:00:18. > :00:21.pagentry aplenty, but are the couple at the heart of the
:00:21. > :00:23.coalition Government arguing over the kids?
:00:23. > :00:27.This programme has learned that This programme has learned that
:00:27. > :00:29.Nick Clegg may block reforms to childcare ratio, one of the
:00:29. > :00:32.flagship policies of the Queen's Speech.
:00:32. > :00:36.It was meant to be a done deal, but in the last hour the Deputy Prime
:00:36. > :00:38.Minister's office has confirmed to this programme that he may not sign
:00:38. > :00:44.it off. Also tonight as Manchester United
:00:44. > :00:48.says goodbye to the very best, we asks what makes a manager great.
:00:48. > :00:53.Most people at the top of business and sport are not the easiest
:00:53. > :00:58.people to get on with, because they are like that and used to battering
:00:59. > :01:03.doors out. We speak to Mark Hughes, his friends and the think-tank.
:01:03. > :01:07.We are on Pakistan's campaign trail. What you are seeing is a revolution.
:01:08. > :01:17.I am this is beyond, if you see the fashion, this is not normal
:01:18. > :01:18.
:01:18. > :01:23.politics. This is an uprising from the grassroots.
:01:23. > :01:27.Hello, good evening. To the public looking on it was a fairly
:01:27. > :01:29.faultless parade of unity, but tonight this programme has learned
:01:29. > :01:34.that the Deputy Prime Minister is he at odds with the Prime Minister
:01:34. > :01:37.over one of the key policies laid out in the queens speech. Newsnight
:01:38. > :01:41.has learned that conversation reforms for affordable child
:01:41. > :01:43.cautious particularly the ratio of children to child minders has not
:01:44. > :01:47.been signed off by Nick Clegg. On the very day the measures were laid
:01:47. > :01:52.out by the Monarch in parliament, the Lib Dem leader has made it
:01:52. > :01:55.clear he remains to be persuaded this is the right thing to. Do Our
:01:55. > :01:58.political editor joins us. What have you learned? In the last
:01:58. > :02:01.few days Nick Clegg has told colleagues across Government that
:02:01. > :02:04.the Liberal Democrats won't, afterall, be supporting this ratios
:02:04. > :02:07.measure. It sounds incredibly technical, but I imagine quite a
:02:07. > :02:13.lot of viewers have heard about it. It is this move to get young
:02:13. > :02:17.children under the ages of one, two, three, being looked after across
:02:17. > :02:20.greater ratio. So one person would look after four, where as they had
:02:20. > :02:24.been looking after three. The reason why this is important is
:02:24. > :02:28.firstly what it means about how the coalition does its business, and
:02:28. > :02:31.secondly about the specifics of childcare which, remember, are so
:02:31. > :02:33.central to this Government, it isn't a niche issue, it has become
:02:33. > :02:39.about getting more women in work, it has become about living
:02:39. > :02:43.standards and the cost of living. Process wise this was a policy that
:02:43. > :02:46.was finished, it was done, it is due to come in September. It was
:02:46. > :02:50.not open for revisiting. That's what Nick Clegg has done by saying
:02:50. > :02:53.do you know what, I can't actually deal with this any more. In terms
:02:53. > :02:58.of what that means about other coalition policies, well some of my
:02:58. > :03:02.sources are saying this evening what's fair game for them, as
:03:02. > :03:05.Conservatives, to go around and start picking. In terms of
:03:05. > :03:10.childcare Newsnight has been to France with the minister that is
:03:10. > :03:13.responsible for this, we have seen them really try to grapple with
:03:13. > :03:16.whether this policy work. She truly believes that if you don't do this
:03:16. > :03:21.policy you don't bring down the cost of childcare. That is what
:03:21. > :03:25.they are trying to do. My sources say that if they don't do this the
:03:25. > :03:27.whole costing of the whole policy falls apart. Remember this is a key
:03:27. > :03:37.offer of both coalition partner, not just the Liberal Democrats or
:03:37. > :03:41.the Tories on their own. Year after year, the Queen has
:03:41. > :03:44.arrived for the State Opening of Parliament. But this morning
:03:44. > :03:49.something was different. Prince Charles came too for only the
:03:49. > :03:53.second time ever. So did his wife, the Duchess of Cornwall, for her
:03:53. > :03:57.first time. Today it gave us a sense of transitions to come. The
:03:57. > :04:02.contents of the Queen's Speech was also about the future. The collapse
:04:02. > :04:11.of the coalition's childcare policy, just bun premonition of some fights
:04:11. > :04:20.ahead. The 15 bills the Queen came to deliver today had few onate
:04:20. > :04:28.embellishments, but performed strict functions, there were many
:04:28. > :04:31.issues about immigration. And action to care for people in their
:04:31. > :04:34.elderly years Her Majesty could have been reading out two party
:04:34. > :04:38.manifestos. My ministers will continue to prioritise measures
:04:38. > :04:43.that reduce the deficit, ensuring interest rates are kept low for
:04:43. > :04:47.homeowners and businesses. Prince allowed himself the odd tap
:04:47. > :04:52.of the foot and the Queen moved at a perky pace too, her speech all
:04:52. > :04:55.wrapped up within eight minutes. For the kfrs it had a very serious
:04:55. > :04:59.purpose -- the Conservatives, it had a very serious purpose, to
:04:59. > :05:05.define their message or be smothered by Ukip. As MPs filed
:05:05. > :05:08.back from the Lords to the Commons, they might have reflected this
:05:09. > :05:13.Queen's Speech marked the transition from one parliament to
:05:13. > :05:15.the other, the beginning to the end. This year's is probably the last
:05:15. > :05:18.significant programme of legislation before the next general
:05:18. > :05:21.election. There will be another one, it is just that with 12 months to
:05:21. > :05:25.go before the country goes to the polls it is unlikely that the
:05:25. > :05:29.coalition will be able to agree on enough to make the next Queen's
:05:29. > :05:34.Speech a chunky one. One MP spoke for many Conservatives when he told
:05:34. > :05:42.us that he would have liked to have seen an EU referendum bill today.
:05:42. > :05:46.But he's confident the future will be different. I think this is the
:05:46. > :05:51.last rose garden Queen's Speech, moving to the jungle next year, it
:05:51. > :05:54.will be no holds barred next year. We have to put forward, as a
:05:54. > :05:58.Conservative Party a very attractive compelling narrative by
:05:58. > :06:01.way of the Queen's Speech, which allows the voters to distinguish
:06:01. > :06:05.between us and the Liberal Democrats. I think we will see that.
:06:05. > :06:09.The people around David Cameron are very mindful that must be the
:06:09. > :06:16.number one priority, to have an authentic Conservative message next
:06:16. > :06:19.year. One of his Lib Dem partners was more sanguine, Tim Farron
:06:19. > :06:23.thinks disagreements are manageable. We disagree on issues of fairness.
:06:23. > :06:26.You will see that long before next year's Queen's Speech, which will
:06:26. > :06:30.be on issues of taxation. I'm sure George Osborne will want more tax
:06:31. > :06:35.cuts for the gaelty and Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems calling for more
:06:35. > :06:39.tax cuts for the poorer people and those on middle incomes. That will
:06:39. > :06:42.be our priority and continue to be a fight, but a good-natureed one.
:06:42. > :06:46.Despite all the appearences of the Queen's Speech and the debate
:06:46. > :06:50.afterwards that the Tories are leaning in to tackle the UKIP
:06:50. > :06:53.threat, actually, many Conservatives still harbour some
:06:53. > :06:57.hopes of winning over centrist voters. But there are some who will
:06:57. > :07:01.think they won't be able to win over both types. Ed Miliband knows
:07:01. > :07:05.this, that is why he teased the Prime Minister today.
:07:05. > :07:10.honourable member for mid-Somerset, he goes even further, he is nodding,
:07:10. > :07:14.he wants a coalition right now with UKIP. Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, they
:07:14. > :07:18.used to call them clowns, now they want to join the circus! The Prime
:07:18. > :07:21.Minister was clear about his plans, and he challenged Ed Miliband.
:07:21. > :07:26.the deficit they would increase it, on competitiveness they would put
:07:26. > :07:30.up taxes not cut them, on welfare reform they have opposed every step
:07:30. > :07:32.we have taken to make our system fair and affordable. These are the
:07:32. > :07:36.argument that is will dominate this Queen's Speech this session and the
:07:36. > :07:41.general election. But the Labour leader made sure UKIP was front and
:07:41. > :07:45.centre in the debate. As someone once said, he's in office but not
:07:45. > :07:49.in power. Because what is their party spending their time talking
:07:49. > :07:53.about, not youth unemployment, not the NHS, not the living standards
:07:53. > :07:59.crisis but the one subject, they are obsessing about day in day out
:07:59. > :08:02.is Europe and UKIP. Today that red carpet is served for two
:08:02. > :08:05.generations of royals, a Queen and her son. If the fate of the
:08:05. > :08:10.childcare policy is anything to go by, the other transsignificant, as
:08:10. > :08:14.we enter the beginning of the end of the coalition Government, won't
:08:14. > :08:24.get tide up so neatly. Let's discuss this now with the
:08:24. > :08:28.Conservative Party chairman. Let's catch up with what we have heard
:08:28. > :08:31.from Nick Clegg's office in the last hour or two, what will you do
:08:31. > :08:35.if he doesn't support this? whole thrust of the Queen's Speech
:08:35. > :08:38.is helping hard working families who want to get on in life, that
:08:38. > :08:43.includes families who happen to have children. There are a couple
:08:43. > :08:46.of parts to the proposal, one is to make sure people can have a tax
:08:46. > :08:49.break on their child cautious up to 20% of the costs there. The other
:08:49. > :08:55.is this element you were just talking about earlier which is at
:08:55. > :08:58.the moment in this country, unlike say in France or Germany, the ratio
:08:59. > :09:02.of carers, in other words, nursery teachers or child minders that you
:09:02. > :09:05.need to have to children is much lower, or higher, depending on how
:09:05. > :09:09.you look at it. For example you need to, at the moment, if the
:09:09. > :09:12.child is under two, and it is in nursery, there is one child, there
:09:13. > :09:16.is one person looking after them for every three. We want to move
:09:16. > :09:21.that to to one to every four. It is a bit more complicated than that,
:09:21. > :09:24.because there are different levels for nursery teachers and child
:09:24. > :09:27.minders. I think our viewers are familiar with this because it is a
:09:27. > :09:30.story we have covered a few times. The line from the Deputy Prime
:09:30. > :09:36.Minister's office is he has looked very closely at the proposals to
:09:36. > :09:40.increase the number of children each adult has look after, he has
:09:40. > :09:44.serious concerns, raised by parents and childcare providers and he
:09:44. > :09:47.remains to be persuaded it is the right thing to. Do he is not
:09:47. > :09:50.convinced we thought was something signed off by the Queen today?
:09:50. > :09:53.me explain the process. The reason I go into some detail about the
:09:53. > :09:57.number of children for the different levels is there has been
:09:57. > :09:59.a consultation, which has gone out with the full authority of the
:09:59. > :10:02.Government and both sides of the coalition, and has asked these
:10:02. > :10:05.questions about what the levels should be for children of different
:10:05. > :10:08.ages and under different types of childcare. You have had a petition
:10:08. > :10:11.of 11,000 people saying they disagree with the proposal that is
:10:11. > :10:15.are going through on this issue? The whole point of a consultation
:10:15. > :10:19.is get people's views. And you have 11,000 protesting, so the Prime
:10:19. > :10:23.Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister is not alone in this, he is now
:10:23. > :10:27.saying he won't sign off something which is absolutely integral to
:10:27. > :10:29.your childcare reforms? What we think and the Conservative side of
:10:29. > :10:33.this coalition believe that parents who want to go out, working hard,
:10:33. > :10:36.want to get on in life should be able to look after their children,
:10:36. > :10:40.or have them looked after if they want to go back to work and for
:10:40. > :10:44.that to be affordable N this country it is not. A lot of people
:10:44. > :10:47.will be sympathetic with the plans. I just want to step in, this isn't
:10:47. > :10:52.about the policy itself, this is about whether the two leaders at
:10:52. > :10:55.the top of the coalition have agreed to something that everyone
:10:55. > :10:58.saw the Queen sign off today F it is not signed off and there is
:10:58. > :11:02.horse trading, what does that mean for the rest of the stuff? There
:11:02. > :11:05.are one or two lines in the Queen's Speech which talked about what we
:11:05. > :11:08.absolutely will do, which is the hard working families out there, we
:11:08. > :11:12.will make sure that childcare in this country becomes affordable
:11:12. > :11:14.again. By the way to answer the question by people who have
:11:14. > :11:18.petitioned and what have you, you want the quality of that childcare
:11:18. > :11:20.to be higher, you want to have the higher level of qualification,
:11:21. > :11:26.which isn't always used at the moment. Whether that's a
:11:26. > :11:33.childminder or in a nursery, so higher quality, I think more
:11:33. > :11:37.practical versions of this. Who seriously thinks a child under one
:11:37. > :11:41.a childminder can only look after one, who thinks that really? Do you
:11:41. > :11:45.think this is a done deal, signed off, in the books by September,
:11:45. > :11:48.which is what we have all been led to believe? I think there will be a
:11:48. > :11:53.package and that will include a tax break. And these other issues?
:11:53. > :11:57.Which will be up to �6,000 for families T will also include
:11:57. > :12:00.changing these ratios, the important thing is it is out for
:12:00. > :12:04.consultation. If Nick Clegg will agree? Everything has two stages,
:12:04. > :12:07.it goes to consultation with Government agreement. Isn't
:12:07. > :12:10.consultation usually before it has been announced? Let me explain, it
:12:10. > :12:13.goes to consultation, that has to have Government agreement. Then it
:12:13. > :12:16.has to be implemented and you look through the consultation, you
:12:16. > :12:19.decide what you will agree on, that is the bit you are now having this
:12:19. > :12:23.discussion about. It is just that last bit of T as we have done with
:12:23. > :12:28.so many other issues, many as big or bigger as a coalition, we will
:12:28. > :12:32.get to the bottom of this and put plans in place that are on the side
:12:32. > :12:36.of hard-working families. Immigration, you have put that at
:12:36. > :12:40.the centre of much of what was talked about today, landlords to
:12:40. > :12:45.check on tenants, doctors to check on migrant status, and businesses
:12:45. > :12:49.that have to crackdown on whether they use illegal labour, this is
:12:49. > :12:54.outsourcing isn't it? I was Housing Minister and it is absolutely right
:12:54. > :12:58.that when somebody rents out a property they should know whether
:12:58. > :13:01.that person is supposed to be here in the first place, it is not an
:13:01. > :13:04.unreasonable thing to ask of somebody renting. When you consider
:13:04. > :13:08.at the moment a local council doesn't even ask that question
:13:08. > :13:11.before shelling out housing benefit, thousands of pounds potentially,
:13:11. > :13:14.that can't possibly be right. A lot of the time the landlord in
:13:14. > :13:17.question here will actually be the state, the Government, the local
:13:17. > :13:21.authority, I think it is absolutely right to have them ask precise low
:13:21. > :13:24.that question. There is no register in this country, in England, there
:13:24. > :13:28.is no register, there is nothing that compels landlords to do this.
:13:28. > :13:32.There is nothing that will check up on whether they have. What is the
:13:32. > :13:42.incentive and what is the punishment? There are all sorts of
:13:42. > :13:44.
:13:44. > :13:49.laws in which there is no specific check against the law and there are
:13:49. > :13:53.fines. You will fine? Absolutely. And check up on landlords? There
:13:53. > :13:57.are he can chs in the system. There are all sorts of things that people
:13:57. > :14:00.know there are things against the law. The landlord may be the local
:14:00. > :14:04.authority in many of the cases, it may be a private landlord. We
:14:04. > :14:09.expect private landlords to keep all kind of laws to do with health
:14:09. > :14:13.and safety, this is no different. Doctors to check on migrants'
:14:13. > :14:17.status, now it is the GPs that are a new Border Agency? I don't think
:14:17. > :14:21.there is anything particularly shocking or surprising your viewers
:14:21. > :14:25.will find unusual about the concept, before somebody accesses what can
:14:25. > :14:27.be very expensive services in this country, like the NHS, that there
:14:27. > :14:31.ought to be a reasonable check as to whether somebody has actually
:14:31. > :14:36.paid into the system and indeed should even be in this country in
:14:36. > :14:41.the first place. Are they legally here? It is a perfectly reasonable
:14:41. > :14:51.thing. Most people watching this will ask why has that not been done
:14:51. > :14:52.
:14:52. > :14:55.a long time ago. Ed Miliband called this a speech to "out-Farrage
:14:55. > :15:00.Farrage"? It is up to Ed Miliband to come up with policies all of
:15:00. > :15:03.which we have yet to see at this stage. The Queen's Speech indicates
:15:03. > :15:07.15 pieces of legislation that we are hard at work to help people in
:15:07. > :15:10.this country who want to work hard and get on with life. It doesn't
:15:10. > :15:13.matter if it is the Immigration Bill stopping people accessing
:15:13. > :15:18.services, or long-term care that means you don't have to sell your
:15:18. > :15:22.home any more, or the fact that you will get a decent single-tier
:15:22. > :15:27.pension from 2016. All those things are in the Queen's Speech, and we
:15:27. > :15:30.are on the side of people who want to work hard and get on in life.
:15:30. > :15:39.Coming up: This is an uprising from the
:15:39. > :15:42.grassroots. We take to the skies with Pakistan's election candidates.
:15:42. > :15:47.Despite the pomp at Westminster it was footballing royalty that
:15:47. > :15:55.arguably stole the show today. The man who promised to knock Liverpool
:15:55. > :16:00.off their "f-ing perch" amongst other things retired today. Alex
:16:00. > :16:03.Fergsuon leaves Manchester United, a club worth many millions with 38
:16:03. > :16:08.trophies under his belt. His approach was more despot than
:16:08. > :16:13.democrat, but it worked. The BBC understands that David Moyes will
:16:13. > :16:23.be announced as the new manager tomorrow. We look at what made Sir
:16:23. > :16:24.
:16:24. > :16:29.Alex the best. Manchester United have won the
:16:29. > :16:33.European Cup, it is astonishing. He stabbed it with his right foot and
:16:33. > :16:38.Manchester United rule Europe. is an achievement that symbolises
:16:38. > :16:44.almost everything that Sir Alex Fergsuon has come to represent. On
:16:44. > :16:50.May 26th 1999, Manchester United defeated Bayern Munich with a last-
:16:50. > :16:54.minute strike to win an unprecedented treble. It spoke of
:16:54. > :16:59.resilience, tenacity and unwaviering commitment to success.
:16:59. > :17:03.As Fergsuon himself put it, "we never give up, the time to give up
:17:03. > :17:08.is when you are dead". Fergsuon is a deeply polarising figure, there
:17:08. > :17:12.is no doubt he's a collosus of the modern sporting world. His
:17:12. > :17:16.retirement leaves a void, not just in the world's biggest club, but in
:17:16. > :17:20.one of the nation's most important cultural institutions, football.
:17:20. > :17:27.How did he achieve so much? How did he take a club and sport
:17:27. > :17:34.languishing in the 1980s and set in train what can only be described as
:17:35. > :17:39.a revolution. It all started in Govern. Fergsuon grew up in ten
:17:39. > :17:44.meant building in the industrial heartland of Glasgow. It was there
:17:44. > :17:48.he learned the things that would dominate his managerial style. The
:17:48. > :17:57.importance of community, discipline and solidarity. That heavy
:17:57. > :18:01.industrial heritage that is where it all comes from. You would have
:18:01. > :18:08.to have grown up in the communities to know why. Loyalties certainly
:18:08. > :18:13.come into it, "loyalty" is a word Fergsuon always uses, next to
:18:13. > :18:18."power", it was probably one of his favourites. And Fergsuon's loyalty
:18:18. > :18:23.is that loyalty is people being faithful to him! Fergsuon was
:18:23. > :18:29.interested not merely in building a team but in creating a dynasty.
:18:29. > :18:36.Like Sir Matt Busby before him. He made a conscious attempt to have a
:18:36. > :18:41.mythology around United. The Busby Babes after the Munich plane
:18:41. > :18:46.disaster. He was not interested in players playing merely for the pay
:18:46. > :18:53.check, he wanted them -- pay cheque, he wanted them to buy into
:18:53. > :18:56.something more visceral. Under him the team became a family a tribe.
:18:56. > :18:59.No retrospective can ignore Ferguson's darker side. I don't
:18:59. > :19:04.know what you are name is I'm not interested in what you have to say.
:19:04. > :19:08.He was controlling and at times manipulative. He banned journalists
:19:08. > :19:12.who wrote negative stories, even when they were true. He boycotted
:19:12. > :19:17.media organisations, including the BBC. At times Old Trafford seemed
:19:17. > :19:22.like a personal fiefdom. expressed himself through the
:19:22. > :19:30.questioning of other people's motives. Not just referees, we know
:19:30. > :19:32.about that, working on referees. But working on the mixture
:19:32. > :19:36.compilers for conspiring against Manchester United, against the
:19:36. > :19:38.television companies for their scheduling, against the Premier
:19:38. > :19:43.League for mitigating since Manchester United's Champions
:19:43. > :19:51.League chances by the dates of matches. All this as decribing of
:19:51. > :19:55.bad faith to -- ascribing of bad faith was something that didn't
:19:55. > :19:59.happen in the past. Managers previous were sportsmanlike in
:19:59. > :20:06.public, they might not like it in private, but they were in public,
:20:06. > :20:10.Ferguson has changed all that. Clive Woodward, one of sport's most
:20:10. > :20:14.influential leaders argues that these defects could be great
:20:14. > :20:17.strengths. Most people at the top of business and sport are not the
:20:17. > :20:22.easiest to get on with, they are like that and used to battering
:20:22. > :20:25.doors down. That is what you want. At a dangerous time you put in the
:20:25. > :20:28.popular person or somebody to get on with everybody, that doesn't
:20:28. > :20:32.always produce a winning team in my experience. You want someone out
:20:32. > :20:36.there an out-and-out leader and figurehead who knows everyone will
:20:36. > :20:40.follow him. He's that person. I think Alex Ferguson would have been
:20:40. > :20:44.successful whatever he did. It is one of the great ironies of
:20:44. > :20:49.Ferguson's tenure that this avowed socialist presided over the
:20:49. > :20:53.transformation of the club into a bastion of global capitalism. The
:20:53. > :21:00.club was purchased by family of American entrepeneurs and loaded
:21:00. > :21:05.down with leveraged debt. It caused a breakaway amongst hardcore fans.
:21:05. > :21:08.It was only the success of the manager that held the club together.
:21:08. > :21:13.Ferguson's success at United has coincided with a boom in one of
:21:13. > :21:21.Britain's most successful exports. Whilst the Premier League is big it
:21:21. > :21:23.is only as big as its aggregate stellar clubs, there is no club
:21:23. > :21:27.bigger on a worldwide basis than Manchester United. There is no
:21:27. > :21:31.single character, whether it be a player or whoever who has been
:21:31. > :21:37.involved in Manchester United that comes bigger than Sir Alex. So in a
:21:37. > :21:39.sense, if you look at me as the "chief salesman" of the Premier
:21:39. > :21:43.League, I have been out there selling, do you want a watch, do
:21:43. > :21:46.you want this or that. But the biggest product I have had to sell
:21:46. > :21:53.is the fact that when they buy the Premier League they buy Manchester
:21:53. > :22:00.United, and when they buy Manchester United they buy Sir Alex
:22:00. > :22:05.Ferguson. Before Ferguson's tenure football was almost a different
:22:05. > :22:15.sport. The creation of the Premier League in 1992 was a watershed that
:22:15. > :22:16.
:22:16. > :22:20.coincided with the beginning of Ferguson's dominance. 85-86 there
:22:20. > :22:22.was no television deal, no Match of the Day. The BBC didn't want to
:22:22. > :22:25.show highlights. We had no television deal at all. There was
:22:25. > :22:31.no football on television, you couldn't give it way. Then we had
:22:31. > :22:36.the tragedies of Bradford and Hillsborough, and then we had all
:22:36. > :22:40.the fall-out from that. Don't underestimate how big a part that
:22:40. > :22:45.played really in the resurgence. Because, again, the fact that the
:22:45. > :22:49.Premier League was even able to break-away. It wouldn't, and
:22:49. > :22:53.couldn't happen today. It was at a time when nobody was interested.
:22:53. > :22:59.is not just the fans who have been spooked. United's value plummeted
:23:00. > :23:06.today by �80 million on the opening of the New York Stock Exchange.
:23:06. > :23:10.David Moyes, a fellow Glaswegian, is expected to be announced as
:23:10. > :23:14.Ferguson's successor. He will take over from one of the most xelgs
:23:14. > :23:19.compelling and complex figures in British sports. Mark Hughes was one
:23:19. > :23:24.of his early signings, he went on to play for Manchester United and
:23:24. > :23:29.managed Fulham and Queens Park Rangers. I asked him what set Sir
:23:29. > :23:33.Alex apart? It is his retire and will to win. That is what he
:23:33. > :23:37.imparts on players. I was very fortunate to play for five or six
:23:37. > :23:41.years under him. His determination to succeed as a manager and
:23:41. > :23:44.determination to make you better as player was there every single day
:23:44. > :23:50.that I was there and certainly that's continued for the whole of
:23:50. > :23:55.the 26 years I'm sure. When I first went there United weren't in a
:23:55. > :23:59.great situation in terms of the quality of the team. But obviously
:23:59. > :24:04.as time has passed he has addresseded that very, very quickly
:24:04. > :24:09.and has had addressed that very, very quickly and had success that
:24:09. > :24:19.won't be emulated again in my view. When you say that desire to succeed,
:24:19. > :24:19.
:24:19. > :24:23.was he terrifying as a manager? Absolutely, yeah. When he first
:24:23. > :24:26.came down from Scotland he found things that were completely at odds
:24:26. > :24:31.than he would find, he knew he had to address them and stamp his
:24:31. > :24:35.authority. He did that very, very quickly. But all accounts he has
:24:35. > :24:40.mellowed, I'm not sure he has. He has had to manage in a different
:24:40. > :24:44.way. It is a different era. The dressing rooms are different to
:24:44. > :24:47.when he first came down from Scotland. The dressing room was
:24:47. > :24:51.dominantly British and now it is a lot more diverse. He has had to
:24:51. > :24:55.change I'm sure. That is one of his great strengths he has never stood
:24:55. > :25:00.still. A lot of managers have gone out the game because they have
:25:00. > :25:04.thought that what they did 20 years ago would stand them in good stead,
:25:04. > :25:07.but he has always embraced new things. What if you disagreed with
:25:07. > :25:13.him, was there room for disagreement in the skad? Sfrpblgt
:25:13. > :25:18.you could disagree, but in some -- You could disagree, but in no
:25:18. > :25:22.uncertain terms he would tell you you were wrong. You could have a
:25:22. > :25:27.voice, I was present on a number of occasions when players went head-
:25:27. > :25:30.to-head with him. You always knew he was the boss and fundamentally
:25:30. > :25:33.you always knew what he said was right. You had the utmost respect
:25:33. > :25:36.for him, at times you didn't particularly like him because of
:25:36. > :25:41.the way he was. He made you a better player and that is why you
:25:41. > :25:46.had great respect for him. When you were managing Manchester City,
:25:46. > :25:50.could you have gone to him at that point for advice? I'm not sure
:25:51. > :25:54.about that. Possibly. In fairness to him he was always very open and
:25:54. > :25:58.always has been ever since he has been a manager. And since I have
:25:58. > :26:02.been a manager he is always there for you. He's very good with young
:26:02. > :26:06.managers. He's very good with ex- players trying to find a way in
:26:06. > :26:10.this crazy world of football. You knew that if you were in a real
:26:10. > :26:14.tight spot that he would help you. I don't think he possibly would
:26:14. > :26:17.have been as forth coming when it was Manchester City manager, but
:26:17. > :26:24.certainly you knew that there was a pool of knowledge that you could
:26:24. > :26:29.tap into any time I'm sure. We hear those quotes that he wanted to
:26:29. > :26:32."knock Liverpool off its f-ing perch", his feelings towards
:26:32. > :26:37.Manchester City were similar to the end. Do you think he was driven by
:26:37. > :26:40.the desire, not just to win, but to really see the others put down?
:26:40. > :26:46.think he just had a real desire to see Manchester United top of the
:26:46. > :26:49.pile. When he came down from Scotland the team itself was
:26:49. > :26:54.underperforming, it was a mid-table First Division side. Quickly
:26:54. > :26:59.addressed that and made them the superpower that they are now. It is
:26:59. > :27:09.all down to him. Down to his desire, his determination to take United
:27:09. > :27:09.
:27:09. > :27:19.where he felt they rightly should be. Only a man of his stature was
:27:19. > :27:19.
:27:19. > :27:24.able to do it. We know that David Moyes going to be put into the job
:27:24. > :27:27.is that the right choice? Congrat layings to him and he's an
:27:27. > :27:31.outstanding manager. He has -- congratulations to him he's an
:27:31. > :27:36.outstanding manager and he has shown that in his longevity in the
:27:36. > :27:40.job. He will be viewed as a manager who can come in and stead Yeo the
:27:40. > :27:50.ship and make sure things -- steady the ship and make sure things
:27:50. > :27:54.
:27:54. > :28:02.continue in the same vain. Joining me -- vein. Joining me now is Danny
:28:02. > :28:05.Finkelstein, and Alastair dam bell and my guest from America. Did the
:28:05. > :28:09.think-tank see this? I'm a great sceptic about managers, I think
:28:09. > :28:13.most of the time they make no difference, but there are a few who
:28:13. > :28:16.are an exception and he was. You can plot the wages against points.
:28:16. > :28:22.You can see whether someone just basically spends the money and gets
:28:22. > :28:27.back what you would expect. That is what Roberto Mancini this season
:28:27. > :28:33.has done. But Alex Ferguson season after season is outperforming the
:28:33. > :28:39.money. He's an above-the-curve manager. He was our Manager of the
:28:39. > :28:42.Season this year. When he look over in 1986 that was the trajectory he
:28:42. > :28:47.wanted, where did the tipping point come? We have only been doing
:28:47. > :28:50.statistics for ten years, he clearly had a run-in period. What
:28:50. > :28:54.is also apparent is Manchester United as an organisation stuck
:28:55. > :29:03.with him. Lots of organisations, it has happened to Brian McDermott,
:29:03. > :29:08.Manager of the Month one month and sacked the next. Articlely Acelotti,
:29:08. > :29:12.in April and March Manager of the Month and sacked in May by Chelsea.
:29:12. > :29:18.But Alex was allowed to lose two back-to-back titles to Chelsea and
:29:18. > :29:23.they didn't make him retire. As an organisation they understood that
:29:23. > :29:27.results compared to the mean, that statistics bounce about but he was
:29:27. > :29:31.the right manager. Does statistics show that lesson that you stick
:29:31. > :29:35.with the guy who is failing because consistency is more important than
:29:35. > :29:41.change? I think consistency is very, very important. I think the fact
:29:41. > :29:44.that Alex Ferguson has been manager of the club for 26 years
:29:44. > :29:50.consistently, as you have just pointed out, he had a sticky first
:29:50. > :29:54.five years. I think they lost 5-1 to Manchester City in the first few
:29:54. > :30:03.years, there were calls for his head. The manager of the club stuck
:30:03. > :30:08.with him.S had an interesting change, I felt very sad, like Peter
:30:08. > :30:12.Schmikel that Alex was retiring. You have David Gill from the club
:30:12. > :30:16.as CEO and the manager going at the same time. Or a similar time, it is
:30:16. > :30:19.interesting that they moved so quickly on David Moyes. I had to
:30:19. > :30:25.correct one thing, the fall in the share price was not as substantial
:30:25. > :30:29.as the report suggested. By the close it was down about 2%, about
:30:29. > :30:34.$60 million. Given the significance of the change I think the club has
:30:34. > :30:39.handled it very well. Certainly in the early days. I think David Moyes
:30:39. > :30:43.has to be given time, that is the critical issue, coming back to the
:30:43. > :30:49.point about consistency. That David Moyes will have his ups and downs,
:30:49. > :30:54.and it is very important that the board give him time to make his
:30:54. > :31:02.mark as they gave Alex Ferguson the time he needed from 1986. It looks
:31:02. > :31:06.like we have decided's in the job as of tomorrow? Apart from Sam
:31:06. > :31:12.Allerdyce he's the only one above the line, he achieves more points
:31:12. > :31:16.than the money. His resignation, might have pre-empted his decision
:31:16. > :31:20.by a few days, but he was one of the few people in those jobs who
:31:20. > :31:23.could decide when he went, rather than the other way around? It was
:31:23. > :31:27.important to him that he did that. As he has been successful over time
:31:27. > :31:31.he has become more powerful within the club and within the game. Mark
:31:31. > :31:36.Hughes is not the only manager to talk in those terms about Alex
:31:36. > :31:40.Ferguson, because he has people all over football. He was pretty much
:31:40. > :31:45.unsackable, but I think he wanted to go when he was strong, when he
:31:45. > :31:50.just won another title. The handing over to David Moyes is part of a
:31:50. > :31:53.transition. Because he picked him? He is clearly involved in that. He
:31:53. > :31:58.wants the club to be in good shape. He wants somebody to come in and
:31:58. > :32:00.build on what he has done. He won't be a back seat driver, he will
:32:00. > :32:04.definitely be involved, an ambassador and director for the
:32:04. > :32:08.club. He is a legend. The word "legend" is overused in football.
:32:08. > :32:12.He is a legend. He's a great believer in history, and the power
:32:12. > :32:16.of history for the here and now. Manchester United is now an even
:32:16. > :32:20.bigger club as a result of what he has done today. Because it is the
:32:20. > :32:24.latest chapter in the legend. bored "brand" is often overused,
:32:24. > :32:29.but this story has been leading bulletins right across Africa, Asia,
:32:29. > :32:33.China and the rest of it? Absolutely incredible. If you
:32:34. > :32:38.follow the Twitter pattern more tweets than when Margaret Thatcher
:32:38. > :32:43.died a week or so ago. It is quite extraordinary the focus on it.
:32:43. > :32:46.Manchester United is the biggest brand in world football. We track
:32:47. > :32:51.1.6 million global fans around the world. Almost half of those around
:32:51. > :32:54.the world, mainly in the fast- growing market, the called emerging
:32:54. > :32:59.markets, follow Manchester United with a passion. With the same
:32:59. > :33:02.passion that Alex Ferguson had as manager. I think that's what marks
:33:02. > :33:12.him out. He is almost entre pent neural in his zeal for Manchester
:33:12. > :33:14.
:33:14. > :33:19.United and the brand. I think the - - there is nothing wrong with want
:33:19. > :33:24.to go win. If that does annoy others and get into trouble with
:33:24. > :33:28.the BBC that is it. Alex Ferguson would often win titles when
:33:28. > :33:31.Manchester United were not the best team. This season bizarrely enough
:33:31. > :33:35.Manchester City beat Manchester United and they were favourites,
:33:35. > :33:42.the think-tank made them favourites in that game. I want to pick up on
:33:42. > :33:47.what was said, the entrepeneural spirit, the art socialist who
:33:47. > :33:51.seemed to despise money and sit atop this �3 billion empire?
:33:51. > :33:54.didn't despise money, one of the reasons he remained a Labour
:33:54. > :33:59.supporter and very committed to new Labour was the fact that in a sense
:33:59. > :34:03.what Tony Blair certainly did was success was not a dirty word. Also
:34:04. > :34:07.it was perfectly possible to be wealthy as Alex Ferguson is, but
:34:07. > :34:11.also to have the same socialist values with which he grew up. One
:34:11. > :34:14.of the reasons he was a successful manager for Manchester United is he
:34:14. > :34:19.brought those values into the club. That is another reason to go for
:34:19. > :34:22.David Moyes because he has done something very similar at Everton.
:34:22. > :34:26.Anyone who has seen Alex Ferguson operating around the ground and the
:34:26. > :34:29.club, he knows everybody and their kids' names. I'm not saying non-
:34:29. > :34:33.socialists don't, but that sense of the club being the product of
:34:33. > :34:39.people, including the fans around the world that you talked about,
:34:39. > :34:46.that is mean ago lot to him and that is why he has built such a big
:34:46. > :34:49.institution. You know him better I only know him out of the newspapers.
:34:49. > :34:53.He's an intelligent person with strong values. A lot of people
:34:53. > :34:56.think that doesn't in sport, it clearly does, just to receive
:34:57. > :35:00.better results, it matters on the pitch that a lot of the footballers
:35:01. > :35:08.aren't that educated but they are very clever. To have to be in order
:35:08. > :35:14.to do things like calculate the angle required for Van Persie to
:35:14. > :35:18.score an amazing goal. When Matthew was talking about the revolution, a
:35:18. > :35:23.footballing revolution was put down in no small part to Alex Ferguson?
:35:23. > :35:27.He has only played a role in it, satellite television played a role
:35:27. > :35:32.in it. Which one is bigger, Murdoch or Ferguson? Football went through
:35:32. > :35:35.a very bad patch. There is Thatcher was not the best Prime Minister for
:35:35. > :35:39.football. The Premier League did turn it into something different.
:35:39. > :35:43.Match that to television. Match that to some of the big names in
:35:43. > :35:46.the game. Let's not forget, we are talking about Alex for various
:35:46. > :35:50.reasons, but the players are hugely important in that. What he was
:35:50. > :35:54.always brilliant at was spotting the talent and turning that talent.
:35:54. > :35:58.He was great at taking good players and turning them into something
:35:58. > :36:05.very special. Do you think that Manchester United is at the peak of
:36:05. > :36:09.its brand position right now. Is the only way down from here? It is
:36:09. > :36:17.worth $3 billion on the exchange. Arsenal is worth about half of that,
:36:17. > :36:22.$1.5, you look at the Green Bay Packers, they are valued at $1
:36:22. > :36:26.million. Real Madrid were ranked by Forbes slightly higher in terms of
:36:26. > :36:28.revenue, Manchester United doesn't have a quote to compare it to. In
:36:28. > :36:33.terms of brand value Manchester United certainly extremely strong.
:36:33. > :36:39.It will be a testing time for Manchester United without Alex
:36:39. > :36:46.faring fare -- Ferguson, without David Gill, strong shirt
:36:46. > :36:49.sponsorship and ground sponsorship that has been built. It will be a
:36:49. > :36:51.testing time and this is a transition period. There is no
:36:51. > :36:54.reason why Manchester United shouldn't go on to be one of the
:36:54. > :36:58.most powerful, if not the most powerful brands, not just in
:36:58. > :37:03.football, not just in soccer, but across the whole sports world.
:37:03. > :37:06.Thank you all very much. Thanks. Pakistan's heading to the polls,
:37:06. > :37:09.for the first time in the 63 history one democratically elected
:37:09. > :37:13.Government will be replaced by another. That hasn't stopped it
:37:13. > :37:16.being the bloodiest election ever. Scores of people have died in
:37:16. > :37:19.attacks by the Taliban, targeting political parties and candidates.
:37:20. > :37:23.It has become a battle between democratic and non-democratic
:37:23. > :37:28.forces that will shape the future direction of the country. We have
:37:28. > :37:33.been out on the campaign trail with the leading candidates.
:37:33. > :37:37.With The crowds have gathered here at this hospital in Lahore, where
:37:37. > :37:43.doctors are keeping Imran Khan under close observation. Last night
:37:43. > :37:47.he tumbled from a fork lift at an electoraly in the city. He has had
:37:47. > :37:50.15 stitches and sustained three spinal fractures. The doctors say
:37:50. > :37:55.he will make a full recovery, he just needs to rest. That is hard,
:37:55. > :37:59.these are the final showers of the most close low- fought, the most
:37:59. > :38:03.unpredictable election that Pakistan has ever seen. The big
:38:03. > :38:08.question now is will Imran Khan's fall cause him to rise in the polls.
:38:08. > :38:13.There will be a sympathy vote. That is certainly on the minds of his
:38:13. > :38:17.rivals. His chief challenger, Nawaz Sharif, cancelled his rallies today
:38:17. > :38:21.in solidarity. It was also a shrewd political move. In the last month
:38:21. > :38:26.these two men have campaigned the hardest. That's partly because
:38:26. > :38:30.their parties are not on a Taliban hitlist. There have been almost
:38:30. > :38:38.daily attacks on other candidates. Even so Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif
:38:38. > :38:43.are the front-runners this time. We have been following both of them.
:38:43. > :38:48.In Pakistan election campaigns have always had a carnival atmosphere.
:38:48. > :38:51.Even here in the North West which has seen some of the worst of
:38:52. > :38:58.Taliban attacks. But this time only certain politicians have been able
:38:58. > :39:04.to hold rallies in relative safety. Imran Khan is one of them. He's
:39:05. > :39:10.drawing huge crowds. REPORTER: How is the campaign going? We are
:39:10. > :39:14.winning. His critics say he has been able to hold rallies here
:39:14. > :39:17.because he has been soft on the Taliban. REPORTER: They say you are
:39:17. > :39:20.not willing to fight the Taliban who are causing the war here?
:39:20. > :39:24.have been fighting them for nine years and it has got worse. There
:39:24. > :39:30.is more radicalisation, there is more extremism, there is more
:39:30. > :39:35.terrorism today than nine years back. Clearly what we are trying to
:39:35. > :39:39.do to cure this illness is increasing the cancer, it is
:39:39. > :39:44.spreading. You need to change strategy. The former cricket
:39:44. > :39:52.captain, well known in the west as a charismatic playboy still limbers
:39:52. > :40:01.up for a fight. But he leads a different team now, with a very
:40:01. > :40:06.different message. All the bloodshed here is America's fault
:40:06. > :40:09.he tells these crowds. He vows to shoot down US drones operating
:40:09. > :40:19.along the Afghan border and promises to establish a model
:40:19. > :40:24.
:40:24. > :40:28.Islamic welfare state. That message resonates here in one of the most
:40:28. > :40:36.conservative parts of Pakistan. Even so, like every other
:40:36. > :40:45.politician, armed guards form part of his entourage. On every stop he
:40:45. > :40:50.takes the same message, change. New Pakistan. As he plies across the
:40:50. > :40:56.country, the confident Khan promises to end corruption and up-
:40:56. > :41:06.end the political status quo. That is striking a chord unthinkable a
:41:06. > :41:07.
:41:07. > :41:17.decade ago. In the 2002 elections his Movement for Justice party won
:41:17. > :41:17.
:41:17. > :41:24.only one seat. His rivals say he's inexperienced, niave, but 60-year-
:41:24. > :41:30.old Imran Khan thinks his time has come. What you are seeing is a
:41:30. > :41:34.revolution. This is beyond, if you see the passion, this is not normal
:41:34. > :41:40.politics. This is an uprising from the grassroots. And what has
:41:40. > :41:43.happened is that we have completely bypassed the traditional
:41:43. > :41:47.politicians and the people are moving away from them. There is no
:41:47. > :41:53.doubting his popularity, but can he win votes without the party
:41:53. > :41:57.machinery of his more established rivals. For decades people power
:41:57. > :42:07.used to be the mantra of the Pakistan People's Party. This time
:42:07. > :42:10.
:42:10. > :42:16.it is mainly campaigning on the past. Rallies of Benazir Bhutto,
:42:16. > :42:23.executed, and her father also executed. In this Pakistani dynasty
:42:23. > :42:30.her son heads the party that won the last elections. Taliban threats
:42:30. > :42:35.mean he has had to leave Pakistan. So he is posting video messages on-
:42:35. > :42:39.line from Dubai. A party with a poor record in office hasn't had
:42:39. > :42:47.much of a campaign. Although traditional loyalties still hold in
:42:47. > :42:53.some areas. But Pakistan's other major political force is still
:42:53. > :42:58.taking to the road. Nawaz Sharif is a familiar face. I have been
:42:58. > :43:03.covering his election campaign since 1988. Good to see you again.
:43:03. > :43:07.How are you? Good. You are back on the campaign trail. He has been
:43:07. > :43:13.Prime Minister twice, from a family of wealthy industrialists. No
:43:13. > :43:17.wonder he can afford to travel by private jet. On the plane he reads
:43:17. > :43:22.the latest reports which predict he will be Prime Minister again. But I
:43:22. > :43:25.put it to him that Imran Khan and his message of change are
:43:25. > :43:31.challenging his Pakistan Muslim League, even on his home turf,
:43:31. > :43:36.Punjab, where elections are won and lost? We are changing and we will
:43:36. > :43:43.continue to change. We know we have the right team with us. We have a
:43:43. > :43:52.team of exports, people who have done it before. I think no other
:43:52. > :43:56.party can claim to have better people than we have in the group
:43:56. > :43:59.and they are honest. Our team is recognised by everybody in this
:44:00. > :44:04.country. What if they say if the traditional parties had done a
:44:05. > :44:13.better job then Pakistan would not be in the trouble it is? We need
:44:13. > :44:19.mature not immature people. Nawaz Sharif still has strong support.
:44:19. > :44:24.They shout "Prime Minister" as he arrives at this hotel in Islamabad.
:44:24. > :44:31.He's here to meet local shopkeeper. But even this business meeting
:44:31. > :44:39.descends into chaos. They are here because they say Nawaz Sharif is
:44:39. > :44:49.good for business. He says join him to make Pakistan a prosperous land.
:44:49. > :44:49.
:44:49. > :44:56.He promises to end the constant power cuts crippling the economy.
:44:56. > :45:02.And then his favourite punch line. "I play cricket too", but it is not
:45:02. > :45:05.the only thing he has done, he says. He has also made the atom bomb.
:45:05. > :45:14.Pakistan went nuclear when he was in office. He knows that line goes
:45:14. > :45:20.down well here. This contest is possibly the most unpredictable
:45:20. > :45:25.Pakistan has ever seen. Not just because of new candidates, about 40
:45:25. > :45:32.million young Pakistanis will be eligible to vote for the first time.
:45:32. > :45:37.They are entering the debate. really excited for this, and the
:45:37. > :45:41.Pakistanis are youth-based the majority of the population is young.
:45:41. > :45:48.This time we have our voices raised for the empowerment of the youth
:45:48. > :45:53.and the new changes. In large parts of Pakistan Taliban attacks on some
:45:53. > :45:55.parties are dictating the course of the campaign. They are operating
:45:56. > :46:05.with impunity. That growing strength will have to be addressed.
:46:06. > :46:06.
:46:06. > :46:12.No matter who wins. The big issue now is turnout on Saturday. Fear of
:46:12. > :46:17.attacks could keep many at home. If so, a political force which isn't
:46:17. > :46:20.on the ballot will have won the day. All the papers going on different
:46:20. > :46:30.things tomorrow, we will receive leave you with just one, the Sun's
:46:30. > :46:40.
:46:40. > :46:44.front page, the Hair Dryer After starting the week with warm
:46:44. > :46:48.sunshine, Thursday's weather is not what you would expect or indeed
:46:48. > :46:52.hoped for with a deep area of low pressure barreling in from the
:46:52. > :46:55.Atlantic, bringing strong winds over the southern part of the UK.
:46:55. > :46:58.With heavy and persistent rain. It will be a breezy day for Northern
:46:58. > :47:01.Ireland. Brighter spells for the afternoon. But some thundery
:47:01. > :47:05.showers. Northern Scotland fares pretty well throughout the day.
:47:05. > :47:10.Probably the best of the sunshine here. There will be showers around
:47:10. > :47:13.too. The wind comparatively light to the strength of the south.
:47:13. > :47:16.Northern England wet through the afternoon. Rain pushing into the
:47:16. > :47:20.Midland. In the east sunny spells across East Anglia and the south-
:47:21. > :47:26.east of England T won't feel warm. 12-13 are the highs, strong and
:47:26. > :47:30.gusty winds and a chance of showers. Wettest and windyist through all of
:47:30. > :47:34.this, the south west of England and Wales. Gusts up to 65 miles around
:47:34. > :47:39.the Irish Sea coast. 55 miles an hour inland. The rain stick around
:47:40. > :47:43.for a good part of the day. For Thursday, some of the best of the
:47:43. > :47:45.sunshine to be found to the far north of the British Isles. By
:47:45. > :47:49.Friday hopefully we will see something dryer and brighter
:47:49. > :47:53.pushing into the south. Friday though does bring us another pretty