:00:12. > :00:19.$:/STARTFEED.. The most powerful politician in Britain didn't even
:00:19. > :00:22.command the support of half of his own MPs tonight. Almost half the
:00:22. > :00:27.Conservative parliamentary party tried to wreck a law that would
:00:28. > :00:32.allow gay people marry one another. They failed but their defiance
:00:32. > :00:38.showed the chasam between the leadership and the supposed swivel-
:00:38. > :00:42.eyed loans they command. We have been to check the grassroots.
:00:42. > :00:45.have spent the day looking Conservative activists here in
:00:45. > :00:49.Clacton straight in the way, I can report there is not a swiveller
:00:49. > :00:54.among them. We talk to MPs and party members united in
:00:54. > :00:58.Conservatism, divided in what that means. What is the point of
:00:58. > :01:04.spending public money for this sort of thing? The latest British
:01:04. > :01:08.spaceman is here to tell us what he's going to do for month in space.
:01:08. > :01:11.Remember the blind Chinese dissident who escaped house arrest
:01:11. > :01:15.and took refuge in the US embassy last year. He will tell us what
:01:15. > :01:20.happened next. And they talk of him as one of the
:01:20. > :01:23.great modern American novelists. He has a new book out after a gap of
:01:23. > :01:33.30 years, what took so long? didn't realise you were waiting, of
:01:33. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :01:38.course. So, a bill which would make gay
:01:38. > :01:41.marriage in England and Wales legal has been supported by the House of
:01:41. > :01:45.Commons after a deal between the Tory leadership, the Lib Dems and
:01:45. > :01:49.Labour tonight. But the outcome of the votes tonight is less the issue
:01:49. > :01:53.than the depth of the split in the Conservative Party. And the state
:01:53. > :01:58.of David Cameron's leadership. What with this and Europe and his tennis
:01:59. > :02:02.pal accused of calling the men and women who get the party elected
:02:02. > :02:05.swivel-eyed loons, the Prime Minister looks increasingly like a
:02:05. > :02:10.man going mine detecting by stamping his foot on the ground.
:02:10. > :02:14.Having made such a big deal over the issue of gay marriage, David
:02:14. > :02:17.Cameron didn't even turn up to speak in the debate today. We will
:02:17. > :02:23.explain where we are. First of all the vote? The Government got its
:02:23. > :02:28.way. An amendment that was seen as a grubby deal by some Conservative
:02:28. > :02:32.oppon nepts of same-sex marriage -- opponents of same-sex marriage got
:02:32. > :02:34.through with the support of Labour and the Liberal Democrats. Only 70
:02:34. > :02:38.Conservatives voted for another amendment. Let me give you
:02:38. > :02:41.background to all of that. This is all very complicated for the simple
:02:41. > :02:46.reason there was no simple way for defeating the Government on the
:02:46. > :02:52.main issue. Instead a group of Conservative opponents of same-sex
:02:52. > :03:01.marriage coalesced around this idea of extending civil partnerships
:03:01. > :03:07.from same-sex couples to hetrosexual couples. It would have
:03:07. > :03:12.added millions to the bill and the law would have been defeated. It
:03:12. > :03:16.was a spirited debate, this is what went on. Whether young or old or
:03:16. > :03:19.deeply religious or assertively secular. There are real views and
:03:19. > :03:22.concerns. Depending on polling and the question you ask you come out
:03:23. > :03:26.with a different figure before origins. The nation is as divided
:03:26. > :03:32.as the Conservative parliamentary party on this. We picked an issue
:03:32. > :03:36.we are very much in touch with the nation by showing our division.
:03:36. > :03:41.What we need to do is ensure at the very least that we properly protect
:03:41. > :03:44.those who don't agree with the state in the way they want to
:03:44. > :03:48.redefine marriage. I feel the playing field is not being levelled,
:03:48. > :03:52.I believe the pendulum is now swinging so far the other way and
:03:52. > :03:59.there are plenty in the aggressive homosexual community who see this
:03:59. > :04:05.as but a stepping stone to something even further. What if a
:04:05. > :04:08.registrar were to turn down an application for someone who got
:04:08. > :04:12.married on terms of race, what would we think about that. Is it
:04:13. > :04:17.the position of my honourable friends or any honourable member in
:04:17. > :04:22.the House that registrar should be free to do so. If it is not, and I
:04:22. > :04:26.hear a deafening silence, why do we think they should be free to do it
:04:26. > :04:30.in relation to same-sex marriage, when that same-sex marriage will be
:04:30. > :04:34.lawful, according to the bill. He's not just got problems with
:04:35. > :04:38.some of his own backbenchers, but also his grassroots? Indeed, the
:04:38. > :04:42.problems today we concentrated on are in the chamber. Over the
:04:42. > :04:47.weekend these disobliging remarks by somebody allegedly close to
:04:47. > :04:51.David Cameron talking about the grassroots activists being swivel-
:04:52. > :04:55.eyed loons, such as their interest in things like same-sex marriage.
:04:55. > :05:00.David Cameron has written an e-mail tonight to try to quieten them down.
:05:00. > :05:06.I have been in Clacton on sea to try to gauge the opinion of
:05:06. > :05:10.activists. I found a lot of people disaaffected with the leaderful of
:05:10. > :05:15.the -- disaffected with the leadership of the Conservative
:05:15. > :05:20.Party now. In this area the Conservative Party party are
:05:20. > :05:25.bucking one trend. They are growing. It helps to have an MP unafraid to
:05:25. > :05:31.challenge the party leadership, even so they are not completely
:05:31. > :05:33.happy. Yesterday a letter was delivered to thepm signed by 34
:05:33. > :05:38.local chairman complaining about the policy of same-sex marriage.
:05:38. > :05:42.But, more than that, accusing the leadership of treating the
:05:42. > :05:46.membership with contempt. Today back in her Clacton office, it was
:05:46. > :05:51.very clear her sense of anger and disappointment hadn't diminished
:05:51. > :05:57.any. I actually do believe that a number of people in central
:05:57. > :06:02.Government at the moment are totally, totally unaware of what
:06:02. > :06:09.the real issues are, the things that people are really experiencing.
:06:09. > :06:13.What their concerns are, the struggle that people have. You know,
:06:13. > :06:19.and I don't think it helps. This is very much a personal thing, which I
:06:19. > :06:22.have picked up from lots of members. It doesn't help that our Prime
:06:22. > :06:28.Minister doesn't seem to learn from some of the feedback he's getting.
:06:28. > :06:33.When you hear the terms that some allegedly, although they deny it,
:06:33. > :06:38.use about people like you in private, what do you think about
:06:38. > :06:44.those? Are you refrbg to the alleged comment that was made.
:06:44. > :06:49.Referring to the alleged comment made. I didn't want to mention it
:06:49. > :06:52.but "swivel-eyed loons"! Hopefully I have a sense of humour and I have
:06:52. > :06:58.been called worse in my time. However, if I believed that to be
:06:58. > :07:01.true. That they said it? Yes, and if there was any truth in it
:07:01. > :07:04.whatsoever I would be absolutely appalled. To show me this wasn't
:07:04. > :07:10.just a personal issue, she introduced me to some Clacton
:07:10. > :07:15.Conservatives of the same view. The venue very different from the Blue
:07:15. > :07:20.Boar Smokehouse in Westminster, where the "swivel-eyed" comments
:07:21. > :07:24.were made. When you hear these comments what do you think of it?
:07:24. > :07:29.When the people make them is it genuine or is it something said off
:07:29. > :07:33.the spot, is it something you wish you could take back. You know I
:07:33. > :07:37.would say that you respect opinion regardless of what it is. People
:07:37. > :07:41.are entitled to their view. Comments like that are probably not
:07:41. > :07:45.helping things. But people say them and that's their freedom of speech.
:07:45. > :07:50.It certainly doesn't help things. think sometimes they are trying to
:07:50. > :07:54.grab the headlines. I don't think it helps, especially at grassroots.
:07:54. > :07:57.We are very hard working here. Those sorts of comments aren't very
:07:57. > :08:04.good. Do you feel like you are in the same party as David Cameron?
:08:04. > :08:08.Sometimes, yes, sometimes no. It depends how his particular message
:08:08. > :08:12.on certain issues. The question all political parties wrestle with is
:08:12. > :08:17.this. How do you hang on to your core voters and still attract
:08:17. > :08:21.enough new voters to make some progress come election time? The
:08:21. > :08:24.assumption behind that calculation is often this, that your core
:08:24. > :08:29.supporters have nowhere else to go. They are loyal, they will keep
:08:29. > :08:35.voting for you election after election. If that was ever a true
:08:35. > :08:39.assumption, it is not any more. Ron used to be a Conservative Party
:08:39. > :08:43.constituency association chairman as well as a councillor. Now he
:08:43. > :08:46.bats for UKIP. How does the gay marriage issue play with voters
:08:46. > :08:49.that were Conservative or are Conservative? I think it plays a
:08:49. > :08:55.really, really big part. Not just because of the gay marriage issue,
:08:55. > :08:59.but because of the way he did it. He has no mandate to do it. He
:08:59. > :09:02.didn't get feedback from the party at grassroots or party members. He
:09:02. > :09:07.said they carried out a survey and that the survey showed that the
:09:07. > :09:12.majority of people were in favour of it. That just isn't true. And he
:09:12. > :09:15.knew it. Back at the chippy, the local Conservative chair is clear
:09:15. > :09:19.what's causing the UKIP vote to swell. It is for the basic reason
:09:19. > :09:22.that they are still sticking a little bit to their right-wing
:09:22. > :09:26.attitudes, if I'm frank with you. That is the only possible thing I
:09:26. > :09:30.can think of. They are outflanking you on the right? I think so. I
:09:30. > :09:35.think we have probably veered too much to the left. It is not just
:09:35. > :09:39.here in Clacton that the Tories are facing this challenge. Tonight an
:09:39. > :09:43.internet poll may worry David Cameron. UKIP on 22%, just two
:09:44. > :09:48.points behind the Conservatives. We will be talking to some
:09:48. > :09:54.Conservative MPs shortly, with me now are two Conservative activists,
:09:54. > :09:58.the councillor Mary Douglas and Binita Mehta. Mary Douglas, you are
:09:58. > :10:02.in Wiltshire, are you finding UKIP on the march there because of the
:10:02. > :10:06.issues like gay marriage? Yes, we have just had the local council
:10:06. > :10:10.elections, there are several Conservatives who would have been
:10:10. > :10:13.councillors now had it not been UKIP in their patch. In my own
:10:13. > :10:17.division there was no UKIP candidate, nonetheless there were
:10:17. > :10:23.several people on the doorstep who were desperate to vote for one and
:10:23. > :10:27.I believe did so any way. These issues like gay marriage, UKIP
:10:27. > :10:31.people associate with the Europe question, in or out. It is not just
:10:31. > :10:34.that? No it is not. The only political party who supports
:10:34. > :10:39.traditional marriage, as far as I'm aware is UKIP. That is why people
:10:39. > :10:42.are choosing it. Binita Mehta you were standing in the local council
:10:42. > :10:46.elections recently, how hot an issue did you find it on the
:10:46. > :10:50.doorstep? It was a hot issue, and in Watford where I'm from and where
:10:50. > :10:54.I was standing we had an overwhelming apltd of young people
:10:54. > :10:57.who were becoming -- overwhelming amount of young people becoming
:10:57. > :11:00.engaged in Conservative politics because of gay marriage and the
:11:00. > :11:04.progressive policies that our Prime Minister is putting forward as
:11:04. > :11:08.leader of our party. So it was a hot issue but not necessarily a
:11:08. > :11:13.damaging issue? Not for me any way. I got lots of help from the younger
:11:13. > :11:17.people. Did you get elected? quite. Bear with us a moment or two,
:11:17. > :11:20.I think we are joined by the Culture Secretary, Maria Miller now.
:11:20. > :11:23.You could only get this through with the support of Labour and the
:11:23. > :11:28.Liberal Democrats, you couldn't do it on your own could you? This has
:11:28. > :11:31.been a free vote bill from the start. And today's vote has shown
:11:31. > :11:35.that we have support for the bill overwhelming support for the bill
:11:35. > :11:40.continuing to move forward from all of the major parties. The important
:11:40. > :11:43.thing. Not all of your own party, of course? The important result of
:11:44. > :11:48.this bill being voted through tonight is that we actually can
:11:49. > :11:53.make progress, we can make sure that the bill moves forward and it
:11:53. > :11:56.isn't mired in discussion around the extension of civil partnerships.
:11:56. > :12:00.Either here in the Commons or in the Lords, that can be dealt with
:12:00. > :12:03.separately. That is an upon and constructive way forward. The Prime
:12:04. > :12:09.Minister told us of this an issue that was absolutely key to his set
:12:09. > :12:13.of beliefs. Why didn't he speak in the debate? The Prime Minister has
:12:13. > :12:18.been this evening in the lobbies voting on these important set of
:12:18. > :12:23.ameantments. It is absolutely right that these things are dealt with my
:12:23. > :12:26.by the mensers responsible. It was a free vote you told -- And the
:12:26. > :12:30.ministers responsible. It was a free vote you told you? The reason
:12:30. > :12:33.it was taken today the decision is because we are the people putting
:12:33. > :12:37.the legislation in place. We have seen the overwhelming support for
:12:37. > :12:41.the approach the Government is taking. The approach of having a
:12:41. > :12:44.review on extending civil partnership, but not allowing it to
:12:44. > :12:52.delay the implementation of the marriage for same-sex couples.
:12:52. > :12:57.right, so he's entitled not to speak, is Gerald Howath, a minister
:12:57. > :13:03.in your Government until last year, is he right to talk about a march
:13:03. > :13:06.of aggressive homosexuals being behind this proposal? One of the
:13:06. > :13:10.main principles of the debate is the right of people to have
:13:10. > :13:14.different views on the future of marriage for same-sex couples. I'm
:13:14. > :13:18.very clear that I want to see that go forward in the way that is set
:13:18. > :13:23.out in the bill. Other colleagues may not have the same view. Clearly
:13:23. > :13:26.there is a need to respect that in the same way that we are respecting
:13:26. > :13:29.the rights of religious institutions to be able to deal
:13:29. > :13:33.with this in different ways. Whether that is the Quaker church,
:13:33. > :13:38.the Jewish free church, the Unitarians, who all support the
:13:38. > :13:41.idea of extending same-sex marriage and the Church of England in Wales
:13:41. > :13:46.who don't support that. You have done this at the cost of allowing
:13:46. > :13:50.part of the nation to see that much of your parliamentary party might,
:13:50. > :13:53.in their view, be characterised still as the nasty Party? Look you
:13:53. > :13:57.have seen in the votes tonight an overwhelming support for the
:13:57. > :14:01.approach that we are taking in this important report stage of the bill.
:14:01. > :14:05.Not in your own party we haven't? There is strong support within the
:14:05. > :14:10.Conservative Party and we saw that in the lobbies today. Sorry how
:14:10. > :14:15.many of your own MPs didn't support this legislation then? I haven't
:14:15. > :14:20.got the breakdown of that. It is about half isn't it? What I can
:14:20. > :14:23.tell you is there is strong support in my party. For some of your
:14:23. > :14:28.party? There is strong support by Labour and liberal issues, that is
:14:28. > :14:31.why it is a free vote, it is a conscience issue. And we have seen
:14:31. > :14:36.a House of Commons want to go see the bill move forward. The House of
:14:36. > :14:39.Commons may as a whole, because with the aid of what was called a
:14:39. > :14:43."grubby deal" by one of your own MPs, you were able to force it
:14:43. > :14:47.through. But the fact is a substantial section of your own
:14:47. > :14:52.party simply doesn't like this legislation and sees it Asim
:14:52. > :14:56.tomorrowatic of the fact that your lead -- as symptomatic of the fact
:14:56. > :14:59.that your leadership is completely out-of-touch with the grassroots?
:14:59. > :15:04.Many Conservative Party members support the mrb. When we look in
:15:04. > :15:08.the -- The measure, when we look at the support out in the country as a
:15:09. > :15:12.whole there is a majority of support more same-sex marriage. We
:15:12. > :15:15.need to focus on the bill moving forward. And just as with other
:15:15. > :15:19.conscience bills there will be a difference of opinion. I simply
:15:19. > :15:24.don't accept this should be whipped which is what you should be
:15:24. > :15:28.implying. We have two local activists here in the studio, from
:15:28. > :15:33.your experience Mary, do you recognise the party that Maria
:15:33. > :15:37.Miller is talking about? No, I'm astonished, I never would have
:15:38. > :15:41.imagined that I would sit talking to somebody in the heart of
:15:41. > :15:46.Government in Great Britain and we exported parliamentary democracy
:15:46. > :15:51.across the whole world and this is a bill that has no mandate, no
:15:51. > :15:55.manifesto, no green paper, no White Paper, no Queen's Speech on either
:15:55. > :16:01.side of the year that has gone by. A consultation that was a total
:16:01. > :16:04.sham, to be frank, which any tinpot dictator would be proud. And
:16:04. > :16:07.furthermore a committee weighted totally out of proportion to the
:16:07. > :16:11.proportion of MPs that voted either way on the second reading and a
:16:11. > :16:17.debate in which the MPs could only talk for four minutes. Four minutes
:16:17. > :16:20.to talk about the institution of marriage. Deal with that? I think
:16:20. > :16:26.it is very clear that the people you have in the studio may have a
:16:26. > :16:30.different view. But what I would say is that. You are supposed to be
:16:30. > :16:33.in the same part. There is significant support for the measure
:16:33. > :16:37.in parliament. I was for 20 years a grassroots member of the party
:16:37. > :16:42.before I became a member of parliament and I understand the
:16:42. > :16:44.very important and pivitol role that our grassroots activists play.
:16:44. > :16:47.They are the backbone of the party. I think it is important we
:16:47. > :16:53.understand that and important we show respect for their views. But
:16:53. > :16:57.on this issue, in the same way as when the Labour Government put
:16:57. > :17:03.forward the extension of civil partnerships, back in 2004, there
:17:03. > :17:06.are a wide range of views, that doesn't stop us from tackling those
:17:06. > :17:10.issues, tackle them in a way that is right for society. I think
:17:11. > :17:14.fairness is an important principle that we hold proudly in this
:17:14. > :17:21.country. I know you have to run along. Thanks for sparing the time
:17:22. > :17:27.to talk to us. Mary Douglas, you were exhaling in frustration?
:17:27. > :17:30.have to say what angered me even more than the clear contempt for
:17:30. > :17:34.the deeply-held views of Conservative supporters, these are
:17:34. > :17:38.people who have served the party all of their life, faithfully
:17:38. > :17:43.working on its behalf. And now they are leaving, why are they leaving?
:17:43. > :17:46.Because they just cannot support something which goes against their
:17:46. > :17:49.core beliefs. I know in North Wiltshire the chairman of the
:17:49. > :17:53.association there said people had been leaving for that reason, and
:17:53. > :17:59.then they had turned to her and said we have to leave, but who will
:17:59. > :18:04.we vote for now? What about this swivel-eyed loon, do you feel a
:18:04. > :18:11.swivel-eyed loon? Often, but I can't speak for others. Such
:18:12. > :18:15.language can be used allegedly, that language can be used by people
:18:15. > :18:19.near the centre of the party about the people who get the party
:18:19. > :18:26.elected? Yes, I mean I'm minded that no-one has yet confirmed who
:18:26. > :18:32.exactly said that, but as I said recently actually whoever said it
:18:32. > :18:41.what is so sad is that Conservative grassroots were not surprised.
:18:41. > :18:45.Sadly, that is what we suspected had gone on. You are expressing
:18:45. > :18:47.business belief you are surprised to hear senior members of your
:18:47. > :18:52.party. I have heard senior members of your party talking about local
:18:52. > :18:57.activists in these terms? I have not, and those are but allegations.
:18:57. > :19:02.I believe that we are a broad church in the Conservative Party. I
:19:02. > :19:05.unyour viewpoint. There are many Conservative activists and members
:19:05. > :19:10.and there will be a diversity of views, however my opinion and what
:19:10. > :19:14.I have seen from Watford and around the country, having been involved
:19:14. > :19:19.in student politics, overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly the younger
:19:19. > :19:23.generation are 100% behind this policy. And I understand that your
:19:23. > :19:27.association chairman has her issues and she has seen that in Wiltshire,
:19:27. > :19:31.however in Watford what I have seen, and indeed at Warwick University,
:19:31. > :19:36.people are getting behind the Conservatives for the reason that
:19:36. > :19:40.they, we are implementing these progressive policies. Let me
:19:40. > :19:43.interrupt you, we are joined by further MPs now, Tim Loughton,
:19:43. > :19:46.whose amendment, what happened to your amendment it failed didn't it?
:19:46. > :19:51.It didn't get passed, just about everyone who spoke in the debate
:19:51. > :19:54.said they agreed with it. But there was a strange grubby deal done
:19:54. > :19:59.between the Labour Party front bench and the Government and they
:19:59. > :20:04.voted against it. Strange things happen in politics. Margot James
:20:04. > :20:09.how do you feel about a grubby deal going done to get something past
:20:09. > :20:14.that you agreed with? I did agree with what happened, I happen to
:20:14. > :20:18.support the civil partnerships for hetrosexual couples. The debate
:20:18. > :20:21.revealed there was much more work and thinking to be done before it
:20:21. > :20:25.was going to be implementable. Therefore, I didn't want it to hold
:20:25. > :20:31.up the progress of a separate matter, which is the equal marriage
:20:31. > :20:35.for gay people. That's why I was happy to oppose the amendment.
:20:35. > :20:42.Although in principle I do agree with what is behind it. What do you
:20:42. > :20:47.feel will be the sentiment in Stourbridge tonight? Well, I think
:20:47. > :20:52.Stourbridge reflects you know the country. It is a bellwether
:20:52. > :20:55.constituency. Come on? Seriously. Get to the point. OK I think I have
:20:55. > :20:59.had quite a lot of support from my stand. I know that there are
:20:59. > :21:03.members of my association who disagree with me. We have had very
:21:03. > :21:06.friendly discussions about it. But overall I would say that
:21:06. > :21:10.Stourbridge reflects the rest of the country, there is a narrow
:21:10. > :21:15.majority in favour of gay marriage. You feel you are in tune, Tim
:21:15. > :21:19.Loughton, with the people of Worting and shoreham? Well, I have
:21:19. > :21:23.had over 800 letters from constituents saying they disagree
:21:23. > :21:27.with the same-sex matter and 20- something in favour. That is only
:21:27. > :21:30.800 and something in total. There are real concerns about this bill.
:21:30. > :21:34.Clearly the will of the House that the bill should go through. I won't
:21:34. > :21:37.oppose that. But our job as backbenchers was to make sure that
:21:37. > :21:47.the safeguards which we think are needed in the bill, so that people
:21:47. > :21:51.
:21:51. > :21:54.can, who have got conscience issues with this bill, can oppose it
:21:54. > :21:59.without fear of prosecution. As far as you are concerned that is an end
:21:59. > :22:02.to it, parliament has spoken, your campaign is at answered? Only half
:22:03. > :22:06.of parliament has spoken. In fact. The House of Commons has spoken the
:22:06. > :22:10.elect part of it? We haven't finished in the House of Commons,
:22:10. > :22:15.we will have the third reading and then to the House of Lords which is
:22:15. > :22:19.a completely different ball game. The particular bit I was pushing
:22:19. > :22:24.this evening, extending civil partnerships to opposite sex
:22:24. > :22:28.couples. We don't do that, there is a glaring inequality created in the
:22:28. > :22:31.bill which is supposed to be about equality. A lot of people agreed
:22:31. > :22:35.with it and didn't vote with it. It will gain steam in the House of
:22:35. > :22:41.Lords and beyond. How do you feel about sitting on the same benches
:22:41. > :22:45.as a man in fact in response to a point of your's, an MP who can talk
:22:45. > :22:51.about a march of aggressive homosexuals, how do you feel about
:22:51. > :22:55.that? Not me, I by the way. Clearly and definitely not me. I don't take
:22:55. > :22:59.offence at that. A lot of words are spoken in the House of Commons and
:22:59. > :23:05.you know, many a slip of the tongue et cetera. I don't take offence of
:23:05. > :23:08.that. Sir Gerald is entitled to his view. I think my dear late father
:23:08. > :23:12.would have agreed with him, you think we can all remain on good
:23:12. > :23:20.terms. What about the leadership of your party. How come you can get
:23:20. > :23:22.into a mess like this on an issue as core to many of your supporters'
:23:23. > :23:27.beliefs. You probably haven't been able to hear them being in
:23:27. > :23:30.Westminster having legislating to do, but there are people who are
:23:30. > :23:33.jolly angry in your party about what parliament has done today.
:23:33. > :23:37.With the assistance of Labour and the Liberal Democrats, unable to do
:23:37. > :23:42.it by itself your party? appreciate that. But I would like
:23:42. > :23:45.to say that a lot of Conservative colleagues voted for this bill. In
:23:45. > :23:48.fact I sense support is growing amongst my colleagues for the bill.
:23:48. > :23:51.I don't think it is quite fair to say we are only doing it with the
:23:51. > :23:55.support of other party. There is cross-party support, but there are
:23:55. > :24:00.a lot of Conservative colleagues who are behind this bill. And I'm
:24:00. > :24:04.sorry that people, not everybody shares the view, but hopefully,
:24:04. > :24:10.with the passage of time, people will come to appreciate, as they
:24:10. > :24:14.have done with civil partnerships, that gay marriage like it has done
:24:14. > :24:18.in 14 other countries. And the world will not end. Let's go back
:24:18. > :24:23.to this point of the leadership here, you are quite confident and
:24:23. > :24:26.comfortable with David Cameron's management of your party are you?
:24:26. > :24:32.think he did introduce this bill, I was there at conference in
:24:32. > :24:36.Birmingham in 2011. He didn't bother to speak for it today?
:24:36. > :24:39.made his views clear, and I do support him as do many others who
:24:39. > :24:44.are like me, members of the Conservative Party. As I can say
:24:44. > :24:49.from this panel as someone who is 22 and potentially representing the
:24:49. > :24:54.younger generation within our party, I think as Margot James said, we do
:24:54. > :24:59.have many, many people who do believe in this bill and, frankly,
:24:59. > :25:02.in five to ten years time we will look back on this in the future of
:25:02. > :25:06.our party and across all the parties, we will look at this and
:25:06. > :25:09.think what was the big deal. Why didn't we just get on with it?
:25:09. > :25:14.There is a fellow member of your party, fellow activist just shaking
:25:14. > :25:17.her head in disbelief? I would like to pursue, if I may, the whole this
:25:17. > :25:22.isn't a big deal. Because one of the things that concerns me is the
:25:22. > :25:26.total lack of understanding of the meaning of marriage. This is not
:25:26. > :25:30.just about equality, it is not even achieving equality, this is about
:25:30. > :25:35.changing an institution that has to do with the creation and the caring
:25:35. > :25:38.of children and that has not been mentioned hardly at. Have the
:25:39. > :25:43.children and the actual purpose of marriage within our society, even
:25:43. > :25:47.featured in this debate. If you are not gay this will not affect you.
:25:47. > :25:51.Not so. However I would like to live in a country where my children
:25:51. > :25:56.can be able to marry whoever they love gay or straight? Marry, we
:25:56. > :26:02.need to understand what it is to marry. You can carry on arguing
:26:02. > :26:07.outside. He is expected to do for more the image of retired majors
:26:07. > :26:13.than anyone since that drunken old fool who lived in Fawlty Towers.
:26:13. > :26:17.Major Tim Peake was in the army air corp, as of some date in the 2015s
:26:17. > :26:21.his address will be elsewhere in the universe. He has been chosen
:26:21. > :26:25.from thousands of hopefuls to live on the International Space Station.
:26:25. > :26:31.The cost is some �16 million to the taxpayer, money well spent the
:26:31. > :26:34.Prime Minister claimed today. Le After more than three years of
:26:34. > :26:39.training with the European Space Agency's astronaut programme, this
:26:39. > :26:43.former British Army Apache helicopter pilot has been selected
:26:43. > :26:48.from 8,000 hopefuls for one of the six places to work on the
:26:48. > :26:52.International Space Station for six month of orbiting the earth. The
:26:52. > :26:57.selection process included academic testing, fitness assessments and
:26:57. > :27:02.several interviews. The flight is expected take place in November
:27:02. > :27:07.2015, when the Russian-made Soyuz rocket will be launched. During the
:27:07. > :27:10.half year flight, he will happy out a comprehensive science programme
:27:10. > :27:18.and take part in a European education outreach programme in the
:27:18. > :27:23.build up to and during his mission. # This is ground control
:27:23. > :27:26.# To major Tom. But the job of being a spaceman has
:27:26. > :27:32.recently been redefined, today's announcement has come days after
:27:32. > :27:35.the return to earth of the Canadian astronaut, Chris Hadfield. His
:27:35. > :27:39.tweets and videos caught the imagination of a million followers
:27:39. > :27:42.around the world, and the extraordinary images of the world
:27:42. > :27:46.from the International Space Station. He spoke to us earlier.
:27:46. > :27:51.Tim Peake is a great man. I have known him since he was selected. We
:27:51. > :27:55.come from an aviation test background, we have a natural
:27:55. > :27:58.kinship, we have sat and played guitar before together. I respect
:27:58. > :28:01.him. There is a huge burden of responsibility on his shoulders. He
:28:01. > :28:08.has a lot of work to get ready to go, you look at his background and
:28:08. > :28:12.the type of guy he is. He will excel. Relatively little is known
:28:12. > :28:21.about Tim Peake, but we understand he won't be taking his guitar to
:28:21. > :28:27.space. And he's with us now. Are you taking any instruments at all?
:28:27. > :28:34.I don't have to, the by star stays on board the station. What --
:28:34. > :28:37.by star stays on board the station. What will we get for the �16
:28:37. > :28:42.million? British industry and science to get involved in
:28:42. > :28:45.microgravity research. As your clip highlighted we get the
:28:45. > :28:50.inspirational factor for a new generation of engineers to be
:28:50. > :28:53.inspired by space flight. What is the point? It is a fantastic space
:28:53. > :28:57.laboratory over and above everything else. We are doing
:28:57. > :29:02.cutting-edge scientific research. What is it? It is an environment
:29:03. > :29:07.where you can study micrographty. Here on earth many perameters have
:29:07. > :29:11.changed throughout the four billion of history, temperature, pressure,
:29:11. > :29:14.gravity has remained constant, you change that perameter by going into
:29:14. > :29:21.space strange things happen, we learn and develop new things.
:29:21. > :29:25.sort of new things? Things like the body's immune system becomes
:29:25. > :29:30.depleted and viruses become virulant, it is a great place to
:29:30. > :29:32.look at vaccines, MSRA that kills more people than HIV that was taken
:29:32. > :29:38.up there recently too. You are talking about things being done,
:29:38. > :29:44.what will they do with you. What will you do? Personally there are
:29:44. > :29:47.many human physiologyy experiments done. That is an area we are
:29:47. > :29:51.particularly strong at which is space biomedicine, we are learning
:29:51. > :29:55.more about the human body. It benefits the ageing population back
:29:56. > :29:59.on earth and helps us with our future space exploration for the
:29:59. > :30:03.longer durations. We send you up there to send someone else up
:30:03. > :30:06.there? We sent us up there to learn more about ourselves and our
:30:06. > :30:12.environment. For example in order to progress in space flight we need
:30:12. > :30:16.to know how the body reacts in microgravity. What will you do?
:30:16. > :30:20.Science predominantly. What science? Fluid physics, biological
:30:20. > :30:26.science, medical research, as I have already pointed out. Some of
:30:26. > :30:29.the impacts on the body in loss of bone density and osteoporosis. We
:30:29. > :30:34.have an ageing population becoming an increasing burden on the economy,
:30:34. > :30:37.the more we learn about that and the more we find ways of dealing
:30:37. > :30:42.with those problems we can have real impact back on earth. Will it
:30:42. > :30:45.be boring up there? Not at all. If ever you get bored you are in the
:30:45. > :30:51.wrong job. You are just drifting around, aren't you? The work
:30:51. > :30:55.schedule is pretty punishing. I had the privilege to communicate with
:30:55. > :31:00.the space station over the last few years in my job, they work
:31:00. > :31:03.extremely hard and the research goes on from dawn to dusk. They
:31:03. > :31:08.seem to be up there nowadays playing guitar, it is not what many
:31:08. > :31:12.people would recognise as a taxing job? What commander Chris Hadfield
:31:12. > :31:18.has been doing is purely in his own time. What you don't get to hear
:31:18. > :31:24.much about is during his increment they set the record for the maximum
:31:24. > :31:27.amount of science done each week. What you saw was done on a Saturday
:31:27. > :31:33.afternoon and Sunday. How important is the business of communication?
:31:33. > :31:37.think you saw from the clip again, he's over a million Twitter
:31:37. > :31:41.followers, he has had a huge impact globally. It has inspired everybody
:31:41. > :31:48.to be enthused about our planet, about human space flight. That
:31:48. > :31:55.effect is unquantifyable. They are just amused, rather than enthused?,
:31:55. > :31:59.amused to see a bloke in space with a funny moustache singing David
:31:59. > :32:02.Bowie covers? It is inspiring people. It is inspiring our young
:32:02. > :32:05.generation to become excited about science, if we get people excited
:32:06. > :32:09.about science that will, in time, give us a population that will
:32:09. > :32:12.improve the economy. People will be coming into jobs in science and
:32:12. > :32:16.engineering. That will have a huge benefit to our population. There is
:32:16. > :32:20.a practical application in all of this? Most certainly. From the
:32:20. > :32:25.science, from UK industry. We will have British industry involved in
:32:25. > :32:29.developing things for the space station and for future space flight
:32:29. > :32:36.as well. Supposing you managed to enthuse some young people to want
:32:36. > :32:41.to do what you have done. You were one of 8,000 candidates? I was, yes.
:32:41. > :32:45.What did you have the other 9,999 didn't have? A very good question,
:32:45. > :32:50.unfortunately I can't answer it, I'm not privvy to the results.
:32:50. > :32:55.do you think you night have had? Judging by the selection process
:32:55. > :32:58.the main element was psychological profiling. When you are spending
:32:58. > :33:01.significance months working with an international crew in the small
:33:01. > :33:05.space, you have to be the right character and get on with people.
:33:05. > :33:10.That was a large element of the selection process. I think that had
:33:10. > :33:14.a large part to play in why I was selected. You may recall the
:33:14. > :33:17.international hoo-ha a year ago when the world watched a strange
:33:17. > :33:22.stand-off between China and the United States over the fate of a
:33:22. > :33:25.blind dissident who had taken refuge on US soil in Beijing. It
:33:25. > :33:29.was eventually diffused when the Government there allowed him a visa
:33:29. > :33:34.to go to America, the dogs barked and the caravan moved on. Since
:33:34. > :33:39.then by some less than transparent process China has acquired a new
:33:39. > :33:45.leadership. Time to find out if the new boss looks any different to the
:33:45. > :33:50.old boss. Chen Guangcheng spent four years in jail, and two under
:33:50. > :33:57.house arrest, his crime, to use class action lawsuits to defend
:33:57. > :34:01.farmers in China over land disputes and forced abortions. Last year he
:34:01. > :34:05.escaped, sought refuge in the US embassy and was finally allowed to
:34:05. > :34:14.leave for the USA. When I met him today I asked him to describe what
:34:14. > :34:17.happened under house arrest? TRANSLATION: How shall I put it,
:34:17. > :34:22.just to think about the combinations of beating, smashing
:34:22. > :34:26.and robberies, the old fascists are back, and even worse than the
:34:26. > :34:30.fascists, hooligans to boot. That is a big thing to say. Are you
:34:30. > :34:36.telling me that the Chinese Communist Party is fascist or worse
:34:36. > :34:41.than fascist? TRANSLATION: For me they are worse than fascists,
:34:41. > :34:45.fascists rob you openly, the Chinese Communist Party rob you
:34:45. > :34:49.openly and make attempts to cover it up. Those words couldn't be said
:34:49. > :34:53.in public in China. But the new man at the helm, Liu Xianping,
:34:53. > :34:57.installed last December, has promised reform. Above all to
:34:57. > :35:02.address the blatant abuses of the law by local officials that Chen
:35:02. > :35:09.was up against. The west has, if not great hopes of rapid reform, at
:35:09. > :35:13.least hopes that she -- he will deliver on the greater rule of law.
:35:13. > :35:19.TRANSLATION: It is a lie, people living in democratic countries know
:35:19. > :35:23.that the Government represents the people. In China it is completely
:35:23. > :35:27.different. In China Government is just a tool stolen from and used to
:35:27. > :35:32.enslave the people. In Chinese law the party committee cannot be taken
:35:32. > :35:38.to court. The party committee controls public pros and the courts.
:35:38. > :35:45.It controls all media through the propaganda department. And it has
:35:45. > :35:48.kidnapped the whole country. Beneath the surface China is racked
:35:48. > :35:51.with protests about land grabbed, wages unpaid and poor conditions in
:35:51. > :35:55.factories. Their seething discontent on the Chinese internet,
:35:55. > :36:01.if you know how to read the euphamisms and understand the code.
:36:01. > :36:09.Do these forces have any real chance of displacing the Communist
:36:09. > :36:14.Party and its regime? TRANSLATION: I think it is happening now but in
:36:14. > :36:20.a developing period from 57,000 mass protests in 2005 to over
:36:20. > :36:25.220,000 now. We can see the people are wakening up their sense of
:36:25. > :36:29.their own rights is growing fast. Of course because of the supression
:36:29. > :36:34.from the Communist Party it will take some time for people to
:36:34. > :36:38.overcome the fear. But I believe change in China is imminent. It is
:36:38. > :36:43.the course of history, nothing will stop it. But that's not how things
:36:43. > :36:50.look to western politicians. They have to do deals with the Chinese
:36:50. > :36:56.membership that looks and sound permanent. Chen says there should
:36:56. > :37:00.be an end to closed talks about human rights. TRANSLATION: For me
:37:00. > :37:05.the west has not been trading ordealing with China but the
:37:05. > :37:08.Chinese Communist Party. To some extent the west is robbing the
:37:08. > :37:17.Chinese people, alongside Chinese Communist Party if they do not care
:37:17. > :37:22.about human rights. But they are concerned only about trade. To its
:37:22. > :37:28.friends China is seen as making real but hesitant steps towards
:37:28. > :37:34.democracy, constantly criticised and sometimes hard done by. For one
:37:34. > :37:38.of the most high-profile victims to accuse them of fascism and the west
:37:38. > :37:44.of collusion ups the ante. If you have ever had to bullshit your way
:37:44. > :37:48.through a conversation about modern literature you will be looking at
:37:48. > :37:54.the titles of the Great American Novel. There is no shortage, Moby
:37:54. > :37:59.Dick, The Great Gatsby and On The Road and Neverland. A name you hear
:37:59. > :38:03.less frequency from any of those, a writer called James Salter. The
:38:03. > :38:08.former Korean War pilot takes a long time to produce a book. He has
:38:08. > :38:18.just produced his first novel in 30 years at the age of 87. A new
:38:18. > :38:21.
:38:21. > :38:26.Salter is worth the wait to many. "about 1,000-feet back I pull the
:38:26. > :38:31.trigger, tracers fall behind him. I cut him off, closing, a few hits in
:38:31. > :38:36.the right-wing, tremendous joy, at closer range a solid burst in the
:38:36. > :38:41.fuselage, the flashes are intense, brilliant, something shattering. He
:38:41. > :38:48.abruptly rolls over and I follow, as if they were leaping from a
:38:48. > :38:56.wall." Having been to war fies is certain classical definition of
:38:56. > :39:01.manhood. To have seen war is sometimes a pillar of manhood. I
:39:01. > :39:09.felt that at the time. I suppose I could look at myself and say, yeah,
:39:09. > :39:15.well you did that. That's all right. James Salter was an American
:39:15. > :39:22.fighter ace in the Korean War. In his subsequent career as a writer
:39:22. > :39:28.he has garn earned enviable views. His masculine concerns about combat
:39:28. > :39:31.and the sexual life have brought comparisons with Hemmingway. "how
:39:31. > :39:35.he would behave in action was weighing on his mind that morning,
:39:35. > :39:38.as they stood looking at the mysterious foreign sea and at the
:39:38. > :39:42.sky that was already becoming brighter. Courage and fear, and how
:39:42. > :39:48.you would act under fire, were not among the things you talked about.
:39:48. > :39:51.You hoped when the time came that you would be able to do as
:39:52. > :39:58.expected." Salter publishes a new full-length novel this week. His
:39:58. > :40:04.first for more than 30 years. Why have you kept us waiting on tenter
:40:04. > :40:12.hooks for so long for another book? I didn't realise you were waiting,
:40:12. > :40:20.of course! But well I was writing stories. I have been a slow writer
:40:20. > :40:26.in any case, things have been slow to appear. It is not immemmor yum
:40:26. > :40:35.or any such thing, but I began to feel an urgency. It was ten years
:40:35. > :40:39.ago that I felt this urgency so it wasn't that urgent. Salter is
:40:39. > :40:47.interested in men and women, family life, careers, there is plenty of
:40:47. > :40:57.sex and drink in his fiction. Fans of Mad Men will enjoy it. When sex
:40:57. > :41:02.is prohibited, I mean it was inachievable, actually, in a
:41:02. > :41:06.certain way. Not completely obviously but it was regarded in
:41:06. > :41:11.the some what different way. you referring to the times when
:41:11. > :41:16.premarital sex didn't happen? That's certainly one of the things.
:41:16. > :41:26.I would say that it's quite the ordinary now to live with somebody
:41:26. > :41:26.
:41:26. > :41:33.for a bit before you get married if you get married. That would be a
:41:33. > :41:39.very irregular Bohemian and outcast situation some years ago, a couple
:41:39. > :41:43.of generations ago. What do you think it says about the British
:41:43. > :41:48.that a literary magazine here has something called the bad sex award!
:41:48. > :41:52.Have you heard of it? I have heard of it. I'm not saying for a minute
:41:52. > :41:56.you would qal foi for that, James, I wonder -- qualify for that, James,
:41:56. > :42:03.I wonder what it says about our culture that we giggle about
:42:03. > :42:07.writing about sex in novels? Sor om of us do? I don't want -- or some
:42:07. > :42:14.of us do? I don't want to say you are English, I don't know, I don't
:42:14. > :42:17.think there would be such a thuing in France.
:42:17. > :42:22.Managers in the morning there was England, green and unknown beneath
:42:22. > :42:27.the broken clouds. They drove in from Heathrow in a cab, making a
:42:27. > :42:31.sound like a sewing machine, with the driver offering occasional
:42:31. > :42:36.comments in a language difficult to understand. Bowman was struck by
:42:36. > :42:38.the proud outdated character of the city. Its irregularity and singular
:42:39. > :42:48.names. The most important thing, its separation from the continent
:42:48. > :42:53.was not yet known to him." After Salter traded in his flyers'
:42:53. > :42:56.fatigues for the patched elbows of the author's jacket, he got into
:42:56. > :43:00.screen writing for a time. His local colour of London comes from
:43:00. > :43:04.trips to the capital with Robert Redford among others. We hung
:43:04. > :43:10.around together. Our car broke down going to Heathrow in the tunnel one
:43:10. > :43:14.time. We had to get out, he was a star then, a big star, with our
:43:14. > :43:24.suitcases and leg it through the tunnel and leg it through the road
:43:24. > :43:28.
:43:28. > :43:32.and one thing or another to catch the plane. Here is how this 87-
:43:32. > :43:37.year-old gets upstairs. James Salter recently took the joy stick
:43:37. > :43:42.of an F-16 fighter. The guest of the pilot and of the US air force,
:43:42. > :43:48.which has made his novels required reading for its officers. You know
:43:48. > :43:53.it comes right back to you, I'm not talking about some phenomenal
:43:53. > :44:00.expertise or anything. It is like swimming again. Beneath a little
:44:00. > :44:07.nerve vows naturally, having seen me, he says OK 4g, so I pulled it
:44:07. > :44:13.up, I'm pulling up, he says hold that up, then I heard him say a
:44:13. > :44:19.wonderful thing as we were going over the top he said "awesome,
:44:19. > :44:26.awesome", then we did other stuff. That was my final flight. Is it the
:44:26. > :44:31.best feeling, is it better than sex James? Come on! You can't be
:44:31. > :44:39.serious. I have only done one of those two! Well you are ahead of
:44:39. > :44:44.the game. Before the newspapers for tomorrow,
:44:44. > :44:47.while we have been on air we have received footage of a tornado that
:44:47. > :44:51.has devastated parts of Oklahoma. Whole neighbourhoods appear to have
:44:52. > :44:56.been hit and there are reports that the tornado destroyed an Elementary
:44:56. > :45:02.School. We don't currently have details of any casualties.
:45:02. > :45:09.According to the Oklahoma police captain broken power lines and open
:45:09. > :45:13.gas lines pose a continuing risk in the aftermath of the tornado.
:45:13. > :45:23.Tomorrow morning's front pages that has happened much to late for any
:45:23. > :45:23.
:45:23. > :46:34.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 70 seconds
:46:34. > :46:37.One or two heavy showers in the short-term. Grey in places damp
:46:38. > :46:41.start to Tuesday morning, through England and Wales. The story is one
:46:41. > :46:44.of brightening skies, and whilst some southern areas will turn
:46:44. > :46:49.warmer than we saw during Monday afternoon, further north
:46:49. > :46:52.temperatures will be four or five degrees down. We saw 22 Celsius in
:46:52. > :46:55.in part of central Scotland. Tuesday a few showers to the North
:46:55. > :47:00.West. Northern Ireland and much of Scotland stays dry. The best of
:47:00. > :47:04.which will be southern areas. Some sunny spells in northern England.
:47:04. > :47:09.Across the Pennines, peak district, we will see sharper showers develop
:47:09. > :47:14.during the second half of the day. Mostly staying dry, cool down the
:47:14. > :47:17.eastern coasts, continuing through eastern Anglia and the far south-
:47:17. > :47:20.west. At the grease in some other areas, there will be longer spells
:47:20. > :47:23.of sunshine developing for the afternoon. Always feeling cooler
:47:23. > :47:27.around northern and western coasts because of the strengthening North
:47:27. > :47:30.West breeze. That North West breeze will bring changes through Tuesday
:47:30. > :47:33.and into Wednesday. As I said temperatures already dropping by
:47:33. > :47:38.Tuesday, by Wednesday dropping further. Increasing risks of
:47:38. > :47:41.showers. We could see temperatures around 17 in the likes of Cardiff
:47:42. > :47:45.and Birmingham for the mid-week. Make the most of it in the sunnier