:21.provides an answer. The issues the OFT outlines are very important,

:20:21. > :20:26.the lenders shouldn't be lending to those irresponsibly to people who

:20:26. > :20:29.can't afford it pay it back and will need to role over the loan

:20:29. > :20:35.multiple times. The cuts are introduced because the households

:20:35. > :20:40.are massively in debt? The personal debt crisis has been one that

:20:41. > :20:44.happened many years ago. It is something which my colleague Vince

:20:44. > :20:48.Cable warned about and asked for previous action from the Government.

:20:48. > :20:55.These are the figures we have from the last two or three years, since

:20:55. > :20:57.the cuts have been introduce, since your Government has been banging on

:20:57. > :21:00.about austerity, and sending people to these loans because they haven't

:21:01. > :21:05.a feasible stream of income? Government is working hard to make

:21:05. > :21:09.life easier for those on low and middle incomes. We are giving more

:21:09. > :21:14.than 20 million people a significant tax cut each year and

:21:14. > :21:17.that will help. We need to make sure when people go to the lenders,

:21:17. > :21:20.because they have a general financial sustainability problem,

:21:20. > :21:23.instead of being offered a payday loan, they are advised to seek

:21:23. > :21:27.advice about their debt situation, through organisations like the

:21:27. > :21:30.Citizens Advice, the Money Advice Service, if people seek advice

:21:30. > :21:34.quickly they can get a grip of the situation. What would you do, the

:21:34. > :21:39.OFT is confronting the problem now, would you like to see a cap now,

:21:39. > :21:41.like many other countries do? issue around the cap is not clear

:21:41. > :21:45.cut. We have issued evidence on this from Bristol University, which

:21:45. > :21:48.we expect by the end of the year. There is a superficial thing where

:21:48. > :21:53.you say that is the answer. commissioned it a year-and-a-half

:21:53. > :21:56.ago, why is it taking so long to answer one question? Primary

:21:56. > :22:00.research and hundreds of pages of evidence. There is a draft report

:22:00. > :22:04.put forward, we want to make sure the analysis...What Do you

:22:04. > :22:07.understand of it now? There is analysis of a cap and a full report

:22:07. > :22:11.by the end of the year. There are issues where if you set a cap too

:22:11. > :22:15.low, you could end up with a perverse consequence that you end

:22:15. > :22:18.up pushing people into the arms of illegal lenders, nobody wants that

:22:19. > :22:22.to happen. That hasn't happened. The other point to make about the

:22:22. > :22:29.total cap on credit, is it doesn't address those other issues that we

:22:29. > :22:33.saw around affordability, and people being lent to where it

:22:33. > :22:38.shouldn't be happening. The problem is, we have four different codes of

:22:38. > :22:40.practice, you told parliament there will be a review in 2013 this is an

:22:40. > :22:44.industry exploding before our eyes, five million people looking at

:22:44. > :22:50.taking out a loan, and a third won't be able to pay it back?

:22:50. > :22:53.is a clear shot across the boughs at the industry from the OFT. I

:22:53. > :22:56.felt frustrated with the response from the industry in your interview,

:22:56. > :22:59.I don't think there is room for complacency in that industry. The

:22:59. > :23:03.OFT is taking action today. They said they are starting

:23:03. > :23:06.investigations into some of the companies who they think could have

:23:06. > :23:10.to have their credit licenses revoked. We have given additional

:23:11. > :23:12.powers in next year to suspend credit licenses. We are keen to

:23:12. > :23:16.make sure vulnerable consumers are protected.

:23:16. > :23:19.Thank you. There was much anticipation today

:23:19. > :23:23.that a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas could be realised

:23:23. > :23:26.this evening. As it is, shelling and rocket attacks between the two

:23:26. > :23:30.sides continue unabated. The appeals for a diplomatic solution

:23:30. > :23:32.are being urged in their usual way by the international community.

:23:32. > :23:36.Just before coming on air strikes the US Secretary of State, Hillary

:23:36. > :23:42.Clinton, arrived for talks in Jerusalem. President Obama asked me

:23:42. > :23:48.to come to Israel with a very clear message. America's commitment to

:23:48. > :23:52.Israel's security is rock solid, and unwaviering. That is why we --

:23:52. > :23:55.unwavering, that is why we believe it is essential to deescalate the

:23:55. > :24:00.situation in Gaza. The rocket attacks from terrorist

:24:00. > :24:04.organisations inside Gaza, on Israeli cities and towns, must end.

:24:04. > :24:08.And a broader calm restored. Hillary Clinton, in Jerusalem. Mark

:24:08. > :24:13.Urban's here now. After all the toing and froing, and one comment

:24:13. > :24:18.from one side and contradictions from the other. Why do we think it

:24:18. > :24:21.didn't happen? Indeed President Morsi from Egypt said it will

:24:21. > :24:24.happen tonight. Hamas was giving out similar signal, there were

:24:24. > :24:29.suggestions that a press conference would happen at a certain time. Who

:24:29. > :24:33.would be on the platform. It hasn't happened for a number of reasons. I

:24:33. > :24:36.think, in essence, because all that was agreed was ceasefire light, if

:24:37. > :24:41.you like, stop shooting at one another. Where as we know full well,

:24:41. > :24:46.that both sides are actually after something more substantial than

:24:46. > :24:49.that. In the case of Hamas, of an easing of the blockade of the Gaza

:24:50. > :24:52.strip, more access for their economy. From the Israeli side, of

:24:52. > :24:56.course, something that deals with more fundamental security issues,

:24:57. > :25:00.people moving in and out of the Gaza strip to the Sinai Peninsula,

:25:00. > :25:03.causing them problems there now, the supply of missiles, all these

:25:03. > :25:09.other factors. There clearly isn't agreement on those things. And the

:25:09. > :25:12.Middle East is always a place that is full of theories, but I think it

:25:12. > :25:15.is reasonable to suspect, that the flagging up of the possible truce

:25:15. > :25:19.by Egypt and Hamas, was designed to put pressure on the Israelis to

:25:19. > :25:25.agree today something they didn't Right, because at the weekend there

:25:25. > :25:29.was the threat, it seemed, of a ground war, and an incursion, has

:25:29. > :25:34.that been averted? I don't think it has. The Israelis have been

:25:34. > :25:39.threatening it, since early on in this military x a, as you say. In

:25:39. > :25:42.some -- military action. As you say. In some cases it is patently

:25:42. > :25:44.incredible, it would be so against what they are trying to achieve

:25:44. > :25:47.diplomat closed circuit everyone is warning them off, from Hillary

:25:48. > :25:55.Clinton, who has arrived tonight, the US, the EU, all sorts of people

:25:55. > :25:58.are saying don't do it. They know from the experience of 2009, that

:25:58. > :26:02.casualties among civilians and damage to infrastructure could be

:26:02. > :26:06.heavy if they went in. They risk having soldiers kidnapped, all the

:26:06. > :26:10.risks there are doing it. So much so the head of Hamas said in Cairo

:26:10. > :26:13.yesterday, he taunted the Israelis, saying he didn't really believe

:26:13. > :26:16.they were serious, and come and have a go if you think you are hard

:26:16. > :26:21.enough, more or less. They do have to make it credible. This is where

:26:21. > :26:25.I think the crisis has its own dangers and possible momentum.

:26:25. > :26:28.Today we heard about leaflets being dropped to warn citizens to move

:26:28. > :26:33.away from certain areas where the Israeli army would, we imagine,

:26:33. > :26:36.punch in to the Gaza strip. There is an attempt to make it more

:26:36. > :26:41.credible. It is only fair to say, if there isn't agreement on a

:26:41. > :26:48.broader peace package, in the next 48 hours, then it may well become

:26:48. > :26:55.an inevitability. The image of the apprentice tends

:26:55. > :26:59.to lie at two ends of the spectrum, Alan Sugar's chosen fewer, or the

:26:59. > :27:04.Dickensian blacksmith. But the Government wants us to believe that

:27:04. > :27:07.an apprenticeship is the lead to a prosperous career and a cheaper

:27:07. > :27:12.alternative to university. Will we as a country ever buy into. That

:27:12. > :27:16.The world of work, and the choices we make to get there? It is a

:27:16. > :27:19.thorny and emotive set of decisions. Difficult decisions, crystalised by

:27:19. > :27:23.a civil servant recently speaking to Newsnight. How would a Prime

:27:23. > :27:27.Minister react if their son or daughter turned around to them and

:27:27. > :27:30.said that instead of going to university, they wanted to be an

:27:30. > :27:35.apprentice. What would our Prime Minister, imaginary or otherwise

:27:35. > :27:39.say, right now, the mandarin predicts, their face would fall.

:27:39. > :27:44.Out by Heathrow, their attitude at British Airways has already changed.

:27:44. > :27:50.For the first time in this country, they are training up management

:27:50. > :27:56.apprentices. I can start planning ahead in life more now, I I'm

:27:56. > :28:00.already looking at by the Who I Am' 25 I can have a nice -- by the time

:28:00. > :28:03.I'm 25 I can have a nice car and flashy house. What do you think?

:28:03. > :28:08.is the same, with money, they will be in debt, where as we are working

:28:08. > :28:13.for our money and go what we learn. The Business Secretary, Vince Cable,

:28:13. > :28:16.thinks our chaps, have got the right idea, in a speech tomorrow he

:28:16. > :28:21.will say by the end of this parliament, he wants an

:28:21. > :28:25.apprenticeship to be as good a bet as university. Vince Cable has

:28:25. > :28:35.always already put �1.2 billion into supporting firms taking on

:28:35. > :28:48.

:28:48. > :28:53.apprentices. Tomorrow he goes Cordell, he's 18, two A-levels and

:28:53. > :28:56.a B-Tech. This is Tim, he's 19 and has three A-levels. They both have

:28:56. > :29:01.more drive than a jumbo jet, which is just as well, because though

:29:01. > :29:04.they are young, their roles see them dragooning their elders in

:29:04. > :29:07.meetings. What skills could you possibly have got from university

:29:07. > :29:12.you might be missing, there must be something, otherwise why have

:29:12. > :29:15.people been going to university for years? They get all the theory

:29:15. > :29:20.behind it, I suppose we get both, we get the theory and use what we

:29:20. > :29:25.have just learned in the working environment. I think there is sort

:29:25. > :29:29.of a thing, I know for me, in my college, it was a lot of, there was

:29:29. > :29:34.a lot of push behind universities, there wasn't this whole

:29:34. > :29:37.apprenticeship idea I did on my own, I went out and searched for it, I

:29:37. > :29:43.researched what project management was, I didn't have the backing.

:29:43. > :29:46.Down the road, quite a lot of road, to the accounting and management

:29:46. > :29:53.consultancy firm, PWC, they have been taking non-university recruits

:29:53. > :29:56.for some time. This year sees the first formal apprentice management

:29:57. > :30:03.consultant. They believe they can train a young person up in the

:30:03. > :30:08.skills that are required, as well as any university could.

:30:08. > :30:14.Cirsity has three A-levels, one of them an A*, they are older brother

:30:14. > :30:17.became an apprenticeship, and she thought it wasn't for her. I think

:30:17. > :30:23.traditionally apprenticeships are more vocational, electricity,

:30:23. > :30:27.plumbing, I didn't realise there were apprenticeships in more

:30:27. > :30:32.professional services. Especially a higher apprenticeship you can only

:30:32. > :30:36.do when you leave school. Typically an apprenticeship is for a school

:30:36. > :30:40.lever at 16, you work for an electrical company and move up.

:30:40. > :30:46.This is for school leavers who have A-levels. Why was university not

:30:46. > :30:50.attractive to you? I think the tuition fees put me off. Here in

:30:50. > :30:54.the City, the aspiration doesn't appear to be that far off. This

:30:54. > :30:58.month PWC launched the first management consultancy

:30:58. > :31:01.apprenticeship, and many of their high-flyers don't have degrees at

:31:01. > :31:04.all. But the problem is one of whether you can roll it out on a

:31:04. > :31:07.national scale. The Secretary of State for Education, Michael Gove,

:31:07. > :31:11.is known to love apprenticeship, but his fears are about the scale.

:31:11. > :31:16.The difference between him and the Business Secretary, Vince Cable, is

:31:16. > :31:20.not that the aim isn't laudible, it is whether it is plausible.

:31:20. > :31:24.The Government has struggled in the past with ensuring that all

:31:24. > :31:28.apprenticeships are of quality, and they do not exploit workers. They

:31:28. > :31:31.have introduced this, as I have said, this minimum duration of a

:31:31. > :31:35.year, which is fantastic. We have yet to see that play out. That is

:31:35. > :31:39.the most important thing, we need to see that is working. As I say,

:31:39. > :31:44.it is really important that it is real work, that we have employed

:31:44. > :31:47.people doing apprentices. I think it was a big surprise for many that

:31:47. > :31:51.some aren't employed. That is the most important thing, it is about

:31:51. > :31:57.work and training, we hope that is where we are going with this.

:31:57. > :32:00.Linford points out if measured as an apprenticeship rather than lump

:32:00. > :32:03.sum, it is set to go down 2%. Recently parliament's business

:32:03. > :32:06.Select Committee said it could not ignore the perception that quality

:32:06. > :32:10.may have been damaged, and there must not be a trade off between

:32:10. > :32:14.number, quality and brand. So back to that offspring of a

:32:14. > :32:19.future Prime Minister, will they listen to the aspiration to be laid

:32:19. > :32:21.out tomorrow by the Business Secretary, Vince Cable. The demand

:32:21. > :32:28.for apprenticeships is there already, the Government still has

:32:28. > :32:35.to work out how to meet that demand. The most difficult time in any

:32:35. > :32:39.transition is when we think success is in sight. The words of

:32:39. > :32:44.opposition lead, Gary Mackay, who has seen her fair -- Aung San Suu

:32:44. > :32:49.Kyi, who has seen her fair share of disappointments. Burma's problems

:32:49. > :32:52.as well as progress resurface, one of the biggest challenges facing

:32:52. > :33:02.the leadership, are the long held ethnic tensions between Buddhists

:33:02. > :33:05.

:33:05. > :33:10.and Muslims, which are a by-product of reform.

:33:10. > :33:15.Generations of Muslims worshiped here at the mosque. It took just a

:33:15. > :33:25.few hours to ensure they would never use it again. But at least

:33:25. > :33:26.

:33:26. > :33:32.here, there is some trace of the uprooted people. A mile away, the

:33:32. > :33:35.mosque at Nasri, all the houses around it have been levelled. The

:33:35. > :33:43.Muslim presence has been erased. Several thousand people lived here,

:33:43. > :33:48.until last June, when sectarian violence erupted. Buddhist mobs

:33:48. > :33:52.descended on the area, killing and burning. The destruction here is a

:33:52. > :33:56.direct consequence of Burma's own history. But it has a universal

:33:56. > :34:01.resonance. The kind of language that I hear people using, reminds

:34:01. > :34:05.me of things I have heard in Northern Ireland, in the Balkan, in

:34:05. > :34:10.central Africa. At its heart, the idea that for one group of people

:34:10. > :34:16.to survive the others must be driven out.

:34:16. > :34:21.The refugees from Nasri fled to the another by Muslim neighbourhood.

:34:21. > :34:25.Close Tory the city centre, it is protected by the army and police.

:34:25. > :34:34.-- closer to the city centre it is protected by army and police. It

:34:34. > :34:40.feels like a ghetto. In the mosque, refugees mix with

:34:40. > :34:47.the older population. Outside, they have begun to use the garden as a

:34:47. > :34:50.makeshift cemetery. These are the graves of people who have become

:34:50. > :34:53.sick and died in the past few months, orderly they would be taken

:34:54. > :34:58.to a cemetery, but the people here tell me they are too afraid to

:34:58. > :35:02.leave this area, fearing they would be attacked.

:35:02. > :35:07.A few moments ago a man came out of the crowd and handed me this piece

:35:07. > :35:14.of paper, it says "good afternoon Sir, please rescue us from the

:35:14. > :35:18.tyranny of our Government and Rakine, please help us", there is a

:35:18. > :35:25.sense of isolation and fear here. What would happen if you go

:35:25. > :35:31.outside? They will kill them and they will beat them, they mean the

:35:31. > :35:35.Buddhists will kill them and beat them if they go outside.

:35:35. > :35:41.refugee camps are appearing across the plains outside the city. The

:35:41. > :35:46.buddists have suffered too, but most of the 100,000-plus displaced

:35:46. > :35:50.are Muslims. Everywhere we heard testimony of violent attacks.

:35:50. > :35:54.TRANSLATION: The Rakine surrounded the village, they burned the mosque

:35:54. > :35:57.and the houses, we tried to put the flames out and they shot, my son

:35:57. > :35:59.was shot in the neck, he was brought to the hospital. As we were

:35:59. > :36:06.leaving the hospital they surrounded us, they were killing

:36:06. > :36:09.Muslims, they killed my husband. The police were just looking on.

:36:09. > :36:15.TRANSLATION: When they burned the house, my mother was inside, she

:36:15. > :36:25.was sick and I couldn't lift her. I heard the sound of shooting and ran

:36:25. > :36:29.away. My mother was burned. On the other side of the barricades,

:36:29. > :36:34.the buddists have their own narrative of victimhood. They

:36:34. > :36:43.regard the Muslims as illegal migrants, who really belong in

:36:43. > :36:46.neighbouring Bangladesh. The buddists themselves are an ethnic

:36:46. > :36:54.minority in Burma, and see themselves being trapped between

:36:54. > :37:02.Islam and the majority Burmese population to the south. We are

:37:02. > :37:11.between the Islamisations and Burmaiesations, so even our own

:37:11. > :37:16.Government, they are ignore our needs. The people you call Bengali,

:37:16. > :37:19.where should they go now, should they go back? They are Bengali,

:37:19. > :37:23.they are not from our own country, they are from Bangladesh, they

:37:24. > :37:28.should go to their own country, their nations. If somebody is born

:37:28. > :37:31.here, are they still an illegal immigrant? Their fathers and

:37:31. > :37:37.forefathers are only illegal immigrants. We can't accept them.

:37:37. > :37:40.They have to go? Yeah. In this border region, there is unDowning

:37:40. > :37:46.Streetedly been illegal migration. But there has been a sizeable

:37:46. > :37:50.Muslim presence here for centuries. Conflict between the two groups has

:37:50. > :37:55.deep historical roots, but under military rule, divisions were

:37:55. > :38:02.deepened. The state striped most of these Muslims of citizenship. It

:38:02. > :38:08.was the politics of discrimination that sowed the seeds of tragedy.

:38:08. > :38:13.Like here. In the eyes of their Buddhist neighbours the Muslims

:38:13. > :38:18.were turned into a non-people, when the regime took away their rights

:38:18. > :38:23.30 years ago. Today the Rakine pick through the ruins of a Muslim

:38:23. > :38:30.village, which was, until a few weeks ago, home to 1,000 people.

:38:30. > :38:34.Desperate poverty has exacerbated the divisions between the two.

:38:34. > :38:39.It is not as if the spiritual leaders of this devoutly Buddhist

:38:39. > :38:45.community have tried to calm the crisis. Far from it. Across the

:38:45. > :38:50.troubled areas, Buddhist Clergy have been to the fore, in demanding

:38:50. > :38:54.the exclusion of the Muslims. TRANSLATION: Around the world there

:38:54. > :38:58.are many Muslim countries, they should go there. The Muslim

:38:58. > :39:03.countries should take care of them. They should go to a country with

:39:03. > :39:10.the same religion. You don't believe that they have the right to

:39:10. > :39:14.call themselves Burmese? TRANSLATION: No, I do not.

:39:14. > :39:18.The state has belatedly deployed troops to protect the refugees, it

:39:18. > :39:21.has promised it will address the crisis over their civil right. In

:39:21. > :39:26.this overwhelmingly Buddhist country, there is little support

:39:26. > :39:28.for ending their eggs collision. Even the human rights icon, Aung

:39:28. > :39:32.San Suu Kyi, has refused to champion their cause.

:39:32. > :39:36.Last June, as the violence was unfolding here, and thousands of

:39:36. > :39:40.people were being driven from their homes, Aung San Suu Kyi was in

:39:40. > :39:44.Europe, to receive the Nobel Peace Prize, there were many of her

:39:44. > :39:48.western supporters who hoped then that she would make a forceful

:39:48. > :39:53.intervention. A strong statement, condemning the violence against the

:39:53. > :39:58.Muslim community. But it never came. She has called for respect for the

:39:58. > :40:01.rule of law, and in recent week, called the violence an

:40:01. > :40:08.international tragedy. But the most powerful statement by any public

:40:08. > :40:15.figure came this week from the President of the United States.

:40:15. > :40:20.APPLAUSE For too long the people of this

:40:20. > :40:23.state, including ethnic Rakine have faced crushing poverty and

:40:23. > :40:31.persecution. But there is no excuse for violence against innocent

:40:31. > :40:40.people. The Rojinga hold themselves, hold within themselves the same

:40:40. > :40:44.dignity as you do and I do. Obama framed the Rohinja crisis has

:40:44. > :40:47.central to Burma's future. Your country will be stronger because of

:40:47. > :40:51.many different culture, but you have to seize that opportunity,

:40:51. > :40:54.recognise that strength. Under growing international pressure,

:40:54. > :41:02.Burma's leaders, Government and opposition, talk of a political

:41:03. > :41:10.solution. This man, a key ally of Aung San Suu Kyi, listened to the

:41:10. > :41:13.President's speech. In the past he has denied the Rohinja were a

:41:13. > :41:18.Burmese group. He seems to be softening. What was the main

:41:18. > :41:22.message you got from the speech today? The most important point is

:41:22. > :41:26.the national reconciliation for our country, the different ethnic

:41:26. > :41:33.groups and religions, we need to maintain the freedom of speech or

:41:33. > :41:37.worship, so that is the most valuable things today.

:41:37. > :41:42.There is a change in rhetoric, but the hatred between the groups is so

:41:42. > :41:47.deep, any big political moves would be met with fierce resistance.

:41:47. > :41:51.Nobody here believes the crisis is over. And as Burma approaches

:41:51. > :41:55.elections in 2015, the uncertainty will only increase.

:41:55. > :42:02.It is the great irony that growing freedom on a national level is

:42:02. > :42:05.turning this state into a prison for the Rohinja.

:42:05. > :42:10.From Washington I'm joined by Priscilla Clapp, a former US

:42:10. > :42:14.diplomat who served in Rangoon, with me in the studio is Zoya Phan,

:42:14. > :42:22.from buerm had a campaign UK. We heard -- Burma Campaign UK. We

:42:22. > :42:28.heard in the report there that Obama really framed the Rojihga

:42:28. > :42:32.crisis as central to Burma's future, do you see that, is any democratic

:42:32. > :42:37.reform impossible without resolving the ethnic tensions? It won't be a

:42:37. > :42:42.stable democracy without solving the ethnic tensions. It is not just

:42:42. > :42:47.the Rohinja but all the other ethnic groups. During 50 years of

:42:47. > :42:51.military rule, a lot of these differences and problems were

:42:51. > :42:55.suppressed a. The people have never learned how -- and the people have

:42:55. > :43:00.never learned how to mitigate and mediate their differences. It is

:43:00. > :43:05.happening now, and it is happening very dramatically. We saw it in the

:43:05. > :43:08.Balkans and the caucuses, when dictatorial rule is removed from a

:43:08. > :43:13.society, very often some of these terrible problems come out. And

:43:13. > :43:18.this is what they are working through now. Do you see this as a

:43:18. > :43:22.potential Yugoslavia situation, then? I don't think there will be

:43:22. > :43:26."ethnic cleansing" and fighting on the scale that we saw in Yugoslavia,

:43:26. > :43:36.these are not armed groups. The fighting that is going on is with

:43:36. > :43:41.fire and spears and knives. The military and the police will

:43:41. > :43:44.prevent a wide scale violence of the sort that we saw in Yugoslavia.

:43:44. > :43:49.Zoya Phan, when you reflect on what your country has been through, a

:43:49. > :43:55.country you left when you were 14, and haven't really been able to

:43:55. > :43:59.revisit openly. Do you see this as a country now properly on the road

:44:00. > :44:06.to democratic, economic reform, are you confident? I'm not confident at

:44:06. > :44:11.all. Given the situations on the ground. So far the reforms that we

:44:11. > :44:17.have seen in Burma are skin deep and top down. Of course these

:44:17. > :44:21.positive reforms are welcome, and there have been some civil liberty

:44:21. > :44:26.in certain parts of Burma. But look at the situations in ethnic areas,

:44:26. > :44:30.the result is the Government troops are taking civilians and raping

:44:30. > :44:34.women, including gang rapes, and then displaysing thousands and

:44:34. > :44:39.thousands of people from their homes. Can Aung San Suu Kyi be the

:44:39. > :44:43.answer to this, there are critics who say Obama did more in one visit

:44:43. > :44:50.than she was able to do about this problem? Well, Aung San Suu Kyi is

:44:50. > :44:56.trying her best, and she is willing to take the risk and then push for

:44:56. > :45:01.further reforms within the dictatorship system. But she has a

:45:01. > :45:08.really limited capacity to do that, given human rights and humanitarian

:45:08. > :45:13.crisis in Burma. Basicically, the Government is dominated by military

:45:13. > :45:17.person -- basically, the Government is dominated by the military powers.

:45:17. > :45:21.This is clear, Priscilla Clapp, the photos of Obama and Aung San Suu

:45:21. > :45:25.Kyi, which go around the world and make everyone feel fuzzy inside,

:45:25. > :45:28.belie the reality, which is this is a country that is still run by the

:45:28. > :45:33.military. Is it a country that America is ready to do business

:45:33. > :45:38.with, do economic business with? don't agree completely with the

:45:38. > :45:45.statement you just made. The country is run by ex-military, not

:45:45. > :45:53."the" military as a force. The uniformed military is, has already

:45:53. > :45:55.taken a couple of steps back into the barracks. The people in charge

:45:56. > :46:01.are ex-generals, not sitting generals. They are trying to move

:46:01. > :46:04.to civilian governance. That is important. And Zoya Phan, when you

:46:04. > :46:09.see that now, would you like America to be in, would you like it

:46:09. > :46:13.to be a trade partner and an economic resurgence to begin?

:46:13. > :46:19.welcome the step up in diplomatic approach from the US Government.

:46:19. > :46:22.But we think that based in the experience we have in the past,

:46:22. > :46:28.diplomatic approaches alone doesn't work. Without pressure, we won't

:46:28. > :46:30.see the reforms that have been taking place so far. Because the

:46:30. > :46:34.Government knows exactly how to deal with the international

:46:34. > :46:40.community, and what they care about is trade and investment, but not

:46:40. > :46:50.about human rights and democracy. Thank you both very much indeed.

:46:50. > :46:52.

:46:52. > :46:59.As of today, the ZX Spectrum, the Atari and Betamax have gained an

:46:59. > :47:09.unexpected ally, the last typewriter came off the production

:47:09. > :47:33.

:47:33. > :47:37.line and went to the mu seem. Good evening, more heavy rain to

:47:37. > :47:41.come. The Met Office have issued an amber warning, due to the heavy

:47:41. > :47:45.rain across many southern counties, the risk of localised flooding, and

:47:45. > :47:48.the rain throughout the day, only slowly clearing eastwards. It is

:47:48. > :47:52.looking dryer and brighter, in the North West, the North West of

:47:52. > :47:57.England later on in the afternoon. It is staying cloudy, down towards

:47:57. > :48:01.the south-east corner with rain still at 3.00 pm. Better prospects

:48:01. > :48:04.throughout the afternoon, sunshine for south-west England,

:48:04. > :48:08.temperatures 10, 11 degrees, not as high as they have been so far this

:48:08. > :48:11.week. A bright finish to the day across Wales, patchy cloud here and

:48:11. > :48:15.still breezy around the coast. For Northern Ireland much of the day

:48:15. > :48:20.should be dry, fine and bright, one or two showers scattered around,

:48:20. > :48:24.highs of eight or nine. For the North West of Scotland, more cloud,

:48:24. > :48:29.increasing later on in the day. For mainland Scotland after a chilly

:48:29. > :48:33.start to the day, fine with sunny spells. Sunshine in Edinburgh and

:48:33. > :48:37.temperatures at nine degrees, down on what we had on Tuesday's value,

:48:37. > :48:41.you will notice the forecast for Thursday going down hill with heavy

:48:41. > :48:45.rain around. Throughout much of the day, London is looking cloudy and