0:00:07 > 0:00:12(explosion) No-one has accepted responsibility for the bombs which
0:00:12 > 0:00:16killed three people and injured 170 others at the Boston Marathon
0:00:16 > 0:00:20yesterday. How do you go about finding the perpetrators of an
0:00:20 > 0:00:24outrage like this. The spirit of this city is today
0:00:24 > 0:00:34defiant, with people determined not to yield a victory to whoever
0:00:34 > 0:00:36
0:00:36 > 0:00:41brought terror to the marathon. We will speak to a former FBI export
0:00:41 > 0:00:45and a surgeon who has treated many of the victims. In a moment the
0:00:45 > 0:00:50photographer covering a happy sporting event who found himself in
0:00:50 > 0:00:53the middle of a warzone. We speak to the man who took these pictures.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57Also tonight, David Cameron believes this man can save the
0:00:57 > 0:01:03National Health Service. We talk to him about how such a massive
0:01:03 > 0:01:09organisation can ever be made to work perfectly. What proposals will
0:01:09 > 0:01:15he consider to introduce some greater consistency in sentencing.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18It is a wonderful pleasure to be back here at the Labour club in the
0:01:18 > 0:01:22Sedgefield constituency. Why do privileged public school boys think
0:01:22 > 0:01:32that talking estuary gives them authority. What is happening to our
0:01:32 > 0:01:36
0:01:36 > 0:01:38accents? We have learned a little more about the Boston bombs that
0:01:39 > 0:01:42killed three people last night. We have learned that one of those
0:01:42 > 0:01:49murdered was an eight-year-old boy. We have learned that the bombs were
0:01:49 > 0:01:53packed with schrapnal and nails. But we haven't learned who the
0:01:53 > 0:01:58callous individuals were who planted the bombs, not by what
0:01:58 > 0:02:07perversion of reasons they thought maiming people would advance any
0:02:07 > 0:02:10cause of my kind. We're in Boston. Of course the city was shocked by
0:02:10 > 0:02:17what happened yesterday. You mentioned the loss of the eight-
0:02:17 > 0:02:21year-old boy, tonight just before we went on air, another victim, 29-
0:02:21 > 0:02:24year-old Crystal Campbell was also named from a nearby suburb of the
0:02:24 > 0:02:29city. It is interesting talking to people here that you do get a sense
0:02:29 > 0:02:33of their determination to carry on and to deny whoever did it any kind
0:02:33 > 0:02:37of victory. That, I think is an interesting contrast with this
0:02:37 > 0:02:42country for example after 9/11. Clearly a much greater and more
0:02:42 > 0:02:47shocking event. But you get the sense in some ways that America has
0:02:47 > 0:02:52been inyou are ined to violence to some degree over the intervening
0:02:52 > 0:02:55years, a decade of counter terrorism, also the traumatic
0:02:56 > 0:02:59experience of some of these shootings that have happened here,
0:02:59 > 0:03:08in schools for example. One of which was being commemorated at
0:03:08 > 0:03:11yesterday's event. The crime scene is the subject of minute
0:03:11 > 0:03:16investigation as detectives search for fragments of the bombs that
0:03:16 > 0:03:21might identify who made them. Huge numbers of images are also being
0:03:21 > 0:03:27sifted, trying to find the moment the perpetrator planted them.
0:03:27 > 0:03:32has to be hundreds, if not thousands of photographs or videos
0:03:32 > 0:03:37or observations made down at that finish line yesterday. They are
0:03:37 > 0:03:41sitting down there amongst everyone watching this event this morning. I
0:03:41 > 0:03:44would encourage you to bring forward anything. You might not
0:03:44 > 0:03:50think it is significant but it might add value to this
0:03:50 > 0:03:54investigation. At the scene today the emergency services' union
0:03:54 > 0:03:58representative came to offer a $50,000 reward for information and
0:03:58 > 0:04:02to insist they will find who is responsible. Whoever this person is
0:04:02 > 0:04:06or whatever this person is he will be brought to justice. We will find
0:04:06 > 0:04:10him, we find everybody. We found Osama Bin Laden, we will find this
0:04:10 > 0:04:14person. We will bring him to justice the American way.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18President was briefed by his counter terrorism team but was
0:04:19 > 0:04:24candid enough to admit there is much that is still unknown. What I
0:04:24 > 0:04:31have indicated to you is what we know now. We know there were bombs
0:04:31 > 0:04:36that were set off. We know that obviously they did severe damage.
0:04:36 > 0:04:42We do not who did them. We do not whether this was an act of an
0:04:42 > 0:04:46organisation or an individual or individuals. We don't have a sense
0:04:46 > 0:04:51of motive yet. Everything else at this point is speculation. But as
0:04:51 > 0:04:54we receive more information, as the FBI has more information, as the
0:04:54 > 0:04:57counter terrorism teams have more information, we will make sure to
0:04:57 > 0:05:03keep you and the American people posted. We do know more today that
0:05:03 > 0:05:07there were two bombs rather than the several originally reported,
0:05:07 > 0:05:12but the low explosive was used, possibly old fashioned gun powder
0:05:12 > 0:05:16and the devices could have been encased in pressure cookers, widely
0:05:16 > 0:05:22available T points to a radicalised individual or small group rather
0:05:22 > 0:05:27than some grand international conspiracy. One runner, captured
0:05:27 > 0:05:33yesterday's scenes as the blast killed three and wounded 170. The
0:05:33 > 0:05:38end of the 26-mile course. The eight-year-old boy who died, Martin
0:05:38 > 0:05:42Richard, had been waiting to see his father cross the finishing line.
0:05:42 > 0:05:49The boy's mother and sister waiting with him were also seriously
0:05:49 > 0:05:54wounded by the blast. And how today have people reacted to it? We found
0:05:54 > 0:05:59a quiet determination to deny the perpetrators their benefit. I don't
0:05:59 > 0:06:04think it really affects people in terms of what they or who they
0:06:04 > 0:06:09think this was at this point. Weeks to months to years down the road
0:06:09 > 0:06:15the person or people who did this may impact more global sentiment,
0:06:15 > 0:06:20but I think at an individual level people generally are just horrified
0:06:20 > 0:06:27and it really doesn't matter who it was that did this. Many highlight
0:06:27 > 0:06:35Boston's symbolic role as the place where the struggle for American
0:06:35 > 0:06:41independence started. As a reason why it was targeted and might be
0:06:41 > 0:06:45target targeting is the reason they won't be cowed. I have been here
0:06:46 > 0:06:48many years and there was symbols in 9/11 and there is symbols in this
0:06:48 > 0:06:53event. This is the cradle of liberty, it is the city of Boston,
0:06:53 > 0:06:56where it all began. Even today there have been strenuous efforts
0:06:56 > 0:07:00to clear the marathon debris and reduce the size of the exclusion
0:07:00 > 0:07:06zone around the bomb sites. Boston's answer to the bomber or
0:07:06 > 0:07:11bombers is defiant, a yearning to deny whatever capital was sought by
0:07:11 > 0:07:21an act of terror. Mark, are the authorities as in the
0:07:21 > 0:07:22
0:07:22 > 0:07:27dark as they suggest about who perpetrated it this? There hasn't
0:07:27 > 0:07:32been a breakthrough. We know they went up a false investigative alley
0:07:32 > 0:07:37yesterday. There was a report that a middle eastern man was one of the
0:07:37 > 0:07:41wounded. Possibly had he been the man that placed the bomb. This was
0:07:41 > 0:07:44a hypothesis they looked at for a while, they raided his flat and
0:07:44 > 0:07:48spoke to the people he lived with, he was judged not to be connected
0:07:48 > 0:07:52with it in any way. One thing that was clear is if they do find leads
0:07:52 > 0:07:54and they begin to act on them, there is likely to be a lag for
0:07:54 > 0:07:58quite understandable reasons between them beginning to act on
0:07:58 > 0:08:03them and what they actually tell the wider public. Thinking back to
0:08:03 > 0:08:06some of the previous incidents, after the Oklahoma bombings, the
0:08:06 > 0:08:10best part of 20 years ago, in that case they were also saying they
0:08:10 > 0:08:14knew very little as the news helicopters were going live to the
0:08:14 > 0:08:18scene of raids in Michigan as they descended on suspects that they had
0:08:18 > 0:08:23actually very quickly followed up on. So at the moment no
0:08:23 > 0:08:30breakthrough. But watch this space, as they say. An expectation
0:08:30 > 0:08:35presumably it will be a pretty drawn out investigation? It could
0:08:35 > 0:08:39be but you know the view here seems to be that a forensic sifting,
0:08:39 > 0:08:43particularly of the imagery around the sites where the bombs were
0:08:43 > 0:08:46planted ought to yield something. CCTV cameras obviously on the day
0:08:46 > 0:08:49of the marathon, many thousands of people taking photographs. In the
0:08:49 > 0:08:53past in some of these investigations, we have seen this
0:08:53 > 0:08:57in the UK after the called Brixton pipe bomber struck, individual
0:08:57 > 0:09:01cameras, the images were linked in order to follow a person back along
0:09:01 > 0:09:06the route they had travelled. To build a bigger picture and get
0:09:06 > 0:09:11better images of that person's face. So all of that could be going on
0:09:11 > 0:09:15and when this does yield clue it is may well be that we see action.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19Thank you. And we are going to be exploring some of that methodology
0:09:20 > 0:09:23of that sort of investigation in a few moments with the former FBI
0:09:23 > 0:09:28investigator. The horror of yesterday's attack though has been
0:09:28 > 0:09:34laid bare and dramatic, moving and stills images of the explosions.
0:09:34 > 0:09:39Some of the most dramatic scenes of the chaos which ensued in the
0:09:39 > 0:09:41aftermath of the twin bombs was taken by the local newspaper
0:09:41 > 0:09:46photographer, John Tlumacki. He was picturing runners coming across the
0:09:46 > 0:09:52line for his newspaper, the boss done Globe, when the explosions
0:09:52 > 0:09:56occurred. He quickly found himself capturing the rescue effort. I
0:09:56 > 0:10:03spoke to him before we came on air and asked what happened when the
0:10:03 > 0:10:05bomb went off. I had my camera raised, I was photographing
0:10:05 > 0:10:10families coming across. The explosion went off. Right in front
0:10:10 > 0:10:14of me was a gentleman who fell to the ground. I instinctually ran
0:10:14 > 0:10:24towards the scene of the first explosion and saw what had happened,
0:10:24 > 0:10:30the carnage and the devastation. How did people react? People
0:10:30 > 0:10:33reacted shocked. People were in disbelief. They were yelling "oh my
0:10:33 > 0:10:36good", this is Boston t can't happen. There was a moment of
0:10:37 > 0:10:40silence, I don't think people knew what to do. The first responders
0:10:40 > 0:10:45were there and looking at each other. They were having a difficult
0:10:45 > 0:10:51time moving the barricades away. It was a sense of like, not so much
0:10:51 > 0:10:59panic, but what do we do? What are the rescuers going to do? There was
0:10:59 > 0:11:02such mass casualties. I witnessed two women with their legs blown off.
0:11:02 > 0:11:08They were obviously in grave danger. You know there was moments where I
0:11:08 > 0:11:13walked around and I had to walk through pools of blood and I don't
0:11:13 > 0:11:18know it is inscribable. I hope nobody sees that ever again.
0:11:18 > 0:11:26you feel at all awkward yourself going around taking photographs
0:11:26 > 0:11:30instead of helping people? I was asked that a couple of times. I'm a
0:11:30 > 0:11:37professional photographer, I work for a newspaper. I'm not trained to
0:11:37 > 0:11:41help, I'm not a paramedic. I think if I was a spectator I would have
0:11:42 > 0:11:46helped but because I'm there to record the event nobody else is
0:11:47 > 0:11:51there that was with me. I felt it was my obligation to show the world
0:11:51 > 0:11:56what really happened. It is not a normal response though is it when
0:11:56 > 0:12:02an explosion happens to run towards it? The normal response would be to
0:12:02 > 0:12:05run away? I know, I know. Maybe it was stupid on my part but in
0:12:05 > 0:12:09retrospect I guess it was a dangerous thing to do. Especially
0:12:09 > 0:12:14when a police officer was yelling at me to get out of here and not
0:12:14 > 0:12:18knowing that he was thinking another bomb might be going off. I
0:12:18 > 0:12:21had a lot of emotions running through me. I think it is an
0:12:22 > 0:12:25adrenaline thing. I ran towards it. I think a lot of journalists would
0:12:25 > 0:12:30have done the same thing. That's what you are trained to do. Have
0:12:30 > 0:12:37you been able to find out anything about some of the badly injured
0:12:37 > 0:12:42people you photographed? I know that several of them are in surgery,
0:12:42 > 0:12:49one of the women who I have in the photograph has passed away. I
0:12:49 > 0:12:55believe she lives in Me dford. I knew that the two women that were
0:12:55 > 0:12:59seriously hurt with their fatal injuries there was a policeman
0:12:59 > 0:13:03standing over them and he had fingers on each one of their necks
0:13:03 > 0:13:06checking their pulses. When I got back and looked at the photos I
0:13:06 > 0:13:12tried to be discreet about showing their faces. Did you ever imagine
0:13:13 > 0:13:17you would see anything like this in your own country? I never thought I
0:13:17 > 0:13:21would see it in Boston. I know it has happened in other parts of our
0:13:22 > 0:13:25country. I mean it was a festive day. I have covered the marathon or
0:13:25 > 0:13:3020 years and that location for five years. The streets are aligned with
0:13:30 > 0:13:33flags from every nation. To see that in the end people were being
0:13:33 > 0:13:37wheeled over the finish line in stretchers that were injured,
0:13:37 > 0:13:40rather than the glorious occasion where people are jubilant crossing
0:13:40 > 0:13:46the finish line because they ran all that distance and they trained
0:13:46 > 0:13:51all year. I never thought I would see that. I hope nobody ever sees
0:13:51 > 0:13:59that and it never happens again. I'm lucky I wasn't injured it is
0:13:59 > 0:14:02life, I guess now in Boston. Boston's police chief today
0:14:02 > 0:14:06confirmed that 176 victims of yesterday as attack were treated in
0:14:06 > 0:14:11hospitals around the city. I'm joined now by Dr Alisdair Conn the
0:14:11 > 0:14:15chief of emergency services at the Massachusetts General Hospital, 32
0:14:15 > 0:14:20patients were admitted there yesterday. Eight of them remain in
0:14:20 > 0:14:29intensive care. Dr Conn thank you for joining us. What sort of wounds
0:14:29 > 0:14:33did they have? Most of them were lower extremity words. The most
0:14:34 > 0:14:39seriously had basically traumatic amputations. Their lower legs were
0:14:39 > 0:14:47sort of completely shattered and almost completely removed by the
0:14:47 > 0:14:52explosion. All we did is basically completed those amputations. The
0:14:52 > 0:14:57other critical ones had lower extremity wounds. We were able to
0:14:57 > 0:15:05do a blood vessel reconstruction and keep, we are hoping to salvage
0:15:05 > 0:15:09that limb. But then again we had a lot of wounds in which the small
0:15:09 > 0:15:14ball bearings and metal fragments in the arms and legs and abdomen of
0:15:14 > 0:15:17some patients. These were ball bearings and other pieces of metal
0:15:17 > 0:15:23that had presumably been driven by the force of the blast, they were
0:15:23 > 0:15:30in the bomb or something? That's what we think. The first time I saw
0:15:30 > 0:15:34the gras and the CTs scan -- X-rays and the CT scans we noted how many
0:15:34 > 0:15:39of the small metal fragments there were. We wondered if they were
0:15:39 > 0:15:44enclosed in some sort of device and used to produce a lot of damage. As
0:15:44 > 0:15:48you probably know when you have an explosion these small fragments act
0:15:48 > 0:15:53like little bullets and can penetrate theish tues and provide a
0:15:53 > 0:15:56lot of damage to the tissues -- tissues, and provide a lot of
0:15:56 > 0:16:04damage to the tissues. difficult is it for a doctor to
0:16:04 > 0:16:08deal with? It depends in these patients we had to take them to the
0:16:08 > 0:16:12operating room and try to remove any dead or damaged tissue. When we
0:16:12 > 0:16:16did that we were able to remove some of the metal fragments and
0:16:16 > 0:16:21obviously gave them to the FBI and the appropriate authorities. We are
0:16:21 > 0:16:27hoping they can use this to perhaps determine where these metal
0:16:27 > 0:16:30fragments came from, perhaps give us a lead in terms of who caused
0:16:30 > 0:16:33this tragedy. Some of the patients will need to go back to the
0:16:33 > 0:16:39operating room over the next few days and have further dressings of
0:16:39 > 0:16:48the wounds. These wounds were mainly you say in the lower part of
0:16:48 > 0:16:53their bodies? Yes. The vast number of patients who came in had
0:16:53 > 0:16:56devastating injuries to their lower exfremties. As far as you could
0:16:56 > 0:17:01tell from -- extremities. As far as you could tell from the remains of
0:17:02 > 0:17:05their clothing were they mainly spectators or runners or what?
0:17:05 > 0:17:10of the patients we received and admitted to the hospital were
0:17:10 > 0:17:16spectators. Obviously fairly close to the finish line and were caught
0:17:16 > 0:17:21in the explosion when it occurred. We did treat some runners. But
0:17:21 > 0:17:30those were from heat exshaugs and dehydration. None of the patients
0:17:30 > 0:17:35we received had drawatic injuries that were runners. -- Traumatic
0:17:35 > 0:17:41injuries that were runners. Did all your patients survive? We still
0:17:41 > 0:17:46have seven critical patients but we are hopeful that all of them will
0:17:46 > 0:17:51survive. Four of them have unfortunately traumatic amputations
0:17:51 > 0:18:01of one of the lower extremities. None of the patients at the
0:18:01 > 0:18:04
0:18:04 > 0:18:09Massachusetts General have had both legs needed to be amputated.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12joined by Chris Swecker, formerly number three at the FBI and has
0:18:12 > 0:18:18experience with bombings in the US and the Middle East. With us is
0:18:18 > 0:18:21Jane Harman, a Democrat, former Congresswoman who served on all of
0:18:21 > 0:18:28Congress's national security committees, and now sits on the
0:18:28 > 0:18:38Pentagon's defence review board. Mr Swecker, how do you go about
0:18:38 > 0:18:38
0:18:38 > 0:18:41discovering what happened from what's left afterwards? It is a
0:18:41 > 0:18:45methodical forensic investigation. They will look out the entire area
0:18:45 > 0:18:48of the street and look at every inch of territory there. They are
0:18:48 > 0:18:54looking for tiny fragments of mettleal. They are looking for
0:18:54 > 0:18:58evidence of a detonation device. There are, there is an extensive
0:18:58 > 0:19:02library of these types of impro- advised explosive devices. They can
0:19:02 > 0:19:08do a lot with that material. important is the first 48 hours or
0:19:08 > 0:19:11so of an investigation like this? Very critical. Usually there are
0:19:11 > 0:19:16very good leads developed in the first 48 hours, if not the first 24
0:19:16 > 0:19:19hours. I had high hopes that some video would have been produced by
0:19:19 > 0:19:23now that would have shown some things. At least had a suspect out
0:19:23 > 0:19:26to the public, a photo out to the public at this point. I'm taking
0:19:26 > 0:19:31that to mean they are still going through the video and haven't found
0:19:31 > 0:19:37anything significant yet. I will come to you in a second
0:19:37 > 0:19:42Congresswoman, in I may, I just want to check, what they are doing
0:19:42 > 0:19:46Mr Swecker is asking people to send in any pictures, any images at all
0:19:46 > 0:19:52they may have. By that it means you build up a comprehensive picture,
0:19:52 > 0:19:55is that what's going on? Yes it is. They are even canvasing people if
0:19:55 > 0:20:00they are leaving at the airport to see if they might have video or
0:20:00 > 0:20:03pictures that might be helpful. Apparently they did get some good
0:20:03 > 0:20:06forensic evidence in terms of understanding what kind of
0:20:06 > 0:20:15container was utilised. Apparently it was pressure cookers. We have
0:20:16 > 0:20:21seen that before. What conclusions do you draw? Well we no that the
0:20:21 > 0:20:25Inspire Magazine that was produced in English by Samir Khan on the
0:20:25 > 0:20:30Internet and touted at open source Jihad provided these very
0:20:30 > 0:20:36directions on how to build a bomb out of every day kitchen devices
0:20:36 > 0:20:39and materials. So in particular reference was made to pressure
0:20:39 > 0:20:45cookers. Is this the new information you just referred to
0:20:45 > 0:20:50about the nature of the containers, pressure bookers? That's correct.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54What can you tell us about that? They are reporting in the US the
0:20:54 > 0:20:58recent press conference in the last 20 minutes. They reported that they
0:20:58 > 0:21:03had some evidence that some pressure cookers were, the
0:21:03 > 0:21:06containers for the bombs. In other words you can create a bomb by
0:21:06 > 0:21:11putting schrapnal, material, ball bearings and that sort of thing
0:21:11 > 0:21:17inside a pot and creating a detonation device and you have got
0:21:17 > 0:21:20a homemade bomb. Now Jane Harman, Mr Swecker was referring to the
0:21:20 > 0:21:24press conference, the news conference. There were a very large
0:21:24 > 0:21:28number of representatives of different organisations on the
0:21:28 > 0:21:37podium there. How much of a problem is that in this sort of
0:21:37 > 0:21:39investigation? I don't think it is a problem. In fact there is a whole
0:21:39 > 0:21:44Government approach to investigating this crime. That is
0:21:44 > 0:21:48what we want. I was in Congress during 9/11 and I watched agencies
0:21:48 > 0:21:54of Government operate in their own silos, and in fact 9/11 was an
0:21:54 > 0:22:00example of that. We had the firefighters climbing the towers in
0:22:00 > 0:22:03New York as they were glowing red with the NWPD respects overhead and
0:22:03 > 0:22:07they couldn't communicate with each other. We lost additional lives
0:22:07 > 0:22:12because of that. I want to comment on the Internet material, I have an
0:22:12 > 0:22:16example, this is from this Inspire Magazine. This is how to build a
0:22:16 > 0:22:21bomb in the kitchen. Hold it a bit more in front of you, we can't
0:22:21 > 0:22:26quite see it, that's it, fine. That's the pressure cooker and here
0:22:26 > 0:22:30is the detonator, it is on here too. Here it is which is a typical clock
0:22:30 > 0:22:40which may have been used. One of the things I want to say about this
0:22:40 > 0:22:40
0:22:40 > 0:22:44this is not ...put the clock back? No, we want to see your face now we
0:22:44 > 0:22:49have seen the pictures. Thank you, this is not the only source of
0:22:49 > 0:22:54material, something called the Anarchist Cook Book, prepared in
0:22:54 > 0:23:01the early 70 by somebody offended by the Vietnam War, an American.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05Let's not assume that if these materials were used and if they
0:23:05 > 0:23:09were, because they are easily available on the Internet that
0:23:09 > 0:23:13there is a connection necessarily to some Yemeni terrorist, there may
0:23:13 > 0:23:18not be. Unfortunately these materials are widely available,
0:23:18 > 0:23:22even if you don't buy the hoax cuss poke cuss at the front end telling
0:23:22 > 0:23:26you why you should follow Jihad, you might just follow the
0:23:26 > 0:23:31instructions for a different reason. We have to be careful not to leap
0:23:31 > 0:23:35to conclusions about who did this and why they might have done it. It
0:23:35 > 0:23:40seems as though a back pack contained a pressure cooker bomb or
0:23:40 > 0:23:43series of bombs with some kind of timer and it was dropped in trash
0:23:43 > 0:23:47cans or something of that nature. We have seen this before. I wanted
0:23:47 > 0:23:51today say that pipe bombs, a variation of this were used in
0:23:51 > 0:23:57Atlanta during the Olympics in the mid-1990s. It took seven years to
0:23:57 > 0:24:02find the guy who did it. We first false low accused somebody else. It
0:24:02 > 0:24:07took -- falsely accused somebody else. The only way we found him was
0:24:07 > 0:24:12he used pipe bombs in other states similar to the Atlanta bombs. We
0:24:12 > 0:24:17will find out who did this, but it is not an easy problem to solve. If
0:24:17 > 0:24:21they were acting alone particularly. It is striking that no-one has
0:24:21 > 0:24:24attempted to claim responsibility for it yet? That is true. That is a
0:24:24 > 0:24:27hallmark of international terrorist organisations. They are very proud
0:24:27 > 0:24:34of their work, they are very quick to take credit for their work. That
0:24:34 > 0:24:38is the point of terrorism. To strike here in people and target
0:24:38 > 0:24:42iconic events like this. That is an interesting angle. The former
0:24:42 > 0:24:45Congresswoman is correct. This could very well be domestic
0:24:45 > 0:24:49terrorism. I don't believe anybody has taken their eye off that
0:24:49 > 0:24:53possibility. What is your experience as a former senior FBI
0:24:53 > 0:24:59figure about the number of agencies that are involved in an
0:24:59 > 0:25:02investigation of this kind. What is your experience? Well there are
0:25:03 > 0:25:09joint terrorism task forces across the country. There are only a few
0:25:09 > 0:25:12prior to 9/11. There are over 100 of them now post 9/11. They are
0:25:12 > 0:25:16designed to create an interagency environment and eliminate all of
0:25:16 > 0:25:21that getting to know you, who is in charge sort of thing. That should
0:25:21 > 0:25:24not be happening here. It looks to me like this is very harmonious.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27There is great co-operation here and I think they have worked well
0:25:27 > 0:25:33together in the past. This is not the first time they have had to
0:25:33 > 0:25:38work together. It is striking I think looking at President Obama's
0:25:38 > 0:25:42comments that he has been very, very measured in what he has said,
0:25:42 > 0:25:45hasn't he? This is President Obama, let's understand he's a highly
0:25:45 > 0:25:48trained lawyer, he used to teach constitutional law. It was
0:25:48 > 0:25:52interesting he gave a press conference last night and did not
0:25:52 > 0:25:55call what happened terrorism, he gave one this morning and did call
0:25:55 > 0:26:00it terrorism. I think by any garden variety definition of terrorism
0:26:00 > 0:26:05this was terrorism. The question is by whom and for what motive? I'm
0:26:05 > 0:26:10cautioning again that we need to be very careful before we stigmatise a
0:26:10 > 0:26:15group or engage in some very discriminatory behaviour, because
0:26:15 > 0:26:20we could be wrong. Mr Swecker does this lead to brief politicians on
0:26:20 > 0:26:24what is happening. How difficult is that for an investigator? Well, as
0:26:24 > 0:26:28you saw at the press conference there it is a cast of thousands. It
0:26:28 > 0:26:34is quite difficult to try to run an investigation and keep local
0:26:34 > 0:26:39politicians up to speed on what's going on. But you know they are
0:26:39 > 0:26:43used to doing this. The agent is charge is very competent. He has
0:26:43 > 0:26:48been down this road before. I don't think it is particularly
0:26:48 > 0:26:51troublesome at this point. Thank you very much. Yes, please, Jane
0:26:51 > 0:26:55Harman? I argue it is important to keep politicians briefed,
0:26:55 > 0:26:59especially Congress. These are voices that can assure people who
0:27:00 > 0:27:04are enormously anxious. The Mayor of Boston is a beloved figure, he
0:27:04 > 0:27:10has served longer than any other mayor in Massachusetts history,
0:27:10 > 0:27:14having him leave his hospital bed, he is apparently quite ill and have
0:27:14 > 0:27:18him preside over a press conference means a lot to those who were just
0:27:19 > 0:27:22deaf vase tated by yesterday as attacks.
0:27:22 > 0:27:28Later on Newsnight the rain in Spain has nothing much to do with
0:27:28 > 0:27:35it. Why are Posh and Becks getting posher, while ministers want to
0:27:35 > 0:27:38talk like barrow boys? It ought to be the first thing you are entitled
0:27:38 > 0:27:43to expect when putting yourself in the hands of doctors and nurse, as
0:27:43 > 0:27:46Hippocrates put it, "first that they do no harm ". A succession of
0:27:46 > 0:27:50scandals in the National Health Service, most recently the
0:27:50 > 0:27:54appalling and unnecessary suffering of hundreds of people at Stafford
0:27:55 > 0:27:58Hospital has shown how that promise has been betrayed in this country.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02The principle of zero harm is an objective in companies across the
0:28:02 > 0:28:06land. How to achieve it in an organisation as vast as the
0:28:06 > 0:28:16National Health Service? David Cameron has given answering that
0:28:16 > 0:28:26question to President Obama's favourite healthcare expert, Donald
0:28:26 > 0:28:26
0:28:26 > 0:28:30Boawick. This is a safety huddle. At the
0:28:30 > 0:28:34start of every shift here at Salford Royal Hospital the ward
0:28:34 > 0:28:41sister makes sure everybody knows which patients need a little extra
0:28:41 > 0:28:44help. Ulcers bed 11. Staff here say the safety huddle is one of the
0:28:44 > 0:28:50ways they have managed to make this one of the safest hospitals in the
0:28:50 > 0:28:56UK. Ward sisters are also promoted to ward matron if they meet set
0:28:57 > 0:29:00standards. Salford Royal is a beacon hospital. They claim the
0:29:00 > 0:29:08fifth-lowest mortality rate in the country. And 98% of patients would
0:29:08 > 0:29:11recommend to family and friends. David Cameron visited in January
0:29:11 > 0:29:16last year. And the director of nursing and chief executive here
0:29:16 > 0:29:20are part of a team helping the Government work out how other
0:29:20 > 0:29:24hospitals can improve patient safety.
0:29:24 > 0:29:28The public inquiry into patient neglect at Mid Staffs said the
0:29:28 > 0:29:34culture of the NHS must change to put the patient first. And with the
0:29:34 > 0:29:38central ten knit of "zero tolerance" of harm. -- tenet of
0:29:38 > 0:29:41"zero tolerance" of harm. You have to start by respecting the staff on
0:29:41 > 0:29:44the frontline. Most of the solutions to reducing harm are
0:29:45 > 0:29:49going to be found in our ward and clinical environments amongst the
0:29:49 > 0:29:52staff who work there. They are not going to be found in a chief
0:29:53 > 0:30:01executive's office. One of the most devisive issues to
0:30:01 > 0:30:06be resolved is how best to ensure that poor care is corrected. Making
0:30:06 > 0:30:10sure staff feel they are able to report instances of harm and they
0:30:10 > 0:30:14know no blame will be associated with them if they do report. It has
0:30:14 > 0:30:17been open to our patients and families if things go wrong, and
0:30:17 > 0:30:21occasionally they do, that we should immediately say that. We
0:30:21 > 0:30:25should apologise for it and seek an explanation. We should learn from
0:30:25 > 0:30:32what went wrong. Director of nursing, Elaine
0:30:32 > 0:30:36Inglesby-Burke showed us the safety board of key stas at the entrance
0:30:36 > 0:30:42of each ward -- statistics at the entrance of each ward. It tells me
0:30:42 > 0:30:46how safe the ward is and how safe the ward is for patients and
0:30:46 > 0:30:52families. We have MRSA infections, it is over a year since one has
0:30:52 > 0:30:55been acquired on the ward. We have falls, which you do experience in
0:30:55 > 0:31:00an elderly care facility. We are working really hard to reduce them.
0:31:00 > 0:31:03It has been one day. Previously I was up here last week it was 19
0:31:03 > 0:31:07days since they had a fall. From a ward perspective, from the staff,
0:31:07 > 0:31:17this is really, really important to them that this is publicly
0:31:17 > 0:31:21displayed. They are accountable for the safe care in this area.
0:31:21 > 0:31:26Good morning Cliff, are you feeling OK today? Staff here say something
0:31:26 > 0:31:32called intentional rounding is also key. That's doing regular checks on
0:31:32 > 0:31:37patients to pre-empt problems. As the percentage of the population
0:31:37 > 0:31:41aged over 65 rises, care will become more complex. About a
0:31:41 > 0:31:51quarter of hospital beds are currently occupied by people with
0:31:51 > 0:31:53
0:31:53 > 0:31:56dementia. Would you like a fork or spoon? We went to the Friarage
0:31:56 > 0:32:01Hospital near Middlesborough, they are reaching out to local
0:32:01 > 0:32:04volunteers to help when demands are high, such as meal times.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07I wonder what you think about the idea of having volunteers in
0:32:07 > 0:32:11hospitals? Very good idea. think it is sensible? I think so,
0:32:11 > 0:32:20yes. How about the idea that you are not worried they are not
0:32:20 > 0:32:24nurses? I thought you might be asking that. Yes, no I don't it
0:32:24 > 0:32:28will bother. They have the sense to say hang about and dash off and get
0:32:28 > 0:32:34a nurse haven't they. If you didn't have that help would you it be
0:32:34 > 0:32:44quite a struggle? I could manage myself. I do have a bit of struggle
0:32:44 > 0:32:44
0:32:44 > 0:32:49with the cream to get the corner off. I stab -- the salad cream
0:32:49 > 0:32:53packet to get the corner off, I stab it with the fork. Some people
0:32:53 > 0:32:58just want a chat, we hold their hands if they want to talk.
0:32:58 > 0:33:03Johnson has seen hospital care from both side. She's a former nurse,
0:33:03 > 0:33:07she's 59 now and was diagnosed with early on set Alzheimer's seven
0:33:07 > 0:33:11years ago. What have you found most difficult about being in hospital
0:33:11 > 0:33:16yourself? They should assess a patient to see what the patient
0:33:16 > 0:33:22needs help with. For example Ann what do you need? I have problems
0:33:22 > 0:33:27with things like tap. Some you lift, some you turn, some you push. What
0:33:27 > 0:33:30do I do with the tap, how do I flush the toilet. They should
0:33:30 > 0:33:37assess the patient needs taking to the toilet and bringing back.
0:33:37 > 0:33:44Sometimes what's needed is simple. Dignity and respect is so important.
0:33:44 > 0:33:49Just love me for who I am and that will go a long way. This is a
0:33:49 > 0:33:54generational opportunity out of tragedy for nursing to stand up, be
0:33:54 > 0:33:57bold and to reclaim their territory, if you like. To actually prove to
0:33:57 > 0:34:01the country that care and compassion is at the heart of
0:34:01 > 0:34:05everything we do. Many hospitals are not as glowing
0:34:05 > 0:34:11as Salford Royal and have a long journey before they can be
0:34:11 > 0:34:14confident they are not causing patients harm.
0:34:14 > 0:34:19The Professor advising the Government on how to improve
0:34:19 > 0:34:25patient safety is here with me now. First of all, what is it you are
0:34:25 > 0:34:29seeking? I was asked by the Government and service to form a
0:34:29 > 0:34:34committee to take under advisement the detailed and impressive report
0:34:34 > 0:34:39that has already been done on Mid Staffordshire, and digest them into
0:34:39 > 0:34:45some actionable recommendations. This target of zero harm, what is
0:34:45 > 0:34:47zero harm? It is an aspiration. As you said when we go to get help in
0:34:48 > 0:34:52healthcare we should have an expectation that everything that
0:34:52 > 0:34:58can be done to help us can be done, and nothing will be done to harm us.
0:34:58 > 0:35:03Harm is almost always unintentional. But the correct safety system is
0:35:03 > 0:35:07one which everyone at work every day takes no harm as inevitable.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10achievable? It is important to hold the aspiration. Whether it is
0:35:10 > 0:35:14achievable over any period of time I can't say. There are places that
0:35:15 > 0:35:18have achieved remarkable results, you saw some in the initial opening
0:35:18 > 0:35:22week. We can go a year without certain kinds of infections, that
0:35:22 > 0:35:27is good. It is an enormous enterprise the National Health
0:35:27 > 0:35:32Service. You are never going to get all of it at zero harm are you?
0:35:32 > 0:35:39Probably not. But the minute one admits to any harm is inevitable
0:35:39 > 0:35:43the game is lost. The attitude in a culture or complex system is to
0:35:43 > 0:35:47work and everything every day to make it safe. Harm is inevitable
0:35:47 > 0:35:52isn't it? It depends on the exact kind of harm we are talking about.
0:35:52 > 0:35:56It depends on the degree of energy that one puts into actually
0:35:56 > 0:36:00intercepting the harm. Error is inevitable, we are all human, not
0:36:00 > 0:36:05every error has to result in injury. What has gone wrong in the NHS that
0:36:05 > 0:36:09we can't take zero harm for granted? I think gone wrong in the
0:36:09 > 0:36:16NHS is not how I would think about it, it is what can the NHS improve.
0:36:16 > 0:36:20How can we be better every day. Something has gone wrong if you
0:36:20 > 0:36:24can't be certain of zero harm? Something has gone wrong when
0:36:24 > 0:36:27leaders and the work force don't intend every day and try every day
0:36:27 > 0:36:32to achieve safer care. Something can be set right. It is possible
0:36:32 > 0:36:40with proper leadership and the energy we see in the best of the
0:36:40 > 0:36:43NHS to ri chief -- achieve astounding results. To a layman is
0:36:43 > 0:36:47seems remarkable this situation could have come about. There was
0:36:47 > 0:36:52one particular scandal here at Stafford Hospital that has
0:36:52 > 0:36:56horrified many, many people. It is clearly not unique. Unique on that
0:36:56 > 0:37:03scale perhaps, but it is not unique that things go wrong, there are
0:37:03 > 0:37:08errors, harm is done. Yet you have said publicly you love the NHS? It
0:37:08 > 0:37:14is a romance for you? I don't know how you reconcile these two things?
0:37:15 > 0:37:17When the NHS was founded in this country you made a magnificent step
0:37:17 > 0:37:23towards establishing healthcare as a human right, I deeply respect
0:37:23 > 0:37:27that. This is a nation completely committed to the NHS as a service.
0:37:27 > 0:37:31It is large undertaking and it is never done. You are on a continuous
0:37:31 > 0:37:36process to making the NHS ever better. Isn't part of the problem
0:37:36 > 0:37:40that in this country it is almost treated a secular religion? People
0:37:40 > 0:37:45value it in all countries, especially in this country. I
0:37:45 > 0:37:50notice the degree of embrace of the NHS. You saw it in those remarkable
0:37:50 > 0:37:55Olympic ceremonies as your counselrated. Danny boil has
0:37:55 > 0:37:59exactly the same religion you have -- Danny Boyle has the same
0:37:59 > 0:38:05religion you have got, he loves the NHS? I deeply respect it, when you
0:38:05 > 0:38:09have an enterprise of 1.4 million employees and serving a country of
0:38:09 > 0:38:18millions, you have to work very hard, it is not automatic. Isn't
0:38:18 > 0:38:21that where the complace sense comes in? -- Complace cy comes in?
0:38:21 > 0:38:25Sometimes things go wrong and the attention of leaders is needed
0:38:25 > 0:38:30every day to maintain excellence and see it improves. Let me ask you
0:38:30 > 0:38:33about another aspect that has come up recently this duty of candour.
0:38:33 > 0:38:37The proposal is that be applied at an institutional level, should it
0:38:37 > 0:38:41apply to individuals? I had the privilege of chairing a committee
0:38:41 > 0:38:45whose report is due in July, I won't prejudice their answer. We
0:38:45 > 0:38:48are lucky to have a remarkable group of experts deeply committed
0:38:48 > 0:38:52to understanding what to do. Our report will speak to that. My own
0:38:52 > 0:38:55view right now is based on the science of safety and improvement.
0:38:55 > 0:38:58What we know is in order to have a safe environment whether it is a.
0:38:58 > 0:39:02Ho, a nuclear power plant or an aircraft carrier, you have to have
0:39:02 > 0:39:08openness, people have to be able to say what they see and be encouraged
0:39:08 > 0:39:14and celebrated to do it, even to report their own mistakes. If duty
0:39:14 > 0:39:19of candour means a bias towards sharing information, absolutely. As
0:39:19 > 0:39:22an essential property. Not if it make them liable to their own
0:39:22 > 0:39:27mistakes? Leadership needs to build an environment that means people
0:39:27 > 0:39:31aren't fearful to speak up. You may see something today and if you are
0:39:31 > 0:39:35frightened we have a problem. The idea is transparency and openness.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38You are with the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt? I don't know which
0:39:38 > 0:39:43aspect of his position you are talking about. Afterall we have a
0:39:43 > 0:39:48committee at work to decide what to do. What I am sure about from the
0:39:48 > 0:39:53science of safety is that a safe environment is by definition an
0:39:53 > 0:39:57open one, where we can talk about what we see. But if it renders
0:39:57 > 0:40:02somebody personally liable, that's a big issue, isn't it? People do
0:40:02 > 0:40:06what makes sense, if it takes sense to speak up and share what one sees
0:40:06 > 0:40:12if that is valued by one's peers and culture one will do that. If
0:40:12 > 0:40:18peer isam beeent and people are frightened --am beeant and people
0:40:19 > 0:40:26are frightened when they speak you will get the situation that comes
0:40:26 > 0:40:29from that. You have seen and more of the N sh. S, warts and all, I'm
0:40:29 > 0:40:36not suggesting you didn't know previously. Has it affected how you
0:40:36 > 0:40:38feel about it at an emotional level? Nobody can read the Mid
0:40:38 > 0:40:42Staffordshire report without empathy and sympathy for the
0:40:42 > 0:40:47patients, carers and staff that suffered. People really suffered,
0:40:47 > 0:40:51it tears your heart out. Maybe it gives me more energy that I have
0:40:51 > 0:40:55had before to say no. We can be better than that, you can be and
0:40:55 > 0:40:59have a service that is devoted every single day for safety. We
0:40:59 > 0:41:08know technically how to do that. It has refuelled my tank. It hasn't
0:41:08 > 0:41:12made you feel any less of it? a great human endeavour, I would
0:41:12 > 0:41:17love to see this country succeed with healthcare that sets a
0:41:17 > 0:41:22standard for the whole world. Linguist students at Manchester
0:41:22 > 0:41:26University proudly announced today that they discovered that David and
0:41:26 > 0:41:32Victoria Beckham are talking more posh than they used. They have
0:41:32 > 0:41:37changed their hair colour and tattoo, why not accents. Received
0:41:37 > 0:41:41pronunciation, as it used to be called, signified a higher class
0:41:41 > 0:41:45than a different accent. That is where Margaret Thatcher went on to
0:41:45 > 0:41:55sound like the Duchess of Devonshire. When a public schoolboy
0:41:55 > 0:42:00
0:42:00 > 0:42:04gets to Downing Street he wants to "tall loi tha".
0:42:04 > 0:42:08Elocution, articulate, social mobility.
0:42:08 > 0:42:14# You say either # I say either
0:42:14 > 0:42:18# You say neither # I say neither
0:42:19 > 0:42:22High spirits at the BBC deportment college, did you spot Fiona Bruce.
0:42:22 > 0:42:26Manners make the man and woman. What about speech? People with no
0:42:26 > 0:42:30shortage of time on their hands reckon David Beckham is talking
0:42:30 > 0:42:36posher now. REPORTER: David are you happy to go to Real Madrid? Yeah.
0:42:36 > 0:42:40Let's see for ourselves. If we play well and I play well we could beat
0:42:40 > 0:42:44them, we knew we was the better team. We done that and we come back
0:42:44 > 0:42:49from the 1-0 deficit and the character shone through. It is a
0:42:49 > 0:42:57special moment for the country, for the team and a special moment for
0:42:57 > 0:43:06myself to be involved in this. This programme's worthless if it
0:43:06 > 0:43:16isn't an analytical tool, we turned to the director of the London
0:43:16 > 0:43:21Speech Workshop. Something instead somethin, and "t "on the end of
0:43:21 > 0:43:25words. I think he sound better in the second clip. It has been
0:43:25 > 0:43:28exciting and honouring and touching. The impression he makes has changed
0:43:28 > 0:43:32an awful lot. That is the key thing. It is pretty obvious that is his
0:43:32 > 0:43:37purpose in doing voice work, which I'm fairly sure he has done. Is to
0:43:37 > 0:43:41actually change the impression he makes. Let's look at how some other
0:43:41 > 0:43:45great voices of these islands have changed, and what that might tell
0:43:45 > 0:43:48us. I nearly went over the edge I was down on the floor with ten
0:43:48 > 0:43:53people on top of me and looking down on this crowd I was seething
0:43:53 > 0:44:00underneath. What would be your favourite spot
0:44:00 > 0:44:07in the UK? The silly Isles looks lovely, you can't get any further
0:44:07 > 0:44:11west than "tha". My strong suspicion is in private Sir Mick
0:44:11 > 0:44:16Jagger sounds not unlike our blessed Prime Minister, or somebody
0:44:16 > 0:44:23like that. The travelling preacher of social observation on the
0:44:23 > 0:44:28Rolling Stones frontman Mick Jagger. He is obliged, in his public
0:44:28 > 0:44:32persona to maintain something of the sort of mockney nasal whine
0:44:32 > 0:44:39that he developed as a suburban London middle-class boy who had
0:44:39 > 0:44:43gone to the LSE. He developed that in order to be a popstar. Eggs
0:44:43 > 0:44:47specially for myself and my brother, you ain't ever going to find
0:44:47 > 0:44:53someone to jump into the position they would hold, simple as that.
0:44:53 > 0:45:01think the way Prince Harry sounds is today's sort of Sloane sound,
0:45:01 > 0:45:06which is more knocked back than a previous cohort of Sloanes and
0:45:06 > 0:45:15people from his class. I think that there is also the requirement to be
0:45:15 > 0:45:20"one of the lads". It is a lowering, not a raising? Enough is enough.
0:45:20 > 0:45:24that's it. To say to the Government of the day, enough is enough.
0:45:24 > 0:45:29the eve of her funeral, we have to mention Baroness Thatcher and her
0:45:29 > 0:45:35voice coaching. What did she say was her greatest achievement? Oh
0:45:35 > 0:45:40yes, new Labour! Some treated with relative leniency, others in the
0:45:40 > 0:45:49Norfolk case with some severity. tell you what I like, I'd like one
0:45:49 > 0:45:58of those. He has gone from very posh and heightened up, to this
0:45:58 > 0:46:04nasal trail, "severity", and this "a" on the end instead of "e", to
0:46:04 > 0:46:07almost Cockney, "I tell you what I loike". For too long we have a
0:46:07 > 0:46:11system where people who do the right thing, who get up in the
0:46:11 > 0:46:21morning and work hard felt penalised for them. Out of all of
0:46:21 > 0:46:21
0:46:21 > 0:46:26them that's the most painful. Why?'S Dropping his "h", "we've ah".
0:46:26 > 0:46:33David Beckham felt authentic but that feels inauthentic for me.
0:46:33 > 0:46:43one of our vocally madeover politician put it, it is all about
0:46:43 > 0:47:05
0:47:06 > 0:47:12"elocution, elocution elocution". "elocution, elocution elocution".
0:47:12 > 0:47:15That's all, innit, bye! Good evening, more windy weather over
0:47:15 > 0:47:19the next couple of days. Some strong wind on Wednesday,
0:47:19 > 0:47:24especially to the north and west. We have got some rain, again it is
0:47:24 > 0:47:27Northern Ireland, Scotland starting off with the wettest as the weather
0:47:27 > 0:47:32moving slowly northwards by the afternoon. A few showers in
0:47:32 > 0:47:37Northern Ireland by 4.00pm. Temperatures about 123. Outbreak of
0:47:37 > 0:47:43rain for parts of Scotland. Temperatures through the central
0:47:43 > 0:47:47lowlands up to 11. The rain heavy in Galloway by the afternoon and
0:47:47 > 0:47:50affecting Cumbria. Further south it should be dryer. Sunshine for
0:47:50 > 0:47:55Yorkshire, Lincolnshire. Through the East Midlands and temperatures
0:47:55 > 0:47:58to the south-east could lift around 19, 20 degrees. A small chance of a
0:47:58 > 0:48:03shower, most places missing those and staying dry. A little more
0:48:03 > 0:48:07cloud across south-west England. Here a fine afternoon. For Wales
0:48:07 > 0:48:10the wettest of the weather around guard began bay.
0:48:10 > 0:48:18Temperatures really a little bit above average on Wednesday, despite
0:48:18 > 0:48:21those strong wind. They drop back on Thursday, more typical array of
0:48:21 > 0:48:24temperatures, a mixture of sunshine and showers. The showers heaviest
0:48:24 > 0:48:27the further north and west you are being blown in by another strong