:00:16. > :00:20.Tonight the week that shocked us all, after the horrific murder of
:00:20. > :00:24.Drummer Lee Rigby, what can any Government do to prevent the
:00:24. > :00:31.radicalisation of potentially violent young men. We have an
:00:31. > :00:33.exclusive interview of one of the childhood friends that we have just
:00:33. > :00:39.recorded. The authorities say they are
:00:39. > :00:42.increasingly worried about a small number of extremists. There are a
:00:42. > :00:46.handful of people inspired by these two guys we will have a big problem
:00:46. > :00:52.that we have to deal with, and it can't be dealt with Security
:00:52. > :00:57.Services and police alone. Good evening, we have an
:00:57. > :01:01.extraordinary interview tonight of a childhood friend of one of the
:01:01. > :01:07.men arrested for the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby. He tells us the
:01:07. > :01:12.background of the man and why he converted to Islam, and he tells us
:01:12. > :01:17.something of what might have made him become radicalised. Give us a
:01:17. > :01:20.bit of the background to this. Dramatic events tonight. We have
:01:20. > :01:25.spent the last two hours trying to secure an interview with a
:01:25. > :01:29.childhood friend of one of the men accused of the murder. We arranged
:01:29. > :01:33.for that interview. He came into the BBC. We conducted the interview.
:01:33. > :01:38.Immediately after the interview I'm told three people from Special
:01:38. > :01:43.Branch were in the BBC premises, they arrested the man. And so you
:01:43. > :01:51.know very dramatic events tonight. In the interview itself it shows an
:01:51. > :01:58.interesting portrait of the interviewee, and also the suspect,
:01:58. > :02:02.Michael Adebolajo. I started by asking him about his early
:02:02. > :02:07.childhood. How long have you known Michael Adebolajo? We met roughly
:02:07. > :02:10.about early 2002. Where did you meet? We met at Romford, Essex.
:02:10. > :02:15.what the circumstances of you meeting, was it a social contact,
:02:15. > :02:19.was he a friend? I used to go down there to chill out with some of my
:02:19. > :02:25.friends, basically. And during the course of going down there we, one
:02:25. > :02:29.day we bumped into each other. It was a strange thing, we didn't see
:02:29. > :02:32.a lot of black guys down there, it was like how are you. We exchanged
:02:32. > :02:38.number and from there the relationship built up.
:02:38. > :02:45.At that time were you both non- Muslims, I understand you are both
:02:45. > :02:51.reverts to Islam? I wasn't in Islam. I came to Islam 2004, late 2004
:02:51. > :03:01.basically. He came in about four months after me. It is well known,
:03:01. > :03:03.
:03:03. > :03:07.it is established on the record that he was known and he knew the
:03:07. > :03:11.group Al-Muhajiroun, did you know him in those circles? He used to
:03:11. > :03:14.attend some of those events there, he was an independent guy, he
:03:14. > :03:19.wasn't stuck to one particular group. He would go to various
:03:19. > :03:23.circles and listen to various people. He wasn't stuck only with
:03:23. > :03:32.Anjem Choudary and others. He would float about, basically. But he knew
:03:32. > :03:35.them? He was aware of them. He had attended one or two events. I have
:03:35. > :03:39.interviewed Anjem Choudary and others on many occasions, one of
:03:39. > :03:45.the core beliefs and things that they aspire to is Sharia Law for
:03:45. > :03:51.example, in the UK, was that position your position and his
:03:51. > :03:54.position? I had that position myself which changed at a different
:03:54. > :03:58.time. Michael never took that position, he thought it was more
:03:58. > :04:02.sensible for Muslims to live in Muslim lands and live by the Sharia
:04:02. > :04:08.in Muslim lands, he thought that made more sense that living in the
:04:08. > :04:13.west and trying to implement the Sharia here. Did he consider
:04:13. > :04:17.emigrating to a Muslim land? He did, many times, I remember he wanted to
:04:17. > :04:20.do some qualifications in relation to teaching. He wanted to do a
:04:20. > :04:25.qualification in relation to fitness training, which he
:04:25. > :04:30.eventually did. He wanted to use that to go abroad and live in a
:04:30. > :04:35.Muslim country. That's some of the background to the suspect, Michael
:04:35. > :04:39.Adebolajo. But did he give us any clues as to what actually turned a
:04:39. > :04:44.switch in this man's head and made him into this violent person,
:04:44. > :04:51.potentially? He did. He said that about six months ago he had a
:04:51. > :04:56.conversation with him in London and he says that Adebolajo told him,
:04:56. > :04:59.the interviewee, that he had a very bad experience in Kenya. We don't
:04:59. > :05:03.have any way of independently confirming this. This is the
:05:03. > :05:06.account he gave us. He said he had travelled to Kenya, he was arrested
:05:06. > :05:11.and picked up by the Kenyan authorities. He alleges he was
:05:11. > :05:21.tortured and abused. He says that he noticed that it fundamentally
:05:21. > :05:22.
:05:22. > :05:25.changed his mind set after that experience. You describe Michael
:05:25. > :05:29.Adebolajo as a gentle man, the way you are decribing him. The contrast
:05:29. > :05:35.with someone who is capable of murdering on British streets is
:05:35. > :05:40.very, very stark indeed. How do you understand that? Yeah, I mean I
:05:40. > :05:46.believe certain event that happened to him recently kind of had an
:05:46. > :05:51.impact in shaping that change. Although that change wasn't
:05:51. > :05:57.necessarily one that became overt, aggressive or anything like that,
:05:57. > :06:05.he just became more kind of reclined and less talkive and so
:06:05. > :06:10.forth, like he wasn't his bubbly self, basically. The recent events
:06:10. > :06:14.were about six months ago he turned up one day, just out of the blue,
:06:14. > :06:21.no number or anything, he said basically what happened was he went
:06:21. > :06:28.to study in Kenya. When he got to Kenya in a particular village they
:06:29. > :06:33.were rounded up Kenyan troops and taken to a prison cell. They were
:06:33. > :06:36.interrogated one by one, when his turn came he didn't speak to him.
:06:36. > :06:42.Generally here he said no comment, he wouldn't speak to them. He said
:06:42. > :06:49.that basically the officer said you are not in the UK, basically you
:06:49. > :06:58.know taking his private parts he said I will "F" you if you wouldn't
:06:58. > :07:04.speak. They beat him badly and his comment was, he said he wasn't like,
:07:04. > :07:08.by oath, by good, that he feel shy to describe to you what they did to
:07:08. > :07:15.him. These were his exact words. He felt shy to describe what they did
:07:15. > :07:19.to him, basically. Did he tell you he was physically and sexually
:07:19. > :07:25.asaulted He told me he was physically assaulted and sexually
:07:25. > :07:28.threatened. He indicated from what I know of him, and when he said he
:07:29. > :07:32.was ashamed to tell you what had happened to him, as far as I
:07:32. > :07:36.understand it is actual abuse. There was nothing he would feel shy
:07:36. > :07:38.to tell me about except that. did he tell you that? This is
:07:38. > :07:43.roughly about six months ago, that is an estimate. Did you have any
:07:43. > :07:53.doubt that he was telling the truth at that time? No. If you looked at
:07:53. > :07:58.his face, you know, and he was holding tears back when he was
:07:58. > :08:03.mentioning it. My impression, when I heard it is I wanted to hug him.
:08:03. > :08:08.He's a close friend of mine. I wanted to hug him like a brother to
:08:08. > :08:12.say it's OK. It's fine, don't worry about it. So your judgment is that
:08:12. > :08:22.he had quite a profound change of personality after that? Definitely.
:08:22. > :08:27.
:08:27. > :08:33.He just became you know, he would be dour, you would be like we need
:08:33. > :08:37.to invite people to join Islam and he would say, yeah. His mind was
:08:37. > :08:45.somewhere else but he was present. Did he give any indication to you
:08:45. > :08:47.that he was capable of such horrific violence? No, when I saw
:08:47. > :08:53.the photos initially of him, I thought it was a joke. I thought
:08:54. > :08:58.are you serious, it can't be him. There is no way it can be him.
:08:58. > :09:02.Because it didn't make sense because his whole concept you know
:09:02. > :09:08.was he just wanted to go and live in the Muslim land and get away
:09:09. > :09:13.from all the problems and all the troubles, basically. At that time
:09:13. > :09:19.he was being harassed by MI5. This is something that he specifically
:09:19. > :09:23.mentioned to me. He said MI5 had come to him. On his return back he
:09:23. > :09:28.had been stopped and subsequently after that he was followed up by
:09:28. > :09:31.MI5. He said they came to his house. They were knocking on his door. He
:09:31. > :09:36.pretended that he wasn't there. But they were knocking so much he
:09:36. > :09:40.thought he needed to come and show his face. He came out, he spoke to
:09:40. > :09:44.the MI5 agent and they were saying they just wanted a chat with him,
:09:44. > :09:48.they just wanted to speak with him. When did he tell you this? Roughly
:09:48. > :09:53.about six months ago. What was his reaction to being approached by the
:09:53. > :10:01.Security Service and MI5? situation was that his wording was,
:10:01. > :10:08.you know, they are bugging him, they won't leave him alone.
:10:08. > :10:12.they explain what they wanted? mentioned initially they want to
:10:12. > :10:16.ask him did he know certain individuals. After him saying he
:10:16. > :10:20.didn't know the individuals, what he said is they asked him whether
:10:20. > :10:24.he would be interested in working for them. Did you think he did end
:10:24. > :10:27.up doing any work for them or not? No, he was explicit in that, he
:10:27. > :10:30.refused to work for them. He did confirm that he didn't know the
:10:30. > :10:36.individuals that they asked him whether he knew. There is a lot of
:10:36. > :10:39.allegations there. We will come to them in a second. On the MI5 point
:10:39. > :10:42.a lot of people will be thinking that is MI5 doing their job?
:10:42. > :10:47.Absolutely, we have no way of verifying this, of course. What I
:10:47. > :10:52.would say, in general terms, is that Security Services will of
:10:53. > :10:56.course approach people to provide information or even act as covert
:10:56. > :11:01.sources. This is part of the work they do more generally. I don't
:11:01. > :11:08.think we can expect them to comment on this case specifically. In
:11:08. > :11:10.general terms, it is not out of the ordinary to expect the Security
:11:11. > :11:14.Services approach people for information. What we heard about
:11:14. > :11:20.Kenya. Kenya for some people is a tourist destination, for others it
:11:20. > :11:25.is a route into Somalia and to joining Al-Shabab, an Al-Qaeda
:11:25. > :11:31.affiliate, and Kenya itself has a severe terrorist problem?
:11:31. > :11:34.certainly is. On this man's account we hear he was picked up by the
:11:34. > :11:38.Kenyan authorities. We have no way of substantiating this at the
:11:38. > :11:41.moment. It is plausible as a story. One could say that. We will have to
:11:41. > :11:45.wait and see whether we can actually get other coroborating
:11:45. > :11:50.evidence to back it up. In terms of your interviewee, Abu Nusaybah,
:11:50. > :11:56.what was his reaction to these horrific events a couple of days
:11:56. > :12:01.ago. If he knew, would he have done anything to stop something like
:12:01. > :12:08.this? He was quite clear in the interview. He is quite open about
:12:08. > :12:12.having been influenced by Al- Muhajiroun, this Islamist group in
:12:12. > :12:16.the past and its leaders in the past. He was clear tonight that if
:12:16. > :12:20.he had been told, which he wasn't, about any plans for these horrific
:12:20. > :12:24.violent attacks, he would have done his best to dissuade this young man
:12:24. > :12:28.from carrying those out. He says it is not justified. His reaction to
:12:28. > :12:31.what he saw was horror that everybody else had? He tells me he
:12:31. > :12:36.was horrified by it. He couldn't believe it when he saw the images.
:12:36. > :12:39.He couldn't believe this was the young man he used to hang around
:12:40. > :12:43.with in 2003, he was very, very shocked, so he says.
:12:43. > :12:48.Thank you very much. For some more perspective on this we have been
:12:48. > :12:55.looking at some of the ways in which the Government and
:12:55. > :12:58.communities shrb trying to take on -- have been trying to take on
:12:58. > :13:02.radical Islamists in communities. East London, one of the areas the
:13:02. > :13:05.Government believes is most likely to be a breeding ground for
:13:05. > :13:10.extremism. Up a narrow flight of stairs beside a mosque is a project
:13:10. > :13:17.the state has invested in as part of its key counter terrorism plan,
:13:17. > :13:22.the Prevent Strategy. It is a youth club. The Active Change Foundation,
:13:22. > :13:25.games and other activities are a tool to draw mostly disaffected,
:13:25. > :13:29.mainly Muslim people in off the streets, listen to their problems
:13:29. > :13:32.and engage them in discussion. the last period of ten years we
:13:32. > :13:36.have built up such a relationship within the community and the young
:13:36. > :13:41.people, we are recognised, if you like, the middle people between the
:13:41. > :13:48.authorities and the young people. The young people have learned to
:13:48. > :13:54.trust us in the past years. Prevent Strategy was set up after
:13:54. > :13:59.the 2005 London bombings to try to tack the radicalisation of Muslim
:13:59. > :14:03.youth, by integration and argument. But for place like this, Muslim
:14:03. > :14:07.workers say, there would be far more extremists than those
:14:07. > :14:12.suspected of the murder in Woolich. If people are angered by the
:14:12. > :14:14.foreign policy, one thing is they might see on the internet or on the
:14:14. > :14:18.news a situation someone has taken things into their own hands and
:14:18. > :14:22.gone and do this. We say that is wrong. If you are against foreign
:14:22. > :14:26.policy this is not the way to deal with it. This is not the way to
:14:26. > :14:30.tackle it. But state funding for this project and others was cut
:14:30. > :14:34.back when the coalition Government came to power. That followed
:14:34. > :14:36.criticism that Prevent was unfocused and it sometimes even
:14:36. > :14:40.subsidised the very extremist organisations it should have been
:14:40. > :14:44.confronting. That's not stopped youth workers
:14:44. > :14:48.here getting on their bikes every day. Even in the rain to engage
:14:48. > :14:52.with young people in parks and on street corners and to find out what
:14:52. > :14:57.they are thinking. They didn't want us to follow them, because of
:14:57. > :15:01.course it is bad for their credibility to be seen with outside
:15:01. > :15:04.authority figures. That points up one of the difficulties of the
:15:04. > :15:08.whole programme, it is about integration but also intelligence
:15:08. > :15:11.gathering. Some people think that is not a very comfortable
:15:11. > :15:15.combination. Prevent has to avoid being seen as
:15:15. > :15:20.a form of state snooping. But on the other hand, to be an effective
:15:20. > :15:25.counter terrorism policy, it has to help identify potentially dangerous
:15:25. > :15:31.extremists. You are listening and if you hear,
:15:31. > :15:35.or any of the outreach workers hear things that worry them. Yep.
:15:35. > :15:39.terms of inclination towards terrorism and extremism, do you
:15:39. > :15:44.report that, and to who? We don't need to report that. We bring those
:15:44. > :15:49.young people into our sent, -- centre, we talk to them, we have
:15:49. > :15:51.workshops, depending on the issue out on the street with the young
:15:51. > :15:55.person. We have developed a relationship with our young people.
:15:55. > :15:59.They do trust us. So when they are angry and upset about something
:15:59. > :16:02.they do voice it out to us, they might not do it with anybody else.
:16:02. > :16:07.Isn't it your duty to report that as part of the strategy? Report
:16:07. > :16:11.what, what are we supposed to be reporting, when someone's life is
:16:11. > :16:14.in danger. Report that someone might have an inclination towards
:16:14. > :16:17.terrorism? Absolutely right. But when we talk to young people out
:16:17. > :16:21.there, they are angry and upset, they have a right to be an and
:16:21. > :16:25.upset about that, they are not telling me they will do something
:16:25. > :16:27.bad. What will I try to report, what are you asking me. In practice
:16:27. > :16:31.they do sometimes exchange information with the authorities.
:16:31. > :16:37.Of course the most dangerous people may be off the radar of projects
:16:37. > :16:42.like this. In the wake of the Woolich killing, the project's head,
:16:42. > :16:45.has rushed back early from a trip to Pakistan. He's afraid some
:16:45. > :16:48.extremists will now try to copy Wednesday's atrocity. He can't
:16:48. > :16:53.confront them because the Government is nervous about letting
:16:53. > :17:00.organisations like his tackle the most incendiary preachers in debate.
:17:00. > :17:05.It has become very risk adverse. This is a risky business. We as an
:17:05. > :17:09.organisation have set our up tole challenge the problem. We know the
:17:09. > :17:14.-- to challenge the problem. We know there are risks in this but we
:17:14. > :17:20.have to challenge the people head on. Has the Prevent project failed,
:17:20. > :17:23.because the scope has been too narrow. Prevent was lacking in
:17:23. > :17:26.ambition, it only concerned itself with violent extremism and looked
:17:26. > :17:31.at intervening at that point. They should have been going much further
:17:31. > :17:35.downstream and looking at people who espouse extremist views. As we
:17:35. > :17:40.have seen in Woolich, people who hold extremist views then go on to
:17:40. > :17:42.commit terrorist attacks. We need to be doing into that sub culture
:17:42. > :17:46.of extremism, which preaches separation and confrontation with
:17:46. > :17:51.British society and with our values and working on people at that stage.
:17:51. > :17:56.Once they go operational it is too late. Community engagment like this
:17:56. > :17:58.may have prevented some attacks. But it hasn't solved the problem of
:17:58. > :18:03.radicalisation. As we have seen this week, the price of getting it
:18:03. > :18:09.wrong is very high. I'm joined now to discuss this by
:18:09. > :18:14.the CEO of the Active Change Foundation, you saw that in the
:18:14. > :18:19.film. We have the research and policy director for a think-tank
:18:19. > :18:23.helping to advise the Government on tackling on-line extremism. You
:18:23. > :18:26.heard our discussion with Richard Watson earlier and the interview. I
:18:26. > :18:30.wondered if that pattern seemed familiar to you? The pattern of
:18:30. > :18:36.somebody who seemed to fit in at one point to British society, and
:18:36. > :18:41.then didn't? Yeah, if you look back at some of the cases that we have
:18:41. > :18:44.uncovered in the past, the airline plot, some of the guys in the 7/7
:18:44. > :18:48.bombings, a similar pattern. Very involved in mainstream, and all of
:18:48. > :18:52.a sudden they have excluded themselves from society.
:18:52. > :18:56.Guardian has pretty much on the same theme, a crackdown on the
:18:56. > :19:00.preachers of hate as soldier families grieve. How do you do
:19:00. > :19:03.that? Crack down on the preachers of hate if so far under British law
:19:03. > :19:07.they are not committing any offence? It is difficult. They are
:19:07. > :19:12.not committing any offence, if we look back and the amount of times
:19:12. > :19:16.that Anjem Choudary and his like have been associated to terrorist
:19:16. > :19:20.plots and violent extremist individuals, there comes a point
:19:20. > :19:23.when you have to say what do we do with these guy. First of all the
:19:23. > :19:28.communities they operate within, I will give you an example in Waltham
:19:28. > :19:35.Forest, or in Birmingham, you have a number of mosques preaching Islam
:19:35. > :19:41.on a daily basis, why does a third party, someone unknown and not a
:19:41. > :19:45.legitimate scholar coming into the area and preaching a warped version
:19:45. > :19:49.of Islam. But you don't have to leave your house to see this stuff.
:19:49. > :19:53.The Government would say the communications data Bill, at least
:19:53. > :19:56.the Conservatives in the Government would say that is a way forward,
:19:56. > :20:01.but it isn't going forward? Internet is playing a larger role
:20:01. > :20:03.in more and more cases. We have to take it seriously and something the
:20:03. > :20:06.Governments right across Europe and North America are looking at. There
:20:06. > :20:12.is two different elements to this, one around the negative measures
:20:13. > :20:17.you can take. Getting stuff offline that is on-line, the filtering, the
:20:17. > :20:25.take-down approach. When you think about the fact that extremists are
:20:25. > :20:32.now moving towards social media member site, and there are five
:20:32. > :20:35.billion new pieces of data uploaded to Facebook, and the same to
:20:35. > :20:39.YouTube, there is extreme limitations to that approach. Much
:20:39. > :20:45.more focus needs to be put on how you can get the 99% of us who are
:20:45. > :20:50.the good guys more active on-line, challenging, disrupting and how you
:20:50. > :20:53.can use creative approaches to drown out the noise that the 1% are
:20:53. > :20:58.making. That is interesting that implies that there is a bat of
:20:58. > :21:04.ideas, but one side is really -- a battle of ideas but one side is
:21:04. > :21:09.fighting it and the other side aren't? 99% are good guys and 1%
:21:09. > :21:15.aren't, but they shout the loudest and have the clearest message. We
:21:15. > :21:20.need to rouse that 99%. Of course people will concentrate on those
:21:20. > :21:23.who will be violent or they think may be prone to violence, but it
:21:23. > :21:28.may be the people who won't do anything violent who are just as
:21:28. > :21:32.dangerous, if not more, because they incite it? This is why I think
:21:32. > :21:39.community outreach and engagment programmes are important. Talking
:21:39. > :21:42.about issues, contentious issues like Afghanistan and other things,
:21:42. > :21:46.things that are angering our young people. We need to have engagment
:21:46. > :21:49.in the hope we come across extremist views. It does arouse
:21:49. > :21:54.those individuals to speak about it and those who are silent. It is our
:21:54. > :21:59.job to filter out who we need to work more with and who we don't.
:21:59. > :22:02.This is a horrific crime, but is this a watershed moment? I don't
:22:02. > :22:05.think it is a watershed, we have seen examples like this over the
:22:05. > :22:09.last five or so years in the terrorism domain. This isn't a new
:22:09. > :22:14.thing. We have seen things like this in other European countries. I
:22:14. > :22:19.think we are definitely going to be seeing a shift to these kinds of
:22:19. > :22:22.low tech attacks more often. small groups? Partly because our
:22:22. > :22:27.police and Intelligence Services have been effective at tackling
:22:27. > :22:32.more sophisticated plots. What is different here, I beg beg to differ,
:22:32. > :22:36.is these guys have set a precedent. They have apologised to the women
:22:36. > :22:40.and children and females, they have stragically attacked a military
:22:40. > :22:44.target. And what that has done is given them legitimacy. So other
:22:44. > :22:47.people who have got similar views and similar sentiments now see that
:22:47. > :22:50.as they have done right. They haven't attacked any innocent
:22:50. > :22:54.person, in their view they have attacked a person with a military
:22:54. > :22:57.background. That's worrying. will leave it there, thank you both
:22:57. > :23:01.very much. Big change of gear, and the hot tip
:23:01. > :23:08.for the Palme D'Or at the Cannes Film Festival this weekend is a
:23:08. > :23:18.black comedy about the private life about lib a mucy, the director won
:23:18. > :23:18.
:23:18. > :23:21.at -- Liberace, Stephen Sodenberg said this film will be his last
:23:22. > :23:24.because Hollywood wouldn't back his story, apparently it is too gay for
:23:24. > :23:29.the cinema audience. It will be released on cable in the United
:23:29. > :23:32.States and will appear in UK cinemas next month. We have been to
:23:32. > :23:42.the south of France for an exclusive interview with the
:23:42. > :23:45.
:23:45. > :23:50.director. You may have heard reports from the Cannes Film
:23:50. > :23:56.Festival that a lot of the bling has gone missing, but hello, I
:23:56. > :24:00.don't think so. I know someone in the audience who preerts this!
:24:00. > :24:10.Michael Douglas's performance as the spaingled virto sow, Liberace,
:24:10. > :24:10.
:24:10. > :24:15.has been the talk of France. When I was working saloons in Milwaukee,
:24:15. > :24:19.they called them saloons, that is how old I am. I'm from Wisconsin
:24:19. > :24:29.too. No, you are, well this must be fate.
:24:29. > :24:29.
:24:29. > :24:33.Newsnight met the director, Stephen Sodeberg, at his arduous Riviera
:24:33. > :24:38.billet. Thank you for inviting us to this summer house you have going
:24:39. > :24:43.here. It is a tough job and somebody has to do it! It is brutal
:24:43. > :24:47.but I soldier on. I suppose we are old enough to remember Liberace in
:24:47. > :24:55.his prime, watching your film it came back to me how extraordinary
:24:55. > :24:59.that was. He really was the sort of you know, the Godfather of bling.
:24:59. > :25:06.Absolutely. He really singlehandedly created the idea of
:25:06. > :25:13.bling, and the idea that a performer could sort of be so
:25:13. > :25:16.extravagant. When he was alive, and the world and its laws were rather
:25:16. > :25:22.different, the story about Liberace was that he just hadn't met the
:25:22. > :25:29.right girl! In fact, it wasn't only the ief rees he tickled. The new
:25:29. > :25:33.film -- ivories he tickled, the new film is based on the memoirs of his
:25:33. > :25:41.lover, Scott. Jack I want to talk about doing surgery on Scott here.
:25:41. > :25:47.Fine, what would you like me to do with Scott? I want you to make
:25:47. > :25:53.Scott look like this! This won't be shown in American cinemas, is it
:25:53. > :25:57.too gay for conservative Hollywood. Oh I see, yes I think I can do what
:25:57. > :26:04.you want. You're going to need a nose job. It was more frustrating
:26:04. > :26:09.than anything else. I understood the, I understood the economic
:26:09. > :26:14.issue that they were concerned that there wasn't an audience for the
:26:14. > :26:18.film beyond a gay audience. I didn't share that belief, but
:26:18. > :26:22.that's certainly how they felt. But it was more frustrating, I just
:26:22. > :26:28.thought we didn't need, we had financed the movie almost entirely
:26:28. > :26:33.out of foreign. We only needed add small amount, and I thought we had
:26:33. > :26:37.a great script and we had Michael and Matt. I was surprised. You have
:26:37. > :26:42.Hollywood full of gay stars who don't wish to appear as gay and you
:26:42. > :26:49.are casting well known straight actors in these parts? I don't know,
:26:49. > :26:54.I'm hoping that some day all these discussions will become irrelevant,
:26:54. > :27:04.you know. And that people won't care in the same way that
:27:04. > :27:04.
:27:04. > :27:10.ultimately even after the story broke of Scott and L i in the
:27:10. > :27:15.tabloids nobody cared. I have never been in casting session everywhere
:27:15. > :27:23.somebody's personal sexual preference was ever discussed as a
:27:23. > :27:33.topic. I think, hmmm, black piano, black tuxedo, who is going to see
:27:33. > :27:36.
:27:36. > :27:43.me in this giant clam shell! Well I ask you, can you see me now?
:27:43. > :27:49.unimprovably titled, Behind The Candelabra arrives smack in the
:27:49. > :27:55.middle of the gay marriage debate. The fact that it will arrive at a
:27:55. > :27:59.key inflex in the whole discussion point is interesting. I'm not a big
:27:59. > :28:08.believer in the idea that movies really influence that kind of
:28:08. > :28:12.decision making for people. I'm glad right now that the movey will
:28:12. > :28:18.be viewed through that lens of what is happening socially with this
:28:18. > :28:25.issue. Why don't you let me tape you? Doing what? Talking. About
:28:25. > :28:28.what? The director won at Cannes with his debut feeture, Sex Lies
:28:28. > :28:38.and Videotape, a benchmark in independent cinema. Now he says
:28:38. > :28:43.he's turning in his bullhorn and Darren Jolly purrs. -- jolpurs. Has
:28:43. > :28:48.Hollywood got in the way of making movies? That is one of a handful of
:28:48. > :28:56.things that got me thinking about five years ago that I would like to
:28:56. > :28:59.have an exit strategy. My own feeling that I would like to stop,
:28:59. > :29:03.destroy everything I have done and see if I can rebuild and come out
:29:03. > :29:06.from a completely different angle and become primitive again. I don't
:29:06. > :29:11.know if that is possible, I don't know if you can consciously do that,
:29:11. > :29:21.but I'm going to try. You are tweeting a novel, is this true?
:29:21. > :29:26.
:29:26. > :29:29.trying to take advantage of its I'm not sure how but there is a
:29:29. > :29:34.muscle being exercised in this experiment that I know is connected
:29:34. > :29:38.to me trying to figure out the next version of me as a film maker.
:29:38. > :29:42.don't wake up in the night frightened that they won't let you
:29:42. > :29:47.back into this fabulous sweet shop. This fabulous dream factory and
:29:47. > :29:51.they will say sorry, you turned your back on movies, good luck with
:29:51. > :29:54.that Twitter thing, but the door is closed, my friend. I would be fine
:29:54. > :29:58.with that. I never imagined that all of this would happen to me,
:29:58. > :30:07.that I would have gone this far, been able to make as many films as
:30:07. > :30:14.I have and be able to control them. That's, I have had plenty of fun.
:30:14. > :30:24.Aren't you sweet! Not bad for an old bag, huh?
:30:24. > :30:36.
:30:36. > :30:39.A quick look at two of the front That's it for Newsnight, we are
:30:39. > :30:49.back on Tuesday, enjoy the bank back on Tuesday, enjoy the bank
:30:49. > :31:11.
:31:11. > :31:15.Good evening, it's a bank holiday weekend, and for once it looks like
:31:15. > :31:18.the weather want to play along, at least forea while. For Saturday
:31:18. > :31:23.much dryer and brighter for England and Wales on Friday. Much warmer as
:31:23. > :31:25.well and with a much lighter wind. Another pretty decent day across
:31:25. > :31:29.the majority of Scotland and Northern Ireland as well. A really
:31:29. > :31:35.big contrast for England and Wales after the cold wind and rain on
:31:35. > :31:39.Friday. Some fairly recent sunshine and highs of 15, 16 and 17 on
:31:39. > :31:41.Saturday. Just a little cooler along the east coast with the winds
:31:41. > :31:45.feeding off the North Sea. For Scotland and Northern Ireland,
:31:45. > :31:50.plenty of sunshine on the whole. Particularly around the Moray firth,
:31:50. > :31:53.highs of 17, 18. Cloud in the west, we could see rain on and off the
:31:53. > :31:58.likes of the Western Isles from time to time. Sunday still looks
:31:58. > :32:01.like a pretty reasonable day. Particularly by bank holiday
:32:02. > :32:05.weekend standards, for the bulk of the UK. A bit more cloud sitting
:32:05. > :32:08.towards the North West. Perhaps not that much sunshine to be found
:32:08. > :32:11.during the day across Scotland and Northern Ireland. Any rain here
:32:11. > :32:15.should be fairly light and patchy. For England and Wales, the best of
:32:15. > :32:20.the sunshine towards the west, highs of 20 degrees, a bit more