:00:12. > :00:18.$:/STARTFEED. Tonight extraordinary scenes in ordinary America.
:00:18. > :00:21.Jubilation as three women and a girl are released after years held
:00:21. > :00:24.captive in suburban Ohio. Rescued by a neighbour who thought he was
:00:24. > :00:28.hearing the screams of a domestic row. I saw this girl she's going
:00:28. > :00:33.nuts on the door, I'm like what's your problem, are you stuck, just
:00:33. > :00:35.open the door. She said she couldn't, he has it looked.
:00:35. > :00:39.speak to the family of one of the victims.
:00:39. > :00:42.In the last couple of hours Russia and America have called for an
:00:42. > :00:45.International Conference on Syria, could it be too late to stop a
:00:45. > :00:48.regional war. If Israel is now resorting to air
:00:48. > :00:52.strikes to stop Lebanon's Hezbollah getting advanced weapons, this
:00:52. > :00:56.won't be the last attack, and a wider conflict may already be under
:00:56. > :00:58.way. Former Chancellor, Lord Lawson
:00:58. > :01:07.mocks the Prime Minister's Europe strategy and says that Britain
:01:07. > :01:11.should leave the EU. The renegotiation is just a fibleaf
:01:11. > :01:14.I'm afraid. Will Number Ten be forced to come up with a new policy
:01:14. > :01:19.all over again. We speak to two Conservative MPs.
:01:19. > :01:22.Is high-speed rail the answer to the north-south divide, in
:01:22. > :01:26.Andalucia they have had it for years, but the money has stayed in
:01:26. > :01:36.Madrid. I want to find out if after 20 years of high-speed rail has any
:01:36. > :01:37.
:01:38. > :01:42.of this actually worked? Help me get out, I have been in
:01:42. > :01:48.here a long time, the dozen words that signalled the end of a decade-
:01:48. > :01:51.long ordeal, three women held hostage in an Ohio basement. Amanda
:01:51. > :01:53.Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michele Knight disappeared from the same
:01:53. > :01:57.Cleveland neighbourhood some ten years ago. They were found all
:01:57. > :02:01.together just a couple of miles from where they had gone missing.
:02:01. > :02:05.Two had been at the centre of a major police search, the third had
:02:05. > :02:08.virtually fallen off the radar. Tonight praise for the women's
:02:08. > :02:12.bravery as authorities admit they didn't have a clue. Questions into
:02:13. > :02:18.how police failed to misthe alarms that neighbours had -- miss the
:02:18. > :02:22.alarms that neighbours had raised up to two years earlier. We will
:02:22. > :02:26.hear from a relative of Amanda Berry who is critical of the police
:02:26. > :02:30.search for her family member. It was a prison for a decade,
:02:30. > :02:35.nobody knew. Neighbours barbecued with the owner, there were no
:02:35. > :02:38.complaints to police. But inside this house three women were kept
:02:38. > :02:42.captive since disappearing from Cleveland streets around ten years
:02:42. > :02:47.ago. Amanda Berry was 16 when she went missing on her way back from
:02:47. > :02:51.work in April 2003. Her ordeal ended yesterday when she seized a
:02:51. > :02:57.chance to escape. In hospital she was reunited with her family. With
:02:57. > :03:01.her a six-year-old girl found at the house. Amanda Berry's daughter.
:03:01. > :03:06.The real hero here is Amanda. I mean she is the real hero. She's
:03:06. > :03:10.the one that got this rolling. We're just following her lead,
:03:10. > :03:15.without her none of us would be here today. After a neighbour heard
:03:15. > :03:19.her cry for help, Amanda Berry made a frantic phone call to police.
:03:19. > :03:24.Hello police, help me, I'm Amanda Berry. You need police, fire or
:03:24. > :03:27.ambulance. I need police. What's going on there? I have been
:03:27. > :03:33.kidnapped and I have been missing for ten years and I'm here, I'm
:03:33. > :03:38.free now. OK stay there with those neighbours. Can you help me, please.
:03:38. > :03:44.You need to come now. We will get there as soon as you get a car open.
:03:44. > :03:47.I need them now before he gets back. I heard her screaming, I'm eating a
:03:47. > :03:53.McDonalds, I come outside and I see this girl going nuts trying to get
:03:53. > :03:58.out of a house. I go on the porch. I go on the porch and she says
:03:58. > :04:01."help me get out, I have been here a long time". So I figured it was
:04:01. > :04:06.domestic violence dispute, I open the door and we can't get in that
:04:06. > :04:09.way because how the door is, it is so much that a body can't fit
:04:10. > :04:15.through it only a hand, so we kicked the bottom, and she comes
:04:15. > :04:19.out with the little girl and she says call 911, my name is Amanda
:04:20. > :04:23.Berry. Also discovered in the house was Gina DeJesus, she was 14 when
:04:23. > :04:30.she disappeared on her way home from school. Another woman, Michele
:04:30. > :04:34.Knight, was also found. All three were last seen on Lorain Avenue in
:04:34. > :04:42.Cleveland between 2003 and 12004. The house where they were held is
:04:42. > :04:46.across the city on Seymour avenue. It belongs to this man, Ariel
:04:46. > :04:49.Castro, a former school bus driver, police have arrested him and his
:04:49. > :04:53.two brothers. In this stunned neighbourhood everyone is asking
:04:53. > :04:57.the same question, how could they not know. The captive women were
:04:57. > :05:00.never seen. There was no noise, there were no clues. Although one
:05:00. > :05:05.neighbour had her concerns about the house. When I found out there
:05:05. > :05:08.was a little girl up there that I saw her, I questioned them, he
:05:08. > :05:11.shouldn't have a little girl because he doesn't have any women
:05:12. > :05:15.in there, how could there be a four or five-year-old in the house.
:05:15. > :05:19.There are serious questions for the police to, why didn't they join the
:05:19. > :05:24.dots between these disappearances. They actually visited the address
:05:24. > :05:29.twice. Once in 2000 because of a fight in the street, and again in
:05:29. > :05:32.204 after Ariel Castro left a child una-- 204 after Ariel Castro left a
:05:32. > :05:37.child unattended on a bus he was driving. Police knocked on the door
:05:37. > :05:41.but nobody answered. For now there are no ce cim nations, only relief
:05:41. > :05:44.-- recriminations, only relief. These three young ladies have
:05:44. > :05:50.provided us with the ultimate definition of survival and
:05:50. > :05:53.perseverance. The healing can now begin. The three women have now
:05:53. > :06:00.been released from hospital. Reunited with families who doubted
:06:00. > :06:03.they would ever see them again. I spoke a little earlier to Tina
:06:03. > :06:07.Miller, the cousin of Amanda Berry, one of the three women rescued
:06:07. > :06:13.yesterday. I asked her how the family learned Amanda had been
:06:13. > :06:19.freed? I was actually at my son's yesterday. My sister called me on
:06:19. > :06:24.the phone and someone actually had called her and told her that Amanda
:06:24. > :06:28.of alive. This is what news my sister passed on to me. Of course
:06:28. > :06:35.can you imagine, you don't think that you are going to hear these
:06:35. > :06:39.words after ten years of not seeing her. So it was very surreal for me.
:06:39. > :06:44.I mean you can imagine all the emotions, is it real, can it be
:06:44. > :06:50.true, all the things that we have gone through. You know, what we
:06:50. > :06:57.have heard. People saying they know her where abouts. Digginging for
:06:57. > :07:00.her, so as you can -- digging for her, as you can imagine it was
:07:00. > :07:04.quite overwhelming. Your hopes had been face raised before? Absolutely,
:07:04. > :07:10.she was my cousin, her mother and my mother are sisters. You know I
:07:10. > :07:16.have seen what it did to my aunt. It just destroyed her. To think
:07:16. > :07:22.that she was in our own home town and in Cleveland, that is just
:07:22. > :07:29.something that I can't even grasp still to this day. Amanda
:07:29. > :07:34.disappeared ten years ago or me, did you think she was still alive?
:07:34. > :07:40.As the years went on it was ...it was a little difficult because you
:07:40. > :07:45.know, you kind of start to lose hope. You hear all these stories
:07:45. > :07:49.with these girls being taken and human trafficking and you know,
:07:49. > :07:55.will you ever see her again, you know. You just run through your
:07:55. > :08:02.mind that you know the things I still hear her voice and you know,
:08:02. > :08:07.I remember how she you know brushed her hair and how she looked and you
:08:08. > :08:12.know. It is just, no, it was very hard for me at the end. When we had
:08:12. > :08:16.her ten-year vigil it was very hard. How does that feel to know she was
:08:16. > :08:21.only a few miles from the places the searches must have been going
:08:21. > :08:27.on? It is incredible. How do you think that would feel? You have
:08:27. > :08:31.them digging for her, you know, just a block or two from where she
:08:31. > :08:35.actually was in captivity. That is incredible. You need to get to know
:08:35. > :08:40.your where abouts, because somebody can sit with you, as I'm here right
:08:40. > :08:44.now and you don't know what I have going on inside my house. It does
:08:44. > :08:48.seem incredible, as you say, that the guy who discovered her, or who
:08:48. > :08:53.she made contact with talked about the neighbour, and sharing ribs and
:08:53. > :08:58.barbecues without ever suspecting him, right? You don't know who your
:08:58. > :09:01.neighbours are. You need to find out what is going on. There is
:09:01. > :09:05.being nosey and there is being cautious. You just want to know
:09:05. > :09:08.where you are at. Has it taught you anything more about the police
:09:08. > :09:13.search, because we know that the police went to the house, they were
:09:13. > :09:16.called there a couple of years ago, and they went away when nobody
:09:16. > :09:24.answered the door? For myself I think that the police could have
:09:24. > :09:28.done a little bit more when she first came up missing. She was
:09:28. > :09:32.classified as a runaway, that is not in her character. I don't care
:09:32. > :09:37.how old you are, if you are 25, if you are missing you are missing.
:09:37. > :09:46.What do you want to come out of this? You and your family have been
:09:46. > :09:51.through something that is almost inconceivable for most people?
:09:51. > :09:56.want for human trafficking to stop. These are girls, they are not money.
:09:56. > :10:01.You don't make money off of people. We are not slaves, no-one should
:10:01. > :10:06.own us, we are free, that is why good gives us that. We are not
:10:06. > :10:15.meant to be sold into slavery. Held against our will into captivity. We
:10:15. > :10:19.just need to get more laws passed. Thank you very much. Matt Zone is a
:10:19. > :10:24.Cleveland City Councillor who has known a family of the other rescued
:10:24. > :10:29.women, Gina DeJesus, since she went missing in 2004. He spent time with
:10:29. > :10:33.the family this evening. Thank you very much, tell us how the family
:10:33. > :10:37.are? The family is in a little shock right now. I was not able to
:10:37. > :10:41.talk to Gina's mother and father, Nancy and Felix, they are with Gina
:10:41. > :10:46.right now. But I did speak with her aunt who saw Gina and was able to
:10:46. > :10:50.be with her as well as some cousins. They are a little overwhelmed.
:10:50. > :10:57.There is a whole range of emotions that are going on as you can just
:10:57. > :11:02.imagine. Gina is out of hospital, is she physically well? She is out
:11:02. > :11:06.of the hospital, physically she's well. But there is ten years that
:11:06. > :11:12.have gone by and you know we just, there is concern from the family as
:11:12. > :11:15.well as people in the community how Gina's going to do, not only in the
:11:15. > :11:20.next 30-days, but how is she going to be a year from now, two years
:11:20. > :11:23.from now, five years from now. know Gina's family, but you also
:11:23. > :11:29.know the suspect's family as well, they are pretty known around the
:11:29. > :11:34.neighbourhood, right? I do. The Castro family is a prominent family
:11:34. > :11:40.in the Hispanic community. The City of Cleveland's about a population
:11:41. > :11:47.of 400,000 and roughly 10% are Hispanic. The patriarch of the
:11:47. > :11:52.family, Cese Castro is well known and respected businessman in our
:11:52. > :11:57.community. His brother Holio owns a hardware store around the corner
:11:57. > :12:02.from where they found the suspects. It is shocking to think that this
:12:02. > :12:09.could happen. I know there is embarrassment right now for the
:12:09. > :12:13.Castro family with the thought that the suspect is actually a relative.
:12:13. > :12:17.The question is how did nobody know, I mean as you say, a well known
:12:17. > :12:22.family and a street where it looked as if everyone talked to each other,
:12:22. > :12:28.sat out on their porches, passed each other by, how do you think
:12:28. > :12:33.this was missed? In this part of our city, I mean Seymour Avenue
:12:33. > :12:39.where they found the girls, it is more of a transient street. There
:12:39. > :12:42.is not a whole lot of owner- occupiers, mostly rentals. There is
:12:42. > :12:46.foreclosed unit as well as several condemned and boarded up houses on
:12:46. > :12:49.the street. I think what is happening over time is when you
:12:49. > :12:53.have more stable streets people start to know who their neighbours
:12:53. > :12:58.are and look out for them. That might be why that kind of flew
:12:58. > :13:02.underneath the radar screen. Tina, as you may have heard, was quite
:13:02. > :13:06.critical of the police search when she talked to me earlier, they said
:13:06. > :13:09.they had treated her as a missing person who had just gone off rather
:13:09. > :13:12.than someone who had disappeared. Do you think the police have
:13:12. > :13:18.serious questions to ask themselves about how this investigation was
:13:18. > :13:22.conducted? I think the community in general has serious questions to
:13:22. > :13:27.answer. Not only do the police, but the greater community. As well as
:13:27. > :13:31.the families of these individuals, and the family of the suspect. We
:13:31. > :13:35.all have to be accountable at the end of the day. It is easy right
:13:35. > :13:41.now to point fingers, but we have to let the investigation unfold,
:13:42. > :13:45.see how this thing plays out. At the end of the day we will get the
:13:45. > :13:48.facts and we will get to the bottom of this. Where does the police
:13:48. > :13:52.investigation go, they were called to the house a couple of years ago,
:13:52. > :13:58.but walked away when nobody answered the door, right? I will
:13:58. > :14:02.tell you in defence of our police department they really have
:14:02. > :14:06.exhausted all efforts to find these young women. Every time a lead came
:14:06. > :14:13.in they followed up on it. I have discussed this with our safety
:14:13. > :14:17.director as well as our police chief. Just recently as last year
:14:17. > :14:20.the City of Cleveland spent to close to several hundred thousand
:14:20. > :14:23.dollars based on a tip they received from somebody that the
:14:23. > :14:28.girls might have been buried in a field just several blocks from
:14:28. > :14:34.where they found them. And they spent all night, 48 continuous
:14:34. > :14:38.hours combing that area. It was based on a tip. So I'm not ready to
:14:38. > :14:42.say that the police didn't do all that they should. Sure, and just
:14:42. > :14:50.take us through what their strategy is now, what are they currently
:14:50. > :14:53.working at? Sure, we are working very closely with multiple law
:14:53. > :14:56.enforcement agencies. The Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI,
:14:56. > :15:01.is kind of handling the lead for the investigations right now. All
:15:01. > :15:04.of the interviewing process is being done through the FBI. The US
:15:04. > :15:09.marshall service is involved, as well as our police department, and
:15:09. > :15:14.our county Sheriff's department, all working in Unison with one
:15:14. > :15:17.another to try to -- unison with one another to try to build a
:15:17. > :15:21.timeline from the time the ladies went missing until he had why.
:15:21. > :15:31.Piecing together all the interviews and creating a timeline for how
:15:31. > :15:32.
:15:32. > :15:37.things sequentialally have happened. Later this evening Russia and the
:15:37. > :15:41.United States have pledged to try to push both sides of the Syrian
:15:41. > :15:44.conflict to forge political transition. They want to build on
:15:44. > :15:48.plan set out last year. Senator John Kerry says it shouldn't be a
:15:48. > :15:53.piece of paper, but it comes as tension in the regions run high.
:15:53. > :15:57.Two attacks by Israel on Syrian targets raise the prospect of its
:15:57. > :16:01.deep involvement. Syria's President said his country could confront
:16:01. > :16:06.Israeli aggression. What to make of it? Well this
:16:06. > :16:10.process that has been announced tonight in Moscow, talks between
:16:10. > :16:15.the Russian Foreign Minister and John Kerry the US Secretary of
:16:15. > :16:18.State does appear to offer some thin sliver of hope. It could be
:16:18. > :16:21.that it is due to the worsening of the situation that they have been
:16:21. > :16:24.spurred into trying to do something. The White House has said, following
:16:24. > :16:30.on from the announcement that its consideration of arming the Syrian
:16:30. > :16:34.opposition is now being put on hold. Until they see whether this can get
:16:34. > :16:39.somewhere. This was John Kerry earlier this evening. We have
:16:39. > :16:46.agreed to use our good offices, both of us, to bring both sides to
:16:46. > :16:51.the table working with our other core coalition partners and other
:16:51. > :16:57.allies and interested party to bring both sides to the table in
:16:57. > :17:02.partnership with the concern of foreign countries, that a committed
:17:02. > :17:04.themselves to helping the Syrians to find a prompt and political
:17:05. > :17:09.solution within the Geneva framework. John Kerry said he
:17:09. > :17:11.doesn't want it to be a piece of paper, but can the two sides
:17:11. > :17:15.realistically come around the table together at this point? This has
:17:15. > :17:19.been the critical question when talks were held last year in Geneva.
:17:19. > :17:23.It became pretty clear that the two sides of the Al-Assad Government
:17:23. > :17:27.and the opposition just didn't have the will to do this. There were
:17:27. > :17:31.preconditions talked about on both sides and they weren't prepared to
:17:31. > :17:35.close the gap. The Russian Foreign Minister, I many you may say
:17:35. > :17:38.putting a Russian spin on this evening, he claimed he had spoken
:17:38. > :17:40.to the Syrian Government, they were prepared to come. They were
:17:40. > :17:44.prepared to talk without conditions. And he implied that they were
:17:44. > :17:49.willing to do it, but there was a question about whether the
:17:49. > :17:53.opposition would. They have often said the ouster of the Al-Assad
:17:53. > :17:58.Government is a precondition for talks. It is a difficult situation.
:17:58. > :18:02.They are unlikely to bridge the gap, all the other indicators in the
:18:02. > :18:05.region of increasing ethnic violence for example in one of the
:18:05. > :18:08.Alawite areas close to the coast, in attacks over the weekend,
:18:08. > :18:12.indicate a further rising of tension regionally. President Assad
:18:12. > :18:15.himself has been on television this evening, responding to the Israeli
:18:15. > :18:19.air strikes saying it is part of this broad conspiracy by regional
:18:19. > :18:29.powers, the west and Israel, he said it was just another face of
:18:29. > :18:34.
:18:34. > :18:44.the terrorism the country is up against today. Allah hu Akbar.
:18:44. > :18:48.Allah hu Akbar. So now Israel is being drawn into Syria's strive in
:18:48. > :18:52.a highly visible fashion. A series of air strikes starting on Friday
:18:52. > :19:02.has brought the two countries to the brink of war and spread alarm
:19:02. > :19:06.
:19:06. > :19:09.in the region. TRANSLATION: Israeli air strike on Damascus is
:19:09. > :19:13.completely unacceptable, there is no excuse or pretext that can
:19:13. > :19:20.justify this operation. These raids are nothing but opportunities,
:19:20. > :19:24.trump cards present today Al-Assad on a golden plate. Israel gambled
:19:24. > :19:28.that its bombing, which it still hasn't officially owned up to
:19:28. > :19:33.wouldn't trigger an all-out war. But it took precautions against one
:19:33. > :19:37.happening, calling up a reserve armoured division to reinforce the
:19:37. > :19:41.border and stationing batteries of its Iron Dome missile defence
:19:41. > :19:46.system near northern cities. The fear was that retaliation might
:19:46. > :19:50.come in the form of hundreds rockets from Hezbollah, the
:19:50. > :19:56.Lebanese militant Shi'ite movement, closely allied to Syria and Iran.
:19:56. > :20:01.Israel's strategy is now focused on thwarting that alliance. In Israel
:20:01. > :20:06.the set of priorities, Iran, Syria and what happened in Egypt in the
:20:06. > :20:11.Sinai are the top three priorities right now in the region. The
:20:11. > :20:15.combination of these weapons handing into the hands of Iranian
:20:15. > :20:20.allies is up there with their priority, there is a real fear in
:20:20. > :20:26.Israel that these weapons will be used. Either immediately or in the
:20:26. > :20:30.very near future either from the Golan Heights or Lebanon. Or in
:20:30. > :20:35.future conflicts between Israel and Hezbollah. They take it very
:20:35. > :20:38.seriously. Israel's targets reportedly over a weapons convoy
:20:38. > :20:43.with sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles in January. And again near
:20:43. > :20:48.the Lebanese border four days ago, seemed to confirm an agenda of
:20:48. > :20:54.trying to prevent transfers of advanced weapons to Hezbollah. The
:20:54. > :20:57.recent strikes were apparently aimed at missiles called Fateh 110s,
:20:58. > :21:03.being transfered from Iran to the Lebanese militant movement via
:21:03. > :21:07.Syria. These would put much of northern Israel in range. The
:21:07. > :21:13.Israelis have also struck the Jamraya research facility twice,
:21:13. > :21:19.both in January and the last few days. It is claimed to be a
:21:19. > :21:22.chemical weapons storage point. Syria has promised unspecified
:21:23. > :21:27.retaliation if Israel attacks again. But Palestinian groups there say
:21:27. > :21:31.they have been given the OK to attack Israel across the Golan
:21:31. > :21:38.Heights frontier. Meanwhile Iran has been trying to beef up
:21:38. > :21:43.Hezbollah's Arsenal as a means of deterring an Israeli attack on its
:21:43. > :21:47.nuclear facilities. Putting Fateh missiles in southern Lebanon gives
:21:47. > :21:51.Iran potentially a powerful retaliatory option against Israel.
:21:51. > :21:57.The question now is whether Israel's action will cause Iran or
:21:57. > :22:01.Syria, far from stopping, to accelerate their weapons deliveries
:22:01. > :22:05.to Hezbollah, leading all sides into further escalation. If there
:22:05. > :22:11.is a broader confrontation with Iran that country has responded to
:22:11. > :22:17.the weekend's air strikes defiantly. TRANSLATION: Israel would not dare
:22:18. > :22:21.to attack Iran, you can be sure of that. However, we are ready for any
:22:21. > :22:26.course case scenarios, but at the same time we are sure that Israel
:22:26. > :22:31.would not undertake such an operation. After these raids, the
:22:31. > :22:35.stakes in Syria have been raised once again. But if Israel is
:22:35. > :22:42.serious about stopping future transfer of weapons to Hezbollah,
:22:42. > :22:46.they may have to strike again soon, with all the risks that entails.
:22:46. > :22:51.Those fighting against President Assad's forces have now received
:22:51. > :22:55.unwanted backing from Israel. The Syrian conflict has changed again
:22:55. > :22:58.if for no other reason than the powerlessness of the military there
:22:58. > :23:08.to protect their most sensitive installations from Israeli attack
:23:08. > :23:09.
:23:09. > :23:14.has been exposed. I'm joined by an Iranian writer and journalist, and
:23:14. > :23:17.Dore Gold, a former Israeli UN ambassador, who also advised
:23:17. > :23:20.Benjamin Netanyahu on foreign policy. Thank you very much for
:23:20. > :23:24.joining me. Dore Gold, do you think this conference we have heard about
:23:24. > :23:34.late this evening will happen and will it achieve what they want it
:23:34. > :23:34.
:23:34. > :23:38.to? From the Israeli perfective -- perspective it is essential that
:23:38. > :23:45.the constant supply of weaponry to Hezbollah is stopped. Especially
:23:45. > :23:50.the heavy weaponry, the rockets, like The Fat Duck 1-10, and the
:23:50. > :23:55.counter aircraft weaponry that has been flowing in. People forget this
:23:55. > :24:00.fundamental fact, but after the 2006 second Lebanon war, the United
:24:01. > :24:05.Nations Security Council adopted a resolution 1701 that stated flatly
:24:05. > :24:12.that all countries are prohibited from supplying weaponry to Lebanese
:24:12. > :24:16.militias. So just even the supply of a simple sub-machine-gun would
:24:16. > :24:20.be prohibited, but the supply of heavy dangerous weaponry that
:24:20. > :24:23.changes the strategic balance, that is something Israel cannot tolerate
:24:23. > :24:28.and will not allow its cities to be put at risk. It sounds from the way
:24:28. > :24:34.you are talking as if it is too late for diplomacy, is that bluntly
:24:34. > :24:39.how you feel? Well diplomacy started in 2006 with a clear UN
:24:39. > :24:44.security resolution, supported by the United States, UK, Britain,
:24:44. > :24:48.France, Russia, saying that there would be no supply of weaponry to
:24:48. > :24:51.Lebanese militias like Hezbollah. That obviously has been violated
:24:51. > :24:58.massively by Iran, with the assistance of Syria, and that has
:24:58. > :25:06.to come to a halt. Otherwise what Israel will simply not tolerate is
:25:06. > :25:09.a situation whereby let's say new supersonic anti-ship missiles are
:25:09. > :25:14.given to Hezbollah which can be used to threaten the freedom of
:25:14. > :25:19.navigation of Israeli shipping and even put our new gas fields at risk.
:25:19. > :25:24.Interesting that when I raised this issue of the conference you know
:25:24. > :25:28.you hear from Israel who are not even at the table in terms of the
:25:28. > :25:34.Syrian talks, it is all about weaponry. Is it totally unrealistic
:25:34. > :25:38.to think that anything will come out of talks now? Well from the
:25:38. > :25:42.Iranian perspective and looking at the role Iran has played in it, the
:25:42. > :25:47.advice Iran has been giving to Bashar al-Assad all along is
:25:47. > :25:53.compromising projects an image of weak he is in. Iran has envoked the
:25:53. > :25:56.experiences of dictators like Ben Ali in Tunisia and Mubarak in Egypt,
:25:56. > :26:02.they compromised and invited their own demise. That advice they have
:26:02. > :26:05.been giving all along is to stand firm. I think for leaders like in
:26:06. > :26:12.Iran and Bashar al-Assad in Syria, victory looks very different than
:26:12. > :26:16.what we may conceive of in the west. For them they have the long-term in
:26:16. > :26:20.mind, to suffer great costs but to stay in power, despite all of that.
:26:20. > :26:24.So Iran loves showing its people Syria in chaos then? It is very
:26:24. > :26:30.expedient for Iran. Because it holds up a model that a model of
:26:30. > :26:37.what will happen if you seek change. A bloody conflict in which 70,000
:26:37. > :26:40.people have already died. This invites caution inevitably amongst
:26:40. > :26:45.the Irani people who have had a war and revolution in the recent
:26:45. > :26:50.memories of most families. That is the convenient by-product of this
:26:50. > :26:59.for the Iranian regime. Of the calculation that Assad would not
:26:59. > :27:04.respond to the Israeli strikes then? I think President Assad
:27:04. > :27:10.understands that Israel's complaint and constant protest about Syrian
:27:10. > :27:14.behaviour relates to the supply of weaponry to Hezbollah. Israel is
:27:14. > :27:22.not involving itself in the questions of the internal questions
:27:22. > :27:27.of the Syrian Civil War. You heard the response as was portrayed as
:27:27. > :27:31.the Iranian one, that the dictator has been seen to be standing strong.
:27:31. > :27:36.Assad himself this evening said we have the capability of fighting
:27:37. > :27:41.back? Well, but also Syria and the Arab states in general always say
:27:41. > :27:45.they respect the terms of international legitimacy. Here you
:27:45. > :27:51.have UN Security Council resolutions that have said in the
:27:51. > :27:55.clearest of language that Lebanese militias cannot be rearmed, let
:27:55. > :27:59.alone rearmed by these extremely destablising weapons, like the
:27:59. > :28:03.heavy rockets that can hit and do enormous damage to Israeli cities.
:28:03. > :28:08.We are not talking about the cartouches that have been used by
:28:08. > :28:13.ham nas in the Gaza strip, we are talk -- Hamas in the Gaza strip, we
:28:13. > :28:17.are talking about rockets 30-times more powerful. The motivation could
:28:17. > :28:25.be to get these long range missiles into Hezbollah's hands very close
:28:26. > :28:29.to the board we are Israel. Does that sound likely? I think it is
:28:29. > :28:36.plausible at contingency planning Iran might try to move that kind of
:28:36. > :28:40.weaponry to southern Lebanon. attack or defend? To have in place
:28:40. > :28:44.as a deterrent against any potential Israeli strike on Iran's
:28:44. > :28:49.facilities. Despite all the talk about weaponry, I think the reality
:28:49. > :28:53.is all sides of this conflict have a lot to gain by things not
:28:53. > :28:56.escalating further. Could Syria be the proxy war ground, if you like,
:28:56. > :29:00.for conflict between Israel and Iran? I think that's exactly what's
:29:00. > :29:04.happening. We are seeing the Afghanisation of Syria, in which it
:29:04. > :29:10.has become a theatre for proxy strategic warfare between Iran and
:29:10. > :29:15.Israel, on the one hand, Russia is involved. Saudi Arabia and Qatar
:29:15. > :29:18.are arming Sunni militants affiliated with Al-Qaeda. Iran is
:29:18. > :29:23.backing Hezbollah and the Alawites, we are seeing that kind of staging
:29:23. > :29:30.ground. Thank you very much indeed. Nigel Lawson said it, many in his
:29:30. > :29:33.party already think it, the UK would be better off outside the EU
:29:33. > :29:36.Tomorrow is David Cameron's first chance to show if and how Ukip's
:29:36. > :29:41.success in the local elections last week will affect the tone of his
:29:41. > :29:44.policy making going forward. Has the Queen's Speech been hastily
:29:44. > :29:48.rewritten this bank holiday weekend, or is the coalition confident
:29:48. > :29:53.enough to hang on to what it has trailed before. Take us through,
:29:53. > :29:57.first of all, Lord Lawson's comments, why are they so
:29:57. > :30:03.potentially damaging? What Lord Lawson has done is taken David
:30:03. > :30:08.Cameron's sensitively scheduled Europe strategy, because it had a
:30:08. > :30:10.series, a sequence of events, and has fast-forwarded it to the most
:30:10. > :30:13.difficult and troublesome bit. David Cameron said he wanted to
:30:13. > :30:17.renegotiate and he will come back and be triumphant, and say these
:30:17. > :30:21.are the bits I have renegotiated for you, now you can have a vote.
:30:21. > :30:26.What Lord Lawson has said is that most difficult bit will be
:30:26. > :30:34.meaningless. Here he can talking to my colleague Nick Robinson earlier.
:30:34. > :30:38.Also they are afraid too, and I have a lot of friend in the
:30:38. > :30:42.eurocracy, they all have this view too. They don't believe there is
:30:42. > :30:45.anything, because they are frightened if they give anything to
:30:45. > :30:52.us other countries will say they want this and that and the whole
:30:52. > :30:55.thing will begin to unravel. The renegotiation is just a figleaf,
:30:55. > :31:01.I'm afraid. The choice now whether David Cameron responds to that sort
:31:01. > :31:06.of language and indeed the results for Ukip last year? I mean figleaf
:31:06. > :31:10.is pretty painful, and "inconsequential", painful words
:31:10. > :31:14.when it took so long for the Prime Minister to figure out exactly what
:31:14. > :31:18.he wanted to say. The problem for Conservatives, looking at Lord
:31:18. > :31:23.Lawson, he's incredibly respected, in and out of Ten Downing Street,
:31:23. > :31:27.this isn't a person from eras past. The problem is they have to take
:31:27. > :31:30.him seriously, but also he's speaking to the group out there
:31:30. > :31:32.that thinks because the Prime Minister won't say what he wants to
:31:32. > :31:36.renegotiate. He won't say that because he doesn't want that
:31:36. > :31:40.shopping list for you and I to say you didn't get X therefore you have
:31:40. > :31:43.failed. He won't do that. He is in a weaker position. But he has to
:31:43. > :31:48.set out that kind of thing, they think, ahead of the next election,
:31:48. > :31:51.otherwise the fear is that we end up with the same sort of stories,
:31:51. > :31:56.Lord Lawson today and other people in the future, who pop out of the
:31:56. > :32:00.wood work, say these things and the agenda is dominated by it. The
:32:00. > :32:03.problem with the Thursday by- election, but also the elections,
:32:03. > :32:06.is this sense of trust. People voted Ukip because of Europe,
:32:06. > :32:10.immigration and a lot of things, but also possibly because at the
:32:10. > :32:14.heart of it they felt that a lot of politicians don't actually honour
:32:15. > :32:17.their words. That is what a lot of people I have spoken to today said.
:32:18. > :32:22.The question of the referendum feeds into that. That if you
:32:22. > :32:25.haven't done something that you said you would do ages ago and you
:32:25. > :32:34.have this policy that is for tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow
:32:34. > :32:39.then you are on weak ground. With me is Conservative MP Margot
:32:39. > :32:45.James, and her colleague, Douglas Carswell, who has called for a Tory
:32:45. > :32:47.counter-insurgency against Ukip. Margot James, Lord Lawson has
:32:47. > :32:51.totally undermined the Prime Minister's Europe strategy with
:32:51. > :32:56.that? Certainly it was a bit of a bombshell, I would agree. But I
:32:56. > :33:03.read the article, and I found it wanting in several major respects.
:33:03. > :33:08.I thought the way he dismissed the Prime Minister's strategy of
:33:08. > :33:12.negotiating reformed Europe was really flawed. I mean he likened it
:33:12. > :33:16.to 1975 and Harold Wilson's renegotiation. It was more than
:33:16. > :33:19.that, he said he has spoken to people within the eurozone who have
:33:19. > :33:23.made it utterly clear that they won't shift any ground. That is a
:33:23. > :33:26.big full stop isn't it? That's possibly a negotiating strategy. I
:33:26. > :33:29.don't suppose he has spoken to everyone who is going to be
:33:29. > :33:32.involved in making these decisions. I think he's overlooking the fact
:33:32. > :33:36.that we are already making progress. This isn't going to be one set of
:33:36. > :33:40.negotiations on a specific date at some point in the future. It is on
:33:40. > :33:43.going business, and we are making progress. Douglas Carswell, there
:33:43. > :33:50.will be some saying it is your fault, those on the right who
:33:50. > :33:55.pushed him to promise this referendum which now has not gone
:33:55. > :33:58.far enough? I think Nigel Lawson's intervention sin credibly
:33:59. > :34:01.significant, he understands economics, one of the most
:34:01. > :34:08.successful Chancellors we have produced, and someone who advocated
:34:08. > :34:11.to joining the ERM, the precursor to the euro now saying we should
:34:11. > :34:16.get out. I think this strengthening the argument for what David Cameron
:34:16. > :34:20.announced in January, which is to make sure that we have an in-out
:34:20. > :34:25.referendum. Of course if Lord Lawson hadn't said it now, three
:34:25. > :34:29.years too early? People say that the problem is that he's undermined
:34:29. > :34:34.the idea that we can renegotiate. The beauty of an in-out referendum
:34:34. > :34:36.is that Brussels is not just going to have to negotiate with the
:34:36. > :34:40.Whitehall mandarins or David Cameron, they are negotiating with
:34:40. > :34:43.the whole British people. And any deal that comes back is going to
:34:43. > :34:47.have to persuade the constituents that elected me, that it is
:34:47. > :34:50.worthwhile remaining insight. want that now, of course?
:34:50. > :34:54.Personally speaking I would love us to bring forward the legislation
:34:54. > :34:58.now for an in-out referendum. Before 2015? Absolutely. But part
:34:58. > :35:03.of me actually thinks, no, we need a couple of years actually to make
:35:03. > :35:06.the case for withdrawal. Is there any chance that could happen now?
:35:06. > :35:10.think it is very unlikely. It would be unlikely any way to get a bill
:35:10. > :35:15.through parliament. The numbers are stacked again that. I think that
:35:15. > :35:17.the Prime Minister has committed to the very earliest point that he can
:35:18. > :35:22.commit to knowing that parliamentary arithmetic. Which is
:35:22. > :35:25.if a Conservative Government is elected we will have an in-out
:35:25. > :35:27.referendum. He has become the Prime Minister who pushes things with a
:35:27. > :35:32.vague promise of something happening finally and the
:35:32. > :35:37.electorate is no longer trusting that? I don't think it was a vague
:35:37. > :35:41.promise, I think it was a cast iron commitment to a referendum if the
:35:41. > :35:45.Conservatives get elected at the 2015 election. Two years and too
:35:45. > :35:49.many ifs, and they remember Lisbon? There won't be any point in
:35:49. > :35:53.producing a referendum bill only set to failure. I wouldn't be
:35:53. > :35:57.totally surprised that in the Queen's Speech we see proposals for
:35:57. > :36:02.an in-out bill. What do you mean, do you know this is coming up?
:36:02. > :36:06.at all, but if I was in Number Ten and I wanted to address the issue
:36:06. > :36:08.of plausibilty I would be prepared to bring it through. Now if MPs
:36:08. > :36:13.then voted to prevent that bill going through, we could see the
:36:13. > :36:17.names of those MPs and the voters could make up their minds? What you
:36:17. > :36:20.are saying is Ukip calls the tune now? We are in a democracy and the
:36:20. > :36:24.voters want change. And the strategy then is for David Cameron
:36:24. > :36:28.to look at Ukip's success and say we need to do what they are telling
:36:28. > :36:32.us to do? Generally speaking in a democracy, when mainstream parties
:36:32. > :36:35.are losing touch with the voters, the idea is you should recognise it
:36:35. > :36:38.is not the fault of the voter, perhaps it is something that the
:36:38. > :36:43.two-and-a-half party system is failing to ifrdl. Our fundamental
:36:43. > :36:48.problem is...Is That right, you must start listeninging and follow
:36:48. > :36:51.the Ukip lead? We never stopped listening. To Ukip, what they are
:36:51. > :36:55.saying on Bulgaria and Romania at the end of the year? I don't think
:36:55. > :36:59.it is Ukip we are listening to, it is the license rate, the people in
:36:59. > :37:04.our constituencies, the people who contact us week in week out. Those
:37:04. > :37:07.are the people we are listening to. It is clearly not otherwise they
:37:07. > :37:10.wouldn't have left the Tories? commitment that the Prime Minister
:37:10. > :37:18.made to an in-out referendum was made long before these local
:37:18. > :37:21.election results. It was it was made more in response to the
:37:21. > :37:28.Conservative Party and the public than it was in response it a
:37:28. > :37:33.political party There was an important Maiduguri, as someone who
:37:33. > :37:38.wants the UK out of Europe and wants an in-out referendum, I don't
:37:38. > :37:42.think the key problem is policy s even if we delivered the policy
:37:42. > :37:46.want would solve the problem, I don't think so. The reason so many
:37:46. > :37:50.people vote Ukip is they don't like the two-and-a-half party system,
:37:50. > :37:54.there is a lack of authenticity, there is a feeling that all
:37:54. > :37:58.politicians are in it together. That we are perhaps a little bit
:37:58. > :38:05.smug, out-of-touch. Think we know that Ukip are the insurgents, we
:38:05. > :38:09.need a counter insurgency strategy. Does that mean risking losing the
:38:09. > :38:14.centre ground? What it means first and foremost is we stop doing
:38:14. > :38:20.politics as a Westminster party with a few local franchises. We
:38:20. > :38:23.actually open up the party strategy so people own it a grassroots
:38:23. > :38:28.strategy again. The Queen's Speech will also pave
:38:28. > :38:32.the way for part two of HS2, releasing funding for the early
:38:32. > :38:34.stages of the design of the high- speed rail link. Much has been made
:38:34. > :38:39.of its potential for allowing economic developments to reach
:38:39. > :38:45.parts of the country it doesn't normally reach. How much truth is
:38:45. > :38:50.there to. That we have been off to find out.
:38:50. > :38:54.There are many arguments made for high-speed rail, but the one the
:38:54. > :38:58.politicians routinely reach for is this one? We do need to rebalance
:38:58. > :39:02.the economy. It has been too dominated by the south and by
:39:02. > :39:09.certain industries and I think high-speed rail will really help to
:39:09. > :39:15.create a better balanced economy. It is their go-to argument whenever
:39:15. > :39:19.the �34 billion price tag for HS2 is questioned. I think it will help
:39:19. > :39:24.heal the north-south divide, which for so long as blighted the British
:39:24. > :39:27.economy. You can see why the politics of high-speed rail is
:39:27. > :39:31.attractive to the Government. And the economic case also seems to
:39:31. > :39:34.have a certain plausibilty about it. If you half the journey times to
:39:34. > :39:39.northern cities, well companies will be queuing up to relocate
:39:39. > :39:42.their business away from the south. But is there any actual evidence
:39:43. > :39:46.that this could or will happen? Is there any actual evidence that if
:39:46. > :39:54.there is an economic dividend to be had from high-speed rail, it will
:39:54. > :39:58.go to the north and not to the south. If we look at the evidence
:39:58. > :40:03.from economic analysis and expowerence elsewhere around the
:40:03. > :40:08.world, it is difficult to prove a link between building high-speed
:40:08. > :40:12.rail lines and closing regional inequalities or disparities. Very
:40:12. > :40:15.difficult indeed. In terms of there is evidence it seems to suggest
:40:15. > :40:22.that capital cities gain the most from the building of these new
:40:22. > :40:26.high-speed rail lines. There is no point me hanging around here
:40:26. > :40:32.waiting for the first high-speed train to Manchester or Leeds. They
:40:32. > :40:36.won't be departing until 20.33 at the very earliest. However high-
:40:36. > :40:39.speed rail is not a new idea. There are plenty of cities in the world
:40:39. > :40:48.that already have it, where the economic impacts are well
:40:48. > :40:55.documented. This can probably claim to be the world's first high-speed
:40:55. > :41:05.railway, the propeller-driven Zeppelin train that hit 145 miles
:41:05. > :41:08.an hour in Germany. Perhaps we need a more modern example? Here in
:41:08. > :41:12.Spain they have the future for 20 years lr. Back in 1992 the
:41:12. > :41:15.Government built a high-speed rail line between Madrid and Seville,
:41:15. > :41:20.the objective was clear, they wanted to spread the wealth, jobs
:41:20. > :41:23.and opportunity away from the rich capital in the north to the
:41:23. > :41:27.impoverished south. Reverse the geography and you have a very
:41:27. > :41:34.familiar argument. What I want to find out is after 20 years of
:41:34. > :41:37.having high-speed rail has any of this actually worked? I certainly
:41:37. > :41:41.didn't meet anyone in Spain who wanted to go back to the days
:41:41. > :41:48.before high-speed rail. Least of all the President of the Company
:41:48. > :41:52.that runs the trains. Most of the people were quite critical with
:41:52. > :41:56.first doping the line between Madrid and Seville rather than
:41:56. > :42:01.between Madrid and Barcelona or other more popular places. But it
:42:02. > :42:05.was really successful. Most of the people will come again by train
:42:05. > :42:12.transportation. There has been a lot of development in Seville and
:42:12. > :42:16.also in the surroundings of Madrid. So the balance of these first high-
:42:16. > :42:21.speed trains in 1992 was really successful. The Spanish experience
:42:21. > :42:29.is that the territory is very suitable for high-speed train. I
:42:29. > :42:34.think that this is a case for the United Kingdom too.
:42:35. > :42:39.The journey to Seville now takes two at a quarter hours, as opposed
:42:39. > :42:42.to seven hours by train and ten by car before advent of high-speed
:42:43. > :42:48.rail. That is undoubtedly a huge benefit to the people who already
:42:48. > :42:53.had to make the trip. But, say economist, the Andalucia region
:42:53. > :42:59.itself hasn't benefited nearly as much as you might expect.
:42:59. > :43:04.problem with Seville and the south of Spain is that there is a lack of
:43:04. > :43:09.other conditions like for example skills in people, attitudes,
:43:09. > :43:14.diversification of the economy. So the high-speed train contributes
:43:14. > :43:18.but a little. Nowadays to promote a region you need innovation, you
:43:18. > :43:23.need education, you need good attitudes from people. Those things
:43:23. > :43:28.in Seville and the south of Spain they are not promoted or developed.
:43:28. > :43:35.Have many companies relocated their operation from Madrid to Seville?
:43:35. > :43:45.don't think so. No. In Seville I have come to see a company that has
:43:45. > :43:45.
:43:45. > :43:49.relocated and loves high-speed rail. Altmann sources and tests the
:43:49. > :43:55.components that go into -- this company sources and tests the
:43:55. > :44:01.component that is go into sat right. They relocated in 1992 from Madrid
:44:01. > :44:06.to Seville. It has been a tremendous achievement in the sense
:44:07. > :44:11.of time. It takes between two and a quarter and two-and-a-half hours to
:44:11. > :44:16.get there are centre to centre. right next door to this high-tech
:44:16. > :44:20.lab there is another story to tell. This was the site of the 1992
:44:20. > :44:26.Seville expo. The high-speed rail line was part of the futuristic
:44:26. > :44:29.package. When the expo closed the local Government offered very
:44:29. > :44:33.generous incentives to companies like this to move in. It was this
:44:33. > :44:38.and the other supsidies that tempted them to relocate, not just
:44:38. > :44:43.the line. We moved mainly because for three reasons, the first one of
:44:43. > :44:49.the support of the local Government and the City Council. They were
:44:49. > :44:53.providing at that time to companies move. The second one of the
:44:53. > :44:58.existence of a very good technical university in Seville. It is a good
:44:58. > :45:02.source for a highly qualified and motivated professionals. Then the
:45:02. > :45:07.last one that would have been excluded was the existence of good
:45:07. > :45:17.connections with Madrid. Would you have moved without the availability
:45:17. > :45:18.
:45:18. > :45:23.of this building at a very good rate? Possibly not. This is not
:45:23. > :45:28.that far off what they had in Spain before high-speed rail. So the
:45:28. > :45:32.savings in journey times were huge, far higher than promised for the UK,
:45:32. > :45:36.which is already pretty well connected. That's why a Labour
:45:36. > :45:40.Government review concluded that such a scheme wasn't worth the cost.
:45:40. > :45:44.And if there are any benefits from reduced journey times for the UK,
:45:44. > :45:48.economyists say they are likely to go to firms in London.
:45:48. > :45:53.More productive firms in cities like London will be able to serve
:45:53. > :45:58.distant markets in northern cities, much more efficiently from the
:45:58. > :46:04.existing base rather than from bases located in the northern
:46:04. > :46:09.cities. So if the time to market is reduced between London and the
:46:09. > :46:13.northern cities, that is going to mainly benefit firms already based
:46:13. > :46:18.in London. That seems to be what happens in most of the case around
:46:18. > :46:21.the world where the railway lines are introduced. If you had a London
:46:21. > :46:24.and Manchester office, and high- speed rail comes along, you might
:46:24. > :46:32.be tempted to close the office because you can serve the
:46:32. > :46:38.Manchester market from London? run the office down over time.
:46:38. > :46:45."their lawns our jobs" that was the slogan of those opposing the scheme,
:46:45. > :46:48.nim bees standing in the way of regeneration in the north.
:46:48. > :46:53.finding any clear evidence that is what would happen has been
:46:53. > :47:03.difficult. Of course it would be amazing if building something like
:47:03. > :47:05.
:47:05. > :47:15.this, spending �34 billion on a new rail line didn't some -- create
:47:15. > :47:50.
:47:50. > :47:55.some jobs. But could the money be The * telegraph suggests that Sir
:47:55. > :47:59.Alex Fergsuoned my be about to to call time on his career at
:47:59. > :48:06.Manchester United. There will be more on that tomorrow. We learned
:48:06. > :48:16.today that the animator Ray Harrison has died aged 92. We leave
:48:16. > :48:43.
:48:43. > :48:47.Hello, after the UK's warmest day of the year so far, the weather is
:48:47. > :48:50.now in a mood to change. And Wednesday brings a band of rain
:48:50. > :48:53.spreading north, not going to northern Scotland until the evening
:48:53. > :48:56.and behind it will brighten up in Northern Ireland and England and
:48:56. > :48:59.Wales as we go through the afternoon. Bright spells but a much
:48:59. > :49:03.fresher feel in Northern Ireland with the stronger breeze. Some rain
:49:03. > :49:07.through the central belt at 4.00. The far north of Scotland with
:49:07. > :49:10.warmth but with a strengthening wind, the rain getting in during
:49:10. > :49:13.the evening. Across northern England behind the rain it will
:49:13. > :49:18.brighten up, we also see heavy showers breaking out, particularly
:49:18. > :49:23.through central and eastern parts of England through the mid-to-laid
:49:23. > :49:27.afternoon maybe with a rumble of thunder. Bright spells to breezy
:49:27. > :49:31.conditions, still warm high teens but not the 20s we saw today. The
:49:31. > :49:35.fresher feel into south England and Wales. Plenty of dry weather to end
:49:35. > :49:39.the day, maybe the odd passing shower in the brisk south-westerly
:49:39. > :49:44.wind. It stays fairly unsettled as we go through the re- of the week.
:49:44. > :49:48.For Wednesday most of us will see a -- the rest of the week, most of us
:49:48. > :49:52.will see rain coming through during Thursday and the difference on
:49:52. > :49:56.Thursday will be an even stronger wind. It looks as if southern