:00:13. > :00:16.$:/STARTFEED. They start out as ordinary girls, by the time they
:00:16. > :00:21.are finished they are hollow. Tonight, a harrowing story of
:00:21. > :00:25.modern day slavery and the darker side of Oxford. Victims tortured by
:00:25. > :00:30.their abusers, then failed by services that should have protected
:00:30. > :00:35.them. I was asked to go to guesthouses and to London and
:00:35. > :00:38.places like that to see other men and I was told it was doing them a
:00:38. > :00:43.favour. I was still under the illusion that they cared about me
:00:43. > :00:48.and they were my friends. We ask the director of public prosecutions
:00:48. > :00:52.what went so badly wrong. As seven Asian men are found guilty of
:00:53. > :00:57.horrendous abuse, we ask if race or religion played any part in this
:00:57. > :01:03.crime. Also tonight:
:01:03. > :01:10.Just how green is pleasant land? Is the EU farming subsidy worth your
:01:10. > :01:14.�400 a year. Slaying cancer the Angelina way,
:01:14. > :01:22.with a double mastectomy. Will it change perceptions of feminine
:01:22. > :01:25.beauty. They are shells of what they should
:01:25. > :01:29.be. The little girl in there is gone. The details of the Oxford
:01:29. > :01:34.child sex ring are too horrendous, said the detective in charge, to
:01:34. > :01:40.report or put on TV. Girls as young as 11, tortured, druged, one forced
:01:40. > :01:45.to have a DIY abortion. Tonight seven men of Pakistani and north
:01:45. > :01:52.African heritage have been found guilty of eye watering offences.
:01:52. > :01:56.The girls were victims of gang rape, yes, but also a culture of a slave
:01:56. > :02:00.and drug culture. And authorities who appeared to turn away the one
:02:00. > :02:04.mother who voiced her fears. We ask how this was allowed to continue
:02:04. > :02:14.six years after the alarm was first raised and question what role if
:02:14. > :02:22.any race and religion has played. First the victims. If it can happen
:02:22. > :02:28.in Oxford it can happen anywhere. It is a I city of spires, college
:02:28. > :02:32.quads and punts. And the jury heard it is also a city of sleazey
:02:32. > :02:39.backstreets were young girls were systematically groomed, raped and
:02:39. > :02:44.sold as sex slaves for years at a time. One witness in the trial said
:02:44. > :02:48.the abuse began when she was around 13. She used to play truant,
:02:48. > :02:53.hideing from her teachers in the park. She met one of the defendants
:02:53. > :02:59.and he started taking her to parties to give her drink, drugs,
:02:59. > :03:04.to have sex with her and then...I Started to go to guesthouses and to
:03:04. > :03:07.London and places like that to see other men and I was told it was
:03:07. > :03:12.doing him a favour. I was still under the illusion that they cared
:03:12. > :03:20.about me and they were my friends. They would text her and she would
:03:20. > :03:25.go where she was told. Like automoton. I was out almost every
:03:25. > :03:29.day away from home, sometimes more than one day at a time. Sometimes I
:03:29. > :03:36.would have breaks where I went home to my mum and I would be just
:03:36. > :03:43.ending up in hospital because I had so many drugs. Yes, so the majority
:03:43. > :03:49.of the time I was away having sex with different men. Today seven men
:03:49. > :03:59.were found guilty on 59 separate charges, including Kamar Jamil,
:03:59. > :04:08.
:04:08. > :04:13.The two sets of brothers were central. Police interviews show how
:04:13. > :04:19.Anjum Dogar said this was mistaken identity. That wasn't me. While his
:04:19. > :04:23.brother, like the Karrars, declined to answer questions. No comment.
:04:23. > :04:28.Most of their victims had been in care. Both police and social
:04:28. > :04:32.services apologised for their failure to act before. We are
:04:32. > :04:36.really sorry it took so long. We have learned a huge amount over
:04:36. > :04:39.this period of years in terms of how to deal with things. Going back
:04:39. > :04:42.social workers were doing their utmost to try to protect children.
:04:42. > :04:47.I don't think we realised quite what we were up against then. We
:04:47. > :04:50.have learned a lot with the police subsequently. Much depended on the
:04:50. > :04:56.witnesses. Many thought at the time they were acting like adults,
:04:56. > :05:00.east Oxford and meet their friends, to act in what they thought were
:05:00. > :05:07.adult ways. Controlled for years, they were still fearful of their
:05:07. > :05:13.abusers, police had to work hard to get them to court. They just
:05:13. > :05:17.corrupt them completely. They start out at 11 or 12 just an ordinary
:05:17. > :05:21.girl, in our case, by the time they are finished they are hollow. They
:05:21. > :05:25.are shells of what they should be. The little girl that was in there
:05:25. > :05:29.is gone. We have had to spend a huge amount of time trying to find
:05:29. > :05:35.that little girl. The jury heard that some of the victims had gone
:05:35. > :05:39.to the police in the past. In 2006 a policewoman was cycling past this
:05:39. > :05:44.mews when she noticed a light on in a building she had thought was
:05:44. > :05:49.empty. She went in to investigate and inside found a young girl, one
:05:49. > :05:53.of the witnesses in the court case, with her was an older man. Three
:05:53. > :06:01.other men arrived with drink, condoms, cash, the officer arrested
:06:01. > :06:04.all four, but the girl didn't want to press charges. This guesthouse
:06:04. > :06:09.came up repeatedly in evidence to the court. Many girls said they had
:06:09. > :06:11.been brought here to be raped. On one occasion the assault was so
:06:11. > :06:17.violent, so noisy that another guest heard it and reported it to
:06:17. > :06:21.the police. I could hear a woman getting slapped across next door to
:06:21. > :06:25.my room. How long ago was this? was around about 20 minutes ago, I
:06:25. > :06:31.have left and got out of there, I didn't want to hear it. That case
:06:32. > :06:35.didn't come to court then. We have dealt with these girls in the past.
:06:35. > :06:40.And dealt with individual offences. We have tried to get them to court
:06:40. > :06:46.and it is really difficult. They feel the pressure of the men behind
:06:46. > :06:50.them, they are not in the right position. Some of the defendants
:06:50. > :06:53.admitted meeting the girls in public places like the bench in the
:06:53. > :06:58.park near Oxford's main mosque. They denied the charges of rape and
:06:58. > :07:04.assault. So the girls' evidence, and the coroborating forensic
:07:04. > :07:09.evidence was crucial. Two years ago, here on Newsnight, Jack Straw
:07:09. > :07:13.provoked an outcry when he warned of this particular kind of sexual
:07:13. > :07:20.exploitation. There is a specific problem that involves Pakistani
:07:20. > :07:25.heritage men, some of some age as well who target vulnerable young
:07:25. > :07:31.white girls and we need to get the Pakistani community to think much
:07:31. > :07:36.more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about
:07:36. > :07:42.the problem that is are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men
:07:42. > :07:47.thinking that it is OK to target white girls in this way. In the
:07:47. > :07:50.Oxford trial most defendants were of Pakistani origin, part of
:07:50. > :08:00.Oxford's small, well established community. The case came as a shock.
:08:00. > :08:06.These are laneous crimes -- henious crimes, they are despicable, and
:08:06. > :08:12.their very nature has to be secretive. In our culture the shame
:08:12. > :08:19.play as very important role. If you are caught in public, for example,
:08:19. > :08:25.even drinking, it brings a great shame. So these things are done
:08:25. > :08:31.secretly. I can't envisage a situation where people are doing
:08:31. > :08:37.this kind of thing openly at all. Some of the defendants had grown up
:08:37. > :08:42.together in the heart of east Oxford. In court one defendant said
:08:42. > :08:48."everyone knows everyone", in such a community, did no-one notice the
:08:48. > :08:54.older men with much younger girls? I go to that mosque and I have not,
:08:54. > :09:01.never, ever noticed that these men were doing this. I have been in
:09:01. > :09:04.Oxford for about 25 years. Oxford case is one of a series of
:09:04. > :09:08.high-profile complex grooming cases prosecuted in the last couple of
:09:08. > :09:12.years. In some senses it could be a model for the future. I think that
:09:12. > :09:17.we have just started to open our eyes to the fact that where you
:09:17. > :09:21.have this kind of insidious long- term grooming and abuse, you have
:09:21. > :09:26.to change the way you approach investigation and criminal justice
:09:26. > :09:31.procedures. I'm really, really encouraged and impressed by the way
:09:31. > :09:35.Kier Starmer has approached it, but also the local police and Peter
:09:35. > :09:39.Davies at CEOP, they have grasped it and run with it. We have to have
:09:39. > :09:45.the local police on the ground, our local CPS on the ground also
:09:45. > :09:50.changing their attitudes. Thames Valley Police, out on the Cowley
:09:50. > :09:54.Road in Oxford, looking for exploited girls. Today's verdict
:09:54. > :09:57.showed even if witnesses are vulnerable and inconsistent. Their
:09:57. > :10:01.evidence can convince juries if it shows a clear pattern of behaviour.
:10:01. > :10:06.This is an approach supported by the Director of Public Prosecutions.
:10:06. > :10:10.He's currently working on new guidance for these cases, following
:10:10. > :10:15.a CPS failure to prosecute Jimmy Savile. Barristers say the law
:10:15. > :10:20.doesn't need to be changed and judges and lawyers are well used to
:10:20. > :10:26.the cases now. The problem is not with educating and improving the
:10:26. > :10:33.bar and the judges and solicitors and defence counsel. It is a
:10:33. > :10:37.perception that juries have in relation to, if you like, troubled
:10:37. > :10:41.children, difficult children, naughty children. The bottom line
:10:41. > :10:47.is they can be kids who go out shoplifting, they can be kids that
:10:47. > :10:50.take drugs. But that doesn't mean they haven't been victims of quite
:10:50. > :10:55.serious crimes. So actually they are amongst the most vulnerable
:10:55. > :11:01.that we have to deal with. problem, barristers say, is more
:11:01. > :11:05.one of resources. These are complex, expensive cases for both police and
:11:05. > :11:11.prosecutors, that is why they are rare. Many witnesses said they had
:11:11. > :11:15.found it difficult to come to court, gruel to go face cross-examination.
:11:15. > :11:20.That is what was hard for me was the embarrassment of it. But once
:11:20. > :11:24.you get over that, I'm glad I went to court and I'm glad I stood up
:11:24. > :11:29.against them. They can't do it any more. I know there is other men,
:11:29. > :11:34.but these men can't do it any more, I just hope that it helps other
:11:34. > :11:38.people have the strength to come forward. The Muslim community in
:11:38. > :11:46.Oxford everyone should learn from the case to protect all children.
:11:46. > :11:52.The best way of making our children safer is not to focus on a minority
:11:52. > :11:56.who represent a couple of per cent of perpetrators, but focus on the
:11:56. > :12:02.95% also. Working collectively with the strategy of safeguarding
:12:02. > :12:08.children. But it is an uncomfortable fact that so far the
:12:08. > :12:14.majority of these complex grooming cases have involved Asian, Muslim
:12:14. > :12:17.men and white British girls. Joining me now is Kier Starmer
:12:17. > :12:22.Director of Public Prosecution. Nice of you to come in. When you
:12:22. > :12:27.look at a case like this, what do you see as the problems and the
:12:27. > :12:32.errors? This is one of a number of cases where historically the wrong
:12:32. > :12:38.approach has been taken to the assessment of credibility,
:12:38. > :12:42.assessing whether the victim will be reliable in giving her evidence.
:12:42. > :12:46.At the heart of that problem is a misunderstanding about
:12:46. > :12:51.vulnerability. In the past I think police and prosecutors have focused
:12:51. > :12:55.on vulnerability and seen that as a reason why it is not possible to
:12:56. > :12:58.prosecute the case. What today's verdict shows is that with the
:12:58. > :13:02.right approach, with proper case building you can successfully
:13:02. > :13:06.prosecute these cases. I think the big task for all of us is making
:13:07. > :13:10.sure that the cultural shift that is needed between as it were, the
:13:10. > :13:14.old approach and the new approach, is completed. What happened in this
:13:14. > :13:19.case happens in every case from here on in, that is the really big
:13:19. > :13:24.task. You talk as if this was something that was just not noticed,
:13:24. > :13:29.where as we know that people's attention, police attention had
:13:29. > :13:34.been called to these girls. Why wasn't the man who reported it from
:13:34. > :13:38.the hotel bedsit listened to. Why wasn't the police officer able to
:13:38. > :13:42.prosecute? I don't think it is just about listening. I think the floor
:13:42. > :13:46.in the old approach was this, police and prosecutors looked at
:13:46. > :13:50.the victim and asked themselves whether they came forward and gave
:13:50. > :13:56.a coherent and full account first time, whether they were unaffected
:13:56. > :13:59.by drink or drugs, whether they gone back to the perpetrators, all
:13:59. > :14:02.those questions yielded answers that led police and prosecutors to
:14:02. > :14:06.the wrong conclusion that they wouldn't be reliable. It wasn't
:14:06. > :14:11.simply ignoring it, it was looking at it. It was ignoring, there was a
:14:11. > :14:15.mother of one of the girls, Girl 3 as she is called, who said she
:14:15. > :14:19.turned to every conceivable Oxford service who slammed the door in her
:14:19. > :14:24.face. This was a mother of one of the girls. She had adopted her
:14:24. > :14:28.daughter and was looking for help. I can only obviously answer for the
:14:28. > :14:31.investigation and prosecution of the criminal cases. I'm not for a
:14:31. > :14:34.moment defending the approach that was taken in the past. I think it
:14:34. > :14:37.is fundamentally wrong. That is why we have set out to change it. But
:14:37. > :14:42.it is important to understand that, as it were, the usual tools that
:14:42. > :14:46.the police and prosecutors would use in assessing reliability are
:14:46. > :14:50.useless in this situation. Do those tools need to change. We have heard
:14:50. > :14:55.about the gruelling cross- examination, we know that the
:14:55. > :14:58.defence barrister suggested that Girl 3 had not made a formal
:14:58. > :15:02.complaint at the time of the attack because she was giving a wholly
:15:02. > :15:06.false allegation of rape, "I suggest you are telling lie upon
:15:06. > :15:10.lie because you had been caught by police, naked in a hotel room with
:15:10. > :15:14.man you were not supposed to be with", is it any wonder you can't
:15:14. > :15:18.get young girls to give evidence? The approach has to change. Has it
:15:18. > :15:22.changed? We have done a huge amount of work in the last year. Does that
:15:22. > :15:25.mean telling defence barristers not to use that kind of language to
:15:25. > :15:30.vulnerable victims? The changes are with police and prosecutors. Would
:15:30. > :15:32.you use that language in a court of law, is that normal? I think it is
:15:32. > :15:35.very important that the court environment is one in which people
:15:36. > :15:39.feel they can come forward and give their best evidence. It is not
:15:39. > :15:43.though, is it, it is not a situation, she talked about the
:15:43. > :15:48.shame she was made to feel. We know that there has been a suicide in
:15:48. > :15:51.the past once from another woman who gave her own account of a rape.
:15:51. > :15:54.Something surely should be changing within the courts whilst you are
:15:54. > :15:57.still in charge? I think it is important for us all to sit back
:15:57. > :16:05.and look at the criminal justice process and ask ourself the
:16:05. > :16:09.question whether it does serve these victims in the best possible
:16:09. > :16:14.way. Are you sitting forward or back? We are looking at the issues
:16:14. > :16:17.with police and judges and others. We have an adversarial system, in
:16:17. > :16:21.that system the prosecution puts its best case and the defence,
:16:21. > :16:23.quite rightly, tests and probes that case. There is a debate to be
:16:24. > :16:28.had about whether that environment needs to be changed in some way.
:16:28. > :16:31.I'm absolutely up for having that debate. We do have an adversarial
:16:31. > :16:35.system n that sense it is the duty of the defence to put those points.
:16:35. > :16:40.What we are responsible for is ensuring that those people who do
:16:40. > :16:44.want to come forward feel that they have got the confidence to do so
:16:44. > :16:48.and we are ensuring that their journey through criminal justice is
:16:48. > :16:53.as bearable as it can be. Briefly how many more cases are there like
:16:53. > :16:56.this. You once said there are more likely to be hundreds? Well we're
:16:56. > :16:59.seeing a number of case like this. We have other cases in the pipeline
:16:59. > :17:03.we are bringing to court. I have no doubt that there are other victims
:17:03. > :17:07.out there who have not yet had the confidence to come forward. I hope
:17:07. > :17:12.that cases like this will give them increased confidence and it is our
:17:12. > :17:15.job tone sure that when they do come forward they are -- to ensure
:17:15. > :17:19.that when they do come forward they are treated properly I know there
:17:19. > :17:23.are more who have not the confidence. We are likely to see
:17:23. > :17:26.more cases in the future. Joanna Simmons is head of the
:17:26. > :17:31.Oxfordshire County Council, she joins me now, in a moment we will
:17:31. > :17:35.speak to a member of the scam Ramadan Foundation, and a member of
:17:35. > :17:40.Street UK, an organisation that educates and empowers young people,
:17:40. > :17:50.and we have the Deputy Children's Commissioner. Starting with you
:17:50. > :17:54.
:17:54. > :17:57.Joanna Simmons, years of failings have been revealed in this case.
:17:57. > :18:01.are incredibly sorry we haven't stopped the abuse sooner. Our
:18:01. > :18:04.hearts go to the brave girls giving evidence. We have learned a
:18:04. > :18:07.tremendous amount over the years and we have taken a huge amount of
:18:07. > :18:10.action since the case started. Our social workers have been working
:18:10. > :18:14.alongside the police for the last two years in bringing the case.
:18:14. > :18:18.Let's get to the words of the mother I mentioned, she said she
:18:18. > :18:23.had approached every conceivable Oxford service and doors were
:18:23. > :18:28.slammed in her face. This wasn't a vulnerable girl or a drunken woman
:18:29. > :18:33.or a drug addict, it was a mother seeking help for her daughter,
:18:33. > :18:37.because she suspected this was happening? And I think we tried to
:18:37. > :18:40.support these children and families, clearly we did not do enough. We
:18:40. > :18:44.are very sorry for that. We have learned a lot. Does that astonish
:18:44. > :18:50.you that she went to every conceivable service, I'm quoting
:18:50. > :18:58.her words now and "doors were slammed in her face "? These are
:18:58. > :19:01.really tricky, difficult situations. We understand more about the
:19:01. > :19:05.grooming process that we didn't understand seven or eight years ago.
:19:05. > :19:08.She understood it and went to get help? All I can do is apologise if
:19:08. > :19:11.we didn't listen or do enough. We are doing huge amounts more now.
:19:11. > :19:14.There are clearly very big issues in supporting whole families in
:19:14. > :19:19.this. It is about the children, it is also about parents. One of the
:19:19. > :19:26.things we are trying to do is raise awareness right across the
:19:26. > :19:30.comounity. You have been in charge at Oxfordshire since 2005, do you
:19:30. > :19:32.take responsibility for what happened on your watch? All of us
:19:32. > :19:36.take enormous responsibility for what happened. This is the worst
:19:36. > :19:39.thing I have come across in 30 years in local Government. Families
:19:39. > :19:42.are sitting at home thinking you and your organisation have
:19:43. > :19:47.seriously let down these girls being raped and raped and traffiked
:19:47. > :19:52.and sold and drugged, under your watch. They were vulnerable girls
:19:52. > :19:56.and you were at the heart of those social services, should you resign?
:19:56. > :20:00.I have asked myself some very hard questions about that. There is
:20:00. > :20:05.going to be an independent serious case review which will look at the
:20:05. > :20:08.actions of all the agencies concerned. What is your gut
:20:08. > :20:13.feeling? My gut feeling is not to resign because my determination is
:20:13. > :20:16.to do all we can to take action to stamp it out. If the families put
:20:16. > :20:19.that to you and said they don't feel confident with you in charge
:20:19. > :20:25.of the services that are meant to be supporting our children, would
:20:25. > :20:28.you re-think that? Clearly families concerned. What we are doing though
:20:28. > :20:33.which is really important is trying to make sure that we tackle this
:20:33. > :20:36.for the future. We have a joint unit with the police, we have
:20:36. > :20:40.trained 2,500 staff across Oxfordshire. We are raising
:20:40. > :20:44.awareness for 12,000 schoolchildren. We need to take the action to stamp
:20:44. > :20:47.this out. These are devious crimes, they are very complicated. We are
:20:47. > :20:51.absolutely determined, all of us, I'm completely determined that we
:20:51. > :20:55.do all we can to stop this happening in the future.
:20:55. > :20:59.I want to come to you now, there has been a lot of focus, as we saw
:20:59. > :21:04.in the piece, on the race question in this case, is there anything in
:21:04. > :21:10.that? The findings from our two- year inquiry, which is two-thirds
:21:11. > :21:15.of the way through now into who are the victims across England? Who are
:21:15. > :21:18.the perpetrators? Where it is happening and in what way? They are
:21:18. > :21:22.incontravertable, they are that this appalling crime of sexual
:21:22. > :21:29.exploitation is taking place across every single community in England.
:21:29. > :21:32.We have found no exceptions to that. So the verdicts today are in a set
:21:32. > :21:36.of circumstances that are beyond belief in terms of the levels of
:21:36. > :21:39.savagry, and the courage of the victims coming forward is quite
:21:39. > :21:44.extraordinary. You think there is no question of race or cultural
:21:44. > :21:49.religion in this? We are evidence, our evidence is that people from
:21:49. > :21:54.every ethnic group are engaging in forms of sexual exploitation. This
:21:54. > :22:00.is one model and whether there are particular facets to this model
:22:00. > :22:02.requires further evidence gathering. But there are models of violent
:22:03. > :22:12.sexual exploitation, including by children on other children taking
:22:13. > :22:15.
:22:15. > :22:21.place all over the place. I think it is important to recognise as we
:22:21. > :22:23.have Tia Sharp's step grandfather being sent to jail, and we have all
:22:23. > :22:26.other cases, they affect all communities. It is important as
:22:26. > :22:30.members of the Pakistani community to recognise we have a problem.
:22:30. > :22:33.There are some criminals who think white girls are worthless and think
:22:33. > :22:36.they can be used and abused in this abhorrent way. I have been
:22:36. > :22:40.following this kaifplts as a society we have to all take some
:22:40. > :22:50.responsibility and try to come down to what the real reasons are.
:22:50. > :22:51.
:22:51. > :22:55.do you think those are? As I have said there are some people who
:22:55. > :22:58.think white girls are worthless. There are Asian victims who haven't
:22:58. > :23:03.come forward and give evidence too. It affects all communities. We have
:23:03. > :23:05.to be very careful in the language we use. We as members of the
:23:05. > :23:09.Pakistani community have a responsibility to speak out.
:23:09. > :23:17.Anybody who has followed this trial and the facts of this case, as a
:23:17. > :23:20.parent, all of us we should be horrified by it and there should be
:23:20. > :23:25.not hiding place for these evil men in our communities. Would you go
:23:25. > :23:28.that far? I think it is important to recognise there is a problem in
:23:28. > :23:33.the Pakistani community. Just as has been said it is a problem which
:23:33. > :23:36.I think is actually a global problem. I think it is a crisis of
:23:36. > :23:41.masculinity. What we are having is a profound problem across the whole
:23:41. > :23:44.of society where men no longer now how to respect and value women. We
:23:44. > :23:47.find increased sexual violence being perpetrated against women and
:23:47. > :23:51.children. One of the things that we found in our work with young men
:23:51. > :23:54.from all backgrounds, black, white, Asian, Muslim, non-Muslim is that
:23:54. > :23:58.there is this profound disrespect culture. There is a rape culture
:23:58. > :24:02.that has developed, where rape is seen as something trivial. People
:24:02. > :24:07.even talk about it in a very trivial sense, "we are going to
:24:07. > :24:11.rape that girl", "we are going to abuse that girl". What is the root
:24:11. > :24:14.cause for that change and the lack of masculinity now? I think we have
:24:14. > :24:17.gone back decades in terms of basic values and human rights around
:24:17. > :24:22.respecting women. One of the factors, amongst many factors is
:24:22. > :24:26.the fact that young men now are immerseing themselves in watching
:24:26. > :24:31.violent, degrading, humiliating pornography, often the genre is
:24:32. > :24:35.about rape. Young men their primary educator is the street, is the
:24:35. > :24:38.internet, and these really negative role models involved in organised
:24:38. > :24:43.crime groups on the street. We are not even engaging young men at all.
:24:43. > :24:49.If we want to be preventive we have got to get into schools as young as
:24:49. > :24:54.9, 10, 11. We have found young Patfull earns of young men grooming
:24:54. > :24:58.girls in school that age T has become a paradigm for these young
:24:59. > :25:04.men to groom in that way. Do you think you are able to get to these
:25:04. > :25:07.young men before the Internet does? Well, clearly not. One of the
:25:07. > :25:13.things we are going to be talking to Government about over the next
:25:13. > :25:16.few weeks that we actually want much more focused PSHE lessons in
:25:16. > :25:21.schools, where people feel from within the primary phase that it is
:25:21. > :25:24.possible to talk about things like pornography. How to build
:25:24. > :25:28.resilience in young children in terms of what they are looking at
:25:28. > :25:32.on the Internet. It is very, very important to do that. At the same
:25:32. > :25:36.time I would say we actually don't know if what's happening today is
:25:36. > :25:40.worse than in previous eras, simply because the evidence has not been
:25:40. > :25:44.identified before. So the work that we did in the office of the
:25:44. > :25:48.Children's Commissioner last year in terms of identifying prif lens
:25:48. > :25:51.is the first time a baseline has -- prevalence is the first time a
:25:51. > :25:55.baseline has ever been set. There was a voice in the film that said
:25:55. > :25:58.it is about shame, it is about covering up particularly within a
:25:58. > :26:02.Muslim culture, a Pakistani community, and yet the point that
:26:02. > :26:09.we have just heard is actually that it is everywhere, that actually it
:26:10. > :26:13.is more acceptable and that rape is being seen as soon as you are two
:26:13. > :26:18.clicks away. What do you think? have been campaigning against this
:26:18. > :26:20.since 2006, when I first started I was a lone voice within the
:26:20. > :26:24.Pakistani community and wider society. Actual lie I think the
:26:24. > :26:33.catalyst was Rochdale, where people have now started taking this
:26:33. > :26:38.seriously. When Jack Straw made his comments did you find it offensive
:26:38. > :26:41.or helpful? I found it offensive, because Jack Straw is former
:26:41. > :26:45.justice and Home Secretary who did nothing in Government, then he made
:26:45. > :26:48.it fleeting statement that haornished the whole community. I
:26:48. > :26:52.take my responsibility very seriously as does my community. I
:26:52. > :26:55.think it is now time for those agencies that have failed these
:26:55. > :26:59.children. The catalyst, and I think those agencies have got to take
:26:59. > :27:03.some responsibility. Quickly, I will ask you this while Kier
:27:03. > :27:06.Starmer is here, Kier Starmer's tenure will end in October, what
:27:06. > :27:11.are the most essential, critical things he can do before leaving
:27:11. > :27:14.office? Happily he has begun to do them. He has made extremely strong
:27:14. > :27:18.statements about the importance of believing children when they come
:27:18. > :27:21.forward. Children don't make neat disclosures, that is not how it
:27:21. > :27:23.works. When information begins to come out from them, people have to
:27:23. > :27:27.believe them, the police have to believe them, the local authorities
:27:27. > :27:31.have to believe them. To the credit of Oxfordshire County Council, I
:27:31. > :27:35.heard what you said earlier, and Thames Valley Police, despite the
:27:35. > :27:38.failings initially, once they got going they really devoted
:27:38. > :27:46.tremendous resources to seeing this case through. Thank you very much
:27:46. > :27:50.all of you. In a moment, will the Angelina-
:27:50. > :27:53.effect now go as far as the operating table.
:27:53. > :27:59.Relaxed, as the Government insists it is on all issues Europe,
:27:59. > :28:02.tomorrow may be an uncomfortable watch as up to 100 Tory MPs sign an
:28:02. > :28:05.amendment to their Government's own Queen's Speech. Some of the
:28:05. > :28:10.criticism facing the PM is he refuses to spell out what he's
:28:10. > :28:14.trying to renegotiate. Tonight we explore one of the key issues, the
:28:14. > :28:18.Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, every family pays about �400 a year
:28:18. > :28:21.to subsidise farmers. How do we want it spent and what kind of
:28:21. > :28:31.countryside do we want for our money. We report on attempts to
:28:31. > :28:34.
:28:34. > :28:44.make Europe a more and grown and pleasant land. Dawn on the river
:28:44. > :28:47.
:28:47. > :28:51.Shannon. We are heading for Inish Island, flooded in the summer. As
:28:51. > :28:57.the common agricultural policy has paid farmers to intensify
:28:57. > :29:03.production, wildlife elsewhere has been driven out. Here is never
:29:03. > :29:07.ploughed, never sprayed. So what's the balance of priorities under the
:29:07. > :29:14.CAP, protecting the environment more? Or supporting farmers and
:29:14. > :29:20.food production? That debate is under way right now. This is about
:29:20. > :29:24.how Europe produces food for itself and how we impact on global food
:29:24. > :29:28.security issues in the future. In my view the biggest challenge for
:29:28. > :29:31.my generation and decision and policy makers is how to Feed The
:29:32. > :29:35.World without destroying the planet. We are seeing a billion euro a week
:29:35. > :29:39.to be paid to farmers to do very little. It is some things, it is
:29:39. > :29:42.very well, we need to up the ante in what we are asking. This is
:29:42. > :29:52.public money, it needs to be paid in exchange for delivery of public
:29:52. > :29:57.goods. This rough pasture is how much of Europe used to work. Across
:29:57. > :30:02.other parts of Ireland birds and wild flowers have disappeared, as
:30:02. > :30:06.farming intensified. Anja Murray from BirdWatch tells me some bird
:30:06. > :30:11.species are down nearly 90%. make a hollow in the ground and the
:30:11. > :30:16.eggs are tucked in there. If you have a lot of cattle they get
:30:16. > :30:22.trampled easily. We have got a lot of birds, a lot of biodiversity,
:30:22. > :30:26.and pollenators pollinating insects. None of this is in intensively
:30:26. > :30:32.managed grassland. Yet most of the payments using public money are
:30:32. > :30:36.allocated towards the more intensive low- managed grassland.
:30:36. > :30:39.Farmers �50 billion a year in subsidies, based mainly on an
:30:39. > :30:44.historic system of how much food they produce. The European
:30:44. > :30:47.Commission now wants to shift the balance of subsidies towards
:30:47. > :30:52.proebgt iting the environment more -- protecting the environment more.
:30:52. > :30:55.It says farmers should earn 30% of their subsidies by obeying
:30:55. > :31:05.environmental laws, increasing crop diversity, preserving pasture and
:31:05. > :31:11.
:31:12. > :31:21.leaving space for wildlife. The plans would mean less support
:31:22. > :31:24.
:31:24. > :31:28.for intensive food production in places like Ireland. Joe Parlon is
:31:28. > :31:32.dairy farmer in County Offaly, he agrees with protecting the
:31:32. > :31:37.environment. He says rewarding the farmers who produce most food is
:31:37. > :31:42.essential. Production is vitally important for Ireland as a country
:31:42. > :31:46.as well. Farmers definitely are an endangered species. A lot of those
:31:46. > :31:50.farmers are not making big profits n fact very small profits. The
:31:50. > :31:58.problem we have, if you take the funding away from the people that
:31:58. > :32:03.are producing the food they will go out of business. The CAP has
:32:03. > :32:08.typically defended farmers' interests. But production supsidies
:32:08. > :32:16.in the past distorted global markets, led to milk lakes and
:32:16. > :32:20.butter mountains. The new approach, the called "greening" of the CAP,
:32:20. > :32:24.aims to deliver what it calls public goods for public money. The
:32:24. > :32:28.fundamental question here is what constitutes public good? To
:32:28. > :32:32.environmentalists it means it is safeguarding the soil, air, water,
:32:32. > :32:36.wildlife. To farmers it means something rather different. It
:32:36. > :32:42.means keeping producing food in living communities in an
:32:42. > :32:46.economically viable landscape. You There is a row between the
:32:46. > :32:51.commission, Governments and MEPs about how far to shift subsidies
:32:52. > :32:56.away from production towards benefiting the environment. The man
:32:56. > :33:01.leading negotiations tells us he's supporting production. Some people
:33:01. > :33:04.would like us to go further, but there is a food production system
:33:04. > :33:08.through agriculture in the European Union, which in my view is probably
:33:08. > :33:10.the most sustainable anywhere in the world. And we have also
:33:10. > :33:19.maintained rural communities in way that other parts of the world
:33:19. > :33:28.haven't done so. Orthodox Easter Monday in Pissouri village square
:33:28. > :33:31.in Cyprus. The dances remind locals of their links to the land. Just as
:33:31. > :33:40.cultural traditions vary from village-to-village throughout the
:33:40. > :33:43.continent, so do soil types, climates, pharmacies thems. -- farm
:33:44. > :33:47.systems. The complexity is the nightmare for rule makers in
:33:47. > :33:53.Brussels. This community for one, can't face the changes the EU is
:33:53. > :34:00.demanding. Brussels is trying to impose a one-size-fits-all policy
:34:00. > :34:05.on farmers across the continent, easy to understand and hard to
:34:05. > :34:09.cheap. You will find all over Europe farmers adapting the system
:34:09. > :34:15.and moulding it to their purposes and they risk undermining the whole
:34:15. > :34:17.project. Greening the CAP means looking at water use. Under the
:34:17. > :34:25.proposals farmers won't receive public supsidies unless they use
:34:25. > :34:30.water wisely. Farmers Cyprus have pumped so much water from
:34:30. > :34:36.underground aqua fares, that sea water has been sucked into them.
:34:36. > :34:41.There is fear the water stores will be wrecked as farmers carry on.
:34:41. > :34:46.problem in southern Europe, in the Mediterranean region, in Cyprus, is
:34:46. > :34:50.that we are dealing with peak water situations, where demand exceeds
:34:50. > :34:55.the available supply. When they are facing this situation we have to
:34:55. > :35:05.have regulation and water. Measures that are strong maybe not so good
:35:05. > :35:11.for farming. This is bad news for fautfautfaut. For 45 years he has
:35:12. > :35:17.been -- Anthony Fauci, for 45 years he has been maximising his crop by
:35:17. > :35:21.spraying it. It wastes lots of water. But changing it would mean
:35:21. > :35:26.ripping up his traditional vineyard and starting again with a new
:35:26. > :35:30.system and a big bank loan. TRANSLATION: If they force us to
:35:30. > :35:34.change the way we farm and use water, there will be no future for
:35:34. > :35:44.people like me. I know how to change, but I don't have the money
:35:44. > :35:45.
:35:45. > :35:49.or the years. For me it is finished. The greening plan is technically
:35:49. > :35:54.possible. My grandfather, my father, were farmers in this area. Georgios
:35:54. > :36:02.Theophanous, who farms nearby, has a drip irrigation system. It uses
:36:02. > :36:05.only a sixth as much water. But the framework is very expensive. He and
:36:05. > :36:11.his drips would survive the Brussels reform, many others,
:36:11. > :36:20.particularly older farmers simply won't. Brussels now are pushing to
:36:20. > :36:25.stop using the underground water completely. This is for us a way
:36:25. > :36:33.they are pushing us to abandon agriculture in general. All these
:36:33. > :36:39.farmers will immediately find themselves out of a job. This sort
:36:39. > :36:42.of pressure from farmers has made it politically impossible for
:36:42. > :36:48.Cyprus and other Mediterranean countries to back the Brussels
:36:48. > :36:54.reform on water. In other parts of Europe the greening plans seem to
:36:54. > :36:59.have missed some key environmental objectives all together. These are
:36:59. > :37:04.the Cambridgeshire fens, thanks to drainage, wind erosion and
:37:04. > :37:14.intensive farming, the soil is steadily disappearing. Some of
:37:14. > :37:14.
:37:14. > :37:18.Europe's soil is literally blowing away. Rickson Vic is Professor of
:37:18. > :37:24.Soil Erosion at Canfield University. She says the importance of soil
:37:24. > :37:29.stretches far beyond providing food. Tell me about the soil? There is so
:37:29. > :37:34.many pressures on soil, we need more fuel and viey rules and get
:37:34. > :37:38.more out of the joil soils but damaging them less. We need to make
:37:38. > :37:43.sure they are a habitat for biodiversity, that we can store
:37:43. > :37:46.carbon and water, very important in droughts and so on. Whilst we have
:37:47. > :37:50.created a very, very good agricultural soil, it is very
:37:50. > :37:54.precarious, it is very vulnerable to things like wind erosion.
:37:54. > :37:57.CAP reform is supposed to be greening the CAP. Is there evidence
:37:57. > :38:01.it will protect our soil? We have some soil protection already on the
:38:01. > :38:06.table. But certainly those measures that they are proposing under the
:38:06. > :38:12.greening of the CAP, I'm not convinced they will protect our
:38:12. > :38:17.soils any better. So, if it can't be sure to protect wildlife, or
:38:17. > :38:21.save water, or soil, is the greening reform likely to be green
:38:21. > :38:25.at all. You can't expect greening mechanisms to solve everything.
:38:25. > :38:29.Everybody will have to compromise. Some countries are driven by, you
:38:29. > :38:33.know, the environmental concerns. Others are driven by keeping
:38:33. > :38:36.farmers on the land and keeping family farms intact. Others are
:38:36. > :38:45.driven by keeping rural landscape intact. Others are driven because
:38:45. > :38:48.they have a very strong farming lobby. So what you have is
:38:48. > :38:51.different players with different priorities all coming to the table
:38:51. > :38:55.with different requests. The challenge for the Irish presidency
:38:55. > :39:04.is to try to pull all of that together and try to find
:39:04. > :39:07.compromises that everybody can live with. Europe lives with an
:39:07. > :39:13.agricultural subsidy system too complicated for most mortals to
:39:13. > :39:17.understand. In coming weeks there will be ruthless horse trading as
:39:17. > :39:20.politicians try to strike the best deal for their own farmers. It is
:39:20. > :39:29.looking more likely that the commission's plans for the greening
:39:29. > :39:33.of the CAP will be a much lighter shade of green.
:39:33. > :39:37.When the world's most beautiful woman admits she has taken a step
:39:37. > :39:40.that would horrify the average female, what impact is it likely to
:39:40. > :39:44.have? Angelina Jolie wrote in the New York Times that she chose to
:39:44. > :39:47.have a double mastectomy, she was carrying the gene that can lead to
:39:48. > :39:51.breast cancer. It raises the question how far pre-emptive
:39:51. > :40:01.surgery can and should go. What happens when a superstar casts a
:40:01. > :40:12.
:40:12. > :40:15.spotlight on cancer? The disease killed Jolie's mother
:40:15. > :40:25.when she was just 56. Contributing to Jolie's decision to opt for
:40:25. > :40:26.
:40:26. > :40:31.genetic testing. She was the woman I relate to who had that elegance
:40:31. > :40:35.and strength through just knowing what was right. Jolie admits the
:40:35. > :40:39.decision was a tough one. But says the operation means she can now
:40:39. > :40:43.reassure her children that they won't lose her to breast cancer.
:40:43. > :40:48.Jolie said she wrote about her own experience to raise awareness of
:40:48. > :40:53.the risks of genetic breast cancer and to encourage other women to get
:40:53. > :40:56.tested, knowing they had strong options. Doctors may now see an
:40:56. > :41:06.Angelina-effect in the waiting room if this A-Lister has as much impact
:41:06. > :41:07.
:41:07. > :41:11.as usual. With me now is Claire Whittaker, a mother of two who
:41:11. > :41:14.chose also a double mastectomy two years ago. And Anthony Howell, a
:41:14. > :41:20.cancer specialist in south Manchester. Tell us how you arrived
:41:20. > :41:26.at your course of action, Claire, was it a similar story? Yes, it was
:41:26. > :41:30.very similar. I, my father had died of cancer, my sister had discovered
:41:30. > :41:35.she had breast cancer. Numerous family members had basically died
:41:35. > :41:41.of breast cancer. So I was referred to the genetics department and had
:41:41. > :41:45.a blood test that in November 2010 revealed that I also had the BRACA
:41:45. > :41:51.2 gene mutations. Did it become a very simple choice for you at that
:41:51. > :41:56.point? It was, actually. At that time my children are now six and
:41:56. > :42:03.four, they were aged four and two then. My priority was just to stay
:42:03. > :42:06.alive and to try to bypass breast cancer and very quickly I
:42:06. > :42:10.appreciated that although on the outside it can seem a terrifying
:42:10. > :42:17.prospect to be told you have this gene, what you are actually told is
:42:17. > :42:21.you have been given the opportunity to not get cancer. To bypass cancer.
:42:21. > :42:24.Professor Howlett, when you hear Claire's story it sounds like a no-
:42:24. > :42:28.brainer, is this the only course of action? No it is not the only
:42:28. > :42:31.course of action. There are two courses of action really. The first
:42:31. > :42:38.course of action is to get tested. Because I think it is better to
:42:38. > :42:42.know rather than not to know. And then in our experience at the
:42:42. > :42:50.Genesis Centre in south Manchester, where we focus on this sort of
:42:50. > :42:56.issue is half the women decide to have risk-reducing surgery, the
:42:56. > :43:03.other half elect to have enhanced screening. So we use magnetic
:43:03. > :43:07.imaging, and mammographey so they are screened every six months.
:43:07. > :43:12.there any difference in the risk? We are not absolutely sure. We
:43:12. > :43:17.think probably not. But we are not total he loo sure. So there are
:43:17. > :43:20.woman who have had really bad family histories, mother died,
:43:20. > :43:24.sister died of cancer, and then they are screened and then they
:43:24. > :43:30.find something wrong on the screen. That really tips the balance very
:43:30. > :43:36.often. I can't stand this any more, I want to have surgery, please.
:43:36. > :43:42.went from a 90% risk to a 2% risk. It is extraordinary when you put
:43:42. > :43:46.the statistics on it. You sort of came to meet your disease before it
:43:46. > :43:51.was there? Yes. I think having a very high probability and being
:43:51. > :43:55.told that you are so likely to get that, I can only really relate it
:43:55. > :43:58.being told would you get on an aeroplane knowing that aeroplane
:43:58. > :44:03.had an 80% chance it was going to crash. I couldn't just get on that
:44:03. > :44:11.aeroplane. I had to take preventive measures. It was a no-brainer for
:44:11. > :44:15.me, really. How far do you think we will go 0 in terms of preventive --
:44:15. > :44:19.in terms of preventive medicine. There are other cancers you could
:44:19. > :44:23.avoid, you could have your spleen removed, I assume, could you?
:44:23. > :44:30.don't think it would do much good. You could have your spleen removed.
:44:30. > :44:36.Not the greatest example, but you can't have your lunges removed to
:44:36. > :44:46.have a -- lungs removed to prevent lung cancer, you can have your
:44:46. > :44:46.
:44:46. > :44:54.ovaries and your womb removed. These genes the Barca 1 and 2 genes
:44:54. > :44:58.are associated with ovarian cancer. Women around the age of 40-45 have
:44:58. > :45:03.their ovaries removed. Ovarian cancer creeps up on you. Most women
:45:03. > :45:07.have their ovaries removed in this situation. Only about half have
:45:07. > :45:12.their breast tissue removed. Claire, when somebody like Angelina Jolie
:45:12. > :45:17.comes out, is that a game-changer in terms of how people will
:45:17. > :45:21.perceive this now? Do you think she has an obligation to speak out?
:45:21. > :45:26.think it felt awful this morning in a sense I can have my mother head
:45:26. > :45:29.on and think how awful that she has had to go through these decisions.
:45:29. > :45:35.Then I can also feel I'm so grateful to her, because my
:45:35. > :45:38.priority is to protect the next generation. To try to support
:45:38. > :45:42.Genesis Research projects, and to make sure we understand more and
:45:42. > :45:47.more about these genetic breast cancers. I have two children with a
:45:47. > :45:51.50% chance that they will also have inherited this gene. So for her to
:45:51. > :45:56.come out as this amazingingly beautiful lady who has had a
:45:56. > :46:00.mastectomy. And I think will show the world that a mastectomy isn't
:46:00. > :46:04.as Carey as it initially sound, you can still be feminine and beautiful
:46:04. > :46:07.and save your life. I think the important thing is women have to
:46:07. > :46:11.have choice. You don't have to have mastectomy if you have a faulty
:46:11. > :46:16.gene. You can elect for increased screening. You have to allow the
:46:16. > :46:23.woman to do what she want to do. She mustn't been forced by Angelina
:46:23. > :46:28.down this route. Do you think there is a risk of that? Possibly. It is
:46:28. > :46:32.the woman's choice. She makes the choice not the doctor. It is her
:46:32. > :46:37.and her partner. The partner is obviously very important as well.
:46:37. > :46:40.So we must keep a balance here. But the important thing is to make the
:46:40. > :46:44.diagnostic tests in the first place. The important thing is to go when
:46:44. > :46:48.you do have a family history of breast cancer is to go to your GP
:46:48. > :46:51.and say look I want to be referred to those guys down the road. Thank
:46:51. > :46:56.you both very much indeed. I really appreciate you coming in. Just time
:46:56. > :47:01.to take you through a cop of the papers for tomorrow. Before we go.
:47:01. > :47:07.-- a couple of the papers for tomorrow. Before we go we have that
:47:07. > :47:11.story on the papers, and the a story about the victims of the sex
:47:11. > :47:14.gang. The Mail have the story about BP
:47:14. > :47:17.and Shell investigated over allegations that they have fixed