:00:14. > :00:17.Immigration is one of the most contentious political issues in
:00:17. > :00:21.Britain, with fears expressed in Parliament and some newspapers that
:00:21. > :00:28.come the first of January 2014, Bulgarians and Romanians will flood
:00:28. > :00:31.to Britain. In the first in-depth poll commissioned for Newsnight we
:00:31. > :00:36.look into how many intend to travel to the UK, how many have made plans
:00:36. > :00:40.to come and whether restrictions on certain benefits would influence
:00:40. > :00:46.their decision to travel. The Romanian Prime Minister tells us
:00:46. > :00:49.how many of his countrymen he expects to come to the UK.
:00:49. > :00:54.Romanian economy is growing, not very fast, but it is growing. Even
:00:54. > :00:59.the number of jobs in Romania and I think that absolutely from the
:00:59. > :01:03.first of January nothing significant is going to change
:01:03. > :01:07.regarding the Romanians' migration to the United Kingdom. We'll be
:01:07. > :01:14.talk together Bulgarian ambassador and politicians about the poll's
:01:14. > :01:20.findings. Also tonight, move over William
:01:20. > :01:23.Shatner, this is Chris Hadfield, Space Station commander and the new
:01:23. > :01:30.YouTube galactic superstar with essential top tips, including how
:01:30. > :01:40.to rinse a flannel in zero gravity. Now let's start wringing it out.
:01:40. > :01:49.
:01:49. > :01:53.Good evening. From January 1 next year the work restrictions imposed
:01:53. > :01:57.by the Government for Bulgarians and remainians will expire here and
:01:57. > :02:00.also in eight other European countries, including France, Spain
:02:00. > :02:04.and Germany. Romania and Bulgaria are amongst the poorest countries
:02:04. > :02:07.in Europe and when they joined the EU in 2007, there were fears of
:02:07. > :02:12.mass migration, hence the restrictions, but will the UK
:02:12. > :02:17.experience the same sort of influx we had from Poland and the Czech
:02:17. > :02:22.Republic? A new sore have a for Newsnight conducted face to face
:02:22. > :02:25.polling people of working age in both Romania and Bulgaria. They
:02:25. > :02:29.found out who had concrete plans to come? The result is Britain is
:02:29. > :02:33.certainly growing on the radar as a destination, but the poll suggests
:02:33. > :02:43.a majority from both countries say they would want a firm job offer in
:02:43. > :02:47.
:02:47. > :02:51.order to actually come here. Here's Romania and Bulgaria are amongst
:02:52. > :02:58.the poorest countries in Europe. When they joined the European Union
:02:58. > :03:01.in 2007, some other states imposed work restrictions on their people,
:03:01. > :03:04.fearing many would migrate w. Those restrictions due to expire at end
:03:04. > :03:10.of this year, those concerns have resurfaced specially in Britain,
:03:10. > :03:13.where so many people have come from Poland and other new member states.
:03:13. > :03:20.We wanted to find out how many people were really likely to move
:03:20. > :03:23.to the UK next year. In February we commissioned a test poll asking the
:03:23. > :03:29.independent research agency to question a thousand people across
:03:29. > :03:34.Bulgaria. We asked if people intended to come to the UK to work.
:03:34. > :03:40.Over a quarter of the respondants said yes. Times are tough, many
:03:40. > :03:44.Bulgarians dream of a better life and some surveys as many as 50% of
:03:44. > :03:50.Bulgarians say they like to work abroad. Over the last decade only
:03:50. > :03:54.around 6% have actually gone. To get more useful data the analyst
:03:54. > :04:02.told us we would have to ask different questions. Usually, you
:04:02. > :04:07.have to distinguish between a general intention or a general
:04:07. > :04:11.consideration - would you buy more books, as I gave you more example,
:04:11. > :04:17.would you buy more books more year, would you definitely want to read
:04:17. > :04:25.more books? But in the end you might buy no books next year,
:04:25. > :04:29.because of different factors. we commissioned two agencys to work
:04:29. > :04:33.together to design a more sophisticated questionnaire to
:04:33. > :04:37.distinguish between aspiration to come and work in Britain and real,
:04:37. > :04:43.concrete plans. Last month, they interviewed over a thousand people,
:04:43. > :04:47.face to face, in each country across the towns, villages and
:04:47. > :04:51.cities of Bulgaria and Romania. First, we asked people to name
:04:51. > :04:55.where they'd like to work in the European Union. In the past, people
:04:55. > :04:59.from these countries often worked in states they could reach by car
:04:59. > :05:04.or where the culture and language are closer to their own. Our survey
:05:04. > :05:08.suggests the UK is becoming a more aive -- attractive deaf nation to
:05:08. > :05:13.people. For Romanians Italy and Spain were the top destinations for
:05:13. > :05:18.years. That was apparent in our survey too. Most of the people who
:05:18. > :05:23.worked in the EU before had been to those two countries. Of the
:05:23. > :05:30.Romanians, 197 people of the over a thousand surveyed intended to work
:05:30. > :05:38.in another EU country in 2013. 30% still wanted to go to Italy. 24% to
:05:38. > :05:44.Germany and 16% to the UK. 73 of the over a thousand surveyed
:05:44. > :05:51.intended to work in another EU country in 2014. 25% to Italy, 18%
:05:51. > :05:55.to Germany and 26% to the UK. Bulgaria is a much smaller country.
:05:55. > :05:59.Its population a third the size of Romania. Bulgarians in our survey,
:05:59. > :06:04.who had previously worked elsewhere, had mostly been in Germany, Greece
:06:04. > :06:10.or Spain. When we asked about working elsewhere in the EU this
:06:10. > :06:15.year: Of the over a thousand Bulgarians surveyed, 242 said they
:06:15. > :06:23.wanted to work in another EU country this year. 30% wanted to go
:06:23. > :06:29.to Germany, 27% to the UK, 10% to Spain. As for 2014: 123 people of
:06:29. > :06:35.the over a thousand surveyed said they'd go. 31% wanted to go to
:06:35. > :06:42.Germany, 24% to the UK, 12% to Spain.
:06:42. > :06:44.Some people said one country for 2013 and a different one for 2014,
:06:44. > :06:48.so they appear twice in. Britain there's an expectation that many
:06:48. > :06:53.people are planning to come next year, not now. But our survey
:06:54. > :07:01.suggested that's not the case so far. Do you think they physically
:07:01. > :07:05.bumped into each other? No. This is an English class in Bulgaria for
:07:05. > :07:11.people of working age, the very place you might think to find
:07:11. > :07:18.people thinking of emigrating once restrictions go. But the students
:07:18. > :07:25.here want to help their careers at home. Working abroad is not so easy.
:07:25. > :07:33.For me, it's not a good chance to realisation in. Bulgariana there
:07:33. > :07:41.are enough work and if you want to work hard, it will not be a problem
:07:41. > :07:45.to stay and be success in bull gairya. Bulgaria. They didn't see
:07:46. > :07:52.immigration a problem for Britain or Bulgaria. If we know English and
:07:52. > :07:57.we are very skilful, you have a lot of jobs there. So it will be a good
:07:57. > :08:03.reason to go there. Actually, we will grow to your economy, it will
:08:03. > :08:08.be good for both of UK and Bulgaria. How many people are really
:08:08. > :08:13.interested in moving to the UK? When we asked the Romanians to pick
:08:13. > :08:18.their First Choice country in the EU, 4.% of the entire survey wanted
:08:18. > :08:24.to come to the UK to work in 2013/14. When we asked the
:08:24. > :08:28.Bulgarians to do the same, 9.3% of them picked the UK. Then we asked
:08:28. > :08:34.directly about the UK, some people wouldn't think of it as an EU
:08:34. > :08:41.member. That raised the Romanian figure to 8.2% of the entire survey
:08:41. > :08:45.and the Bulgarian to 13.6% of the entire survey. There's a lot of
:08:45. > :08:50.difference between intending to work in the UK, as these Bulgarian
:08:50. > :08:55.students would one day like to do. Ever since I read the first Harry
:08:55. > :08:58.Potter book, I kind of started to love England. Mainly because of Top
:08:59. > :09:05.Gear, I'm not sure, because it's, you know, it's a great passion for
:09:05. > :09:08.me. I really like the presenters. And real, concrete plans, we asked
:09:08. > :09:13.very specific questions both of those would picked the UK and those
:09:13. > :09:20.who had been prompted. Have you started looking for a job with a
:09:20. > :09:23.recruitment agency? 0.3% of the Romanians said yes, 2.8% of the
:09:23. > :09:28.Bulgarians. Have you started looking for a job without a
:09:28. > :09:33.recruitment agency? 0.7% of the Romanians said yes. 1.4% of the
:09:33. > :09:42.Bulgarians. Have you started looking for accommodation? 0.4% of
:09:42. > :09:45.the rove mainians said yes. 1.2% of the Bulgarians. With small results,
:09:45. > :09:50.like those from Romania, analysts say it's hard to estimate real
:09:50. > :09:54.numbers. I think can you get an overall trend, when you look at
:09:54. > :09:59.overall people looking at if, for instance, who is making plans. Who
:09:59. > :10:02.has spoken, for instance to a recruitment consultancy. Some of
:10:02. > :10:06.the sample sizes are small to say specifically these are the numbers
:10:06. > :10:10.of people coming. Many people from Poland and other eastern European
:10:10. > :10:13.countries came to Britain without a job. Our survey suggests that when
:10:13. > :10:18.it comes to Romanians and Bulgarians, for now, most would
:10:18. > :10:22.only come to the UK with a firm offer of work. Another reason why
:10:22. > :10:26.it's difficult to predict how many people might move.
:10:26. > :10:33.Of the Romanians who said they wanted to work in the UK, that's 90
:10:33. > :10:37.people over the 1,000 surveyed, 65% said they would only move to the UK
:10:37. > :10:41.with a firm offer from a recruitment agency or directly from
:10:41. > :10:47.a country. Of the Bulgarians, that's 138 of the over a thousand
:10:47. > :10:51.surveyed, 60% of them said they'd only move with a firm offer of work.
:10:51. > :10:55.I don't think that we'll see a mass exodus out of Bulgaria. People who
:10:55. > :11:02.wanted to leave have already left or gone somewhere, come back, gone
:11:02. > :11:06.somewhere as well, come back. I think going back to the survey, 60%
:11:06. > :11:09.of people want a firm job offer. They realise just going it a place
:11:09. > :11:14.that looks nice in the pictures is not going to make their life better.
:11:14. > :11:18.So what kind of people are interested in moving to the UK? The
:11:18. > :11:23.Bulgarian survey suggested they tend to be younger and more likely
:11:23. > :11:26.to be unemployed compared with the Romanians. The Romanian survey
:11:26. > :11:29.suggested people interested in moving to the UK are more likely to
:11:29. > :11:36.have a university degree and are likely to be more affluent than
:11:36. > :11:40.average in the survey. In the English Bar in one of Bucharest's
:11:40. > :11:44.grandest old hotels, we met some of those young Romanian professionals
:11:44. > :11:47.and to give them a flavour of the way this topic is seen in Britain,
:11:47. > :11:51.we showed them David Cameron's speech from last month. By the end
:11:51. > :11:56.of this year, and before the controls on Bulgarians and
:11:56. > :11:58.Romanians are lifted, we're going to strengthen the test that
:11:58. > :12:03.determines which migrants can access benefits. They said they'd
:12:03. > :12:08.only move to further their careers, not to claim benefits, but they got
:12:08. > :12:15.David Cameron's point. I got the message. I think all the Romanians
:12:15. > :12:20.who are aware of the message got it. I think now we just have to wait
:12:20. > :12:25.and see. Our survey identified 90 respondants in Romania who were
:12:25. > :12:32.interested in working in the UK. Our survey suggested they could be
:12:32. > :12:34.put off by benefits changes. We said, the UK Government may
:12:34. > :12:37.consider restricting state benefits that Romanians could claim. If they
:12:38. > :12:42.did, to what extent would this affect your decision to go to work
:12:42. > :12:46.in this country? Of those who said they were interested in the UK,
:12:46. > :12:52.those 90 people out of over a thousand surveyed, just under half
:12:52. > :12:57.said it would affect their decision to a great or very great extent.
:12:57. > :13:03.The respondant numbers are small. The results surprise the Romanian
:13:03. > :13:06.minister of labour. TRANSLATION: There is a certain
:13:06. > :13:11.percentage influenced by this, the idea that they may not be able to
:13:11. > :13:15.claim benefits when they're in difficulty. This is not the purpose
:13:15. > :13:20.of the legislation in the UK. As I understand it, it's intended to
:13:20. > :13:25.prevent abuses and ensure fairness and equality for all the citizens
:13:25. > :13:28.of the European Union. She did tell us that the Romanian government
:13:28. > :13:34.were concerned about benefit fraud and were talk together British
:13:34. > :13:38.government about how to combat it. In Bulgaria, most people interested
:13:38. > :13:44.in working in the UK said a benefits change would not affect
:13:44. > :13:49.their decision. There's been a lot of speculation in the British press
:13:49. > :13:53.about Roma moving to Britain. Our Romanian survey did not show any
:13:53. > :13:57.Roma planning to move to the UK, though once again, the sample was
:13:57. > :14:01.small. In Bulgaria there are more Roma in the population and many of
:14:01. > :14:05.them are used to work ago broad for periods of time.
:14:05. > :14:08.TRANSLATION: I do seasonal work. I was in Spain for three months. I
:14:08. > :14:12.came back. Everything was absolutely fine. I was paid
:14:12. > :14:21.properly. I was paid what they promised to pay me. People were
:14:21. > :14:26.very friendly so everything was fine. Looking at the ethnic break
:14:26. > :14:31.down of those would wanted to come to the UK in 2013 and 2014, 10% of
:14:31. > :14:37.those were Roma. While Roma represent 5% of the overall
:14:38. > :14:43.Bulgarian population. These results should be treated with caution
:14:43. > :14:47.because of the small sample size. Several elements stand out from our
:14:47. > :14:51.surveys. First, when you ask people if they intend to seek work in the
:14:51. > :14:55.UK, many people say yes, but if you follow that with more concrete
:14:55. > :14:58.questions like - are you looking for a job? And are you looking for
:14:59. > :15:03.somewhere to live? Those numbers fall significantly. Second, there's
:15:03. > :15:08.no sign, for the moment, that many people are waiting till the end of
:15:08. > :15:12.the year when work restrictions are lifted. And thirdly, this seems to
:15:12. > :15:16.be a more considered migration in prospect at least, than the mass
:15:16. > :15:22.movement of people from Poland and the other accession countries in
:15:22. > :15:32.2004. But this is a survey, a snapshot of opinion in time. And
:15:32. > :15:36.
:15:36. > :15:40.information about people who are interested in moving to Britain. We
:15:40. > :15:47.are publishing everything online. As one observer said, real evidence
:15:47. > :15:52.about migration from these countries is sparse.
:15:52. > :15:54.Earlier, I spoke to the Romanian prime minister, Victor Ponta, and
:15:54. > :16:03.asked him what he thought about the number of Romanians considering
:16:03. > :16:07.coming to the UK. Only a small percentage of Romanians think of the
:16:07. > :16:13.United Kingdom as being the best destination. They prefer Italy or
:16:13. > :16:23.Germany because of the mentality, and it is closer to Romania. I am
:16:23. > :16:25.
:16:25. > :16:27.sure it will not be a phenomenon. There will be very normal limits,
:16:27. > :16:33.something like what happened to countries which lifted their
:16:34. > :16:39.restriction earlier than in the UK. Not like the migration we had from
:16:39. > :16:47.Poland in 2004, then? You think it will be different? Yes, because the
:16:47. > :16:53.wave of Romanians migration was already during 2007-2008. The main
:16:53. > :16:59.destination was Spain and Italy, because of the Latin culture and
:16:59. > :17:04.language and roots. Right now, fortunately, the Romanian economy is
:17:04. > :17:11.growing. Not very fast, but it is growing. And even the number of jobs
:17:12. > :17:19.in Romania is growing. From first January, nothing significant will
:17:19. > :17:23.change regarding Romanian migration to the UK. You talk about the
:17:23. > :17:31.Romanian growth in the economy. Are you worried about a brain drain?
:17:31. > :17:38.Absolutely, because the brain drain is a phenomenon that all countries
:17:38. > :17:42.in Eastern Europe have been confronted with. But that is why I
:17:42. > :17:52.am more optimistic than I would have been several years ago, because
:17:52. > :17:52.
:17:52. > :17:58.lately, a lot of international companies, especially software
:17:58. > :18:03.engineering and technology companies have come to Romania. They opened
:18:03. > :18:10.new projects and they are hiring young, skilful people here to give
:18:10. > :18:15.them good jobs and wages. So what do you make of some of the newspaper
:18:15. > :18:19.stories and the perception among some in the United Kingdom that
:18:20. > :18:26.Romanians are work-shy, even criminally inclined? Those stories
:18:26. > :18:36.go about. What do you make of that? Of course I am very aware that
:18:36. > :18:38.
:18:38. > :18:42.Romanian citizens have committed not necessarily serious crime, but some
:18:42. > :18:51.Romanians and representatives of the Roma minority are involved in small
:18:51. > :18:53.criminality like begging, stealing. I think that first of all, we should
:18:53. > :19:02.cooperate in our police and law enforcement agencies. On the other
:19:02. > :19:08.hand, it is a huge challenge and a big concern for my government to
:19:08. > :19:14.implement a strategy for integration of the Roma communities. What do you
:19:14. > :19:20.make of David Cameron's rhetoric about imposing benefit restrictions
:19:20. > :19:27.on incomers from Bulgaria and Romania? If not only the British
:19:27. > :19:32.government, but the German one or the French one will enforce better
:19:32. > :19:36.legislation for avoiding people coming from Eastern Europe or other
:19:36. > :19:40.parts of the world just for social benefits, I think that would be very
:19:40. > :19:45.fair from the point of view of the British government. I would support
:19:45. > :19:50.this. All we ask is that we don't have discrimination. All the
:19:50. > :19:57.legislation which applies to German citizens or Italian citizens should
:19:57. > :20:02.apply also to Romania and Bulgaria. When our pollsters spoke to young
:20:03. > :20:07.professional Romanians, they did not like the benefit restrictions,
:20:07. > :20:14.because it made them feel like they were not wanted. One banker said to
:20:14. > :20:19.us, well, we now get the message, as in, we are not wanted by the United
:20:19. > :20:24.Kingdom. I would not make a confusion between some critics in
:20:24. > :20:31.the media and the general mood. think that well trained and skilled
:20:31. > :20:36.people will always be welcome in your society, and they would be a
:20:36. > :20:44.great loss for Romania to have such good people going to the United
:20:44. > :20:48.Kingdom or the United States or Germany or France. I would say it is
:20:48. > :20:54.just an issue to be better communicated and to give assurance
:20:54. > :21:04.to the British public that there is no danger of a wave of immigrants
:21:04. > :21:10.coming from Romania and Bulgaria. Thank you very much.
:21:10. > :21:13.Our political editor joins us now. What do you think the political
:21:13. > :21:18.implications are for these findings? Some will be gloating from the
:21:18. > :21:21.coalition, partly because they feel that on the last point during the
:21:21. > :21:25.interview about the benefit clamp-down having had some effect,
:21:25. > :21:29.they will feel some vindication. What will not happen is that
:21:29. > :21:34.immigration will diminish as a political football in this country.
:21:34. > :21:38.There was a series of British reasons, but in a nutshell, you saw
:21:38. > :21:44.Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP today, contesting the poll very
:21:44. > :21:48.fiercely. As long as he does that, the other politicians will not be
:21:48. > :21:54.able to leave the pitch, to extend the football metaphor, because as
:21:54. > :21:57.long as UKIP are talking the language that a lot of people feel
:21:57. > :22:03.about immigration, other political leaders don't feel they can soften
:22:03. > :22:07.their language. If you are the Conservatives, one of your best
:22:08. > :22:11.policies is bringing this pledge in of bringing immigration down to net
:22:12. > :22:14.tens of thousands. If you are the Labour Party, the problem for you is
:22:14. > :22:18.that Gordon Brown had that interaction with Mrs Duffy where he
:22:18. > :22:22.appeared to not know that the public were worried about immigration. They
:22:22. > :22:26.have to show that they understand that and that their policies are now
:22:26. > :22:32.different. In the last ten years in this country, immigration has polled
:22:32. > :22:40.very high. It is not a recent thing. It does not seem to move with an
:22:40. > :22:43.influx or a reduction. It is about complicated emotional things around
:22:43. > :22:46.fear of change or even a fear that you don't understand your local
:22:46. > :22:50.economy. It is not about straightforward facts and numbers,
:22:50. > :22:56.it is about feelings. That is why the poll is important, but it might
:22:56. > :23:01.not change a huge amount. The British public have heard the
:23:01. > :23:06.establishment and maybe even the BBC underestimate immigration before in
:23:06. > :23:15.2004, so they will be waiting to see whether what has been predicted
:23:15. > :23:18.today comes to pass. To discuss the polling results, I am
:23:18. > :23:23.joined by Konstantin Dimitrov, Bulgaria's ambassador to Britain,
:23:23. > :23:29.Chris Bryant, the shadow immigration minister, the Conservative MP Nadhim
:23:29. > :23:33.Zahawi and Paul Nuttall MEP from the UK Independence Party. Paul Nuttall,
:23:33. > :23:42.you heard the Romanian prime minister saying he did not think
:23:42. > :23:47.there would be a massive change come January one. The overall trend is as
:23:47. > :23:54.much speculative migration as in 2004. Let me deal with the poll.
:23:54. > :23:58.was a tiny sample size. 1000 in each country. Let me make one point
:23:58. > :24:05.here. Each percentage in that poll, if you extrapolate and compare it to
:24:05. > :24:09.the working population of Bulgaria and Romania, it works out at 74,000
:24:09. > :24:14.Bulgarians and 190,000 Romanians per percentage in that poll. We have had
:24:14. > :24:20.a national poll to look at this for us today. These are not just UKIP
:24:20. > :24:25.figures. We are talking big numbers here. Nadhim Zahawi, do you feel
:24:25. > :24:28.reassured by this snapshot? It is worth pointing out that the only
:24:28. > :24:34.major party in 2010 that was talking about immigration was the
:24:35. > :24:38.Conservative Party. And David Cameron was the one saying, we have
:24:38. > :24:42.to bring it down to tens of thousands, not hundreds of
:24:42. > :24:51.thousands, because for too long, we had an open door policy under
:24:51. > :24:55.Labour. I campaigned on immigration because people are rightly
:24:55. > :24:59.concerned. It is not just the white populations, it is the hard-working
:24:59. > :25:03.immigrant populations who are concerned. But one immigrant
:25:03. > :25:06.population follows another, and they can all be hard-working. I don't
:25:06. > :25:15.disagree with you, but as a coalition government, we have
:25:15. > :25:22.firstly brought down net migration numbers by a third. Only one third
:25:22. > :25:26.of the net migration numbers, from the European Union. And 15% is Brits
:25:26. > :25:31.returning home. Let's talk about Bulgaria and remain near.
:25:31. > :25:36.Ambassador, does this tally with things happening in Bulgaria? It
:25:36. > :25:44.seems that people are being more circumspect about arriving here
:25:44. > :25:47.without having a con creaked linked with the job -- a concrete job.
:25:47. > :25:54.Absolutely, for a number of reasons. People know that the situation is
:25:54. > :25:58.not rosy here. We have a triple dip recession, and there is very good
:25:59. > :26:04.information about the plans of your government. It is not quite a triple
:26:04. > :26:08.dip, but we are not in great shape. That is what many analysts say.
:26:09. > :26:13.people talk about going to a foreign country, they see whether they would
:26:13. > :26:21.go somewhere whether there is a job opportunity, or if it is more of
:26:21. > :26:23.what they have at home, repeated on a foreign ground. The issue of
:26:23. > :26:31.benefits was interesting, because for the Romanian people we spoke
:26:31. > :26:36.to, the message was that the benefits restrictions show that they
:26:36. > :26:40.are not wanted here, where is the Bulgarians did not care whether
:26:40. > :26:45.there were benefits restrictions. There is a very important point here
:26:45. > :26:53.that the desire of the Bulgarians to come here is only to work, without
:26:53. > :26:56.resort to the benefit systems. are young, aged between 18 and 35,
:26:56. > :27:03.single or married without dependent children. They want to work legally
:27:03. > :27:07.if there is demand. If there is no demand, they will not come. I
:27:07. > :27:12.visited the capital of Bulgaria a few months ago, and I found that the
:27:12. > :27:17.people who are looking to come to the UK do tend to be young and
:27:17. > :27:22.educated. Would you welcome them? Well, the jobs just aren't here.
:27:22. > :27:27.would be better for the young and brightest of Bulgaria who are going
:27:27. > :27:30.to become teachers, accountants and lawyers, to stay in Bulgaria, get
:27:30. > :27:34.their economy kickstarted and get their society sorted out, because
:27:34. > :27:38.you have problems with corruption, rather than coming here and serving
:27:38. > :27:42.tea and coffee in bars and restaurants in London. I agree that
:27:42. > :27:45.it is the policy of our government to create more job opportunities
:27:45. > :27:53.back home. But those who come are not coming to use your social
:27:53. > :27:55.benefit system, but only because there is a demand for specific
:27:55. > :27:58.categories of labour. But Paul Nuttall is saying that the young
:27:58. > :28:02.Bulgarians we spoke to, who were highly educated, were prepared to
:28:02. > :28:08.come here to do jobs that were not at their level of educational
:28:08. > :28:12.attainment. But that is questionable, because the sample
:28:12. > :28:19.represents a small percentage of the population. The authors of the study
:28:19. > :28:25.refused to make a prognosis on trends throughout the population of
:28:25. > :28:30.Bulgaria. That is one intrinsic deficiency of such a survey if it is
:28:30. > :28:33.to be extrapolated to general numbers. But in all situations where
:28:33. > :28:41.you have one country where wages are much lower than in another country,
:28:41. > :28:50.people will be prepared, despite having very advanced skills, to work
:28:50. > :28:54.at a much lower level in another country. Given that part of the
:28:54. > :29:00.problem in this debate is that in 2004, the doors were opened, as
:29:00. > :29:08.evidenced by Ed Miliband. Can I do the apology on behalf of the Labour
:29:08. > :29:12.Party? ! Do it again! There was a serious mistake made in 2004, which
:29:12. > :29:22.is that all the British political parties believed an enlargement of
:29:22. > :29:29.the European Union. Just let me finish. Not all of the parties said
:29:29. > :29:33.that. Britain went out on a limb. Unlike France, Germany and Italy, we
:29:33. > :29:39.decided to allow people to come to the UK immediately from day one and
:29:40. > :29:43.be able to work. One of the things we have seen recently is that
:29:43. > :29:47.unscrupulous employers in this country will bring in people from
:29:47. > :29:51.much lower weight economies elsewhere in the European Union,
:29:51. > :29:56.charge the cost of their travel, put them in substandard accommodation
:29:56. > :29:59.and then not pay them the proper national minimum wage. That is
:29:59. > :30:03.exploitation of those workers, and it undercuts British workers who
:30:03. > :30:08.don't have the option of living in substandard accommodation. What can
:30:08. > :30:12.we do? We could have a proper register of social housing so that
:30:12. > :30:17.nobody is exploited in that way. Secondly, we need a proper national
:30:17. > :30:27.minimum wage. People coming from Bulgaria would not get access to
:30:27. > :30:38.
:30:38. > :30:44.We're looking at this. Let me go back... The nub of the issue here
:30:44. > :30:48.is we have to have a farewell fair entitlement system. Now the cross-
:30:48. > :30:53.departmental work that Mark Harper is doing where housing, welfare
:30:53. > :30:58.entitlement and health care are going to be dealt with in a fairway
:30:58. > :31:02.so the British public see that there is fairness in the system.
:31:02. > :31:06.We're saying that Bulgarians and Romanians, what we found, one thing
:31:06. > :31:10.that was found from the survey was that neither Bulgarians or
:31:10. > :31:16.Romanians were influenced bit whole question of benefits or not. That's
:31:16. > :31:20.not the point. Romanians were. Bulgarians were not influenced and
:31:20. > :31:25.back to the questions of what type of work they want to do here. It is
:31:25. > :31:33.the type of work for which are the Brits don't want to compete. This
:31:33. > :31:38.is extremely important. No-one wants to work in substandard...
:31:38. > :31:42.slightly... Substandard conditions. If there is exploitation... Do you
:31:42. > :31:47.really want your countrymen and women to have to work in exploited
:31:47. > :31:50.situations? No.Aren't you worried about brain drain in your own
:31:50. > :31:56.country? We discourage of movement of people. We cannot stop them from
:31:56. > :32:00.coming here on condition that they work here legally. Can I just say,
:32:00. > :32:03.this is not specific to Bulgaria and Romania, it applies to other
:32:03. > :32:07.countries as well. Where there's a big gap between wages you can earn
:32:07. > :32:10.in this country, where even the national minimum wage seems a high
:32:10. > :32:13.amount of money to somebody from some other countries, there is
:32:13. > :32:17.always going to be that danger. You have to enforce the rules properly.
:32:17. > :32:21.There hasn't been a single prosecution in the last two years
:32:21. > :32:24.on the minimum wage. The bigger picture is this: We can't stop
:32:24. > :32:28.people from coming here because we're members of the European Union.
:32:28. > :32:33.They control the borders on this issue. It's economic madness. I put
:32:33. > :32:36.it to you, it's economic madness for us, when we have 22% youth
:32:36. > :32:41.unemployment, a million of our own kids are at home doing nothing, to
:32:41. > :32:47.encourage even more people to come to this country. It's not a matter
:32:47. > :32:52.of encouragement. No, you can't. We have the free movement of labour.
:32:52. > :32:57.You're an MEP for whatever, you know, that is the law. The same way
:32:57. > :33:00.that we have lots of British people working in other European countries.
:33:00. > :33:05.They're different. The majority of British workers in the European
:33:05. > :33:09.Union are pensioners. That's not true. A lot of British nationals
:33:09. > :33:13.are working in Romania. I doubt that very much. I want to make the
:33:13. > :33:17.point about the young people. I have very high level of youth
:33:17. > :33:22.unemployment in my constituency. It's risen by some 200% in the last
:33:22. > :33:26.year. I think, I do get quite angry with some British employers who
:33:26. > :33:30.decide, who have decided not to bodger to train British youngsters
:33:30. > :33:34.to work in the hospitality industry or construction industry. It would
:33:34. > :33:37.be nice sometimes when you go into a British hotel if the receptionist
:33:37. > :33:41.was British. So is this the Gordon Brown, British jobs for British
:33:41. > :33:46.workers? No, it's not. But what we need to give our young people are
:33:46. > :33:51.the skills and opportunity to go out and get those jobs. There's a
:33:51. > :33:55.hotel in my constituency, quite often, it's not been able employ
:33:55. > :33:59.locally. It's ended up employing from Estonia and lats Sree ya,
:33:59. > :34:03.because they have so much get up and go they've got up and gone.
:34:03. > :34:06.Doesn't that sho you that's a very good example to follow. So perhaps
:34:06. > :34:09.some of the young people here who don't want to work in the
:34:09. > :34:14.hospitality industry should adopt the attitudes. Some other countries
:34:14. > :34:18.in Europe the hospitality industry is seen as a career not just a job
:34:18. > :34:24.you do between other things. would like to see people here
:34:24. > :34:27.working legally to be the scapegoat of some authorities don't impose
:34:27. > :34:31.the labour legislation. If some Brits don't want to take the kinds
:34:31. > :34:36.of jobs that are available that are contributing to the development of
:34:36. > :34:41.your economy. Let's talk about this, is it a cultural issue then, are
:34:41. > :34:46.you saying? What are people's fears? Is it about unemployment? Or
:34:46. > :34:51.is it about changing communities? There are two things. One is that
:34:51. > :34:55.people, quite rightly are concerned that our public services, hospitals,
:34:55. > :34:59.our welfare system, housing, have come under pressure and have been
:34:59. > :35:03.abused. It's only right that this Government actually puts checks and
:35:03. > :35:07.balances in place so we have rigour in the system in the same way we've
:35:07. > :35:11.closed down 500 bogus colleges. If the British public, we have to
:35:11. > :35:13.carry their goodwill. If we are to have harmonious society you have to
:35:13. > :35:16.make sure people understand the Government is being fair about
:35:16. > :35:26.these things. That's one part of it. The other part is corporate. Hold
:35:26. > :35:26.
:35:26. > :35:33.on a second. The corporate, look at tt pret Amman jer say they're
:35:33. > :35:36.recruiting more British -- a manger say they're recruiting more British
:35:36. > :35:41.people. The people who have been hurt most by this, I'm a Liverpool
:35:41. > :35:46.lad, you represent Ron da, it's blue collar workers. The amount of
:35:46. > :35:52.people in Liverpool now... It's blue collar non-workers. I don't
:35:53. > :35:57.mean people refusing to -- work, I mean people who can't get jobs.
:35:57. > :36:00.Brick layers, plumbers, electricians who can't get on site
:36:00. > :36:03.any more because they're under cut and now they're driving taxis.
:36:03. > :36:09.Briefly, what do you think about the tone of this debate generally
:36:09. > :36:13.in Brit at the moment? It is discriminatory because the level of
:36:13. > :36:19.Bulgarians is very low. Our compatriots are 0.1% of the
:36:19. > :36:23.workforce. There is major influx probably of immigrants from non-
:36:23. > :36:25.European Union countries and I hate to see my country at the centre of
:36:25. > :36:29.the debate. Thank you all very much indeed.
:36:29. > :36:34.In the quest to get the edge on social media to be distinct from
:36:34. > :36:38.the millions and millions of other tweeters and YouTubers. One elite
:36:38. > :36:41.group has the edge. It doesn't get more exciting than tweeting from
:36:41. > :36:46.outer space. Astronauts at the international Space Station are
:36:46. > :36:49.building a loyal and growing following. One man is taking it a
:36:49. > :36:59.lot further. Commander Chris Hadfield is a new galactic
:36:59. > :37:07.
:37:07. > :37:12.superstar. Stephen Smith tunes into Phone home? Just try stopping the
:37:12. > :37:15.volumable -- volume uebl commander of the Space Station. Is it
:37:15. > :37:20.challenging to brush your teeth in space without getting toothpaste up
:37:20. > :37:26.your nose? We may have the coolest wash cloths ever on the Space
:37:26. > :37:32.Station. I'm going to show you. Here's one of them. I will open up
:37:32. > :37:40.our tortilla. We will get the peanut butter on... Chris Hadfield
:37:40. > :37:47.is the Canadian after rove naught. -- astronaut. His chatty diary of
:37:47. > :37:52.life in space has won him over 700,000 followers on Twitter.
:37:52. > :38:02.Here's how to wring out a towel in zero gravity.
:38:02. > :38:05.
:38:05. > :38:09.Kris and his colleagues are admired and envyed by space watchers rooted
:38:09. > :38:12.to planet earth. It would be interesting to experience
:38:12. > :38:15.weightlessness. It would be beautiful to see the earth as a
:38:15. > :38:19.planet. That's a sight that not many people see for real. Do you
:38:19. > :38:28.mind if we use the Newsnight teleporter on you? No, I don't. As
:38:28. > :38:33.long as it doesn't hurt. # If you could see our nation from
:38:33. > :38:38.the international Space Station # Hadfield dueting from the
:38:38. > :38:44.international Space Station with one of the bare naked ladies, not
:38:44. > :38:47.even his fellow Canadian Justin Bieber has pulled that gig off.
:38:47. > :38:56.# 18,000mph... # Mr Chateau de Vincenes do you hear
:38:56. > :39:01.me? -- Mr Shaner do you hear me? This is space research vessel ISS
:39:01. > :39:05.in earth orbit. I hear you loud and clear. I hear you loud and clear.
:39:05. > :39:11.It's a pleasure to talk to you. He's hooked up with the most
:39:11. > :39:15.celebrated spaceman of them all, Captain Kirk himself. As an actor,
:39:15. > :39:20.the fear comes from something unexpected happening, like
:39:20. > :39:26.forgetting your words or an audience reaction that's unexpected.
:39:26. > :39:29.In my case, your face flushes and you get a sheen of sweat. In your
:39:29. > :39:35.case, you burn up. It's a little different.
:39:35. > :39:42.Yeah, in both cases you go down in flames.
:39:42. > :39:49.It's all a far cry from the earliest days of space flight. When
:39:49. > :39:56.intread ID voyagers were enigmatic, tas turn. Isn't it enough for man
:39:56. > :39:59.to conquer space without being all over cyberspace too? How nice to
:39:59. > :40:04.have a dominant Twitter follower who's a scientist. That's a very
:40:04. > :40:08.new thing. That's a very recent phenomenon. We have Brian Cox and
:40:08. > :40:12.Chris Hadfield to thank for that. It's reassuring that the
:40:12. > :40:15.twittersphere as it's called, I believe, is not dominated just by
:40:15. > :40:21.actors and celebrities. There's a lot of high profile scientists
:40:21. > :40:27.there as well. That's brilliant. Mars one will establish human
:40:27. > :40:30.settlement on Mars in 2023. If all this has given a taste for
:40:30. > :40:34.intergalactic planetary adventure, why not sign up for the ultimate
:40:34. > :40:41.thrill, a space shot to Mars. Announced today as an excitable
:40:42. > :40:48.press conference. There's just one catch... It will be a mission of
:40:48. > :40:52.permanent settlement, a one-way trip. This is necessary because the
:40:52. > :40:59.technology to send humans from Mars back to earth simply does not exist
:40:59. > :41:04.yet. Let's talk about space food. Vegetables are important for your
:41:04. > :41:09.health. So today I've chosen dried spinach. Those Mars explorers of
:41:09. > :41:12.the future could do a lot worse than emulate commander Chris
:41:12. > :41:19.Hadfield, the astronaut with the home making skills. The rocket
:41:19. > :41:22.salad man. Steve Smith there. Maggie Aderin Pocock joins me now.
:41:22. > :41:24.She's a space scientist at University College London who's
:41:24. > :41:26.also dedicated her career to proselytizing space exploration,
:41:26. > :41:34.particularly to school children, though she's not had the chance to
:41:34. > :41:37.go to space herself. Would you like the chance sto? Definitely. Miff
:41:37. > :41:41.whole career is built on the opportunity to get into space.
:41:41. > :41:45.you think it's about energising this generation to make them feel
:41:45. > :41:48.they could do such a thing? Yes, make it look possible. It is more
:41:48. > :41:53.and more possibility p. -- possible. The technology is there. It's the
:41:53. > :41:56.cost that's the challenge. Do you think we've had a generation that's
:41:56. > :41:59.been so-so, nothing much happening. Now with people like this on
:41:59. > :42:04.YouTube, it really brings home what kind of questions that kids would
:42:04. > :42:07.ask about space an the things that he does are actually very
:42:07. > :42:11.captivating. They are. I feature lots of school kids and tell them
:42:11. > :42:17.about space. I do a demonstration of going to the loo in space.
:42:18. > :42:21.Really? I won't do it here.Scary. I don't go into detail. But kids
:42:22. > :42:25.are a new generation who aren't aware of what space is like. We're
:42:25. > :42:30.talking about microgravity and all sorts of things. They're so wide
:42:30. > :42:33.eyed when we think of kids as very sophisticated. This is next
:42:33. > :42:36.generation. They're the generation to pay for all this coming. Mars
:42:36. > :42:40.one has the right idea there, definitely. I don't think it's
:42:40. > :42:44.going to be governments paying for. It it's going to be commercial.
:42:44. > :42:49.They have the right idea by publicising it, by getting people
:42:50. > :42:56.interested. Why do you think it is so important what's being done, do
:42:56. > :43:02.people realise the level of science being done at the ISS. I think
:43:02. > :43:06.space is a wonderful conduit to get kids excited about science. Space
:43:06. > :43:10.is in the future going to be ruling our lives. It does now to a certain
:43:10. > :43:13.extent. We don't realise it. people who are looking, the
:43:13. > :43:18.commander on YouTube, realise what the Space Station is doing in terms
:43:18. > :43:21.of the importance of its science? don't think many people realise the
:43:21. > :43:25.importance of the Space Station. Most people don't know why it's
:43:25. > :43:28.there. It's pretty, you get pictures beamed down. They don't
:43:28. > :43:36.know that it's doing detailed scientific work. The next thing is
:43:36. > :43:39.Mars one. Again, captivating people, captivating you. It's funny because
:43:39. > :43:44.Mars One came as a side swipe. I had the same idea about six years
:43:44. > :43:47.ago, that you had a Big Brother spaceship going to Mars and the two
:43:47. > :43:51.winners come back home but everybody else... This is a one-way
:43:51. > :43:54.ticket. Everybody else lives out the rest of their days on Mars. We
:43:54. > :43:58.have found water there. It has an atmosphere. You could live there.
:43:58. > :44:01.Would you go? Not now. I have a three-year-old daughter so I need
:44:01. > :44:05.to make sure she's into the university system before I think of
:44:05. > :44:09.that. Then I would retire to Mars, when I'm in my 70s and seen
:44:09. > :44:12.everything earth has to offer, most of it any way, then I would go to
:44:12. > :44:16.Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow Mars. Thank you very much. Tomorrow
:44:16. > :44:20.morning's front pages: The telegraph, hospital hostels for
:44:20. > :44:30.30,000 elderly patients. On the right side, medical student died
:44:30. > :44:31.
:44:31. > :44:36.after taking banned weight loss drugs. Scrap planned petrol duty
:44:36. > :44:41.increases. And attack on New York train, thwarted, a planned attack
:44:41. > :44:47.between Toronto and New York. The guardian - death penalty threat for
:44:47. > :44:52.Boston bombing suspect. And defence put at risk by EU poll. The
:44:52. > :44:57.Financial Times: Fed and EU clash over US bank move. Rebel Syrian
:44:57. > :45:00.general asked West to help wrest oil fields from Al-Qaeda groups.
:45:00. > :45:05.The Daily Mail, banned slimming drug kills medical students. A
:45:05. > :45:08.different story on the Express, it's official, wills and Kate's
:45:09. > :45:11.daughter will become Queen. That's all from us tonight. We
:45:11. > :45:16.leave you with pictures of the Gloucester meteor getting airborne
:45:16. > :45:22.for the last time with help from a Chinook, Britain's first
:45:22. > :45:29.operational jet plane developed in 1940 was being moved 1.5 miles to
:45:29. > :45:39.its new home at Gloucestershire airport. Choc as way. Good night.
:45:39. > :46:07.
:46:07. > :46:17.Good evening. I think Tuesday is going to bring some warm spring
:46:17. > :46:27.
:46:27. > :46:32.Northern Ireland. The Western Islands of Scotland are breezy here.
:46:32. > :46:36.To the East of Scotland, however, there will be sunshine. But in
:46:36. > :46:40.England, the cloud is a lot more broken up. More sunshine around. If
:46:40. > :46:45.you live across the south-east of England, East Anglia, too,
:46:45. > :46:52.temperatures could get up to 21 degrees. On the other hand, across
:46:52. > :46:56.Cornwall and Devon and especially across these coastal areas, low,
:46:56. > :47:03.grey skies and some of that sea mist and fog creeping inland, hanging
:47:03. > :47:08.around for much of the day in a few places. Across northern areas of the
:47:08. > :47:11.UK, variable amounts of cloud. To the south of the country, the