25/02/2013

:00:11. > :00:12.He strongly denies all the He strongly denies all the

:00:12. > :00:13.He strongly denies all the allegations against him. It is a

:00:13. > :00:13.allegations against him. It is a allegations against him. It is a

:00:13. > :00:14.allegations against him. It is a line you will hear a lot in the

:00:14. > :00:15.line you will hear a lot in the line you will hear a lot in the

:00:16. > :00:16.course of tonight's programme. This course of tonight's programme. This

:00:16. > :00:18.course of tonight's programme. This evening we bring you, Berlusconi

:00:18. > :00:20.evening we bring you, Berlusconi evening we bring you, Berlusconi

:00:20. > :00:21.back from the brink. The Cardinal back from the brink. The Cardinal

:00:21. > :00:23.back from the brink. The Cardinal back from the brink. The Cardinal

:00:23. > :00:24.who quit. First up, crisis in the Clegg camp.

:00:24. > :00:26.Clegg camp. Clegg camp.

:00:26. > :00:29.The party President said today "we The party President said today "we

:00:29. > :00:30.The party President said today "we The party President said today "we

:00:30. > :00:32.screwed up", but who did and when? screwed up", but who did and when?

:00:32. > :00:35.screwed up", but who did and when? screwed up", but who did and when?

:00:35. > :00:36.The Lib Dem's deputy leader is to here explain.

:00:36. > :00:37.here explain. here explain.

:00:37. > :00:39.Feeling moody, our triple-A rate Feeling moody, our triple-A rate

:00:39. > :00:44.something gone, what difference something gone, what difference

:00:44. > :00:46.something gone, what difference does it make to Government's

:00:46. > :00:48.does it make to Government's does it make to Government's

:00:48. > :00:48.prospects. I know four different prospects. I know four different

:00:48. > :00:50.leadership challenges putting leadership challenges putting

:00:50. > :00:52.leadership challenges putting together, there is huge unrest in

:00:52. > :00:53.together, there is huge unrest in together, there is huge unrest in

:00:53. > :00:54.parliament. This is the enGeneva parliament. This is the enGeneva

:00:54. > :00:57.parliament. This is the enGeneva revolution in Kenya seeking to

:00:57. > :01:00.revolution in Kenya seeking to revolution in Kenya seeking to

:01:00. > :01:01.light up the entire continent. light up the entire continent.

:01:01. > :01:03.light up the entire continent. light up the entire continent.

:01:03. > :01:04.Could this be the force of the Could this be the force of the

:01:04. > :01:10.Could this be the force of the nature that electfies Africa in the

:01:10. > :01:12.21st century. 21st century.

:01:12. > :01:13.21st century. Good evening, "we screwed up", the

:01:13. > :01:14.Good evening, "we screwed up", the Good evening, "we screwed up", the

:01:14. > :01:15.Lib Dem President told the BBC Lib Dem President told the BBC

:01:15. > :01:17.Lib Dem President told the BBC today. In words his leader, Nick

:01:17. > :01:19.today. In words his leader, Nick today. In words his leader, Nick

:01:19. > :01:20.today. In words his leader, Nick Clegg be may or may not have found

:01:20. > :01:22.Clegg be may or may not have found particularly supportive. After

:01:23. > :01:24.particularly supportive. After particularly supportive. After

:01:24. > :01:25.women accused the former party women accused the former party

:01:25. > :01:27.chief executive of inappropriate chief executive of inappropriate

:01:27. > :01:28.chief executive of inappropriate behaviour. The questions why no-one

:01:28. > :01:29.behaviour. The questions why no-one behaviour. The questions why no-one

:01:29. > :01:31.reacted today what they were told reacted today what they were told

:01:31. > :01:32.reacted today what they were told over a series of years. Scotland

:01:32. > :01:33.over a series of years. Scotland over a series of years. Scotland

:01:33. > :01:35.Yard tonight are looking at whether Yard tonight are looking at whether

:01:35. > :01:36.Yard tonight are looking at whether or not any criminal activity took

:01:36. > :01:37.or not any criminal activity took or not any criminal activity took

:01:37. > :01:39.place. The Liberal Democrats have place. The Liberal Democrats have

:01:39. > :01:40.place. The Liberal Democrats have launched not one but two inquiries,

:01:40. > :01:41.launched not one but two inquiries, launched not one but two inquiries,

:01:41. > :01:46.days before one of the most days before one of the most

:01:46. > :01:47.seriously fought by-elections in seriously fought by-elections in

:01:47. > :01:49.seriously fought by-elections in years. The timing couldn't be worse,

:01:49. > :01:50.years. The timing couldn't be worse, years. The timing couldn't be worse,

:01:50. > :01:51.Nick Clegg's party was strolling Nick Clegg's party was strolling

:01:51. > :01:52.Nick Clegg's party was strolling towards victory in Eastleigh, now

:01:52. > :01:53.towards victory in Eastleigh, now they are investigating allegations

:01:53. > :01:54.they are investigating allegations they are investigating allegations

:01:54. > :01:55.of sexual misconduct against a man of sexual misconduct against a man

:01:55. > :01:56.of sexual misconduct against a man of sexual misconduct against a man

:01:56. > :01:58.who was once part of their inner who was once part of their inner

:01:58. > :01:59.who was once part of their inner who was once part of their inner

:01:59. > :02:00.circle. We screwed this up, as a circle. We screwed this up, as a

:02:00. > :02:01.circle. We screwed this up, as a party. There are individuals out

:02:01. > :02:02.party. There are individuals out party. There are individuals out

:02:02. > :02:04.party. There are individuals out there who we had a duty of care

:02:04. > :02:04.there who we had a duty of care there who we had a duty of care

:02:04. > :02:06.there who we had a duty of care towards who we did not fulfil that

:02:06. > :02:07.towards who we did not fulfil that towards who we did not fulfil that

:02:07. > :02:09.towards who we did not fulfil that duty of air to them. Lord Rennard,

:02:09. > :02:11.duty of air to them. Lord Rennard, duty of air to them. Lord Rennard,

:02:11. > :02:13.around whom the allegations centre, around whom the allegations centre,

:02:14. > :02:15.strongly disputes the charpblgts, strongly disputes the charpblgts,

:02:15. > :02:16.strongly disputes the charpblgts, strongly disputes the charpblgts,

:02:16. > :02:17.and says not a -- charges, and says and says not a -- charges, and says

:02:17. > :02:19.and says not a -- charges, and says not a single complaint of

:02:19. > :02:21.not a single complaint of not a single complaint of

:02:21. > :02:22.misconduct was made. And Friday he misconduct was made. And Friday he

:02:22. > :02:24.misconduct was made. And Friday he said that he denied any allegation

:02:25. > :02:26.said that he denied any allegation said that he denied any allegation

:02:26. > :02:27.of improper touching. It was here of improper touching. It was here

:02:27. > :02:29.of improper touching. It was here at the party's former headquarters

:02:29. > :02:30.at the party's former headquarters at the party's former headquarters

:02:30. > :02:30.that Lord Rennard masterminded the that Lord Rennard masterminded the

:02:30. > :02:31.that Lord Rennard masterminded the string of by-election victories won

:02:32. > :02:33.string of by-election victories won string of by-election victories won

:02:33. > :02:34.string of by-election victories won by the Lib Dems over their decades

:02:34. > :02:35.by the Lib Dems over their decades by the Lib Dems over their decades

:02:35. > :02:36.in the wilderness. Senior figures in the wilderness. Senior figures

:02:36. > :02:37.in the wilderness. Senior figures in the wilderness. Senior figures

:02:37. > :02:38.who have worked with him for years who have worked with him for years

:02:38. > :02:40.who have worked with him for years have reacted with shock at the

:02:40. > :02:41.have reacted with shock at the allegations. But Newsnight has

:02:41. > :02:42.allegations. But Newsnight has allegations. But Newsnight has

:02:42. > :02:46.learned that one senior figure did learned that one senior figure did

:02:46. > :02:47.try to take action. try to take action.

:02:47. > :02:49.try to take action. Sources have told Newsnight that as

:02:49. > :02:51.Sources have told Newsnight that as Sources have told Newsnight that as

:02:51. > :02:53.Sources have told Newsnight that as a senior a figure as the then party

:02:53. > :02:54.a senior a figure as the then party a senior a figure as the then party

:02:54. > :02:55.President Ros Scott, learned there President Ros Scott, learned there

:02:55. > :02:56.President Ros Scott, learned there was an issue with Lord Rennard's

:02:56. > :02:57.was an issue with Lord Rennard's was an issue with Lord Rennard's

:02:57. > :02:58.was an issue with Lord Rennard's conduct, and she did try to do

:02:58. > :02:59.conduct, and she did try to do conduct, and she did try to do

:02:59. > :03:00.something about it. What is not something about it. What is not

:03:00. > :03:01.something about it. What is not known is whether Ros Scott was

:03:01. > :03:03.known is whether Ros Scott was known is whether Ros Scott was

:03:03. > :03:05.known is whether Ros Scott was listened to by the rest of her

:03:05. > :03:08.listened to by the rest of her listened to by the rest of her

:03:08. > :03:08.party. Last week Channel 4 News party. Last week Channel 4 News

:03:09. > :03:11.broadcast specific allegations broadcast specific allegations

:03:11. > :03:12.broadcast specific allegations against Lord Rennard. In 2003, a

:03:12. > :03:15.against Lord Rennard. In 2003, a against Lord Rennard. In 2003, a

:03:15. > :03:16.woman, a former adviser to Nick woman, a former adviser to Nick

:03:17. > :03:18.woman, a former adviser to Nick woman, a former adviser to Nick

:03:18. > :03:21.Clegg, said that he behaved in an Clegg, said that he behaved in an

:03:21. > :03:22.inappropriate manner to him. inappropriate manner to him.

:03:22. > :03:23.Alison Smith reported inappropriate Alison Smith reported inappropriate

:03:24. > :03:25.Alison Smith reported inappropriate Alison Smith reported inappropriate

:03:25. > :03:27.behaviour in 2007 to the then Chief behaviour in 2007 to the then Chief

:03:27. > :03:29.behaviour in 2007 to the then Chief Whip, Paul Burstow, and the party

:03:29. > :03:30.Whip, Paul Burstow, and the party Whip, Paul Burstow, and the party

:03:30. > :03:31.spokeswoman for equality and women, spokeswoman for equality and women,

:03:32. > :03:34.spokeswoman for equality and women, she, Alison Smith, said no action

:03:34. > :03:34.she, Alison Smith, said no action she, Alison Smith, said no action

:03:34. > :03:36.was taken. Following Channel 4 was taken. Following Channel 4

:03:36. > :03:37.was taken. Following Channel 4 News's report, the Lib Dems said

:03:37. > :03:38.News's report, the Lib Dems said News's report, the Lib Dems said

:03:38. > :03:39.News's report, the Lib Dems said the first Nick Clegg knew of the

:03:39. > :03:40.the first Nick Clegg knew of the allegation was after the

:03:40. > :03:42.allegation was after the broadcaster contacted the party.

:03:42. > :03:45.broadcaster contacted the party. broadcaster contacted the party.

:03:45. > :03:46.Last night the Lib Dem leader Last night the Lib Dem leader

:03:46. > :03:48.Last night the Lib Dem leader clarified that in 2008 Nick Clegg

:03:48. > :03:49.clarified that in 2008 Nick Clegg clarified that in 2008 Nick Clegg

:03:49. > :03:51.asked his then Chief of Staff, asked his then Chief of Staff,

:03:51. > :03:52.asked his then Chief of Staff, Danny Alexander, to put indirect

:03:52. > :03:54.Danny Alexander, to put indirect Danny Alexander, to put indirect

:03:54. > :03:56.and non-specific concerns to Lord and non-specific concerns to Lord

:03:56. > :03:57.and non-specific concerns to Lord Rennard. In 2010 the Telegraph

:03:57. > :04:00.Rennard. In 2010 the Telegraph Rennard. In 2010 the Telegraph

:04:00. > :04:02.contacted Nick Clegg's Chief of contacted Nick Clegg's Chief of

:04:02. > :04:04.contacted Nick Clegg's Chief of Staff, Jonny Oates about five

:04:04. > :04:05.Staff, Jonny Oates about five allegations against Lord Rennard,

:04:05. > :04:07.allegations against Lord Rennard, allegations against Lord Rennard,

:04:07. > :04:08.Oates denies Nick Clegg was made Oates denies Nick Clegg was made

:04:08. > :04:09.Oates denies Nick Clegg was made aware of the allegations. This

:04:09. > :04:11.aware of the allegations. This aware of the allegations. This

:04:11. > :04:13.aware of the allegations. This morning the Lib Dem leader was on

:04:13. > :04:15.morning the Lib Dem leader was on morning the Lib Dem leader was on

:04:15. > :04:18.the defensive. Here at dawn at the defensive. Here at dawn at

:04:18. > :04:19.the defensive. Here at dawn at Radio Solent. Until last week, no

:04:19. > :04:21.Radio Solent. Until last week, no Radio Solent. Until last week, no

:04:21. > :04:23.very specific allegations were put very specific allegations were put

:04:23. > :04:24.very specific allegations were put very specific allegations were put

:04:24. > :04:25.to me. We acted on general concerns to me. We acted on general concerns

:04:25. > :04:27.to me. We acted on general concerns which had been expressed some time

:04:27. > :04:29.which had been expressed some time which had been expressed some time

:04:29. > :04:30.which had been expressed some time ago. But, of course, now that those

:04:30. > :04:31.ago. But, of course, now that those ago. But, of course, now that those

:04:31. > :04:32.general concerns have evolved into general concerns have evolved into

:04:32. > :04:33.general concerns have evolved into specific allegations, we can act

:04:33. > :04:34.specific allegations, we can act specific allegations, we can act

:04:34. > :04:35.specific allegations, we can act and we will. Alison Smith was one

:04:36. > :04:37.and we will. Alison Smith was one and we will. Alison Smith was one

:04:37. > :04:38.of the women who made allegations of the women who made allegations

:04:38. > :04:39.of the women who made allegations of the women who made allegations

:04:39. > :04:41.to Channel 4 News. A former party to Channel 4 News. A former party

:04:41. > :04:43.to Channel 4 News. A former party activist, she now teaches at Oxford

:04:43. > :04:44.activist, she now teaches at Oxford activist, she now teaches at Oxford

:04:44. > :04:45.University. What would she say to University. What would she say to

:04:45. > :04:46.University. What would she say to students considering a life in

:04:46. > :04:47.students considering a life in students considering a life in

:04:47. > :04:48.politics. Just describe what you politics. Just describe what you

:04:48. > :04:50.politics. Just describe what you politics. Just describe what you

:04:50. > :04:50.think you would say to them right think you would say to them right

:04:50. > :04:54.think you would say to them right now, if nothing was done about

:04:54. > :04:55.now, if nothing was done about now, if nothing was done about

:04:55. > :04:56.going into work in the Liberal going into work in the Liberal

:04:56. > :04:57.going into work in the Liberal Democrats? First I would have to

:04:57. > :04:58.Democrats? First I would have to Democrats? First I would have to

:04:58. > :04:58.Democrats? First I would have to ask if they were sure, if nothing

:04:58. > :04:59.ask if they were sure, if nothing ask if they were sure, if nothing

:04:59. > :05:00.ask if they were sure, if nothing is done. I would have to actually

:05:00. > :05:01.is done. I would have to actually is done. I would have to actually

:05:01. > :05:02.is done. I would have to actually tell them exactly what I had come

:05:02. > :05:03.tell them exactly what I had come tell them exactly what I had come

:05:03. > :05:06.tell them exactly what I had come up against, and what other people I

:05:06. > :05:07.up against, and what other people I up against, and what other people I

:05:07. > :05:08.know came up against. But I'm know came up against. But I'm

:05:08. > :05:09.know came up against. But I'm hoping something will be done. I

:05:10. > :05:11.hoping something will be done. I hoping something will be done. I

:05:11. > :05:13.think you can see very slowly think you can see very slowly

:05:13. > :05:14.think you can see very slowly think you can see very slowly

:05:14. > :05:14.things at the top of the party, things at the top of the party,

:05:14. > :05:15.things at the top of the party, there is definitely things changing,

:05:15. > :05:17.there is definitely things changing, there is definitely things changing,

:05:17. > :05:19.there is some movement, I think there is some movement, I think

:05:19. > :05:21.there is some movement, I think there. To fight a by-election,

:05:21. > :05:22.there. To fight a by-election, there. To fight a by-election,

:05:22. > :05:22.Rennard's insight was known as Rennard's insight was known as

:05:22. > :05:23.pavement politics within pavement politics within

:05:23. > :05:25.pavement politics within Westminster. Flood an area with a

:05:25. > :05:27.Westminster. Flood an area with a Westminster. Flood an area with a

:05:27. > :05:28.huge number of resources and huge number of resources and

:05:28. > :05:30.huge number of resources and activists for a longer, or

:05:30. > :05:31.activists for a longer, or activists for a longer, or

:05:31. > :05:32.relentless period of time than your relentless period of time than your

:05:32. > :05:33.relentless period of time than your opponents. It was very often

:05:33. > :05:35.opponents. It was very often opponents. It was very often

:05:35. > :05:36.successful. It would have a bitter successful. It would have a bitter

:05:36. > :05:37.successful. It would have a bitter successful. It would have a bitter

:05:38. > :05:38.sweet symmetry, if the man who for sweet symmetry, if the man who for

:05:38. > :05:40.sweet symmetry, if the man who for sweet symmetry, if the man who for

:05:40. > :05:42.so long was the Lib Dem's by- so long was the Lib Dem's by-

:05:42. > :05:43.election brain, ended up election brain, ended up

:05:43. > :05:44.overturning their by-election in overturning their by-election in

:05:44. > :05:45.overturning their by-election in overturning their by-election in

:05:45. > :05:46.the seat of eastly the Lib Dems had the seat of eastly the Lib Dems had

:05:46. > :05:47.the seat of eastly the Lib Dems had the seat of eastly the Lib Dems had

:05:47. > :05:48.been set to hold the seat, now both been set to hold the seat, now both

:05:48. > :05:49.been set to hold the seat, now both been set to hold the seat, now both

:05:49. > :05:51.sides agree it will be tighter. sides agree it will be tighter.

:05:51. > :05:53.sides agree it will be tighter. is extremely difficult to say how

:05:53. > :05:54.is extremely difficult to say how is extremely difficult to say how

:05:54. > :05:55.crucially important he was, nobody crucially important he was, nobody

:05:55. > :05:57.is ultimately irreplacable. But is ultimately irreplacable. But

:05:57. > :05:59.certainly, the Liberal Democrats certainly, the Liberal Democrats

:05:59. > :06:01.certainly, the Liberal Democrats would have wanted to retain Chris

:06:01. > :06:01.would have wanted to retain Chris would have wanted to retain Chris

:06:01. > :06:02.Rennard. He's respected, even if Rennard. He's respected, even if

:06:02. > :06:03.Rennard. He's respected, even if he's not a household name, he's

:06:03. > :06:04.he's not a household name, he's he's not a household name, he's

:06:04. > :06:06.respected in the Westminster bubble respected in the Westminster bubble

:06:06. > :06:07.respected in the Westminster bubble as one of the greatest campaigners

:06:07. > :06:10.as one of the greatest campaigners as one of the greatest campaigners

:06:10. > :06:10.of recent times. You don't kick of recent times. You don't kick

:06:11. > :06:12.of recent times. You don't kick somebody like that out of the

:06:12. > :06:12.somebody like that out of the Liberal Democrats without thinking

:06:12. > :06:14.Liberal Democrats without thinking Liberal Democrats without thinking

:06:14. > :06:15.Liberal Democrats without thinking about it long and very hard indeed.

:06:16. > :06:16.about it long and very hard indeed. about it long and very hard indeed.

:06:16. > :06:17.about it long and very hard indeed. Lord Rennard was not kicked out. He

:06:18. > :06:18.Lord Rennard was not kicked out. He Lord Rennard was not kicked out. He

:06:18. > :06:20.Lord Rennard was not kicked out. He left his role on account of ill-

:06:20. > :06:21.left his role on account of ill- left his role on account of ill-

:06:21. > :06:22.health. But those laying their health. But those laying their

:06:22. > :06:24.health. But those laying their allegations say there is a wider

:06:24. > :06:25.allegations say there is a wider problem within the Liberal

:06:25. > :06:27.problem within the Liberal Democrats. This culture is

:06:27. > :06:28.Democrats. This culture is Democrats. This culture is

:06:28. > :06:29.absolutely intolerable. For a start, absolutely intolerable. For a start,

:06:29. > :06:30.absolutely intolerable. For a start, absolutely intolerable. For a start,

:06:30. > :06:30.it is going beyond the pat on the it is going beyond the pat on the

:06:31. > :06:31.it is going beyond the pat on the it is going beyond the pat on the

:06:31. > :06:32.it is going beyond the pat on the knee a lot of the time. Even if it

:06:32. > :06:33.knee a lot of the time. Even if it knee a lot of the time. Even if it

:06:33. > :06:35.knee a lot of the time. Even if it was just a pat on the knee, who

:06:35. > :06:36.was just a pat on the knee, who was just a pat on the knee, who

:06:36. > :06:37.gets to decide what's an acceptable gets to decide what's an acceptable

:06:38. > :06:39.gets to decide what's an acceptable advance and what is not an

:06:39. > :06:40.advance and what is not an acceptable advance. The power

:06:40. > :06:41.acceptable advance. The power acceptable advance. The power

:06:41. > :06:42.dynamics in these situations are dynamics in these situations are

:06:42. > :06:44.dynamics in these situations are quite scary. The Liberal Democrats

:06:45. > :06:46.quite scary. The Liberal Democrats quite scary. The Liberal Democrats

:06:46. > :06:47.have a prowess for bagging by- have a prowess for bagging by-

:06:47. > :06:48.have a prowess for bagging by- elections. And they claim it is

:06:48. > :06:49.elections. And they claim it is elections. And they claim it is

:06:49. > :06:51.their party that without fail their party that without fail

:06:51. > :06:52.their party that without fail speaks up for the ignored. This

:06:52. > :06:53.speaks up for the ignored. This speaks up for the ignored. This

:06:53. > :06:57.week they are grappling to retain week they are grappling to retain

:06:57. > :06:58.week they are grappling to retain week they are grappling to retain

:06:58. > :07:00.both badges of honour. The Lib Dem both badges of honour. The Lib Dem

:07:00. > :07:01.both badges of honour. The Lib Dem deputy leader, Simon Hughes, joins

:07:01. > :07:01.deputy leader, Simon Hughes, joins deputy leader, Simon Hughes, joins

:07:01. > :07:02.deputy leader, Simon Hughes, joins me now. Thank you very much for

:07:02. > :07:03.me now. Thank you very much for me now. Thank you very much for

:07:03. > :07:04.me now. Thank you very much for coming in Simon. I want to start

:07:04. > :07:05.coming in Simon. I want to start coming in Simon. I want to start

:07:05. > :07:07.with a report in the Telegraph with a report in the Telegraph

:07:07. > :07:08.with a report in the Telegraph with a report in the Telegraph

:07:08. > :07:09.tomorrow morning, it is from one of tomorrow morning, it is from one of

:07:09. > :07:11.tomorrow morning, it is from one of your own councillors in Southwark,

:07:11. > :07:13.your own councillors in Southwark, your own councillors in Southwark,

:07:13. > :07:14.who made a complaint in 2008, who made a complaint in 2008,

:07:14. > :07:15.allegations of improper behaviour allegations of improper behaviour

:07:15. > :07:17.allegations of improper behaviour by Lord Rennard. Two months later,

:07:17. > :07:18.by Lord Rennard. Two months later, by Lord Rennard. Two months later,

:07:18. > :07:20.by Lord Rennard. Two months later, when she was pregnant, she was told

:07:20. > :07:21.when she was pregnant, she was told when she was pregnant, she was told

:07:22. > :07:24.her John was disappearing and she, her John was disappearing and she,

:07:24. > :07:25.her John was disappearing and she, her John was disappearing and she,

:07:25. > :07:26.as we understand, came to a setment, as we understand, came to a setment,

:07:26. > :07:27.as we understand, came to a setment, including a silence clause. What do

:07:27. > :07:28.including a silence clause. What do including a silence clause. What do

:07:28. > :07:29.you -- a settlement, including a you -- a settlement, including a

:07:29. > :07:30.you -- a settlement, including a silence clause. What do you

:07:30. > :07:31.silence clause. What do you silence clause. What do you

:07:31. > :07:32.understand of that? I have heard understand of that? I have heard

:07:32. > :07:33.understand of that? I have heard understand of that? I have heard

:07:33. > :07:34.nothing of it until what you have nothing of it until what you have

:07:34. > :07:34.nothing of it until what you have nothing of it until what you have

:07:34. > :07:35.just read to me. You have never just read to me. You have never

:07:35. > :07:36.just read to me. You have never heard about somebody who was

:07:36. > :07:37.heard about somebody who was heard about somebody who was

:07:37. > :07:38.heard about somebody who was working for the Lib Dems, signing a

:07:38. > :07:39.working for the Lib Dems, signing a working for the Lib Dems, signing a

:07:39. > :07:40.silence clause to not repeat silence clause to not repeat

:07:40. > :07:41.silence clause to not repeat allegations. This is news to you?

:07:41. > :07:42.allegations. This is news to you? allegations. This is news to you?

:07:42. > :07:43.allegations. This is news to you? This is news to me. This is from

:07:44. > :07:44.This is news to me. This is from This is news to me. This is from

:07:44. > :07:45.the Telegraph, this happened in the Telegraph, this happened in

:07:45. > :07:46.the Telegraph, this happened in the Telegraph, this happened in

:07:46. > :07:47.2008? That's news to me. I knew 2008? That's news to me. I knew

:07:47. > :07:48.2008? That's news to me. I knew 2008? That's news to me. I knew

:07:49. > :07:49.nothing about it at all. I served, nothing about it at all. I served,

:07:49. > :07:50.nothing about it at all. I served, nothing about it at all. I served,

:07:50. > :07:52.as you may remember, for four years as you may remember, for four years

:07:52. > :07:53.as you may remember, for four years as you may remember, for four years

:07:53. > :07:56.and a bit as party President, I can and a bit as party President, I can

:07:56. > :07:57.and a bit as party President, I can and a bit as party President, I can

:07:57. > :07:59.say, cat -- Party President, I can say, cat -- Party President, I can

:07:59. > :08:00.say, cat -- Party President, I can say categorically that no formal or

:08:00. > :08:01.say categorically that no formal or say categorically that no formal or

:08:01. > :08:06.informal allegation, no rumour or informal allegation, no rumour or

:08:06. > :08:08.informal allegation, no rumour or report reached me about the length

:08:08. > :08:09.report reached me about the length report reached me about the length

:08:09. > :08:10.report reached me about the length of those four, plus years, and I

:08:10. > :08:10.of those four, plus years, and I of those four, plus years, and I

:08:10. > :08:11.of those four, plus years, and I heard nothing that said this was an

:08:11. > :08:13.heard nothing that said this was an heard nothing that said this was an

:08:13. > :08:15.heard nothing that said this was an issue for an individual in the part.

:08:15. > :08:16.issue for an individual in the part. issue for an individual in the part.

:08:16. > :08:18.Tim Farron, the Lib Dem President Tim Farron, the Lib Dem President

:08:18. > :08:19.Tim Farron, the Lib Dem President today said "we screwed up" who

:08:19. > :08:20.today said "we screwed up" who today said "we screwed up" who

:08:20. > :08:21.today said "we screwed up" who screwed up? I think that is an

:08:21. > :08:23.screwed up? I think that is an screwed up? I think that is an

:08:23. > :08:25.unfair conclusion to reach given we unfair conclusion to reach given we

:08:25. > :08:26.have launched two investigations. have launched two investigations.

:08:26. > :08:28.have launched two investigations. He's entitled to choose his own

:08:28. > :08:30.He's entitled to choose his own language, but immediately the

:08:30. > :08:31.language, but immediately the language, but immediately the

:08:31. > :08:32.allegations were put to a allegations were put to a

:08:32. > :08:33.allegations were put to a television channel and put to the

:08:33. > :08:34.television channel and put to the television channel and put to the

:08:34. > :08:35.television channel and put to the party. That was the first time I

:08:35. > :08:36.party. That was the first time I party. That was the first time I

:08:36. > :08:37.heard about them, and the first heard about them, and the first

:08:37. > :08:38.heard about them, and the first time Nick Clegg heard about them.

:08:38. > :08:41.time Nick Clegg heard about them. Immediately that happened two

:08:41. > :08:42.Immediately that happened two inquiries were launched. An

:08:42. > :08:44.inquiries were launched. An inquiries were launched. An

:08:44. > :08:46.internal inquiry, which will have a internal inquiry, which will have a

:08:46. > :08:46.internal inquiry, which will have a internal inquiry, which will have a

:08:46. > :08:50.QC leading it. A very eminent QC QC leading it. A very eminent QC

:08:50. > :08:51.looking at the allegations. looking at the allegations.

:08:51. > :08:52.looking at the allegations. Listening to the complaints, and

:08:52. > :08:54.Listening to the complaints, and Listening to the complaints, and

:08:54. > :08:56.listening to the defendant. In a listening to the defendant. In a

:08:56. > :08:57.second investigation, led second investigation, led

:08:57. > :08:59.entirelyly independently for the entirelyly independently for the

:08:59. > :09:00.entirelyly independently for the party, which is into our processes.

:09:00. > :09:02.party, which is into our processes. party, which is into our processes.

:09:02. > :09:03.What was he talking about "screwed What was he talking about "screwed

:09:03. > :09:04.What was he talking about "screwed up", was he talking about party

:09:04. > :09:05.up", was he talking about party up", was he talking about party

:09:05. > :09:07.leadership, Nick Clegg in that? Who leadership, Nick Clegg in that? Who

:09:07. > :09:09.leadership, Nick Clegg in that? Who screwed up? I heard the same

:09:09. > :09:12.screwed up? I heard the same screwed up? I heard the same

:09:12. > :09:13.interview as you did. He clearly interview as you did. He clearly

:09:13. > :09:15.interview as you did. He clearly feels that an allegation made about

:09:15. > :09:15.feels that an allegation made about feels that an allegation made about

:09:16. > :09:16.feels that an allegation made about an event in 2003 before Nick Clegg

:09:16. > :09:18.an event in 2003 before Nick Clegg an event in 2003 before Nick Clegg

:09:18. > :09:19.was leader, before he was in was leader, before he was in

:09:19. > :09:21.was leader, before he was in parliament, and other things, were

:09:21. > :09:21.parliament, and other things, were parliament, and other things, were

:09:21. > :09:22.parliament, and other things, were not picked up somewhere at the time.

:09:22. > :09:23.not picked up somewhere at the time. not picked up somewhere at the time.

:09:23. > :09:25.not picked up somewhere at the time. There has clearly been a history of

:09:25. > :09:26.There has clearly been a history of There has clearly been a history of

:09:26. > :09:27.a few episodes reported by people a few episodes reported by people

:09:27. > :09:28.a few episodes reported by people like Alison Smith. I heard nothing

:09:28. > :09:30.like Alison Smith. I heard nothing like Alison Smith. I heard nothing

:09:30. > :09:31.like Alison Smith. I heard nothing about this until last week. If they

:09:31. > :09:33.about this until last week. If they about this until last week. If they

:09:33. > :09:34.were reported into the system, if were reported into the system, if

:09:34. > :09:35.were reported into the system, if they were, and if they weren't

:09:35. > :09:36.they were, and if they weren't they were, and if they weren't

:09:36. > :09:37.dealt with then clearly something dealt with then clearly something

:09:37. > :09:38.dealt with then clearly something dealt with then clearly something

:09:38. > :09:39.went wrong. That is why you have an went wrong. That is why you have an

:09:39. > :09:39.went wrong. That is why you have an went wrong. That is why you have an

:09:39. > :09:41.inquiry and seek to get to the inquiry and seek to get to the

:09:41. > :09:43.inquiry and seek to get to the inquiry and seek to get to the

:09:43. > :09:44.bottom of it. I'm not going to pre- bottom of it. I'm not going to pre-

:09:44. > :09:46.bottom of it. I'm not going to pre- bottom of it. I'm not going to pre-

:09:46. > :09:47.empt it. We have just been through empt it. We have just been through

:09:47. > :09:48.empt it. We have just been through the whole Leveson episode about

:09:48. > :09:48.the whole Leveson episode about the whole Leveson episode about

:09:49. > :09:49.whether press put names on the whether press put names on the

:09:49. > :09:51.whether press put names on the whether press put names on the

:09:51. > :09:52.front page and have a go and judge front page and have a go and judge

:09:52. > :09:53.front page and have a go and judge front page and have a go and judge

:09:53. > :09:55.and jury. We have a process, it is and jury. We have a process, it is

:09:55. > :09:55.and jury. We have a process, it is only fair both to the complainants

:09:55. > :09:56.only fair both to the complainants only fair both to the complainants

:09:56. > :09:57.and the person complained about and the person complained about

:09:57. > :09:58.and the person complained about that there is due process.

:09:58. > :10:00.that there is due process. that there is due process.

:10:00. > :10:01.that there is due process. haven't much time. I want to put to

:10:01. > :10:04.haven't much time. I want to put to haven't much time. I want to put to

:10:04. > :10:06.you a couple of things, Justin you a couple of things, Justin

:10:06. > :10:07.you a couple of things, Justin you a couple of things, Justin

:10:07. > :10:13.Jarod said this is not a Jimmy Jarod said this is not a Jimmy

:10:13. > :10:14.Savile thing, touching someone's Savile thing, touching someone's

:10:14. > :10:15.Savile thing, touching someone's knee overboard, pretty historic. Do

:10:15. > :10:16.knee overboard, pretty historic. Do knee overboard, pretty historic. Do

:10:16. > :10:18.knee overboard, pretty historic. Do you agree? I don't agree with that.

:10:18. > :10:20.you agree? I don't agree with that. Nobody should behave

:10:20. > :10:21.Nobody should behave inappropriately before their staff.

:10:21. > :10:24.inappropriately before their staff. inappropriately before their staff.

:10:24. > :10:26.inappropriately before their staff. One of your Lib Dem candidates has

:10:26. > :10:27.One of your Lib Dem candidates has One of your Lib Dem candidates has

:10:27. > :10:29.said that, is he representative of said that, is he representative of

:10:29. > :10:30.said that, is he representative of the modern party? No he's not.

:10:30. > :10:32.the modern party? No he's not. the modern party? No he's not.

:10:32. > :10:33.Should he be a candidate? Should he be a candidate?

:10:33. > :10:33.Should he be a candidate? separate issue. Possibly you think

:10:33. > :10:35.separate issue. Possibly you think separate issue. Possibly you think

:10:35. > :10:36.separate issue. Possibly you think he shouldn't if he says things like

:10:36. > :10:37.he shouldn't if he says things like he shouldn't if he says things like

:10:37. > :10:38.that? Employees in the party should that? Employees in the party should

:10:38. > :10:39.that? Employees in the party should that? Employees in the party should

:10:39. > :10:39.know they can go to work, senior know they can go to work, senior

:10:40. > :10:40.know they can go to work, senior know they can go to work, senior

:10:40. > :10:41.people in the party can deal with people in the party can deal with

:10:41. > :10:43.people in the party can deal with senior officers in the party

:10:43. > :10:44.senior officers in the party senior officers in the party

:10:44. > :10:45.without any fear of inappropriate without any fear of inappropriate

:10:45. > :10:45.behaviour either from their behaviour either from their

:10:45. > :10:47.behaviour either from their employers or senior members of the

:10:47. > :10:48.employers or senior members of the employers or senior members of the

:10:48. > :10:50.public. That clearly is wrong. It public. That clearly is wrong. It

:10:50. > :10:51.public. That clearly is wrong. It is unacceptable, in any walk of

:10:51. > :10:53.is unacceptable, in any walk of is unacceptable, in any walk of

:10:53. > :10:54.life, in any organisation, in this life, in any organisation, in this

:10:54. > :10:55.life, in any organisation, in this life, in any organisation, in this

:10:55. > :10:55.one, our party or any other party. one, our party or any other party.

:10:55. > :10:56.one, our party or any other party. one, our party or any other party.

:10:56. > :10:57.We are trying to get to the bottom, We are trying to get to the bottom,

:10:57. > :10:58.We are trying to get to the bottom, We are trying to get to the bottom,

:10:58. > :11:00.right now, of who knew and who right now, of who knew and who

:11:00. > :11:01.right now, of who knew and who right now, of who knew and who

:11:01. > :11:01.didn't know. Lax lax lax said last didn't know. Lax lax lax said last

:11:01. > :11:02.didn't know. Lax lax lax said last night, he said -- Danny Alexander

:11:02. > :11:03.night, he said -- Danny Alexander night, he said -- Danny Alexander

:11:04. > :11:04.night, he said -- Danny Alexander said last night, he said he put the

:11:04. > :11:05.said last night, he said he put the said last night, he said he put the

:11:05. > :11:07.concerns to Chris Rennard at the concerns to Chris Rennard at the

:11:07. > :11:09.concerns to Chris Rennard at the time, and warned him that such

:11:09. > :11:10.time, and warned him that such behaviour was unacceptable. Now

:11:10. > :11:11.behaviour was unacceptable. Now what behaviour was unacceptable,

:11:11. > :11:12.what behaviour was unacceptable, what behaviour was unacceptable,

:11:12. > :11:14.what was the behaviour that he what was the behaviour that he

:11:14. > :11:15.what was the behaviour that he warned about there? Let's be clear

:11:15. > :11:16.warned about there? Let's be clear warned about there? Let's be clear

:11:16. > :11:17.warned about there? Let's be clear about this. It is no good having

:11:17. > :11:18.about this. It is no good having about this. It is no good having

:11:18. > :11:18.inquiries and seeking to prejudge inquiries and seeking to prejudge

:11:18. > :11:19.inquiries and seeking to prejudge inquiries and seeking to prejudge

:11:19. > :11:22.it and me trying to tell you things it and me trying to tell you things

:11:22. > :11:25.it and me trying to tell you things it and me trying to tell you things

:11:25. > :11:26.I don't know about, because I knew I don't know about, because I knew

:11:26. > :11:27.I don't know about, because I knew I don't know about, because I knew

:11:27. > :11:29.nothing. All the things that I know nothing. All the things that I know

:11:29. > :11:30.nothing. All the things that I know appeared last week, one, that there

:11:30. > :11:31.appeared last week, one, that there were specific allegations made

:11:32. > :11:33.were specific allegations made recently, now being investigated.

:11:33. > :11:34.recently, now being investigated. recently, now being investigated.

:11:34. > :11:35.recently, now being investigated. And two, that five years ago a

:11:35. > :11:38.And two, that five years ago a And two, that five years ago a

:11:38. > :11:39.rumour or something like it reached rumour or something like it reached

:11:39. > :11:41.rumour or something like it reached the leaders's office. He asked the

:11:41. > :11:42.the leaders's office. He asked the the leaders's office. He asked the

:11:42. > :11:43.-- leader's office, he asked the -- leader's office, he asked the

:11:43. > :11:44.-- leader's office, he asked the -- leader's office, he asked the

:11:44. > :11:45.Chief of Staff to speak to the Chief of Staff to speak to the

:11:45. > :11:47.Chief of Staff to speak to the person about whom the rumour or

:11:47. > :11:49.person about whom the rumour or person about whom the rumour or

:11:49. > :11:50.allegation was made, not naming an allegation was made, not naming an

:11:50. > :11:51.allegation was made, not naming an allegation was made, not naming an

:11:51. > :11:52.and an event. He did that and was and an event. He did that and was

:11:52. > :11:53.and an event. He did that and was and an event. He did that and was

:11:53. > :11:54.told there was no truth in it as told there was no truth in it as

:11:54. > :11:56.told there was no truth in it as far as I understand it.

:11:56. > :11:59.far as I understand it. far as I understand it.

:11:59. > :12:00.Telegraph put five allegations of Telegraph put five allegations of

:12:00. > :12:01.incidents involving Chris Rennard. incidents involving Chris Rennard.

:12:01. > :12:01.incidents involving Chris Rennard. incidents involving Chris Rennard.

:12:01. > :12:03.We know that the story tomorrow is We know that the story tomorrow is

:12:03. > :12:04.We know that the story tomorrow is We know that the story tomorrow is

:12:04. > :12:05.just in the Telegraph and we must just in the Telegraph and we must

:12:05. > :12:06.just in the Telegraph and we must just in the Telegraph and we must

:12:06. > :12:08.say that. But we know that the say that. But we know that the

:12:08. > :12:09.say that. But we know that the Chief Whip, the Equalities Minister,

:12:09. > :12:10.Chief Whip, the Equalities Minister, Chief Whip, the Equalities Minister,

:12:10. > :12:11.Clegg's Chief of Staff, the former Clegg's Chief of Staff, the former

:12:12. > :12:12.Clegg's Chief of Staff, the former deputy Chief of Staff, the former

:12:13. > :12:14.deputy Chief of Staff, the former deputy Chief of Staff, the former

:12:14. > :12:15.Party President, from what we Party President, from what we

:12:15. > :12:17.Party President, from what we understand today, all knew. It

:12:17. > :12:18.understand today, all knew. It understand today, all knew. It

:12:18. > :12:19.wasn't a secret? Emily, we are wasn't a secret? Emily, we are

:12:19. > :12:20.wasn't a secret? Emily, we are having an investigation to discover

:12:20. > :12:22.having an investigation to discover having an investigation to discover

:12:22. > :12:23.who knew what. I'm telling you who knew what. I'm telling you

:12:23. > :12:25.who knew what. I'm telling you face-to-face I knew none of these

:12:25. > :12:25.face-to-face I knew none of these face-to-face I knew none of these

:12:25. > :12:26.face-to-face I knew none of these things. Do you find that odd, that

:12:26. > :12:27.things. Do you find that odd, that things. Do you find that odd, that

:12:27. > :12:28.things. Do you find that odd, that you were the President at the time,

:12:28. > :12:28.you were the President at the time, you were the President at the time,

:12:29. > :12:30.you were the President at the time, and all those senior Lib Dems knew

:12:30. > :12:32.and all those senior Lib Dems knew and all those senior Lib Dems knew

:12:32. > :12:34.and nobody told you? Find it and nobody told you? Find it

:12:34. > :12:35.and nobody told you? Find it strange if there was some regular

:12:35. > :12:37.strange if there was some regular and substantive complaint made

:12:37. > :12:37.and substantive complaint made and substantive complaint made

:12:37. > :12:38.about the chief executive, because about the chief executive, because

:12:38. > :12:39.about the chief executive, because the President on behalf of the

:12:40. > :12:41.the President on behalf of the the President on behalf of the

:12:41. > :12:42.party is the person that employs party is the person that employs

:12:42. > :12:43.party is the person that employs the chief executive. I find that

:12:44. > :12:44.the chief executive. I find that the chief executive. I find that

:12:44. > :12:46.odd. I'm not discounting the odd. I'm not discounting the

:12:46. > :12:47.odd. I'm not discounting the allegations made, but we have now

:12:47. > :12:48.allegations made, but we have now allegations made, but we have now

:12:48. > :12:49.allegations made, but we have now set up two processes, there is a

:12:49. > :12:50.set up two processes, there is a set up two processes, there is a

:12:50. > :12:51.whistle blowing process and a whistle blowing process and a

:12:51. > :12:53.whistle blowing process and a process looking into the party's

:12:53. > :12:54.process looking into the party's procedures and an independently-led

:12:54. > :12:55.procedures and an independently-led procedures and an independently-led

:12:55. > :12:56.procedures and an independently-led review. That must be the best way

:12:56. > :12:57.review. That must be the best way review. That must be the best way

:12:57. > :12:58.in everybody's interest. I hope in everybody's interest. I hope

:12:58. > :13:02.in everybody's interest. I hope people will let that process take

:13:02. > :13:03.people will let that process take its course. Thank you.

:13:03. > :13:04.its course. Thank you. its course. Thank you.

:13:04. > :13:05.its course. Thank you. When we had it, it was talked as

:13:05. > :13:07.When we had it, it was talked as When we had it, it was talked as

:13:07. > :13:09.the golden tailsman, now we have the golden tailsman, now we have

:13:09. > :13:10.the golden tailsman, now we have the golden tailsman, now we have

:13:10. > :13:11.lost the Government is doing it -- lost the Government is doing it --

:13:11. > :13:12.lost the Government is doing it -- lost the Government is doing it --

:13:12. > :13:13.lost the Government is doing it -- shrugging it off as if it is no big

:13:13. > :13:14.shrugging it off as if it is no big shrugging it off as if it is no big

:13:14. > :13:15.deal. What is the significance of deal. What is the significance of

:13:15. > :13:16.deal. What is the significance of Britain's triple-A rating, on the

:13:16. > :13:17.Britain's triple-A rating, on the Britain's triple-A rating, on the

:13:17. > :13:18.right they are pushing to cut right they are pushing to cut

:13:18. > :13:19.right they are pushing to cut faster, on the left they are

:13:19. > :13:20.faster, on the left they are faster, on the left they are

:13:20. > :13:22.pushing to cut less. Will the pushing to cut less. Will the

:13:22. > :13:23.downgrade make any concrete downgrade make any concrete

:13:23. > :13:24.difference to the Government's difference to the Government's

:13:24. > :13:26.difference to the Government's policies. What will it mean for

:13:26. > :13:26.policies. What will it mean for policies. What will it mean for

:13:26. > :13:31.next month's budget. Our Economics next month's budget. Our Economics

:13:31. > :13:33.Editor offers his thoughts. Editor offers his thoughts.

:13:34. > :13:34.Editor offers his thoughts. Editor offers his thoughts.

:13:34. > :13:36.We lived through an IMF bail out, a We lived through an IMF bail out, a

:13:36. > :13:38.We lived through an IMF bail out, a "Winter of Discontent", a slump, a

:13:38. > :13:39."Winter of Discontent", a slump, a "Winter of Discontent", a slump, a

:13:39. > :13:40.big bang, a Black Wednesday, a big bang, a Black Wednesday, a

:13:40. > :13:42.big bang, a Black Wednesday, a dotcom crash, and the near collapse

:13:42. > :13:44.dotcom crash, and the near collapse dotcom crash, and the near collapse

:13:44. > :13:45.of the financial system. All while of the financial system. All while

:13:45. > :13:47.remaining triple-A. George Osborne remaining triple-A. George Osborne

:13:47. > :13:48.remaining triple-A. George Osborne remaining triple-A. George Osborne

:13:48. > :13:49.said it would be a disaster if said it would be a disaster if

:13:49. > :13:50.said it would be a disaster if Britain lost its triple-A credit

:13:50. > :13:53.Britain lost its triple-A credit Britain lost its triple-A credit

:13:53. > :13:54.rating, but today he shrugged it rating, but today he shrugged it

:13:54. > :13:55.rating, but today he shrugged it off. The credit rating is an

:13:55. > :13:56.off. The credit rating is an off. The credit rating is an

:13:56. > :13:59.important benchmark for any country, important benchmark for any country,

:13:59. > :14:00.but this Government's economic but this Government's economic

:14:00. > :14:02.but this Government's economic but this Government's economic

:14:02. > :14:03.policy is tested day in and day out policy is tested day in and day out

:14:03. > :14:04.policy is tested day in and day out policy is tested day in and day out

:14:05. > :14:05.in the markets. It is not been in the markets. It is not been

:14:05. > :14:06.in the markets. It is not been found wanting today. For the

:14:07. > :14:09.found wanting today. For the found wanting today. For the

:14:09. > :14:11.opposition, it was a bit more opposition, it was a bit more

:14:11. > :14:13.opposition, it was a bit more serious than that. The downgrading

:14:13. > :14:15.serious than that. The downgrading serious than that. The downgrading

:14:15. > :14:17.of Britain's credit rating is, in of Britain's credit rating is, in

:14:17. > :14:18.of Britain's credit rating is, in this Chancellor's own words, a

:14:19. > :14:20.this Chancellor's own words, a humiliation for this Government.

:14:20. > :14:21.humiliation for this Government. humiliation for this Government.

:14:21. > :14:22.humiliation for this Government. Let me remind the House what he

:14:22. > :14:23.Let me remind the House what he Let me remind the House what he

:14:23. > :14:25.promised at the general election. promised at the general election.

:14:25. > :14:27.promised at the general election. He said the British people will

:14:27. > :14:28.He said the British people will have transparent benchmarks against

:14:28. > :14:30.have transparent benchmarks against have transparent benchmarks against

:14:30. > :14:31.which they can judge the economic which they can judge the economic

:14:31. > :14:33.which they can judge the economic success or failure of the next

:14:33. > :14:35.success or failure of the next success or failure of the next

:14:35. > :14:39.Government. Number one we will Government. Number one we will

:14:39. > :14:41.safeguard Britain's credit rating. safeguard Britain's credit rating.

:14:41. > :14:43.safeguard Britain's credit rating. The UK borrows money by issuing

:14:43. > :14:44.The UK borrows money by issuing The UK borrows money by issuing

:14:44. > :14:45.IOUs called bonds. These pay a IOUs called bonds. These pay a

:14:45. > :14:46.IOUs called bonds. These pay a fixed interest rate, but they are

:14:46. > :14:46.fixed interest rate, but they are fixed interest rate, but they are

:14:46. > :14:48.fixed interest rate, but they are bought and sold on the market. That

:14:48. > :14:49.bought and sold on the market. That bought and sold on the market. That

:14:49. > :14:50.means if their price rise, the means if their price rise, the

:14:50. > :14:52.means if their price rise, the effective interest rate, the yield,

:14:52. > :14:53.effective interest rate, the yield, effective interest rate, the yield,

:14:53. > :14:54.falls. And by last summer, this falls. And by last summer, this

:14:54. > :14:55.falls. And by last summer, this falls. And by last summer, this

:14:56. > :14:57.rate had fallen to its lowest ever. rate had fallen to its lowest ever.

:14:57. > :15:00.rate had fallen to its lowest ever. rate had fallen to its lowest ever.

:15:00. > :15:02.But now, it is edging up again. And But now, it is edging up again. And

:15:02. > :15:03.But now, it is edging up again. And the downgrade was a recognition of

:15:03. > :15:04.the downgrade was a recognition of the downgrade was a recognition of

:15:04. > :15:07.what's driving that graph. Worries what's driving that graph. Worries

:15:07. > :15:08.what's driving that graph. Worries about low growth and high

:15:08. > :15:10.about low growth and high Government borrowing. What the

:15:10. > :15:10.Government borrowing. What the Government borrowing. What the

:15:11. > :15:12.gloomiest economists fear is a gloomiest economists fear is a

:15:12. > :15:14.gloomiest economists fear is a spiral, like this. Bonds fall in

:15:14. > :15:15.spiral, like this. Bonds fall in spiral, like this. Bonds fall in

:15:15. > :15:17.spiral, like this. Bonds fall in value, banks, which hold a lot of

:15:17. > :15:17.value, banks, which hold a lot of value, banks, which hold a lot of

:15:18. > :15:19.bonds sudden lie have solvency bonds sudden lie have solvency

:15:19. > :15:20.bonds sudden lie have solvency problems and the Government --

:15:20. > :15:21.problems and the Government -- problems and the Government --

:15:21. > :15:22.suddenly have solvency problems and suddenly have solvency problems and

:15:22. > :15:23.suddenly have solvency problems and suddenly have solvency problems and

:15:23. > :15:24.the Government has to prop them up. the Government has to prop them up.

:15:24. > :15:24.the Government has to prop them up. the Government has to prop them up.

:15:24. > :15:25.The Bank of England prints a lot The Bank of England prints a lot

:15:25. > :15:26.The Bank of England prints a lot The Bank of England prints a lot

:15:26. > :15:27.more money to keep the value afloat, more money to keep the value afloat,

:15:27. > :15:28.more money to keep the value afloat, that depresses the value of the

:15:28. > :15:29.that depresses the value of the that depresses the value of the

:15:29. > :15:31.pound, which, in turn, means people pound, which, in turn, means people

:15:31. > :15:32.pound, which, in turn, means people don't want so many British bonds,

:15:32. > :15:34.don't want so many British bonds, don't want so many British bonds,

:15:34. > :15:37.don't want so many British bonds, and the value of them falls again.

:15:37. > :15:37.and the value of them falls again. and the value of them falls again.

:15:37. > :15:38.and the value of them falls again. The UK banks are forced to hold

:15:38. > :15:40.The UK banks are forced to hold The UK banks are forced to hold

:15:40. > :15:41.large amounts of Government bonds large amounts of Government bonds

:15:42. > :15:43.large amounts of Government bonds by regulation. That means if there

:15:43. > :15:44.by regulation. That means if there by regulation. That means if there

:15:44. > :15:45.were only fairly small falls in were only fairly small falls in

:15:45. > :15:46.were only fairly small falls in Government bond prices the banks

:15:46. > :15:47.Government bond prices the banks Government bond prices the banks

:15:47. > :15:49.would take large losses. The Bank would take large losses. The Bank

:15:49. > :15:51.would take large losses. The Bank of England estimates that UK banks

:15:51. > :15:53.of England estimates that UK banks of England estimates that UK banks

:15:53. > :15:54.are already �60 billion light. That are already �60 billion light. That

:15:54. > :15:55.are already �60 billion light. That are already �60 billion light. That

:15:55. > :15:56.is they hold too little capital, to is they hold too little capital, to

:15:56. > :15:57.is they hold too little capital, to the tune of �60 billion. Further

:15:57. > :15:58.the tune of �60 billion. Further the tune of �60 billion. Further

:15:58. > :16:00.the tune of �60 billion. Further losses could tip them over the edge

:16:00. > :16:01.losses could tip them over the edge losses could tip them over the edge

:16:01. > :16:02.losses could tip them over the edge and we could see banks going under.

:16:03. > :16:03.and we could see banks going under. and we could see banks going under.

:16:03. > :16:04.George Osborne's problem, as he George Osborne's problem, as he

:16:04. > :16:05.George Osborne's problem, as he tours British factories, is the

:16:05. > :16:06.tours British factories, is the tours British factories, is the

:16:06. > :16:07.growth he expected hasn't happened. growth he expected hasn't happened.

:16:07. > :16:08.growth he expected hasn't happened. The Conservatives would like to cut

:16:08. > :16:09.The Conservatives would like to cut The Conservatives would like to cut

:16:09. > :16:10.taxes, but can't, because of the taxes, but can't, because of the

:16:10. > :16:11.taxes, but can't, because of the taxes, but can't, because of the

:16:12. > :16:13.need to get the deficit down. They need to get the deficit down. They

:16:13. > :16:14.need to get the deficit down. They would like to shred employment law,

:16:14. > :16:17.would like to shred employment law, would like to shred employment law,

:16:17. > :16:19.would like to shred employment law, but the Lib Dems won't let them.

:16:19. > :16:21.but the Lib Dems won't let them. but the Lib Dems won't let them.

:16:21. > :16:22.And economists, once influential in And economists, once influential in

:16:22. > :16:24.And economists, once influential in the design of deficit reduction,

:16:24. > :16:26.the design of deficit reduction, the design of deficit reduction,

:16:26. > :16:27.are starting to say things like...I are starting to say things like...I

:16:27. > :16:29.are starting to say things like...I Think we are seeing disorientation

:16:29. > :16:30.Think we are seeing disorientation Think we are seeing disorientation

:16:30. > :16:30.Think we are seeing disorientation all over the place. The Bank of

:16:30. > :16:31.all over the place. The Bank of all over the place. The Bank of

:16:31. > :16:32.England is talking about money England is talking about money

:16:32. > :16:33.England is talking about money printing at a time when inflation

:16:33. > :16:33.printing at a time when inflation printing at a time when inflation

:16:33. > :16:34.printing at a time when inflation is high. We are seeing in respect

:16:34. > :16:36.is high. We are seeing in respect is high. We are seeing in respect

:16:36. > :16:37.of the banking regulation, the of the banking regulation, the

:16:37. > :16:38.of the banking regulation, the unwinding and delaying of many of

:16:38. > :16:39.unwinding and delaying of many of unwinding and delaying of many of

:16:39. > :16:40.the capital increases which they the capital increases which they

:16:40. > :16:41.the capital increases which they the capital increases which they

:16:41. > :16:44.proposed had to be coming in quite proposed had to be coming in quite

:16:44. > :16:46.proposed had to be coming in quite quickly. At the Treasury we have

:16:46. > :16:48.quickly. At the Treasury we have quickly. At the Treasury we have

:16:49. > :16:49.seen that their tax cuts were seen that their tax cuts were

:16:49. > :16:51.seen that their tax cuts were unwound in the last omnishambles

:16:51. > :16:52.unwound in the last omnishambles unwound in the last omnishambles

:16:52. > :16:53.unwound in the last omnishambles budget in 2012 they don't know how

:16:53. > :16:54.budget in 2012 they don't know how budget in 2012 they don't know how

:16:54. > :16:55.budget in 2012 they don't know how budget in 2012 they don't know how

:16:55. > :16:56.to do -- what to do any more. It is to do -- what to do any more. It is

:16:56. > :16:57.to do -- what to do any more. It is to do -- what to do any more. It is

:16:57. > :16:58.policy panic all over the place. policy panic all over the place.

:16:58. > :17:00.policy panic all over the place. until now arguments over growth

:17:00. > :17:02.until now arguments over growth until now arguments over growth

:17:02. > :17:02.strategy have divided the coalition strategy have divided the coalition

:17:02. > :17:03.strategy have divided the coalition along party lines. Vincent Cable

:17:03. > :17:04.along party lines. Vincent Cable along party lines. Vincent Cable

:17:04. > :17:06.saying famously that we don't have saying famously that we don't have

:17:06. > :17:07.saying famously that we don't have a growth strategy. Now with the

:17:07. > :17:08.a growth strategy. Now with the a growth strategy. Now with the

:17:08. > :17:09.a growth strategy. Now with the lost of the triple-A, it is the

:17:09. > :17:10.lost of the triple-A, it is the Conservative Party itself looking

:17:10. > :17:11.Conservative Party itself looking Conservative Party itself looking

:17:12. > :17:13.Conservative Party itself looking divided. In the end when you look

:17:13. > :17:15.divided. In the end when you look divided. In the end when you look

:17:15. > :17:17.at the 2012 budget figure, three- at the 2012 budget figure, three-

:17:17. > :17:18.at the 2012 budget figure, three- quarters of spending is education,

:17:18. > :17:19.quarters of spending is education, quarters of spending is education,

:17:19. > :17:20.health and welfare interest. We are health and welfare interest. We are

:17:20. > :17:20.health and welfare interest. We are already taking on the debt bought

:17:21. > :17:21.already taking on the debt bought already taking on the debt bought

:17:21. > :17:22.already taking on the debt bought by the Bank of England, if we are

:17:22. > :17:25.by the Bank of England, if we are by the Bank of England, if we are

:17:25. > :17:26.seriously going to cut spending and seriously going to cut spending and

:17:26. > :17:27.seriously going to cut spending and live within our means, eventually

:17:28. > :17:28.live within our means, eventually welfare, health and education

:17:28. > :17:30.welfare, health and education welfare, health and education

:17:30. > :17:31.spending will have to be reduced. spending will have to be reduced.

:17:31. > :17:32.spending will have to be reduced. Before the budget there is the

:17:32. > :17:33.Before the budget there is the Eastleigh by-election. If the

:17:33. > :17:35.Eastleigh by-election. If the Eastleigh by-election. If the

:17:35. > :17:37.Conservatives lose that, on top of Conservatives lose that, on top of

:17:37. > :17:39.the triple-A, those habitually the triple-A, those habitually

:17:39. > :17:40.the triple-A, those habitually critical of the Chancellor see

:17:40. > :17:43.critical of the Chancellor see critical of the Chancellor see

:17:43. > :17:44.pressurising further. I know of at pressurising further. I know of at

:17:44. > :17:45.least four separate leadership least four separate leadership

:17:45. > :17:47.least four separate leadership challenges that have been putting

:17:47. > :17:49.challenges that have been putting challenges that have been putting

:17:49. > :17:50.together the funding. There is huge together the funding. There is huge

:17:50. > :17:51.together the funding. There is huge degrees of unrest in parliament. On

:17:51. > :17:54.degrees of unrest in parliament. On degrees of unrest in parliament. On

:17:54. > :17:57.degrees of unrest in parliament. On the one hand the impact of losing

:17:57. > :17:59.the one hand the impact of losing the triple-A has concentrated

:17:59. > :18:00.the triple-A has concentrated conventional opinion. Conventional

:18:00. > :18:01.conventional opinion. Conventional conventional opinion. Conventional

:18:01. > :18:02.Tories think George Osborne hasn't Tories think George Osborne hasn't

:18:02. > :18:03.Tories think George Osborne hasn't cut the public sector enough, we

:18:03. > :18:03.cut the public sector enough, we cut the public sector enough, we

:18:04. > :18:05.cut the public sector enough, we need to do far more and pump it

:18:05. > :18:06.need to do far more and pump it need to do far more and pump it

:18:06. > :18:07.into the private sector. But into the private sector. But

:18:07. > :18:07.into the private sector. But thinking Tories are beginning to

:18:07. > :18:09.thinking Tories are beginning to thinking Tories are beginning to

:18:10. > :18:11.thinking Tories are beginning to wake up and realise that the old

:18:11. > :18:13.wake up and realise that the old wake up and realise that the old

:18:13. > :18:14.1980s diagnosis doesn't produce the 1980s diagnosis doesn't produce the

:18:14. > :18:15.1980s diagnosis doesn't produce the right medicine. After today what's

:18:15. > :18:17.right medicine. After today what's right medicine. After today what's

:18:17. > :18:18.obvious is how little pressure the obvious is how little pressure the

:18:18. > :18:19.obvious is how little pressure the Chancellor feels under from Labour,

:18:19. > :18:20.Chancellor feels under from Labour, Chancellor feels under from Labour,

:18:20. > :18:21.but how much pressure he feels but how much pressure he feels

:18:21. > :18:23.but how much pressure he feels under from his own party. Because

:18:23. > :18:24.under from his own party. Because under from his own party. Because

:18:24. > :18:25.if austerity isn't working, it if austerity isn't working, it

:18:25. > :18:28.if austerity isn't working, it either has to be toughened or

:18:28. > :18:30.abandoned. abandoned.

:18:30. > :18:34.abandoned. That's effectively what the ratings

:18:34. > :18:37.That's effectively what the ratings That's effectively what the ratings

:18:37. > :18:38.agencies are worried about. We have agencies are worried about. We have

:18:38. > :18:39.agencies are worried about. We have the Exchequer secretary to the

:18:39. > :18:39.the Exchequer secretary to the the Exchequer secretary to the

:18:40. > :18:41.secretary. There is nothing like secretary. There is nothing like

:18:41. > :18:43.secretary. There is nothing like being quoted back at yourself, is

:18:43. > :18:44.being quoted back at yourself, is being quoted back at yourself, is

:18:44. > :18:45.there. George Osborne then, the there. George Osborne then, the

:18:45. > :18:47.humiliating possibility of Britain humiliating possibility of Britain

:18:47. > :18:49.losing its international credit losing its international credit

:18:49. > :18:54.losing its international credit losing its international credit

:18:54. > :18:55.rating. Are we humiliated, or is he rating. Are we humiliated, or is he

:18:55. > :18:56.rating. Are we humiliated, or is he wrong? It is disappointing.It was

:18:56. > :18:58.wrong? It is disappointing.It was wrong? It is disappointing.It was

:18:58. > :18:59.a key manifesto pledge? It is a key manifesto pledge? It is

:18:59. > :19:00.a key manifesto pledge? It is disappointing we lost the triple-A

:19:00. > :19:01.disappointing we lost the triple-A disappointing we lost the triple-A

:19:01. > :19:02.disappointing we lost the triple-A rating. We have to bear in mind

:19:02. > :19:04.rating. We have to bear in mind rating. We have to bear in mind

:19:04. > :19:05.that the credit rating is an that the credit rating is an

:19:05. > :19:07.important benchmark, but one important benchmark, but one

:19:07. > :19:07.important benchmark, but one benchmark as to our international

:19:07. > :19:09.benchmark as to our international credibility. Of greater

:19:09. > :19:09.credibility. Of greater credibility. Of greater

:19:09. > :19:10.significance is the fact that every significance is the fact that every

:19:10. > :19:12.significance is the fact that every significance is the fact that every

:19:12. > :19:13.day there is a price for our bond day there is a price for our bond

:19:13. > :19:16.day there is a price for our bond yields and they remain very close

:19:16. > :19:17.yields and they remain very close yields and they remain very close

:19:17. > :19:18.yields and they remain very close to record lows It was a key pledge

:19:18. > :19:20.to record lows It was a key pledge to record lows It was a key pledge

:19:20. > :19:21.of our manifesto, we will safeguard of our manifesto, we will safeguard

:19:21. > :19:22.of our manifesto, we will safeguard Britain's credit rating with a

:19:22. > :19:24.Britain's credit rating with a Britain's credit rating with a

:19:24. > :19:24.credible plan. That is broken? credible plan. That is broken?

:19:24. > :19:26.credible plan. That is broken? credible plan. That is broken?

:19:26. > :19:27.if you look. We have a credible if you look. We have a credible

:19:27. > :19:29.if you look. We have a credible plan, and the fact that is

:19:29. > :19:29.plan, and the fact that is international markets still

:19:29. > :19:30.international markets still international markets still

:19:30. > :19:31.international markets still consider the UK to have a credible

:19:31. > :19:33.consider the UK to have a credible consider the UK to have a credible

:19:33. > :19:34.consider the UK to have a credible plan. It is going to plan?This is

:19:34. > :19:35.plan. It is going to plan?This is plan. It is going to plan?This is

:19:35. > :19:37.a disappointment, we are not a disappointment, we are not

:19:37. > :19:38.a disappointment, we are not dismissing it, it is an important

:19:38. > :19:38.dismissing it, it is an important dismissing it, it is an important

:19:38. > :19:39.benchmark. Clearly it is much benchmark. Clearly it is much

:19:39. > :19:40.benchmark. Clearly it is much better to have a triple-A rating

:19:40. > :19:41.better to have a triple-A rating better to have a triple-A rating

:19:41. > :19:42.better to have a triple-A rating than not. What went wrong?If you

:19:42. > :19:44.than not. What went wrong?If you than not. What went wrong?If you

:19:44. > :19:45.look at the explanation that look at the explanation that

:19:45. > :19:46.look at the explanation that Moody's have set out, their view

:19:46. > :19:47.Moody's have set out, their view Moody's have set out, their view

:19:47. > :19:49.Moody's have set out, their view that growth over the next few years

:19:49. > :19:53.that growth over the next few years that growth over the next few years

:19:53. > :19:54.will be sluggish, and in those will be sluggish, and in those

:19:54. > :19:55.will be sluggish, and in those circumstances that's why they have

:19:55. > :19:57.circumstances that's why they have circumstances that's why they have

:19:57. > :19:58.said that. What's gone wrong?The said that. What's gone wrong?The

:19:58. > :19:59.said that. What's gone wrong?The reason growth will be sluggish over

:19:59. > :20:00.reason growth will be sluggish over reason growth will be sluggish over

:20:00. > :20:01.reason growth will be sluggish over the next few years not because we

:20:01. > :20:02.the next few years not because we the next few years not because we

:20:02. > :20:03.have taken measures to deal with have taken measures to deal with

:20:03. > :20:05.have taken measures to deal with the deficit. Moody's are clear that

:20:05. > :20:05.the deficit. Moody's are clear that the deficit. Moody's are clear that

:20:06. > :20:07.the deficit. Moody's are clear that but for the fact we have taken

:20:07. > :20:08.but for the fact we have taken but for the fact we have taken

:20:08. > :20:08.but for the fact we have taken those measures we would be in a

:20:08. > :20:09.those measures we would be in a those measures we would be in a

:20:09. > :20:10.those measures we would be in a worse situation. It is to do with

:20:10. > :20:13.worse situation. It is to do with the international situation,

:20:13. > :20:14.the international situation, eurozone crisis, commodity crisis.

:20:14. > :20:14.eurozone crisis, commodity crisis. eurozone crisis, commodity crisis.

:20:14. > :20:16.It wasn't your plan, the It wasn't your plan, the

:20:16. > :20:17.It wasn't your plan, the Government's plan at all. The

:20:17. > :20:17.Government's plan at all. The Government's plan has gone

:20:17. > :20:20.Government's plan has gone Government's plan has gone

:20:20. > :20:22.according to plan and nothing will according to plan and nothing will

:20:22. > :20:23.change? The circumstances in which change? The circumstances in which

:20:23. > :20:24.change? The circumstances in which change? The circumstances in which

:20:24. > :20:26.we are in are clearly much worse we are in are clearly much worse

:20:26. > :20:26.than what independent forecasters than what independent forecasters

:20:26. > :20:27.than what independent forecasters than what independent forecasters

:20:27. > :20:29.had predicted in 2010. That is why had predicted in 2010. That is why

:20:29. > :20:29.had predicted in 2010. That is why had predicted in 2010. That is why

:20:30. > :20:31.had predicted in 2010. That is why the likes of the UK, as well as the

:20:31. > :20:32.the likes of the UK, as well as the the likes of the UK, as well as the

:20:32. > :20:34.US and France, have lost their US and France, have lost their

:20:34. > :20:35.US and France, have lost their triple-A status. Debt is going up.

:20:35. > :20:36.triple-A status. Debt is going up. triple-A status. Debt is going up.

:20:36. > :20:37.Not many people realise that. Debt Not many people realise that. Debt

:20:37. > :20:40.Not many people realise that. Debt Not many people realise that. Debt

:20:40. > :20:41.is going up, not set to peak until is going up, not set to peak until

:20:41. > :20:42.is going up, not set to peak until 2018. When you inherit a record

:20:42. > :20:43.2018. When you inherit a record 2018. When you inherit a record

:20:43. > :20:44.deficit, debt was always going to deficit, debt was always going to

:20:44. > :20:45.deficit, debt was always going to increase. What we have done is

:20:45. > :20:46.increase. What we have done is increase. What we have done is

:20:46. > :20:48.brought the deficit down. Which is brought the deficit down. Which is

:20:48. > :20:49.brought the deficit down. Which is brought the deficit down. Which is

:20:49. > :20:50.the year on year number. You are the year on year number. You are

:20:50. > :20:51.the year on year number. You are getting double the debt, you are

:20:51. > :20:51.getting double the debt, you are getting double the debt, you are

:20:51. > :20:54.getting double the debt, you are doubling the debt, how can you say

:20:54. > :20:54.doubling the debt, how can you say doubling the debt, how can you say

:20:54. > :20:56.doubling the debt, how can you say that is a credible plan? Debt is

:20:56. > :20:57.that is a credible plan? Debt is that is a credible plan? Debt is

:20:57. > :20:58.the accumulation of deficits, if the accumulation of deficits, if

:20:58. > :21:00.the accumulation of deficits, if you like, we inherited the largest

:21:00. > :21:01.you like, we inherited the largest you like, we inherited the largest

:21:02. > :21:03.you like, we inherited the largest deficit in our history, and we have

:21:03. > :21:04.deficit in our history, and we have deficit in our history, and we have

:21:04. > :21:05.deficit in our history, and we have reduced by 25% from the time that

:21:05. > :21:05.reduced by 25% from the time that reduced by 25% from the time that

:21:05. > :21:06.reduced by 25% from the time that we came into office. Now, we have

:21:06. > :21:08.we came into office. Now, we have we came into office. Now, we have

:21:08. > :21:09.done that by taking some difficult done that by taking some difficult

:21:09. > :21:10.decisions. There is clearly decisions. There is clearly

:21:10. > :21:11.decisions. There is clearly opposition to that. It is higher

:21:11. > :21:11.opposition to that. It is higher opposition to that. It is higher

:21:11. > :21:12.opposition to that. It is higher than last year. It is higher than

:21:12. > :21:13.than last year. It is higher than than last year. It is higher than

:21:14. > :21:15.last year? We don't have the last year? We don't have the

:21:15. > :21:17.last year? We don't have the deficit numbers yet for this year.

:21:17. > :21:17.deficit numbers yet for this year. deficit numbers yet for this year.

:21:17. > :21:18.The last time the independent The last time the independent

:21:18. > :21:19.The last time the independent Office of Budget Responsibility set

:21:19. > :21:20.Office of Budget Responsibility set Office of Budget Responsibility set

:21:20. > :21:21.Office of Budget Responsibility set out a comment it was lower. It is

:21:21. > :21:23.out a comment it was lower. It is out a comment it was lower. It is

:21:23. > :21:24.not going in the right direction, not going in the right direction,

:21:24. > :21:25.not going in the right direction, not going in the right direction,

:21:25. > :21:26.is it. What happens now? Is it is it. What happens now? Is it

:21:26. > :21:27.is it. What happens now? Is it faster cuts? What is important, and

:21:27. > :21:28.faster cuts? What is important, and faster cuts? What is important, and

:21:28. > :21:29.faster cuts? What is important, and I'm not going to tell what you's in

:21:30. > :21:30.I'm not going to tell what you's in I'm not going to tell what you's in

:21:30. > :21:31.I'm not going to tell what you's in the budget in three weeks or so

:21:31. > :21:33.the budget in three weeks or so the budget in three weeks or so

:21:33. > :21:34.the budget in three weeks or so time. What is very important is the

:21:34. > :21:36.time. What is very important is the Government doesn't abandon dealing

:21:36. > :21:37.Government doesn't abandon dealing Government doesn't abandon dealing

:21:37. > :21:38.with our deficit. We heard today, with our deficit. We heard today,

:21:38. > :21:39.with our deficit. We heard today, with our deficit. We heard today,

:21:39. > :21:40.in the House of Commons, Ed Balls in the House of Commons, Ed Balls

:21:40. > :21:41.in the House of Commons, Ed Balls essentially make an argument, we

:21:41. > :21:42.essentially make an argument, we essentially make an argument, we

:21:42. > :21:45.shouldn't worry about it. I'm not shouldn't worry about it. I'm not

:21:45. > :21:46.shouldn't worry about it. I'm not talking about Ed Balls I'm talking

:21:46. > :21:46.talking about Ed Balls I'm talking talking about Ed Balls I'm talking

:21:46. > :21:47.about you. It's really important about you. It's really important

:21:47. > :21:48.about you. It's really important about you. It's really important

:21:48. > :21:49.because we have a choice as a because we have a choice as a

:21:49. > :21:49.because we have a choice as a because we have a choice as a

:21:49. > :21:50.country. Do we try to deal with the country. Do we try to deal with the

:21:50. > :21:51.country. Do we try to deal with the country. Do we try to deal with the

:21:51. > :21:52.deficit? Do we try to get the deficit? Do we try to get the

:21:52. > :21:53.deficit? Do we try to get the public finances back in order? Do

:21:53. > :21:54.public finances back in order? Do public finances back in order? Do

:21:54. > :21:55.public finances back in order? Do we try to deal with some of the

:21:55. > :21:56.we try to deal with some of the we try to deal with some of the

:21:56. > :21:57.long-term issues? Or do we ignore long-term issues? Or do we ignore

:21:57. > :21:58.long-term issues? Or do we ignore long-term issues? Or do we ignore

:21:58. > :21:59.it and say let's not borrow about it and say let's not borrow about

:21:59. > :22:01.it and say let's not borrow about it and say let's not borrow about

:22:01. > :22:03.it and borrow our way out. It is it and borrow our way out. It is

:22:03. > :22:04.it and borrow our way out. It is the alternative, that is what Ed

:22:04. > :22:05.the alternative, that is what Ed the alternative, that is what Ed

:22:05. > :22:06.Balls is advocating. No going Balls is advocating. No going

:22:06. > :22:08.Balls is advocating. No going faster and making greater tax cuts

:22:08. > :22:09.faster and making greater tax cuts faster and making greater tax cuts

:22:09. > :22:10.faster and making greater tax cuts faster and making greater tax cuts

:22:10. > :22:11.s that on the cards now? A lot of s that on the cards now? A lot of

:22:11. > :22:12.s that on the cards now? A lot of s that on the cards now? A lot of

:22:12. > :22:13.your party would like to see that? your party would like to see that?

:22:13. > :22:14.your party would like to see that? your party would like to see that?

:22:14. > :22:15.I won't set out items in the budget I won't set out items in the budget

:22:15. > :22:16.I won't set out items in the budget which will be announced in three

:22:16. > :22:18.which will be announced in three which will be announced in three

:22:18. > :22:19.weeks time. You must be considering weeks time. You must be considering

:22:19. > :22:20.weeks time. You must be considering it, right? The important thing is

:22:20. > :22:22.it, right? The important thing is it, right? The important thing is

:22:22. > :22:23.it, right? The important thing is as a Government we focus on dealing

:22:23. > :22:25.as a Government we focus on dealing as a Government we focus on dealing

:22:25. > :22:26.with the public finances that we with the public finances that we

:22:26. > :22:27.with the public finances that we with the public finances that we

:22:27. > :22:28.stick to a plan. Are you stick to stick to a plan. Are you stick to

:22:28. > :22:29.stick to a plan. Are you stick to stick to a plan. Are you stick to

:22:29. > :22:30.go plan that has lost us the go plan that has lost us the

:22:30. > :22:31.go plan that has lost us the triple-A rating. That is what

:22:31. > :22:32.triple-A rating. That is what triple-A rating. That is what

:22:32. > :22:33.people are trying to understand. Is people are trying to understand. Is

:22:33. > :22:34.people are trying to understand. Is this the same plan you will

:22:34. > :22:36.this the same plan you will this the same plan you will

:22:36. > :22:37.continue with, which is losing us continue with, which is losing us

:22:37. > :22:38.continue with, which is losing us what you called "credibility"?

:22:38. > :22:39.what you called "credibility"? what you called "credibility"?

:22:39. > :22:40.what you called "credibility"? moody as made very clear in their

:22:40. > :22:41.moody as made very clear in their moody as made very clear in their

:22:41. > :22:42.statement on Friday, if it wasn't statement on Friday, if it wasn't

:22:42. > :22:44.statement on Friday, if it wasn't for the political will that this

:22:44. > :22:45.for the political will that this Government is demonstrating, our

:22:45. > :22:47.Government is demonstrating, our Government is demonstrating, our

:22:47. > :22:50.determination to get to grips with determination to get to grips with

:22:50. > :22:52.historically very, very high-def historically very, very high-def

:22:53. > :22:54.historically very, very high-def sits, then the prospects for our,

:22:54. > :22:56.sits, then the prospects for our, sits, then the prospects for our,

:22:56. > :22:57.for our credit rating and our for our credit rating and our

:22:57. > :22:58.market credibility, more market credibility, more

:22:58. > :22:59.market credibility, more importantly, would be much worse.

:22:59. > :23:00.importantly, would be much worse. importantly, would be much worse.

:23:00. > :23:01.We would see interest rates rising, We would see interest rates rising,

:23:01. > :23:02.We would see interest rates rising, We would see interest rates rising,

:23:02. > :23:04.we would see that having an impact we would see that having an impact

:23:04. > :23:04.on households with mortgages, on households with mortgages,

:23:04. > :23:05.on households with mortgages, businesses seeking finance. That is

:23:05. > :23:06.businesses seeking finance. That is businesses seeking finance. That is

:23:06. > :23:07.businesses seeking finance. That is a risk that we are not prepared to

:23:07. > :23:08.a risk that we are not prepared to a risk that we are not prepared to

:23:08. > :23:10.a risk that we are not prepared to take. I'm afraid that is what would

:23:10. > :23:11.take. I'm afraid that is what would take. I'm afraid that is what would

:23:11. > :23:13.take. I'm afraid that is what would happen if we took the Ed Balls

:23:13. > :23:13.happen if we took the Ed Balls happen if we took the Ed Balls

:23:13. > :23:14.approach and said borrow. I'm not approach and said borrow. I'm not

:23:14. > :23:16.approach and said borrow. I'm not talking about the Ed Balls approach,

:23:16. > :23:17.talking about the Ed Balls approach, talking about the Ed Balls approach,

:23:17. > :23:18.you have ignored my request. The you have ignored my request. The

:23:18. > :23:19.you have ignored my request. The alternative which many in the party

:23:19. > :23:20.alternative which many in the party alternative which many in the party

:23:20. > :23:21.are saying, and maybe elsewhere, is are saying, and maybe elsewhere, is

:23:21. > :23:22.are saying, and maybe elsewhere, is are saying, and maybe elsewhere, is

:23:22. > :23:23.that you could be doing this much that you could be doing this much

:23:23. > :23:24.that you could be doing this much quicker. If you could stop ring-

:23:24. > :23:25.quicker. If you could stop ring- quicker. If you could stop ring-

:23:25. > :23:26.fencing departments that you have fencing departments that you have

:23:26. > :23:27.fencing departments that you have made a big thing about ring-fencing

:23:27. > :23:28.made a big thing about ring-fencing made a big thing about ring-fencing

:23:28. > :23:30.made a big thing about ring-fencing and saying, we are not going to see

:23:30. > :23:31.and saying, we are not going to see and saying, we are not going to see

:23:31. > :23:32.and saying, we are not going to see any growth, until we do that?

:23:32. > :23:33.any growth, until we do that? any growth, until we do that?

:23:33. > :23:35.have taken some difficult decisions have taken some difficult decisions

:23:35. > :23:37.have taken some difficult decisions when it comes to public spending.

:23:37. > :23:38.when it comes to public spending. Departments are seeing reductions

:23:38. > :23:39.Departments are seeing reductions Departments are seeing reductions

:23:39. > :23:39.Departments are seeing reductions Departments are seeing reductions

:23:39. > :23:41.in a way that we have not seen in in a way that we have not seen in

:23:41. > :23:42.in a way that we have not seen in this country since the 1920s. We

:23:43. > :23:44.this country since the 1920s. We this country since the 1920s. We

:23:44. > :23:45.have no choice but to make have no choice but to make

:23:45. > :23:46.difficult decisions on public difficult decisions on public

:23:46. > :23:47.difficult decisions on public difficult decisions on public

:23:47. > :23:49.spending. It is right that we stick spending. It is right that we stick

:23:49. > :23:51.spending. It is right that we stick spending. It is right that we stick

:23:51. > :23:52.to that path. What I'm saying is to that path. What I'm saying is

:23:52. > :23:54.to that path. What I'm saying is that we really cannot abandon

:23:54. > :23:54.that we really cannot abandon that we really cannot abandon

:23:54. > :23:55.focusing on our deficit, dealing focusing on our deficit, dealing

:23:55. > :23:56.focusing on our deficit, dealing with the public finances and the

:23:56. > :23:57.with the public finances and the with the public finances and the

:23:57. > :23:58.with the public finances and the argument we heard in the House of

:23:58. > :23:58.argument we heard in the House of argument we heard in the House of

:23:58. > :23:59.argument we heard in the House of Commons today from Ed Balls is that

:23:59. > :24:00.Commons today from Ed Balls is that Commons today from Ed Balls is that

:24:00. > :24:01.Commons today from Ed Balls is that we abandon that. That would be a

:24:01. > :24:02.huge mistake. huge mistake.

:24:02. > :24:04.huge mistake. Thank you for coming in.

:24:04. > :24:04.Thank you for coming in. Thank you for coming in.

:24:04. > :24:06.Thank you for coming in. If you wanted to be really tabloid

:24:06. > :24:07.If you wanted to be really tabloid If you wanted to be really tabloid

:24:07. > :24:08.If you wanted to be really tabloid about the whole thing you could say

:24:08. > :24:10.about the whole thing you could say about the whole thing you could say

:24:10. > :24:11.the Italian elections have been Dom the Italian elections have been Dom

:24:11. > :24:12.the Italian elections have been Dom the Italian elections have been Dom

:24:12. > :24:13.it nad by a comedian and a it nad by a comedian and a

:24:13. > :24:14.it nad by a comedian and a billionare accused of having under-

:24:14. > :24:15.billionare accused of having under- billionare accused of having under-

:24:15. > :24:16.billionare accused of having under- age sex with dancer. If you didn't

:24:16. > :24:17.age sex with dancer. If you didn't age sex with dancer. If you didn't

:24:17. > :24:19.age sex with dancer. If you didn't want to be tabloid it looks like

:24:19. > :24:20.want to be tabloid it looks like want to be tabloid it looks like

:24:20. > :24:22.that from some angles. Silvio that from some angles. Silvio

:24:22. > :24:23.that from some angles. Silvio Berlusconi looks set to take the

:24:23. > :24:25.Berlusconi looks set to take the Berlusconi looks set to take the

:24:25. > :24:26.Upper House in the Senate elections, Upper House in the Senate elections,

:24:26. > :24:26.Upper House in the Senate elections, Upper House in the Senate elections,

:24:26. > :24:27.the lower house looks like it is the lower house looks like it is

:24:27. > :24:28.the lower house looks like it is going to Pier Luigi Bersani. What

:24:28. > :24:29.going to Pier Luigi Bersani. What going to Pier Luigi Bersani. What

:24:30. > :24:31.going to Pier Luigi Bersani. What does it mean for Italy or the rest

:24:31. > :24:32.does it mean for Italy or the rest does it mean for Italy or the rest

:24:32. > :24:38.of Europe. We're in Rome tonight. of Europe. We're in Rome tonight.

:24:38. > :24:40.of Europe. We're in Rome tonight. Take us through Italy first.

:24:40. > :24:41.Take us through Italy first. Take us through Italy first.

:24:41. > :24:42.Take us through Italy first. The last exit polls and all the

:24:42. > :24:43.The last exit polls and all the The last exit polls and all the

:24:43. > :24:44.votes counted show there is hardly votes counted show there is hardly

:24:44. > :24:45.votes counted show there is hardly votes counted show there is hardly

:24:45. > :24:46.a point in it between the centre a point in it between the centre

:24:46. > :24:47.a point in it between the centre left and right between the lower

:24:47. > :24:48.left and right between the lower left and right between the lower

:24:48. > :24:49.house of parliament and the Upper house of parliament and the Upper

:24:49. > :24:50.house of parliament and the Upper House of parliament. This is very

:24:50. > :24:52.House of parliament. This is very House of parliament. This is very

:24:52. > :24:54.worrying for the Italians and the worrying for the Italians and the

:24:54. > :24:55.worrying for the Italians and the worrying for the Italians and the

:24:55. > :24:57.eurozone as a whole. Italy is the eurozone as a whole. Italy is the

:24:57. > :24:58.third-largest economy in the third-largest economy in the

:24:58. > :24:59.third-largest economy in the eurozone, what matters here matters

:24:59. > :25:00.eurozone, what matters here matters eurozone, what matters here matters

:25:00. > :25:02.outside. Italy is in deep, deep outside. Italy is in deep, deep

:25:02. > :25:04.outside. Italy is in deep, deep recession, the public debt is 120%

:25:04. > :25:05.recession, the public debt is 120% recession, the public debt is 120%

:25:05. > :25:06.of GDP. Italians and the of GDP. Italians and the

:25:06. > :25:07.international financial markets international financial markets

:25:07. > :25:08.international financial markets want reforms to improve the

:25:08. > :25:10.want reforms to improve the want reforms to improve the

:25:10. > :25:11.situation. If we have a hung situation. If we have a hung

:25:11. > :25:12.situation. If we have a hung parliament here, or some kind of

:25:12. > :25:14.parliament here, or some kind of fractious, uncomfortable coalition,

:25:14. > :25:15.fractious, uncomfortable coalition, fractious, uncomfortable coalition,

:25:15. > :25:16.that is unlikely to happen. There that is unlikely to happen. There

:25:16. > :25:18.that is unlikely to happen. There is even talk here tonight of

:25:18. > :25:19.is even talk here tonight of is even talk here tonight of

:25:19. > :25:20.possible fresh elections before too possible fresh elections before too

:25:20. > :25:21.possible fresh elections before too possible fresh elections before too

:25:21. > :25:23.long. To the outside viewer it is a long. To the outside viewer it is a

:25:23. > :25:24.long. To the outside viewer it is a bit like Dallas, isn't it? You

:25:24. > :25:25.bit like Dallas, isn't it? You think Berlusconi's finished and

:25:25. > :25:27.think Berlusconi's finished and think Berlusconi's finished and

:25:27. > :25:28.think Berlusconi's finished and gone away, and then up he pops, and

:25:28. > :25:30.gone away, and then up he pops, and gone away, and then up he pops, and

:25:30. > :25:33.gone away, and then up he pops, and it looks like he has done it again.

:25:33. > :25:34.it looks like he has done it again. it looks like he has done it again.

:25:34. > :25:35.How? This really has been an How? This really has been an

:25:35. > :25:36.How? This really has been an astonishing night for two men who

:25:36. > :25:39.astonishing night for two men who astonishing night for two men who

:25:39. > :25:41.really, not very long ago, were really, not very long ago, were

:25:41. > :25:41.really, not very long ago, were dismissed by much of the Italian

:25:41. > :25:43.dismissed by much of the Italian political establishment and

:25:43. > :25:45.political establishment and political establishment and

:25:45. > :25:47.international leaders as a joke. international leaders as a joke.

:25:47. > :25:49.international leaders as a joke. You mentioned earlier the Italian

:25:49. > :25:50.You mentioned earlier the Italian You mentioned earlier the Italian

:25:50. > :25:51.comedian and the five-star movement, comedian and the five-star movement,

:25:51. > :25:52.comedian and the five-star movement, comedian and the five-star movement,

:25:52. > :25:54.he has managed to suck up protest he has managed to suck up protest

:25:54. > :25:55.he has managed to suck up protest in Italy. People disgusted by the

:25:55. > :25:55.in Italy. People disgusted by the in Italy. People disgusted by the

:25:55. > :25:56.political status quo. He's now political status quo. He's now

:25:56. > :25:59.political status quo. He's now political status quo. He's now

:25:59. > :26:00.going to be able to pepper the going to be able to pepper the

:26:00. > :26:02.going to be able to pepper the Upper and Lower House of the

:26:02. > :26:03.Upper and Lower House of the Italian parliament with his

:26:03. > :26:04.Italian parliament with his political novices. They include

:26:04. > :26:05.political novices. They include housewives and the unemployed.

:26:05. > :26:05.housewives and the unemployed. housewives and the unemployed.

:26:05. > :26:07.housewives and the unemployed. There is no way of knowing how

:26:07. > :26:09.There is no way of knowing how There is no way of knowing how

:26:09. > :26:10.these people will act in parliament. these people will act in parliament.

:26:10. > :26:11.these people will act in parliament. Italy's most famous modern day

:26:11. > :26:13.Italy's most famous modern day politician, Silvio Berlusconi, back

:26:13. > :26:15.politician, Silvio Berlusconi, back politician, Silvio Berlusconi, back

:26:15. > :26:16.from the political dead. He was from the political dead. He was

:26:16. > :26:19.booted uncermoniously out of booted uncermoniously out of

:26:19. > :26:21.booted uncermoniously out of Government just 18 months ago. And

:26:21. > :26:22.Government just 18 months ago. And Government just 18 months ago. And

:26:22. > :26:23.opinion polls shows that most opinion polls shows that most

:26:23. > :26:24.opinion polls shows that most opinion polls shows that most

:26:24. > :26:25.Italians were happy to see him go, Italians were happy to see him go,

:26:25. > :26:27.Italians were happy to see him go, what a comeback in the election

:26:27. > :26:28.what a comeback in the election campaign, tirelessly appearing on

:26:28. > :26:30.campaign, tirelessly appearing on campaign, tirelessly appearing on

:26:30. > :26:31.campaign, tirelessly appearing on TV chat show after TV chat show.

:26:31. > :26:32.TV chat show after TV chat show. TV chat show after TV chat show.

:26:32. > :26:33.Not just on his "friendly "channel Not just on his "friendly "channel

:26:33. > :26:34.Not just on his "friendly "channel Not just on his "friendly "channel

:26:34. > :26:35.that is he owns as well. Repeating that is he owns as well. Repeating

:26:35. > :26:37.that is he owns as well. Repeating again and again his economic

:26:37. > :26:39.again and again his economic again and again his economic

:26:39. > :26:40.message. His promise that he will message. His promise that he will

:26:40. > :26:41.message. His promise that he will rid Italy of unpopular austerity

:26:41. > :26:43.rid Italy of unpopular austerity rid Italy of unpopular austerity

:26:43. > :26:44.taxes introduced over the last one- taxes introduced over the last one-

:26:44. > :26:46.taxes introduced over the last one- and-a-half years by Mario Monti's

:26:46. > :26:47.and-a-half years by Mario Monti's technocrat Government. And even,

:26:47. > :26:49.technocrat Government. And even, technocrat Government. And even,

:26:49. > :26:49.this is a real Berlusconi populist this is a real Berlusconi populist

:26:49. > :26:51.this is a real Berlusconi populist touch, promising to pay back

:26:51. > :26:52.touch, promising to pay back touch, promising to pay back

:26:52. > :26:56.touch, promising to pay back Italians in cash for what they paid

:26:56. > :26:58.Italians in cash for what they paid in those taxes already.

:26:58. > :27:00.in those taxes already. in those taxes already.

:27:00. > :27:01.Preposterous say his critics, but Preposterous say his critics, but

:27:01. > :27:04.Preposterous say his critics, but clearly millions of Italians have

:27:04. > :27:05.listened. listened.

:27:05. > :27:06.listened. Name Britain's most senior Catholic

:27:06. > :27:08.Name Britain's most senior Catholic Name Britain's most senior Catholic

:27:08. > :27:09.by the Vatican, and something by the Vatican, and something

:27:09. > :27:11.by the Vatican, and something rather less complimentry by a gay

:27:11. > :27:12.rather less complimentry by a gay rather less complimentry by a gay

:27:12. > :27:13.charity last year, Cardinal Keith charity last year, Cardinal Keith

:27:13. > :27:14.O'Brien brought forward his O'Brien brought forward his

:27:14. > :27:15.O'Brien brought forward his resignation today and said he

:27:15. > :27:17.resignation today and said he wouldn't be representing this

:27:17. > :27:20.wouldn't be representing this wouldn't be representing this

:27:20. > :27:22.country at the papal conclave next country at the papal conclave next

:27:22. > :27:23.country at the papal conclave next country at the papal conclave next

:27:23. > :27:23.month. The speed of events has been month. The speed of events has been

:27:23. > :27:24.month. The speed of events has been astonished. On Friday he said

:27:24. > :27:26.astonished. On Friday he said marriage should be considered

:27:26. > :27:26.marriage should be considered marriage should be considered

:27:27. > :27:28.within the priesthood, at the within the priesthood, at the

:27:28. > :27:30.within the priesthood, at the within the priesthood, at the

:27:30. > :27:31.weekend he was the centre of sexual weekend he was the centre of sexual

:27:31. > :27:32.weekend he was the centre of sexual allegations which he contests, by

:27:32. > :27:34.allegations which he contests, by allegations which he contests, by

:27:34. > :27:35.lunchtime he was gone today. What lunchtime he was gone today. What

:27:35. > :27:36.lunchtime he was gone today. What lunchtime he was gone today. What

:27:36. > :27:37.is going on in the Catholic Church? is going on in the Catholic Church?

:27:37. > :27:39.is going on in the Catholic Church? Cardinal O'Brien was due to retire

:27:39. > :27:40.Cardinal O'Brien was due to retire Cardinal O'Brien was due to retire

:27:40. > :27:41.Cardinal O'Brien was due to retire when he turned 75 next month. His

:27:41. > :27:43.when he turned 75 next month. His decision today leaves Britain

:27:43. > :27:45.decision today leaves Britain decision today leaves Britain

:27:45. > :27:47.without any vote in the imminent without any vote in the imminent

:27:47. > :27:48.without any vote in the imminent conclave to choose Pope Benedict's

:27:48. > :27:50.conclave to choose Pope Benedict's conclave to choose Pope Benedict's

:27:50. > :27:52.successor. The Cardinal was accused successor. The Cardinal was accused

:27:52. > :27:52.in yesterday's Observer of in yesterday's Observer of

:27:52. > :27:54.inappropriate behaviour towards inappropriate behaviour towards

:27:54. > :27:56.inappropriate behaviour towards inappropriate behaviour towards

:27:56. > :27:57.four priests in the 1980s. He says four priests in the 1980s. He says

:27:57. > :27:58.four priests in the 1980s. He says he contests the allegation, and is

:27:58. > :28:00.he contests the allegation, and is he contests the allegation, and is

:28:00. > :28:02.taking legal advice. He also used taking legal advice. He also used

:28:02. > :28:04.his resignation statement to his resignation statement to

:28:04. > :28:06.his resignation statement to apologise to all whom he had

:28:06. > :28:07.apologise to all whom he had apologise to all whom he had

:28:07. > :28:09.offended. Ordained as a priest in offended. Ordained as a priest in

:28:09. > :28:11.offended. Ordained as a priest in 1965, Keith O'Brien was pro-

:28:11. > :28:12.1965, Keith O'Brien was pro- 1965, Keith O'Brien was pro-

:28:12. > :28:13.claimeded a Cardinal by Pope John claimeded a Cardinal by Pope John

:28:13. > :28:13.claimeded a Cardinal by Pope John claimeded a Cardinal by Pope John

:28:13. > :28:15.Paul II in 2003. He has been, at Paul II in 2003. He has been, at

:28:15. > :28:15.Paul II in 2003. He has been, at times, a controversial figure, most

:28:15. > :28:17.times, a controversial figure, most times, a controversial figure, most

:28:17. > :28:21.recently with his opposition to the recently with his opposition to the

:28:21. > :28:22.Scottish Government's plans to Scottish Government's plans to

:28:22. > :28:23.legalise same-sex marriage. His legalise same-sex marriage. His

:28:23. > :28:24.legalise same-sex marriage. His resignation statement said the Pope

:28:24. > :28:25.resignation statement said the Pope resignation statement said the Pope

:28:25. > :28:27.would appoint someone to govern the would appoint someone to govern the

:28:27. > :28:29.would appoint someone to govern the would appoint someone to govern the

:28:29. > :28:31.arch dieies in his place until his arch dieies in his place until his

:28:31. > :28:31.arch dieies in his place until his arch dieies in his place until his

:28:31. > :28:33.sublg -- -- diocese in his place, sublg -- -- diocese in his place,

:28:34. > :28:35.sublg -- -- diocese in his place, until his successor was appointed.

:28:35. > :28:36.until his successor was appointed. until his successor was appointed.

:28:36. > :28:37.until his successor was appointed. We have with us our guest, a

:28:37. > :28:39.We have with us our guest, a We have with us our guest, a

:28:39. > :28:42.Catholic priest who writes for the Catholic Herald.

:28:42. > :28:42.Catholic Herald. Catholic Herald.

:28:42. > :28:44.Catholic Herald. What do you think happened here?

:28:44. > :28:46.What do you think happened here? What do you think happened here?

:28:46. > :28:48.think it's, the Vatican always think it's, the Vatican always

:28:48. > :28:49.think it's, the Vatican always speaks in a rather elaborate code.

:28:49. > :28:50.speaks in a rather elaborate code. speaks in a rather elaborate code.

:28:50. > :28:51.He handed in his resignation, the He handed in his resignation, the

:28:51. > :28:53.He handed in his resignation, the Pope requested him to resign.

:28:53. > :28:54.Pope requested him to resign. Pope requested him to resign.

:28:54. > :28:55.Pope actually asked him to resign? Pope actually asked him to resign?

:28:55. > :28:56.Pope actually asked him to resign? Pope actually asked him to resign?

:28:56. > :28:56.That is what we were told. When the That is what we were told. When the

:28:56. > :28:57.That is what we were told. When the That is what we were told. When the

:28:57. > :28:59.Pope asks you to resign, you don't Pope asks you to resign, you don't

:28:59. > :28:59.Pope asks you to resign, you don't Pope asks you to resign, you don't

:29:00. > :29:00.have a choice about that. The Pope have a choice about that. The Pope

:29:00. > :29:01.have a choice about that. The Pope have a choice about that. The Pope

:29:01. > :29:02.is a supreme power in the Catholic is a supreme power in the Catholic

:29:02. > :29:03.is a supreme power in the Catholic is a supreme power in the Catholic

:29:03. > :29:05.Church, when he speaks, you do what Church, when he speaks, you do what

:29:05. > :29:06.Church, when he speaks, you do what he says. He was, effectively sacked.

:29:06. > :29:07.he says. He was, effectively sacked. he says. He was, effectively sacked.

:29:07. > :29:09.he says. He was, effectively sacked. Why? Who knows, you would have to

:29:09. > :29:10.Why? Who knows, you would have to Why? Who knows, you would have to

:29:10. > :29:11.Why? Who knows, you would have to ask the Pope that. Not me, one of

:29:11. > :29:12.ask the Pope that. Not me, one of ask the Pope that. Not me, one of

:29:12. > :29:13.the humble foot soldiers of the the humble foot soldiers of the

:29:13. > :29:14.the humble foot soldiers of the Catholic Church. People make up

:29:14. > :29:15.Catholic Church. People make up Catholic Church. People make up

:29:15. > :29:16.Catholic Church. People make up their own mind about that. The Pope

:29:16. > :29:17.their own mind about that. The Pope their own mind about that. The Pope

:29:17. > :29:18.would have had his reasons for would have had his reasons for

:29:18. > :29:19.would have had his reasons for sacking him. Are you suggesting it

:29:19. > :29:20.sacking him. Are you suggesting it sacking him. Are you suggesting it

:29:20. > :29:21.sacking him. Are you suggesting it was on the back of the allegations

:29:21. > :29:22.was on the back of the allegations was on the back of the allegations

:29:22. > :29:23.was on the back of the allegations was on the back of the allegations

:29:23. > :29:24.at the weekend, or is it more to do at the weekend, or is it more to do

:29:24. > :29:26.at the weekend, or is it more to do at the weekend, or is it more to do

:29:26. > :29:27.with the dogma of what he thought with the dogma of what he thought

:29:27. > :29:28.with the dogma of what he thought or believed? I think to understand

:29:28. > :29:29.or believed? I think to understand or believed? I think to understand

:29:29. > :29:30.what has happened here one would what has happened here one would

:29:30. > :29:31.what has happened here one would what has happened here one would

:29:31. > :29:32.have to go back to the only other have to go back to the only other

:29:32. > :29:34.have to go back to the only other have to go back to the only other

:29:34. > :29:38.time the Pope has done this. When time the Pope has done this. When

:29:38. > :29:39.time the Pope has done this. When he condemned father Ma rien Golgado

:29:40. > :29:41.he condemned father Ma rien Golgado he condemned father Ma rien Golgado

:29:41. > :29:44.he condemned father Ma rien Golgado to a life of prayer and penance

:29:44. > :29:45.to a life of prayer and penance to a life of prayer and penance

:29:45. > :29:46.without due process. There is no without due process. There is no

:29:46. > :29:48.without due process. There is no due process here, he uses this

:29:48. > :29:49.due process here, he uses this due process here, he uses this

:29:49. > :29:50.power very rarely, he decided very power very rarely, he decided very

:29:50. > :29:52.power very rarely, he decided very swiftly to act. That is most

:29:52. > :29:52.swiftly to act. That is most swiftly to act. That is most

:29:52. > :29:54.unusual. It is very interesting. We unusual. It is very interesting. We

:29:54. > :29:56.unusual. It is very interesting. We unusual. It is very interesting. We

:29:56. > :29:57.are often being told we try to are often being told we try to

:29:57. > :29:58.are often being told we try to bring our own ideals of democracy

:29:59. > :30:00.bring our own ideals of democracy bring our own ideals of democracy

:30:00. > :30:01.and fairness to an institution that and fairness to an institution that

:30:02. > :30:03.and fairness to an institution that doesn't pretend to be particularly

:30:03. > :30:06.doesn't pretend to be particularly doesn't pretend to be particularly

:30:06. > :30:08.democratic. Does it seem to you democratic. Does it seem to you

:30:08. > :30:10.democratic. Does it seem to you democratic. Does it seem to you

:30:10. > :30:15.that this has been a very heavily that this has been a very heavily

:30:15. > :30:17.that this has been a very heavily butter ox advertised event here? --

:30:17. > :30:17.butter ox advertised event here? -- butter ox advertised event here? --

:30:17. > :30:19.b bureaucracyised here? I don't b bureaucracyised here? I don't

:30:19. > :30:20.b bureaucracyised here? I don't b bureaucracyised here? I don't

:30:20. > :30:22.think it is that, but a sudden think it is that, but a sudden

:30:22. > :30:23.think it is that, but a sudden death. As I understand it Cardinal

:30:23. > :30:24.death. As I understand it Cardinal death. As I understand it Cardinal

:30:24. > :30:25.Keith O'Brien had indicated he Keith O'Brien had indicated he

:30:25. > :30:26.Keith O'Brien had indicated he wanted to go because of ill-health.

:30:26. > :30:27.wanted to go because of ill-health. wanted to go because of ill-health.

:30:27. > :30:28.The thing that is rather different The thing that is rather different

:30:28. > :30:29.The thing that is rather different The thing that is rather different

:30:29. > :30:39.is in the way he wasn't allowed to is in the way he wasn't allowed to

:30:39. > :30:41.

:30:41. > :30:42.is in the way he wasn't allowed to is in the way he wasn't allowed to

:30:42. > :30:42.stay there until the The next month stay there until the The next month

:30:42. > :30:44.stay there until the The next month stay there until the The next month

:30:44. > :30:48.stay there until the The next month and he was asked to go now. He has

:30:48. > :30:50.and he was asked to go now. He has and he was asked to go now. He has

:30:50. > :30:51.changed his mind on certain things? changed his mind on certain things?

:30:51. > :30:53.changed his mind on certain things? He has recently spoken about

:30:53. > :30:55.He has recently spoken about He has recently spoken about

:30:55. > :30:55.homosexuality in relation to gay homosexuality in relation to gay

:30:55. > :30:57.homosexuality in relation to gay marriage in very intemperate terms

:30:57. > :30:59.marriage in very intemperate terms marriage in very intemperate terms

:30:59. > :31:00.which quite shocked some people and which quite shocked some people and

:31:00. > :31:01.which quite shocked some people and hurt others. Looking back now it

:31:01. > :31:02.hurt others. Looking back now it hurt others. Looking back now it

:31:02. > :31:03.hurt others. Looking back now it seemed a rather unwise thing to do.

:31:04. > :31:05.seemed a rather unwise thing to do. seemed a rather unwise thing to do.

:31:05. > :31:07.seemed a rather unwise thing to do. Do you think he hardened that line

:31:07. > :31:09.Do you think he hardened that line Do you think he hardened that line

:31:09. > :31:11.in his position under the current in his position under the current

:31:11. > :31:11.in his position under the current in his position under the current

:31:11. > :31:13.Pope? He used to have a reputation Pope? He used to have a reputation

:31:13. > :31:15.Pope? He used to have a reputation Pope? He used to have a reputation

:31:15. > :31:17.as being a great liberal. How does as being a great liberal. How does

:31:17. > :31:18.as being a great liberal. How does that change within a priest, within

:31:18. > :31:19.that change within a priest, within that change within a priest, within

:31:19. > :31:20.that change within a priest, within a Cardinal? I don't know. I think

:31:21. > :31:21.a Cardinal? I don't know. I think a Cardinal? I don't know. I think

:31:21. > :31:23.a Cardinal? I don't know. I think we all try to be consistent if we

:31:23. > :31:25.we all try to be consistent if we we all try to be consistent if we

:31:25. > :31:26.are true to ourselves. But maybe are true to ourselves. But maybe

:31:26. > :31:27.are true to ourselves. But maybe are true to ourselves. But maybe

:31:27. > :31:28.the Cardinal got a bit carried away the Cardinal got a bit carried away

:31:28. > :31:30.the Cardinal got a bit carried away by his position. You know. The

:31:30. > :31:31.by his position. You know. The by his position. You know. The

:31:31. > :31:32.people around him. Who knows? people around him. Who knows?

:31:32. > :31:34.people around him. Who knows? was put under certain pressure,

:31:34. > :31:35.was put under certain pressure, was put under certain pressure,

:31:35. > :31:37.wasn't he. When he became Cardinal wasn't he. When he became Cardinal

:31:37. > :31:38.wasn't he. When he became Cardinal wasn't he. When he became Cardinal

:31:38. > :31:39.back in 2003, he had to swear an back in 2003, he had to swear an

:31:39. > :31:39.back in 2003, he had to swear an additional oath, which was very

:31:40. > :31:40.additional oath, which was very additional oath, which was very

:31:40. > :31:42.additional oath, which was very unusual, that he would stick to the

:31:42. > :31:43.unusual, that he would stick to the unusual, that he would stick to the

:31:43. > :31:44.teachings of the church. Because teachings of the church. Because

:31:44. > :31:45.teachings of the church. Because teachings of the church. Because

:31:45. > :31:46.they had seen him, up until then, they had seen him, up until then,

:31:46. > :31:48.they had seen him, up until then, they had seen him, up until then,

:31:48. > :31:49.as a liberal. Do you think the as a liberal. Do you think the

:31:49. > :31:51.as a liberal. Do you think the church needs to re-examine these

:31:51. > :31:52.church needs to re-examine these church needs to re-examine these

:31:52. > :31:54.issues. For example the whole issues. For example the whole

:31:54. > :31:56.issues. For example the whole question of celibacy? I think that

:31:56. > :31:57.question of celibacy? I think that question of celibacy? I think that

:31:57. > :31:58.question of celibacy? I think that there is an issue over celibacy. On

:31:58. > :32:02.there is an issue over celibacy. On there is an issue over celibacy. On

:32:02. > :32:04.there is an issue over celibacy. On the other hand, we have seen with

:32:04. > :32:04.the other hand, we have seen with the other hand, we have seen with

:32:04. > :32:05.some of the other scandals around some of the other scandals around

:32:05. > :32:06.some of the other scandals around some of the other scandals around

:32:07. > :32:09.at the moment, be it Lib Dems, or at the moment, be it Lib Dems, or

:32:09. > :32:12.at the moment, be it Lib Dems, or at the moment, be it Lib Dems, or

:32:12. > :32:12.things going on in the BBC or things going on in the BBC or

:32:12. > :32:14.things going on in the BBC or CheethamSchool of Music, that sex

:32:14. > :32:15.CheethamSchool of Music, that sex CheethamSchool of Music, that sex

:32:15. > :32:16.scandals are not only in the scandals are not only in the

:32:16. > :32:18.scandals are not only in the Catholic Church. I don't think

:32:18. > :32:19.Catholic Church. I don't think celibacy equals problems. However,

:32:19. > :32:20.celibacy equals problems. However, celibacy equals problems. However,

:32:20. > :32:22.celibacy is clearly something that celibacy is clearly something that

:32:22. > :32:22.celibacy is clearly something that is incredibly hard for many people.

:32:22. > :32:24.is incredibly hard for many people. is incredibly hard for many people.

:32:24. > :32:26.is incredibly hard for many people. One of the problems with it is that

:32:26. > :32:28.One of the problems with it is that One of the problems with it is that

:32:28. > :32:29.One of the problems with it is that the Catholic Church has lost a very

:32:29. > :32:30.the Catholic Church has lost a very the Catholic Church has lost a very

:32:30. > :32:31.the Catholic Church has lost a very lot of good priests who have left

:32:31. > :32:32.lot of good priests who have left lot of good priests who have left

:32:32. > :32:34.to get married. And priests are to get married. And priests are

:32:34. > :32:34.to get married. And priests are to get married. And priests are

:32:34. > :32:36.becoming a bit of a rare breed. becoming a bit of a rare breed.

:32:36. > :32:38.becoming a bit of a rare breed. becoming a bit of a rare breed.

:32:38. > :32:38.What about what is happening in the What about what is happening in the

:32:38. > :32:39.What about what is happening in the Vatican theself. We have seen

:32:39. > :32:40.Vatican theself. We have seen Vatican theself. We have seen

:32:40. > :32:41.several scandals at the moment, and several scandals at the moment, and

:32:41. > :32:43.several scandals at the moment, and several scandals at the moment, and

:32:43. > :32:44.of course we expect to be able to of course we expect to be able to

:32:44. > :32:44.of course we expect to be able to ask for transparency, and that has

:32:44. > :32:46.ask for transparency, and that has ask for transparency, and that has

:32:46. > :32:47.never been part of the currency, never been part of the currency,

:32:47. > :32:49.never been part of the currency, never been part of the currency,

:32:49. > :32:50.right? I think we have had too much right? I think we have had too much

:32:50. > :32:51.right? I think we have had too much transparency, in the sense that a

:32:51. > :32:52.transparency, in the sense that a transparency, in the sense that a

:32:53. > :32:54.whole load of things people would whole load of things people would

:32:54. > :32:54.whole load of things people would whole load of things people would

:32:54. > :32:56.have loved to have seen hidden and have loved to have seen hidden and

:32:56. > :32:57.have loved to have seen hidden and have loved to have seen hidden and

:32:57. > :32:58.remain hidden have come out in the remain hidden have come out in the

:32:59. > :32:59.remain hidden have come out in the wash. The bank, all these things,

:32:59. > :33:01.wash. The bank, all these things, wash. The bank, all these things,

:33:01. > :33:04.far too much information has come far too much information has come

:33:04. > :33:04.far too much information has come out. They are supposed to be

:33:05. > :33:05.out. They are supposed to be confidentiality clauses. It would

:33:05. > :33:07.confidentiality clauses. It would confidentiality clauses. It would

:33:07. > :33:09.confidentiality clauses. It would be better silent? I think so. What

:33:09. > :33:10.be better silent? I think so. What be better silent? I think so. What

:33:10. > :33:11.has happened is the Vatican has happened is the Vatican

:33:11. > :33:13.has happened is the Vatican bureaucracy is no longer fit for

:33:13. > :33:13.bureaucracy is no longer fit for bureaucracy is no longer fit for

:33:13. > :33:14.purpose. Most people recognise this. purpose. Most people recognise this.

:33:14. > :33:15.purpose. Most people recognise this. purpose. Most people recognise this.

:33:15. > :33:16.The first thing the new hope will The first thing the new hope will

:33:16. > :33:21.The first thing the new hope will The first thing the new hope will

:33:21. > :33:24.have to do is go in there and have to do is go in there and

:33:24. > :33:26.have to do is go in there and reform the Roman Couria. Do you

:33:26. > :33:28.reform the Roman Couria. Do you reform the Roman Couria. Do you

:33:28. > :33:29.want IRA forming Pope? Yes, Father want IRA forming Pope? Yes, Father

:33:29. > :33:31.want IRA forming Pope? Yes, Father want IRA forming Pope? Yes, Father

:33:31. > :33:32.Alexander has said that is one of Alexander has said that is one of

:33:32. > :33:33.Alexander has said that is one of the absolute priorities of the next

:33:33. > :33:34.the absolute priorities of the next the absolute priorities of the next

:33:34. > :33:35.papacy. That was the priority of papacy. That was the priority of

:33:36. > :33:37.the last one. the last one.

:33:37. > :33:38.the last one. the last one.

:33:38. > :33:39.Thank you very much. East calf is Thank you very much. East calf is

:33:39. > :33:41.Thank you very much. East calf is experiencing something of an en--

:33:41. > :33:43.experiencing something of an en-- experiencing something of an en--

:33:43. > :33:45.Africa is experiencing something of Africa is experiencing something of

:33:45. > :33:47.Africa is experiencing something of an energy revolution, two different

:33:47. > :33:50.an energy revolution, two different technologies are emerging. The

:33:50. > :33:51.technologies are emerging. The technologies are emerging. The

:33:51. > :33:52.biggest technology in Kenya is biggest technology in Kenya is

:33:52. > :33:56.biggest technology in Kenya is tapping huge reservoirs of steam as

:33:56. > :33:58.tapping huge reservoirs of steam as the country's massive geothermal

:33:58. > :34:02.the country's massive geothermal the country's massive geothermal

:34:02. > :34:03.resources are coming on stream. resources are coming on stream.

:34:03. > :34:04.resources are coming on stream. resources are coming on stream.

:34:04. > :34:11.Sales are soaring. We have been to Sales are soaring. We have been to

:34:11. > :34:15.Sales are soaring. We have been to Kenya to see the power surge.

:34:15. > :34:16.Kenya to see the power surge. Kenya to see the power surge.

:34:16. > :34:18.Kenya to see the power surge. The African Rift Valley. A split in

:34:18. > :34:20.The African Rift Valley. A split in The African Rift Valley. A split in

:34:20. > :34:21.the earth nearly 4,000 miles long. the earth nearly 4,000 miles long.

:34:21. > :34:22.the earth nearly 4,000 miles long. the earth nearly 4,000 miles long.

:34:22. > :34:28.The cradle of mankind and now the The cradle of mankind and now the

:34:28. > :34:34.The cradle of mankind and now the birth place of an energy revolution.

:34:34. > :34:35.birth place of an energy revolution. birth place of an energy revolution.

:34:35. > :34:38.birth place of an energy revolution. This is Kenya. A place where the

:34:38. > :34:40.This is Kenya. A place where the This is Kenya. A place where the

:34:40. > :34:42.land collapsed as the crust tore land collapsed as the crust tore

:34:42. > :34:43.land collapsed as the crust tore apart. This crater was once the

:34:43. > :34:45.apart. This crater was once the apart. This crater was once the

:34:45. > :34:46.scene of regular volcanic eruptions, scene of regular volcanic eruptions,

:34:46. > :34:48.scene of regular volcanic eruptions, scene of regular volcanic eruptions,

:34:48. > :34:53.at least the size of crack toe what, at least the size of crack toe what,

:34:54. > :34:55.at least the size of crack toe what, shooting rocks like this -- Kratoa,

:34:55. > :34:59.shooting rocks like this -- Kratoa, shooting rocks like this -- Kratoa,

:34:59. > :35:00.shooting rocks like this into the shooting rocks like this into the

:35:00. > :35:02.shooting rocks like this into the shooting rocks like this into the

:35:02. > :35:04.air, a whole caldron of ash and air, a whole caldron of ash and

:35:04. > :35:06.air, a whole caldron of ash and molten lava. Now that very same

:35:06. > :35:07.molten lava. Now that very same molten lava. Now that very same

:35:07. > :35:09.power is being harnessed for energy power is being harnessed for energy

:35:09. > :35:10.power is being harnessed for energy power is being harnessed for energy

:35:10. > :35:11.for Africa. This is home to the for Africa. This is home to the

:35:11. > :35:12.for Africa. This is home to the for Africa. This is home to the

:35:12. > :35:14.power hungry. With a few shops and power hungry. With a few shops and

:35:14. > :35:18.power hungry. With a few shops and power hungry. With a few shops and

:35:18. > :35:20.farms, life goes on, but not as we farms, life goes on, but not as we

:35:20. > :35:25.know it. Without electricity know it. Without electricity

:35:25. > :35:27.aspirations are cut short. aspirations are cut short.

:35:27. > :35:30.aspirations are cut short. Sylvester works by hand, slow for

:35:30. > :35:33.Sylvester works by hand, slow for him, unpopular and occasionally

:35:33. > :35:35.him, unpopular and occasionally painful for customers.

:35:35. > :35:35.painful for customers. painful for customers.

:35:35. > :35:45.painful for customers. His aunt makes clothes by hand. And

:35:45. > :35:46.

:35:46. > :35:47.foot. foot.

:35:47. > :35:48.foot. foot.

:35:48. > :35:49.foot. What Can you do for me? I can shave

:35:49. > :35:50.What Can you do for me? I can shave What Can you do for me? I can shave

:35:50. > :35:52.What Can you do for me? I can shave you. Not too much.There is another

:35:52. > :35:54.you. Not too much.There is another you. Not too much.There is another

:35:54. > :35:55.business in my mind, a vision business in my mind, a vision

:35:55. > :35:59.business in my mind, a vision whereby on getting electricity, I

:35:59. > :36:00.whereby on getting electricity, I whereby on getting electricity, I

:36:00. > :36:02.may start welding. Welding?Welding. may start welding. Welding?Welding.

:36:02. > :36:03.may start welding. Welding?Welding. You are a businessman with ideas.

:36:03. > :36:05.You are a businessman with ideas. You are a businessman with ideas.

:36:05. > :36:07.You are a businessman with ideas. But you can't get on, how does that

:36:07. > :36:09.But you can't get on, how does that happen? Without electricity I'm

:36:09. > :36:10.happen? Without electricity I'm happen? Without electricity I'm

:36:10. > :36:11.happen? Without electricity I'm very much board. For I have the

:36:11. > :36:17.very much board. For I have the very much board. For I have the

:36:17. > :36:18.ability, but I have no power. ability, but I have no power.

:36:18. > :36:19.ability, but I have no power. ability, but I have no power.

:36:19. > :36:21.Very neat, but not sure about the Very neat, but not sure about the

:36:21. > :36:22.Very neat, but not sure about the choir boy look. This on-line

:36:22. > :36:24.choir boy look. This on-line choir boy look. This on-line

:36:24. > :36:25.magazine depends on electricity for magazine depends on electricity for

:36:25. > :36:28.magazine depends on electricity for its very existence, yet its creator,

:36:28. > :36:30.its very existence, yet its creator, its very existence, yet its creator,

:36:30. > :36:31.Peter, finds grid power unreliable. Peter, finds grid power unreliable.

:36:31. > :36:32.Peter, finds grid power unreliable. A surge once killed his computer.

:36:32. > :36:34.A surge once killed his computer. A surge once killed his computer.

:36:34. > :36:37.A surge once killed his computer. The lack of power is choking his

:36:37. > :36:39.The lack of power is choking his The lack of power is choking his

:36:39. > :36:41.ambitions. I compare it to a ambitions. I compare it to a

:36:41. > :36:42.ambitions. I compare it to a ambitions. I compare it to a

:36:42. > :36:42.student who doesn't have a book or student who doesn't have a book or

:36:42. > :36:44.student who doesn't have a book or pen. Electricity drives all our

:36:44. > :36:45.pen. Electricity drives all our pen. Electricity drives all our

:36:45. > :36:46.equipment, from the phones, the equipment, from the phones, the

:36:46. > :36:47.equipment, from the phones, the Internet connections we have, and

:36:47. > :36:48.Internet connections we have, and Internet connections we have, and

:36:48. > :36:51.Internet connections we have, and the computers that we use. It is

:36:51. > :36:56.the computers that we use. It is the computers that we use. It is

:36:56. > :36:59.very important at a time whener very important at a time whener

:36:59. > :37:01.very important at a time whener exploding when we are exploding in

:37:01. > :37:02.exploding when we are exploding in internet usage. The entrepeneurs

:37:02. > :37:03.internet usage. The entrepeneurs internet usage. The entrepeneurs

:37:03. > :37:05.have to be savvy and conducting have to be savvy and conducting

:37:05. > :37:08.their business transactions at their business transactions at

:37:08. > :37:09.their business transactions at night. This place, known as Hell's

:37:09. > :37:12.night. This place, known as Hell's night. This place, known as Hell's

:37:12. > :37:14.Gate, could deliver the power they crave.

:37:14. > :37:16.crave. crave.

:37:16. > :37:19.crave. The earth is still young here, as

:37:19. > :37:20.The earth is still young here, as The earth is still young here, as

:37:20. > :37:21.The earth is still young here, as the rift rally widens crack -- Rift

:37:21. > :37:22.the rift rally widens crack -- Rift the rift rally widens crack -- Rift

:37:23. > :37:24.Valley widens and the heat escapes Valley widens and the heat escapes

:37:24. > :37:26.Valley widens and the heat escapes Valley widens and the heat escapes

:37:26. > :37:27.to the surface. You can smell the to the surface. You can smell the

:37:27. > :37:28.to the surface. You can smell the sulfur here, and the rocks, toastie.

:37:28. > :37:31.sulfur here, and the rocks, toastie. sulfur here, and the rocks, toastie.

:37:31. > :37:32.They are drilling to discover we They are drilling to discover we

:37:32. > :37:33.They are drilling to discover we wills of super-heated water, under

:37:33. > :37:34.wills of super-heated water, under wills of super-heated water, under

:37:34. > :37:36.massive pressure. Once found the massive pressure. Once found the

:37:36. > :37:38.massive pressure. Once found the massive pressure. Once found the

:37:38. > :37:39.steam is piped up into turbines to steam is piped up into turbines to

:37:39. > :37:40.generate electricity. We are generate electricity. We are

:37:40. > :37:41.generate electricity. We are generate electricity. We are

:37:41. > :37:42.drilling and we are using water and drilling and we are using water and

:37:42. > :37:44.drilling and we are using water and the circulation medium to subdue

:37:44. > :37:45.the circulation medium to subdue the circulation medium to subdue

:37:45. > :37:48.the pressure and temperatures to the pressure and temperatures to

:37:48. > :37:51.the pressure and temperatures to enable us to drill ahead. Daniel

:37:51. > :37:53.enable us to drill ahead. Daniel enable us to drill ahead. Daniel

:37:53. > :37:55.leads the hunt. This is something leads the hunt. This is something

:37:55. > :37:56.leads the hunt. This is something leads the hunt. This is something

:37:56. > :37:56.that can put power on-line as fast that can put power on-line as fast

:37:56. > :37:57.that can put power on-line as fast as possible, geothermal is doing

:37:57. > :37:58.as possible, geothermal is doing as possible, geothermal is doing

:37:58. > :37:59.as possible, geothermal is doing that for us. Everyone is trying to

:37:59. > :38:00.that for us. Everyone is trying to that for us. Everyone is trying to

:38:00. > :38:01.that for us. Everyone is trying to find out what is going on in the

:38:01. > :38:02.find out what is going on in the find out what is going on in the

:38:02. > :38:03.power sector. We are having people power sector. We are having people

:38:03. > :38:04.power sector. We are having people power sector. We are having people

:38:04. > :38:05.coming from all over Kenya and the coming from all over Kenya and the

:38:05. > :38:06.coming from all over Kenya and the coming from all over Kenya and the

:38:06. > :38:07.world to see what we are doing in world to see what we are doing in

:38:07. > :38:08.world to see what we are doing in world to see what we are doing in

:38:08. > :38:09.geothermal. It is a huge scale what geothermal. It is a huge scale what

:38:09. > :38:11.geothermal. It is a huge scale what geothermal. It is a huge scale what

:38:11. > :38:12.you are doing here? Yes it is. you are doing here? Yes it is.

:38:12. > :38:13.you are doing here? Yes it is. Because it is a single biggest

:38:13. > :38:17.Because it is a single biggest Because it is a single biggest

:38:17. > :38:21.investment in Kenya. It will cost investment in Kenya. It will cost

:38:21. > :38:23.investment in Kenya. It will cost about $1.3 billion US. It has

:38:23. > :38:24.about $1.3 billion US. It has about $1.3 billion US. It has

:38:24. > :38:26.generated excitement all over. generated excitement all over.

:38:26. > :38:29.generated excitement all over. drill is bothering down two miles

:38:29. > :38:30.drill is bothering down two miles drill is bothering down two miles

:38:30. > :38:32.drill is bothering down two miles into the earth, -- boring down two

:38:32. > :38:33.into the earth, -- boring down two into the earth, -- boring down two

:38:33. > :38:34.miles into the earth, there are miles into the earth, there are

:38:34. > :38:36.miles into the earth, there are miles into the earth, there are

:38:37. > :38:38.eight of these drills at the moment, eight of these drills at the moment,

:38:38. > :38:39.eight of these drills at the moment, eight of these drills at the moment,

:38:39. > :38:40.they want to drill over 100 wells. they want to drill over 100 wells.

:38:40. > :38:41.they want to drill over 100 wells. they want to drill over 100 wells.

:38:41. > :38:42.When they hit a reservoir of water When they hit a reservoir of water

:38:42. > :38:45.When they hit a reservoir of water When they hit a reservoir of water

:38:45. > :38:46.and get a pipe in, the results are spectacular.

:38:46. > :38:48.spectacular. spectacular.

:38:48. > :38:49.spectacular. That is so much more than just a

:38:49. > :38:51.That is so much more than just a That is so much more than just a

:38:51. > :38:52.deafening roar. It is an elemental deafening roar. It is an elemental

:38:52. > :38:53.deafening roar. It is an elemental power that makes the ground tremble

:38:53. > :38:54.power that makes the ground tremble power that makes the ground tremble

:38:54. > :39:01.power that makes the ground tremble and shakes your chest. Truly it is

:39:01. > :39:03.and shakes your chest. Truly it is a force of nature.

:39:03. > :39:05.a force of nature. a force of nature.

:39:05. > :39:06.Taming that force requires roads, Taming that force requires roads,

:39:06. > :39:07.Taming that force requires roads, pipelines and big earth moving.

:39:07. > :39:09.pipelines and big earth moving. pipelines and big earth moving.

:39:09. > :39:10.Scaring what is a National Park. Scaring what is a National Park.

:39:10. > :39:14.Scaring what is a National Park. But the developers insist they will

:39:14. > :39:15.But the developers insist they will But the developers insist they will

:39:15. > :39:17.restore it. The scalding water and restore it. The scalding water and

:39:17. > :39:19.restore it. The scalding water and steam come here to turn turbines

:39:19. > :39:19.steam come here to turn turbines steam come here to turn turbines

:39:19. > :39:21.and make electricity. This power and make electricity. This power

:39:21. > :39:22.and make electricity. This power and make electricity. This power

:39:22. > :39:24.station has been going for 20 years. station has been going for 20 years.

:39:24. > :39:25.station has been going for 20 years. But the new wells being drilled

:39:25. > :39:27.But the new wells being drilled But the new wells being drilled

:39:27. > :39:29.But the new wells being drilled will need a far bigger power plant.

:39:29. > :39:31.will need a far bigger power plant. will need a far bigger power plant.

:39:31. > :39:33.As this geothermal field alone will As this geothermal field alone will

:39:33. > :39:35.As this geothermal field alone will produce more than Kenya's entire

:39:35. > :39:35.produce more than Kenya's entire produce more than Kenya's entire

:39:35. > :39:38.current electricity output and more current electricity output and more

:39:38. > :39:39.current electricity output and more are being explored. Power is the

:39:39. > :39:40.are being explored. Power is the are being explored. Power is the

:39:40. > :39:42.engine for the Government. And we engine for the Government. And we

:39:42. > :39:44.engine for the Government. And we are really looking at geothermal

:39:44. > :39:45.are really looking at geothermal are really looking at geothermal

:39:45. > :39:46.being really the driver for that being really the driver for that

:39:46. > :39:47.being really the driver for that expansion that we need to have

:39:47. > :39:48.expansion that we need to have expansion that we need to have

:39:48. > :39:50.enough power in this country to enough power in this country to

:39:50. > :39:52.enough power in this country to drive the economy, and therefore

:39:52. > :39:53.drive the economy, and therefore drive the economy, and therefore

:39:53. > :39:55.achieve our vision. The picture achieve our vision. The picture

:39:55. > :39:57.achieve our vision. The picture achieve our vision. The picture

:39:57. > :39:58.will look very green in ten years will look very green in ten years

:39:58. > :40:00.will look very green in ten years will look very green in ten years

:40:00. > :40:02.time. We reckon about 07% of our time. We reckon about 07% of our

:40:02. > :40:03.time. We reckon about 07% of our power supply will come from green

:40:03. > :40:05.power supply will come from green power supply will come from green

:40:05. > :40:06.power supply will come from green sources. That is a figure that most

:40:06. > :40:07.sources. That is a figure that most sources. That is a figure that most

:40:07. > :40:10.western countries will really envy. western countries will really envy.

:40:10. > :40:14.western countries will really envy. We have the natural resources, wind,

:40:14. > :40:15.We have the natural resources, wind, solar, geothermals. But making

:40:15. > :40:16.solar, geothermals. But making solar, geothermals. But making

:40:16. > :40:16.electricity is only half of electricity is only half of

:40:16. > :40:18.electricity is only half of Africa's problem, how do you

:40:18. > :40:20.Africa's problem, how do you Africa's problem, how do you

:40:20. > :40:30.deliver it. Only one third of deliver it. Only one third of

:40:30. > :40:30.

:40:30. > :40:32.deliver it. Only one third of Kenya's population have mains power.

:40:32. > :40:33.Kenya's population have mains power. Kenya's population have mains power.

:40:33. > :40:35.Kenya's population have mains power. As night falls in the village, Lina

:40:35. > :40:36.As night falls in the village, Lina As night falls in the village, Lina

:40:36. > :40:40.As night falls in the village, Lina makes the tea, while her boys do

:40:40. > :40:42.makes the tea, while her boys do makes the tea, while her boys do

:40:42. > :40:44.their homework. Light for both their homework. Light for both

:40:44. > :40:47.their homework. Light for both comes from burning pricey paraffin.

:40:47. > :40:51.comes from burning pricey paraffin. comes from burning pricey paraffin.

:40:51. > :40:53.comes from burning pricey paraffin. How much does it cost you? 100

:40:53. > :40:53.How much does it cost you? 100 How much does it cost you? 100

:40:53. > :40:55.How much does it cost you? 100 shillings in a week. That is 80p

:40:55. > :40:56.shillings in a week. That is 80p shillings in a week. That is 80p

:40:56. > :40:58.she would like to save. And she would like to save. And

:40:58. > :40:59.she would like to save. And paraffin comes with health CoS too.

:40:59. > :41:01.paraffin comes with health CoS too. paraffin comes with health CoS too.

:41:01. > :41:07.An evening's lighting produces as An evening's lighting produces as

:41:07. > :41:09.An evening's lighting produces as much pollution as 40 cigarettes.

:41:09. > :41:10.much pollution as 40 cigarettes. much pollution as 40 cigarettes.

:41:10. > :41:12.much pollution as 40 cigarettes. But there is one source of energy

:41:12. > :41:22.But there is one source of energy But there is one source of energy

:41:22. > :41:24.

:41:24. > :41:25.that powers the parts that others that powers the parts that others

:41:25. > :41:26.that powers the parts that others that powers the parts that others

:41:26. > :41:27.cannot reach. The sun is coming and cannot reach. The sun is coming and

:41:27. > :41:34.cannot reach. The sun is coming and cannot reach. The sun is coming and

:41:34. > :41:35.the solar roller is on the road. the solar roller is on the road.

:41:35. > :41:37.the solar roller is on the road. Delivering the next batch of solar

:41:37. > :41:38.Delivering the next batch of solar Delivering the next batch of solar

:41:38. > :41:40.lights to remote villages. Sales of lights to remote villages. Sales of

:41:40. > :41:42.lights to remote villages. Sales of these in Africa are more than

:41:43. > :41:51.these in Africa are more than these in Africa are more than

:41:51. > :41:52.doubling every year. Driven by doubling every year. Driven by

:41:52. > :41:54.doubling every year. Driven by plummeting prices. Yes a couple of

:41:54. > :41:55.plummeting prices. Yes a couple of plummeting prices. Yes a couple of

:41:55. > :41:57.plummeting prices. Yes a couple of years ago, within one year we used

:41:57. > :41:58.years ago, within one year we used years ago, within one year we used

:41:58. > :42:00.years ago, within one year we used to sell about 7,000 lights. In 2012

:42:00. > :42:01.to sell about 7,000 lights. In 2012 to sell about 7,000 lights. In 2012

:42:01. > :42:02.to sell about 7,000 lights. In 2012 we did a record of about 20,000

:42:02. > :42:05.we did a record of about 20,000 we did a record of about 20,000

:42:05. > :42:06.lights, within one month. That is lights, within one month. That is

:42:06. > :42:08.lights, within one month. That is four weeks. Every part of solar

:42:08. > :42:10.four weeks. Every part of solar four weeks. Every part of solar

:42:10. > :42:13.technology has got cheaper and technology has got cheaper and

:42:13. > :42:17.technology has got cheaper and better. Panels, bat trees and LED

:42:17. > :42:19.better. Panels, bat trees and LED better. Panels, bat trees and LED

:42:19. > :42:25.bulbs, turning -- batteries and LED bulbs, turning -- batteries and LED

:42:25. > :42:26.bulbs turning into affordable products.

:42:26. > :42:28.products. products.

:42:28. > :42:38.Customers listen to the pitch, but Customers listen to the pitch, but

:42:38. > :42:39.

:42:39. > :42:41.Customers listen to the pitch, but really thrilled to the demo.

:42:41. > :42:43.really thrilled to the demo. really thrilled to the demo.

:42:44. > :42:44.It is still working, isn't it. It is still working, isn't it.

:42:44. > :42:46.It is still working, isn't it. It is still working, isn't it.

:42:46. > :42:47.Sales are brisk. Most of the buyers Sales are brisk. Most of the buyers

:42:47. > :42:51.are teachers, shopping for are teachers, shopping for

:42:51. > :42:53.themselves and parents. themselves and parents.

:42:53. > :42:57.themselves and parents. themselves and parents.

:42:57. > :42:59.At a nearby school, you can see the At a nearby school, you can see the

:42:59. > :43:01.At a nearby school, you can see the attraction. During the break, I

:43:01. > :43:02.attraction. During the break, I attraction. During the break, I

:43:02. > :43:03.catch up with headteacher Stanly, catch up with headteacher Stanly,

:43:03. > :43:05.catch up with headteacher Stanly, who has distributed over 1,000

:43:05. > :43:10.who has distributed over 1,000 who has distributed over 1,000

:43:10. > :43:11.lights to his pupils' families. lights to his pupils' families.

:43:11. > :43:12.lights to his pupils' families. gives them extra time reading in

:43:12. > :43:13.gives them extra time reading in gives them extra time reading in

:43:13. > :43:15.gives them extra time reading in the night. That is why the school

:43:15. > :43:17.the night. That is why the school the night. That is why the school

:43:17. > :43:18.the night. That is why the school is coming up from where it was.

:43:19. > :43:20.is coming up from where it was. is coming up from where it was.

:43:20. > :43:21.is coming up from where it was. can put it down to the solar lights.

:43:21. > :43:23.can put it down to the solar lights. can put it down to the solar lights.

:43:23. > :43:24.Your results have improved? It has Your results have improved? It has

:43:24. > :43:25.Your results have improved? It has improved, yeah. You think it is

:43:25. > :43:26.improved, yeah. You think it is improved, yeah. You think it is

:43:26. > :43:30.improved, yeah. You think it is down to lots of people having light

:43:30. > :43:31.down to lots of people having light down to lots of people having light

:43:31. > :43:32.at home? Yeah. After buying this at home? Yeah. After buying this

:43:32. > :43:34.at home? Yeah. After buying this at home? Yeah. After buying this

:43:34. > :43:36.one the children are now coming up one the children are now coming up

:43:36. > :43:38.one the children are now coming up one the children are now coming up

:43:38. > :43:42.with good marks. So they can change their lives.

:43:42. > :43:45.their lives. their lives.

:43:45. > :43:46.their lives. Here is a star pupil. In recent

:43:46. > :43:50.Here is a star pupil. In recent Here is a star pupil. In recent

:43:50. > :43:51.Here is a star pupil. In recent exams Enoch came 55th in the whole

:43:51. > :43:51.exams Enoch came 55th in the whole exams Enoch came 55th in the whole

:43:51. > :43:55.of Kenya. He's a modest character. of Kenya. He's a modest character.

:43:55. > :43:56.of Kenya. He's a modest character. of Kenya. He's a modest character.

:43:56. > :43:57.Yes I did very well. His prospects Yes I did very well. His prospects

:43:57. > :43:59.Yes I did very well. His prospects brightened last year when his

:43:59. > :44:00.brightened last year when his brightened last year when his

:44:00. > :44:03.brightened last year when his mother bought him a light. You will

:44:03. > :44:06.mother bought him a light. You will mother bought him a light. You will

:44:06. > :44:08.limbating the dreams of a teenage limbating the dreams of a teenage

:44:08. > :44:08.limbating the dreams of a teenage boy with an appetite for study.

:44:09. > :44:09.boy with an appetite for study. boy with an appetite for study.

:44:09. > :44:12.boy with an appetite for study. Before there was daylight I used to

:44:12. > :44:13.Before there was daylight I used to Before there was daylight I used to

:44:13. > :44:14.Before there was daylight I used to read up until 7.00 only, when it

:44:14. > :44:17.read up until 7.00 only, when it read up until 7.00 only, when it

:44:17. > :44:19.read up until 7.00 only, when it was bought I read up to 10.00.

:44:19. > :44:22.was bought I read up to 10.00. was bought I read up to 10.00.

:44:22. > :44:25.three more hours of reading every three more hours of reading every

:44:25. > :44:26.three more hours of reading every night. You have got very good

:44:26. > :44:27.night. You have got very good night. You have got very good

:44:27. > :44:28.night. You have got very good results. What do you want to do in

:44:28. > :44:30.results. What do you want to do in results. What do you want to do in

:44:30. > :44:31.results. What do you want to do in your future, what is your hope?

:44:31. > :44:41.your future, what is your hope? your future, what is your hope?

:44:41. > :44:48.

:44:48. > :44:49.The economy of Kenya, like many The economy of Kenya, like many

:44:49. > :44:51.The economy of Kenya, like many African countries, is picking up.

:44:51. > :44:52.African countries, is picking up. African countries, is picking up.

:44:52. > :44:54.African countries, is picking up. Last year's growth rate of 4-5% is

:44:54. > :44:57.Last year's growth rate of 4-5% is Last year's growth rate of 4-5% is

:44:57. > :44:59.something Britain can only dream of. something Britain can only dream of.

:44:59. > :45:01.something Britain can only dream of. Demand for electricity is insatible.

:45:01. > :45:02.Demand for electricity is insatible. Demand for electricity is insatible.

:45:02. > :45:03.But if geothermal is going to But if geothermal is going to

:45:03. > :45:04.But if geothermal is going to generate most of the watts to

:45:04. > :45:06.generate most of the watts to generate most of the watts to

:45:06. > :45:12.brighten the future, it will need brighten the future, it will need

:45:13. > :45:14.brighten the future, it will need huge amounts of money. �12-20

:45:14. > :45:17.huge amounts of money. �12-20 huge amounts of money. �12-20

:45:17. > :45:18.billion across the country. Here at billion across the country. Here at

:45:18. > :45:20.billion across the country. Here at the African Development Bank, they

:45:20. > :45:21.the African Development Bank, they the African Development Bank, they

:45:21. > :45:22.are charged with ensuring that are charged with ensuring that

:45:22. > :45:24.are charged with ensuring that investment isn't snuffed out.

:45:24. > :45:26.investment isn't snuffed out. investment isn't snuffed out.

:45:26. > :45:29.you are running a small you are running a small

:45:29. > :45:32.hairdressers or small photocopying hairdressers or small photocopying

:45:32. > :45:34.hairdressers or small photocopying hairdressers or small photocopying

:45:34. > :45:34.shop, to a large factory, energy is shop, to a large factory, energy is

:45:34. > :45:35.shop, to a large factory, energy is shop, to a large factory, energy is

:45:35. > :45:37.the major drain. This could be a the major drain. This could be a

:45:37. > :45:39.large economic zone exporting large economic zone exporting

:45:39. > :45:42.large economic zone exporting consumption, it could be a robust

:45:42. > :45:43.consumption, it could be a robust economy with factories, with

:45:43. > :45:44.economy with factories, with universities, with full economic

:45:44. > :45:46.universities, with full economic universities, with full economic

:45:46. > :45:49.universities, with full economic activities. And all of it will be

:45:49. > :45:50.activities. And all of it will be activities. And all of it will be

:45:50. > :45:52.powered by geothermal and renewable powered by geothermal and renewable

:45:52. > :45:53.powered by geothermal and renewable powered by geothermal and renewable

:45:53. > :45:54.energy. As they say what was once energy. As they say what was once

:45:54. > :45:55.energy. As they say what was once the dark continent will hence forth

:45:55. > :45:56.the dark continent will hence forth the dark continent will hence forth

:45:56. > :45:57.be known as the brightest continent. be known as the brightest continent.

:45:57. > :45:58.be known as the brightest continent. be known as the brightest continent.

:45:58. > :46:08.That will be the reason for all of That will be the reason for all of

:46:08. > :46:09.us to celebrate. us to celebrate.

:46:09. > :46:11.Britain's steam-powered move into Britain's steam-powered move into

:46:11. > :46:13.Britain's steam-powered move into the industrial age relied on a

:46:13. > :46:18.the industrial age relied on a the industrial age relied on a

:46:18. > :46:19.geological luck of abundant coal. geological luck of abundant coal.

:46:19. > :46:19.geological luck of abundant coal. What lies beneath the Rift Valley

:46:20. > :46:21.What lies beneath the Rift Valley What lies beneath the Rift Valley

:46:21. > :46:22.What lies beneath the Rift Valley could do the same for East Africa,

:46:22. > :46:24.could do the same for East Africa, could do the same for East Africa,

:46:24. > :46:26.driving a seismic shift in the driving a seismic shift in the

:46:26. > :46:27.driving a seismic shift in the fortunes of its people. Just time

:46:27. > :46:37.fortunes of its people. Just time fortunes of its people. Just time

:46:37. > :47:06.

:47:06. > :47:07.to take you through the papers That's all from us tomorrow. Kirsty

:47:07. > :47:08.That's all from us tomorrow. Kirsty That's all from us tomorrow. Kirsty

:47:08. > :47:09.has a special programme, ten years has a special programme, ten years

:47:09. > :47:10.has a special programme, ten years has a special programme, ten years

:47:10. > :47:11.on from the Iraq War. We will hear on from the Iraq War. We will hear