:00:12. > :00:17.Francais it has reached a turning point in Mali.
:00:17. > :00:24.Newsnight reports from inside the country. Will any peace be
:00:24. > :00:28.shattered by violent reprisals. TRANSLATION: They tied up the head
:00:28. > :00:32.of the family, and raped his wife in front of him, and then his
:00:32. > :00:42.daughter. I saw it with my own eyes. I thought my family would be next.
:00:42. > :00:43.
:00:43. > :00:49.So we fled. The French ambassador is here.
:00:49. > :00:52.The mystery substance coating seabirds washed up on the south
:00:52. > :00:56.coast, bird watcher Chris Packham is here. He thinks it is the tip of
:00:56. > :01:01.the iceberg. It is time to polish your Polish, it is very popular.
:01:01. > :01:11.Poland we have a lot of complicated world, they have more and more
:01:11. > :01:13.
:01:13. > :01:18.difficulties than English. France's military mission in Mali
:01:18. > :01:21.appears to be nearing its end, Special Forces are reportedly in
:01:21. > :01:25.Kidal, the last town occupied by militants. France's Defence
:01:26. > :01:30.Minister says the Jihadists have scattered, and a turning point has
:01:30. > :01:34.been reached. Now what. We will ask the French ambassador to the UK in
:01:34. > :01:39.a moment, if you want an indication of the problems that lie ahead,
:01:39. > :01:43.even after any peace has been achieved, look no further than this
:01:43. > :01:52.report. This report contains image that is reflect the brutality of
:01:52. > :02:00.the conflict. Ready to die for their country.
:02:00. > :02:04.These young men are preparing to go home. Called scat the Children of
:02:04. > :02:10.the Land, they are a militia, made up largely from refugees of the
:02:10. > :02:14.north of Mali. As French paratroops and Malian regular forces retake
:02:14. > :02:18.the region from Islamists and seperatist forces, their job will
:02:18. > :02:24.be to go in behind and deal with the new threat. The danger now,
:02:24. > :02:27.says the Maliian soldier instructing them, is infiltration.
:02:27. > :02:31.TRANSLATION: The rebels will hide among the population, we must be
:02:31. > :02:35.prepared for attacks and suicide bomber. The militia know the
:02:35. > :02:42.territory, they know the people. They know who is who. They can pick
:02:42. > :02:45.out the rebels and deliver them to us. For months they have been
:02:45. > :02:52.training in this camp, south of the frontline, brooding over what
:02:52. > :02:55.happened last year. That's when rebels, first Tuareg seperatists,
:02:55. > :03:05.then Jihadis, some links to Al- Qaeda, came to their homes in
:03:05. > :03:12.Timbuktu and other towns. TRANSLATION: They tied up the head
:03:12. > :03:17.of the family, and then raped his wife in front of him, and then his
:03:17. > :03:22.daughter. I it with my own eyes. I thought my family would be next, so
:03:22. > :03:27.we fled. They raped many women, they took them into the dunes for
:03:27. > :03:32.two or three days, and then they came back for more. We have heard
:03:32. > :03:36.rebels committed many rapes. But the militia is keen to stress to me
:03:36. > :03:45.that there will be no summary justice. TRANSLATION: You can't
:03:45. > :03:50.take justice into your own hands. This man says he also saw girls
:03:50. > :03:58.taken to be raped. And young men forced to join the rebels. He says
:03:58. > :04:03.now they want revenge. That's the word they are not meant to use, but
:04:03. > :04:06.they are the successors of a previous militia accused of
:04:07. > :04:10.atrocities, particularly against ethnic Tuareg, and they hope the
:04:10. > :04:14.military will arm them soon. These forces seem well disciplined, they
:04:14. > :04:19.say they are going to abide by the law. But there is an obvious danger
:04:19. > :04:21.when they return to their own home regions in the north, where they
:04:21. > :04:28.say their families have suffered under the rebels, that there will
:04:28. > :04:31.be a settling of scores. Like many Malian soldiers, the instructor has
:04:31. > :04:36.had training from the Americans. British military advisers will now
:04:36. > :04:42.also be working with men like him. But in his heart is something they
:04:42. > :04:49.won't approve of. Many Tuareg are loyal to Mali, but he wants
:04:49. > :04:53.vengence against a whole ethnic group. TRANSLATION: All Tuareg are
:04:53. > :05:03.rebels or bandits. When we get to the north, they should get out of
:05:03. > :05:03.
:05:03. > :05:09.our way. They are enemies of the state. The river niej certificate
:05:09. > :05:12.the highway that unites this -- Niger is the highway that unites
:05:12. > :05:16.these people. Until the war they scratched a living side-by-side,
:05:16. > :05:21.but now fear has driven away the Tuareg who control the salt trade
:05:21. > :05:28.from The Sahara. They fled to refugee camps in neighbouring
:05:28. > :05:37.countries. I ask what they are afraid of? Of
:05:37. > :05:41.death, he says, of being killed by Malian soldiers.
:05:41. > :05:45.It's not just Tuareg who are under suspicion now. Nearly three weeks
:05:45. > :05:50.ago, just after France intervened in Mali, this man saw something
:05:50. > :05:59.he's afraid to speak of openly. The Maliian military had arrested three
:05:59. > :06:03.students in Islamic dress, with who had no identity papers.
:06:03. > :06:06.TRANSLATION: When I got there, the students had their hands tied
:06:06. > :06:11.behind their backment they were on their knees. I heard one of them
:06:11. > :06:15.say, for the sake of God don't kill me, I'm not the enemy, I'm just a
:06:15. > :06:18.student of the Koran. But one of the military guys said, don't
:06:18. > :06:23.listen to them, they were infiltrators, they talked among
:06:23. > :06:27.themselves, and one said, fire, they shot all three of them, in the
:06:27. > :06:31.chest. Then they dragged them by their feet, and threw them into a
:06:31. > :06:38.well. We went to the place he described.
:06:38. > :06:43.There are reports that as many as 20 or 30 suspected infiltrators may
:06:43. > :06:47.have been executed by Malian forces here. You can see lines of blood
:06:47. > :06:56.going all the way down, and some of this earth has clearly been pushed
:06:56. > :07:00.down, to hide the bodies at the bottom. The Maliian Government has
:07:00. > :07:09.said it will investigate what happened. But it's clear several
:07:09. > :07:15.wells hold awful secrets. Down below me, what appear to be the
:07:15. > :07:21.bodies of several people. There's a horrible smell coming from down
:07:21. > :07:24.this well, you can see the blood splattered all around. There is no
:07:24. > :07:30.doubt that people were killed here. And that's just a few hundred yards
:07:30. > :07:34.from a crowded bus station just over there. At the bus station
:07:34. > :07:37.everyone's heard of the killings. But it is very hard to find anyone
:07:37. > :07:44.who will admit to having seen them. People are afraid of the
:07:44. > :07:49.consequences of speaking out. In the Old Town of mock at this, they
:07:49. > :07:53.have heard too, and -- Mokti, they have heard too, and they are
:07:53. > :07:56.worried. This is the home to a people with a reputation of pieity,
:07:56. > :08:00.but today it is hard to find the usual Islamic students on the
:08:00. > :08:03.streets. We find some at last, studying inside. They say they
:08:04. > :08:10.don't dare go out any more, because so many like them have been
:08:10. > :08:14.arrested. They have no sympathy, they say, with the Jihadis, but
:08:14. > :08:18.they can guess why others joined the rebellion.
:08:18. > :08:22.TRANSLATION: Some have the conviction to fight for God and
:08:22. > :08:28.really have good Islamisation in their country. Some people, they
:08:28. > :08:32.say also to people, if you go with them you can have, 150,000 a month.
:08:32. > :08:36.That's why some people also go. Because they have nothing.
:08:36. > :08:40.could this happen in Mali? For centuries there were strong,
:08:40. > :08:44.centralised states here, the peoples have usually lived in
:08:44. > :08:48.harmony, for most of the last 20 years, and it had a functioning
:08:48. > :08:57.democracy. One of the President's closest advisers says that was a
:08:57. > :09:07.facade that's now cracked. Mali, although it was showcased as
:09:07. > :09:09.
:09:09. > :09:14.a strong democracy in Africa, was, from the start, a failed state. We
:09:14. > :09:20.have a lot of corruption and no discipline in the army. In a
:09:20. > :09:24.country which is one of the poorest in the world. He's grateful now to
:09:24. > :09:28.the French and other forces, that victory over the rebels -- but
:09:28. > :09:34.victory over the rebels, won't be enough. If we are defeated in the
:09:34. > :09:42.north you are not solving the main issue. The main issue is how to use
:09:42. > :09:46.the most efficiently, as possible, the meagre resources of the country.
:09:46. > :09:50.The talk today, thanks largely to the French, is of liberation. But
:09:50. > :09:56.it will take months or years to see whether Mali has really been
:09:56. > :10:01.reunited. That will be the true test of the west's intervention.
:10:01. > :10:05.Bernard Emie is the French ambassador to the UK. And in all
:10:06. > :10:10.candour, has this operation gone much better than you might have
:10:10. > :10:14.feared? So far we have reached our objectives. I just want to remind
:10:14. > :10:19.you that we had three main objectives. First of all, to stop
:10:19. > :10:22.the Jihadist offensive towards the south. These people wanted to
:10:22. > :10:28.concur Bamako, and to -- conquer Bamako, and establish a terrorist
:10:28. > :10:33.state in the heart of Africa. We stopped that. The second point, we
:10:33. > :10:37.wanted to help the Malians to restore authority of the whole
:10:37. > :10:42.territory, and to restore the sovereignty and territorial
:10:42. > :10:45.integrity. Thirdly, the objective is to make sure that we are in a
:10:45. > :10:50.position to help the African-led mission to be deployed on the
:10:50. > :10:55.territory. It is on the way. Things are going according to our plans. I
:10:55. > :11:00.want just to say again that we acted urgently, at the request of
:11:00. > :11:04.the Malian authorities n full accordance with the United Nations
:11:04. > :11:09.security council's charter. Were the rebels defeated or did they
:11:09. > :11:12.felt away? We had a lot of clashes with emthis, it is not an easy ride.
:11:13. > :11:16.Our servicemen and soldiers were extremely brave in the field.
:11:16. > :11:21.not suggesting they weren't, but are they all gone? The rebels
:11:21. > :11:28.melted away as well. We had some clashes with the rebels. Now we are
:11:28. > :11:32.moving, we are in Kidal, as you said in the film, we are making
:11:32. > :11:37.sure that the Malian authorities come back and get the power to
:11:37. > :11:44.restore law and order in the cities. This is not our mission, to restore
:11:44. > :11:49.law and order, the Malian police come back to the cities. We
:11:49. > :11:52.continue to help the Malians to reconquer the sovereignty on the
:11:52. > :11:57.whole territory. How long will France stay in the country, is it
:11:57. > :12:02.your hope, at least, that some other force, either UN-backed, or
:12:02. > :12:06.from the AU, will take over soon? It is very clear, we will stay as
:12:06. > :12:10.long as necessary. We didn't fix any deadline for our presence. What
:12:10. > :12:14.matters to us right now, first of all, is to have the Malian forces
:12:14. > :12:22.being trained, and this is the objective of what we call the
:12:22. > :12:26.European train mission in Mali, with around 500 men from 12-20
:12:26. > :12:32.European countries. The second point, we want the African-led
:12:32. > :12:37.forces to be deployed in Mali. They should be around 7,000. And we do
:12:37. > :12:41.already have more than 2,000 in the field. These African forces,
:12:41. > :12:45.according to the United Nations resolution, are in charge of
:12:46. > :12:50.helping the Malian Armed Forces to recover their own sovereignty on
:12:50. > :12:56.the whole territory. The French are not intending to stay in Mali
:12:56. > :12:59.longer than necessary. Are those African forces up to the job of
:12:59. > :13:03.desert fighting? They are very good, they know how to fight in the
:13:03. > :13:08.desert. Many of the forces are extremely good. But we are going
:13:08. > :13:11.train them. That is why we had recently in Addis Ababa, an
:13:11. > :13:15.International Conference in order to raise fupeds and support for
:13:15. > :13:18.this of a -- funds and support for these African forces. We have to
:13:18. > :13:24.support them as much as possible. By the way, they are grateful to
:13:24. > :13:28.the British forces, and to the British establishment and to the
:13:28. > :13:32.British authorities to have decided to be part of that effort.
:13:32. > :13:38.Britain come up with everything you asked it for? Absolutely. We
:13:38. > :13:43.requested logistical transport yaiing, we have two C-17s --
:13:43. > :13:48.transportation, we have two C-17s and aircraft and civilians. We have
:13:48. > :13:52.a British participation to the AU team in Mali. And you are going to
:13:52. > :13:55.support the training of certain English-speaking African countries.
:13:55. > :13:58.It has been quite a popular conflict in terms of French public
:13:58. > :14:02.opinion, will that continue the longer France is in there? It seems
:14:02. > :14:06.to me there is a national unity around this operation. Because the
:14:06. > :14:10.people do understand the rational for that operation. That is a war
:14:10. > :14:15.of necessity. We had to stop terrorism in that part of Africa.
:14:15. > :14:21.Has it been stopped, is Mali no longer in danger of being a
:14:21. > :14:23."terrorist state"? I'm not saying that, we stopped Bamako being
:14:23. > :14:27.conquered by the Jihadist and terrorists, we have to make sure it
:14:27. > :14:32.is not going to be a refuge for terrorists. It is not completely
:14:32. > :14:36.over, but we want the Malian state to be in a position to be stable,
:14:36. > :14:40.and then, to move to the national reconciliation in Mali. That's a
:14:40. > :14:44.very important objective that we have as well. How much UN
:14:44. > :14:48.involvement do you accept anticipate? At the moment you have
:14:48. > :14:53.a UN Security Council resolution, the regional organisation of west
:14:53. > :14:58.Africa is part of the process, and this African-led force is part of
:14:58. > :15:00.the UN resolution. Afterwards, maybe, we will have a UN
:15:00. > :15:07.peacekeeping operation, it is under discussion in the United Nations,
:15:07. > :15:10.with our African friends, and with our United Nations and Security
:15:10. > :15:14.Council partners. Are the streets of France and Britain safer
:15:14. > :15:17.directly as a result of this operation? Well, I think that we
:15:17. > :15:21.have to be extremely cautious on that. I think that these people,
:15:21. > :15:25.they were threatening Mali, but they are threatening Europe as well.
:15:25. > :15:30.I think that we are under threat from Al-Qaeda in the Islamic
:15:30. > :15:34.Maghreb, and we should join all efforts to prevent these people
:15:35. > :15:38.from being able to export their terrorist acts. Thank you very much
:15:38. > :15:41.for talking to us about these important matters of life and death.
:15:41. > :15:46.I want to ask you also since you are here about a subject that is
:15:46. > :15:49.matter of life and death for some people, football, David Beckham
:15:49. > :15:53.joining Paris St Germain, what is what are your thoughts? Football is
:15:53. > :15:57.very important to the French people. David Beckham is an international
:15:57. > :16:02.sta, and we are pleased and proud to have him coming to Paris. He's
:16:02. > :16:08.not coming to live in Paris? We are looking forward to David Beckham
:16:08. > :16:13.coming and spending a lot of money in Paris. Thank you.
:16:13. > :16:22.In a moment, the mystery of the birds being washed up on the south
:16:23. > :16:30.coast. Also in the programme. (speaks Polish) Yes, amazing.
:16:30. > :16:34.What's she on about? We will talk language later.
:16:34. > :16:38.In the middle of the afternoon, we got first reports of seabirds.
:16:38. > :16:43.Hundreds of people being washed up on beachs from Cornwall to Dorset.
:16:43. > :16:46.Some alive, some dead. All of them covered in some kind of sticky
:16:46. > :16:54.substance. We are told it wasn't oil, and the usual cleaning methods
:16:54. > :16:58.employed by rescuers weren't working.
:16:58. > :17:02.This could be the first sign of a major environmental tragedy.
:17:02. > :17:08.Hundreds of birds have been found washed up along the English south
:17:08. > :17:11.coast, in an area from Dorset, right across to Cornwall. The
:17:11. > :17:15.majority are guillemots, the dark brown and white seabird that is
:17:15. > :17:18.only come to land to nest along the cliffs to the south west of
:17:18. > :17:25.Scotland, and spend the rest of their lives at sea. They have been
:17:25. > :17:28.covered, not in oil, but by a white waxy and glue-like substance, still
:17:28. > :17:33.unidentified, that sticks their feathers together, that makes it
:17:33. > :17:38.difficult to fly and causes source to their legs. Almost 100
:17:38. > :17:42.guillemots have been found in Dorset over the last few years.
:17:42. > :17:46.A member of the Dorset wildlife Trust was one of the first to find
:17:46. > :17:52.them, they were in a serious state. They preen themselves and ingest
:17:52. > :17:56.whatever this substance is. It is unidentified at the moment. They
:17:56. > :18:06.ingest it, they can't swim. It is sticky, so they stick to the rocks
:18:06. > :18:08.
:18:08. > :18:12.as well. They can't feed, and can't fluff up their feathers. They are
:18:12. > :18:16.dying. We picked up bin bags of dead birds in sacks today, so they
:18:16. > :18:19.are dying. The ones we have rescued and the RSPCA has got, are
:18:19. > :18:24.responding well to treatment. they have been rescued, the birds
:18:24. > :18:28.were taken to a centre in Somerset, placed on drips, and there were
:18:28. > :18:33.attempts to clear the mystery white substance from their feathers.
:18:33. > :18:39.have tried the normal solvents that get oil off, that hasn't been
:18:39. > :18:43.successful. They are using margerine, and the birds that have
:18:43. > :18:46.died, they have left them and the substance solidfies and it brushes
:18:46. > :18:51.off. They are trying different kinds of methods. The birds are
:18:51. > :18:56.responding well to the treatment they are giving them. Many of the
:18:56. > :19:04.affected birds have been found along the seashore around Portland,
:19:04. > :19:07.according to the RSPB have been found in Wrexham, and Sulkham.
:19:07. > :19:10.Tonight scientists are trying to establish what the substance is.
:19:10. > :19:13.The Environment Agency have collected samples for testing,
:19:13. > :19:18.while the marine and Coastguard Agency are looking into where it
:19:19. > :19:24.might have come from. It could, it seems, be vegtable-based. It might
:19:24. > :19:29.be some sort of palm oil, maybe it reacts with the salt in the water
:19:29. > :19:34.and sticks with the bird's feather. I have been dealing with spills for
:19:34. > :19:38.22 years, I have never dealt with a contaminant like this, it is fuel-
:19:38. > :19:43.based. There are fears that the mystery substance might cause
:19:43. > :19:48.damage to more than seabirds. haven't seen anything on the
:19:48. > :19:51.shoreline, we look out for it, in case it affects seals and other
:19:52. > :19:55.things like dolphin, whatever is on the coastline. We have to look out
:19:55. > :19:59.for that. Nothing is on the shore. Unless it is dispersed out on the
:19:59. > :20:02.sea and they have caught it and it has dropped and dispered and the
:20:02. > :20:05.birds are coming in. As for the cause, it could be illegal action
:20:05. > :20:10.from shipping? Obviously it is not a ship that has gone down, that
:20:10. > :20:13.would have been reported. It sounds like it is some form of either
:20:13. > :20:17.accidental or even purposeful, illegal, tang washing that is going
:20:17. > :20:22.on in the channel somewhere. Now the weather is not ideal for
:20:22. > :20:26.monitoring and flying to look for spills. But I would hope that
:20:26. > :20:30.within the next 24-hours, some investigation is put into place to
:20:30. > :20:37.find out what is going on out in the channel. Because what we don't
:20:37. > :20:41.want to do in this situation is to have something that impacts on more
:20:41. > :20:47.wildlife. There are fears many more birds will be found washed up in
:20:47. > :20:54.the morning, perhaps the scale and cause of the tragedy will be known.
:20:55. > :20:58.We have the leader of the rescue mission at the RSPCA. And we have
:20:58. > :21:02.Chris Packham from the BBC's natural history unit.
:21:02. > :21:07.We got wind of this today, you have been dealing with this since
:21:07. > :21:11.yesterday? Yeah, the first birds came into us, actually we had three
:21:11. > :21:19.birds in the day before yesterday, three guillemots with the sticky
:21:19. > :21:22.substance on them. Those birds weren't in a good way at all. Yes
:21:23. > :21:27.it really started to escalate, and the number of birds today has
:21:27. > :21:33.really taken off. Do you know what sort of numbers we are talking
:21:33. > :21:35.about? We have 123 birds currently in the centre. More have been
:21:35. > :21:38.admitted, but unfortunately they haven't made it. Reports from the
:21:38. > :21:42.beaches is there are hundreds of birds affected by it. We are
:21:42. > :21:48.expecting more birds in tomorrow. What proportion are you able to
:21:48. > :21:51.save? Most so far. We have lost a couple of birds that have been lame.
:21:51. > :21:55.Some of the birds that we are seeing towards the end of the day
:21:55. > :21:58.have obviously been in the water for longer. They have been
:21:58. > :22:01.obviously struggling. They can't fly, they are struggling to stay
:22:01. > :22:04.afloat. They have been suffering for longer, those birds are in
:22:04. > :22:08.worse condition than the ones we saw earlier. But we have still
:22:08. > :22:12.managed to save most of the birds that have come in so far. Talk me
:22:12. > :22:17.through your process, a bit. What was your first guess as to what the
:22:17. > :22:21.substance was, and what did you try to tackle it with, and what did you
:22:21. > :22:26.move on to? Well, with any bird that has something on it. The first
:22:26. > :22:29.stop really is to use something like a soap detergent, just a
:22:29. > :22:34.washing up detergent, that didn't touch this substance at all. But
:22:34. > :22:38.the people here who work in rehabilitation, have come across
:22:39. > :22:47.all sorts of substances before, they tried margarine, that they
:22:47. > :22:51.have used on other substance, that caught on fly papers, and it does
:22:51. > :22:55.break down sticky substances, that worked very well. We still don't
:22:55. > :22:58.know the substance. At this stage what is your advice to people who
:22:58. > :23:03.want to come and have their morning constitutional on beach tomorrow,
:23:03. > :23:07.maybe out walking the dog. Should they be doing that? They should,
:23:07. > :23:11.they should probably look out. We don't know whatever it is washed
:23:11. > :23:17.around and caught the birds isn't washing up the beaches too. That is
:23:17. > :23:21.worth a word of caution. If they come across birds in distress, call
:23:21. > :23:25.the RSPCA to mobilise inspectors, if they are not already on the
:23:25. > :23:28.scene. In order to pick the birds up, we are advising people not to
:23:28. > :23:32.pick the birds up themselves, there are all sorts of issues surrounding
:23:32. > :23:35.that, and we don't know what the substance is. That wouldn't be the
:23:36. > :23:40.best idea. Call the RSPCA and we will get inspectors there. When
:23:40. > :23:44.will you and your clogs get some sleep? It will be a bit later --
:23:44. > :23:47.Your colleagues get some sleep? will be a bit later. These birds
:23:47. > :23:51.will be with us for a while and a lot of birds to get through
:23:51. > :23:55.tomorrow, it will be a while. do you think has gone on here?
:23:55. > :23:58.is difficult to say. It is obviously an unidentified substance
:23:58. > :24:01.and clearly affecting this population. At this time of year we
:24:01. > :24:05.have international low important populations of birds wirpbtering
:24:05. > :24:08.off our shores. These are not always species like the guillemot
:24:08. > :24:13.that you can see on the beach, they are coming from way out in the
:24:13. > :24:16.channel. What is frightening, if you are picking up 100 on the beach,
:24:16. > :24:21.there could be many more who have died and are lost at sea. This
:24:21. > :24:27.could be the tip of the iceberg. Not just birds could be affected?
:24:27. > :24:30.Mammals and seals along the coast, and crusttations as well. It is not
:24:30. > :24:35.just at the stage of them being damaged physically, if it is toxic
:24:35. > :24:41.and gets into the food chain, it can persist for many years and have
:24:41. > :24:48.affects on many types of animals, from shellfish and crusttations t
:24:48. > :24:53.might end up in pred -- crustaceans, but it might end up in the
:24:53. > :24:57.predators. We have to identify the source of the material and try to
:24:57. > :25:01.trace the ship. We hope there would be a legislative process to
:25:01. > :25:04.prosecute the culprit. This has to be seen as a crime. If it was
:25:04. > :25:08.deliberate and not accidental, because it is causing damage to
:25:08. > :25:12.significant numbers of birds, of significantly important
:25:12. > :25:21.conservation value. What kind of punishment is methed out for this
:25:21. > :25:24.kind of thing? Zrb Meted out for this sort of thing? In previous
:25:24. > :25:29.catastrophes, in our own and other places, it is very difficult to
:25:29. > :25:35.prosecute these companies. Very often they take a long, long time
:25:35. > :25:39.to make any compensation or mitigation processes. Has any work
:25:39. > :25:44.been done on what happens to birds in this sort of situation who are
:25:44. > :25:48.released back into the wild? It has, increasingly this is being
:25:48. > :25:52.researched. The figures are variable, if a bird is heavily
:25:52. > :25:57.oiled, the survival rate in the mid-term can be as low as 1%. If
:25:57. > :26:02.they will go back and most of them will die within seven days T
:26:02. > :26:05.depends on how much oil and which species. Some species are
:26:05. > :26:10.remarkably tolerant, they have had oil disasters in South Africa, and
:26:10. > :26:13.the penguin species that live there can take a lot of oil and a lot of
:26:13. > :26:17.treatment, and successfully put back into the wild. Their success
:26:17. > :26:21.is as high as 80%. In the circumstances we seem to understand
:26:21. > :26:24.now, we know the effort, is the financial cost of doing all this
:26:24. > :26:30.worth it in the end?. That is another consideration. Because,
:26:30. > :26:35.again, I did read a report that those birds which were oiled from
:26:35. > :26:44.the disaster in Alaska. Of those that were put back into the wild it
:26:44. > :26:50.cost �32,000 -- $32,000 per bird and the survival rate was low. The
:26:50. > :26:57.RSPCA have to make a quick decision on whether to use in this case that
:26:57. > :27:02.bird and move on to another. We -- uetnais the bird and move on to
:27:03. > :27:12.another. We want to do our best and make
:27:12. > :27:18.sure it is successful. We are pretty sure something
:27:18. > :27:25.happened involving Israel and Syria late on Tuesday night, or early
:27:25. > :27:29.yesterday morning. But what? US officials have told the BBC that
:27:29. > :27:33.Israeli jets struck a convoy carrying Russian-made surface-to-
:27:33. > :27:37.air missiles, as it headed towards the Lebanese border, bound for
:27:37. > :27:42.Hezbollah. That is not what the Syrian army says. A military
:27:42. > :27:47.announcement on state TV said jets bombed a military research centre
:27:47. > :27:52.in the area North West of the capital, Damascus, killing two
:27:52. > :27:58.people and wounding five others. For its part, Israel is saying
:27:58. > :28:03.nothing. Of other interested parties they are not saying much.
:28:03. > :28:07.If it was true it would mean a gross violation of the norms of
:28:07. > :28:11.international law and the charter. That is a matter of grave concern.
:28:11. > :28:15.In Brussels, the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, was nor diplomatic.
:28:15. > :28:20.I won't give any condemnation of Israel or rush into any criticism.
:28:20. > :28:23.There may be many things about it that we don't know, or the Arab
:28:23. > :28:28.League or Russia don't know. I think we should give our eyes on
:28:28. > :28:31.the main event and crisis. He also said he welcomed a sur advice
:28:31. > :28:36.declaration by a leader of the Syrian opposition, to negotiate
:28:36. > :28:40.with members of Assad's regime. Syria has formally complained to
:28:40. > :28:44.the UN, but retaliation seems unlikely. In 2007, Israeli
:28:44. > :28:48.warplanes reportedly bombed a suspected nuclear FA sill ein the
:28:48. > :28:51.country. But apart from an incident in November last year, it has tried
:28:51. > :28:57.to keep the distance from Syria's Civil War. One thing the Israeli
:28:57. > :29:04.Government has made clear, if it suspects a transfer of weapons from
:29:04. > :29:08.Syria to Hezbollah, it will act. It removed one of the Iron Dome
:29:08. > :29:12.defence batteries to the north of the country was said to be routine,
:29:12. > :29:18.but it reflected concern about growing unrest in the region.
:29:18. > :29:21.Jeff White is a Washington-based expert who specialises in Syria and
:29:21. > :29:27.Iran. What do you think happened here? We don't know for sure, there
:29:27. > :29:32.is a lot of confusion whether there were two attacks, one account or no
:29:32. > :29:37.attacks, conceivably. It looks like the most likely story
:29:37. > :29:41.here is that the Israelis struck Hezbollah arms convoy, trying to
:29:41. > :29:46.bring weapons from Syria into Lebanon. That seems to be the core
:29:46. > :29:53.story. The Syrians have an interest in trying to portray this as
:29:53. > :29:59.something else. Their story of an attack in a research centre doesn't
:29:59. > :30:06.look too good. The US has warned Syria not to transfer weapons to
:30:06. > :30:10.Hezbollah in Lebanon, is it by and large happy to sit this out?
:30:10. > :30:15.action the Israelis took is one of the most effective ways, I think,
:30:15. > :30:21.to stop this kind of thing from happening. In addition to whatever
:30:21. > :30:25.equipment the Israelis destroyed, presumablying that they did it. It
:30:25. > :30:29.sends a warning signal to the Syrian Government and Hezbollah,
:30:29. > :30:33.not to do this. That Israel is watching carefully and has the
:30:33. > :30:39.capability to strike these kinds of activities. That is the most
:30:39. > :30:41.effective way to deter them. The problem is Hezbollah and Syria have
:30:41. > :30:45.demonstrated that they are absolutely determined to do these
:30:45. > :30:50.kinds of things, especially over time. It is a dangerous game. We
:30:50. > :30:53.may see more of these kinds of events. I know you have been an
:30:53. > :30:58.advocate for greater American involvement in Syria earlier, but
:30:58. > :31:03.at this stage, what would it take the US to get more involved. We
:31:03. > :31:08.have had chemical weapons and all those warnings what would it take?
:31:08. > :31:10.The most likely thing is the chemical weapons issue, that the
:31:10. > :31:17.Syrians released chemical weapons against their own population, or
:31:17. > :31:21.that they try and transfer them to Hezbollah. Maybe if the radical
:31:21. > :31:27.Islamists get a hold of weapons, those might push the United States
:31:27. > :31:33.to become involved. Another possibility here is that the
:31:33. > :31:38.outbreak of a large, very large and snow-balling humanitarian crisis,
:31:38. > :31:42.with lots of people dying, lots of people in very difficult conditions,
:31:42. > :31:47.even beyond what we are seeing today, that might also push the US
:31:47. > :31:50.in the direction of more military involvement. As of now, I don't see
:31:51. > :31:57.either of those things on the immediate horizon. What did you
:31:57. > :32:00.want the US to do? My view was there is two kind of intervention
:32:00. > :32:06.that the United States could approach. One was direct military
:32:06. > :32:10.intervention. Sort of like in the Libyan case, with direct attacks on
:32:10. > :32:14.the Syrian military structure. That can be done in different ways,
:32:14. > :32:19.different tactics and so on, but the core of it would be direct
:32:19. > :32:24.attacks on the Syrian military. The second way in more plausible ways
:32:24. > :32:28.to me was indirect intervention. That is providing arms, training,
:32:28. > :32:34.intelligence, organisational help, all those kinds of things to the
:32:34. > :32:39.armed Syrian opposition. The groups that are fighting in Syria.
:32:39. > :32:44.Basically we had those two kinds of options, direct intervention,
:32:44. > :32:48.indirect intervention. Thinking of the opposition, the main opposition
:32:48. > :32:51.leader indicating that he would be happy to talk to officials of the
:32:51. > :32:59.Assad regime, with some conditions, it should be said. How significant
:32:59. > :33:03.do you think that is? Not very. One thing we have learned in the course
:33:03. > :33:06.of the war is the Syrian opposition doesn't speak with one voice. There
:33:06. > :33:11.is criticism of him for making that kind of statement or approach,
:33:11. > :33:16.whatever. In addition to that, the notion of a negotiated peace
:33:16. > :33:21.settlement is just nonsense at this point. The regime's response to the
:33:21. > :33:25.uprising, the peaceful uprising was brute force. And brute force has
:33:25. > :33:30.dominated the conflict ever since. And that's the way this conflict is
:33:30. > :33:33.going to be settled, is by brute force. Whoever can mass the most
:33:34. > :33:40.military power, and be most effective on the battlefield will
:33:41. > :33:46.win this war. Thank you.
:33:46. > :33:54.Perhaps you popped out earlier this evening and entered a Polski skep
:33:54. > :33:59.skep, they can't touch skrb skel, they can't -- skelp they can't
:33:59. > :34:03.touch you for it. A new census might have suspected what your ears
:34:03. > :34:08.have detected for a long time. Polish is the second most common
:34:08. > :34:18.language in England and Wales. We went out to talk Polish with
:34:18. > :34:57.
:34:57. > :35:06.speakers of those languages and in I'm Bangladesh and my brother is
:35:06. > :35:16.Bengali, my child talks Bengali, my childlikes English. In this country
:35:16. > :35:16.
:35:16. > :36:48.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 92 seconds
:36:48. > :36:58.everything is English, doctor, Plos and thank you, the most
:36:58. > :37:08.important -- please and thank you, the most important English.
:37:08. > :37:19.
:37:19. > :37:25.I want to speak proper English, my Well besides being fantastic news
:37:25. > :37:30.for subtitlers, what else should we make of it. We have an academic and
:37:30. > :37:33.linguist with us, and an English Noelist and playwright from a
:37:33. > :37:38.Romany background. What sort of influence will all these Polish
:37:38. > :37:43.speakers have on the way English is spoken? It really depends on how
:37:43. > :37:49.much impact they make. I don't have the privilege of Polish groceries
:37:49. > :37:57.in my neighbourhood, perhaps if I don't. Skelp is the word you want
:37:57. > :38:00.to look for. For me, Polish is associated with things like
:38:00. > :38:04.solidarnish. That dates you? dates me indeed. The point is,
:38:04. > :38:09.there has to be something going on in that language, and then people
:38:09. > :38:13.will pick up words from it. I'm a curious, if a lot of Polish people
:38:13. > :38:17.are learning English, which you might expect them to, if English
:38:17. > :38:23.people aren't picking up any Polish, where is the cross-fertilisation?
:38:23. > :38:25.It certainly doesn't work the other way round. In my field, novel
:38:25. > :38:28.writing, it is tremenduously to our advantage that the rest of the
:38:28. > :38:32.world is interested in fiction in English, and it doesn't work the
:38:32. > :38:35.other way round. Countries like Germany, Sweden, a lot of the
:38:35. > :38:41.Scandinavian countries, something like 40% of their fiction is read
:38:41. > :38:46.in translation. In this country we read, I think, between 2-4% of our
:38:46. > :38:50.fiction in translation. In America it is 1-2%. You don't need to be a
:38:50. > :38:54.rocket scientist to work out that is a huge advantage to novelists
:38:54. > :38:57.writing in the English language. We get, or theed over the world and
:38:57. > :39:02.get translated into umpteen language, we have the opportunity
:39:02. > :39:05.to travel and to spread the culture of English fiction or fiction in
:39:05. > :39:09.the English language, all over the world. I think it is to our
:39:09. > :39:14.detriment that it doesn't work the other way round. If you think of
:39:14. > :39:20.how many fantastic novelists there are in other language, that English
:39:20. > :39:27.readers are look missing out on because we are poor at translating
:39:27. > :39:32.languages. Are you trying to save languages? Its all about morale, to
:39:32. > :39:38.make people value them, if they value them they are more likely to
:39:38. > :39:41.speak it. That is the strategy of language saving is. You need to
:39:41. > :39:46.make people want to speak it, before everyone who could teach it
:39:46. > :39:50.to them has gone away. What will happen, leaving aside Polish, but
:39:50. > :39:54.more minority languages in this country, aren't they just going to
:39:54. > :39:57.speak English as the generations go on? I don't know about that. We
:39:57. > :40:02.have already seen a slight maligning of Welsh, since in the
:40:02. > :40:05.significant, which came out in the census, Welsh is still bigger than
:40:05. > :40:09.Polish as a language within England and Wales, as it was mentioned.
:40:09. > :40:13.Those things are going on. In fact, there has been quite a change in
:40:13. > :40:17.morale, one could saying, generally, among the smaller languages of the
:40:17. > :40:22.world, as far as I'm in touch with them. Not only do those people feel
:40:22. > :40:27.that they are being given a chance, and that people are concerned about
:40:27. > :40:30.them, it impacts on a small community of people coming in and
:40:30. > :40:36.saying we are interested that you are speaking this language, what is
:40:36. > :40:41.it like. It is also the case, if you speak to English people, and
:40:41. > :40:44.people are much less likely to be puzzled by the very idea of an
:40:45. > :40:49.endangered language. How much is English going to be influenced by
:40:49. > :40:53.all the languages that prevail in this country now? It depends what
:40:53. > :40:59.happens t might be the case that there is some comedy show that gets
:40:59. > :41:04.established with Poles in a Polish grocery, and all sorts of other
:41:04. > :41:08.things, like spacemen coming into it, something that makes it
:41:08. > :41:11.distinctive. Then you will find Polish expressions cropping up in
:41:11. > :41:16.popular English. It will take that, something like that, historically
:41:16. > :41:20.has there been much of that? Historically you find communities
:41:20. > :41:25.come in and talk their language to each oh when they have an effect on
:41:25. > :41:32.other people. The classic thing, we had this at the beginning here,
:41:32. > :41:37.with menus, could not be written nowadays, without using Turkish,
:41:38. > :41:41.Greek, various Indian languages, all of which have hundreds of
:41:41. > :41:46.thousands of speakers in this country. I wonder are from your
:41:46. > :41:50.experience, when people come here, do they always want to pass on
:41:50. > :41:54.their own language to their children? Is it inevitable?
:41:54. > :41:59.necessarily, we have think about the political and social
:41:59. > :42:02.sensitivites around language. For a lot of immigrant, certainly in
:42:02. > :42:07.previous generation, dropping the language they grew up in the
:42:07. > :42:17.country of their birth was about asimulation. You only have to look
:42:17. > :42:19.
:42:19. > :42:24.at movie stars like Rene Zellwegger, in the 1980 she would have to have
:42:24. > :42:30.been Jenny Johnson. Now we are happy with her name. From my
:42:30. > :42:34.father's background, with Romany ancestry, it was important not to
:42:34. > :42:38.speak his words of Romany dialect in public. You had to be careful,
:42:38. > :42:45.he didn't want people to know about his background. Did you get a sense
:42:45. > :42:50.of that growing up? Certain low. I have cousins of my generation who
:42:50. > :42:53.were taught the Romany, we weren't, my father was keen we would be
:42:54. > :42:57.educated and myself and brother and city to go on to higher education.
:42:57. > :43:01.We were the first generation of our family to do that. That was
:43:01. > :43:06.extremely important to him, and not clinging on to many cultural and
:43:06. > :43:14.social aspects of his ancestry, including language, was extreme low
:43:14. > :43:20.important to him. I hope that is different now and there is a sense
:43:20. > :43:26.of national pride. In Romany Europe they have 160 groups speaking many
:43:26. > :43:30.dialects, not all mutually Intelable. It is politically --
:43:30. > :43:40.Intelable, it is politically sensitive. When should a language
:43:40. > :43:40.
:43:40. > :43:45.be allowed to die? It has a rank oder want to go generalise in this
:43:45. > :43:49.sort of thing. -- wanting to generalise in this sort of thing.
:43:49. > :43:52.Every language and community is related to the communities in
:43:52. > :43:57.several ways. There is no point in being sentimental, there may be
:43:57. > :44:03.times when you have to suppress your own language in order to
:44:03. > :44:08.survive as a community. Which language is in danger in your point
:44:08. > :44:12.of view? The language in greatest dang, which has the lowest morale.
:44:12. > :44:17.So Romany might be one such language. Can I just come in there
:44:17. > :44:24.with a little scepticism about the articles in the press. It claimed
:44:24. > :44:29.that 629 people speak Romany, there is between 80,000-120,000 people
:44:29. > :44:39.who speak it? A mixed version of Romany, that sort of thing.
:44:39. > :44:39.
:44:39. > :45:24.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 92 seconds
:45:24. > :45:30.appreciate you both coming in. Now Some news just in, the singer
:45:30. > :45:35.Beyonce has admitted she did sing along to a pre-recorded track at
:45:35. > :45:41.President Obama's inauguration. That is all for us, apart from
:45:41. > :45:48.saying goodbye to the last surviving member of the Andrews'
:45:48. > :45:52.Sisters, Patti has died at the age of 94. Newsnight is not complete
:45:52. > :45:57.without boogie wooingy, here is some more.
:45:57. > :45:59.# Don't go walking down lovers' lane
:45:59. > :46:03.# No # Lover's lane
:46:03. > :46:06.# Until you see me # Until you see me ach marching
:46:06. > :46:16.home # Sit down under the apple tree
:46:16. > :46:26.
:46:26. > :46:31.# Baby just you and me A a wet night in the south, the
:46:31. > :46:34.rain moving away fairly smartly. Rain too across Scotland, hill snow,
:46:34. > :46:36.that will work into North West England, leaving behind clearer
:46:36. > :46:40.skies. That is the story for Northern Ireland as well. Come the
:46:40. > :46:44.afternoon, a rather damp one for the Manchester area. Further south,
:46:44. > :46:47.lots of sunshine, temperatures about where I would expect to see
:46:48. > :46:52.them. Fairly brisk winds across much of south-west England. That's
:46:52. > :46:56.that little change from recent days. But the sunshine will be quite
:46:56. > :47:00.pleasant, despite the breeze. Across Wales, a fair bid of cloud
:47:00. > :47:04.through the afternoon, clouding over to bring patchy outbreaks of
:47:04. > :47:08.rain. A dryer, brighter afternoon across Northern Ireland. Brisk
:47:08. > :47:14.winds coming in from a chilly direction, highs of around six or
:47:14. > :47:19.seven. A largely fine afternoon across much of Scotland. Light snow
:47:19. > :47:23.showers across Grampians, otherwise largely drive. A bit of a damp one,
:47:23. > :47:27.eventually in Manchester. Most places by Saturday brightening up,
:47:27. > :47:32.a crisp, although chilly day. Temperatures coming down three or
:47:32. > :47:36.four degrees in many place, a chilly wind to add into the mix.