:00:14. > :00:18.Tonight a major kidnap crisis facing the British, French and
:00:18. > :00:23.Algerian Governments. Islamist militants raid a BP gas plant in
:00:23. > :00:27.the Algerian desert, and take an estimated 40 people hostage.
:00:27. > :00:32.safety of those involved and their co-workers is our absolute priority,
:00:32. > :00:37.and we will work around the clock to resolve this crisis. So, is this
:00:37. > :00:40.payback for the French intervention in neighbouring Mali? Also tonight,
:00:40. > :00:45.the land of the free, and the home of the brave, tries one more time
:00:45. > :00:50.to reform gun laws. But with some school teachers already armed, is
:00:50. > :00:54.it too late to change the American love affair with the gun? What's
:00:54. > :01:00.going to happen an armed gun man that breaks into your school?
:01:00. > :01:03.will be shoot, in the best case scenario. Britain in the EU or on
:01:03. > :01:06.the edge, David Cameron again promises to bring back powers from
:01:06. > :01:10.Brussels. On Europe right now, the PM is in a whole world of pain.
:01:10. > :01:15.Nothing he says on the subject will satisfy everybody, there is a real
:01:15. > :01:20.danger he will satisfy nobody. We ask one of our closest European
:01:20. > :01:23.allies, Sweden, what they think of the Cameron strategy. The UK is
:01:23. > :01:28.part of a dynamic and growing Europe. Normally Sweden and the UK
:01:28. > :01:33.tend to have the same views on openness, competitiveness and free
:01:33. > :01:36.trade, for us it is very worrying that the British debate seems to be
:01:36. > :01:41.sliding, where you almost accidentally might be leaving the
:01:41. > :01:47.European Union. Now, if you eat lamb, beef, pork
:01:47. > :01:57.and even a slice of Bambi, why do the British say nay to eating a bit
:01:57. > :01:58.
:01:58. > :02:01.of horse. We will be tucking in later to see what we are missing.
:02:01. > :02:05.Good evening, it is every Government's nightmare, a major
:02:05. > :02:12.kidnapping in a remote location, involving Islamist extremists and
:02:12. > :02:16.British nationals. The armed raid on a BP gas FA sill ein the all
:02:16. > :02:23.gatherian desert, near Libya, could have many cause, but what is clear
:02:23. > :02:30.is British, Norwegian, Japanese lives are at stake. There one
:02:30. > :02:34.Jihadist leaders said the gates of hell would hope when French
:02:34. > :02:40.soldiers started to move into Mali. Was today's event the kind of thing
:02:40. > :02:45.he had had in mind? The scene of this crisis is a
:02:45. > :02:53.natural gasfield, one of Algeria's largest, deep in The Sahara. A
:02:53. > :02:58.field run jointly by BP, Statoil of Norway and the Algerian state oil
:02:58. > :03:03.company. According to Algerian sources the attack began at dawn,
:03:03. > :03:07.when heavily armed Islamists attacked a bus, carrying engineers
:03:07. > :03:10.going to the plant. They took a number of hostages at the plant
:03:10. > :03:13.itself later. Two foreigner, including a British national, are
:03:14. > :03:17.believed to have been killed, and there are reports that the total
:03:17. > :03:21.number being held is 41. They include Norwegians, a man from
:03:21. > :03:25.Northern Ireland, and several Americans. The Algerian army is now
:03:25. > :03:31.concerneding the plant, and negotiations with the hostage-
:03:31. > :03:34.takers are continuing. Tonight, the Foreign Secretary, William Hague,
:03:34. > :03:39.confirmed UK citizens were also being held. This does include a
:03:39. > :03:42.number of British nationals, this is, therefore, extremely dangerous.
:03:42. > :03:45.We are in close touch with the Algerian Government, the Algerian
:03:45. > :03:53.military have deployed to the area. The Prime Minister has spoken to
:03:53. > :04:00.the Prime Minister of Algeria. gasfield is in the east of Algeria,
:04:00. > :04:04.close to the sibian border, south of there is a poorly policed and
:04:04. > :04:08.vast region. A region where a number of westerners have already
:04:08. > :04:15.been taken hostage by Islamist groups. Now, those groups have
:04:15. > :04:18.gained more weapons, leftover from the war against Colonel Gaddafi in
:04:18. > :04:21.northern Libya. In northern Mali, Islamist groups have taken control
:04:21. > :04:26.of half the country. France intervened last week, when it
:04:26. > :04:31.feared those groups were moving south towards the capital, Bamako.
:04:31. > :04:35.France began by sending warplanes to bomb rebel positions in Mali. It
:04:36. > :04:40.has followed up with ground troops. One rebel group warned that France
:04:41. > :04:43.had opened the gates of hell by the action. So does today's hostage
:04:43. > :04:48.taking show what they meant? Several claims of responsibility
:04:48. > :04:53.from Islamists have been made in phone calls to a news agency in
:04:54. > :04:59.neighbouring more tainia. According to one -- Moritania, according to
:04:59. > :05:03.one group they are called The Masked Brigade, and was formed to
:05:03. > :05:10.take the interests of those countries intervening in Mali. One
:05:10. > :05:20.call said it was a group headed by a veteran Jihadi fighter, Kian
:05:20. > :05:23.
:05:23. > :05:29.Mokhtari. He was known as the -- "one-eyed", he was the predecessor
:05:29. > :05:38.to the Al-Qaeda Maghreb group. He's the leader. Apparently he has
:05:38. > :05:45.deaffected or maybe spread a little power in Somali. We know the groups
:05:45. > :05:50.in Mali, the Salafist groups, have links with the groups in Niger.
:05:50. > :05:55.There is no proof the Al-Qaeda groups are behind the attack today,
:05:55. > :06:00.many think it is, and the motivation is clear? It is a direct
:06:00. > :06:03.response to the French intervention in Mali, it is no coincidence it
:06:03. > :06:08.happened in Algeria. Algeria has long warned against an intervention
:06:08. > :06:11.in Mali, but over recent weeks it has openly supported the French
:06:11. > :06:15.intervention. It seems that it is a revenge attack against such a
:06:15. > :06:19.support. Today in Mali, civilians were
:06:19. > :06:25.fleeing the combat zone, where francais its infantry will be
:06:25. > :06:28.fighting within hours, despite the crisis in Algeria. TRANSLATION:
:06:28. > :06:32.am in constant contact with the Algerian authorities who are doing,
:06:32. > :06:36.and will do everything that is needed. We are also in contact with
:06:36. > :06:39.the heads of state and Government of the countries concerned. All
:06:39. > :06:45.this is not without a connection, as everyone will have understood,
:06:45. > :06:49.to the operation that we are undertaking. Meanwhile, the EU has
:06:49. > :06:52.said it will speed up deployment of military trainers, including
:06:53. > :06:56.summit's expects from Britain, to work with west African forces in
:06:56. > :07:01.Mali. It is a show of support for France, taken in the face of what
:07:01. > :07:05.many believe is a growing risk to western security from north and
:07:05. > :07:11.west Africa. This attack against western interests, and against
:07:11. > :07:17.western lives in particular, will have huge consequences on the whole
:07:17. > :07:21.region. The the global war on ter yo, which has focused so much on
:07:21. > :07:24.countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, is now shifting in Africa. It means
:07:24. > :07:31.that a new front in the war on terror has now opened in that part
:07:31. > :07:34.of the world. The operation in Mali is intended to reduce the terrorist
:07:34. > :07:41.threat to European interests. But as the crisis continues in Algeria,
:07:41. > :07:47.some think it will do the opposite. For some insight into what might be
:07:47. > :07:52.behind the attack, the former Foreign Office minister Lord Browne
:07:52. > :07:57.is here, as is a specialist on North Africa. Does it look pretty
:07:57. > :08:00.likely that this is Mali-linked? Very plausible. It seems too much
:08:00. > :08:05.of a coincidence, even the French President in that clip was not
:08:05. > :08:13.acknowledging there is a connection. So I think even if there is some
:08:13. > :08:17.sort of opportunistic, randson- seeking component to it, what is
:08:17. > :08:21.really driving it is an Islamic radicalisation in the region, which
:08:21. > :08:26.is provoked by the French action, which is why the French were right
:08:26. > :08:31.to go in. Justifiable to go in, in your view? It was probably the
:08:31. > :08:34.least bad of poor choices. But there was a real risk that Bamako
:08:34. > :08:42.itself would fall, that Mali as a country would fall under the
:08:42. > :08:44.control of these Islamists. So some action of this kind had to be taken.
:08:44. > :08:47.The consequences will be quite severe. What kind of group are
:08:47. > :08:50.these people, what do you think they actually want? These people,
:08:50. > :08:55.first of all, want to publicise their opposition to the French
:08:56. > :09:00.intervention in Mali. But they probably are also seeking some
:09:00. > :09:03.benefits for themselves. Possibly some money, as has been mentioned,
:09:03. > :09:09.but also recognition among their peers. They very often want to
:09:09. > :09:15.outdo each other, between the various brigades making up Al-Qaeda
:09:15. > :09:21.in the mabgreb, there is a competition dab Maghreb. The person
:09:21. > :09:24.who claims to be behind the abduction was repeatedly reported
:09:24. > :09:30.expelled from Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, he was on bad
:09:30. > :09:35.terms with the key boss. He wants to reassert his power over his men,
:09:35. > :09:42.around 200-300 people, and is in the area of The Sahara, he wants to
:09:42. > :09:47.show through this action that he's he is centre. He's an Algerian? --
:09:47. > :09:51.He's at the centre. He's Algerian? We shouldn't forget it started in
:09:51. > :09:55.the Algerian north. This is the 1990s, Islamist groups wanted to
:09:55. > :10:04.overturn the Algerian Government, they failed in doing so, they were
:10:04. > :10:08.final low expelled from the Algerian territory in -- finally
:10:08. > :10:12.expelled from the Algerian territory and they sought refuge in
:10:12. > :10:15.Mali and they are trying to double up their logistics. This will be a
:10:15. > :10:19.nightmare for the French and British Governments and other
:10:19. > :10:22.Governments, how dangerous is it? It is very dangerous, until the
:10:22. > :10:25.event today I wondered whether or not it might be more dangerous, in
:10:25. > :10:31.France particularly, I think at the level of Governments, not
:10:31. > :10:36.necessarily at peoples, but at thes of Governments in west Africa, this
:10:36. > :10:40.is broadly supported, they are as alarmed as anybody by the rising
:10:40. > :10:44.tide of radical Islam. I do believe most of the Governments of the
:10:44. > :10:48.region will rally behind the French. What this is demonstrating is the
:10:48. > :10:52.limited authority of those Governments over Islamic elements
:10:52. > :10:57.in their own society. So it will be dangerous in France, it is going to
:10:57. > :11:02.be dangerous in the region. For the French, the real worry is, how are
:11:02. > :11:07.they going to get out of it. Always these interventions are easy in,
:11:07. > :11:16.but very difficult to exit. As the French press have said, part of the
:11:16. > :11:20.critque. Particular group, are they people willing to -- in terms of
:11:20. > :11:25.this particular group, are they for the cause, or is there rifely
:11:25. > :11:28.between the groups and they want to prospur and survive as -- prosper
:11:28. > :11:32.and survive as they can? Some of the fighters are ready to die. That
:11:32. > :11:35.is what makes them such a difficult enemy to fight for the French and
:11:35. > :11:41.Mali armies, because they are really ready to give their lives,
:11:41. > :11:46.if necessary. The big bosses will try to escape. The other ones
:11:46. > :11:50.really, the infantry men, they are there to die if necessary. The
:11:50. > :11:55.leaders are extremely well trained. Some of them started their careers
:11:55. > :12:01.in Afghanistan in the 1980s, or in Lebanon, fighting the Israelis, and
:12:01. > :12:09.they fought the Algerian Government in the 1990s, during the war in
:12:09. > :12:13.Algeria, then over to The Sahara, they were made part of the Twaregs,
:12:13. > :12:20.we are touching here the crux of the relationship between the
:12:20. > :12:27.Islamists and Twaregs, who used to be moderate Muslims, who wouldn't
:12:27. > :12:30.be tempted by this type of venture and extremism, but they are more
:12:30. > :12:34.open now to the alliance with terrorist groups. In terms of the
:12:34. > :12:37.hostage situation it could go on for a long time, we had the French
:12:37. > :12:42.trying to rescue one of their people in Somalia, and it went
:12:42. > :12:46.wrong, he had been there for years? In this case it won't go on for
:12:46. > :12:50.years n the sense that the hostages, we know where they are, the
:12:50. > :12:55.Algerian army is now surrounding them. But it could go on for months.
:12:55. > :12:59.There has been another example in Algeria in the paths, where I think
:12:59. > :13:05.that is correct, it -- in the past, where I think it is correct, it did
:13:05. > :13:09.go on more months. One element to put on the table, so familiar in
:13:09. > :13:14.the intervention, is the Government on whose behalf you intervene,
:13:14. > :13:17.whether it was way back when the Americans and French went in for
:13:17. > :13:22.South Veitnam, or whether it was Afghanistan and the Karzai regime,
:13:22. > :13:26.or now with the regime in Bamako, it is a weak regime, without much
:13:26. > :13:30.legitimacy or authority. So, you're pushing on a piece of string. You
:13:30. > :13:33.are coming in militarily, but you don't have a Government ally
:13:33. > :13:35.locally able to extend its political authority, and take
:13:35. > :13:39.advantage of your military intervention.
:13:39. > :13:43.Thank you very much. After last month's mass murder of
:13:43. > :13:47.20 children and six adults at a school in Connecticut, it was
:13:47. > :13:50.inevitable that President Obama would have a go at tackling
:13:50. > :13:55.America's gun law. Equally inevitable, in a country with the
:13:55. > :13:59.highest rate of civilian gun ownership on earth, the gun lobby
:13:59. > :14:02.responded vigorously and personally. The National Rifle Association
:14:02. > :14:04.asked whether President Obama's children were more important than
:14:04. > :14:08.other American children because they have armed protection when
:14:08. > :14:12.they go to school. Today the President said he would do all he
:14:12. > :14:17.could to prevent a repeat of last month's tragedy. If there is even
:14:17. > :14:26.one thing we can do to reduce this violence, if there is even one life
:14:26. > :14:33.that can be saved then we have an obligation to try. I'm going to do
:14:33. > :14:37.my part. Alan Little is in Dallas Texas which is state where you can
:14:37. > :14:40.buy a gun if you are a teenager, but not drink until you are 21. The
:14:41. > :14:45.President says he will do his part, what do we know about the details
:14:45. > :14:49.about what he wants to do? He's proposed a series of measures,
:14:49. > :14:54.which taken together, would amount to the most sweeping restrictions
:14:54. > :14:58.on gun ownership, introduced since Bill Clinton's first term, 20 years
:14:58. > :15:02.ago. He wants, for example, to introduce universal background
:15:02. > :15:05.checks, at the moment it is possible to buy a gun in certain
:15:05. > :15:08.kind of private sales or firearms sales without proving that you are
:15:08. > :15:14.not a felon, or not qualified to buy. That you are not legally
:15:14. > :15:16.allowed to buy a gun. He wants to tighten that up. He wants a ban on
:15:16. > :15:20.military-style assault weapons. Again that was tried by Bill
:15:20. > :15:24.Clinton, there was a temporary ban, it was hugely unpopular in gun-
:15:25. > :15:29.owning America. He wants to limit magazines to a maximum of ten
:15:29. > :15:36.rounds, at the moment, typically, a magazine would hold 20 rounds. He
:15:36. > :15:40.also wants to introduce higher punishments for those who buy guns
:15:40. > :15:46.legally, in order to sell them on at a profit to criminal gangs. He
:15:46. > :15:49.said none of it is possible without congressional action, he's already
:15:49. > :15:53.calling members of Congress to line up behind the gun control ticket,
:15:53. > :15:57.without that it won't be possible. Briefly, is it a dead duck the
:15:57. > :16:04.moment he said it, because he has to have that support s he might not
:16:04. > :16:08.get it? It is almost impossible to see how he will get Republican
:16:08. > :16:12.support on the ban of new purchases of assault weapons. Also from the
:16:12. > :16:16.point of view of those of us who live in countries where gun
:16:16. > :16:20.ownership is very rare, and gun restrictions are very high, this
:16:20. > :16:24.looks pretty moderate. It leaves 300 million guns still in
:16:24. > :16:29.circulation in this country. It doesn't make illegal ownership of
:16:29. > :16:34.existing assault weapons. Even so, it is likely to meet fierce
:16:34. > :16:44.resistance from the 47% of adult Americans who currently have guns
:16:44. > :16:53.
:16:53. > :16:58.in their home. I have been finding What is it that gives the gun so
:16:58. > :17:03.powerful a hold on the American mind? Why does America persist with
:17:03. > :17:10.its belief that a largely unregulated supply of weapons is
:17:10. > :17:15.safe and sane? Why is the idea of gun control so toxic to so many?
:17:15. > :17:20.Europeans, for the most part think it perverse, baffling. But
:17:20. > :17:25.Americans are not like Europeans. They are shaped by a different
:17:25. > :17:29.experience. The gun has polarised this country. One America cries out
:17:30. > :17:35.in despair for reform and restraint, and that only pushes the other
:17:35. > :17:39.America to be more French trenchant still in the faith in guns. This is
:17:40. > :17:46.a journey through this other America, where the second amendment
:17:46. > :17:50.is almost a sacred text. Here in Chicago, there were more than 500
:17:50. > :17:54.homicides last year, more than double the number of US combat
:17:54. > :17:58.deaths in Afghanistan, in this city alone. The state of Illinois has
:17:58. > :18:04.some of the strictist gun controls in the United States. It is, for
:18:04. > :18:09.now, the only state in the union, where it is illegal to carry a
:18:09. > :18:14.concealed weapon outside the home. Get out of the city into rural
:18:14. > :18:19.Illinois, and you are a world away from the mean streets. Here they
:18:19. > :18:24.don't like that restriction on concealed carry at all. You are the
:18:24. > :18:34.reason we still have guns like this and we don't have to register or
:18:34. > :18:37.turn them into the state police. Guns Save Life, is a group for gun
:18:37. > :18:40.rights. They are united in the belief that gun ownership make them
:18:40. > :18:46.safer. This month they have cause for celebration. A federal appeals
:18:46. > :18:52.court has overturned the Illinois ban on concealed carry. I have
:18:52. > :18:56.rifles, shotguns, handguns, I'm also a certificated firearms
:18:56. > :19:01.instructor for shotgun and rifle, I have used that in our Boy Scout
:19:01. > :19:07.training programmes, and in today's world that right to protect
:19:07. > :19:12.onesself is still very important to our culture as a whole. If you look
:19:12. > :19:18.in our cities here, your violent crime, your gun crime is much worse,
:19:18. > :19:21.but they have the strictist gun laws, people aren't -- strictest
:19:21. > :19:25.gun laws, people aren't allowed to own firearms, it is illegal in the
:19:25. > :19:29.city. You go to the rural areas where people have firearms, they
:19:29. > :19:34.have the right to use them and they know how to use them, crime is very,
:19:34. > :19:39.very low. Especially violent crime and especially murders.
:19:40. > :19:44.Today they are learning how to build their own gun at home. It is
:19:44. > :19:47.an AR-15, one of the most common, publicly available, Assault Rifles
:19:47. > :19:53.in America. More than two million of them have been sold in the last
:19:53. > :19:57.ten years. The AR-15 was useded in both the Newtown shootings last
:19:57. > :20:02.month, and in the Colorado movie theatre shootings last July. If I
:20:02. > :20:04.can do it, anybody here can do it, I assure you. I have chosen to
:20:04. > :20:11.teach my son and my wife about firearms and firearm safety,
:20:11. > :20:16.because they are going to need that skill in life. The world can be a
:20:16. > :20:19.very dangerous place. If there is a 5% chance that there is going to be
:20:19. > :20:29.a gun incident used against you, I want my family to be prepared for
:20:29. > :20:38.
:20:38. > :20:44.that 5%. If it is a 2%, I want them to be prepared for 2%. But it is
:20:44. > :20:50.about far more than self-defence. From the priories of Illinois in
:20:50. > :20:54.the Midwest, to the endless parched plains of Texas, owning a gun is an
:20:54. > :21:03.expression of a certain idea of what it is to be an American. The
:21:03. > :21:06.idea of an empowered citizenry, self-reliant, independent, free. We
:21:06. > :21:10.Europeans forget how prominently the idea of the frontier features
:21:10. > :21:12.in the American imagination, the role it has played in shaping the
:21:12. > :21:16.American character. There is nothing comparable in the European
:21:16. > :21:21.experience. The pioneers who pushed west from the eastern sea board,
:21:21. > :21:25.not that long ago, and tamed all of this, not only built a new nation,
:21:25. > :21:30.they also forged a radically different kind of citizenship. They
:21:30. > :21:34.did it in a sense with a copy of the US constitution and the Bill of
:21:34. > :21:37.Rights in the one hand, and a rifle in the other. You don't have to be
:21:37. > :21:41.a gun fanatic to see there is an enduring and intimate connection
:21:41. > :21:45.between the right to bear arms and the liberty of the individual, as
:21:45. > :21:49.many Americans conceive it. This is not so in Europe, think of all
:21:49. > :21:53.those British pubs called The King's Arms, that is a mark of how
:21:53. > :21:58.we think about guns, that they belong properly to the king, the
:21:58. > :22:04.state or nobody else. That idea, that the state should hold a
:22:04. > :22:08.monopoly on armed force is profoundly unAmerican.
:22:08. > :22:12.Whenever the prospect of gun control is back in the news,
:22:12. > :22:17.Americans flock to the gun stores to stock up. Sales rise
:22:17. > :22:22.dramatically, as gun owners seek to pre-empt a possible ban. Gun shops
:22:22. > :22:26.are everywhere. There are four- times as many gun retailers as
:22:26. > :22:30.there are McDone's restaurants. This is the biggest of the kind in
:22:30. > :22:34.the country. These guns are all ready to go on the Internet. We do
:22:34. > :22:40.a big internet business, these are both antique and modern guns.
:22:40. > :22:43.of these historic pieces date back to the 17th century. They contain a
:22:43. > :22:48.striking narrative, the story of how American history has been
:22:48. > :22:56.shaped by the gun. The American Republic owes its very existence to
:22:56. > :23:00.a revolt in 1776, by armed citizens. They called them Minute Men, they
:23:01. > :23:05.were people who were individual volunteers who had their own
:23:05. > :23:09.personal shotguns or rifles used for hunting and so forth, much like
:23:09. > :23:13.this Kentucky rifle here, this would have been an example of one
:23:13. > :23:19.of those guns. The Kentucky rifles played an important part in that.
:23:19. > :23:22.You had individual militias and so forth, formed for the purpose of
:23:22. > :23:26.protecting themselves against Indians and so forth, as it turns
:23:26. > :23:30.out, in the ousting of the British from the United States, they had to
:23:30. > :23:36.arm themselves. Without this fact of an armed citizenry, America
:23:36. > :23:40.wouldn't have won its incompetence? Absolutely not. I don't think King
:23:40. > :23:44.George would have been happy to say, take it away. In Europe we seem to
:23:44. > :23:48.have accepted the idea that only the state, only the authorities
:23:48. > :23:52.should legitimately use violence? My response to that would be people
:23:52. > :23:56.in Europe have been kow towed to the point, over a period of years,
:23:56. > :23:59.that they don't know that they are missing all of these rights that we
:23:59. > :24:02.have over here. We have had that right for so long, it has become
:24:02. > :24:06.ingrained in the American spirit and the American culture, if you
:24:06. > :24:10.want to say that. And it's not something that's easily changed.
:24:10. > :24:17.you think we are less free than you? I think you are, I think the
:24:17. > :24:21.Europeans are very much less free than we are.
:24:21. > :24:25.That fusion of guns and freedom makes gun control politically
:24:25. > :24:31.explosive. For it turns any restriction on gun ownership into
:24:32. > :24:35.an attack on liberty theself. An attack on the founding ideal of the
:24:35. > :24:45.American Republic. It is an equation that turns the state into
:24:45. > :24:51.
:24:51. > :24:55.the enemy of the people. Has hare rorld, northern Texas, population
:24:55. > :24:59.is 80. Children from throughout the counties come here. After a series
:24:59. > :25:05.of shootings elsewhere in America, the education authority here felt
:25:05. > :25:10.compelled to take matters into their own hand. They decided that
:25:10. > :25:15.some of the school teachers should carry concealed weapons in the
:25:15. > :25:18.classroom. No-one knows which teachers are armed or how many, and
:25:18. > :25:25.no-one asks. Do you feel safer now? Absolutely.
:25:25. > :25:30.I have two of my own children here, still in school. It making me feel
:25:30. > :25:34.better, if I ever have to be gone for business or for, or away from
:25:34. > :25:38.the school building, that they are protected. What will happen to an
:25:38. > :25:43.armed gun man that breaks into the school? They will be shot,
:25:43. > :25:48.hopefully, best case scenario. That's the best thing we can hope
:25:48. > :25:53.for. This America views gun control with profound suspicion, even fear.
:25:53. > :25:57.It is an America where there is much dark talk of Barack Obama, and
:25:57. > :26:03.the emerging tyranny of liberal values. In this America, the right
:26:03. > :26:07.to bear arms is the last defence of the people against an overbearing
:26:07. > :26:10.and oppressive state. If you hear the rhetoric coming from the White
:26:10. > :26:14.House, they are talking about mob rule, they love petition, they love
:26:14. > :26:18.a lot of people signing petition, it shows them that the majority
:26:18. > :26:22.want this. He even talks about the mandate he has. He has a mandate
:26:22. > :26:25.from the people to basically do whatever he wants to do. No he
:26:25. > :26:29.doesn't, he has a mandate to be elected as President, not to
:26:29. > :26:33.rewrite the constitution. You are genuinely frightened of the
:26:33. > :26:43.Government, and the dangers implicit for that? Big Government
:26:43. > :26:43.
:26:43. > :26:48.is responsible for many of the horrors of history. 100 million
:26:48. > :26:53.Americans have guns at home, 47% of the adult population. How do you
:26:53. > :27:02.eradicate the danger of that when, in the mind of so many, guns are
:27:02. > :27:07.synonymous with the basic freedoms on which America is founded. In
:27:07. > :27:13.case you are hearing strange noises in the studio tonight, that is the
:27:13. > :27:17.excellent chef, Henry Harris, of the restaurant Racine, preparing
:27:17. > :27:21.horse meat from us for later. Something that differentiates us
:27:21. > :27:23.from the friends over the channel. This is another. Two days ahead
:27:23. > :27:27.from his supposed big speech on Europe, David Cameron set out today
:27:27. > :27:31.what could be part of the Conservative battle plan at the
:27:31. > :27:37.next election, he said voters will be able to choose between taking
:27:37. > :27:40.powers back through the Tories, or Labour handing over powers to
:27:40. > :27:44.Brussels. Ed Miliband taunted the Prime Minister that he was losing
:27:44. > :27:47.control of the Conservative Party. In a moment we will hear how it is
:27:47. > :27:51.seen from one of Britain's strongest allies in Europe, Sweden.
:27:51. > :27:54.First, when a Conservative group called Fresh Start demanded a
:27:54. > :27:59.significant repatriation of powers from Brussels, we assess the
:27:59. > :28:02.politics and the dangers which lie ahead.
:28:02. > :28:06.Being Prime Minister means you are never short of advice, pushing you
:28:06. > :28:11.and pulling you in different directions. And, with Mr Cameron's
:28:11. > :28:14.big speech coming up on Friday on Europe, that is what's on
:28:14. > :28:19.everyone's minds. His backbenchers, the other party leaders, and, of
:28:19. > :28:23.course, other countries. They want to know details, what is Mr
:28:23. > :28:26.Cameron's vision for Europe, and how does he propose to achieve it T
:28:26. > :28:33.the problem is, nothing he says will satisfy everybody, and there
:28:33. > :28:37.is a real danger he might not satisfy anyone! Not surprisingly,
:28:37. > :28:41.the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, in the Commons today, of not keen to
:28:41. > :28:46.help Mr Cameron out. At a time when there are one million young people
:28:46. > :28:51.out of work, and we have businesses going to the wall, what is he doing,
:28:51. > :28:54.he spent six months to create a speech to bring five years of
:28:54. > :28:58.uncertainty for Britain. When it comes to Europe, it is the same old
:28:58. > :29:02.Tories, a divided party, and a weak Prime Minister. What we see from
:29:02. > :29:05.his position, he wants absolutely no change in the relationship
:29:05. > :29:11.between Britain and Europe, and he doesn't believe the British people
:29:11. > :29:15.should be given a choice! What do Mr Cameron's backbenchers want to
:29:15. > :29:19.hear? There is a range of opinion. Some want the UK to have a
:29:19. > :29:22.referendum before any negotiations begin? I think the referendum needs
:29:22. > :29:25.to be held this parliament to get the British people to buy into the
:29:25. > :29:28.idea that we need to negotiate a new relationship. I think that is
:29:28. > :29:33.the true of the British people. We need to demonstrate it is, so that
:29:33. > :29:36.when our Prime Minister goes to Brussels, it is not just the leader
:29:36. > :29:40.of the biggest minority party in the House of Commons saying this,
:29:40. > :29:44.it is the national leader, who has maybe 80% of the British people
:29:44. > :29:48.voting in a referendum to say, yes, we want that new relationship, yes
:29:48. > :29:53.it must be based on trade, and no it shouldn't be common Government
:29:53. > :29:56.of the kind emerging in Euroland. Mr Cameron is clear that any
:29:56. > :30:00.referendum would not come until after negotiations. He's not clear
:30:00. > :30:04.what a "no" vote in that referendum would mean. Does it mean we leave
:30:04. > :30:08.the EU automatically, some of his backbenchers think that keeping
:30:08. > :30:13.that unclear is not credible. have suggested to the PM two things,
:30:13. > :30:17.very briefly, one, whatever commitment he gives, and I
:30:17. > :30:21.personally, we hope the commitment has to be believable, that is why
:30:21. > :30:24.we have suggested legislation in the parliament, secondly, a
:30:24. > :30:27.referendum, we would hope, would have to be credible, and have an
:30:27. > :30:32.out option on it. Whatever the in option is after renegotiation.
:30:32. > :30:36.Today, Mr Cameron got another set of ideas from a group of
:30:36. > :30:44.Conservative MPs called Fresh Start. The pref fis to their document
:30:44. > :30:49.written by the preface of their document is written by the Foreign
:30:49. > :30:52.Secretary. They don't want Mr Cameron to start making threats to
:30:52. > :30:58.the EU. Genuinely what people want to see, and colleagues in
:30:58. > :31:05.parliament want to see, is a real effort to renegotiate a better deal
:31:05. > :31:09.for Britain. So that we don't want to want to wall -- fall out with
:31:09. > :31:13.the rest of the EU or stand alone among 27 states, we want a better
:31:13. > :31:18.deal for Britain, that works for the EU, and give them what they
:31:18. > :31:22.want to see, which is greater fiscal union for European countries.
:31:22. > :31:25.To see how poisonous the politics are for David Cameron, let's skip
:31:25. > :31:29.forward to the end of the negotiations with European partners.
:31:29. > :31:33.Assuming they are successful and Mr Cameron gets a deal, he comes back
:31:34. > :31:38.and gets a referendum. He's oblige, of course, to campaign for a "yes"
:31:38. > :31:42.vote, what does his party do? Some euro-sceptics are likely to be
:31:42. > :31:47.unsatisfied, they will push for a "no" vote, and there are those who
:31:47. > :31:54.want out of the EU all together, and they will campaign for a "no"
:31:54. > :31:57.vote, what Mr Cameron will do is have a Europe referendum where he
:31:57. > :32:01.has engineered his party to be split, and the unofficial
:32:01. > :32:04.Conservative position is the polls are right on the wrong side of
:32:04. > :32:09.public opinion. One of the things the public are most concerned with,
:32:09. > :32:13.indeed, one of the reasons behind the rise of UKIP is EU migration,
:32:13. > :32:19.that is unlikely to be touched on in any of the future negotiations.
:32:19. > :32:24.You can do some things to that, to, for example, make it harder for EU
:32:24. > :32:28.migrants to come here and claim benefits. But to strike down on the
:32:28. > :32:31.entire area would be a fundamental rewriting of the treaties, this is
:32:31. > :32:36.one of the founding principles of the EU. I don't think the Tories
:32:36. > :32:41.can and should go there, but they can try to manage it a bit better.
:32:41. > :32:46.Mr Cameron's big speech in the mether lands on Friday, has even
:32:46. > :32:52.come to the attention of Taiwan's animators, you don't need to speak
:32:52. > :32:56.the language to work out how difficult they think his position
:32:56. > :32:59.is. Sweden, like Britain, is in the European Union, but outside the
:32:59. > :33:04.eurozone. Sweden, like Britain, has seen a growth of the Euro-
:33:04. > :33:07.scepticism, and Sweden, like Britain has a centre-right-led
:33:07. > :33:11.Government. How did they view what is going on within the Conservative
:33:11. > :33:16.Party? I caught up with Sweden's Finance Minister, who is on a visit
:33:16. > :33:20.to London. Minister, I just wondered how you
:33:20. > :33:24.view the prospect that Britain could actually end up leaving the
:33:24. > :33:28.European Union? For Sweden it is a very worrying prospect. We need the
:33:28. > :33:31.UK at the heart of the European co- operation. The UK is part of a
:33:31. > :33:35.dynamic and growing Europe, and normally Sweden and the UK tend to
:33:35. > :33:40.have the same views on openness, competitiveness and free trade. For
:33:40. > :33:44.us it is very worrying that the British debate seems to be sliding,
:33:44. > :33:48.where you almost accidentally might be leaving the European Union.
:33:48. > :33:52.that what you worry about, not that it is a deliberate act, but it may
:33:52. > :33:58.go that way by accident almost? Politically processes are very
:33:58. > :34:02.difficult to control. For us, the UK is a score ally, and also, I
:34:02. > :34:05.think, from a Swedish-British perspective, London is the
:34:06. > :34:09.financial centre of Europe, if the UK is sliding out of Europe, I
:34:10. > :34:13.can't really see how London can play such a crucial role as it do
:34:13. > :34:18.both for the UK and Sweden and the rest of Europe. Do you worry about
:34:18. > :34:21.the uncertainty, it is a very uncertain time for British business,
:34:21. > :34:25.who certainly complain they want to know what is going to happen?
:34:25. > :34:29.think that is a clear problem. When I meet the Swedish internationals,
:34:29. > :34:35.nobody is talking about the European Union issue for the UK,
:34:35. > :34:37.only three to six months ago, today it is an issue that is brought up
:34:37. > :34:40.in my conversation, where they are asking me what will happen, and
:34:40. > :34:43.can't they leave, are they really seriously considering this. I think
:34:43. > :34:47.that uncertainty is quite problematic for Britain. However,
:34:47. > :34:51.Sweden has the own problems with the European Union sometimes, there
:34:51. > :34:56.are some things that you don't like. I wondered, as a very good friend
:34:56. > :34:59.of this country, what you feel might be practical or possible in
:34:59. > :35:09.terms of can you go back over the past, and renegotiate certain
:35:09. > :35:09.
:35:09. > :35:12.things. Can you say policing policy, criminal justice, perhaps some
:35:12. > :35:15.things with paying benefits to migrant that is come here, that
:35:15. > :35:18.those things are possible to renegotiate? We have to listen to
:35:18. > :35:22.what the British Government is saying here, and fundamentally we
:35:22. > :35:27.are supportive of a solution that would make it possible for the UK
:35:27. > :35:31.to stay in the union. But this is a negotiation between the 27 member
:35:31. > :35:35.states, so I think one should be realistic of the difficulty we are
:35:35. > :35:39.facing here. As you know the US State Department has suggested that
:35:39. > :35:43.the real role for Britain has to be as a strong player in the EU as you
:35:43. > :35:49.want, and as David Cameron says he wants. They also suggest that even
:35:49. > :35:53.the process of a referendum can lead to countries turning inward.
:35:53. > :35:58.You had a referendum on the euro, do you feel that is what happens,
:35:58. > :36:02.your country turned inward, we may turn inward if we have a
:36:02. > :36:07.referendum? Referendums tend to be very close to a 50-50 score between
:36:07. > :36:11.the voters. Obviously accidents can happen in a referendum campaign,
:36:12. > :36:16.and so, therefore, there is an uncertainty here. For us, who are
:36:16. > :36:20.close to Britain, who are reliant on the British voice to be at the
:36:20. > :36:24.table when we are talking about openness and competitiveness, this
:36:24. > :36:28.is an uncertainty that is worrying for us. Just a final point, the
:36:28. > :36:31.biggest picture within Europe, really, it is not just the British
:36:31. > :36:34.who have certain reservations about Europe, there is a degree of
:36:34. > :36:39.uncertainty all across Europe, about what kind of Europe we are
:36:39. > :36:45.going to be living in five years time. I wondered what your thoughts
:36:45. > :36:49.are? You made it absolutely clear you wanted Europe of a 27, but we
:36:49. > :36:54.will have a multi-speed Europe, and we already have, in a way?
:36:54. > :36:58.deeply worried that some of the voices in the Franco-German debate
:36:58. > :37:02.are indicating they want a fully fledged fiscal and banking union.
:37:03. > :37:07.There are very few citizens supporting that, that would divide
:37:07. > :37:13.Europe between one area and the rest. I strongly believe in the
:37:13. > :37:17.European Union as a world function -- well-functioning 27 member-state.
:37:17. > :37:20.That is why you want Britain at your side? Most definitely, for us
:37:20. > :37:26.it is a key point that Britain stays in Europe, it is a strong
:37:26. > :37:28.voice, on the same side as us when it comes to flexibility, dynamics
:37:28. > :37:32.and openness. Thank you very much minister.
:37:32. > :37:36.News that horse meat has been found in burgers on sale in British
:37:36. > :37:41.supermarkets of on the front page of some newspapers today. But not
:37:41. > :37:46.everyone was alarmed, on Twitter, some vegetarians pondered why meat
:37:47. > :37:53.eaters are prepared to eat cows and sheep, even occasionally deer and
:37:53. > :37:58.rabbit, but go into deep shock taking a bite out of a pony. Beyond
:37:59. > :38:03.the mislabelling of horses beef, is it British to not want to dine on
:38:03. > :38:08.some animals, while happily chewing on others. I have never eaten horse
:38:08. > :38:13.before, Henry Harris is chef and owner of the restaurant Racine.
:38:13. > :38:18.He's preparing a bit of beef and horse for us. They look similar,
:38:18. > :38:24.are they easy to cook? They are, the horse, darker, cooks the same
:38:24. > :38:34.way as a beef steak. You will cook up as Steve Smith serves up a bit
:38:34. > :38:35.
:38:35. > :38:38.of an advertiser for us. ( Black Beauty Music) I don't know
:38:38. > :38:44.about you, but I like my burgers measured in pounds, not hands.
:38:44. > :38:52.That is why we have come here to Lingfield Park, where they
:38:52. > :38:57.appreciate horse flesh in the old fashioned way. We found grown men
:38:57. > :39:01.so distraught over horse burgers that they were weeping into their
:39:01. > :39:05.betting slips. I won't lie, there were a lot of long faces. I think
:39:05. > :39:09.when you are a child, to see a horse or a donkey or anything, you
:39:09. > :39:15.always seem to, from being a child, always want to ride them. Is that
:39:16. > :39:20.true for you? It was for me, yes. The first thing I ever rode was a
:39:20. > :39:24.donkey on Blackpool sands when I was a kid. Did you place? No it
:39:24. > :39:32.wasn't a raise. What do you think about the British attitude to
:39:32. > :39:38.horses? We are rather fond of them, aren't we? Yeah, I don't want them
:39:39. > :39:44.in my hamburgers. What are the odds on finding a bookie from Tasmania,
:39:44. > :39:49.who has sampled exotic sweet meats? It is like kangaroo in Australia,
:39:49. > :39:54.if you like a wallabee, it is tasty for those who want that. What does
:39:54. > :39:58.that taste like? It has a different twaes, I wouldn't say it is --
:39:58. > :40:03.Taste, I wouldn't say it is a sweet taste, but you have to be switched
:40:03. > :40:10.on to like and appreciate it. British love their horse, William
:40:10. > :40:18.Shakespeare attributed to Richard 3, the battle of 1885, "my horse, my
:40:18. > :40:23.horse, my kingdom for a horse", you have Black Beauty right up to Dick
:40:23. > :40:26.Turpin. Horses have been revered throughout the centuries, we had
:40:26. > :40:33.the plough horse pulling the plouings, there is an affection for
:40:33. > :40:36.horse, and no eating of horses. Hang on a minute. Horse meat is
:40:36. > :40:43.rapidly becoming part of Britain's diet. There was a moment in our
:40:43. > :40:47.history, a folk memory we have all but suppressed. It is estimated
:40:47. > :40:52.three-quarters of the horse meat sold goes to the restaurants.
:40:53. > :41:01.Decent men and women tied on the nose bag for rare horse because of
:41:01. > :41:06.shortages and rationing after the war. How does it sound so far Ed?
:41:06. > :41:10.Pretty sad. Ever since Mr Ed and other four-legged friends got their
:41:10. > :41:14.own shows, few of us could bring ourselves to look a horse steak in
:41:14. > :41:19.the eye. Back at Lingfield Park, I'm not
:41:19. > :41:24.saying it is getting foggy, but the starter is using flares. What do
:41:24. > :41:28.you eat before a race? Well, she's carrying nine stone seven, and I'm
:41:28. > :41:34.claiming seven, I could eat whatever I wanted today. That is
:41:34. > :41:39.brilliant. You have had lots of cake? Plenty of Wheetabix.
:41:39. > :41:44.wouldn't have a horse burger? Nothing like that. If I were to
:41:44. > :41:50.take you to a fast food outlet and offer you on the BBC a horse burger,
:41:50. > :41:54.or part there of, what would you say? I would be absolutely appalled,
:41:54. > :41:58.and so would anybody in this country. The thought of us going in
:41:58. > :42:02.and having a horse meat burger on BBC hospitality, surely it would
:42:02. > :42:07.never stoop to that level. We will soon find out. Henry has been
:42:07. > :42:10.cooking up the horse and beef, and with us is the food critic Rose
:42:10. > :42:15.Prince. The first thing to say is getting hold of this was very
:42:15. > :42:19.difficult. We were able to get in London very easily, zebra, insects,
:42:19. > :42:25.all kinds of things you can eat, but getting that is tricky. Does it
:42:25. > :42:32.surprise you? No, not at all. Most people, there is this misconception
:42:32. > :42:37.that we shouldn't be eating horse. I think there is the whole pet
:42:37. > :42:42.conotations, and companionship hors give people that puts them off. You
:42:42. > :42:47.go to the continent, Italy are the largest consumers of horse meat,
:42:47. > :42:51.they don't have the same connection and they appreciate it for more its
:42:51. > :42:56.cullinary rather than companion qualities. While you are letting it
:42:56. > :43:00.settle for a second, I will bring you in. Exotic meats provided the
:43:00. > :43:06.meat for us, it was tricky to get it. The core of this particular
:43:06. > :43:14.story is about mislabelling, if you go into buy beef you don't want
:43:14. > :43:17.horse in it? Nobody should adult ate beef, if you buy beef it should
:43:17. > :43:22.be beef. This is a terrible story about the food industry, I hope
:43:22. > :43:25.somebody gets to the bottom of it and sorts it out. It appears to
:43:26. > :43:29.have gone on for some time. have eaten horse before? I have,
:43:29. > :43:34.only once in the UK. I went to dinner with somebody in the West
:43:34. > :43:39.Country. They produced horse, they did warn us. They claimed they had
:43:39. > :43:44.been buying it regularly from Market Street holder on the street
:43:44. > :43:49.corner who kept it under the counter. It is not illegal? For the
:43:49. > :43:54.reasons Henry has given, people find it unacceptable. The taboos
:43:54. > :43:59.given in the and what Henry has said are true. We are very spoilt,
:43:59. > :44:04.we can choose what we eat. When you look back to war time and to when
:44:04. > :44:09.the French started to eat horse when the revolution started. The
:44:09. > :44:15.arris crates had it first. They ate it out of need. It is one of those
:44:15. > :44:18.meats that falls into the catagories sometimes. It had
:44:18. > :44:22.supposedly health-giving properties, it is supposed to be low in fat?
:44:22. > :44:26.Dismissing it is in conflict that we are always looking for healthy
:44:26. > :44:32.meats these days. Horse meat has very little fat in it. As you can
:44:33. > :44:39.see by locking at it. I don't know if you want to have a try? I don't
:44:39. > :44:43.know if my family would forgive me. You will have some? Maybe I should
:44:43. > :44:49.pour some wine. To be honest I would rather have the horse meat
:44:49. > :44:53.than the BBC wine. That is another story! There we go. What wine
:44:53. > :44:59.actually goes with this Henry, do you think? Because it is so rich in
:44:59. > :45:04.iron, you want something that is sun baked, a good southern French
:45:04. > :45:08.Rhone would be a good companion for it. I'm not sure it fits into that
:45:08. > :45:11.category. I have forgotten which one is which? The darker red one is
:45:11. > :45:15.the horse meat. I'll have a Government That is the interesting
:45:15. > :45:19.thing, how this got into burgers is it would actually improve the
:45:19. > :45:26.assurance of a burger, adding it to the meat. You would certainly make
:45:26. > :45:29.it look leaner, you would make it look like you were getting more.
:45:29. > :45:35.is excellent, it tastes like the best steak, it isn't very faty. I
:45:35. > :45:41.take it nobody comes into your restaurant, a great French
:45:41. > :45:45.restaurant, do you have any horse? Occasionally people ask for it, but
:45:45. > :45:49.the logistics of buying a decent quantity from France, importing it
:45:49. > :45:56.to sell to one person and having kilos left, it doesn't make sense.
:45:56. > :46:01.Will we ever change our habits, we love horses, wonderful animals, we
:46:01. > :46:05.love horse racing, we won't go down the French route whatever. It is
:46:05. > :46:10.unlikely, in the same way in France it is rarer and rarer to find T if
:46:10. > :46:14.you Google horse butchers, there used to be one hundreds and
:46:14. > :46:20.hundreds, now there is one or two, it is disappearing, because
:46:20. > :46:25.people's tastes change. You don't think it will change in Britain? We
:46:25. > :46:28.eat zebra, apparently? I think it is something, it falls into a
:46:28. > :46:34.category of foods which will always be taboo, because of our
:46:34. > :46:39.relationships with hors being so strong. We quite enjoy knocking the
:46:39. > :46:45.French. They eat disgusting things like terrible things like snails
:46:45. > :46:49.and frogs legs. It belongs in those catagories of what the
:46:49. > :46:51.unsophisticated people do and we don't. I will continue to be
:46:51. > :46:55.unsophisticated. That is it for Newsnight. We will see which of the
:46:55. > :47:05.team surrounding us can be tempted by a bit of horse. We will be back
:47:05. > :47:26.
:47:26. > :47:30.by a bit of horse. We will be back again tomorrow. Good night Hello
:47:30. > :47:36.there, another cold evening, cold night, widespread frost, central
:47:36. > :47:39.eastern areas. Dense fog in the east of England. Further west
:47:39. > :47:43.patchy rain and snow over the Welsh mountains. That split will continue
:47:43. > :47:48.through the day. Brightness through northern parts of England, once the
:47:48. > :47:52.low cloud and mist has broken up. A few patches around the vale of York,
:47:52. > :47:56.Lyndonshire and towards East Anglia. Most of central England will be dry
:47:56. > :48:01.and bright. Thicker cloud could produce light snow, nothing to
:48:01. > :48:04.concern us at this stage. Further south and west, greyer skies,
:48:04. > :48:07.strengthening breeze, bringing patchy rain. Slight snow over the
:48:07. > :48:11.moors, across the Welsh mountains, starting to feel increasingly cold
:48:11. > :48:16.as the wind picks up. As is the case in Northern Ireland, we will
:48:16. > :48:22.see more in the case of rain and drizzle through the day. Away from
:48:22. > :48:25.the far west, dry and bright, with sunny spells around. Some freezing
:48:25. > :48:29.throughout. The south-easterly wind continues to strengthen,
:48:29. > :48:33.interacting with the rain band. Snow developing over the hills here.
:48:33. > :48:36.Around the coast of south-west England and Walesment for the
:48:36. > :48:40.morning rush hour on Friday, western England and Wales, there