04/03/2013

:00:12. > :00:13.Tonight, tales of hardship and hope Tonight, tales of hardship and hope

:00:13. > :00:15.Tonight, tales of hardship and hope from the frontline of benefit

:00:15. > :00:17.from the frontline of benefit from the frontline of benefit

:00:17. > :00:18.from the frontline of benefit reform. I told them I had cancer,

:00:18. > :00:19.reform. I told them I had cancer, reform. I told them I had cancer,

:00:19. > :00:21.reform. I told them I had cancer, they said they it is not my problem

:00:21. > :00:22.they said they it is not my problem they said they it is not my problem

:00:22. > :00:23.they said they it is not my problem that you have cancer, that I would

:00:23. > :00:25.that you have cancer, that I would that you have cancer, that I would

:00:25. > :00:26.have to do the forms myself. have to do the forms myself.

:00:27. > :00:29.have to do the forms myself. Newsnight has an exclusive glimpse

:00:29. > :00:29.Newsnight has an exclusive glimpse Newsnight has an exclusive glimpse

:00:29. > :00:31.behind the scenes at the Citizens behind the scenes at the Citizens

:00:31. > :00:31.Advice Bureau, increasingly picking Advice Bureau, increasingly picking

:00:31. > :00:34.Advice Bureau, increasingly picking Advice Bureau, increasingly picking

:00:34. > :00:35.up the pieces when the state can't or won't.

:00:35. > :00:36.or won't. or won't.

:00:36. > :00:38.or won't. The staff at the bureau raise money

:00:38. > :00:39.The staff at the bureau raise money The staff at the bureau raise money

:00:39. > :00:41.through sponsored walks and raffles through sponsored walks and raffles

:00:41. > :00:42.through sponsored walks and raffles so we could meet that immediate

:00:42. > :00:43.so we could meet that immediate so we could meet that immediate

:00:43. > :00:43.need. I hope people don't think need. I hope people don't think

:00:43. > :00:44.need. I hope people don't think need. I hope people don't think

:00:44. > :00:45.that is Big Society, that is what that is Big Society, that is what

:00:45. > :00:46.that is Big Society, that is what the state should be about.

:00:46. > :00:46.the state should be about. the state should be about.

:00:46. > :00:47.the state should be about. Have you heard the one about banks

:00:47. > :00:48.Have you heard the one about banks Have you heard the one about banks

:00:48. > :00:49.Have you heard the one about banks who get Government money to lend to

:00:49. > :00:50.who get Government money to lend to who get Government money to lend to

:00:50. > :00:51.businesses and then don't. It is businesses and then don't. It is

:00:51. > :00:52.businesses and then don't. It is businesses and then don't. It is

:00:52. > :00:53.businesses and then don't. It is not a joke and it is not funny. So

:00:53. > :00:54.not a joke and it is not funny. So not a joke and it is not funny. So

:00:54. > :00:57.does the Business Secretary get it? does the Business Secretary get it?

:00:57. > :00:59.does the Business Secretary get it? We will find out shortly.

:00:59. > :01:00.We will find out shortly. An astounding possible breakthrough

:01:00. > :01:02.An astounding possible breakthrough An astounding possible breakthrough

:01:02. > :01:03.on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected

:01:03. > :01:04.on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected on HIV-AIDS, the baby ifpb effected

:01:04. > :01:05.by the virus, but now appears to be by the virus, but now appears to be

:01:05. > :01:06.by the virus, but now appears to be sured. Is this really the medical

:01:06. > :01:09.sured. Is this really the medical sured. Is this really the medical

:01:09. > :01:10.advance the headlines would have us believe.

:01:10. > :01:11.believe. believe.

:01:11. > :01:12.Also tonight, Sound City. We got Also tonight, Sound City. We got

:01:12. > :01:13.Also tonight, Sound City. We got Also tonight, Sound City. We got

:01:13. > :01:15.there and it was a total dump, we there and it was a total dump, we

:01:15. > :01:16.there and it was a total dump, we recorded one song and we realised

:01:16. > :01:16.recorded one song and we realised recorded one song and we realised

:01:16. > :01:19.recorded one song and we realised why this place was so special. The

:01:19. > :01:21.why this place was so special. The sound was incredible.

:01:21. > :01:22.sound was incredible. # Entertain us

:01:22. > :01:23.# Entertain us # Entertain us

:01:23. > :01:26.# Here we are now # Here we are now

:01:26. > :01:27.# Entertain us # Entertain us

:01:27. > :01:27.# Entertain us # Entertain us

:01:28. > :01:37.Nirvana's Dave Grohl on why the old Nirvana's Dave Grohl on why the old

:01:38. > :01:38.

:01:38. > :01:40.Nirvana's Dave Grohl on why the old Good evening, part of the idea

:01:40. > :01:41.Good evening, part of the idea Good evening, part of the idea

:01:41. > :01:43.behind David Cameron's Big Society behind David Cameron's Big Society

:01:43. > :01:43.behind David Cameron's Big Society was that volunteers would help make

:01:43. > :01:44.was that volunteers would help make was that volunteers would help make

:01:44. > :01:45.was that volunteers would help make Britain better in all kinds of ways.

:01:45. > :01:46.Britain better in all kinds of ways. Britain better in all kinds of ways.

:01:46. > :01:48.Well, of course, they have been Well, of course, they have been

:01:48. > :01:49.Well, of course, they have been doing precisely that for years.

:01:49. > :01:51.doing precisely that for years. doing precisely that for years.

:01:51. > :01:52.Some might say, for centuries. One Some might say, for centuries. One

:01:52. > :01:53.organisation in particular, organisation in particular,

:01:53. > :01:54.organisation in particular, Citizens Advice, has been a back

:01:54. > :01:55.Citizens Advice, has been a back Citizens Advice, has been a back

:01:55. > :01:57.Citizens Advice, has been a back stop for millions of us over the

:01:57. > :01:57.stop for millions of us over the stop for millions of us over the

:01:57. > :01:59.years. While demand for their years. While demand for their

:01:59. > :02:01.years. While demand for their services has gone up massively in

:02:01. > :02:02.services has gone up massively in services has gone up massively in

:02:02. > :02:04.the past few years, funding has the past few years, funding has

:02:04. > :02:07.the past few years, funding has been cut. With reforms to welfare

:02:07. > :02:08.been cut. With reforms to welfare been cut. With reforms to welfare

:02:08. > :02:09.under way, citizens advice foresees under way, citizens advice foresees

:02:09. > :02:11.under way, citizens advice foresees greater demand, including from some

:02:11. > :02:13.greater demand, including from some greater demand, including from some

:02:13. > :02:15.of Britain's most vulnerable people, of Britain's most vulnerable people,

:02:15. > :02:16.of Britain's most vulnerable people, those terminally ill from cancer.

:02:16. > :02:17.those terminally ill from cancer. those terminally ill from cancer.

:02:17. > :02:19.those terminally ill from cancer. We have been given access to one

:02:19. > :02:21.We have been given access to one We have been given access to one

:02:21. > :02:23.Citizens Advice Bureau in Coventry. Citizens Advice Bureau in Coventry.

:02:23. > :02:25.Citizens Advice Bureau in Coventry. We have documented some of the

:02:25. > :02:25.We have documented some of the We have documented some of the

:02:25. > :02:29.We have documented some of the lives of the people that they help

:02:29. > :02:30.there. there.

:02:30. > :02:32.there. there.

:02:32. > :02:37.I have been a volunteer in the I have been a volunteer in the

:02:38. > :02:39.I have been a volunteer in the I have been a volunteer in the

:02:39. > :02:41.bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75. bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75.

:02:41. > :02:46.bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75. bureau for almost ten years. I'm 75.

:02:46. > :02:47.I was a miner for around about 20- I was a miner for around about 20-

:02:47. > :02:49.I was a miner for around about 20- 25 years. My daughter's on

:02:49. > :02:52.25 years. My daughter's on 25 years. My daughter's on

:02:52. > :02:54.reception, I have also a grandson reception, I have also a grandson

:02:54. > :02:58.reception, I have also a grandson that volunteers here on a Wednesday.

:02:58. > :03:00.that volunteers here on a Wednesday. that volunteers here on a Wednesday.

:03:00. > :03:02.He's still at school. Number two He's still at school. Number two

:03:02. > :03:04.He's still at school. Number two please? Number two? We have about

:03:04. > :03:08.please? Number two? We have about please? Number two? We have about

:03:08. > :03:09.100 volunteers, and about 50 paid 100 volunteers, and about 50 paid

:03:09. > :03:10.100 volunteers, and about 50 paid staff now. We have had massive

:03:10. > :03:11.staff now. We have had massive staff now. We have had massive

:03:11. > :03:12.increase in the people coming to increase in the people coming to

:03:12. > :03:13.increase in the people coming to increase in the people coming to

:03:13. > :03:14.see us, in the last three or four see us, in the last three or four

:03:14. > :03:15.see us, in the last three or four see us, in the last three or four

:03:15. > :03:16.years, we have had a 300% increase years, we have had a 300% increase

:03:16. > :03:17.years, we have had a 300% increase years, we have had a 300% increase

:03:17. > :03:19.in the people using the service. in the people using the service.

:03:19. > :03:19.in the people using the service. have handed out the tickets today,

:03:19. > :03:20.have handed out the tickets today, have handed out the tickets today,

:03:20. > :03:21.have handed out the tickets today, we can offer you information if you

:03:21. > :03:22.we can offer you information if you we can offer you information if you

:03:22. > :03:23.we can offer you information if you like. A lot of people in the

:03:23. > :03:24.like. A lot of people in the like. A lot of people in the

:03:24. > :03:25.like. A lot of people in the waiting room have just had one or

:03:25. > :03:26.waiting room have just had one or waiting room have just had one or

:03:26. > :03:27.two incidents of bad luck. Actually two incidents of bad luck. Actually

:03:27. > :03:29.two incidents of bad luck. Actually they are finding that perhaps the

:03:29. > :03:30.they are finding that perhaps the they are finding that perhaps the

:03:30. > :03:32.state isn't there to help them state isn't there to help them

:03:32. > :03:33.state isn't there to help them state isn't there to help them

:03:33. > :03:35.through the few months or couple of through the few months or couple of

:03:35. > :03:35.through the few months or couple of years of struggling to help them

:03:35. > :03:38.years of struggling to help them years of struggling to help them

:03:38. > :03:39.years of struggling to help them get back on their feet. Today I

:03:39. > :03:42.get back on their feet. Today I get back on their feet. Today I

:03:42. > :03:43.will possibly see ten people. Are will possibly see ten people. Are

:03:43. > :03:45.will possibly see ten people. Are you getting pension credit at the

:03:45. > :03:46.moment? moment?

:03:46. > :03:46.moment? moment?

:03:46. > :03:48.There could be all manner of things There could be all manner of things

:03:48. > :03:56.There could be all manner of things they have come in for,

:03:56. > :03:58.they have come in for, relationships, debts, benefits.

:03:58. > :04:00.relationships, debts, benefits. relationships, debts, benefits.

:04:00. > :04:02.relationships, debts, benefits. I like stress and work, I couldn't

:04:02. > :04:04.I like stress and work, I couldn't imagine life without something,

:04:05. > :04:05.imagine life without something, imagine life without something,

:04:05. > :04:14.imagine life without something, some work to do. It just keeps me

:04:14. > :04:15.some work to do. It just keeps me some work to do. It just keeps me

:04:15. > :04:15.some work to do. It just keeps me going. I Mary, just to let you know

:04:16. > :04:17.going. I Mary, just to let you know going. I Mary, just to let you know

:04:17. > :04:19.your client is here, thank you, goodbye.

:04:19. > :04:19.goodbye. goodbye.

:04:19. > :04:20.goodbye. I think what you are receiving at

:04:20. > :04:21.I think what you are receiving at I think what you are receiving at

:04:21. > :04:22.the moment is the disability living the moment is the disability living

:04:22. > :04:23.the moment is the disability living the moment is the disability living

:04:23. > :04:25.allowance, and what you need to be allowance, and what you need to be

:04:25. > :04:26.allowance, and what you need to be receiving on top that have is

:04:26. > :04:28.receiving on top that have is Employment and Support Allowance.

:04:28. > :04:32.Employment and Support Allowance. Employment and Support Allowance.

:04:32. > :04:34.Employment and Support Allowance. I have been a case work -- worker

:04:34. > :04:36.I have been a case work -- worker I have been a case work -- worker

:04:36. > :04:38.I have been a case work -- worker in Coventry CAB for 23 years.

:04:38. > :04:39.in Coventry CAB for 23 years. in Coventry CAB for 23 years.

:04:39. > :04:40.in Coventry CAB for 23 years. take it month by month. Which is

:04:40. > :04:42.take it month by month. Which is take it month by month. Which is

:04:42. > :04:43.take it month by month. Which is ideal for me, because too much goes

:04:43. > :04:46.ideal for me, because too much goes ideal for me, because too much goes

:04:46. > :04:48.ideal for me, because too much goes in here I can't store it. Of course

:04:48. > :04:50.in here I can't store it. Of course in here I can't store it. Of course

:04:50. > :04:53.in here I can't store it. Of course not. Basically I got cancer of the

:04:53. > :04:54.not. Basically I got cancer of the not. Basically I got cancer of the

:04:54. > :04:56.prostate, and that's travelled to prostate, and that's travelled to

:04:56. > :04:57.prostate, and that's travelled to prostate, and that's travelled to

:04:57. > :04:58.my spine and damaged my spine now. my spine and damaged my spine now.

:04:58. > :05:00.my spine and damaged my spine now. my spine and damaged my spine now.

:05:00. > :05:02.I went for chemo, I carried on I went for chemo, I carried on

:05:02. > :05:03.I went for chemo, I carried on working, I worked for six months.

:05:03. > :05:04.working, I worked for six months. working, I worked for six months.

:05:04. > :05:06.working, I worked for six months. Taking the chemo they werey as well.

:05:06. > :05:07.Taking the chemo they werey as well. Taking the chemo they werey as well.

:05:07. > :05:09.But that is mind-blowing. That But that is mind-blowing. That

:05:09. > :05:09.But that is mind-blowing. That really knocked me back. I didn't

:05:09. > :05:14.really knocked me back. I didn't really knocked me back. I didn't

:05:14. > :05:15.really knocked me back. I didn't know what I was doing. By the time

:05:15. > :05:16.know what I was doing. By the time know what I was doing. By the time

:05:16. > :05:16.know what I was doing. By the time it was June I didn't know me or

:05:16. > :05:18.it was June I didn't know me or it was June I didn't know me or

:05:18. > :05:21.it was June I didn't know me or anybody, at the end of the day.

:05:21. > :05:23.anybody, at the end of the day. anybody, at the end of the day.

:05:23. > :05:24.anybody, at the end of the day. Even I came down to being suicidal.

:05:24. > :05:25.Even I came down to being suicidal. Even I came down to being suicidal.

:05:25. > :05:27.Even I came down to being suicidal. So, we're going to say that you do

:05:27. > :05:28.So, we're going to say that you do want to claim income-related

:05:28. > :05:29.want to claim income-related want to claim income-related

:05:29. > :05:30.Employment and Support Allowance as Employment and Support Allowance as

:05:30. > :05:31.Employment and Support Allowance as Employment and Support Allowance as

:05:31. > :05:33.well. It means not working any more, well. It means not working any more,

:05:33. > :05:36.well. It means not working any more, and being such an independent

:05:36. > :05:37.and being such an independent and being such an independent

:05:37. > :05:39.person, that really hurts. I have person, that really hurts. I have

:05:39. > :05:41.person, that really hurts. I have always worked and worked hard all

:05:41. > :05:41.always worked and worked hard all always worked and worked hard all

:05:42. > :05:44.always worked and worked hard all my life. Do you know how much rent

:05:44. > :05:49.my life. Do you know how much rent my life. Do you know how much rent

:05:49. > :05:50.you pay? �119.That weekly? Weekly, yeah.

:05:50. > :05:51.yeah. yeah.

:05:51. > :05:54.yeah. I have got nothing coming in now,

:05:54. > :05:57.I have got nothing coming in now, I have got nothing coming in now,

:05:57. > :05:58.everything is going out, and I'm everything is going out, and I'm

:05:58. > :05:59.everything is going out, and I'm really starting to, if Mary didn't

:05:59. > :06:00.really starting to, if Mary didn't really starting to, if Mary didn't

:06:00. > :06:02.get me through I wouldn't know get me through I wouldn't know

:06:02. > :06:02.get me through I wouldn't know get me through I wouldn't know

:06:03. > :06:05.where to start. I would be probably where to start. I would be probably

:06:05. > :06:06.where to start. I would be probably on the street now So the

:06:06. > :06:07.on the street now So the on the street now So the

:06:07. > :06:08.declaration is saying that the declaration is saying that the

:06:08. > :06:10.declaration is saying that the information you are giving is

:06:10. > :06:11.information you are giving is correct and complete.

:06:11. > :06:14.correct and complete. correct and complete.

:06:14. > :06:15.I'm working with clients who have I'm working with clients who have

:06:15. > :06:15.I'm working with clients who have I'm working with clients who have

:06:15. > :06:17.cancer. Trying to see them from the cancer. Trying to see them from the

:06:17. > :06:20.cancer. Trying to see them from the beginning to the end, and making

:06:20. > :06:20.beginning to the end, and making beginning to the end, and making

:06:20. > :06:24.sure that any benefit entitlement sure that any benefit entitlement

:06:24. > :06:25.sure that any benefit entitlement is being paid. Rob's not getting

:06:25. > :06:26.is being paid. Rob's not getting is being paid. Rob's not getting

:06:26. > :06:27.is being paid. Rob's not getting what he's entitled to at the moment.

:06:27. > :06:29.what he's entitled to at the moment. what he's entitled to at the moment.

:06:29. > :06:30.I think the benefits system doesn't I think the benefits system doesn't

:06:30. > :06:34.I think the benefits system doesn't meet the needs of people with

:06:34. > :06:35.meet the needs of people with meet the needs of people with

:06:35. > :06:36.cancer. We have had cases where cancer. We have had cases where

:06:36. > :06:37.cancer. We have had cases where people haven't been paid the

:06:37. > :06:39.people haven't been paid the people haven't been paid the

:06:39. > :06:41.correct benefit while they are correct benefit while they are

:06:41. > :06:42.correct benefit while they are alive, and then die, and then

:06:42. > :06:43.alive, and then die, and then alive, and then die, and then

:06:43. > :06:45.alive, and then die, and then obviously we carry on so it is paid

:06:45. > :06:46.obviously we carry on so it is paid obviously we carry on so it is paid

:06:46. > :06:47.to their families. It just seems to their families. It just seems

:06:47. > :06:49.to their families. It just seems wrong that the person who was

:06:49. > :06:50.wrong that the person who was wrong that the person who was

:06:50. > :06:57.entitled didn't actually receive it entitled didn't actually receive it

:06:57. > :06:58.entitled didn't actually receive it in their lifetime. One change we

:06:58. > :06:59.in their lifetime. One change we in their lifetime. One change we

:06:59. > :07:01.in their lifetime. One change we are seeing is people in work are

:07:01. > :07:02.are seeing is people in work are really struggling. And actually

:07:03. > :07:03.really struggling. And actually really struggling. And actually

:07:03. > :07:04.people in work, often the jobs people in work, often the jobs

:07:04. > :07:06.people in work, often the jobs around at the moment are short-term

:07:06. > :07:09.around at the moment are short-term around at the moment are short-term

:07:09. > :07:10.jobs, fixed term contracts, agency jobs, fixed term contracts, agency

:07:10. > :07:11.jobs, fixed term contracts, agency jobs, fixed term contracts, agency

:07:11. > :07:14.work. We are getting more and more work. We are getting more and more

:07:14. > :07:16.work. We are getting more and more people come into the bureau,

:07:16. > :07:17.people come into the bureau, people come into the bureau,

:07:17. > :07:18.requiring food vouchers, because of requiring food vouchers, because of

:07:18. > :07:19.requiring food vouchers, because of requiring food vouchers, because of

:07:19. > :07:20.the high cost of energy bills and the high cost of energy bills and

:07:20. > :07:24.the high cost of energy bills and the high cost of energy bills and

:07:24. > :07:25.so forth and so on. They are not so forth and so on. They are not

:07:25. > :07:25.so forth and so on. They are not so forth and so on. They are not

:07:25. > :07:26.being able to have money left at being able to have money left at

:07:26. > :07:28.being able to have money left at being able to have money left at

:07:28. > :07:29.being able to have money left at the end of the week to get food.

:07:29. > :07:29.the end of the week to get food. the end of the week to get food.

:07:29. > :07:31.the end of the week to get food. found that we had a number of

:07:31. > :07:32.found that we had a number of found that we had a number of

:07:32. > :07:35.clients coming in, week by week, clients coming in, week by week,

:07:35. > :07:36.clients coming in, week by week, clients coming in, week by week,

:07:36. > :07:37.who kind of just needed �20, �10 to who kind of just needed �20, �10 to

:07:37. > :07:38.who kind of just needed �20, �10 to get them through the weekend. It

:07:38. > :07:38.get them through the weekend. It get them through the weekend. It

:07:39. > :07:39.get them through the weekend. It might be there is a delay in

:07:40. > :07:41.might be there is a delay in might be there is a delay in

:07:41. > :07:42.decisions on their benefits or they decisions on their benefits or they

:07:42. > :07:43.decisions on their benefits or they needed some food or something for

:07:44. > :07:45.needed some food or something for their electricity metre, or

:07:45. > :07:46.their electricity metre, or their electricity metre, or

:07:46. > :07:47.something like that. The staff at something like that. The staff at

:07:47. > :07:49.something like that. The staff at something like that. The staff at

:07:49. > :07:51.the bureau a couple of years ago the bureau a couple of years ago

:07:51. > :07:52.the bureau a couple of years ago created a small hardship fund, they

:07:52. > :07:54.created a small hardship fund, they created a small hardship fund, they

:07:54. > :07:55.raise money for it through raise money for it through

:07:55. > :07:56.raise money for it through sponsored walks and raffles to meet

:07:56. > :07:58.sponsored walks and raffles to meet sponsored walks and raffles to meet

:07:58. > :08:00.that immediate need and gap. that immediate need and gap.

:08:00. > :08:00.that immediate need and gap. that immediate need and gap.

:08:00. > :08:02.I hope people don't think that is I hope people don't think that is

:08:02. > :08:04.I hope people don't think that is Big Society, I don't think that's

:08:04. > :08:05.Big Society, I don't think that's Big Society, I don't think that's

:08:05. > :08:07.what Big Society should be about, what Big Society should be about,

:08:07. > :08:07.what Big Society should be about, what Big Society should be about,

:08:07. > :08:08.that is what the state should be that is what the state should be

:08:08. > :08:09.that is what the state should be that is what the state should be

:08:09. > :08:17.about. But people do just do it about. But people do just do it

:08:17. > :08:18.because that's what's needed. because that's what's needed.

:08:19. > :08:19.because that's what's needed. because that's what's needed.

:08:19. > :08:20.We are always trying to expand the We are always trying to expand the

:08:20. > :08:21.We are always trying to expand the outreach to make sure we are

:08:21. > :08:22.outreach to make sure we are outreach to make sure we are

:08:22. > :08:23.getting to people who really need getting to people who really need

:08:24. > :08:26.getting to people who really need us. Not everybody having to queue

:08:26. > :08:26.us. Not everybody having to queue us. Not everybody having to queue

:08:26. > :08:28.us. Not everybody having to queue to get in every morning. And people

:08:28. > :08:28.to get in every morning. And people to get in every morning. And people

:08:28. > :08:30.to get in every morning. And people with cancer, a lot of them are

:08:30. > :08:31.with cancer, a lot of them are with cancer, a lot of them are

:08:31. > :08:32.receiving treatment, so we see them receiving treatment, so we see them

:08:32. > :08:34.receiving treatment, so we see them at the hospital. In their homes,

:08:34. > :08:36.at the hospital. In their homes, at the hospital. In their homes,

:08:36. > :08:38.whatever makes it easier for them, whatever makes it easier for them,

:08:38. > :08:39.whatever makes it easier for them, whatever makes it easier for them,

:08:39. > :08:39.really. How are you? A bit poorly. really. How are you? A bit poorly.

:08:39. > :08:42.really. How are you? A bit poorly. So what's been happening since I

:08:42. > :08:44.So what's been happening since I So what's been happening since I

:08:44. > :08:46.So what's been happening since I last saw you? I got talking to the

:08:46. > :08:47.last saw you? I got talking to the last saw you? I got talking to the

:08:47. > :08:49.hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met

:08:49. > :08:50.hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met hospital. Julie-Anne, when I met

:08:50. > :08:53.her, she had been trying to claim her, she had been trying to claim

:08:53. > :08:54.Disability Living Allowance. She Disability Living Allowance. She

:08:54. > :08:57.Disability Living Allowance. She had tried unsuccessfully to claim

:08:57. > :08:58.had tried unsuccessfully to claim had tried unsuccessfully to claim

:08:58. > :08:59.had tried unsuccessfully to claim for benefit herself. I went out and

:08:59. > :09:00.for benefit herself. I went out and completed the applications and

:09:00. > :09:01.completed the applications and completed the applications and

:09:01. > :09:03.completed the applications and luckily she did manage to get the

:09:03. > :09:03.luckily she did manage to get the luckily she did manage to get the

:09:03. > :09:08.luckily she did manage to get the benefit. But it was a real struggle

:09:08. > :09:10.for her. for her.

:09:10. > :09:11.for her. I can't get upstairs to the

:09:11. > :09:11.bathroom. bathroom.

:09:12. > :09:12.bathroom. bathroom.

:09:12. > :09:13.I was asking people for their help I was asking people for their help

:09:13. > :09:14.I was asking people for their help I was asking people for their help

:09:14. > :09:15.to fill in forms, they didn't have to fill in forms, they didn't have

:09:15. > :09:15.to fill in forms, they didn't have to fill in forms, they didn't have

:09:15. > :09:16.to fill in forms, they didn't have the time of day for me at all. I

:09:16. > :09:17.the time of day for me at all. I the time of day for me at all. I

:09:17. > :09:19.the time of day for me at all. I told them I had cancer and they

:09:19. > :09:20.told them I had cancer and they told them I had cancer and they

:09:20. > :09:21.told them I had cancer and they said it is not their problem that I

:09:21. > :09:23.said it is not their problem that I said it is not their problem that I

:09:23. > :09:25.said it is not their problem that I have cancer. That I had to do the

:09:25. > :09:27.have cancer. That I had to do the have cancer. That I had to do the

:09:27. > :09:29.forms myself. They didn't show no forms myself. They didn't show no

:09:29. > :09:29.help for anything. help for anything.

:09:30. > :09:31.help for anything. help for anything.

:09:31. > :09:32.I felt like I was having a nervous I felt like I was having a nervous

:09:32. > :09:33.I felt like I was having a nervous I felt like I was having a nervous

:09:33. > :09:35.breakdown. I had to go to the GP breakdown. I had to go to the GP

:09:35. > :09:36.breakdown. I had to go to the GP breakdown. I had to go to the GP

:09:36. > :09:37.and they had to put me on anti- and they had to put me on anti-

:09:37. > :09:42.and they had to put me on anti- depressants to help me, I was

:09:42. > :09:43.depressants to help me, I was depressants to help me, I was

:09:43. > :09:44.breaking down in tears. Is there breaking down in tears. Is there

:09:44. > :09:47.breaking down in tears. Is there anything else you need other than

:09:47. > :09:48.clothing? Support. clothing? Support.

:09:48. > :09:49.clothing? Support. clothing? Support.

:09:49. > :09:50.I'm on chemo, they say I have only I'm on chemo, they say I have only

:09:50. > :09:51.I'm on chemo, they say I have only I'm on chemo, they say I have only

:09:51. > :09:52.three months to a year to live. three months to a year to live.

:09:52. > :09:53.three months to a year to live. three months to a year to live.

:09:53. > :09:54.Which really hurt me, in a way, Which really hurt me, in a way,

:09:54. > :09:55.Which really hurt me, in a way, because I would have thought they

:09:55. > :09:55.because I would have thought they because I would have thought they

:09:56. > :10:00.because I would have thought they would have tried to help me even

:10:00. > :10:07.more. more.

:10:07. > :10:09.more. more.

:10:09. > :10:11.But, it is really hard. I wanted to But, it is really hard. I wanted to

:10:11. > :10:12.But, it is really hard. I wanted to But, it is really hard. I wanted to

:10:12. > :10:13.get my child benefit and my Child get my child benefit and my Child

:10:13. > :10:14.get my child benefit and my Child Tax Credit over into my partner's

:10:15. > :10:19.Tax Credit over into my partner's Tax Credit over into my partner's

:10:19. > :10:19.Tax Credit over into my partner's name, so when I do pass away it

:10:20. > :10:20.name, so when I do pass away it name, so when I do pass away it

:10:20. > :10:21.name, so when I do pass away it will, he will have the money there

:10:21. > :10:22.will, he will have the money there will, he will have the money there

:10:23. > :10:23.for the children to give them for the children to give them

:10:23. > :10:25.for the children to give them support and everything. Do you have

:10:25. > :10:25.support and everything. Do you have support and everything. Do you have

:10:26. > :10:27.support and everything. Do you have any carers or anybody coming in, or

:10:27. > :10:28.any carers or anybody coming in, or any carers or anybody coming in, or

:10:28. > :10:29.any carers or anybody coming in, or are you just there? No David does

:10:29. > :10:31.are you just there? No David does are you just there? No David does

:10:31. > :10:32.are you just there? No David does it all. He comes and helps me.

:10:32. > :10:32.it all. He comes and helps me. it all. He comes and helps me.

:10:33. > :10:34.you happier with that? I prefer you happier with that? I prefer

:10:34. > :10:36.you happier with that? I prefer you happier with that? I prefer

:10:36. > :10:37.people that I know than I don't people that I know than I don't

:10:37. > :10:38.people that I know than I don't people that I know than I don't

:10:38. > :10:39.know. OK.I still can't cope with know. OK.I still can't cope with

:10:39. > :10:40.know. OK.I still can't cope with know. OK.I still can't cope with

:10:40. > :10:41.it now. I'm finding it hard to it now. I'm finding it hard to

:10:41. > :10:43.it now. I'm finding it hard to comes to terms with what is

:10:43. > :10:47.comes to terms with what is comes to terms with what is

:10:47. > :10:49.happening to me. I'm really, really scared.

:10:49. > :10:50.scared. scared.

:10:50. > :10:52.scared. scared.

:10:52. > :10:53.The wet and dry paper is on my desk, The wet and dry paper is on my desk,

:10:54. > :10:54.The wet and dry paper is on my desk, The wet and dry paper is on my desk,

:10:54. > :10:58.OK! If you haven't got goggles they OK! If you haven't got goggles they

:10:58. > :10:59.OK! If you haven't got goggles they are over here as well.

:10:59. > :11:00.are over here as well. are over here as well.

:11:00. > :11:01.are over here as well. In looking at ways in which we can

:11:01. > :11:02.In looking at ways in which we can In looking at ways in which we can

:11:03. > :11:04.get to people earlier and the get to people earlier and the

:11:04. > :11:04.get to people earlier and the service reach further out into the

:11:04. > :11:05.service reach further out into the service reach further out into the

:11:05. > :11:06.communities we have developed the communities we have developed the

:11:06. > :11:07.communities we have developed the partnership with a number of

:11:07. > :11:08.partnership with a number of schools in Coventry.

:11:08. > :11:09.schools in Coventry. schools in Coventry.

:11:09. > :11:10.schools in Coventry. We have worked with staff in the

:11:11. > :11:11.We have worked with staff in the We have worked with staff in the

:11:11. > :11:12.schools to train them to support schools to train them to support

:11:12. > :11:13.schools to train them to support clients and parents of the children

:11:13. > :11:15.clients and parents of the children clients and parents of the children

:11:15. > :11:16.clients and parents of the children that go to that school. And then

:11:16. > :11:16.that go to that school. And then that go to that school. And then

:11:17. > :11:18.they can refer those clients into they can refer those clients into

:11:18. > :11:20.they can refer those clients into they can refer those clients into

:11:20. > :11:21.the bureau for advice if they need the bureau for advice if they need

:11:21. > :11:23.the bureau for advice if they need the bureau for advice if they need

:11:23. > :11:23.it. Now we have 35 or so schools it. Now we have 35 or so schools

:11:24. > :11:32.it. Now we have 35 or so schools it. Now we have 35 or so schools

:11:32. > :11:33.now working with us on the project. now working with us on the project.

:11:33. > :11:33.now working with us on the project. now working with us on the project.

:11:34. > :11:34.We have dealt with about 51 parents We have dealt with about 51 parents

:11:34. > :11:35.We have dealt with about 51 parents We have dealt with about 51 parents

:11:35. > :11:36.in all. We have dealt with five or in all. We have dealt with five or

:11:36. > :11:37.in all. We have dealt with five or in all. We have dealt with five or

:11:37. > :11:38.six members of staff, we have dealt six members of staff, we have dealt

:11:38. > :11:38.six members of staff, we have dealt with pupils. It could be something

:11:39. > :11:40.with pupils. It could be something with pupils. It could be something

:11:40. > :11:42.with pupils. It could be something as minor as they need a bus pass,

:11:42. > :11:43.as minor as they need a bus pass, as minor as they need a bus pass,

:11:43. > :11:44.as minor as they need a bus pass, and can I apply for it, helping

:11:44. > :11:47.and can I apply for it, helping and can I apply for it, helping

:11:47. > :11:47.them to fill out the application, them to fill out the application,

:11:47. > :11:50.them to fill out the application, to getting evictions stopped. All

:11:50. > :11:52.to getting evictions stopped. All to getting evictions stopped. All

:11:52. > :11:52.confidential. I started off, it was confidential. I started off, it was

:11:53. > :11:53.confidential. I started off, it was confidential. I started off, it was

:11:53. > :11:55.around January last year, and I was around January last year, and I was

:11:55. > :11:56.around January last year, and I was very depressed. I had got a

:11:56. > :11:56.very depressed. I had got a very depressed. I had got a

:11:56. > :11:58.very depressed. I had got a daughter who was at school, who was

:11:58. > :11:59.daughter who was at school, who was daughter who was at school, who was

:11:59. > :12:00.daughter who was at school, who was missing a lot of school through my

:12:00. > :12:01.missing a lot of school through my missing a lot of school through my

:12:01. > :12:04.fault, because you know I wasn't fault, because you know I wasn't

:12:04. > :12:05.fault, because you know I wasn't motivated enough in the mornings to

:12:05. > :12:07.motivated enough in the mornings to motivated enough in the mornings to

:12:07. > :12:10.motivated enough in the mornings to get her up and ready. I had been

:12:10. > :12:10.get her up and ready. I had been get her up and ready. I had been

:12:10. > :12:11.get her up and ready. I had been gambling, I got myself into so much

:12:12. > :12:13.gambling, I got myself into so much gambling, I got myself into so much

:12:14. > :12:15.debt I was being threatened with debt I was being threatened with

:12:15. > :12:17.eviction. Constantly worrying about eviction. Constantly worrying about

:12:17. > :12:18.eviction. Constantly worrying about eviction. Constantly worrying about

:12:18. > :12:19.all the bills, and how I'm going to all the bills, and how I'm going to

:12:19. > :12:20.all the bills, and how I'm going to sort this eviction out, and where

:12:20. > :12:21.sort this eviction out, and where sort this eviction out, and where

:12:21. > :12:23.sort this eviction out, and where we were going to live, what we were

:12:23. > :12:24.we were going to live, what we were we were going to live, what we were

:12:24. > :12:26.we were going to live, what we were going to eat. It got to the point

:12:26. > :12:27.going to eat. It got to the point going to eat. It got to the point

:12:27. > :12:28.going to eat. It got to the point where if I ever had any money I

:12:28. > :12:30.where if I ever had any money I where if I ever had any money I

:12:30. > :12:35.where if I ever had any money I knew if I left the house that I

:12:35. > :12:36.knew if I left the house that I knew if I left the house that I

:12:36. > :12:38.would go and gamble. I can't would go and gamble. I can't

:12:38. > :12:40.would go and gamble. I can't explain what makes do you it,

:12:40. > :12:42.explain what makes do you it, explain what makes do you it,

:12:42. > :12:43.explain what makes do you it, because there is no reason. It is

:12:43. > :12:46.because there is no reason. It is because there is no reason. It is

:12:46. > :12:47.just it shut the world off. just it shut the world off.

:12:47. > :12:48.just it shut the world off. just it shut the world off.

:12:48. > :12:50.The school first got in touch with The school first got in touch with

:12:50. > :12:51.The school first got in touch with me over my daughter's absences.

:12:51. > :12:52.me over my daughter's absences. me over my daughter's absences.

:12:52. > :12:52.They quickly realised there was They quickly realised there was

:12:53. > :12:55.They quickly realised there was something wrong at home. They

:12:55. > :12:55.something wrong at home. They something wrong at home. They

:12:55. > :12:57.something wrong at home. They brought me in and got a Citizens

:12:57. > :12:57.brought me in and got a Citizens brought me in and got a Citizens

:12:57. > :12:58.Advice appointment for me. That Advice appointment for me. That

:12:58. > :13:01.Advice appointment for me. That Advice appointment for me. That

:13:01. > :13:02.then helped me to start to get my then helped me to start to get my

:13:02. > :13:03.life sorted. Everything was life sorted. Everything was

:13:03. > :13:04.life sorted. Everything was confidential, I felt I could open

:13:04. > :13:05.confidential, I felt I could open confidential, I felt I could open

:13:05. > :13:07.up. I actually told them everything up. I actually told them everything

:13:07. > :13:08.up. I actually told them everything up. I actually told them everything

:13:08. > :13:09.that had been going on at home. that had been going on at home.

:13:09. > :13:11.that had been going on at home. They helped me with the

:13:11. > :13:11.They helped me with the appointments that they advised,

:13:11. > :13:13.appointments that they advised, appointments that they advised,

:13:13. > :13:15.they helped me with food. They they helped me with food. They

:13:15. > :13:15.they helped me with food. They they helped me with food. They

:13:15. > :13:17.managed to get me some help towards managed to get me some help towards

:13:17. > :13:18.managed to get me some help towards bedding and beds. Things that I

:13:18. > :13:21.bedding and beds. Things that I bedding and beds. Things that I

:13:21. > :13:22.bedding and beds. Things that I hadn't got. But also they helped me

:13:22. > :13:23.hadn't got. But also they helped me hadn't got. But also they helped me

:13:23. > :13:24.hadn't got. But also they helped me sort my problems out. They got me

:13:24. > :13:27.sort my problems out. They got me sort my problems out. They got me

:13:27. > :13:28.into the counselling, they took me into the counselling, they took me

:13:28. > :13:30.into the counselling, they took me to the gamblers anonymous meetings.

:13:30. > :13:31.to the gamblers anonymous meetings. to the gamblers anonymous meetings.

:13:31. > :13:32.to the gamblers anonymous meetings. It was just an easy connection for

:13:32. > :13:34.It was just an easy connection for It was just an easy connection for

:13:34. > :13:35.me. And knowing some of the me. And knowing some of the

:13:35. > :13:36.me. And knowing some of the teachers, and some of the staff

:13:36. > :13:37.teachers, and some of the staff teachers, and some of the staff

:13:37. > :13:39.teachers, and some of the staff from the school, and you know to

:13:39. > :13:43.from the school, and you know to from the school, and you know to

:13:43. > :13:44.from the school, and you know to have them to help me of great.

:13:44. > :13:44.have them to help me of great. have them to help me of great.

:13:44. > :13:47.have them to help me of great. Come up with three new things you

:13:47. > :13:48.didn't. didn't.

:13:48. > :13:50.didn't. Since we have been delivering this

:13:50. > :13:51.Since we have been delivering this Since we have been delivering this

:13:51. > :13:54.programme of close working with programme of close working with

:13:54. > :13:55.programme of close working with families, and that includes our

:13:55. > :13:57.families, and that includes our partnership with Citizens Advice

:13:57. > :13:58.partnership with Citizens Advice partnership with Citizens Advice

:13:59. > :14:01.Bureau, our basic measures of Bureau, our basic measures of

:14:01. > :14:01.Bureau, our basic measures of Bureau, our basic measures of

:14:01. > :14:04.attainment, if you like five A*s to attainment, if you like five A*s to

:14:04. > :14:04.attainment, if you like five A*s to C including English and maths have

:14:04. > :14:06.C including English and maths have doubled. Perhaps the most

:14:06. > :14:07.doubled. Perhaps the most doubled. Perhaps the most

:14:07. > :14:09.significant thing is the impact it significant thing is the impact it

:14:09. > :14:10.significant thing is the impact it has had on attendance and

:14:10. > :14:12.has had on attendance and persistent absence. Our attendance

:14:12. > :14:19.persistent absence. Our attendance persistent absence. Our attendance

:14:19. > :14:20.has risen from 89% to 96%. has risen from 89% to 96%.

:14:20. > :14:21.has risen from 89% to 96%. My life has completely changed

:14:21. > :14:23.My life has completely changed My life has completely changed

:14:23. > :14:24.around now, my daughter is doing around now, my daughter is doing

:14:24. > :14:25.around now, my daughter is doing around now, my daughter is doing

:14:25. > :14:26.really well in school. I have just really well in school. I have just

:14:26. > :14:28.really well in school. I have just really well in school. I have just

:14:28. > :14:29.really well in school. I have just got us a new house, start a new job

:14:29. > :14:30.got us a new house, start a new job got us a new house, start a new job

:14:30. > :14:32.got us a new house, start a new job next week. I'm going to go back

:14:32. > :14:34.next week. I'm going to go back next week. I'm going to go back

:14:34. > :14:37.into full-time employment. Which is into full-time employment. Which is

:14:37. > :14:40.into full-time employment. Which is what I was originally doing. They

:14:40. > :14:44.vaifd me,ically. vaifd me,ically.

:14:44. > :14:45.vaifd me,ically. -- they saved me basically, that's

:14:46. > :14:48.-- they saved me basically, that's -- they saved me basically, that's

:14:48. > :14:50.-- they saved me basically, that's the truth. I get all emotional now.

:14:50. > :14:51.the truth. I get all emotional now. the truth. I get all emotional now.

:14:51. > :14:51.A minister from the Department of A minister from the Department of

:14:51. > :14:52.A minister from the Department of Work and Pensions was not available

:14:52. > :14:54.Work and Pensions was not available Work and Pensions was not available

:14:54. > :14:54.tonight, but in a statement the tonight, but in a statement the

:14:54. > :14:55.tonight, but in a statement the department said the Government is

:14:55. > :14:56.department said the Government is department said the Government is

:14:56. > :14:57.department said the Government is one of the largest funders of CAB

:14:57. > :14:58.one of the largest funders of CAB one of the largest funders of CAB

:14:58. > :14:59.one of the largest funders of CAB in recognition of the work it has

:14:59. > :15:01.in recognition of the work it has in recognition of the work it has

:15:01. > :15:02.in recognition of the work it has been doing over many years in this

:15:02. > :15:03.been doing over many years in this been doing over many years in this

:15:03. > :15:06.been doing over many years in this area. We are ajoined now by Mike

:15:06. > :15:07.area. We are ajoined now by Mike area. We are ajoined now by Mike

:15:07. > :15:07.Dixon assistant chief executive of Dixon assistant chief executive of

:15:07. > :15:08.Dixon assistant chief executive of Citizens Advice, with me also is

:15:09. > :15:10.Citizens Advice, with me also is Citizens Advice, with me also is

:15:10. > :15:11.Christian Guy, director of the Christian Guy, director of the

:15:11. > :15:13.Christian Guy, director of the think-tank the centre for social

:15:13. > :15:14.think-tank the centre for social think-tank the centre for social

:15:14. > :15:15.justice, founded by the Work and justice, founded by the Work and

:15:15. > :15:17.Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan

:15:17. > :15:17.Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, and which was instrumental

:15:17. > :15:21.Smith, and which was instrumental Smith, and which was instrumental

:15:21. > :15:22.in drawing up some of the in drawing up some of the

:15:22. > :15:24.in drawing up some of the Government reforms: I wonder what

:15:24. > :15:24.Government reforms: I wonder what Government reforms: I wonder what

:15:24. > :15:26.Government reforms: I wonder what you thought of that anded kinds of

:15:26. > :15:27.you thought of that anded kinds of you thought of that anded kinds of

:15:27. > :15:28.difficulty people are in and the difficulty people are in and the

:15:28. > :15:29.difficulty people are in and the difficulty people are in and the

:15:30. > :15:31.work of the CAB? Their work is work of the CAB? Their work is

:15:31. > :15:31.work of the CAB? Their work is astounding, and on the frontline of

:15:31. > :15:32.astounding, and on the frontline of astounding, and on the frontline of

:15:32. > :15:33.the most difficult issues around the most difficult issues around

:15:33. > :15:34.the most difficult issues around this country. You only have to

:15:34. > :15:34.this country. You only have to this country. You only have to

:15:34. > :15:35.this country. You only have to watch a video like that to see the

:15:35. > :15:36.watch a video like that to see the watch a video like that to see the

:15:36. > :15:37.range of people they engage with range of people they engage with

:15:37. > :15:38.range of people they engage with range of people they engage with

:15:38. > :15:39.and the level of need there is out and the level of need there is out

:15:39. > :15:41.and the level of need there is out there. Nobody but praise for the

:15:41. > :15:43.there. Nobody but praise for the there. Nobody but praise for the

:15:43. > :15:45.there. Nobody but praise for the work of CAB, it is fantastic.

:15:45. > :15:46.work of CAB, it is fantastic. work of CAB, it is fantastic.

:15:46. > :15:47.there going to be unforeseen there going to be unforeseen

:15:47. > :15:48.consequences with this massive consequences with this massive

:15:48. > :15:49.consequences with this massive welfare reform, whatever we think

:15:49. > :15:50.welfare reform, whatever we think welfare reform, whatever we think

:15:50. > :15:51.about it. That is a different about it. That is a different

:15:51. > :15:52.about it. That is a different debate. There will be problems

:15:52. > :15:54.debate. There will be problems because their workload will

:15:54. > :15:56.because their workload will definitely increase, and their

:15:56. > :15:57.definitely increase, and their definitely increase, and their

:15:57. > :15:58.definitely increase, and their funding has gone down. When you tie

:15:58. > :15:58.funding has gone down. When you tie funding has gone down. When you tie

:15:58. > :15:59.funding has gone down. When you tie something this big you have to set

:15:59. > :16:01.something this big you have to set something this big you have to set

:16:01. > :16:02.up a system that works, certainly up a system that works, certainly

:16:02. > :16:03.up a system that works, certainly up a system that works, certainly

:16:03. > :16:04.for the majority. You have to help for the majority. You have to help

:16:04. > :16:05.for the majority. You have to help for the majority. You have to help

:16:05. > :16:06.people who are part of a minority people who are part of a minority

:16:06. > :16:06.people who are part of a minority people who are part of a minority

:16:06. > :16:08.who will need help to transition to who will need help to transition to

:16:08. > :16:09.who will need help to transition to who will need help to transition to

:16:09. > :16:10.a new way of working, whether it is a new way of working, whether it is

:16:10. > :16:11.a new way of working, whether it is being on-line, whether it is

:16:11. > :16:11.being on-line, whether it is being on-line, whether it is

:16:12. > :16:12.monthly payment, or direct payments monthly payment, or direct payments

:16:12. > :16:14.monthly payment, or direct payments of things like housing benefit. You

:16:14. > :16:15.of things like housing benefit. You of things like housing benefit. You

:16:15. > :16:16.of things like housing benefit. You have to work with that group quite

:16:16. > :16:17.have to work with that group quite have to work with that group quite

:16:17. > :16:18.have to work with that group quite careful low and in a tailored way

:16:18. > :16:19.careful low and in a tailored way careful low and in a tailored way

:16:19. > :16:20.careful low and in a tailored way to meet those needs of the group.

:16:20. > :16:21.to meet those needs of the group. to meet those needs of the group.

:16:21. > :16:22.to meet those needs of the group. What are you worried about in the

:16:22. > :16:23.What are you worried about in the What are you worried about in the

:16:23. > :16:25.What are you worried about in the year ahead? The funding issue is a

:16:25. > :16:26.year ahead? The funding issue is a year ahead? The funding issue is a

:16:26. > :16:27.real issue. For us, as Universal real issue. For us, as Universal

:16:27. > :16:28.real issue. For us, as Universal Credit gets implemented, there are

:16:28. > :16:29.Credit gets implemented, there are Credit gets implemented, there are

:16:29. > :16:30.millions of people who are millions of people who are

:16:30. > :16:31.millions of people who are extremely worried about how this

:16:31. > :16:32.extremely worried about how this extremely worried about how this

:16:32. > :16:33.extremely worried about how this will affect them. One of the issues

:16:33. > :16:33.will affect them. One of the issues will affect them. One of the issues

:16:34. > :16:35.you are saying around monthly you are saying around monthly

:16:35. > :16:36.you are saying around monthly budgeting is going to be really

:16:36. > :16:37.budgeting is going to be really budgeting is going to be really

:16:37. > :16:38.difficult for lots of people. If difficult for lots of people. If

:16:38. > :16:39.difficult for lots of people. If you are paid monthly now, that's

:16:39. > :16:40.you are paid monthly now, that's you are paid monthly now, that's

:16:40. > :16:41.you are paid monthly now, that's like you moving to be paid just

:16:41. > :16:41.like you moving to be paid just like you moving to be paid just

:16:41. > :16:42.like you moving to be paid just three times a year, it is that

:16:42. > :16:43.three times a year, it is that three times a year, it is that

:16:43. > :16:44.scale of shift. And we're concerned scale of shift. And we're concerned

:16:44. > :16:46.scale of shift. And we're concerned that the Government just isn't

:16:46. > :16:48.that the Government just isn't that the Government just isn't

:16:48. > :16:49.putting in place enough support for putting in place enough support for

:16:49. > :16:50.putting in place enough support for budgeting and for helping people

:16:50. > :16:51.budgeting and for helping people budgeting and for helping people

:16:51. > :16:52.really get into making Universal really get into making Universal

:16:52. > :16:53.really get into making Universal Credit work. How can you actually

:16:53. > :16:53.Credit work. How can you actually Credit work. How can you actually

:16:53. > :16:55.prepare people for that. What prepare people for that. What

:16:55. > :16:56.prepare people for that. What should the Government be doing, and

:16:56. > :16:57.should the Government be doing, and should the Government be doing, and

:16:57. > :16:58.should the Government be doing, and what you can do then? We deal with

:16:58. > :17:00.what you can do then? We deal with what you can do then? We deal with

:17:00. > :17:00.hundreds of thousands of people hundreds of thousands of people

:17:00. > :17:01.hundreds of thousands of people every year. It is different for

:17:01. > :17:02.every year. It is different for every year. It is different for

:17:02. > :17:04.different people. But it is simple different people. But it is simple

:17:04. > :17:05.different people. But it is simple things like helping people do a

:17:05. > :17:06.things like helping people do a things like helping people do a

:17:06. > :17:06.budget planner. It is helping budget planner. It is helping

:17:06. > :17:08.people understand where their people understand where their

:17:08. > :17:09.people understand where their income and expenses are going in,

:17:09. > :17:10.income and expenses are going in, income and expenses are going in,

:17:10. > :17:11.coming out. Where they can make coming out. Where they can make

:17:11. > :17:12.coming out. Where they can make savings. Doing it in an interesting

:17:12. > :17:14.savings. Doing it in an interesting savings. Doing it in an interesting

:17:14. > :17:15.savings. Doing it in an interesting and fun way. Just to be clear, you

:17:15. > :17:16.and fun way. Just to be clear, you and fun way. Just to be clear, you

:17:16. > :17:17.are not opposing Universal Credit are not opposing Universal Credit

:17:17. > :17:18.are not opposing Universal Credit are not opposing Universal Credit

:17:18. > :17:19.as such, you are just worried about as such, you are just worried about

:17:19. > :17:21.as such, you are just worried about what the consequences will be?

:17:21. > :17:22.what the consequences will be? what the consequences will be?

:17:22. > :17:24.think it is flagship, really think it is flagship, really

:17:24. > :17:25.exciting and really important exciting and really important

:17:25. > :17:27.exciting and really important reform, that has the potential to

:17:27. > :17:28.reform, that has the potential to be transformative, actually. But

:17:28. > :17:28.be transformative, actually. But be transformative, actually. But

:17:28. > :17:30.be transformative, actually. But the issue is, you can do something

:17:30. > :17:31.the issue is, you can do something the issue is, you can do something

:17:31. > :17:31.the issue is, you can do something very, very bold, but if you don't

:17:32. > :17:32.very, very bold, but if you don't very, very bold, but if you don't

:17:32. > :17:34.very, very bold, but if you don't implement it in the right way and

:17:34. > :17:34.implement it in the right way and implement it in the right way and

:17:34. > :17:35.implement it in the right way and get the details right, then you are

:17:35. > :17:36.get the details right, then you are undermining everything you are

:17:36. > :17:37.undermining everything you are undermining everything you are

:17:37. > :17:38.doing. Does that worry you, it doing. Does that worry you, it

:17:38. > :17:39.doing. Does that worry you, it doing. Does that worry you, it

:17:40. > :17:41.could blow the whole thing out of could blow the whole thing out of

:17:41. > :17:41.could blow the whole thing out of could blow the whole thing out of

:17:42. > :17:42.the water. The lady there who says the water. The lady there who says

:17:42. > :17:43.the water. The lady there who says she has cancer, and nobody is

:17:43. > :17:45.she has cancer, and nobody is she has cancer, and nobody is

:17:45. > :17:46.she has cancer, and nobody is helping me do the forms and CAB are

:17:46. > :17:47.helping me do the forms and CAB are helping me do the forms and CAB are

:17:47. > :17:49.helping me do the forms and CAB are helping me do the forms. Does it

:17:49. > :17:54.helping me do the forms. Does it helping me do the forms. Does it

:17:54. > :17:55.helping me do the forms. Does it worry you that it isn't the say the

:17:55. > :17:56.worry you that it isn't the say the worry you that it isn't the say the

:17:57. > :17:57.worry you that it isn't the say the state -- it isn't the state doing

:17:57. > :17:58.state -- it isn't the state doing state -- it isn't the state doing

:17:59. > :17:59.state -- it isn't the state doing it now? It is like you need a

:17:59. > :18:00.it now? It is like you need a it now? It is like you need a

:18:01. > :18:01.it now? It is like you need a degree to work out all the benefits.

:18:01. > :18:03.degree to work out all the benefits. degree to work out all the benefits.

:18:04. > :18:05.degree to work out all the benefits. The system we have now is a low

:18:05. > :18:06.The system we have now is a low The system we have now is a low

:18:06. > :18:08.base, and universal benefit was to base, and universal benefit was to

:18:08. > :18:09.base, and universal benefit was to make it moreism and realistic.

:18:09. > :18:11.make it moreism and realistic. make it moreism and realistic.

:18:11. > :18:12.Monthly payments of things is a Monthly payments of things is a

:18:12. > :18:14.Monthly payments of things is a really important point. By default

:18:14. > :18:16.really important point. By default really important point. By default

:18:16. > :18:17.I agree with the position of I agree with the position of

:18:17. > :18:19.I agree with the position of monthly payments. The majority of

:18:19. > :18:20.monthly payments. The majority of monthly payments. The majority of

:18:20. > :18:22.salaries, 75% of people in work salaries, 75% of people in work

:18:22. > :18:24.salaries, 75% of people in work salaries, 75% of people in work

:18:24. > :18:25.will get paid on a monthly basis. will get paid on a monthly basis.

:18:25. > :18:26.will get paid on a monthly basis. will get paid on a monthly basis.

:18:26. > :18:27.People on welfare and get a job and People on welfare and get a job and

:18:27. > :18:28.People on welfare and get a job and can't manage the monthly payments

:18:28. > :18:29.can't manage the monthly payments can't manage the monthly payments

:18:29. > :18:30.and crash out. The poorest people and crash out. The poorest people

:18:30. > :18:31.and crash out. The poorest people and crash out. The poorest people

:18:31. > :18:32.across the country are some of the across the country are some of the

:18:32. > :18:33.across the country are some of the best people managing money, they

:18:33. > :18:34.best people managing money, they best people managing money, they

:18:34. > :18:36.have to watch every single pound have to watch every single pound

:18:36. > :18:36.have to watch every single pound have to watch every single pound

:18:36. > :18:37.they spend. If we can get it right, they spend. If we can get it right,

:18:37. > :18:38.they spend. If we can get it right, that is the problem. Some people

:18:38. > :18:39.that is the problem. Some people that is the problem. Some people

:18:39. > :18:40.that is the problem. Some people that is the problem. Some people

:18:40. > :18:41.are not going to be able to get it are not going to be able to get it

:18:41. > :18:42.are not going to be able to get it right? Half of people have said

:18:42. > :18:42.right? Half of people have said right? Half of people have said

:18:42. > :18:44.this will make their life more this will make their life more

:18:44. > :18:45.this will make their life more difficult if you give them monthly

:18:45. > :18:46.difficult if you give them monthly difficult if you give them monthly

:18:47. > :18:48.payments. For me, moving towards payments. For me, moving towards

:18:48. > :18:49.payments. For me, moving towards monthly payments is the best single

:18:49. > :18:52.monthly payments is the best single monthly payments is the best single

:18:52. > :18:55.monthly payments is the best single thing that you could do to expand

:18:55. > :18:57.thing that you could do to expand thing that you could do to expand

:18:57. > :18:58.the Wong, a and payday loan the Wong, a and payday loan

:18:58. > :19:00.the Wong, a and payday loan industry than you could possibly do.

:19:00. > :19:01.industry than you could possibly do. Without putting budgeting support

:19:01. > :19:02.Without putting budgeting support Without putting budgeting support

:19:02. > :19:03.Without putting budgeting support behind it, it will cause a huge

:19:03. > :19:04.behind it, it will cause a huge behind it, it will cause a huge

:19:04. > :19:05.problem. We are working with the problem. We are working with the

:19:05. > :19:06.problem. We are working with the problem. We are working with the

:19:06. > :19:07.problem. We are working with the DWP to try to get that right. It is

:19:07. > :19:09.DWP to try to get that right. It is DWP to try to get that right. It is

:19:09. > :19:10.DWP to try to get that right. It is not there yet. We are worried about

:19:10. > :19:10.not there yet. We are worried about not there yet. We are worried about

:19:10. > :19:11.not there yet. We are worried about it. I think the Government needs to

:19:11. > :19:13.it. I think the Government needs to it. I think the Government needs to

:19:13. > :19:15.it. I think the Government needs to speak for theself on this, I'm not

:19:15. > :19:17.speak for theself on this, I'm not speak for theself on this, I'm not

:19:17. > :19:18.a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want

:19:19. > :19:21.a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want a DWP spokesman, they wouldn't want

:19:21. > :19:23.me to either. If more people turned me to either. If more people turned

:19:23. > :19:24.me to either. If more people turned to the payday loans you can

:19:24. > :19:24.to the payday loans you can to the payday loans you can

:19:24. > :19:26.to the payday loans you can understand that? For a long time we

:19:26. > :19:27.understand that? For a long time we understand that? For a long time we

:19:27. > :19:28.have said you get your monthly have said you get your monthly

:19:28. > :19:29.have said you get your monthly have said you get your monthly

:19:29. > :19:30.payments are not month low they are payments are not month low they are

:19:30. > :19:31.payments are not month low they are payments are not month low they are

:19:31. > :19:33.perhaps every week or two weeks. I perhaps every week or two weeks. I

:19:33. > :19:35.perhaps every week or two weeks. I remember when we transitioned from

:19:35. > :19:36.remember when we transitioned from remember when we transitioned from

:19:36. > :19:37.one week to two-week payments, one week to two-week payments,

:19:37. > :19:38.one week to two-week payments, there was worry there. The

:19:38. > :19:39.there was worry there. The transitional support was helpful.

:19:39. > :19:40.transitional support was helpful. transitional support was helpful.

:19:40. > :19:42.transitional support was helpful. The Government has to get it right.

:19:42. > :19:43.The Government has to get it right. The Government has to get it right.

:19:43. > :19:44.The position should be let's make The position should be let's make

:19:44. > :19:45.The position should be let's make the welfare system more realistic,

:19:45. > :19:45.the welfare system more realistic, the welfare system more realistic,

:19:46. > :19:46.the welfare system more realistic, and a change of culture. If you

:19:46. > :19:47.and a change of culture. If you and a change of culture. If you

:19:47. > :19:48.and a change of culture. If you look at the cost of living, the

:19:48. > :19:49.look at the cost of living, the look at the cost of living, the

:19:49. > :19:50.look at the cost of living, the energy debate, a lot of people are

:19:50. > :19:50.energy debate, a lot of people are energy debate, a lot of people are

:19:50. > :19:51.energy debate, a lot of people are on metres or cards at the poorer

:19:51. > :19:52.on metres or cards at the poorer on metres or cards at the poorer

:19:52. > :19:54.end of society, because they don't end of society, because they don't

:19:54. > :19:55.end of society, because they don't have the guarantee of monthly

:19:55. > :19:57.have the guarantee of monthly have the guarantee of monthly

:19:57. > :19:58.income, and therefore they don't income, and therefore they don't

:19:58. > :19:59.income, and therefore they don't qualify for the cheaper rates and

:19:59. > :20:00.qualify for the cheaper rates and qualify for the cheaper rates and

:20:00. > :20:02.qualify for the cheaper rates and direct debit tarrifs. If we want to

:20:02. > :20:04.direct debit tarrifs. If we want to direct debit tarrifs. If we want to

:20:04. > :20:05.deal with the cost of poverty, deal with the cost of poverty,

:20:05. > :20:06.deal with the cost of poverty, let's give people every chance to

:20:06. > :20:07.let's give people every chance to let's give people every chance to

:20:07. > :20:09.manage their money on a monthly basis.

:20:09. > :20:09.basis. basis.

:20:09. > :20:12.basis. In a moment, good news in the

:20:12. > :20:13.In a moment, good news in the In a moment, good news in the

:20:13. > :20:19.In a moment, good news in the search for a cure for HIV-AIDS. And

:20:19. > :20:21.search for a cure for HIV-AIDS. And search for a cure for HIV-AIDS. And

:20:21. > :20:25.what connects Evil Knevil, kur kob what connects Evil Knevil, kur kob

:20:25. > :20:27.what connects Evil Knevil, kur kob bane and Sound City studios. --

:20:28. > :20:29.bane and Sound City studios. -- bane and Sound City studios. --

:20:29. > :20:30.curt Cobane and Sound City studios. curt Cobane and Sound City studios.

:20:30. > :20:30.curt Cobane and Sound City studios. curt Cobane and Sound City studios.

:20:30. > :20:31.The scheme that is supposed to get The scheme that is supposed to get

:20:31. > :20:33.The scheme that is supposed to get banks lending to houses and

:20:33. > :20:34.banks lending to houses and businesses clearly isn't working

:20:34. > :20:36.businesses clearly isn't working businesses clearly isn't working

:20:36. > :20:36.the way the Government or the way the Government or

:20:36. > :20:37.the way the Government or businesses want. Millions of public

:20:37. > :20:38.businesses want. Millions of public businesses want. Millions of public

:20:38. > :20:39.businesses want. Millions of public money is going into the banks and

:20:39. > :20:40.money is going into the banks and money is going into the banks and

:20:40. > :20:41.not coming out to small businesses. not coming out to small businesses.

:20:41. > :20:42.not coming out to small businesses. not coming out to small businesses.

:20:42. > :20:44.In a moment we will hear from In a moment we will hear from

:20:44. > :20:45.Vincent Cable, the Business Vincent Cable, the Business

:20:45. > :20:46.Secretary, first our Economics Editor.

:20:46. > :20:47.Editor. Editor.

:20:47. > :20:48.Editor. What is the problem here? One of

:20:48. > :20:49.What is the problem here? One of What is the problem here? One of

:20:49. > :20:50.the oldest saying in economic. If the oldest saying in economic. If

:20:50. > :20:51.the oldest saying in economic. If the oldest saying in economic. If

:20:51. > :20:52.you push money into the economy, by you push money into the economy, by

:20:52. > :20:54.you push money into the economy, by printing it it or creating or

:20:54. > :20:55.printing it it or creating or printing it it or creating or

:20:55. > :20:56.lending it cheaply, you don't lending it cheaply, you don't

:20:56. > :20:57.lending it cheaply, you don't create effective demand, it is like

:20:57. > :20:58.create effective demand, it is like create effective demand, it is like

:20:58. > :21:00.create effective demand, it is like pushing on a piece of string. It

:21:00. > :21:01.pushing on a piece of string. It pushing on a piece of string. It

:21:01. > :21:02.pushing on a piece of string. It bunches up. In this case it is

:21:03. > :21:04.bunches up. In this case it is bunches up. In this case it is

:21:04. > :21:05.bunching up inside the banks. The bunching up inside the banks. The

:21:05. > :21:08.bunching up inside the banks. The Funding for Lending Scheme, like

:21:08. > :21:09.Funding for Lending Scheme, like Funding for Lending Scheme, like

:21:09. > :21:10.all the predecessors, is meant to all the predecessors, is meant to

:21:10. > :21:11.all the predecessors, is meant to get the banks lending to businesses.

:21:12. > :21:13.get the banks lending to businesses. get the banks lending to businesses.

:21:13. > :21:14.get the banks lending to businesses. It is aimed to get �60 billion

:21:14. > :21:16.It is aimed to get �60 billion It is aimed to get �60 billion

:21:16. > :21:17.extra into lending into the economy. extra into lending into the economy.

:21:17. > :21:18.extra into lending into the economy. Let's look at what is achieved,

:21:18. > :21:18.Let's look at what is achieved, Let's look at what is achieved,

:21:19. > :21:20.Let's look at what is achieved, thank you very much say the banks,

:21:20. > :21:21.thank you very much say the banks, thank you very much say the banks,

:21:21. > :21:21.thank you very much say the banks, they have taken �14 million of the

:21:21. > :21:22.they have taken �14 million of the they have taken �14 million of the

:21:22. > :21:24.cheap money from the Bank of cheap money from the Bank of

:21:24. > :21:24.cheap money from the Bank of cheap money from the Bank of

:21:24. > :21:26.England. The net result in the last England. The net result in the last

:21:26. > :21:27.England. The net result in the last England. The net result in the last

:21:27. > :21:29.quarter is they lent less. So they quarter is they lent less. So they

:21:29. > :21:30.quarter is they lent less. So they quarter is they lent less. So they

:21:30. > :21:31.took �14 billion and they took �2.4 took �14 billion and they took �2.4

:21:31. > :21:33.took �14 billion and they took �2.4 billion out of the economy by

:21:33. > :21:36.billion out of the economy by billion out of the economy by

:21:36. > :21:38.lending less. The culprits, three lending less. The culprits, three

:21:38. > :21:40.big banks, Santander, formerly big banks, Santander, formerly

:21:40. > :21:43.big banks, Santander, formerly Abbey National, Lloyd's Group and

:21:43. > :21:45.Abbey National, Lloyd's Group and Abbey National, Lloyd's Group and

:21:45. > :21:48.RBS. They together accounted for RBS. They together accounted for

:21:48. > :21:49.RBS. They together accounted for minus �7.7 billion. They lent �7.7

:21:49. > :21:50.minus �7.7 billion. They lent �7.7 minus �7.7 billion. They lent �7.7

:21:50. > :21:52.billion less between them than they billion less between them than they

:21:52. > :21:53.billion less between them than they had before. This is offset by

:21:53. > :21:55.had before. This is offset by had before. This is offset by

:21:55. > :21:55.Barclays lending �2 billion and Barclays lending �2 billion and

:21:55. > :21:57.Barclays lending �2 billion and Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some

:21:57. > :21:57.Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some

:21:57. > :21:58.Nationwide lending �2 billion. Some banks are doing it. The banks say

:21:58. > :21:59.banks are doing it. The banks say banks are doing it. The banks say

:21:59. > :22:01.banks are doing it. The banks say it was a bad quarter. The demand

:22:01. > :22:04.it was a bad quarter. The demand it was a bad quarter. The demand

:22:04. > :22:04.isn't there. The usual problems of isn't there. The usual problems of

:22:04. > :22:07.businesses not really credit-worthy, businesses not really credit-worthy,

:22:07. > :22:08.businesses are hopping mad. businesses are hopping mad.

:22:08. > :22:09.businesses are hopping mad. businesses are hopping mad.

:22:09. > :22:10.I think the Government has to get I think the Government has to get

:22:10. > :22:12.I think the Government has to get serious now about the issues with

:22:12. > :22:13.serious now about the issues with serious now about the issues with

:22:13. > :22:16.the banks. There is some systematic the banks. There is some systematic

:22:16. > :22:18.the banks. There is some systematic issues going on here. Where fund

:22:18. > :22:19.issues going on here. Where fund issues going on here. Where fund

:22:19. > :22:20.after fund after fund, from Merlin after fund after fund, from Merlin

:22:20. > :22:20.after fund after fund, from Merlin after fund after fund, from Merlin

:22:20. > :22:21.all the way through for Funding for all the way through for Funding for

:22:21. > :22:22.all the way through for Funding for Lending Scheme now, the banks have

:22:22. > :22:24.Lending Scheme now, the banks have Lending Scheme now, the banks have

:22:24. > :22:26.fallen short. What are the banks fallen short. What are the banks

:22:26. > :22:27.fallen short. What are the banks going to do to enable growth,

:22:27. > :22:28.going to do to enable growth, rather than disabling many

:22:28. > :22:30.rather than disabling many businesses from creating new

:22:30. > :22:30.businesses from creating new businesses from creating new

:22:30. > :22:31.employment and economic value. employment and economic value.

:22:31. > :22:33.employment and economic value. employment and economic value.

:22:33. > :22:34.do you want the Government to do to do you want the Government to do to

:22:34. > :22:36.do you want the Government to do to break that log-jam? I think the

:22:36. > :22:37.break that log-jam? I think the break that log-jam? I think the

:22:37. > :22:38.Government at the highest levels Government at the highest levels

:22:38. > :22:39.Government at the highest levels Government at the highest levels

:22:39. > :22:40.has got to get its act together has got to get its act together

:22:40. > :22:40.has got to get its act together has got to get its act together

:22:40. > :22:42.with the banks. Get them in around with the banks. Get them in around

:22:42. > :22:43.with the banks. Get them in around with the banks. Get them in around

:22:43. > :22:44.in a room and make it very, very in a room and make it very, very

:22:44. > :22:45.in a room and make it very, very clear that these schemes won't be

:22:45. > :22:46.clear that these schemes won't be clear that these schemes won't be

:22:46. > :22:46.allowed any more, unless they are allowed any more, unless they are

:22:46. > :22:47.allowed any more, unless they are prepared to deliver what the

:22:47. > :22:48.prepared to deliver what the prepared to deliver what the

:22:49. > :22:50.schemes are there to deliver. schemes are there to deliver.

:22:50. > :22:51.schemes are there to deliver. schemes are there to deliver.

:22:51. > :22:52.The Bank of England, of course, add The Bank of England, of course, add

:22:52. > :22:54.The Bank of England, of course, add ministers the scheme. What can they

:22:54. > :22:57.ministers the scheme. What can they ministers the scheme. What can they

:22:57. > :22:58.or the Government actually do? or the Government actually do?

:22:58. > :23:00.or the Government actually do? add ministers the scheme. What they

:23:00. > :23:01.add ministers the scheme. What they add ministers the scheme. What they

:23:01. > :23:02.or the Government do? They are or the Government do? They are

:23:02. > :23:03.or the Government do? They are or the Government do? They are

:23:03. > :23:05.charging banks to hold on to money, charging banks to hold on to money,

:23:05. > :23:07.charging banks to hold on to money, charging banks to hold on to money,

:23:07. > :23:08.it is repressive and a tough thing it is repressive and a tough thing

:23:08. > :23:09.it is repressive and a tough thing to do. Vincent Cable has also

:23:09. > :23:10.to do. Vincent Cable has also to do. Vincent Cable has also

:23:10. > :23:11.talked today Lib Dem colleagues talked today Lib Dem colleagues

:23:11. > :23:13.talked today Lib Dem colleagues talked today Lib Dem colleagues

:23:13. > :23:14.about the idea of would it be such about the idea of would it be such

:23:14. > :23:16.about the idea of would it be such -- talked to Lib Dem colleagues

:23:16. > :23:17.-- talked to Lib Dem colleagues -- talked to Lib Dem colleagues

:23:17. > :23:18.-- talked to Lib Dem colleagues about the idea of would it be sow

:23:18. > :23:20.about the idea of would it be sow about the idea of would it be sow

:23:20. > :23:21.bad if RBS would be nationalised. bad if RBS would be nationalised.

:23:21. > :23:22.bad if RBS would be nationalised. bad if RBS would be nationalised.

:23:22. > :23:22.It would be a big repressive tough It would be a big repressive tough

:23:23. > :23:23.It would be a big repressive tough It would be a big repressive tough

:23:23. > :23:24.thing to do, but it might get thing to do, but it might get

:23:24. > :23:25.thing to do, but it might get things going. If you don't take

:23:25. > :23:26.things going. If you don't take things going. If you don't take

:23:26. > :23:27.measures on the supply of money measures on the supply of money

:23:28. > :23:28.measures on the supply of money side, you have to create better

:23:28. > :23:29.side, you have to create better side, you have to create better

:23:29. > :23:30.demand. This is the obsession of demand. This is the obsession of

:23:30. > :23:32.demand. This is the obsession of Government, the creation of a

:23:32. > :23:35.Government, the creation of a Government, the creation of a

:23:35. > :23:36.growth policy that actually brings growth policy that actually brings

:23:36. > :23:38.growth policy that actually brings growth and demand and credit-

:23:38. > :23:38.growth and demand and credit- worthiness among businesses.

:23:38. > :23:39.worthiness among businesses. worthiness among businesses.

:23:39. > :23:40.worthiness among businesses. Whether we are pushing a bit of

:23:40. > :23:42.Whether we are pushing a bit of Whether we are pushing a bit of

:23:42. > :23:43.string, I went to Westminster to string, I went to Westminster to

:23:43. > :23:44.string, I went to Westminster to have a word with the Business

:23:44. > :23:45.have a word with the Business have a word with the Business

:23:45. > :23:46.Secretary, Vincent Cable about all Secretary, Vincent Cable about all

:23:46. > :23:47.Secretary, Vincent Cable about all Secretary, Vincent Cable about all

:23:47. > :23:50.of this. And I asked whether or not of this. And I asked whether or not

:23:50. > :23:52.of this. And I asked whether or not of this. And I asked whether or not

:23:52. > :23:53.he was disappointed in the fall in he was disappointed in the fall in

:23:53. > :23:55.lending? I'm extremely disappointed. lending? I'm extremely disappointed.

:23:55. > :23:57.lending? I'm extremely disappointed. We have to understand the context,

:23:57. > :23:58.We have to understand the context, We have to understand the context,

:23:59. > :24:00.banks have been badly damaged, with banks have been badly damaged, with

:24:00. > :24:01.banks have been badly damaged, with terrible balance sheets full of

:24:01. > :24:02.terrible balance sheets full of terrible balance sheets full of

:24:02. > :24:03.rubbish that they accumulated up to rubbish that they accumulated up to

:24:03. > :24:03.rubbish that they accumulated up to rubbish that they accumulated up to

:24:04. > :24:04.the crisis is. They have been told the crisis is. They have been told

:24:05. > :24:05.the crisis is. They have been told the crisis is. They have been told

:24:05. > :24:07.to hold more capital to be safe. We to hold more capital to be safe. We

:24:07. > :24:09.to hold more capital to be safe. We don't want them falling over again.

:24:09. > :24:10.don't want them falling over again. don't want them falling over again.

:24:10. > :24:10.don't want them falling over again. They have to pay massive fines as a

:24:10. > :24:11.They have to pay massive fines as a They have to pay massive fines as a

:24:11. > :24:12.result of previous bad behaviour. result of previous bad behaviour.

:24:12. > :24:13.result of previous bad behaviour. result of previous bad behaviour.

:24:13. > :24:14.All this gets in the way of what All this gets in the way of what

:24:14. > :24:15.All this gets in the way of what should be the central purpose of

:24:15. > :24:16.should be the central purpose of should be the central purpose of

:24:16. > :24:18.banks, which is getting savings and banks, which is getting savings and

:24:18. > :24:19.channelling them into productive channelling them into productive

:24:19. > :24:20.channelling them into productive lending. Indeed, but if you can't

:24:20. > :24:21.lending. Indeed, but if you can't lending. Indeed, but if you can't

:24:21. > :24:22.bribe them by giving them more bribe them by giving them more

:24:22. > :24:23.bribe them by giving them more bribe them by giving them more

:24:23. > :24:24.money in order that they might lend money in order that they might lend

:24:24. > :24:25.money in order that they might lend money in order that they might lend

:24:25. > :24:26.it, can you bully them into doing it, can you bully them into doing

:24:26. > :24:28.it, can you bully them into doing it, can you bully them into doing

:24:28. > :24:29.it? Is there anything you can do to it? Is there anything you can do to

:24:29. > :24:30.it? Is there anything you can do to it? Is there anything you can do to

:24:30. > :24:31.unblock the log jam, so our money, unblock the log jam, so our money,

:24:31. > :24:32.unblock the log jam, so our money, that is going through them, for

:24:32. > :24:33.that is going through them, for that is going through them, for

:24:33. > :24:35.lending, goes to the businesses lending, goes to the businesses

:24:35. > :24:35.lending, goes to the businesses lending, goes to the businesses

:24:35. > :24:36.that want it? We have to do more that want it? We have to do more

:24:36. > :24:38.that want it? We have to do more than we are currently doing. That

:24:38. > :24:40.than we are currently doing. That than we are currently doing. That

:24:40. > :24:43.than we are currently doing. That is for sure. One of the things we

:24:43. > :24:43.is for sure. One of the things we is for sure. One of the things we

:24:43. > :24:45.is for sure. One of the things we try, and my department is doing, is

:24:45. > :24:46.try, and my department is doing, is try, and my department is doing, is

:24:46. > :24:47.first of all asking the British first of all asking the British

:24:47. > :24:49.Bankers' Association to get Bankers' Association to get

:24:49. > :24:51.Bankers' Association to get detailed data out there, in terms

:24:51. > :24:51.detailed data out there, in terms detailed data out there, in terms

:24:52. > :24:53.detailed data out there, in terms it of net lending to business. By

:24:53. > :24:53.it of net lending to business. By it of net lending to business. By

:24:53. > :24:54.postcard or constituency, so we postcard or constituency, so we

:24:54. > :24:55.postcard or constituency, so we know exactly what they are doing,

:24:55. > :24:57.know exactly what they are doing, know exactly what they are doing,

:24:57. > :24:59.know exactly what they are doing, and we can keep a closer eye on

:24:59. > :25:00.and we can keep a closer eye on and we can keep a closer eye on

:25:00. > :25:02.them. So you can monitor better? them. So you can monitor better?

:25:02. > :25:03.them. So you can monitor better? them. So you can monitor better?

:25:03. > :25:03.Yes, and if we don't get that data Yes, and if we don't get that data

:25:04. > :25:04.Yes, and if we don't get that data Yes, and if we don't get that data

:25:04. > :25:05.we will legislate to get it. The we will legislate to get it. The

:25:05. > :25:06.we will legislate to get it. The Chancellor made it clear last week

:25:06. > :25:07.Chancellor made it clear last week Chancellor made it clear last week

:25:07. > :25:09.Chancellor made it clear last week that he expects RBS, a big giant

:25:09. > :25:10.that he expects RBS, a big giant that he expects RBS, a big giant

:25:10. > :25:11.that he expects RBS, a big giant bank, to stop thinking of itself as

:25:11. > :25:12.bank, to stop thinking of itself as bank, to stop thinking of itself as

:25:12. > :25:13.a global bank, and concentrate on a global bank, and concentrate on

:25:13. > :25:14.a global bank, and concentrate on the British economy and supporting

:25:15. > :25:15.the British economy and supporting the British economy and supporting

:25:15. > :25:16.it. That includes lending to it. That includes lending to

:25:16. > :25:17.it. That includes lending to business. It isn't happening yet in

:25:17. > :25:18.business. It isn't happening yet in business. It isn't happening yet in

:25:18. > :25:20.business. It isn't happening yet in the way we want to. The performance

:25:20. > :25:21.the way we want to. The performance the way we want to. The performance

:25:21. > :25:22.of the semi-state-owned banks have of the semi-state-owned banks have

:25:22. > :25:23.been particularly disappointing, been particularly disappointing,

:25:23. > :25:24.been particularly disappointing, that is the direction that they

:25:24. > :25:26.that is the direction that they that is the direction that they

:25:26. > :25:27.have to go. Indeed because Lloyd's, have to go. Indeed because Lloyd's,

:25:27. > :25:29.have to go. Indeed because Lloyd's, for example, to take another

:25:29. > :25:30.for example, to take another for example, to take another

:25:30. > :25:31.example of a semi-state owned bank. example of a semi-state owned bank.

:25:31. > :25:32.example of a semi-state owned bank. They have received �3 billion to

:25:32. > :25:34.They have received �3 billion to They have received �3 billion to

:25:34. > :25:35.They have received �3 billion to the scheme, but the lending fell by

:25:35. > :25:36.the scheme, but the lending fell by the scheme, but the lending fell by

:25:36. > :25:37.�3.1 billion in the last quarter. �3.1 billion in the last quarter.

:25:37. > :25:39.�3.1 billion in the last quarter. �3.1 billion in the last quarter.

:25:39. > :25:41.Why don't you take a Lloyd, or take Why don't you take a Lloyd, or take

:25:41. > :25:42.Why don't you take a Lloyd, or take RBS, that we already own 82%,

:25:42. > :25:43.RBS, that we already own 82%, completely into public ownership

:25:43. > :25:45.completely into public ownership completely into public ownership

:25:45. > :25:46.completely into public ownership and say this is going to be our

:25:46. > :25:50.and say this is going to be our national lending bank for

:25:50. > :25:51.national lending bank for national lending bank for

:25:51. > :25:52.businesses? It is tempting, I would businesses? It is tempting, I would

:25:52. > :25:53.businesses? It is tempting, I would businesses? It is tempting, I would

:25:53. > :25:54.have advocated we go down that root have advocated we go down that root

:25:54. > :25:56.have advocated we go down that root during the original bank collapse.

:25:56. > :25:58.during the original bank collapse. during the original bank collapse.

:25:58. > :25:59.It would have been simple letter It would have been simple letter

:25:59. > :26:00.It would have been simple letter It would have been simple letter

:26:00. > :26:02.and cleaner if they had been full - and cleaner if they had been full -

:26:02. > :26:03.and cleaner if they had been full - and cleaner if they had been full -

:26:03. > :26:05.- simpler and cleaner if they had - simpler and cleaner if they had

:26:05. > :26:06.- simpler and cleaner if they had been fully owned, like New York,

:26:06. > :26:07.been fully owned, like New York, been fully owned, like New York,

:26:07. > :26:08.instead we have this semi- instead we have this semi-

:26:08. > :26:10.instead we have this semi- arrangement that we have now. To

:26:10. > :26:11.arrangement that we have now. To arrangement that we have now. To

:26:11. > :26:12.move that to public ownership would move that to public ownership would

:26:12. > :26:15.move that to public ownership would regard a large acquisition. The

:26:15. > :26:16.regard a large acquisition. The regard a large acquisition. The

:26:16. > :26:18.shares are still worth something. shares are still worth something.

:26:18. > :26:19.shares are still worth something. shares are still worth something.

:26:19. > :26:19.Less than they were, but we are Less than they were, but we are

:26:19. > :26:20.Less than they were, but we are talking about billions of public

:26:20. > :26:22.talking about billions of public talking about billions of public

:26:22. > :26:23.money to be diverted today that. money to be diverted today that.

:26:23. > :26:25.money to be diverted today that. Not easy. The British Bankers'

:26:25. > :26:25.Not easy. The British Bankers' Not easy. The British Bankers'

:26:25. > :26:26.Association, you have mentioned, it Association, you have mentioned, it

:26:26. > :26:27.Association, you have mentioned, it says that many households and

:26:27. > :26:29.says that many households and says that many households and

:26:29. > :26:30.businesses are looking to pay down businesses are looking to pay down

:26:30. > :26:31.businesses are looking to pay down debts, rather than take on more

:26:31. > :26:32.debts, rather than take on more debts, rather than take on more

:26:32. > :26:33.borrowing. That maying a natural borrowing. That maying a natural

:26:33. > :26:34.borrowing. That maying a natural thing to do given the economic

:26:34. > :26:36.thing to do given the economic thing to do given the economic

:26:36. > :26:36.thing to do given the economic climb mai. But it does suggest that

:26:36. > :26:38.climb mai. But it does suggest that climb mai. But it does suggest that

:26:38. > :26:40.the Funding For Lending keem -- the Funding For Lending keem --

:26:40. > :26:41.the Funding For Lending keem -- climate. But it does suggest that

:26:41. > :26:42.climate. But it does suggest that climate. But it does suggest that

:26:42. > :26:43.the Funding for Lending Scheme the Funding for Lending Scheme

:26:43. > :26:45.the Funding for Lending Scheme scheme isn't the right thing,

:26:45. > :26:46.scheme isn't the right thing, scheme isn't the right thing,

:26:46. > :26:48.people would rather not borrow. people would rather not borrow.

:26:48. > :26:50.people would rather not borrow. That is still going on, households

:26:50. > :26:51.That is still going on, households That is still going on, households

:26:51. > :26:53.are different. There are heavy are different. There are heavy

:26:53. > :26:54.borrowers and pensioners with borrowers and pensioners with

:26:54. > :26:55.borrowers and pensioners with savings, it varies. It is certainly

:26:55. > :26:56.savings, it varies. It is certainly savings, it varies. It is certainly

:26:56. > :26:57.savings, it varies. It is certainly true the nature of the crisis we

:26:57. > :26:58.true the nature of the crisis we true the nature of the crisis we

:26:58. > :26:59.true the nature of the crisis we got into, is there was a vast

:27:00. > :27:01.got into, is there was a vast amount of personal indebtedness,

:27:01. > :27:01.amount of personal indebtedness, amount of personal indebtedness,

:27:01. > :27:03.amount of personal indebtedness, people are working it down, it is

:27:03. > :27:03.people are working it down, it is people are working it down, it is

:27:04. > :27:05.true for some companies as well. true for some companies as well.

:27:05. > :27:06.true for some companies as well. true for some companies as well.

:27:06. > :27:07.What is crucial to recovery is that What is crucial to recovery is that

:27:07. > :27:09.What is crucial to recovery is that the private sector companies get on

:27:09. > :27:10.the private sector companies get on the private sector companies get on

:27:10. > :27:11.the private sector companies get on and invest and get the capital to

:27:11. > :27:12.and invest and get the capital to and invest and get the capital to

:27:12. > :27:13.and invest and get the capital to do it. At the moment there is

:27:13. > :27:15.do it. At the moment there is do it. At the moment there is

:27:15. > :27:15.enough demand to do more than enough demand to do more than

:27:15. > :27:17.enough demand to do more than businesses currently are doing, but

:27:17. > :27:17.businesses currently are doing, but businesses currently are doing, but

:27:17. > :27:19.they cannot get access to credit. they cannot get access to credit.

:27:19. > :27:20.they cannot get access to credit. they cannot get access to credit.

:27:20. > :27:22.There is a credit supply problem. There is a credit supply problem.

:27:22. > :27:26.There is a credit supply problem. final thought. You were described,

:27:26. > :27:27.final thought. You were described, self-described in today's Times,

:27:27. > :27:28.self-described in today's Times, self-described in today's Times,

:27:28. > :27:30.apparently, as the shop steward for apparently, as the shop steward for

:27:30. > :27:31.apparently, as the shop steward for the union of ministers, fighting

:27:31. > :27:32.the union of ministers, fighting the union of ministers, fighting

:27:32. > :27:33.the terrible George Osborne cuts. the terrible George Osborne cuts.

:27:33. > :27:34.the terrible George Osborne cuts. Perhaps you could elaborate on your

:27:34. > :27:35.Perhaps you could elaborate on your Perhaps you could elaborate on your

:27:35. > :27:37.Perhaps you could elaborate on your role as shop steward. There was a

:27:37. > :27:38.role as shop steward. There was a role as shop steward. There was a

:27:38. > :27:40.bit of leg-pulling there. I simply bit of leg-pulling there. I simply

:27:40. > :27:41.bit of leg-pulling there. I simply bit of leg-pulling there. I simply

:27:41. > :27:43.make the point that, like a lot of make the point that, like a lot of

:27:43. > :27:44.make the point that, like a lot of other ministers, we have done very,

:27:44. > :27:44.other ministers, we have done very, other ministers, we have done very,

:27:44. > :27:46.other ministers, we have done very, very deep cuts in my department, it

:27:46. > :27:47.very deep cuts in my department, it very deep cuts in my department, it

:27:47. > :27:48.has been painful, but necessary, it has been painful, but necessary, it

:27:48. > :27:49.has been painful, but necessary, it is a more efficient department. We

:27:49. > :27:51.is a more efficient department. We is a more efficient department. We

:27:51. > :27:52.are also doing some very important are also doing some very important

:27:52. > :27:53.things, skills training, innovation, things, skills training, innovation,

:27:53. > :27:54.things, skills training, innovation, things, skills training, innovation,

:27:55. > :27:59.science and we have to invest more science and we have to invest more

:27:59. > :28:00.science and we have to invest more science and we have to invest more

:28:00. > :28:02.in them, not less. You want more in them, not less. You want more

:28:02. > :28:03.in them, not less. You want more money not less? For some activities.

:28:03. > :28:03.money not less? For some activities. money not less? For some activities.

:28:03. > :28:05.money not less? For some activities. We can all be more efficient and

:28:05. > :28:05.We can all be more efficient and We can all be more efficient and

:28:05. > :28:07.We can all be more efficient and reform, I'm up for that agenda. We

:28:07. > :28:08.reform, I'm up for that agenda. We reform, I'm up for that agenda. We

:28:08. > :28:09.reform, I'm up for that agenda. We have to be sensible. Quite a few

:28:09. > :28:10.have to be sensible. Quite a few have to be sensible. Quite a few

:28:10. > :28:10.spending plans, I'm not speaking spending plans, I'm not speaking

:28:10. > :28:12.spending plans, I'm not speaking for other ministers, but clearly we

:28:12. > :28:13.for other ministers, but clearly we for other ministers, but clearly we

:28:13. > :28:15.value the police, we value the value the police, we value the

:28:15. > :28:16.value the police, we value the frontline services of the army. I

:28:16. > :28:17.frontline services of the army. I frontline services of the army. I

:28:17. > :28:17.fully understand why my colleagues fully understand why my colleagues

:28:17. > :28:19.fully understand why my colleagues are saying there are important

:28:19. > :28:20.are saying there are important are saying there are important

:28:21. > :28:21.are saying there are important things we have to protect. In which

:28:21. > :28:22.things we have to protect. In which things we have to protect. In which

:28:22. > :28:23.things we have to protect. In which case the welfare budget may have to

:28:23. > :28:23.case the welfare budget may have to case the welfare budget may have to

:28:23. > :28:24.case the welfare budget may have to be cut more? There are a whole

:28:24. > :28:25.be cut more? There are a whole be cut more? There are a whole

:28:25. > :28:26.variety of option. There is the variety of option. There is the

:28:26. > :28:27.question of balance between question of balance between

:28:27. > :28:29.question of balance between departments. There is a question

:28:29. > :28:30.departments. There is a question departments. There is a question

:28:30. > :28:31.about the balance between taxation about the balance between taxation

:28:31. > :28:34.about the balance between taxation and expenditure cuts. And whether

:28:34. > :28:35.and expenditure cuts. And whether and expenditure cuts. And whether

:28:35. > :28:36.that is correct. There is welfare, that is correct. There is welfare,

:28:36. > :28:38.that is correct. There is welfare, that is correct. There is welfare,

:28:38. > :28:38.how do you define welfare. Do you how do you define welfare. Do you

:28:38. > :28:39.how do you define welfare. Do you include the Universal benefits like

:28:39. > :28:40.include the Universal benefits like include the Universal benefits like

:28:40. > :28:41.Winter Fuel Allowance, which a lot Winter Fuel Allowance, which a lot

:28:41. > :28:44.Winter Fuel Allowance, which a lot of people feel really are very

:28:44. > :28:46.generous. generous.

:28:46. > :28:47.generous. generous.

:28:47. > :28:48.There has been what looks like a There has been what looks like a

:28:48. > :28:49.most extraordinary breakthrough in most extraordinary breakthrough in

:28:49. > :28:50.most extraordinary breakthrough in most extraordinary breakthrough in

:28:50. > :28:51.the hunt for a cure for HIV-AIDS. A the hunt for a cure for HIV-AIDS. A

:28:51. > :28:52.the hunt for a cure for HIV-AIDS. A baby in the United States, which

:28:52. > :28:54.baby in the United States, which baby in the United States, which

:28:54. > :28:56.was HIV-positive, now awe peers to was HIV-positive, now awe peers to

:28:56. > :28:56.was HIV-positive, now awe peers to was HIV-positive, now awe peers to

:28:56. > :28:58.was HIV-positive, now awe peers to be all but clear of the in-- to be

:28:58. > :28:59.be all but clear of the in-- to be be all but clear of the in-- to be

:28:59. > :29:00.be all but clear of the in-- to be appears to be all but clear of the

:29:00. > :29:02.appears to be all but clear of the infection. Scientists are very

:29:02. > :29:03.infection. Scientists are very infection. Scientists are very

:29:03. > :29:03.cautious about the result. There is cautious about the result. There is

:29:03. > :29:04.cautious about the result. There is considerable excitement that one of

:29:04. > :29:06.considerable excitement that one of considerable excitement that one of

:29:06. > :29:07.considerable excitement that one of the great scourges of our time, may,

:29:07. > :29:08.the great scourges of our time, may, the great scourges of our time, may,

:29:08. > :29:16.the great scourges of our time, may, at least in very young children, be

:29:16. > :29:18.at least in very young children, be capable of being cured.

:29:18. > :29:18.capable of being cured. capable of being cured.

:29:18. > :29:19.capable of being cured. These are the leaflets given out to

:29:19. > :29:20.These are the leaflets given out to These are the leaflets given out to

:29:20. > :29:21.These are the leaflets given out to children with HIV in the UK. They

:29:21. > :29:22.children with HIV in the UK. They children with HIV in the UK. They

:29:22. > :29:24.children with HIV in the UK. They need only a small print run. There

:29:24. > :29:25.need only a small print run. There need only a small print run. There

:29:25. > :29:27.are now just some 1,200 children are now just some 1,200 children

:29:27. > :29:28.are now just some 1,200 children living with the virus here. Today's

:29:28. > :29:29.living with the virus here. Today's living with the virus here. Today's

:29:29. > :29:31.announcement in the US has been announcement in the US has been

:29:31. > :29:32.described as startling, a described as startling, a

:29:32. > :29:34.potentially important step towards potentially important step towards

:29:34. > :29:36.potentially important step towards potentially important step towards

:29:36. > :29:37.the elusive goal of a cure. A baby the elusive goal of a cure. A baby

:29:37. > :29:40.the elusive goal of a cure. A baby in this Mississippi hospital, with

:29:40. > :29:43.in this Mississippi hospital, with in this Mississippi hospital, with

:29:43. > :29:46.a HIV-positive mother, was treated a HIV-positive mother, was treated

:29:46. > :29:49.a HIV-positive mother, was treated with antry retroviral drugs --

:29:49. > :29:50.with antry retroviral drugs -- anti-retroviral drugs and was,

:29:50. > :29:53.anti-retroviral drugs and was, anti-retroviral drugs and was,

:29:54. > :29:58.apparently cured. We believe the apparently cured. We believe the

:29:58. > :29:59.apparently cured. We believe the heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs

:29:59. > :30:01.heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs

:30:01. > :30:02.heavy load of anti-retroviral drugs brought this on, and sets stage for

:30:02. > :30:03.brought this on, and sets stage for brought this on, and sets stage for

:30:03. > :30:05.brought this on, and sets stage for going on. The closest we came to a

:30:05. > :30:07.going on. The closest we came to a going on. The closest we came to a

:30:07. > :30:08.going on. The closest we came to a cure was five years ago, when a man

:30:08. > :30:10.cure was five years ago, when a man cure was five years ago, when a man

:30:10. > :30:14.in Germany was given gene therapy in Germany was given gene therapy

:30:14. > :30:16.in Germany was given gene therapy and a bone marrow transplant. This

:30:16. > :30:18.and a bone marrow transplant. This and a bone marrow transplant. This

:30:18. > :30:19.man, the discoverer of the Ebola man, the discoverer of the Ebola

:30:19. > :30:20.man, the discoverer of the Ebola man, the discoverer of the Ebola

:30:20. > :30:22.virus, sees this new case as a virus, sees this new case as a

:30:22. > :30:23.virus, sees this new case as a first. This is really exciting news.

:30:23. > :30:24.first. This is really exciting news. first. This is really exciting news.

:30:24. > :30:26.Basically what it provides is a Basically what it provides is a

:30:26. > :30:27.Basically what it provides is a Basically what it provides is a

:30:27. > :30:28.proof of concept, as we say. That proof of concept, as we say. That

:30:28. > :30:30.proof of concept, as we say. That it is possible to eliminate HIV

:30:30. > :30:31.it is possible to eliminate HIV it is possible to eliminate HIV

:30:31. > :30:32.it is possible to eliminate HIV from the body. This is the first

:30:32. > :30:33.from the body. This is the first from the body. This is the first

:30:34. > :30:37.from the body. This is the first time that it has been done with

:30:37. > :30:39.time that it has been done with drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs,

:30:39. > :30:40.drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs, drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs,

:30:40. > :30:45.drugs, with anti-retroviral drugs, anti-HIV drugs, in a babey. That is

:30:45. > :30:45.anti-HIV drugs, in a babey. That is anti-HIV drugs, in a babey. That is

:30:45. > :30:47.spectacular. -- baby. That is spectacular. -- baby. That is

:30:47. > :30:47.spectacular. -- baby. That is spectacular. -- baby. That is

:30:47. > :30:48.spectacular. We are a long way off spectacular. We are a long way off

:30:48. > :30:49.spectacular. We are a long way off from practical application, but the

:30:49. > :30:51.from practical application, but the from practical application, but the

:30:51. > :30:52.from practical application, but the fact it is possible is big news.

:30:52. > :30:55.fact it is possible is big news. While treatment during pregnancy

:30:55. > :30:56.While treatment during pregnancy While treatment during pregnancy

:30:56. > :30:57.has all but eradicated new-born has all but eradicated new-born

:30:57. > :31:00.has all but eradicated new-born baby infection in the developed

:31:00. > :31:01.baby infection in the developed world. Globally 330,000 children

:31:01. > :31:03.world. Globally 330,000 children world. Globally 330,000 children

:31:03. > :31:06.are still being infected every year. are still being infected every year.

:31:06. > :31:07.are still being infected every year. In Nigeria, for example, of 230,000

:31:08. > :31:10.In Nigeria, for example, of 230,000 HIV-positive women who delivered

:31:10. > :31:16.HIV-positive women who delivered HIV-positive women who delivered

:31:16. > :31:17.babies, 75,000 infected babies were babies, 75,000 infected babies were

:31:17. > :31:23.babies, 75,000 infected babies were born. Scientists here have led the

:31:23. > :31:23.born. Scientists here have led the born. Scientists here have led the

:31:23. > :31:24.world in studies of mother-to-baby world in studies of mother-to-baby

:31:24. > :31:26.world in studies of mother-to-baby transmission, and to stop the

:31:26. > :31:26.transmission, and to stop the transmission, and to stop the

:31:26. > :31:29.transmission, and to stop the mothers passing it on to babies.

:31:29. > :31:29.mothers passing it on to babies. mothers passing it on to babies.

:31:29. > :31:32.you treat the mothers in pregnancy you treat the mothers in pregnancy

:31:32. > :31:34.you treat the mothers in pregnancy and completely suppress the virus

:31:34. > :31:34.and completely suppress the virus and completely suppress the virus

:31:34. > :31:36.on retroviral drugs, the risk of on retroviral drugs, the risk of

:31:36. > :31:37.on retroviral drugs, the risk of the baby being infected becomes

:31:37. > :31:38.the baby being infected becomes the baby being infected becomes

:31:38. > :31:39.the baby being infected becomes very, very low. If the UK at the

:31:39. > :31:41.very, very low. If the UK at the very, very low. If the UK at the

:31:41. > :31:42.moment, if the woman has an moment, if the woman has an

:31:42. > :31:44.moment, if the woman has an undetected viral load at pregnancy,

:31:44. > :31:46.undetected viral load at pregnancy, undetected viral load at pregnancy,

:31:46. > :31:47.undetected viral load at pregnancy, undetected viral load at pregnancy,

:31:47. > :31:48.there is a one in 1,000 risk of her there is a one in 1,000 risk of her

:31:48. > :31:49.there is a one in 1,000 risk of her baby being infect. Compared to one

:31:50. > :31:51.baby being infect. Compared to one baby being infect. Compared to one

:31:51. > :31:53.baby being infect. Compared to one in three risk, if the woman has no

:31:53. > :31:53.in three risk, if the woman has no in three risk, if the woman has no

:31:53. > :31:55.treatment and breast-feeds the baby. treatment and breast-feeds the baby.

:31:55. > :31:56.treatment and breast-feeds the baby. treatment and breast-feeds the baby.

:31:56. > :31:57.This was not an intended cure, the This was not an intended cure, the

:31:57. > :31:59.This was not an intended cure, the mother hadn't seen a doctor during

:31:59. > :32:01.mother hadn't seen a doctor during mother hadn't seen a doctor during

:32:01. > :32:02.her pregnancy. The drugs lowered her pregnancy. The drugs lowered

:32:02. > :32:04.her pregnancy. The drugs lowered the baby's viral level, the

:32:04. > :32:06.the baby's viral level, the the baby's viral level, the

:32:06. > :32:07.surprise is those lofl levels surprise is those lofl levels

:32:07. > :32:08.surprise is those lofl levels appeared to stay undetectably low,

:32:08. > :32:10.appeared to stay undetectably low, appeared to stay undetectably low,

:32:10. > :32:11.even when the baby went several even when the baby went several

:32:11. > :32:11.even when the baby went several months without the drugs. There is

:32:11. > :32:12.months without the drugs. There is months without the drugs. There is

:32:12. > :32:14.months without the drugs. There is more scepticism of talk of a cure.

:32:14. > :32:15.more scepticism of talk of a cure. more scepticism of talk of a cure.

:32:15. > :32:16.more scepticism of talk of a cure. This case could yet prove to be an

:32:16. > :32:19.This case could yet prove to be an extraordinary one-off. There are

:32:19. > :32:20.extraordinary one-off. There are extraordinary one-off. There are

:32:20. > :32:21.unusual people whose bodies seem unusual people whose bodies seem

:32:21. > :32:23.unusual people whose bodies seem able, naturally, to suppress the

:32:23. > :32:25.able, naturally, to suppress the able, naturally, to suppress the

:32:25. > :32:26.able, naturally, to suppress the virus. In adults there is 1% of the

:32:26. > :32:29.virus. In adults there is 1% of the clinic populations are elite

:32:29. > :32:32.clinic populations are elite clinic populations are elite

:32:32. > :32:33.controllers who just manage, quite controllers who just manage, quite

:32:33. > :32:34.spontaneously, without needing spontaneously, without needing

:32:34. > :32:36.spontaneously, without needing anti-retroviral drugs to stay well

:32:36. > :32:38.anti-retroviral drugs to stay well anti-retroviral drugs to stay well

:32:38. > :32:39.and suppress the virus. It is and suppress the virus. It is

:32:39. > :32:41.possible this case described possible this case described

:32:41. > :32:42.possible this case described represents a rare example of this,

:32:43. > :32:45.represents a rare example of this, as mother-to-child transmission, in

:32:45. > :32:47.an infant. an infant.

:32:47. > :32:48.an infant. an infant.

:32:48. > :32:49.The US team has said their mind The US team has said their mind

:32:49. > :32:50.The US team has said their mind The US team has said their mind

:32:50. > :32:51.finding might be down to the fact finding might be down to the fact

:32:51. > :32:52.finding might be down to the fact they treated the baby relatively

:32:52. > :32:56.they treated the baby relatively they treated the baby relatively

:32:56. > :32:57.soon after birth. That is not soon after birth. That is not

:32:57. > :32:58.particularly unusual. She's She's particularly unusual. She's She's

:32:58. > :32:59.particularly unusual. She's She's keeping the virus under control,

:32:59. > :33:00.keeping the virus under control, keeping the virus under control,

:33:00. > :33:01.and we need to understand more and we need to understand more

:33:01. > :33:02.and we need to understand more and we need to understand more

:33:02. > :33:03.about how and why she's managed to about how and why she's managed to

:33:03. > :33:04.about how and why she's managed to do that. People have suggested that

:33:04. > :33:05.do that. People have suggested that do that. People have suggested that

:33:05. > :33:07.do that. People have suggested that it was because she start the drugs

:33:07. > :33:08.it was because she start the drugs it was because she start the drugs

:33:08. > :33:09.very, very soon after birth, that very, very soon after birth, that

:33:09. > :33:10.very, very soon after birth, that this has happened. But that is

:33:10. > :33:11.this has happened. But that is this has happened. But that is

:33:11. > :33:13.actually the normal procedure that actually the normal procedure that

:33:13. > :33:14.actually the normal procedure that actually the normal procedure that

:33:14. > :33:14.we Saul follow, and usually if you we Saul follow, and usually if you

:33:14. > :33:16.we Saul follow, and usually if you we Saul follow, and usually if you

:33:17. > :33:18.stop them the virus comes back very quickly.

:33:18. > :33:18.quickly. quickly.

:33:18. > :33:19.quickly. So, I think it is interesting but

:33:19. > :33:24.So, I think it is interesting but So, I think it is interesting but

:33:24. > :33:26.So, I think it is interesting but there is more work to do. When HIV

:33:26. > :33:27.there is more work to do. When HIV there is more work to do. When HIV

:33:27. > :33:30.there is more work to do. When HIV attack our bodies, it can hide away

:33:30. > :33:31.attack our bodies, it can hide away attack our bodies, it can hide away

:33:31. > :33:32.from our immune systems and drugs. from our immune systems and drugs.

:33:32. > :33:34.Australian researchers have said Australian researchers have said

:33:34. > :33:35.Australian researchers have said Australian researchers have said

:33:35. > :33:36.they use a cancer drug to wake up they use a cancer drug to wake up

:33:36. > :33:37.they use a cancer drug to wake up dormant HIV viruses to make them

:33:37. > :33:38.dormant HIV viruses to make them dormant HIV viruses to make them

:33:38. > :33:39.more vulnerable to drugs. Another more vulnerable to drugs. Another

:33:39. > :33:40.more vulnerable to drugs. Another more vulnerable to drugs. Another

:33:40. > :33:43.small step towards a cure. Where we small step towards a cure. Where we

:33:43. > :33:44.small step towards a cure. Where we small step towards a cure. Where we

:33:44. > :33:44.are is at a series of small are is at a series of small

:33:44. > :33:46.are is at a series of small experimental studies, in very small

:33:46. > :33:49.experimental studies, in very small experimental studies, in very small

:33:49. > :33:50.numbers of patients, looking at numbers of patients, looking at

:33:50. > :33:52.numbers of patients, looking at different ways of weeding the virus

:33:52. > :33:53.different ways of weeding the virus different ways of weeding the virus

:33:53. > :33:54.out of infected cells, and then out of infected cells, and then

:33:54. > :33:56.out of infected cells, and then destroying infected cells. It is

:33:56. > :33:57.destroying infected cells. It is destroying infected cells. It is

:33:57. > :33:58.destroying infected cells. It is far too early to tell yet which

:33:58. > :34:00.far too early to tell yet which far too early to tell yet which

:34:00. > :34:02.types of these strategies will be types of these strategies will be

:34:02. > :34:04.types of these strategies will be successful. It is extremely vibrant

:34:04. > :34:06.successful. It is extremely vibrant successful. It is extremely vibrant

:34:06. > :34:08.and exciting area of research. and exciting area of research.

:34:08. > :34:10.and exciting area of research. and exciting area of research.

:34:10. > :34:10.true cure may still be some way off. true cure may still be some way off.

:34:11. > :34:12.true cure may still be some way off. true cure may still be some way off.

:34:12. > :34:13.To get more on the significance of To get more on the significance of

:34:13. > :34:14.To get more on the significance of To get more on the significance of

:34:14. > :34:16.all of this, I'm joined by Dr all of this, I'm joined by Dr

:34:16. > :34:18.all of this, I'm joined by Dr Michael Brady, and a sexual health

:34:18. > :34:19.Michael Brady, and a sexual health Michael Brady, and a sexual health

:34:19. > :34:20.consultant at Kings, Dr Sarah consultant at Kings, Dr Sarah

:34:20. > :34:21.consultant at Kings, Dr Sarah Fidler, a consultant physician in

:34:21. > :34:22.Fidler, a consultant physician in Fidler, a consultant physician in

:34:22. > :34:23.Fidler, a consultant physician in HIV at Imperial College. How big a

:34:23. > :34:24.HIV at Imperial College. How big a HIV at Imperial College. How big a

:34:24. > :34:25.HIV at Imperial College. How big a moment does this seem to you?

:34:25. > :34:26.moment does this seem to you? moment does this seem to you?

:34:26. > :34:27.moment does this seem to you? think in the field we are really

:34:27. > :34:29.think in the field we are really think in the field we are really

:34:29. > :34:30.excited about the whole idea about excited about the whole idea about

:34:30. > :34:34.excited about the whole idea about moving towards the concept of HIV

:34:34. > :34:35.moving towards the concept of HIV cure. Most scientist and

:34:35. > :34:38.cure. Most scientist and cure. Most scientist and

:34:38. > :34:39.researchers, as you said in the researchers, as you said in the

:34:39. > :34:40.introduction, are quite concerned introduction, are quite concerned

:34:40. > :34:42.introduction, are quite concerned whether this baby has actually

:34:42. > :34:43.whether this baby has actually whether this baby has actually

:34:43. > :34:45.within cured or not, they are within cured or not, they are

:34:45. > :34:45.within cured or not, they are within cured or not, they are

:34:45. > :34:46.calling it a functional cure, it is calling it a functional cure, it is

:34:46. > :34:48.calling it a functional cure, it is not requiring treatment to control

:34:48. > :34:49.not requiring treatment to control not requiring treatment to control

:34:49. > :34:50.not requiring treatment to control the virus. But around about 1% of

:34:50. > :34:51.the virus. But around about 1% of the virus. But around about 1% of

:34:52. > :34:53.the population fall into that the population fall into that

:34:53. > :34:54.the population fall into that category were they don't have any

:34:54. > :34:56.category were they don't have any category were they don't have any

:34:56. > :34:57.obvious signs of immune damage. And obvious signs of immune damage. And

:34:57. > :34:58.obvious signs of immune damage. And we can't detect viruses growing in

:34:58. > :34:59.we can't detect viruses growing in we can't detect viruses growing in

:34:59. > :35:00.we can't detect viruses growing in their bodies all the time. But they

:35:00. > :35:01.their bodies all the time. But they their bodies all the time. But they

:35:01. > :35:02.their bodies all the time. But they are not on medicines. Also, it was

:35:02. > :35:03.are not on medicines. Also, it was are not on medicines. Also, it was

:35:03. > :35:04.are not on medicines. Also, it was an accident in many ways, that this

:35:04. > :35:04.an accident in many ways, that this an accident in many ways, that this

:35:05. > :35:06.an accident in many ways, that this was discovered, that a lady of late

:35:06. > :35:08.was discovered, that a lady of late was discovered, that a lady of late

:35:08. > :35:10.was discovered, that a lady of late in presenting and so on, and 0 on.

:35:10. > :35:10.in presenting and so on, and 0 on. in presenting and so on, and 0 on.

:35:10. > :35:12.in presenting and so on, and 0 on. It seems to be fortuitous, but --

:35:12. > :35:14.It seems to be fortuitous, but -- It seems to be fortuitous, but --

:35:14. > :35:19.It seems to be fortuitous, but -- so on and so on. It seems

:35:19. > :35:20.so on and so on. It seems so on and so on. It seems

:35:20. > :35:21.fortuitous, but it has happened? fortuitous, but it has happened?

:35:21. > :35:23.fortuitous, but it has happened? fortuitous, but it has happened?

:35:23. > :35:24.You could argue there are were a You could argue there are were a

:35:24. > :35:26.You could argue there are were a number of failings in her

:35:26. > :35:27.number of failings in her number of failings in her

:35:27. > :35:29.healthcare, that made for a happy healthcare, that made for a happy

:35:29. > :35:31.healthcare, that made for a happy ending. She was late in pregnancy

:35:31. > :35:34.ending. She was late in pregnancy ending. She was late in pregnancy

:35:34. > :35:37.so no access to treatment during so no access to treatment during

:35:37. > :35:38.so no access to treatment during her pregnancy even though anti-

:35:38. > :35:39.her pregnancy even though anti- retrovirals were prescribed, she

:35:39. > :35:41.retrovirals were prescribed, she retrovirals were prescribed, she

:35:41. > :35:42.retrovirals were prescribed, she was lost on follow up and came when

:35:42. > :35:43.was lost on follow up and came when subsequent findings were found.

:35:43. > :35:44.subsequent findings were found. subsequent findings were found.

:35:45. > :35:45.subsequent findings were found. Whap now, there is the research and

:35:45. > :35:46.Whap now, there is the research and Whap now, there is the research and

:35:46. > :35:47.Whap now, there is the research and also pos -- what happens now, there

:35:47. > :35:48.also pos -- what happens now, there also pos -- what happens now, there

:35:48. > :35:49.was the research, and will it was the research, and will it

:35:49. > :35:51.was the research, and will it possibly change the way young

:35:51. > :35:51.possibly change the way young possibly change the way young

:35:51. > :35:52.babies are treated? It won't change babies are treated? It won't change

:35:52. > :35:53.babies are treated? It won't change babies are treated? It won't change

:35:53. > :35:54.anything we are doing at the moment anything we are doing at the moment

:35:54. > :35:55.anything we are doing at the moment anything we are doing at the moment

:35:55. > :35:58.anything we are doing at the moment in the UK. We are very good here at

:35:58. > :35:59.in the UK. We are very good here at in the UK. We are very good here at

:35:59. > :36:00.doing HIV testing in antenatal doing HIV testing in antenatal

:36:00. > :36:01.doing HIV testing in antenatal clinics, 97% of pregnant women get

:36:01. > :36:03.clinics, 97% of pregnant women get clinics, 97% of pregnant women get

:36:03. > :36:04.tested for HIV. It is relatively tested for HIV. It is relatively

:36:04. > :36:04.tested for HIV. It is relatively tested for HIV. It is relatively

:36:04. > :36:05.uncommon, it is rare for babies to uncommon, it is rare for babies to

:36:05. > :36:07.uncommon, it is rare for babies to uncommon, it is rare for babies to

:36:07. > :36:08.uncommon, it is rare for babies to be born with HIV in the UK. 99% of

:36:08. > :36:09.be born with HIV in the UK. 99% of be born with HIV in the UK. 99% of

:36:09. > :36:13.babies born to HIV-positive mothers babies born to HIV-positive mothers

:36:13. > :36:14.will be HIV negative. will be HIV negative.

:36:14. > :36:15.will be HIV negative. In terms of the short-term our

:36:15. > :36:16.In terms of the short-term our In terms of the short-term our

:36:16. > :36:17.practice won't change, it is really practice won't change, it is really

:36:17. > :36:18.practice won't change, it is really for the researchers and the

:36:18. > :36:20.for the researchers and the for the researchers and the

:36:20. > :36:21.academics, I guess, to pull apart academics, I guess, to pull apart

:36:21. > :36:22.academics, I guess, to pull apart what this really means. Where do

:36:22. > :36:23.what this really means. Where do what this really means. Where do

:36:23. > :36:24.what this really means. Where do you think that goes now then, in

:36:24. > :36:25.you think that goes now then, in you think that goes now then, in

:36:25. > :36:26.you think that goes now then, in terms of the research? I think it

:36:26. > :36:26.terms of the research? I think it terms of the research? I think it

:36:26. > :36:27.terms of the research? I think it is looking at the strategic use of

:36:27. > :36:28.is looking at the strategic use of is looking at the strategic use of

:36:28. > :36:30.is looking at the strategic use of the drugs we have got, so the child

:36:30. > :36:31.the drugs we have got, so the child the drugs we have got, so the child

:36:31. > :36:32.that's been presented here had the that's been presented here had the

:36:32. > :36:34.that's been presented here had the that's been presented here had the

:36:34. > :36:37.same drugs that we give to many of same drugs that we give to many of

:36:37. > :36:38.same drugs that we give to many of our patients living with HIV.

:36:38. > :36:39.our patients living with HIV. our patients living with HIV.

:36:39. > :36:40.our patients living with HIV. is nothing new about that? No. What

:36:41. > :36:43.is nothing new about that? No. What is nothing new about that? No. What

:36:43. > :36:44.is nothing new about that? No. What they did the baby was they gave it

:36:44. > :36:45.they did the baby was they gave it they did the baby was they gave it

:36:45. > :36:46.drugs immediately after it was born, drugs immediately after it was born,

:36:46. > :36:48.drugs immediately after it was born, drugs immediately after it was born,

:36:48. > :36:48.very soon after they found out it very soon after they found out it

:36:48. > :36:50.very soon after they found out it was HIV-positive. For most people

:36:50. > :36:51.was HIV-positive. For most people was HIV-positive. For most people

:36:51. > :36:52.was HIV-positive. For most people living in the UK with HIV, we tend

:36:52. > :36:53.living in the UK with HIV, we tend living in the UK with HIV, we tend

:36:53. > :36:54.to not give treatment immediately to not give treatment immediately

:36:54. > :36:54.to not give treatment immediately to not give treatment immediately

:36:54. > :36:55.it is another way to address the it is another way to address the

:36:55. > :36:56.it is another way to address the it is another way to address the

:36:56. > :36:58.strategic use of the drugs we have strategic use of the drugs we have

:36:58. > :37:00.strategic use of the drugs we have got. We know not only does

:37:00. > :37:02.got. We know not only does immediate treatment prevent disease

:37:02. > :37:04.immediate treatment prevent disease progressing, but immediate

:37:04. > :37:05.progressing, but immediate treatment prevents transmission of

:37:05. > :37:06.treatment prevents transmission of treatment prevents transmission of

:37:06. > :37:07.treatment prevents transmission of the virus on to the sexual partners

:37:07. > :37:09.the virus on to the sexual partners the virus on to the sexual partners

:37:09. > :37:10.the virus on to the sexual partners or mothers to children. In terms it

:37:10. > :37:11.or mothers to children. In terms it or mothers to children. In terms it

:37:11. > :37:12.of how society views HIV-aid, do of how society views HIV-aid, do

:37:12. > :37:14.of how society views HIV-aid, do of how society views HIV-aid, do

:37:14. > :37:15.you think there is a degree of you think there is a degree of

:37:15. > :37:17.you think there is a degree of complacency now that perhaps there

:37:17. > :37:19.complacency now that perhaps there complacency now that perhaps there

:37:19. > :37:20.wasn't a few years ago, maybe wasn't a few years ago, maybe

:37:20. > :37:21.wasn't a few years ago, maybe wasn't a few years ago, maybe

:37:21. > :37:22.people think we are on the road to people think we are on the road to

:37:22. > :37:23.people think we are on the road to people think we are on the road to

:37:23. > :37:24.the cure, and we read good news and the cure, and we read good news and

:37:24. > :37:26.the cure, and we read good news and people change their behaviour, and

:37:26. > :37:28.people change their behaviour, and people change their behaviour, and

:37:28. > :37:30.people change their behaviour, and not in a good way? Behaviour is

:37:30. > :37:32.not in a good way? Behaviour is not in a good way? Behaviour is

:37:32. > :37:33.changeing and we are seeing changeing and we are seeing

:37:33. > :37:34.changeing and we are seeing changeing and we are seeing

:37:34. > :37:35.infection rates going up. It is a infection rates going up. It is a

:37:35. > :37:36.infection rates going up. It is a difficult message to balance, if

:37:36. > :37:37.difficult message to balance, if difficult message to balance, if

:37:37. > :37:38.you know your status, get tested you know your status, get tested

:37:38. > :37:40.you know your status, get tested and you can access treatment. If

:37:40. > :37:41.and you can access treatment. If and you can access treatment. If

:37:41. > :37:42.and you can access treatment. If you are tests early enough and put

:37:42. > :37:43.you are tests early enough and put you are tests early enough and put

:37:43. > :37:45.you are tests early enough and put on HIV therapy you could have a

:37:45. > :37:48.on HIV therapy you could have a on HIV therapy you could have a

:37:48. > :37:49.normal life expectancy. You have to normal life expectancy. You have to

:37:50. > :37:50.normal life expectancy. You have to normal life expectancy. You have to

:37:50. > :37:52.balance it not -- it being better balance it not -- it being better

:37:52. > :37:53.balance it not -- it being better not to the-to-get tested in the

:37:53. > :37:54.not to the-to-get tested in the not to the-to-get tested in the

:37:54. > :37:56.not to the-to-get tested in the first place. --Snot to get tested

:37:56. > :37:56.first place. --Snot to get tested first place. --Snot to get tested

:37:56. > :37:58.first place. --Snot to get tested in the first place. --Not to get

:37:58. > :37:58.in the first place. --Not to get in the first place. --Not to get

:37:58. > :37:59.in the first place. --Not to get tested in the first place. Do you

:37:59. > :38:00.tested in the first place. Do you tested in the first place. Do you

:38:00. > :38:01.tested in the first place. Do you see a cure in your lifetime?

:38:01. > :38:02.see a cure in your lifetime? see a cure in your lifetime?

:38:02. > :38:03.see a cure in your lifetime? would like to think that is a

:38:03. > :38:04.would like to think that is a possibility, as you presented

:38:04. > :38:05.possibility, as you presented possibility, as you presented

:38:05. > :38:06.possibility, as you presented earlier, there is one man in the

:38:06. > :38:07.earlier, there is one man in the earlier, there is one man in the

:38:07. > :38:08.earlier, there is one man in the world who really has been cured of

:38:08. > :38:10.world who really has been cured of world who really has been cured of

:38:10. > :38:12.world who really has been cured of HIV, and not quite the same story.

:38:12. > :38:14.HIV, and not quite the same story. HIV, and not quite the same story.

:38:15. > :38:15.He had an incredibly intensive and He had an incredibly intensive and

:38:15. > :38:17.He had an incredibly intensive and not scalable treatment, but it

:38:17. > :38:20.not scalable treatment, but it not scalable treatment, but it

:38:20. > :38:21.showed us the concept is a showed us the concept is a

:38:21. > :38:22.showed us the concept is a possibility. I think that the

:38:22. > :38:23.possibility. I think that the possibility. I think that the

:38:23. > :38:24.possibility. I think that the strategic use of drugs we have got,

:38:24. > :38:25.strategic use of drugs we have got, strategic use of drugs we have got,

:38:25. > :38:27.strategic use of drugs we have got, and adding in another one or two or

:38:27. > :38:27.and adding in another one or two or and adding in another one or two or

:38:27. > :38:29.three categories of treatments, for three categories of treatments, for

:38:29. > :38:30.three categories of treatments, for example the study that's also been

:38:30. > :38:31.example the study that's also been example the study that's also been

:38:31. > :38:32.presented at the conference about presented at the conference about

:38:33. > :38:34.presented at the conference about the anti-cancer drugs, which also

:38:34. > :38:35.the anti-cancer drugs, which also the anti-cancer drugs, which also

:38:35. > :38:36.the anti-cancer drugs, which also seemed to have an affect on waking

:38:36. > :38:37.seemed to have an affect on waking seemed to have an affect on waking

:38:37. > :38:38.seemed to have an affect on waking up the ves voir of the cells. I

:38:38. > :38:40.up the ves voir of the cells. I up the ves voir of the cells. I

:38:40. > :38:41.think overall -- reservoir of the think overall -- reservoir of the

:38:42. > :38:43.think overall -- reservoir of the cells. I think perhaps overall and

:38:43. > :38:43.cells. I think perhaps overall and cells. I think perhaps overall and

:38:43. > :38:44.cells. I think perhaps overall and in the neck decade there will be

:38:44. > :38:46.in the neck decade there will be in the neck decade there will be

:38:46. > :38:47.drugs being used with different drugs being used with different

:38:47. > :38:48.drugs being used with different drugs being used with different

:38:48. > :38:49.agents that may well help to purge agents that may well help to purge

:38:50. > :38:50.agents that may well help to purge the reservoir cells we can't now

:38:50. > :38:51.the reservoir cells we can't now the reservoir cells we can't now

:38:51. > :38:52.the reservoir cells we can't now get. Are you in agreement with that,

:38:52. > :38:53.get. Are you in agreement with that, get. Are you in agreement with that,

:38:53. > :38:55.get. Are you in agreement with that, do you think that is the way in

:38:55. > :38:57.do you think that is the way in do you think that is the way in

:38:57. > :38:58.which, we are talking about the which, we are talking about the

:38:58. > :38:59.which, we are talking about the possibility of a cure some time

:38:59. > :39:00.possibility of a cure some time possibility of a cure some time

:39:00. > :39:01.relatively soon? This is an extra relatively soon? This is an extra

:39:01. > :39:02.relatively soon? This is an extra relatively soon? This is an extra

:39:02. > :39:02.piece of evidence that adds to the piece of evidence that adds to the

:39:02. > :39:04.piece of evidence that adds to the jigsaw. I think it will be

:39:04. > :39:06.jigsaw. I think it will be jigsaw. I think it will be

:39:06. > :39:07.something that scientists can work something that scientists can work

:39:07. > :39:08.something that scientists can work something that scientists can work

:39:08. > :39:08.on. I agree with Sarah about that. on. I agree with Sarah about that.

:39:09. > :39:09.on. I agree with Sarah about that. on. I agree with Sarah about that.

:39:09. > :39:11.Before the end of the programme we Before the end of the programme we

:39:11. > :39:13.Before the end of the programme we will have tomorrow's front pages.

:39:13. > :39:14.will have tomorrow's front pages. will have tomorrow's front pages.

:39:14. > :39:15.But first, the veteran grunge But first, the veteran grunge

:39:15. > :39:17.But first, the veteran grunge rocker, Dave Grohl of Nirvana and

:39:17. > :39:18.rocker, Dave Grohl of Nirvana and rocker, Dave Grohl of Nirvana and

:39:18. > :39:19.Foo Fighters fame, might not Foo Fighters fame, might not

:39:19. > :39:20.Foo Fighters fame, might not immediately strike you as the

:39:20. > :39:20.immediately strike you as the immediately strike you as the

:39:20. > :39:22.sentimental type. When he heard sentimental type. When he heard

:39:22. > :39:24.sentimental type. When he heard they were closing a recording

:39:24. > :39:25.they were closing a recording they were closing a recording

:39:25. > :39:27.studio, where everyone from Johnny studio, where everyone from Johnny

:39:27. > :39:28.studio, where everyone from Johnny Cash to Fleetwood Mac made their

:39:28. > :39:29.Cash to Fleetwood Mac made their Cash to Fleetwood Mac made their

:39:29. > :39:31.classic album, Grohl went out and classic album, Grohl went out and

:39:31. > :39:33.classic album, Grohl went out and classic album, Grohl went out and

:39:33. > :39:35.bought a big piece of it, the old bought a big piece of it, the old

:39:35. > :39:36.bought a big piece of it, the old bought a big piece of it, the old

:39:36. > :39:38.mixing desk to be exact. He has mixing desk to be exact. He has

:39:38. > :39:39.mixing desk to be exact. He has even made a documentary about it.

:39:39. > :39:40.even made a documentary about it. even made a documentary about it.

:39:40. > :39:41.Sound City. You will be astounded Sound City. You will be astounded

:39:41. > :39:45.Sound City. You will be astounded to learn that Dave Grohl uses

:39:45. > :39:52.to learn that Dave Grohl uses strong language here.

:39:52. > :39:53.strong language here. strong language here.

:39:53. > :39:58.Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling. Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling.

:39:58. > :40:00.Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling. Are you ready? Yep.We're rolling.

:40:00. > :40:04.1, 2, 3, 4, Everyone has recorded 1, 2, 3, 4, Everyone has recorded

:40:04. > :40:05.1, 2, 3, 4, Everyone has recorded in it, Neil Young, George Harrison,

:40:05. > :40:13.in it, Neil Young, George Harrison, in it, Neil Young, George Harrison,

:40:13. > :40:14.Fleetwood Mac, Barry Manilow, to Nirvana.

:40:14. > :40:15.Nirvana. Nirvana.

:40:15. > :40:17.Nirvana. What woody allen said about sex is

:40:17. > :40:23.What woody allen said about sex is What woody allen said about sex is

:40:23. > :40:24.also true for rock 'n' roll. also true for rock 'n' roll.

:40:24. > :40:26.also true for rock 'n' roll. also true for rock 'n' roll.

:40:26. > :40:31.Is it dirty? Only when it is done Is it dirty? Only when it is done

:40:31. > :40:31.right. Take Nirvana's break-through album.

:40:32. > :40:32.album. album.

:40:32. > :40:34.album. We had signed to a record company,

:40:34. > :40:34.We had signed to a record company, We had signed to a record company,

:40:34. > :40:35.We had signed to a record company, they said come down here to Los

:40:35. > :40:36.they said come down here to Los they said come down here to Los

:40:36. > :40:37.they said come down here to Los Angeles to make a record. We drove

:40:37. > :40:38.Angeles to make a record. We drove Angeles to make a record. We drove

:40:38. > :40:40.all the way from Seattle, we all the way from Seattle, we

:40:40. > :40:41.all the way from Seattle, we imagined it would be a big

:40:41. > :40:42.imagined it would be a big imagined it would be a big

:40:42. > :40:43.Hollywood studio, we got there and Hollywood studio, we got there and

:40:43. > :40:44.Hollywood studio, we got there and Hollywood studio, we got there and

:40:44. > :40:46.it was a total thump dump, way out it was a total thump dump, way out

:40:46. > :40:48.it was a total thump dump, way out it was a total thump dump, way out

:40:48. > :40:49.in the valley in this nasty Area. in the valley in this nasty Area.

:40:49. > :40:56.in the valley in this nasty Area. It sounds very skaanky. It was

:40:56. > :40:57.It sounds very skaanky. It was It sounds very skaanky. It was

:40:57. > :40:58.pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on

:40:58. > :41:00.pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on pretty skanky. Brown shag carpet on

:41:00. > :41:01.the wall, you would do that to your the wall, you would do that to your

:41:01. > :41:02.the wall, you would do that to your van. The place was trashed already,

:41:02. > :41:03.van. The place was trashed already, van. The place was trashed already,

:41:03. > :41:04.van. The place was trashed already, so anything goes. It was dirty, I

:41:04. > :41:05.so anything goes. It was dirty, I so anything goes. It was dirty, I

:41:05. > :41:06.so anything goes. It was dirty, I didn't feel like I wanted to sit on

:41:06. > :41:06.didn't feel like I wanted to sit on didn't feel like I wanted to sit on

:41:06. > :41:07.didn't feel like I wanted to sit on any of the furniture. When we got

:41:07. > :41:08.any of the furniture. When we got any of the furniture. When we got

:41:08. > :41:09.any of the furniture. When we got there and set up the equipment, we

:41:09. > :41:10.there and set up the equipment, we there and set up the equipment, we

:41:10. > :41:12.recorded one song and realised why recorded one song and realised why

:41:12. > :41:14.recorded one song and realised why this place was so special, the

:41:14. > :41:17.this place was so special, the this place was so special, the

:41:17. > :41:18.sound was incredible. How have you sound was incredible. How have you

:41:18. > :41:19.sound was incredible. How have you prepared yourself Evil? I have kept

:41:19. > :41:20.prepared yourself Evil? I have kept prepared yourself Evil? I have kept

:41:20. > :41:21.myself in good physical shape, I myself in good physical shape, I

:41:21. > :41:22.myself in good physical shape, I myself in good physical shape, I

:41:22. > :41:25.don't drink very much, and I have don't drink very much, and I have

:41:25. > :41:27.never taken a narcotic. never taken a narcotic.

:41:27. > :41:30.never taken a narcotic. David Frost, well served by his

:41:31. > :41:33.David Frost, well served by his cameraman here, quizzing mad-cap

:41:33. > :41:35.cameraman here, quizzing mad-cap motorbike ace Evil Knevil.

:41:36. > :41:39.motorbike ace Evil Knevil. motorbike ace Evil Knevil.

:41:39. > :41:41.Tonight, we reveal the link between Tonight, we reveal the link between

:41:41. > :41:45.Tonight, we reveal the link between Knevil and unlikely recording star,

:41:45. > :41:49.Knevil and unlikely recording star, and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas.

:41:49. > :41:52.and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas. and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas.

:41:52. > :41:53.and Nirvana's Vadim Cobilas. -- Kurt Cobane. There was one day

:41:53. > :41:56.-- Kurt Cobane. There was one day -- Kurt Cobane. There was one day

:41:56. > :41:56.making Nevermind, we snuk in the making Nevermind, we snuk in the

:41:56. > :41:58.making Nevermind, we snuk in the making Nevermind, we snuk in the

:41:58. > :42:00.tape room, you could climb down a tape room, you could climb down a

:42:00. > :42:01.tape room, you could climb down a tape room, you could climb down a

:42:01. > :42:03.ladder in into the room, there were ladder in into the room, there were

:42:03. > :42:04.ladder in into the room, there were Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one,

:42:04. > :42:05.Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one, Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one,

:42:05. > :42:06.Evil Knevil tapes, Kurt stole one, he didn't have a tape machine to

:42:06. > :42:07.he didn't have a tape machine to he didn't have a tape machine to

:42:07. > :42:08.he didn't have a tape machine to he didn't have a tape machine to

:42:08. > :42:09.play it on, he had to have an Evil play it on, he had to have an Evil

:42:09. > :42:12.play it on, he had to have an Evil play it on, he had to have an Evil

:42:12. > :42:13.Knevil. It is being close to the Knevil. It is being close to the

:42:13. > :42:16.Knevil. It is being close to the man, the legend. You ain't seen

:42:16. > :42:17.man, the legend. You ain't seen man, the legend. You ain't seen

:42:17. > :42:21.nothing yet euro-poppers, let us nothing yet euro-poppers, let us

:42:21. > :42:22.nothing yet euro-poppers, let us rock. This rock anthem by Bachman

:42:22. > :42:24.rock. This rock anthem by Bachman rock. This rock anthem by Bachman

:42:24. > :42:25.Turner Overdrive, is one of scores Turner Overdrive, is one of scores

:42:25. > :42:26.Turner Overdrive, is one of scores Turner Overdrive, is one of scores

:42:26. > :42:28.of hits made at Sound City studio, of hits made at Sound City studio,

:42:28. > :42:30.of hits made at Sound City studio, now alas, defunct, Grohl loved it

:42:30. > :42:33.now alas, defunct, Grohl loved it now alas, defunct, Grohl loved it

:42:33. > :42:34.so much, he salvaged the old so much, he salvaged the old

:42:34. > :42:35.analogue recording deck. Not analogue recording deck. Not

:42:35. > :42:45.analogue recording deck. Not everyone who recorded there is

:42:45. > :42:46.

:42:46. > :42:47.everyone who recorded there is quite so bothered.

:42:47. > :42:48.quite so bothered. quite so bothered.

:42:48. > :42:49.quite so bothered. This board you talk about, this is

:42:49. > :42:50.This board you talk about, this is This board you talk about, this is

:42:50. > :42:51.not my world, engineers have to not my world, engineers have to

:42:51. > :42:52.not my world, engineers have to spend hours on the kick drums,

:42:52. > :42:53.spend hours on the kick drums, spend hours on the kick drums,

:42:53. > :42:56.spend hours on the kick drums, please, I would rather have a blood

:42:56. > :42:57.transfusion. transfusion.

:42:57. > :42:59.transfusion. What about younger people, they may

:42:59. > :43:00.What about younger people, they may What about younger people, they may

:43:00. > :43:01.What about younger people, they may What about younger people, they may

:43:01. > :43:02.say, Dave, you are big a bit of a say, Dave, you are big a bit of a

:43:02. > :43:04.say, Dave, you are big a bit of a dinosaur, you might as well

:43:04. > :43:06.dinosaur, you might as well dinosaur, you might as well

:43:06. > :43:07.celebrate the wax cylinder or the celebrate the wax cylinder or the

:43:07. > :43:09.celebrate the wax cylinder or the piano roll. We're all surprised

:43:09. > :43:10.piano roll. We're all surprised piano roll. We're all surprised

:43:10. > :43:11.because we thought the audience because we thought the audience

:43:11. > :43:12.because we thought the audience would be mostly music nerds like

:43:12. > :43:13.would be mostly music nerds like would be mostly music nerds like

:43:13. > :43:15.ourselves, but I had people coming ourselves, but I had people coming

:43:15. > :43:15.ourselves, but I had people coming ourselves, but I had people coming

:43:16. > :43:17.ourselves, but I had people coming up to me every day, I have no idea

:43:17. > :43:19.up to me every day, I have no idea up to me every day, I have no idea

:43:19. > :43:20.up to me every day, I have no idea up to me every day, I have no idea

:43:20. > :43:21.what it is to be in the band, and what it is to be in the band, and

:43:21. > :43:22.what it is to be in the band, and what it is to be in the band, and

:43:22. > :43:22.they said they loved the movie and they said they loved the movie and

:43:22. > :43:26.they said they loved the movie and they said they loved the movie and

:43:26. > :43:27.it inspired them to pick up an instrument.

:43:27. > :43:28.instrument. instrument.

:43:28. > :43:29.instrument. Who killed Sound City, well it was

:43:29. > :43:34.Who killed Sound City, well it was Who killed Sound City, well it was

:43:34. > :43:35.a being from outer space. No, a being from outer space. No,

:43:35. > :43:36.a being from outer space. No, a being from outer space. No,

:43:36. > :43:37.really. Signed up as the face of really. Signed up as the face of

:43:37. > :43:39.really. Signed up as the face of that exciting new product, the CD,

:43:39. > :43:41.that exciting new product, the CD, that exciting new product, the CD,

:43:41. > :43:42.was none other than Mr Spoke. was none other than Mr Spoke.

:43:42. > :43:43.was none other than Mr Spoke. was none other than Mr Spoke.

:43:43. > :43:45.The sound is great, we have been The sound is great, we have been

:43:45. > :43:46.The sound is great, we have been The sound is great, we have been

:43:46. > :43:47.using it on the enterprise for deck using it on the enterprise for deck

:43:47. > :43:47.using it on the enterprise for deck -- Enterprise for decades, it is

:43:47. > :43:52.-- Enterprise for decades, it is -- Enterprise for decades, it is

:43:52. > :43:54.about time it got to earth. about time it got to earth.

:43:54. > :43:56.about time it got to earth. about time it got to earth.

:43:56. > :43:58.As much as he loves the heavy metal As much as he loves the heavy metal

:43:58. > :43:59.As much as he loves the heavy metal of a heavy recording deck, Grohl

:43:59. > :44:01.of a heavy recording deck, Grohl also appreciates the amazing

:44:01. > :44:02.also appreciates the amazing also appreciates the amazing

:44:02. > :44:04.convience of new technology. Well, convience of new technology. Well,

:44:04. > :44:05.up to a point. up to a point.

:44:05. > :44:06.up to a point. up to a point.

:44:06. > :44:07.You can have a laptop, and you can You can have a laptop, and you can

:44:07. > :44:08.You can have a laptop, and you can You can have a laptop, and you can

:44:08. > :44:09.make an album at home, you can do make an album at home, you can do

:44:09. > :44:10.make an album at home, you can do make an album at home, you can do

:44:10. > :44:11.it all by yourself, and at the it all by yourself, and at the

:44:11. > :44:11.it all by yourself, and at the it all by yourself, and at the

:44:11. > :44:13.click of a button distribute it to click of a button distribute it to

:44:13. > :44:14.click of a button distribute it to click of a button distribute it to

:44:14. > :44:15.the rest of the world. That is the rest of the world. That is

:44:15. > :44:16.the rest of the world. That is the rest of the world. That is

:44:16. > :44:17.amazing, I wish I had that when I amazing, I wish I had that when I

:44:17. > :44:18.amazing, I wish I had that when I amazing, I wish I had that when I

:44:18. > :44:20.was 14, I would have made box sets was 14, I would have made box sets

:44:20. > :44:21.was 14, I would have made box sets was 14, I would have made box sets

:44:21. > :44:22.of records. But, the sound thing is of records. But, the sound thing is

:44:22. > :44:23.of records. But, the sound thing is a place like Sound City can't

:44:23. > :44:23.a place like Sound City can't a place like Sound City can't

:44:23. > :44:26.survive in that world. We are survive in that world. We are

:44:26. > :44:26.survive in that world. We are survive in that world. We are

:44:26. > :44:31.trying it pay tribute to that. Now, trying it pay tribute to that. Now,

:44:31. > :44:32.trying it pay tribute to that. Now, trying it pay tribute to that. Now,

:44:32. > :44:33.does that mean that there are more does that mean that there are more

:44:33. > :44:34.incredible albums, because incredible albums, because

:44:34. > :44:42.incredible albums, because everybody has this available to

:44:42. > :44:43.everybody has this available to them? Not really.

:44:43. > :44:45.them? Not really. them? Not really.

:44:46. > :44:47.The high school dropout, who once The high school dropout, who once

:44:47. > :44:49.played wildly uncommercial punk played wildly uncommercial punk

:44:49. > :44:51.played wildly uncommercial punk rock, Grohl's done pretty well for

:44:51. > :44:52.rock, Grohl's done pretty well for rock, Grohl's done pretty well for

:44:52. > :44:53.himself. Now welcoming the grand himself. Now welcoming the grand

:44:53. > :44:57.himself. Now welcoming the grand himself. Now welcoming the grand

:44:57. > :44:58.old men of rock to his studio. old men of rock to his studio.

:44:58. > :44:59.old men of rock to his studio. got in band that became hugely

:44:59. > :45:01.got in band that became hugely got in band that became hugely

:45:01. > :45:03.popular. But we never expected that popular. But we never expected that

:45:03. > :45:03.popular. But we never expected that to happen. So it happened so

:45:03. > :45:05.to happen. So it happened so to happen. So it happened so

:45:05. > :45:06.naturally that I never really naturally that I never really

:45:06. > :45:07.naturally that I never really naturally that I never really

:45:07. > :45:07.imagined it could be a career. It imagined it could be a career. It

:45:08. > :45:08.imagined it could be a career. It imagined it could be a career. It

:45:08. > :45:10.used to be that people would say used to be that people would say

:45:10. > :45:11.used to be that people would say what's your advice of someone who

:45:11. > :45:12.what's your advice of someone who what's your advice of someone who

:45:12. > :45:13.what's your advice of someone who wants a career in music, I say

:45:14. > :45:14.wants a career in music, I say wants a career in music, I say

:45:14. > :45:20.wants a career in music, I say don't have a career in music, just

:45:20. > :45:21.don't have a career in music, just don't have a career in music, just

:45:21. > :45:25.locking play it! Why can't it locking play it! Why can't it

:45:25. > :45:27.locking play it! Why can't it locking play it! Why can't it

:45:27. > :45:28.always be this easy. It is! Dave always be this easy. It is! Dave

:45:28. > :45:38.always be this easy. It is! Dave always be this easy. It is! Dave

:45:38. > :45:55.

:45:55. > :46:00.Grohl and a few friends. Now the Apparently Britons lose more years

:46:00. > :46:01.Apparently Britons lose more years Apparently Britons lose more years

:46:01. > :46:11.to dis debilitating diseases than to dis debilitating diseases than

:46:11. > :46:27.

:46:27. > :46:28.HSBC is ruling out transferring its HSBC is ruling out transferring its

:46:28. > :46:29.HSBC is ruling out transferring its headquarters to Hong Kong, despite

:46:29. > :46:30.headquarters to Hong Kong, despite headquarters to Hong Kong, despite

:46:30. > :46:32.headquarters to Hong Kong, despite the prospect of a bonus cap being

:46:32. > :46:33.the prospect of a bonus cap being the prospect of a bonus cap being

:46:33. > :46:33.the prospect of a bonus cap being imposed by the EU The Mail has The

:46:33. > :46:36.imposed by the EU The Mail has The imposed by the EU The Mail has The

:46:36. > :46:40.Edge Of Love edge story. Edge Of Love edge story.

:46:40. > :46:41.-- Nicola Edgington story. -- Nicola Edgington story.

:46:41. > :46:41.-- Nicola Edgington story. -- Nicola Edgington story.

:46:41. > :46:43.We wanted it leave you with news We wanted it leave you with news

:46:43. > :46:44.We wanted it leave you with news We wanted it leave you with news

:46:44. > :46:47.that the Government is to invest in that the Government is to invest in

:46:47. > :46:49.that the Government is to invest in that the Government is to invest in

:46:49. > :46:51.a successor to the po sayically but a successor to the po sayically but

:46:52. > :46:54.a successor to the po sayically but accurately named -- prosaicly but

:46:54. > :46:58.accurately named -- prosaicly but accurately named "very large

:46:58. > :46:59.accurately named "very large accurately named "very large

:46:59. > :47:02.accurately named "very large telescope". It is going to span the

:47:02. > :47:04.telescope". It is going to span the telescope". It is going to span the

:47:04. > :47:06.telescope". It is going to span the heavens, but will be known as the

:47:06. > :47:16.heavens, but will be known as the "extremely very large telescope".

:47:16. > :47:38.

:47:38. > :47:39.Hello there, it will be mild and Hello there, it will be mild and

:47:39. > :47:40.Hello there, it will be mild and sunny in most places through the

:47:40. > :47:42.sunny in most places through the sunny in most places through the

:47:42. > :47:43.day tomorrow. Starting off with a day tomorrow. Starting off with a

:47:43. > :47:44.day tomorrow. Starting off with a touch of frost and thick fog

:47:44. > :47:46.touch of frost and thick fog touch of frost and thick fog

:47:46. > :47:46.touch of frost and thick fog patches. That fog will take a while

:47:46. > :47:47.patches. That fog will take a while patches. That fog will take a while

:47:47. > :47:48.to clear across north-east England to clear across north-east England

:47:48. > :47:48.to clear across north-east England to clear across north-east England

:47:49. > :47:50.in particular. It may stick to part in particular. It may stick to part

:47:50. > :47:51.in particular. It may stick to part in particular. It may stick to part

:47:51. > :47:52.of the coast here, well into the of the coast here, well into the

:47:52. > :47:53.afternoon. General low across afternoon. General low across

:47:53. > :47:55.afternoon. General low across northern England it will brighten

:47:55. > :47:56.northern England it will brighten northern England it will brighten

:47:57. > :47:58.up with sunshine, and in that up with sunshine, and in that

:47:58. > :47:59.sunshine certainly across the sunshine certainly across the

:47:59. > :48:00.sunshine certainly across the Midlands, East Anglia and the

:48:00. > :48:01.Midlands, East Anglia and the Midlands, East Anglia and the

:48:01. > :48:02.south-east it will feel warm. 14 south-east it will feel warm. 14

:48:02. > :48:03.south-east it will feel warm. 14 degrees in the capital, maybe as

:48:03. > :48:05.degrees in the capital, maybe as degrees in the capital, maybe as

:48:05. > :48:06.degrees in the capital, maybe as high as 15 in one or two places.

:48:07. > :48:07.high as 15 in one or two places. high as 15 in one or two places.

:48:07. > :48:08.high as 15 in one or two places. Temperatures of 11 or 12 in the

:48:08. > :48:09.Temperatures of 11 or 12 in the Temperatures of 11 or 12 in the

:48:09. > :48:10.south west. After a sunny morning south west. After a sunny morning

:48:10. > :48:13.south west. After a sunny morning south west. After a sunny morning

:48:13. > :48:14.we will see more cloud by the we will see more cloud by the

:48:14. > :48:15.afternoon. Clouding over in afternoon. Clouding over in

:48:15. > :48:17.afternoon. Clouding over in Pembrokeshire. For the bulk of

:48:17. > :48:18.Pembrokeshire. For the bulk of Pembrokeshire. For the bulk of

:48:18. > :48:18.Wales a sparkling day. After a Wales a sparkling day. After a

:48:18. > :48:21.Wales a sparkling day. After a frosty start temperatures could get

:48:21. > :48:22.frosty start temperatures could get frosty start temperatures could get

:48:22. > :48:24.frosty start temperatures could get in the teens. A brighter day across

:48:24. > :48:25.in the teens. A brighter day across in the teens. A brighter day across

:48:25. > :48:27.Northern Ireland, a chance of sunny Northern Ireland, a chance of sunny

:48:27. > :48:29.Northern Ireland, a chance of sunny spells. It will stay cloudy across

:48:29. > :48:31.spells. It will stay cloudy across western Scotland too. Elsewhere

:48:31. > :48:32.western Scotland too. Elsewhere western Scotland too. Elsewhere

:48:32. > :48:33.across Scotland, after a frosty across Scotland, after a frosty

:48:33. > :48:34.across Scotland, after a frosty start, after a few fog patches,

:48:34. > :48:35.start, after a few fog patches, start, after a few fog patches,

:48:35. > :48:36.plenty of sunshine. It is all plenty of sunshine. It is all

:48:36. > :48:38.plenty of sunshine. It is all change for Wednesday. Much more

:48:38. > :48:40.change for Wednesday. Much more change for Wednesday. Much more

:48:40. > :48:41.change for Wednesday. Much more cloud, right across the UK. We are

:48:41. > :48:42.cloud, right across the UK. We are cloud, right across the UK. We are

:48:42. > :48:43.expecting outbreaks of rain. It is expecting outbreaks of rain. It is

:48:43. > :48:45.expecting outbreaks of rain. It is looking dull and damp for most

:48:45. > :48:46.looking dull and damp for most place during Wednesday.

:48:46. > :48:47.place during Wednesday. place during Wednesday.

:48:47. > :48:48.Temperatures still in double figure, Temperatures still in double figure,

:48:48. > :48:49.Temperatures still in double figure, Temperatures still in double figure,

:48:49. > :48:52.obviously it won't feel as warm as obviously it won't feel as warm as

:48:52. > :48:53.obviously it won't feel as warm as it will do during Tuesday, without

:48:53. > :48:54.it will do during Tuesday, without it will do during Tuesday, without

:48:54. > :48:55.the sunshine. North West Scotland the sunshine. North West Scotland