:00:11. > :00:16.Tonight, the Woolwich backlash, something the police and
:00:16. > :00:19.politicians feared might happen, but has there been a rise in
:00:19. > :00:23.attacks on Muslim people or premises since the murder of Lee
:00:23. > :00:33.Rigby? For poor old sod off he jabs being
:00:33. > :00:34.
:00:34. > :00:40.pulled off, abusive language. We asked the police adviser, and he
:00:41. > :00:47.claims the incidents of hate crimes has risen significantly. It also,
:00:47. > :00:50.the BBC's Frank Gardner goes to Los Angeles to see how doctors are
:00:50. > :00:55.repaired and lives damaged by gunfire on the mean streets.
:00:55. > :00:59.The aces both weird and fascinating for May, because this is how or why
:00:59. > :01:06.would have been brought in, scooped up nine years ago, when I was
:01:06. > :01:11.shocked. Also, killer robots.
:01:11. > :01:16.From drones to the pitiless technology of robots, they could be
:01:16. > :01:19.the next big thing in warfare. Should they be banned? And, the
:01:19. > :01:29.author of Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus on his latest book
:01:29. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :01:37.on the battle of the sexes, this Could it meant. Formerly a years,
:01:37. > :01:41.when terrorists struck a Northern Ireland, people talked about the
:01:41. > :01:44.politics of the last atrocity, the revulsion and anger which sometimes
:01:44. > :01:49.turns to hate and a cycle of violence.
:01:49. > :01:53.Police and politicians for read about a possible backlash over the
:01:54. > :01:58.murder of Lee Rigby fear the result could be attacks directed on Muslim
:01:58. > :02:08.communities. We have established some evidence that there has been
:02:08. > :02:11.
:02:11. > :02:15.such a backlash, although it may be a temporary blip. We asked Mohammed
:02:15. > :02:19.Khaliel to compare the dumpers of reports of harassment and crimes
:02:19. > :02:24.against Muslim in the past week with those of a normal week. Here
:02:24. > :02:28.is his report. It is like one of those events,
:02:28. > :02:34.where you stop doing what you what the wind. I must have been thinking
:02:34. > :02:40.what every single Muslim was thinking, my God, please, do not
:02:40. > :02:45.let it be a Muslim. I have been a community advocate, including in
:02:45. > :02:53.High Wycombe, for a number of years. I took to the streets to find out
:02:53. > :03:01.how the community feel a week after the Woolwich murder. I had heard of
:03:01. > :03:07.reports of women being spat. Language, and racial abuse, it is a
:03:07. > :03:16.culture of fear, but are not blame them for not reporting it. They are
:03:16. > :03:22.suffering in silence? Absolute glee. Who is stoking the fear? The EDL
:03:22. > :03:27.protested at the weekend, that is what has made it worse. People who
:03:27. > :03:35.may not have heard about them, bait are aware there is a group of
:03:35. > :03:43.people that are so against them, they can foist such horrible things.
:03:43. > :03:47.That is why there is a fear culture. How do we know our neighbour does
:03:47. > :03:57.not share the same few? Have you have any incidents since last
:03:57. > :03:58.
:03:58. > :04:08.Thursday? A couple of other drivers have. Fur abilities? Yes. -- verbal
:04:08. > :04:11.
:04:12. > :04:16.abuse? Decor must terrorists, -- they call us terrorists. But do not
:04:16. > :04:22.know where they come from or what they are to wind. The cannot
:04:22. > :04:30.understand why Muslims will allow extremists in their mosque, that
:04:30. > :04:36.his it. But no mosque allows that. Extremist preaching is done
:04:36. > :04:43.privately, out of mosques. You tell me that. But to the greater
:04:43. > :04:49.audience understand that the vast majority of Muslims are not
:04:49. > :04:53.interested? He read that people are afraid of reporting incidents to
:04:53. > :04:57.the police, I headed to the secret headquarters of a confidential
:04:58. > :05:03.Muslim hot line. The collect evidence that goes to the police,
:05:03. > :05:10.so they can act on it. We can analyse what is happening to across
:05:10. > :05:16.the country. The taxi drivers say they suffer races and, late night
:05:16. > :05:23.catering industry workers also suffer prejudice. After a street
:05:23. > :05:30.level, our findings are mainly around Muslim -- visible Muslim
:05:30. > :05:36.women, they suffered verbal abuse. Last but not least, mosques, which
:05:36. > :05:45.are seen as a symbolic reflection of the community, they are targeted.
:05:45. > :05:55.On 21st May, 800 cases, but they have been 200 since then. Hate
:05:55. > :06:00.
:06:00. > :06:08.crime, heat speech. One concert is a heat incidents, -- one is hate
:06:08. > :06:16.incidents. One of them reads, kill them, kill them all. This is
:06:16. > :06:22.somebody inciting murder. Complete Lee. It is a sense of projecting a
:06:22. > :06:30.complex, new ones answers to social problems, and governed for violent,
:06:30. > :06:34.just kill people. This is, and rhetoric, these are just once I
:06:34. > :06:39.have picked out from the last few days. I've discussed what I had
:06:39. > :06:43.heard and with the commander of policing in Woolwich. We came
:06:43. > :06:49.across people who had either heard of all were aware of people that
:06:49. > :06:59.had suffered what could be classed as racial crime since the events of
:06:59. > :07:04.Woolwich. They put up with the abuse. Why do you think that is? I
:07:04. > :07:08.to not know, you would have to speak to them, but a lot of crimes
:07:08. > :07:16.are under-reported, there is sometimes a perception that the
:07:16. > :07:20.police will not take it further. But we do. The commitment of 500
:07:20. > :07:26.police officers in London to deal with hate crimes is significant,
:07:26. > :07:31.because we recognise the impact it could have on people's lives.
:07:31. > :07:41.for the police say, many Muslims are still extremely reluctant to
:07:41. > :07:53.
:07:53. > :07:58.come forward, even with the current I went and what you make of that,
:07:58. > :08:04.were they to think that is diffident, and whether it tends to
:08:04. > :08:08.be a blip? He tends to be an emotional reaction to the events
:08:08. > :08:13.that we sought in Woolwich last week, as their boss after the
:08:13. > :08:20.bombings in 2005. But there is a temporary increase in reported
:08:20. > :08:26.Islam a phobia. It tends to peter out as we go forward. Along with
:08:26. > :08:30.all sorts of other hate crimes, racist attacks on black people,
:08:30. > :08:38.homophobic attacks on gay and lesbian people, there is under
:08:38. > :08:47.reporting that. There is under reporting of these attacks. But
:08:48. > :08:53.after the seventh July it went down. If you look at this as a proportion
:08:53. > :09:00.of overall crime, it is a very small proportion. What did you make
:09:00. > :09:05.of this? Is it significant? After every successful terrorist attack,
:09:05. > :09:15.especially those against symbols of a national identity, somebody in
:09:15. > :09:15.
:09:15. > :09:20.the Army, there is usually a spike in this type of crime. But we need
:09:20. > :09:29.to bear in mind that overall, the British public is tolerant towards
:09:29. > :09:33.Islam. There is an interesting statistic, in 2000, 14% of the
:09:34. > :09:41.British public said they did not want to have a Muslim as a
:09:41. > :09:48.neighbour, that put us in the top one or two in Europe, but in 2008,
:09:48. > :09:54.that percentage had gone down to 13%. All of these events have not
:09:54. > :09:58.changed public opinion at all. The same thing will happen here. What
:09:58. > :10:05.do you think about tweets which people can find her at full? Of a
:10:05. > :10:12.significant? That is a good question. Something that is under
:10:12. > :10:17.reported it is the number of very abusive, vitriolic, often targeted
:10:17. > :10:23.threats towards Muslims online. There is a huge amount of that
:10:23. > :10:28.taking place. That is a fairly new phenomenon. In 2005, that was not
:10:28. > :10:34.around at all. If you look at the English Defence League, they are
:10:34. > :10:39.receiving a huge a matter for peace as well, and there is a danger that
:10:39. > :10:47.both sides of radicalise each other and spur each of the order.
:10:47. > :10:54.pursue that, isn't it just a few obsessives who tweet constantly?
:10:54. > :10:58.You see tens of thousands of trolls. A There is a certain number of
:10:58. > :11:06.people who just take pleasure in defending as many people as they
:11:06. > :11:10.can. You have seen a surge in this, but some of this is to offend
:11:10. > :11:15.intentionally, less of it is targeted and aggressive. The key
:11:15. > :11:24.question is, do you think that Muslim people in this country on
:11:24. > :11:30.living in fear of a backlash? the report today, Muslims are
:11:30. > :11:39.living in a fear of backlash, by putting up with hate crime,
:11:39. > :11:42.criminal acts. And if not engaging. A lot of people in different
:11:42. > :11:47.committees said the Muslim communities have to do more to it
:11:47. > :11:51.ejects some of these nasty characters. This is where the
:11:51. > :11:59.Muslim Committee would say, whenever a Christian or non-Muslim
:11:59. > :12:05.does a horrible crime, like David Copeland, we did not say, you have
:12:05. > :12:10.to start ejecting everybody in your community. Why is it the Muslim
:12:10. > :12:17.Committee? People did with the Irish community during the IRA
:12:17. > :12:21.bombings. The then reflect it was not a great position. What the
:12:21. > :12:28.Irish went through, the Muslim community are going through.
:12:28. > :12:35.free learned? It is an interesting point, the far right in this
:12:35. > :12:41.country are also the victims of hate speech, sometimes they are
:12:42. > :12:48.beaten up, and sometimes they cannot march where they want to. Is
:12:48. > :12:54.that fair? Course, because what the police want to do is for there to
:12:54. > :12:59.be peace, no conflict, no violence. If you allow people to demonstrate
:12:59. > :13:03.in that way who advocate violence against people who are different
:13:03. > :13:08.from the majority, that is not something we would want to
:13:08. > :13:14.encourage. A these groups would say they do not advocate that, they say
:13:14. > :13:20.they feel threatened by changes in the community, people living next
:13:20. > :13:26.door. They have got the right to say that, but it is the way in
:13:26. > :13:31.which they say it. If you allow them to march through... The BNP
:13:31. > :13:37.want to march through Lewisham, three are trying to encourage the
:13:37. > :13:43.police to prevent that, because it is a symbolic location, there are
:13:43. > :13:48.large ethnic minorities, and there is likely to be conflict. When we
:13:48. > :13:52.talk about the FA Vite, which are over-egging it, because it is a
:13:52. > :13:58.different picture from France or other countries. Across Europe, the
:13:58. > :14:05.strength of the far right is much more significant than it is here.
:14:05. > :14:13.It is important to be seen to treat all groups equally. The EDL has a
:14:13. > :14:18.right to march, Islamists have a right to march, because otherwise,
:14:18. > :14:22.people play the free speech card, and that is what they want. I must
:14:22. > :14:26.come back about whether the Muslim community should come out and
:14:26. > :14:31.denounce these. It is not their responsibility, but if somebody was
:14:31. > :14:37.using my religion as an excuse to commit terrible acts, I would want
:14:37. > :14:44.to be saying that Act was wrong. That is absolutely the point, that
:14:44. > :14:47.person claimed to be full of wind Islam, and a week ask anybody to
:14:47. > :14:55.show wage you can drive a car and take an innocent life in that
:14:55. > :15:05.manner. Even in times of war, the Koran says you cannot harm trees,
:15:05. > :15:13.
:15:13. > :15:18.women, children. There are strict I just wonder if the point of this
:15:18. > :15:22.then is that people who do want us to live together as a society, come
:15:22. > :15:25.along to meetings and discuss it, but on the fringes, there are
:15:25. > :15:27.people and Muslim extremists and some on the far-right who don't
:15:27. > :15:32.want that and they are not contactable and there is nothing
:15:32. > :15:35.you could have done as a police officer to bring them together?
:15:35. > :15:40.There are people who are mainstream Muslims. There are people who have
:15:40. > :15:46.extreme views around Islam, but there is this third group who are
:15:46. > :15:49.violent terrorists, who are also radical and we have to
:15:49. > :15:53.differentiate between those who are intent on violence and those people
:15:53. > :15:56.who are just radical on the far- right and and amongst the people in
:15:56. > :16:03.the Islamic community. Thank you very much.
:16:03. > :16:06.Now, the surgery of violence. The astonishing amount of gun violence
:16:06. > :16:09.in the United States means that American doctors have had more
:16:09. > :16:11.experience than any others in peace time of putting back together
:16:11. > :16:13.bodies severely damaged by bullets and there have been some
:16:13. > :16:16.extraordinary advances. We asked the BBC's security correspondent,
:16:16. > :16:19.Frank Gardner, who was himself shot by Islamist extremists in Saudi
:16:19. > :16:22.Arabia to go to Los Angeles and give his assessment of some of the
:16:22. > :16:32.new techniques. We should warn you there are some graphic scenes in
:16:32. > :16:41.
:16:41. > :16:44.Los Angeles, California. Wealthy, glamorous and home to the world's
:16:44. > :16:54.entertainment industry. It is also the State with the highest gun
:16:54. > :16:54.
:16:54. > :17:02.murder rate in America. We have been given unique access to one of
:17:02. > :17:06.the busiest emergency trauma clinics in the country. We get a
:17:06. > :17:12.constant stream of gunshot victims coming through the door here. The
:17:12. > :17:19.city is home to over 400 gangs with over 40,000 members. They treat so
:17:19. > :17:29.many trauma cases in this city, the US Navy sends its medics to one of
:17:29. > :17:30.
:17:30. > :17:34.its hospitals for predeployment training.
:17:34. > :17:43.Midnight, and a casualty is coming in. It is a gunshot wound victim
:17:43. > :17:48.with life threatening injuries. This is Los Angeles County General,
:17:48. > :17:56.a State funded hospital in impoverished east La, serving the
:17:57. > :18:03.poor and uninsured and Latino population.
:18:03. > :18:08.He has multiple holes here. I am sorry. Its Its pioneering trauma
:18:08. > :18:13.unit is classed as level one. That means it provides the highest level
:18:13. > :18:23.of care. Those treated here have a 25% greater chance of survival than
:18:23. > :18:23.
:18:23. > :18:28.those at an ordinary hospital. One in the high. One in the groin
:18:28. > :18:33.and one in the buttocks. As a survivor of a gun attack myself, I
:18:33. > :18:36.have come to witness how the unit and its patients are impacted by
:18:36. > :18:40.the violence brought in from the surrounding streets.
:18:40. > :18:45.This is the second gunshot wound victim to be brought into this
:18:45. > :18:55.hospital tonight. It is just after midnight. This one is fatial stable,
:18:55. > :18:59.
:18:59. > :19:02.-- this one is is is fairly stable, but he has five bullet wounds.
:19:02. > :19:09.He was lucky to avoid more certificate jus injury when he was
:19:09. > :19:12.targetsed by gangs on his doorstep. -- avoid more serious injury when
:19:12. > :19:17.he was targeted by gangs on his doorstep.
:19:17. > :19:27.He ran. Dodged. Took one to the cheek and he got a graze on the
:19:27. > :19:35.
:19:35. > :19:42.I didn't know who they were. Random people. His mother along with his
:19:42. > :19:52.three-year-old sister, watched helpless as he was attacked.
:19:52. > :20:09.
:20:09. > :20:12.Feeling all extremities. TRANSLATION: She is saying that she
:20:12. > :20:14.was standing outside of her home watching her little three-year-old
:20:14. > :20:16.daughter when suddenly there was a black car that came by and they
:20:16. > :20:18.started shooting randomly at their, at her son. Who is the president?
:20:18. > :20:21.Obama. This is the reality of daily gun
:20:21. > :20:23.crime. A drive by shooting like this is not p going to make the
:20:23. > :20:28.headlines like the big recent massacres, but while we have been
:20:28. > :20:32.here, we have seen a stream of gunshot victims being brought in
:20:32. > :20:42.and that's because many are being caught up in the crossfire of a
:20:42. > :20:48.
:20:48. > :20:52.gang war fought out on the streets outside this hospital.
:20:52. > :20:56.Does your belly hurt? No, I'm good. This guy has been brought in off
:20:56. > :21:01.the streets here. He has been shot once through the the knee. They
:21:01. > :21:08.have searched him and only found one puncture wound. This is typical
:21:08. > :21:12.here, late at night in this County Hospital in Los Angeles. They are
:21:12. > :21:16.going to scan him now and do whatever they need to do tonight.
:21:16. > :21:21.He was brought in by the police and he is not saying much, but we are
:21:21. > :21:25.told he fits the profile of a gang member.
:21:25. > :21:30.Did he identify the people who shot him? No. He is not co-operating.
:21:30. > :21:36.Oh really? He is co-operative with them? Well, they are not the police.
:21:36. > :21:40.In parts of LA. Violent crime is too common, yet California already
:21:40. > :21:45.has some of the most stringent gun controls in the country. Some
:21:45. > :21:47.believe the way forward involves addressing the root cause of the
:21:48. > :21:57.problem, working with communities to prevent the violence before it
:21:58. > :22:01.
:22:01. > :22:11.starts. I am on bhi way to South -- I am on
:22:11. > :22:14.my way to South Central LA. Do what you have got to do. But we
:22:14. > :22:19.have got a fight fight over there. Highly they are working in the
:22:19. > :22:25.community trying to guide others towards a better life. What they
:22:25. > :22:27.are doing here, they are training all of these ex-gang members in how
:22:27. > :22:31.to deescalate a situation, stopping it getting out of control from
:22:32. > :22:40.somebody pulling out a gun and shooting somebody else.
:22:40. > :22:45.You work for me, is that clear? Get away from my school now. Go. When
:22:45. > :22:48.you look at a neighbourhood like this, you don't realise we are in
:22:48. > :22:54.the middle of a war zone. Gun violence decimates these
:22:54. > :22:58.communities. When you realise that 73.9% of the homicides are by guns,
:22:58. > :23:04.you will realise the impact of gun violence and until we get some
:23:04. > :23:08.control of not only the weapons themselves, but the mentality, we
:23:08. > :23:13.are going to be fighting a serious war that is going to take all our
:23:13. > :23:21.reserves and our energies to get in front of. America has an epidemic
:23:21. > :23:26.history, a history of epidemic gun violence, in Los Angeles, over
:23:26. > :23:30.25,000 people have been killed in LA county in gun violence. Over
:23:30. > :23:38.3,000 children have been shot in the last 30 years. Over 30% of the
:23:38. > :23:42.children who live in Los Angeles experience post-traumatic stress
:23:42. > :23:52.from violence. To answer your question, what does gun violence do
:23:52. > :23:56.to a community? It devastates it on many levels.
:23:56. > :24:01.A reunion for some of the hospital's most miraculous
:24:01. > :24:06.survivors from a host of different injuries. This doctor is the man
:24:06. > :24:15.many owe their lives to and has been head of trauma here for over
:24:15. > :24:19.20 years. Good day. Good morning. How are you? Are you all right?
:24:19. > :24:23.Advancement in surgical techniques and the cre agencies of level one
:24:23. > :24:27.trauma centres has significantly improved outcomes for gunshot wound
:24:27. > :24:31.victims. Gunshot wound patients who have
:24:31. > :24:36.been brought in here from being shot in east LA, am I right in
:24:36. > :24:40.thinking you used to in the old days, they would operate and do
:24:40. > :24:43.major surgery in the first 24 hours, but now, more of them are living
:24:43. > :24:49.because you are just stabilising and damage controlling them?
:24:49. > :24:55.Exactly. Now we learned to move in stages. First, we we stop the
:24:55. > :25:00.bleeding and we leave the abdomen open and stabilise the physiology
:25:01. > :25:06.of the patient and return to normal, the blood clots again which is
:25:06. > :25:14.usually 24, 36 hours later. We will go back to the operating room for
:25:14. > :25:22.repair. It made a huge difference for adom national injuries, --
:25:22. > :25:28.abdominal injuries and chest injuries and vascular injuries.
:25:28. > :25:31.In the operating theatre, the critical care surgeon is working on
:25:31. > :25:38.one of them. An unidentified male in a serious condition after being
:25:38. > :25:45.shot just an hour ago. There is another couple down here
:25:45. > :25:49.as well. So it looks like two separate gunshot wounds. Probably
:25:49. > :25:53.fired close together in time and hit him at two different spots. It
:25:53. > :26:01.is impossible if it went from this side to the back or this side up.
:26:01. > :26:05.So they are just detecting where the holes are right now. This is
:26:05. > :26:08.weird and fascinating for me because this is pretty how I would
:26:08. > :26:16.have been brought in, scooped up off the streets nine years ago when
:26:16. > :26:21.I was shot, but once you get over the initial kind of goriness of
:26:21. > :26:25.this and it is grizzly to look at, it is extraordinary just how
:26:26. > :26:30.quickly they operate. Following shootings in here, the
:26:30. > :26:38.United States is in the midst of one of the politically divisive
:26:38. > :26:46.debates in its history. Those who believe almost religiously in their
:26:46. > :26:50.right to have arms pitted against those who want tighter gun controls.
:26:50. > :26:55.Piers Morgan, an LA resident who received death threats after
:26:55. > :26:59.speaking out for tighter gun control knows how divisive this
:26:59. > :27:05.issue can be. America has 300 million guns in
:27:05. > :27:11.circulation. They are everywhere. You can walk into a Wal-Mart store
:27:11. > :27:15.here like Tesco's and you can see racks of guns on the walls. They
:27:15. > :27:20.are that easy to buy. Some would say this is a red
:27:20. > :27:24.herring because most of the gun crime in the US is carried out by
:27:24. > :27:27.criminals who have got the guns illegally. So gun control wouldn't
:27:27. > :27:31.stop them having the guns? Yes, there are various types of gun
:27:31. > :27:36.violence in America, but collectively they have the worst
:27:36. > :27:40.worst gun violence of any of the 23 industrialised richest countries in
:27:40. > :27:46.the world put together. We have been 30 and 40 gun deaths a year in
:27:46. > :27:52.Britain. America has between 11,000 and 12,000 gun murders and another
:27:52. > :28:00.18,000 gun suicides. 100,000 Americans get hit by gunfire every
:28:00. > :28:04.year now. The only reason the death rate isn't higher is because of the
:28:04. > :28:11.brilliance of the surgeons who can save more lives.
:28:11. > :28:14.Back The at the reunion, the families are treated to some
:28:14. > :28:20.unexpected light entertainment. Greg tells me how what began as an
:28:20. > :28:25.ordinary day turned into his worst nightmare.
:28:25. > :28:29.I got to visit a friend. Got out of my truck and that's all I remember.
:28:29. > :28:35.I ended up in hospital. Wow. You don't remember anybody
:28:35. > :28:40.coming at you. You had seven gunshot wounds. Seven gunshot
:28:40. > :28:44.wounds P. Where? One straight through my heart. You got shot
:28:44. > :28:50.through the heart? Through the heart. I got two in one leg. Two in
:28:50. > :28:56.the other leg. One through my private area and I have grazes on
:28:56. > :28:59.my arm and wrist. I was 223 days, I got out of the hospital on 4th July.
:28:59. > :29:02.A week later, I ended up getting kidney stones.
:29:02. > :29:06.Oh, I have had that. That is horrible. It is so painful. Have
:29:06. > :29:15.you got the zip sner. Yeah, I got the zipper.
:29:15. > :29:21.Let's see your zipper. Come on then!
:29:21. > :29:29.then! That's what mine looks like.
:29:29. > :29:35.We are just comparing zippers. This is a pathetic zipper. They are
:29:35. > :29:45.equally good! This is a pale shadow compared to yours. I like that one
:29:45. > :29:47.
:29:47. > :29:57.better. I was open for seven months. Well, it is glate you made such a
:29:57. > :30:03.
:30:03. > :30:09.good recovery. Well done. Fewer people are getting shot and
:30:09. > :30:13.surgery has vastly improved. But the violence has not on of way, and
:30:13. > :30:23.tonight, like every night, the team will be bracing themselves for more
:30:23. > :30:24.
:30:24. > :30:28.victims. Now, something completely different.
:30:28. > :30:33.Mike electronic friend is here because there are moves to plant a
:30:33. > :30:38.new generation of military robots that can attack and kill without
:30:38. > :30:43.total Cuban direction. It sounds like some thick outer for a
:30:43. > :30:48.Terminator movie, and they do not exist so far, but they have been
:30:48. > :30:53.described as the next revolution in military combat. Once activated,
:30:53. > :31:02.they can engage and kill targets without further human intervention.
:31:02. > :31:06.Christof Heyns is one of those who wants a global ban.
:31:06. > :31:13.In the past, they have been the basis for predictable sci-fi plots,
:31:13. > :31:18.but today they were discussed as a scary reality. Robots that can
:31:19. > :31:24.select, attacked and killed. Lethal autonomous robotics are seen as the
:31:24. > :31:28.next major revolution in warfare. They differ from drones, because
:31:28. > :31:33.once they have been programmed, they are not controlled by humans.
:31:33. > :31:40.The machine takes the decision to kill. Today there was the first
:31:40. > :31:45.international debate on their use at the Human Rights Council. There
:31:45. > :31:55.was a court for a worldwide moratorium. It is mechanical
:31:55. > :31:57.
:31:57. > :32:02.slaughter. In the same way as any loss of human life demands
:32:02. > :32:08.deliberation, this deserves a collective pause, a moratorium.
:32:08. > :32:11.This on robots are already used in warfare, like these. A British
:32:11. > :32:21.academic specialising in artificial intelligence explained his concerns
:32:21. > :32:22.
:32:22. > :32:26.about them. Systems get more and more autonomous, the way they move
:32:26. > :32:36.around, it we would have less knowledge about that, where it will
:32:36. > :32:42.make the engagement, soap we have increasing imprecision, with a
:32:42. > :32:49.decrease in the ability of the human to intervene. Robots can have
:32:49. > :32:52.many uses. In this research centre, they are experimenting with robotic
:32:52. > :32:58.manipulation, which it is hoped will have uses in disaster response
:32:58. > :33:03.or medicine. Nobody here wants this to be stopped, but it is recognised
:33:03. > :33:09.that such programmes could have military use. They could decide who
:33:10. > :33:14.to kill, but it is not helpful to focus on that, because the focus on
:33:14. > :33:18.that tends to encourage people to envisage a Terminator type robot
:33:18. > :33:26.that is coming out to kill them personally. This is not a future
:33:27. > :33:33.that any of us envisage. precursors of them are the drones,
:33:33. > :33:38.unmanned aerial vehicles, not autonomous, though the pilot may be
:33:38. > :33:42.thousands of miles away from the drone itself. They were originally
:33:42. > :33:48.intended for surveillance, but they are increasingly used to kill. They
:33:48. > :33:56.have been used from Afghanistan and Pakistan to Somalia. 369 reported
:33:56. > :34:01.train strikes took place between 2000 of four and 2013. 317 were
:34:01. > :34:06.under the Barack Obama administrations. 76 countries have
:34:06. > :34:12.technology, and 16 have armed capability, including the UK. But
:34:12. > :34:18.only a handful of working on fully autonomous weapons, including China,
:34:18. > :34:22.Israel, Russia, the UK and the USA. South Korea has set up sentry
:34:22. > :34:27.reports along to the demilitarised zone with North Korea. This raises
:34:27. > :34:35.questions about accountability. If civilians are killed by an
:34:35. > :34:42.autonomous robot, who should be charged? The book is responsible? -
:34:42. > :34:47.- who is responsible? That is an interesting question. Is it the
:34:47. > :34:55.programmers? Is it the military commanders who decided to use the
:34:55. > :35:00.robot? The technology for lethal autonomous robot is a driving fast.
:35:00. > :35:10.The United Nations rapporteur bonds a moratorium, military plans may
:35:10. > :35:16.
:35:16. > :35:23.Explain to us what your position is, given that these weapons do not
:35:23. > :35:29.actually exist yet. Our campaign is calling for an international treaty
:35:29. > :35:36.to prohibit fully autonomous weapons. We are concerned that they
:35:36. > :35:44.would be able to select targets and attacked those targets without any
:35:44. > :35:51.human control. They would be autonomous. There would be
:35:51. > :35:56.delegating decision-making powers to machines. We find this terrified.
:35:56. > :36:01.The machines could be deployed to the battlefield and taking
:36:01. > :36:09.decisions over life and death. They could not distinguish between
:36:09. > :36:12.combatants and civilians. It would be a scary prospect in a combat
:36:12. > :36:18.situation, reducing the protection of civilians. Did you think this is
:36:19. > :36:23.a step beyond the drains, which many people already think is
:36:24. > :36:29.immoral? This is a step beyond it, and perhaps a ban should be
:36:29. > :36:35.considered? A two not think it would be effective, because that is
:36:35. > :36:40.where the technology is going to go. This is going to be the future.
:36:40. > :36:46.is inevitable? Yes, we are committed have machines that are
:36:46. > :36:53.common to be autonomous. We already have machines that have a degree of
:36:53. > :36:58.semi autonomy. Think about the missile defences that Israel uses,
:36:59. > :37:04.that could be fully automated quite easily. It will definitely happen.
:37:04. > :37:11.I do not think this is inevitable. The discussions that we saw today
:37:11. > :37:16.at the Human Rights Council show that. The report from Christophe
:37:16. > :37:23.Hines Ward was calling for a moratorium. It was welcomed. It is
:37:23. > :37:28.good that we are having this debate and discussion, and the discus and
:37:28. > :37:31.-- discussions signalled there will be a process to prohibit these are.
:37:32. > :37:36.You talked about the miniature mechanics, would wonder about the
:37:36. > :37:43.political mechanics. If you were a prime minister or president and he
:37:43. > :37:50.was faced with a ball which is of limited risk to your politically,
:37:50. > :37:59.it might make conflict more likely. I am sceptical about this. Partly
:37:59. > :38:07.because we lack in to recall material on the occurrence of wars,
:38:07. > :38:12.and some people have argued this in the case of drones. But we still
:38:12. > :38:18.have conflicts like Syria, dot for, some of these weapons were already
:38:18. > :38:27.there. But as we know from Libya and other things, the United States
:38:27. > :38:33.in particular... This would benefit the advanced state better, and they
:38:33. > :38:39.might be more likely to do these things militarily. It is still a
:38:39. > :38:45.risky undertaking. Try flying a drone into Russia to kill somebody.
:38:45. > :38:54.There would be a backlash. But it might not necessarily be a bat
:38:54. > :39:02.think. If states -- it might not necessarily be bad if states went
:39:02. > :39:10.to war more often. It could stop genocide and Mussa Kussa. The --
:39:10. > :39:16.massacres. Certain acts could be stopped by the threat of this. That
:39:16. > :39:21.might prevent some conflicts. need to have clear roles over these
:39:21. > :39:27.weapons. The risks that we face with these weapons be induced by
:39:27. > :39:30.would change the nature of warfare in a very bad way. The best way to
:39:31. > :39:35.do this is to create a new international law that makes it
:39:35. > :39:40.clear that the operation of weapons systems needs to be under human
:39:40. > :39:50.control. The best way to do this is to develop a new international
:39:50. > :39:51.
:39:51. > :39:57.instrument that makes it clear. There is a bit of the Terminator
:39:57. > :40:02.factor, the human fear that human beings would no longer be in
:40:02. > :40:07.control. Human beings are in control in the end, somebody has to
:40:07. > :40:14.control the robot. This is sometimes presented in such a way
:40:14. > :40:18.that it appears as if the military is going to get rid of its
:40:18. > :40:24.procedures, the chain of command, the commitment to control and
:40:24. > :40:30.command. It sounds as if the military will abolish itself. It is
:40:30. > :40:33.not in their interest. Before the end of the programme, we
:40:33. > :40:40.will have the front pages. The first, Men Are From Mars, Women
:40:40. > :40:44.Are From Venus told -- sold 50 million copies worldwide and
:40:44. > :40:54.detritus and up the difficulties we have solving our personal
:40:54. > :40:54.
:40:54. > :41:00.relationships. His new book, Work With Me, takes it a step further.
:41:00. > :41:03.Just how different our men and women? For John Gray, very. In Men
:41:03. > :41:06.Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, he argued there are important
:41:06. > :41:16.differences between the sexes that we must understand for our
:41:16. > :41:21.
:41:21. > :41:26.relationships to work better. The The author is not about his critics,
:41:26. > :41:30.some say this may be popular, but it is simplistic and results to
:41:30. > :41:35.stereotypes. But now he has turned his attention to the workplace,
:41:35. > :41:39.claiming the Battle of the sexes is far from over, and has moved from
:41:39. > :41:45.bedroom to boardroom. His solution, overcoming the gender blind spots
:41:45. > :41:55.he and his coat off a have identified, including Dick, two
:41:55. > :42:02.
:42:02. > :42:12.These gender blind spot, to date Govan some of our conduct in the
:42:12. > :42:12.
:42:12. > :42:19.workplace? They create unnecessary tension. What we have seen, the
:42:19. > :42:23.stress hormone is women -- in women is much higher than men's, so we
:42:23. > :42:33.identified some of the frustration that women experience, so we asked
:42:33. > :42:40.them. The statistics, do women ask too many questions? Most men felt
:42:40. > :42:44.that they did, and women said they did not. It is a blind spot, we do
:42:44. > :42:49.not understand where we are coming from. If men understood, they could
:42:49. > :42:59.build trust with women by asking more questions, and women could ask
:42:59. > :43:00.
:43:01. > :43:08.their questions in a different way. Presumably, some men asked too many
:43:08. > :43:13.questions as well. That is part of life. Yes, but we are looking at
:43:13. > :43:19.averages. We are looking at appreciation, when Duke asked to
:43:19. > :43:26.win any, do women feel appreciated by a men, half of the women say no,
:43:26. > :43:36.but if you ask them if they appreciate women, 90% say yes.
:43:36. > :43:43.There is a disconnect. We have pointed out white women often feel
:43:43. > :43:47.-- why women often feel under- appreciated. I have wondered if the
:43:47. > :43:53.stereotyping is a complement, because you or stereotyping based
:43:53. > :44:01.on what is actually happening. is happening. In this case, we have
:44:01. > :44:06.the study to show it. It is not everybody that thinks this way, but
:44:06. > :44:12.we get 80 to 90% of women responding in a different way, and
:44:12. > :44:16.there is always the exception. We are trying to improve communication.
:44:16. > :44:22.If a woman thinks more like a man, she often gets to higher levels of
:44:22. > :44:29.a business. Other women wonder what is coming on. So understanding how
:44:29. > :44:37.each gender thinks can be helpful in the workplace. You say men tend
:44:37. > :44:40.to thrive on competition but women are appreciative of others.
:44:40. > :44:50.Margaret Thatcher thrived on competition. It is not entirely
:44:50. > :44:51.
:44:51. > :44:57.black and white. She was proud of beer and the Iron Lady. -- being
:44:57. > :45:03.the Iron Lady. Some women have testosterone like men. When you
:45:03. > :45:10.have testosterone, due thrive on competition. If you do not have it,
:45:10. > :45:14.competition raises your stress. Your average male has 30 times more
:45:14. > :45:21.testosterone than your average female. She is one of the
:45:21. > :45:31.exceptions. I am going to tell you what is in
:45:31. > :45:38.the morning papers, if I can get him not to kill me! They are all
:45:38. > :45:45.focus on the murder of a Paul Jones. The murderer was obsessed with the