:00:14. > :00:18.Tonight, coming to a high street near you, nothing! What do the
:00:18. > :00:22.difficulties that HMV, now in administration, the loss of Jessops,
:00:22. > :00:25.Clinton Cards, and JJB Sports, among others, tell you about the
:00:25. > :00:29.future of your town. They are calling this a day in the death of
:00:30. > :00:33.the high street, the problem is, these shoppers don't seem to have
:00:34. > :00:39.noticed. So is the gloom on the high street justified, we will
:00:39. > :00:45.debate what the future of shopping really looks like.
:00:45. > :00:50.Also tonight: We are determined to make them glisten again. David Ben-
:00:50. > :00:57.Gurion's Zionist dream of populateing the Negev desert, with
:00:57. > :01:02.Jewish settlers, turns into a fight with Bedouin Arabs. How can we
:01:02. > :01:05.expect Israeli people to deal with a big issue like creating two
:01:05. > :01:09.countries here, when they are not even sure that 20 years from today
:01:09. > :01:12.they will have a country of their own. And teachers' pay will be
:01:12. > :01:17.linked to performance, dismantling the national pay structure,
:01:17. > :01:27.according to the unions. Does it add up to a better education for
:01:27. > :01:29.
:01:29. > :01:33.our children. Good evening. You would think that all the outpouring
:01:33. > :01:36.of nostalgia for the music store, HMV, might have translated into
:01:36. > :01:38.profits, if any of the people complaining about it going into
:01:38. > :01:42.administration, actually spent much money there. Isn't that the point,
:01:42. > :01:45.we might love the variety of our high streets, and mourn when shops
:01:45. > :01:49.close, but are we going to have to get used to it. How many of us have
:01:49. > :01:54.browsed in a real store, and then bought something on-line at a
:01:54. > :01:57.discount. Do you really miss Woolworths? So, what will the slow
:01:57. > :02:04.death of household names mean for the way we shop, and the way our
:02:04. > :02:08.towns and cities look? Is the high street fined? Paul Mason has been
:02:08. > :02:13.to Brighton to take a peek into the future.
:02:13. > :02:16.Brighton, seaside Wonderland, gay capital of the universe, retail
:02:17. > :02:22.crisis, same as everywhere else. The once prestigious shopping
:02:22. > :02:27.street has the same mix of the blinging and the boarded up you see
:02:27. > :02:33.across Britain. And now, HMV threatens to become the latest
:02:33. > :02:37.retail casualty. Actually, the Brighton branch of HMV was mobbed
:02:37. > :02:41.today, by buyers, in search of bargains, and though the staff were
:02:41. > :02:46.having to turn away vouchers, there was plenty of cash flowing in. But
:02:46. > :02:50.the chain, which sells 30% of all CDs in Britain, is in
:02:50. > :02:56.administration, and the experts know why. The young people will not
:02:56. > :03:00.necessarily now buy the hard goods, as in solid CDs and DVDs, they will
:03:00. > :03:03.be downloading. And therefore, they wouldn't go into HMV, and yet they
:03:03. > :03:06.are the group to be most likely to be walking about on the high street.
:03:06. > :03:10.Where as older people have got better and better at buying things
:03:10. > :03:15.on-line. They want the physical thing, but they are less likely to
:03:15. > :03:21.be walking into an HMV. HMV haven't recognised the potential of getting
:03:21. > :03:25.older people to come into towns and go and shop in HNVs -- HMVs. It is
:03:25. > :03:28.all part of a massive change that has changed the high street. Latest
:03:28. > :03:34.figures show 14% of the shops in Britain's town centres are empty.
:03:34. > :03:38.In the first six months of last year, 20 stores closed, on average,
:03:38. > :03:42.every day. Computer game shops were amongst the hardest hit, their
:03:42. > :03:48.total number dropped from 44% from January to June. Furniture shops
:03:48. > :03:51.were down 37%, toy shops down 33%. Of course, in the hey day of the
:03:51. > :03:56.big music store, whether it was vinyl or plastic, the attraction
:03:56. > :03:59.was never in just the range of things they sold. You could come,
:03:59. > :04:02.you could stand in an aisle with a certain kind of music and see what
:04:02. > :04:07.people were wearing. You could see what people were buying. And if you
:04:07. > :04:16.were really lucky, your eyes would meet somebody else's eyes. The
:04:16. > :04:19.problem s of course, you can do all that on the Internet as well! On
:04:19. > :04:23.iTunes and Spotify you are instantly part of a community, the
:04:23. > :04:31.music you buy and listen to can affect what others buy and listen
:04:31. > :04:33.to. It is quite social, sometimes oversocial. On Amazon, you can buy
:04:33. > :04:38.almost everything, and whether it is books or films, the time between
:04:38. > :04:42.wanting and getting can be seconds. The way that people decide to buy
:04:42. > :04:48.now is massive he 0ly influenced who they are connected to on
:04:48. > :04:51.Facebook and dwit twitter. Rather than waiting for Top Of The Pops to
:04:51. > :04:56.tell you what to buy, they will see on-line what is influential, and
:04:56. > :05:00.see who is talking about that, and make a decision based on a friend,
:05:00. > :05:05.or someone they might know, increasingly people aren't trusting
:05:05. > :05:12.shops or big bodies, but people like us. That's the theory. But at
:05:12. > :05:17.HMV today, there were still some die hards for the an loing
:05:17. > :05:22.experience. What are you buying? bunch of stuff, CDs I am wanting, I
:05:22. > :05:25.felt I should do. You are in the iPod generation and the Spotify
:05:26. > :05:29.generation, why do you still need CDs? I want them because when I'm
:05:30. > :05:35.listening to something I like looking at the sleeve and it is
:05:35. > :05:39.nostalgic reasons, really. What have you got here? Echo and the
:05:39. > :05:44.Bunnymen, oasis. Is this a retro trip, they were all popular when I
:05:44. > :05:50.was at university? There is stuff from now, but it is just getting
:05:50. > :05:54.stuff that I don't already own on CD. How would you feel if the shops
:05:54. > :05:59.like this disappear? It would affect me, I have no internet or
:05:59. > :06:05.computer, I come here all the time to get CDs and DVDs, especially for
:06:05. > :06:09.my son, who likes unusual music, so, yes, I will miss it. What do you
:06:09. > :06:12.mean by "unusual" music? Not that you can get in the supermarkets.
:06:13. > :06:15.When you come with your friends, you can choose with what film you
:06:15. > :06:19.want with your friend and take it home. If you are shopping on-line
:06:20. > :06:24.you have to wait a few days, and plan ahead, off the cuff you can
:06:24. > :06:28.come and choose what film you want. In that there is a clue to the
:06:28. > :06:33.future of retail N towns with a lot of young people, you find, now, a
:06:33. > :06:40.lot of shops selling an experience rather than physical things. The
:06:40. > :06:44.tattoo shop, the unusual tobacco shop, the almost ubiquitious beauty
:06:44. > :06:49.parlour? It will be smaller retailers relying on the Internet
:06:49. > :06:53.to spread their messages, it will be bigger retailers talking about
:06:53. > :06:58.experiences and directing them to buy there. New technologies are
:06:58. > :07:01.good as killing off business model that is no longer work, but
:07:01. > :07:04.prolonged recessions are quite good at killing off business model that
:07:04. > :07:10.is should work and could work. In what's happening on Britain's high
:07:10. > :07:15.streets, there is a bit of both. a recession, particularly, markets
:07:15. > :07:20.polarise and fragment. So you get specialist retailers surviving,
:07:20. > :07:24.where generalists will tend to go, and people who are top end or
:07:25. > :07:29.bottom end, discounters or specialist retailer, the Waitrose
:07:30. > :07:34.or Aldi difference, will do well, the middles will drop out. HMV was
:07:34. > :07:41.a middle? It was a middle. everybody stuck in the middle of
:07:41. > :07:49.this retail squeeze understands, it is tough. Mike Tobin is the boss of
:07:49. > :07:55.a �2 billion data network group, teleCity, it provides some services
:07:55. > :08:03.on-line. And we have the head of Leon, head of fast food on the high
:08:03. > :08:07.street. Davi Hepworth helped launch magazines like Heat and Mojo. The
:08:07. > :08:12.nostalgia was great, but it never paid the bills. They were always
:08:12. > :08:17.going to get in trouble? When they were dealing in a market that so
:08:17. > :08:21.quickly shrunk in recent years, by illegal downloading, legitimate
:08:21. > :08:25.downloading, competition for on- line CD sellers. In a recession,
:08:25. > :08:29.when you are as extends as HMV are on the number of stores they have
:08:29. > :08:38.got. It was very difficult to see them surviving. You will miss it?
:08:38. > :08:40.used to work there, 30 years ago. And so I am that have generation,
:08:40. > :08:44.drawn to the high street with the promise of being able to hang about
:08:44. > :08:47.in book shops and record shops, which are almost like libraries and
:08:48. > :08:52.cathedrals to me. My whole generation of people just did that,
:08:52. > :08:55.in the absence of anything else to do. That's what you like doing,
:08:55. > :09:01.being near the product. I don't think my children feel the same
:09:01. > :09:05.thing at all. Apart from the fellow who wanted today buy Echo and the
:09:05. > :09:09.Bunnymen, most of us maybe won't miss it, did the Internet kill it
:09:09. > :09:12.off? That is a contributing factor, it is sad to hear news like today,
:09:12. > :09:15.families will suffer as a result of that. Ultimately we are going
:09:15. > :09:19.through a structural change of the way we live and work. The Internet
:09:20. > :09:26.traffic in Europe is doubling every year. And that's because we just
:09:26. > :09:30.are doing more things on-line. 9% of Britain's economy now is on-line.
:09:30. > :09:37.9%? That is the largest in the world, actually. By definition a
:09:37. > :09:40.large proportion of that is downloading music, videos, apps.
:09:40. > :09:45.Are they particularly susceptible, some things you can't do on the
:09:45. > :09:49.Internet, but DVDs and books you certainly can do? Can you, the user
:09:49. > :09:52.experience in the record shop is listening to music, apart from
:09:52. > :09:56.social interaction. If you look at what is happening on the high
:09:56. > :09:59.street, a lot of high street stores are replaced by quality food chains
:09:59. > :10:03.and cafes and coffee shops. People are still coming together, the
:10:03. > :10:08.social element is still there, not enough in a shop or cafe. That may
:10:08. > :10:10.be true, perhaps, however good you are, you are not the target, we are
:10:10. > :10:13.going to you because we are going somewhere else to get shopping, you
:10:13. > :10:18.will be affected as well, potentially? I think the high
:10:18. > :10:22.street is about to face a golden age. If the market is allowed to
:10:22. > :10:26.work. Three structural things, the first thing, the inner recession,
:10:26. > :10:29.in order for markets to clear prices need to come down, and
:10:30. > :10:34.assets need to reprise, the high street, because rents are fixed,
:10:34. > :10:38.and because people's debt is at such a high level, the rents aren't
:10:38. > :10:41.coming down, they are on an upward- only trajectory, and are not
:10:41. > :10:44.flexible to bring new people into the high street. Somebody will have
:10:45. > :10:48.to take a haircut in the economic system, in order for rents to be
:10:48. > :10:52.priced at where they should be. might be people like you, people
:10:52. > :10:56.who have got a store front? It will be pension funds and banks. There
:10:56. > :11:01.is a timebomb, where eventually banks are kidding themselves this
:11:01. > :11:07.real estate is worth a certain amount of money. Landlords have to
:11:07. > :11:09.reduce? Landlords and banks. Deregulate the high street so we
:11:09. > :11:17.allow small traders and market traders to populate the high street.
:11:17. > :11:21.We are a nation of shopkeepers. Apple, one of the most amazing on-
:11:21. > :11:25.line companies, chooses to have apple stores, the highest revenue
:11:25. > :11:29.in the world per square foot, something positive is happening in
:11:29. > :11:32.retail, and all the small business, people who make their own shirts,
:11:32. > :11:35.shoes, costume jewellery, let them in the high street. It is only
:11:35. > :11:40.structural things getting in the way. Where are you on this, do you
:11:40. > :11:43.see this great golden dawn, or do you see the possibility that 4,000
:11:43. > :11:48.people might lose their jobs because of HMV and all the other
:11:48. > :11:51.things we have covered? I would like to stop using the word
:11:51. > :11:57."decline", it is revolution, our lives are changing forever. We
:11:58. > :12:02.expect everything in 0.011 secretary seconds, that is what we
:12:02. > :12:06.expect, we don't write letters we e-mail or text. The consumer
:12:06. > :12:10.doesn't understand yet, it will be a centre of socialisation, cafes,
:12:10. > :12:13.great facilities, and as you have mentioned, retailers to do their
:12:13. > :12:16.jobs brilliantly I don't want retailers who do their jobs just
:12:17. > :12:19.adequately any more. You say, that but I talked to a very canny
:12:19. > :12:24.retailer who said, there is a choice if you are going to stay on
:12:24. > :12:29.the high street, you either have to provide theatre, some kind of great
:12:29. > :12:33.experience, which you have suggested, or you are really cheap.
:12:33. > :12:37.The possibility is, given we are in a recession, a lot of cheap stores,
:12:37. > :12:41.charity shops, it might be bookmakers, people obviously who
:12:41. > :12:44.can make a profit, but who don't face the problems you will? Charity
:12:44. > :12:49.shops are an exception, there are fantastic charity shops that
:12:49. > :12:53.understand retail theatre as well. Beware of the cheap price, there is
:12:53. > :12:55.a one-way street with that, that is offering value, it is hard to get
:12:55. > :12:59.straight back up again. Isn't that what people are looking for?
:12:59. > :13:03.don't think it is, people are looking to be stimulated, to enjoy
:13:03. > :13:08.shopping, to get hypnotised by it again. Perhaps you would like to be
:13:08. > :13:11.like that, is that where your pocket goes? My pocket is like
:13:11. > :13:14.everybody else, as it said in the report, it is fragmented the way
:13:14. > :13:19.you spend. You spend in loads of different ways. One thing that is
:13:19. > :13:25.important to say, this is not just about retail, this is also about
:13:25. > :13:31.businesses, and if you take the demise of HMV is an event of huge
:13:31. > :13:34.import to the record business in this country. Shops have not just
:13:34. > :13:36.been places that you bought things, but that celebrated things. They
:13:36. > :13:42.have been cathedrals to things, things that made you feel that
:13:42. > :13:47.books or records or fashion, or whatever, was important. You found
:13:47. > :13:50.stuff you didn't know about? created and built value all the
:13:50. > :13:54.time. The retail experience built value. Once that disappears on-line,
:13:54. > :13:58.it can go out of your mind, I think the thing about on-line buying is
:13:58. > :14:02.it is a really good way of buying things, and it is a really bad way
:14:02. > :14:05.of selling things. Bringing things to people's attention. That is your
:14:05. > :14:09.business there. I would hesitate to agree. There is more than just the
:14:09. > :14:12.choice of either going to a high street or going on-line that is
:14:12. > :14:17.happening here. If you think about the record industry, the topic we
:14:17. > :14:22.started with. Back 15 years ago in 1998, there were 175 million CDs
:14:22. > :14:27.bought in the UK. Last year there was 69 million bought in the UK,
:14:27. > :14:30.but 30 million downloads, that is barely half the number of the
:14:30. > :14:34.actual music sales of 15 years ago. Because the way we are actually
:14:34. > :14:38.listening is changing. We mentioned Spotify earlier on, people are
:14:38. > :14:41.sharing music, they are listening to it one time and not buying it
:14:41. > :14:44.any more. Where does the person go, either for the experience of
:14:44. > :14:48.opening the book or feeling what it look like or seeing the stuff. In
:14:48. > :14:53.other words, do you think a lot of bricks and mortar stores will be
:14:53. > :14:57.like showroom, where you don't actually take away the product, but
:14:57. > :15:00.you may order it on-line and try it out? By the time you have gone to a
:15:00. > :15:04.clothes shop, when you have tried on, there is your impulse buy, you
:15:04. > :15:08.want it there and then, you wouldn't go back and order it have
:15:08. > :15:12.it delivered later. But there is a clear distinction between those
:15:12. > :15:15.sorts of shops, where you can't actually do it on-line unless you
:15:15. > :15:20.trust implicitly in the seizing of your garment, and something that
:15:20. > :15:27.you can lisence -- seizing of your garden and something you with
:15:27. > :15:33.listen to. Shop centres are managed by managing the estate hole
:15:33. > :15:38.listically, the kaornbee Estate is managed by Shaftsbury, they own
:15:38. > :15:42.most of the properties on the estate, they managed it as an
:15:42. > :15:45.ecosystem very, very well, high street Kensington is much less well
:15:45. > :15:51.off, it is declining because you have a whole series of individuals
:15:51. > :15:54.not working together. The high street is a defined ecosystem, and
:15:54. > :15:56.co-ordination needs to be increased to manage it. People across the
:15:56. > :16:00.country, sometimes they complain that wherever you are, you get the
:16:00. > :16:04.same stores, one after another. You can almost predict where they will
:16:04. > :16:09.be. The high street itself is actually quite boring in some
:16:09. > :16:14.places? I always call it the "vanilla state", when you go to a
:16:14. > :16:20.town or city and think where am I, because it is the same. It is down
:16:20. > :16:24.to the councils. We have an amazing heritage, I go to Australia and the
:16:24. > :16:27.US a lot, they would kill for it. We have to make the towns come to
:16:28. > :16:32.light, we have to make sure the individual stores, the food and
:16:32. > :16:35.Beveridge, the socialisation, and other retails to go with it. It has
:16:35. > :16:39.to be about working hard to get consumer demand and keep consumers
:16:39. > :16:44.in store and sell to them. either of you think we could go
:16:44. > :16:49.down the American route, there are cities with fantastic individual
:16:49. > :16:53.shops, New York, and San Franciscos, there is a lot of place where is it
:16:53. > :16:57.is the same, the anchor store from a chain, and walking down the mall
:16:57. > :17:00.they are the same? We have 200 football pitches worth of out of
:17:00. > :17:04.town shopping at the moment in this country. That is a huge amount of
:17:04. > :17:07.out of town, I really hope we don't just go down that route. We have to
:17:07. > :17:10.start celebrating it, I don't think it is just about the retailer, the
:17:11. > :17:14.point you mentioned about retailers and communities working together is
:17:14. > :17:19.vital. We have to start pulling together, and stop talking about
:17:19. > :17:22.demise and finger pointing. Are we nothing talgic about it, we shop
:17:22. > :17:27.one way and think -- nostalgic about it, we shop one way and think
:17:27. > :17:36.another? I think so, if you listen in a restaurant to some music, --
:17:36. > :17:41.in a store and you can listen to music and buy it t if you can
:17:41. > :17:45.shazam it and buy it in a click, you don't worry about the price.
:17:45. > :17:49.Community is what drives the human spirit, not on-line, where is the
:17:49. > :17:54.record industry make money, through concerts, because you want peer-to-
:17:54. > :17:58.peer. Ironically the biggest growth in music revenues is not on-line,
:17:58. > :18:01.it is through physical experiences. If councils relaxed the music laws,
:18:01. > :18:06.which they have done, and allowed restaurants to play music, and
:18:06. > :18:10.where you are not allowed to dance, in Westminster two people moving
:18:10. > :18:13.rite mittically is called dancing, and -- rit mittically, and it is
:18:13. > :18:17.called dancing and tough stop. If we stopped the laws and maybe life
:18:17. > :18:23.would return to the high street. That goes back to the theatre point
:18:23. > :18:30.f you have to add something and you can't compete in price, you have to
:18:31. > :18:35.give something. You can, it is not like you have to go to Les
:18:35. > :18:40.Miserables, the apple store, Nike Town, a consumer brand on to the
:18:40. > :18:45.high street. And a steiny record shop called Bleaker Street in New
:18:45. > :18:51.York, you don't need all the expense. A balance has to be struck,
:18:51. > :18:56.the apple store works because you are not faced with a bewildering
:18:56. > :19:00.array of products, you are getting one thing. The megastore deal
:19:00. > :19:03.became very quickly overwhelming, you no longer felt warm about it,
:19:03. > :19:08.but vaguely ill. You were overchoiceed. Very briefly, what do
:19:08. > :19:13.you think the future is for the high street, is it shopping malls,
:19:13. > :19:18.on-line and a few nice niche retailers? There is an interesting
:19:18. > :19:22.thing we haven't spoken about, not the out of town malls but the
:19:22. > :19:26.Westfields, like in London, you are in a city but you have that
:19:26. > :19:31.environment around. That is true of Belfast? You have skating rinks,
:19:31. > :19:35.cinemas, you can have restaurants, bars, night life, the shops are
:19:35. > :19:38.almost the side show to the relationship building that goes on
:19:38. > :19:43.within that environment. I think that's almost like your town centre
:19:43. > :19:46.building up again. What do you think of it? I'm not sure it will
:19:46. > :19:50.happen in Wakefield and Peterborough, that is my feeling. I
:19:50. > :19:56.have no idea what will happen to the high street. I do feel that
:19:56. > :20:00.there will still be record stores and book stores, but they will be
:20:00. > :20:03.very targeted, boutiquesy, destination venues. For me it is a
:20:03. > :20:08.combination of all the channels put together and making sure the
:20:08. > :20:13.consumer gets the best choice, they are the most discerning than ever.
:20:13. > :20:18.We have to start delivering it. You will have tiny stores where you
:20:18. > :20:22.don't take it home on the day and they will deliver it to you. That
:20:22. > :20:26.sounds like internet shopping with a walk? With a touch and feel, you
:20:26. > :20:29.have to be still seduced by retail sometimes. One more place where the
:20:29. > :20:32.computer hasn't helped, this is a message to shopkeepers, just
:20:32. > :20:36.because there is a software programme where you can design your
:20:36. > :20:41.own shop front, doesn't mean to say you should. There are experts at
:20:41. > :20:45.that, that would help. We leave it there. Now, Israeli soldiers shot
:20:45. > :20:49.dead a 17-year-old Palestinian youth, near the barrier that
:20:49. > :20:53.separates West Bank towns and villages from areas occupied by
:20:53. > :21:01.Israel. It comes ahead of next week's Israeli elections, in which
:21:01. > :21:04.a new right-wing party, Jewish Home is riding high in the poll.
:21:04. > :21:07.Relations with Palestinians are only one part of the picture for
:21:07. > :21:14.many Israelis. Some think the biggest threat to the Jewish state
:21:14. > :21:16.comes from the fact that in large areas of Israel, Jews will become a
:21:16. > :21:26.minority. We report from the south of the
:21:26. > :21:32.
:21:32. > :21:36.country, a place not flourishing as the state's founders had hoped. A
:21:36. > :21:40.wilderness the Prophet Isaiah promised would one day rejoice.
:21:40. > :21:47.Nearly 5,000 square miles of emptiness, and opportunity, in one
:21:47. > :21:53.of the world's most crowded countries. The state of Israel, to
:21:53. > :21:59.exist, its first Prime Minister said, must go south to the Negev.
:21:59. > :22:09.The desert is a great challenge to us, and we are determined to make
:22:09. > :22:13.the wilderness blossom again. It can be done. It must be done.
:22:13. > :22:22.Ben-Gurion set a personal example, he moved to the desert, and
:22:22. > :22:25.practised his skills as a shepherd. Today, in his old home, a new
:22:25. > :22:29.generation of Israel's defenders is learning about his vision. The
:22:30. > :22:34.Negev, he said, was where Jewish creativity and vigour would be
:22:34. > :22:40.tested. But 60 years on, the soldiers are told, his dream of
:22:40. > :22:48.five million Jews living and working in the desert hasn't yet
:22:48. > :22:54.come true. In places the desert is blooming. It is irgated, partly by
:22:54. > :22:58.water from the Mediterranean, and partly from underground aquafirs
:22:58. > :23:02.and the Sea of Galilee. The Negev, half of Israel's territory, still
:23:02. > :23:08.has fewer than 700,000 people, less than a tenth of the country's
:23:08. > :23:14.population of nearly eight million. It is a patchwork of Jewish and
:23:14. > :23:18.Arab communities. Could bed do you win Arabs, who was wandered the
:23:18. > :23:21.Negev for generations outnumber Jews here eventually, raising a
:23:21. > :23:27.question mark over the future of land that is internationally
:23:27. > :23:29.recognised as part of Israel. Some young Zionists think that is the
:23:29. > :23:33.greatest threat Israel faces. there was an empty space where
:23:33. > :23:38.nobody lives in it, somebody else will go and say this is mine, and
:23:38. > :23:42.this will be his, because nobody is wanting the land.
:23:42. > :23:45.The Negev, and Galilee, which together comprise 80% of Israel,
:23:46. > :23:49.have the country's highest proportion of non-Jewish citizens.
:23:49. > :23:55.In Galilee, more than half the population is Arab, in the Negev,
:23:55. > :23:58.the proportion is about a quarter. But Israel says the Negev Bedouin
:23:58. > :24:05.have the highest population growth in the world, doubling their
:24:05. > :24:10.numbers every 15 years. If we don't work fast we might find ourselves
:24:10. > :24:14.in a situation that is on the verge of a catastrophe, and 80% of our
:24:15. > :24:19.land that is not disputed today. For us it is getting back to what
:24:19. > :24:23.David Ben-Gurion said, that the real example of the Israeli people
:24:23. > :24:27.will be in the Negev. Yakir Keren is walking in Ben-Gurion's
:24:27. > :24:33.footsteps, he's one of a number of growing Israelis leaving the
:24:33. > :24:37.comfort of the centre of towns and cities to recapture the pioneering
:24:37. > :24:41.spirit of the early settlers of the To feel the brick and the sand, to
:24:41. > :24:45.build your own house, to plant your own tree to pave your own path,
:24:45. > :24:51.this is something that will get connected for you to the ground.
:24:51. > :24:56.One of the values of the Zionism, it says Hebrew labour, in which we
:24:56. > :25:01.have to build, with our own hands, the land of Israel. His youth
:25:01. > :25:06.movement, Ayalim, has been building student villages in the Negev and
:25:06. > :25:09.northern Israel. They are part of a wider revival of interest in
:25:09. > :25:15.Zionism and Jewish identity, they also stress that life in the desert
:25:15. > :25:19.is cheaper and less stressful than in Israel's overcrowded cities.
:25:19. > :25:29.Ayalim, though still a voluntary organisation, is now backed by the
:25:29. > :25:32.Israeli Government. They share the aim of juddaiising the Negev and
:25:32. > :25:41.djudaising the Negev and Galilee. It is not democratic to say, if we
:25:41. > :25:47.want to secure Israel as the Jewish state we have to populate T
:25:47. > :25:52.It is the bed do you win who regard them -- Bedouin who regard
:25:52. > :25:56.themselves as the masters of the desert. Those who hadn't fled when
:25:56. > :26:02.Israel was established became citizens of the state. Ben-Gurion
:26:02. > :26:06.noting Jews had once lived in tents, said he wished nothing more than
:26:06. > :26:15.the Bedouin could gain the best thing they have, knowledge.
:26:15. > :26:19.Today, in a college on the edge of the Negev, you can find a Bedouin
:26:19. > :26:25.PHd teaching signs to a mixture of Jews and Arabs from different
:26:25. > :26:27.backgrounds, a model, you would say of co-existence. When that
:26:27. > :26:31.chemistry lecturer, Awad Abu Freih, goes back to what he still thinks
:26:31. > :26:36.of as his home, where he used today live, as well as his father and
:26:36. > :26:42.grandfather before him, it is just to survey a pile of stones. It was
:26:42. > :26:49.very big, it was not one, but three, four. Four buildings. I want it cry
:26:49. > :26:53.when I see that, I want to just remember this field. The cemetery
:26:53. > :26:58.is all that remains now of his village, which has been demolished
:26:58. > :27:03.and rebuilt over and over again in the course of a lengthy legal
:27:03. > :27:08.battle. Over the hill is Rahat, where Dr Awad Abu Freih lives, one
:27:08. > :27:11.of several towns with modern services that Israel has built,
:27:11. > :27:18.specially for Bedouin, like many others, he doesn't want to live
:27:18. > :27:23.there. The new towns have high rates of crime and unemployment.
:27:23. > :27:28.Awad Abu Freih wants to have a farm, just like David Ben-Gurion did. But
:27:28. > :27:33.he says Jews find it easier than Bedouin to acquire land for
:27:33. > :27:41.agriculture. I want to live with sheep, or agricultural life. If I
:27:41. > :27:43.was Jewish, they would give me and give me the money. But because I am
:27:43. > :27:47.This is BBC News. The headlines: HMV is in the hands of
:27:47. > :27:50.called Awad and not Moshi, because administrators. 4,000 jobs are at
:27:50. > :27:54.I have a Bedouin name, and I'm not risk. The chief executive is
:27:54. > :27:57.hopeful of a rescue. Jewish the problem here is I am
:27:57. > :28:00.Traces of horsemeat found in Bedouin. And a few Jews in a big
:28:00. > :28:02.burgers made for British and Irish supermarkets.
:28:02. > :28:04.land. To put the Jewish in the A British Airways worker wins a
:28:04. > :28:13.Negev and concentrate it in a small discrimination claim after being
:28:13. > :28:23.told not to wear at cross at work. The Home Secretary approves a cut
:28:23. > :28:36.
:28:36. > :28:41.in staff and salaries for all new Good evening. The chief executive
:28:41. > :28:42.of HMV says he is convinced there is a future for the business,
:28:42. > :28:47.land. We apologise for the lost of despite that going into
:28:47. > :28:48.administration. 4,000 jobs are at subtitles. This is a form of
:28:48. > :28:50.risk as pressure from supermarkets economic empowerment, together with
:28:50. > :28:52.and online competitors takes its parallel policies investing in
:28:52. > :28:55.toll. The high street chain has education and in healthcare, and
:28:55. > :28:59.stopped accepting gift vouchers. It other aspects of the Bedouin
:28:59. > :29:04.infrastructure, we hope, will bring was established 90 years ago. The
:29:04. > :29:06.the bed dough win into -- Bedouin first HMV store. This has been here
:29:06. > :29:08.into the mainstream. Nearly half for the best part of a century and
:29:08. > :29:11.the Negev Bedouin live in is still trading on Oxford Street
:29:11. > :29:16.unrecognised settlements. Which today. They are no longer accepting
:29:16. > :29:23.gift vouchers. They accepted the money when you buy the vouchers.
:29:23. > :29:27.That is despicable. A worthless Christmas gift. If they are still
:29:27. > :29:32.trading and people have paid good money for the vouchers, they should
:29:32. > :29:39.not be able to do that. HMV said the vouchers were sold in good
:29:39. > :29:45.faith. The boss also told me that he believes the firm can survive.
:29:45. > :29:55.I came here four months ago to drive a viable future for the team,
:29:55. > :30:09.
:30:09. > :30:13.not to shut the business down. I (we apologise for the loss of
:30:13. > :30:19.subtitles) Ayalim volunteers are trying to forge links between Jews
:30:19. > :30:24.and Arabs in the Negev. They set up this greenhouse in a Bedouin school,
:30:24. > :30:31.where they are teaching children the Rudiments of horticulture. It
:30:31. > :30:36.is a learning process for both sides. For me it is the first time
:30:36. > :30:40.I get in a Bedouin village, I live here all my life and I haven't got
:30:40. > :30:47.here. It is a great opportunity for me to get familiar with another
:30:47. > :30:51.culture that is really, really close to where I live. But other
:30:51. > :30:54.Jewish activists in the Negev are working with Bedouin in a more
:30:54. > :30:58.political way. Liberals who believe they are trying to preserve the
:30:58. > :31:04.country's original values, in the face of what many see as a drift in
:31:04. > :31:09.public opinion towards the right. This is a meeting hosted by the
:31:09. > :31:13.Negev co-cyst tense forum, which campaigns -- Negev Coexistence
:31:13. > :31:19.Forum, which campaigns for greater understanding between the citizens.
:31:19. > :31:25.Today they are trying to think of ways to help one village threatened
:31:25. > :31:31.with distinction. Activists like Ofer Dagan, who
:31:31. > :31:39.spends much of his dime in Bedouin villages, questions the whole basis
:31:39. > :31:43.of the Government's policy. To say we have to occupy the Bedouin lands
:31:43. > :31:47.to secure the Jewish state is not true. It may serve the purpose of
:31:47. > :31:52.making it a Jewish state, for sure it won't be a democratic state. The
:31:52. > :31:58.danger that is already happening, is the Bedouin society is gradually
:31:58. > :32:05.losing their faith in the authority of the state. We are starting to
:32:05. > :32:09.see a few violent incidents between Bedouin people, which are, most of
:32:09. > :32:17.the time, a very peaceful and patient people, with the
:32:17. > :32:25.authorities of the state. legacy of Ben-Gurion, who wanted a
:32:25. > :32:29.Jewish democratic state, at peace with its neighbours, is ambiguous.
:32:29. > :32:34.After paying homeage at his grave, these young soldiers will return to
:32:34. > :32:37.their duties on Israel's borders, and in the Occupied Territories.
:32:37. > :32:44.But many in Israel no longer believe that peace with the
:32:44. > :32:49.Palestinians will come soon, if ever. That's why, with elections
:32:49. > :32:54.aing next week, a bigger issue for some are the widening tensions
:32:54. > :32:57.within the country. Between liberals and a more assertive,
:32:57. > :33:02.nationalist right-wing, between secular Jews and a rapidly growing
:33:02. > :33:07.number of ultra orthodox, and enof tablely between Jewish and Arab
:33:07. > :33:11.citizens. Talking about the Palestinian issue,
:33:11. > :33:16.pushes away the bigger issues of dealing with things that are
:33:16. > :33:20.happening inside the society. Until we start dealing with what happens
:33:20. > :33:25.inside the Israeli society, including issues with Israeli Arabs,
:33:25. > :33:33.I think the chances of doing something from the outside are
:33:34. > :33:37.smaller. How can we expect Israeli people to deal with a big issue
:33:37. > :33:41.like creating two countries here, when they are not even sure that 20
:33:41. > :33:47.years from today they will have a country of their own.
:33:47. > :33:51.Government, before they think about the peace between Abbas and between
:33:51. > :33:57.the Palestinians and the West Bank, or in Gaza between Israel, they
:33:57. > :34:01.have to make a peace inside. OK, the Jewish state, we were here,
:34:01. > :34:06.what about us? What about us? Now forget the Palestinians, I don't
:34:06. > :34:16.want to think about Gaza and the West Bank, I was here, all the time.
:34:16. > :34:22.I want to stay here. 60 years after Ben-Gurion said the Negev would be
:34:22. > :34:25.a testing ground, it's wide open -- it's wide open spaces have indeed
:34:25. > :34:34.become a laboratory for agricultural and scientific
:34:34. > :34:38.creativity, they are not yet a laboratory for peace. Now, it looks
:34:38. > :34:42.as if the Government may be in for a prolonged row with teaching
:34:42. > :34:47.unions in England after the news today it will press ahead with
:34:47. > :34:52.plans to link pay to performance. The core of the plan is for annual
:34:52. > :34:55.appraisals of teaching performance to be linked to annual Sally levies,
:34:55. > :35:01.decided by each school. For most teachers annual pay rises are
:35:01. > :35:05.automatic. The unions say the plan is a move away from national pay
:35:05. > :35:12.structures and it will lower morale and make recruitment in some
:35:12. > :35:15.schools especially difficult. We will debate how it will affect
:35:15. > :35:23.children with two head teachers. First we examine what is at stake.
:35:23. > :35:32.For some time now, the rule for new teachers has been where X is
:35:32. > :35:37.equalising this year's pay, and Y is next year's pay, X is equal to
:35:38. > :35:41.1.0Xs Y, now that is changing. Pay for new teachers, like that for
:35:41. > :35:45.their experiences colleagues, will depend on their classroom
:35:45. > :35:49.performance, and in particular the views of one man or woman, the
:35:49. > :35:53.headteacher or another member of the school leadership team. That is
:35:53. > :35:58.welcomed by some teacher. Alistair Wood is only 27, he is already head
:35:58. > :36:05.of economics at a secondary school. I see myself as a practitioner
:36:05. > :36:10.developing all the time. You -- I need to improve year on year, there
:36:10. > :36:15.is no year I wouldn't hope to get better. If there was an instance
:36:15. > :36:18.where I wasn't getting better, I wouldn't expect to be rewarded, if
:36:18. > :36:24.my performance of the same, I would expect to be rewarded in a similar
:36:24. > :36:28.fashion, and not almost get rewarded for not progressing.
:36:29. > :36:35.year's review quoted a survey of teachers' pay, which showed over
:36:35. > :36:37.98% of teachers, on the main scale, that is in their first six years in
:36:37. > :36:41.the profession, receive those annual increases. 45% of teachers
:36:41. > :36:45.at the top of that main pay scale applied for the upper pay scale,
:36:45. > :36:50.and over 90% of those were successful.
:36:50. > :36:57.While we have kept the main pay bands, we have made it much simple
:36:57. > :37:02.letter to move up them, and we are also -- simpler to move up them,
:37:02. > :37:06.and allowing senior teachers to be put to the upper band if they want
:37:06. > :37:09.to remain in the classroom. There is a pay structure for those who
:37:09. > :37:13.want to teach and not part of the management structure. It is not
:37:13. > :37:17.just your capacity to teach but your capacity not to reward? It is
:37:17. > :37:20.the capacity to discriminate, and without the current problem in the
:37:20. > :37:24.system, which is all you can do is fire somebody. That can't be right.
:37:24. > :37:30.We have all been through periods in our life where we have been better
:37:30. > :37:37.or worse and needed professional support. It should be possible to
:37:37. > :37:41.manage pay across the sector, more sensitively, according to need. Lg
:37:41. > :37:46.Forget beautiful buildings, it is the quality of teaching that makes
:37:46. > :37:50.a real difference to how well children learn, does performance-
:37:50. > :37:55.related-pay improve teaching, the evidence is mixed? We know that one
:37:55. > :37:58.of the problems with performance- related-pay for teachers, or any
:37:58. > :38:02.performance measurement for teachers, is teaching to the test.
:38:02. > :38:06.Essentially you focus on what's measured, what is measured gets
:38:06. > :38:12.done, and other things get ignored. That means you want, if you are
:38:13. > :38:16.going to have performance-related- pay, a holistic measure of pupil
:38:16. > :38:20.attainment, and of pupil performance. That is going to be
:38:20. > :38:24.difficult to do, but it is not impossible to do that.
:38:24. > :38:29.Education Secretary, Michael Gove, has said these measures will allow
:38:29. > :38:34.schools to recruit better teachers. The main teaching union, the NUT,
:38:34. > :38:38.has said members will be dismayed, and it will be a blow to already
:38:38. > :38:42.lowered morale, they say performance related pay is
:38:42. > :38:46.fundamentally inappropriate for teaching. Even those who support
:38:46. > :38:52.this in principle, say changing attitudes across all schools in
:38:52. > :38:58.England and Wales, may be tricky. What are the problems? It lies
:38:58. > :39:04.mainly I think at a leadership level, it needs to be, if these
:39:04. > :39:07.responsibility and authorities - this authority is given to head
:39:07. > :39:12.teachers, teachers need to be confident the decision will be
:39:12. > :39:18.sound and fair. The implementation is complicated. You can't go from a
:39:18. > :39:23.straight chain from one system to another. It needs to be gradual.
:39:23. > :39:30.Kenney Frederick is headteacher at George Green's School on the eye of
:39:30. > :39:36.dogs, and we have the principal of Nunthorpe Academy. Obviously there
:39:36. > :39:41.are lots of great teachers, it will be astounding to many parents that
:39:41. > :39:44.98% of teachers get a rise on the main scale whether or not they are
:39:45. > :39:48.any good? It isn't like, that you have to get through your NQT year,
:39:48. > :39:52.it is a difficult year, where you are assessed constantly. If you
:39:52. > :39:56.don't pass that year you don't actually get a job. About But 98%
:39:56. > :40:00.move on to the next pay scale per year? At the moment there is up to
:40:00. > :40:06.M6, you can move year after year. And you are not talking about huge
:40:07. > :40:15.amounts of money. I have over 100 teachers, and you know, the
:40:15. > :40:19.majority. Isn't it 8% of pay every year that you get as an increase?
:40:19. > :40:22.don't know the amount, it is not a huge amount. The teacher, when you
:40:22. > :40:26.go into the classroom you are not a born teacher, you have to learn to
:40:26. > :40:30.be a teacher and experience, if you are well trained and well developed,
:40:30. > :40:33.the performance in the classroom will be much better. If it is not.
:40:33. > :40:37.The point is, the great teach remembers not the problem, what do
:40:37. > :40:42.you do about the small minority, of not so good teachers, you can get
:40:42. > :40:45.rid of them. But only 17 out of 400,000 over ten years, that
:40:45. > :40:49.doesn't work, what do you do to incentivise them, you don't pay
:40:49. > :40:52.them that much? I don't think the pay makes the difference, teachers
:40:52. > :40:55.don't come into it for the money, they go into other industries for
:40:55. > :40:59.that. You come into teaching for different reasons. If you haven't
:40:59. > :41:02.got a teacher who isn't doing very well, there is an awful lot of work
:41:02. > :41:05.that goes on. We are very accountable, every teacher and
:41:05. > :41:09.every school is accountable, everything you do is measured to
:41:09. > :41:12.every degree. You put a lot of work into people and you help them to
:41:12. > :41:15.develop, because they have to be good teachers. Let me bring in
:41:15. > :41:18.Debbie Clinton, you heard that argument and also that the teaching
:41:18. > :41:22.unions are saying, essentially, far from improving standards, there is
:41:22. > :41:26.a risk of actually damaging children's education, how do you
:41:26. > :41:31.see it? I think it is a tremendous opportunity for the profession to
:41:31. > :41:35.catch up with other professions. One of the concerns that is being
:41:35. > :41:39.voiced currently, and of also raised during the introductory item,
:41:39. > :41:44.was the worry over individual power to head teachers and principals.
:41:44. > :41:48.Pay is awarded by governing bodies and board of directors not
:41:48. > :41:53.individual head teachers, the wore a concerns that are rightly being
:41:53. > :41:58.expressed are actually founded in, I think, quite ill-informed facts.
:41:58. > :42:04.Pay awards are given, ultimately by boards of governors. What do you
:42:04. > :42:06.make of the argument, we heard it said by the NUT, that it will
:42:06. > :42:11.dismantle the national pay structure and it will be difficult
:42:11. > :42:18.for schools in deprived areas who will struing to recruit staff.
:42:18. > :42:23.These are fears -- struggle to recruit staff, these are legitimate
:42:23. > :42:26.concerns? The academy movement has been great in England, including in
:42:26. > :42:29.deprived areas, including mine in Middlesborough. The evidence is
:42:29. > :42:33.exactly the opposite. When pay freedoms are given to principal,
:42:33. > :42:38.and boards of governors, the recruitment problems they
:42:38. > :42:42.previously had are, not immediately removed, but certainly they are
:42:42. > :42:46.very much helped. Just in practice, what would you be worried about,
:42:46. > :42:51.presumably you know, and every headteacher knows who is doing well,
:42:51. > :42:54.who need help, who isn't doing so well, you would be able to make the
:42:54. > :42:58.decisions who gets more pay and who doesn't, is there something about
:42:58. > :43:03.the implementation of it that does worry? Lots of issues, who will
:43:03. > :43:05.teach the hardest to teach youngsters? I would be very worried
:43:05. > :43:09.that people would be resisting teaching youngsters with special
:43:09. > :43:12.needs, where it is harder to move them on. Youngsters who are absent
:43:12. > :43:16.a lot. Youngster who is don't have the support. How do you, for
:43:16. > :43:19.instance, if you are in a school in a nice middle-class area, where lot
:43:19. > :43:23.of your students are having one-to- one tuition at home, where the
:43:23. > :43:28.parents are paying for that, how do you know the affect, is it the
:43:28. > :43:32.teacher that's made the difference, is it the personal tutor. In a
:43:32. > :43:37.school such as mine, some of the youngsters will have one-to-one
:43:37. > :43:41.tuition. It is actually trying to prove, what's the causal affect,
:43:41. > :43:45.why has that youngster done well. We measure every teacher, every
:43:45. > :43:49.pupil, at every moment, we know where youngsters are progressing,
:43:49. > :43:53.with what teacher and so on. We work on that and we try to learn
:43:53. > :43:57.from each other. The best way to improve teaching, is by teachers
:43:57. > :44:00.collaborating together, working to the, and sharing good practice. I
:44:00. > :44:04.think that this could be a difficulty in that, at the moment,
:44:04. > :44:09.pay is transparent, and I don't want people coming to my school
:44:09. > :44:13.because I'm going to pay them more. Debbie, it could be, in other words,
:44:13. > :44:18.devisive in the staff room, is part of it, quite tricky to implement,
:44:18. > :44:22.what do you make of that? I don't agree with that. Alastair, the
:44:23. > :44:29.young teacher in the introductory article made the most valid point.
:44:29. > :44:32.Teachers have an obligation, as do school leaders, by the way, to
:44:32. > :44:36.continually develop, yes there will be years when one develops really
:44:36. > :44:40.well, and years where one is less effective at doing that. The most
:44:40. > :44:47.important point in this for us as a nation and profession, is to
:44:47. > :44:51.recognise, as the Finns and in sing support they have done, is that we
:44:51. > :44:54.need to encourage the best possible people to come into our profession,
:44:54. > :45:04.that is not currently the case, sadly. Thank you. Tomorrow
:45:04. > :45:37.
:45:37. > :45:40.That's it for tonight, I'm back tomorrow with more in the lead up
:45:40. > :45:50.to David Cameron's big speech on Europe, planned for Friday.
:45:50. > :46:14.
:46:14. > :46:20.Good night. Widespread frost tonight and patchy fog to take it
:46:20. > :46:24.into the morning. Temperature could be as low as minus 10-12. A
:46:24. > :46:27.relatively quiet day. Snow flurries in the east of Kent. We start
:46:27. > :46:32.frost-free, but there could be rain later. For much of England it will
:46:32. > :46:36.be a dry day, some fog lingering around the Thames Valley. Most
:46:37. > :46:39.having a dry day. Snow flurries limited, eastern Kent could see
:46:40. > :46:43.them throughout. A few showers running through the English Channel
:46:43. > :46:48.into south eastern parts of Devon. Rain and sleet on the coast, maybe
:46:48. > :46:53.snow on the south of Dartmoor. It is only a chance, much of south-
:46:53. > :46:58.west England to have a bright day, hazy sunshine, early morning rain
:46:58. > :47:06.in Cornwall. It stays cloudy in Northern Ireland, temperatures only
:47:06. > :47:16.hoovering around 3-4, don't be -- hovering around 3-4, don't be
:47:16. > :47:24.