:00:18. > :00:26.across Turkey. But what are they after? Anger and rocks. Tear gas and
:00:26. > :00:29.arrests. And yet it hardly seems to be organised. These are ordinary
:00:29. > :00:32.members of society, educated and mainly middle-class. The great
:00:32. > :00:40.mystery to the Turkish government is why they are here and in such
:00:40. > :00:44.massive numbers. Under him, better off pensioners would lose more
:00:44. > :00:47.money. Ed Balls says Labour can make a better job of running the British
:00:47. > :00:50.economy. I'll be talking to the Shadow Chancellor. And forget Samuel
:00:50. > :00:55.Pepys. Soon we'll all be using our glasses and our clothes to record
:00:55. > :01:05.every moment of our lives. What could possibly go wrong? Technology
:01:05. > :01:11.
:01:11. > :01:14.evangelists shall tell us the answer shortly. It has turned into the most
:01:14. > :01:21.violent and environmentally unfriendly eco-protest ever. But
:01:21. > :01:24.what began with resistance to plans to replace a part in Istanbul with a
:01:24. > :01:28.shopping mall, has now turned into protests across Turkey. They don't
:01:28. > :01:37.care for a government which has been seen elsewhere as a bridge between
:01:37. > :01:45.East and West, is lamb and Europe. Many of them think it's betraying
:01:45. > :01:52.modern Turkey's secular tradition. Paul Mason is in Taksim Square in
:01:52. > :01:57.Istanbul. The crowd you see behind me just a
:01:57. > :02:02.small of the 20,000 people who have been occupying the square below and
:02:02. > :02:07.the gardens next to it for the best part of a week now, since the police
:02:07. > :02:10.moved in to clear a small tent camp, which was there to try and
:02:10. > :02:17.defend the square against redevelopment. So the Prime Minister
:02:17. > :02:19.calls them terrorists, improvisers and extremists. I can tell you for a
:02:19. > :02:24.fact that that description doesn't accord with the fact they are mainly
:02:24. > :02:27.young, quite secular, quite urban and quite middle-class. In that,
:02:28. > :02:33.they are quite similar to the people who made the occupied protests and
:02:33. > :02:38.the people at the beginning who were in tarry a square. With one
:02:38. > :02:41.difference. What you see below me is a space which is quite extensive,
:02:41. > :02:46.that has been free of policing for three nights. The police had to
:02:46. > :02:51.retreat and the whole place has been more or less held together with
:02:51. > :02:57.Turkish folk music, and a lot of goodwill. They've been bombarded for
:02:57. > :03:02.four hours with tear gas, fairly indiscriminately. They do fear that
:03:02. > :03:10.the police will come in again tonight. I was up at 4am, to see
:03:10. > :03:20.what happens when the police tried that last night. This is how riots
:03:20. > :03:20.
:03:20. > :03:28.start. After four nights of clashes, police vacated the part of Istanbul
:03:28. > :03:38.around Taksim Square. The protest is found out, building barricades on
:03:38. > :03:42.
:03:42. > :03:47.all approaches. When the clashes came, they were brutal. CS gas,
:03:47. > :03:57.rubber bullets, water cannon. And the protesters made use of what they
:03:57. > :03:58.
:03:58. > :04:08.could. Then, perfectly ordinary people formed human chains to rip up
:04:08. > :04:12.
:04:12. > :04:17.the pavements and build. They fought sporadically late into the night.
:04:17. > :04:20.Even now, at 3am, the rioting is still going on, right here in
:04:20. > :04:25.central Istanbul. And the people around the not some extremist
:04:25. > :04:28.hard-core. These are ordinary members of society, educated, mainly
:04:28. > :04:35.middle-class. The great mystery for the Turkish government is why they
:04:35. > :04:39.are here and in such massive numbers. Meanwhile, there was
:04:39. > :04:45.violence in four big Turkish cities, in Ankara, the capital,
:04:45. > :04:49.reports of tens of people injured. This was the scene in is mere. In
:04:49. > :04:56.all cases it was young, urban, secular people fighting it out with
:04:56. > :05:02.the police. But their real beef is with the AK Party. Moderate Islamist
:05:02. > :05:09.who they say are pushing things too far. We are protecting the modern
:05:09. > :05:17.Turkish Republic. He is trying to make his own country, an Islamic
:05:17. > :05:22.country. He hates modern people. This is not about alcohol. We are
:05:22. > :05:28.not here... We're here for revolution. It's a mixed bunch.This
:05:28. > :05:33.is something that is good for us. This is going to help us have a
:05:33. > :05:37.dialogue with everyone around us. We need your help. Not to protect
:05:37. > :05:45.democracy, to protect our rights. This is about humanity. This is
:05:45. > :05:50.never going to end, not this soon. Everyone is here. We are all Muslim.
:05:50. > :05:55.The police now facing charges of overkill. In this footage, shot by a
:05:55. > :05:59.local journalist, a mosque turned into a makeshift hospital treats
:05:59. > :06:06.injuries consistent with CS gas rounds hitting people's bodies.
:06:06. > :06:11.Later, the police tried to break in here to make arrests. And at the
:06:11. > :06:18.main hospital, even the medics were having a tough time. They are having
:06:18. > :06:28.so many traumas because of the tier bombs they have been shooting. And
:06:28. > :06:33.they were shooting tear gas... close range? I have been shot by a
:06:33. > :06:37.tear gas bomb. By day there is calm. But at this university, where
:06:37. > :06:40.they are getting a liberal education, even a bar is banned from
:06:40. > :06:45.serving alcohol. Not by law but by the personal order of the Prime
:06:45. > :06:51.Minister. This politics professor told me the issue of preserving one
:06:51. > :06:56.part is just a final straw for the urban young. The secular part of the
:06:56. > :07:00.population is probably about 35 to 40% of the electorate. It includes
:07:00. > :07:04.the liberal minded, the Democrats, the urban comedy middle-class, the
:07:04. > :07:09.well-educated the religious minorities. They are all part of the
:07:09. > :07:13.secular minority. It is a minority but it's not a small minority, it is
:07:13. > :07:20.40% sometimes, depending on the issues it can be over 50%. They feel
:07:20. > :07:24.threatened by the policies. Today, the Turkish PM called the protest is
:07:24. > :07:31.extremist elements, arm in arm with terrorism. It might play well with
:07:31. > :07:37.his electoral base, but analysts believe he is in danger of
:07:37. > :07:41.alienating an entire generation, above all women. Women should give
:07:41. > :07:45.birth to three children at least, he says. We should have a population
:07:45. > :07:49.policy where each family has to have three children at least. He talks
:07:49. > :07:54.about abortion. He talks about Caesarean being may be legal,
:07:54. > :07:59.because it's not right. They'd spent the day singing and reciting
:07:59. > :08:05.poetry. But at nightfall, a huge, pervasive cloud of gas descended on
:08:05. > :08:09.the square. This is already bigger than any of the X occupied protests
:08:09. > :08:15.or anything seen in Greece at the height of the troubles there. What
:08:15. > :08:19.stops it being in Egypt type moment is this. It may be that the
:08:19. > :08:24.secularists, liberals and youth are ranged here in tens of thousands,
:08:24. > :08:28.but a good 50% or more of Turkish society is Islamist, does support
:08:28. > :08:36.Prime Minister Erdogan and does not support the people here or their
:08:36. > :08:40.lifestyles. But on these streets, where solidarity is doled out in
:08:40. > :08:50.squirts of anti-tear gas fluid, all they've got in the face of that is
:08:50. > :08:54.
:08:54. > :08:58.defiance. I'll be joined shortly by a protest from Istanbul and by an
:08:58. > :09:03.academic. First, let's go to Morocco, where the Turkish
:09:04. > :09:11.government minister is there on a visit. He is able to talk to us.
:09:11. > :09:16.Minister, when you see these scenes of protest is being tear-gassed,
:09:16. > :09:19.it's not doing your country much good, is it? I have to make a
:09:19. > :09:29.correction, I'm not the minister, and the vice-chair of the party for
:09:29. > :09:36.foreign affairs. Tell us what you think. Regarding what is going on in
:09:36. > :09:41.Turkey right now, it started with an innocent protest. Later on it has
:09:41. > :09:48.been used by some of the radicals. We never say that the whole people
:09:48. > :09:55.at Taksim Square or somewhere else in Turkey are the radicals, but
:09:55. > :09:59.there are marginals who misused this atmosphere and then vandalise the
:09:59. > :10:04.city. They have been breaking down the cars, civilian cars, private
:10:04. > :10:13.shops, cash machines, police cars and ambulances. They have been
:10:13. > :10:18.attacking even the people... The thing is, we can never actually,
:10:18. > :10:24.neither in Turkey nor in Germany nor in France, as it happened before, or
:10:24. > :10:31.in the UK, it happened recently, we can never support excessive power
:10:31. > :10:36.used by the police, tear gas or pepper spray, whatever you call it.
:10:36. > :10:41.An acceptable in any democratic society. And therefore at the
:10:41. > :10:47.beginning, the police actually used excessive force. Later, the Prime
:10:47. > :10:52.Minister called for an investigation. Now the police have
:10:52. > :10:58.withdrawn from Taksim Square. I've just received good news that the
:10:58. > :11:02.people coming to Taksim Square had a good dialogue with the police,
:11:02. > :11:12.agreed that there will be a peaceful demonstration and the police let
:11:12. > :11:15.
:11:15. > :11:20.them go. We need this calm demonstration in Turkey. To an
:11:20. > :11:30.outsider, a lot of this is very hard to understand. For example, what is
:11:30. > :11:30.
:11:30. > :11:39.this issue about alcohol? started... If you come back to
:11:39. > :11:42.alcohol, we're not banning alcohol. This is false information. The
:11:42. > :11:49.government or the Parliament just regulated the sales of alcohol, as
:11:49. > :11:58.it is in the UK. The pubs close at ten p.m. During weekdays and 11 p.m.
:11:58. > :12:02.During the weekends. No longer. It used to be like this when I was a
:12:02. > :12:11.student there, until recently. In the United States also there are
:12:11. > :12:15.many regulations. You cannot buy alcohol on Fridays, the whole day.
:12:15. > :12:20.Is this anything about the secularism? This is a kind of
:12:20. > :12:22.regulation in Turkey. It is not banning. It can be different. I can
:12:22. > :12:29.say something else, even though I'm representing the party.
:12:29. > :12:35.Nevertheless, if you bring in another line, like the government is
:12:35. > :12:38.banning the alcohol because of the last -- Islamist policies, this is
:12:38. > :12:48.not true. You know the Prime Minister very well start how worried
:12:48. > :12:48.
:12:48. > :12:54.is he? Worried about what?Worried about the situation in your country?
:12:54. > :12:55.The Prime Minister has the self-confidence, he is
:12:56. > :13:03.distinguishing the people who are demonstrating peacefully and the
:13:03. > :13:09.radicals who are vandalising the city. Breaking down of private shops
:13:09. > :13:14.and destroying the streets and buildings and everywhere. The Prime
:13:14. > :13:18.Minister is very well distinguishing between these two groups. I think it
:13:18. > :13:27.should also be distinguished by yourself as BBC and by the press. We
:13:27. > :13:30.have respect for the people who are demonstrating the wishes or desires
:13:30. > :13:39.at protesting against the government, what is going on in a
:13:39. > :13:45.peaceful manner. As I see on the main news channels, we are building
:13:45. > :13:55.a shopping mall at the square. This is also fake information that I have
:13:55. > :13:57.
:13:57. > :14:05.two correct. In this project there is no shopping mall, only the...
:14:05. > :14:12.Thank you for joining us. Now we are joined from the protest by one of
:14:12. > :14:22.the protesters. And we are joined also in the studio by our academic
:14:22. > :14:35.
:14:35. > :14:41.guest. Tell us what is it that you are protesting about? OK. So, as you
:14:41. > :14:48.all know, it all started with the police attack to the peaceful
:14:48. > :14:52.demonstrators, the protesters that were sleep sleeping at 5.00am and
:14:52. > :14:59.turned into a large-scale country-wide movement, a sort of
:14:59. > :15:03.social awakening. We are protesting against the authoritarian, the
:15:03. > :15:11.repressive regime of the government and it's an accumulation of
:15:11. > :15:16.everything. I'm sorry... Why didn't you just vote him out of office if
:15:16. > :15:20.you don't like him? I don't understand... Turkey is a
:15:20. > :15:28.functioning democracy, why don't you vote your government out of office
:15:28. > :15:32.if you don't like it? OK. So, voting is just one aspect of democracy. One
:15:33. > :15:36.other aspect - a very important aspect - is the peaceful
:15:36. > :15:43.demonstration and the peaceful protests. Now, we are using that
:15:44. > :15:50.right. We are right to hold these protests if the government, if the
:15:50. > :15:58.Prime Minister is not letting us in all the decision-making processes.
:15:58. > :16:01.So I have to disagree with the Minister, with what he said about
:16:01. > :16:08.the alcohol regulations. What we care is not about banning or not
:16:08. > :16:14.banning something. It is about the mentality lying behind it. So, in
:16:14. > :16:18.order to enact laws, in order to apply them, you have to consider all
:16:18. > :16:26.the segments of society. You have to consider the sensitivities. After
:16:26. > :16:30.this ban, you cannot go and say that, OK, so what the religion step
:16:30. > :16:34.lates cannot be -- stipulates cannot be wrong. This discourse is really
:16:34. > :16:39.dangerous. OK. Thank you very much. We are against this mentality.
:16:39. > :16:45.you. What do you make of what is happening in your country? Well, it
:16:45. > :16:49.is a complicated story to tell. Turkey is a complicated story. I
:16:49. > :16:52.know it would be nice if we could summarise everything in just a
:16:52. > :16:56.soundbite. I don't think that is possible. I have been looking
:16:56. > :17:02.forward to this conversation with you to try to interrogate, to try to
:17:02. > :17:05.understand what is happening. better gallop through it! What is
:17:05. > :17:13.happening - I agree, my interpretation agrees with the
:17:13. > :17:18.protester there. I think this is about people's desire to live their
:17:18. > :17:24.lives the way they want to in their own cities in public spaces and to
:17:24. > :17:30.make their own decisions about their lives. It is as simple as that. It
:17:30. > :17:36.is a desire for freedom. I know it sounds very abstract, but you would
:17:36. > :17:42.believe it if you were in Taksim Square right now. What is problem --
:17:42. > :17:49.what is the problem, it is a democracy? What we are dealing with
:17:49. > :17:59.is the problem of democracy altogether. We all know about the
:17:59. > :18:04.
:18:04. > :18:08.majority. We recognise the K Party - let's say they got 50% of the vote,
:18:08. > :18:18.52% of the vote what are the bounds of that authority? What can you
:18:18. > :18:23.intervene in? What kind of laws can you make with that kind of mandate?
:18:23. > :18:29.Before you ask me another question, I want to say also that the very
:18:29. > :18:36.meaning of democracy is at stake here. I think what we are seeing in
:18:36. > :18:42.Taksim Square, and across Turkey, is very much an experimentation with
:18:42. > :18:51.direct democracy. It is an effort to imagine other ways of living
:18:51. > :18:56.together. It is not simply about winning the majority in
:18:56. > :19:04.parliamentary elections. Thank you very much.
:19:04. > :19:07.In a moment, how wearable technology could change our lives.
:19:07. > :19:11.There are still two years to go, but the Labour Party told us how they
:19:11. > :19:15.will manage the economy if they get another chance at it. They told us
:19:15. > :19:22.it will be tough and what they will do about a few small things. The
:19:22. > :19:30.last time we saw them in power, they claimed to have abolished "boom and
:19:30. > :19:33.bust". If they get returned to office, they will be more rigorous,
:19:33. > :19:42.according to the Shadow Chancellor today. I will be talking to him in a
:19:42. > :19:46.moment. It's 60 years ago since this
:19:46. > :19:51.crowning glory and a Coronation generation nourished by a welfare
:19:51. > :19:55.state for all. As the diamond anniversary comes into view, the
:19:55. > :20:00.welfare state doesn't get as many commemorative tea towels as Her
:20:00. > :20:05.Majesty. Now the state's �700 billion annual budget is one, some
:20:05. > :20:11.politicians, feel they must tame. Labour's Shadow Chancellor could
:20:11. > :20:19.always be counted upon to be an exception, until today. We know
:20:19. > :20:27.these plans for current spending in 2015/16 are likely to face a
:20:27. > :20:32.significant burden on public services. The relentless focus of my
:20:32. > :20:36.colleagues must be on how to reprioritise money within and
:20:36. > :20:41.between budgets for current spending rather than coming to me with any
:20:41. > :20:48.additional proposals for new spending. This was quite some
:20:48. > :20:53.movement by the Shadow Chancellor, but he went further. Ed Balls
:20:53. > :21:03.itemised cuts, ending free school places, abolishing Police
:21:03. > :21:21.
:21:21. > :21:28.Commissioner Police Commissioners, and then on this sunny day in June a
:21:28. > :21:31.cut... The Labour Titan was within spitting distance of the Coronation.
:21:32. > :21:38.Then he trumpeted universalism in the early stages of the welfare
:21:38. > :21:43.state. Ed Balls has called him his hero. But today he was accused of
:21:43. > :21:46.breaking with the tradition. accept this is a very limited
:21:46. > :21:51.reduction in universalism for those at the very top in one area. The
:21:51. > :21:55.right-wing, the Tories and the Lib Dems, want to dismantle the whole of
:21:55. > :22:02.these benefits. I don't think Labour should be opening the door to them.
:22:02. > :22:06.One colleague of the Labour Leadership described this as a
:22:06. > :22:13.pivotal moment? It is important to remember that the Winter Fuel
:22:13. > :22:15.Allowance is a recent invpbion. It doesn't rank up there with child
:22:15. > :22:23.benefit as important universal benefits that you would wish to
:22:23. > :22:29.protect. We are talking about small sums here. It is symbolic of the
:22:29. > :22:32.shift Labour needs to make. It is not about axing. This morning, the
:22:32. > :22:39.Tories were rubbing their hands with glee. Senior Conservative and Lib
:22:39. > :22:42.Dem figures in the coalition have long suggested but always shied away
:22:42. > :22:47.from ending universalism in elderly benefits. Now that Labour, the
:22:47. > :22:57.so-called defenders, have gone in for the kill, many coalition MPs
:22:57. > :23:01.think these benefits are now fair game. Free pensioner bus passes were
:23:01. > :23:07.not on the agenda. What did right-wing spending experts think?
:23:07. > :23:16.It was really important. It will be remembered. The ko coalition has
:23:16. > :23:23.damaged that principle with child benefit, taking that away from
:23:23. > :23:29.richer parents. I think we are heading towards a more means-tested
:23:29. > :23:33.welfare state. What about ending all universal pensioner benefits? Well,
:23:33. > :23:38.research by the Resolution Foundation showed Winter Fuel
:23:38. > :23:43.Allowance and TV licences cost the Treasury �2.7 billion. Add in bus
:23:43. > :23:48.passes and prescriptions, you get �4 billion. If you means-tested Winter
:23:48. > :23:53.Fuel Payments and TV licences by only dispersing to pensioners
:23:53. > :23:58.eligible for pensioner credit, you save �1.4 billion. In the autumn,
:23:58. > :24:02.the Chancellor intends to set out another benefit cap. This time,
:24:02. > :24:08.including items like the housing benefit budget, some �20 billion. He
:24:08. > :24:14.thinks Labour won't be able to match him on that. Ed Miliband intends to
:24:14. > :24:18.prove him wrong. Today, Labour, keepers of the post-war welfare
:24:18. > :24:23.flame, moved. Toughening up on welfare spending, freeing them, they
:24:23. > :24:31.hope, to emphasise massive capital spending and for the time being, if
:24:31. > :24:36.she wants to, the Queen can keep her free TV licence.
:24:36. > :24:42.The man himself is here. In principle, do you believe in
:24:42. > :24:46.universal benefits? Of course. A universal state pension, free
:24:46. > :24:50.prescriptions for the elderly. I think the free bus pass is something
:24:50. > :24:53.which is about mobility in old age, but in every generation, you have to
:24:53. > :25:01.find the right balance between things you can do for all and things
:25:01. > :25:04.where you have to target. We are make making... Isn't this a belief
:25:04. > :25:11.in universal benefits, but not a belief in universal benefits?
:25:11. > :25:16.course. You always have a universal foundation and some areas where you
:25:17. > :25:23.do more for those who need it most. Those are the two principles. That
:25:23. > :25:28.makes it a just welfare state. idea was it to cut this winter fuel
:25:28. > :25:31.supplement to better-off people? proposal today? Yes.It was
:25:31. > :25:37.something that Ed Miliband and discussed... When did he change his
:25:37. > :25:41.mind? I don't think he has.Watch this. We have a cliep here of Ed
:25:41. > :25:44.Miliband expressing belief in universal benefits? My way in which
:25:44. > :25:48.those at the top should be paying responsibility is not by cutting the
:25:48. > :25:54.top rate of income tax. I think that universal benefits, which go across
:25:54. > :25:58.the population, are an important bedrock of our society. That is
:25:58. > :26:05.unambiguous? Which is what I have just said. There are certain
:26:05. > :26:09.benefits, like the pension, or the bus pass, or free prescriptions...
:26:09. > :26:13.He wasn't talked about all benefits being universal? Because in the
:26:13. > :26:17.welfare state... Is he likely to tell us about any others he has
:26:17. > :26:22.reservations about? There's always been some which are universal and
:26:22. > :26:27.some which are targeted. When we introduced the winter allowance, we
:26:27. > :26:36.introduced it universally. So...I think it is fair to say that we
:26:36. > :26:41.shouldn't pay it to the richest 5%, but I want a universal pension,
:26:41. > :26:50.universal free prescription and bus pass. Television licences?You have
:26:50. > :26:59.to be pragmatic about that one. Tell us - we need to save money,
:26:59. > :27:03.according to you. A bit like 1945. Let's not talk about that. I want to
:27:03. > :27:08.talk about you and what you plan to do to us if you get elected. For
:27:08. > :27:14.example... I'm not sure you will be one of the losers on the winter
:27:14. > :27:20.allowance! I don't suppose you know, do you? I have no idea.Right. Let's
:27:20. > :27:25.look at what you would do if you were elected. You would save by not
:27:25. > :27:35.giving old people, richer old people, this winter fuel supplement?
:27:35. > :27:41.
:27:41. > :27:44.Yes. How much of that will save? �100 million. It shows a Labour
:27:44. > :27:50.Government will be willing to make tough chances and to do so in a fair
:27:50. > :27:57.way. It is not going to reduce the deficit. I'm asking you to make a
:27:57. > :28:01.tough choice now. What proportion of the deficit is it? It is about a
:28:01. > :28:05.thousand. You think that is worthwhile? If it is �100 million,
:28:05. > :28:12.and it is easy to do, why wouldn't the Chancellor have done it? That is
:28:12. > :28:16.the best you can do on a flagship policy, is it? I think we went
:28:16. > :28:20.rather further than that. What I said was... How much further? Let's
:28:20. > :28:26.talk about something that you thought was wrong, the abolition of
:28:26. > :28:32.the 50p tax rate. Would you reinstate that? Yes.You would?
:28:32. > :28:37.Will you after the election? there is a manifesto now, yes. But
:28:38. > :28:41.in two years' time, we don't know what the circumstances will be. I
:28:41. > :28:45.won't make tax policy two years ahead. I would rather get tax rates
:28:45. > :28:50.down if I could, but I can't make that promise now on the top rate of
:28:50. > :28:58.tax. At a time when living standards are falling, for pensioners, too, is
:28:59. > :29:01.it a priority to cut taxes only for people over �150,000? So if you are
:29:01. > :29:09.Shadow Chancellor going into the next election, it is something you
:29:09. > :29:14.will wish to do? In three weeks, we would reverse it. I'm not going to
:29:14. > :29:16.make a promise two years ahead. I don't know where we will be.
:29:16. > :29:18.think George Osborne's strategy might be working? How do you mean?
:29:18. > :29:23.You think the economy will have improved enough for you not to need
:29:23. > :29:26.to make the change? It is an important principle that you don't
:29:26. > :29:29.make commitments two years ahead when you don't know the economic
:29:29. > :29:39.circumstances because I don't think it would be responsible to do it
:29:39. > :29:46.
:29:46. > :29:51.that way. You have principles applied? I can't plan now that this
:29:51. > :29:56.plan would be better in two years time. Have you got a credibility
:29:56. > :30:00.problem? You used the word iron discipline today. You also the man
:30:00. > :30:06.who wrote Gordon Brown's speech in which he talked about iron
:30:06. > :30:13.discipline. Yes.Were you being ironic? We introduced Bank of
:30:13. > :30:17.England independence. We didn't join the single currency, which was a
:30:17. > :30:23.very good call. We made some important and tough decisions. Did
:30:23. > :30:27.we get every decision right? Of course we didn't. When you talked
:30:27. > :30:32.about iron discipline being your guiding light, if you ever get back
:30:32. > :30:38.into government, then you were talking about the sort of iron
:30:38. > :30:41.discipline we saw under Gordon Brown, that's what you meant?
:30:41. > :30:46.a very different circumstance. wrote his speech and you wrote your
:30:46. > :30:50.speech today. And you meant the same thing in each case. We will have to
:30:50. > :30:55.have tougher and even more iron discipline because we are going to
:30:55. > :31:00.inherit an economy which is failing, a deficit which is high...
:31:00. > :31:03.More iron discipline? Absolutely. When we came into government we
:31:03. > :31:13.inherited a national debt of 42% GDP. We registered until the
:31:13. > :31:19.
:31:19. > :31:22.financial crisis to a lower level than America, France, Germany and
:31:22. > :31:24.Japan. It was the right thing to do. You think you handed on a golden
:31:24. > :31:31.inheritance to the coalition, do you? There was a global financial
:31:31. > :31:35.crisis and we were part of that. a man or woman approaches you,
:31:35. > :31:38.offering you lots of money for very little in return, any sensible
:31:38. > :31:43.person might smell a rat. But not some of the people who make our
:31:43. > :31:47.laws. The latest hidden camera footage of our lawmakers tarting
:31:47. > :31:50.themselves round to lobbyists have done the institution no favours.
:31:50. > :31:54.This afternoon, Downing Street promised a new statutory register of
:31:54. > :31:59.lobbyist and, for good measure, a mechanism to find out how money
:31:59. > :32:05.members trades unions really have. We're supposed to be impressed, are
:32:05. > :32:08.you, David? The government have come up with a set of measures that would
:32:08. > :32:13.have stopped the rush of damaging headlines that we've seen over the
:32:13. > :32:17.last few days. But not perhaps for the reasons that many people might
:32:17. > :32:21.have hoped. It would have stopped anyone pretending to be a lobbyist,
:32:21. > :32:24.because anyone who feared they might be part of some journalist sting
:32:24. > :32:27.operation would have simply been able to consult a register, and
:32:27. > :32:33.therefore they would have been able to see if they were being stung.
:32:33. > :32:37.What will this register do? It only deals with third-party lobbyists,
:32:37. > :32:47.these are people who work for hire. They are not the people, like our
:32:47. > :32:55.
:32:55. > :32:58.friend Fred Michelle who was working inside News International to lobby
:32:58. > :33:00.members of the government and others, to try and smooth the way
:33:00. > :33:02.for the takeover at BSkyB, he wouldn't be covered. And it wouldn't
:33:02. > :33:04.cover, interestingly, any lobbying of ministers. Why? We are told that
:33:04. > :33:07.already those meetings with ministers are documented, so there's
:33:07. > :33:09.no need to replicate that in another form. How did the Treaty News get
:33:09. > :33:11.dragged into this? It's not clear. This measure wasn't in the
:33:11. > :33:16.consultation. What the government say will happen alongside the
:33:16. > :33:19.statutory register, is that the unions will be required to end self
:33:19. > :33:23.certification of the union roles. Why does this matter? There have
:33:24. > :33:29.been questions about whether some union ballots were lawful. So they
:33:29. > :33:36.will be required to open their books and allow... What has that got to do
:33:36. > :33:41.with it? It's not evidently clear why they should be rolled into this
:33:41. > :33:46.set of legislation. However, if you were looking for a set of
:33:46. > :33:49.proposals, and Ed Balls is giving me a clue to the answer here, a set of
:33:49. > :33:53.proposals that were rolled into this to make it very difficult for Labour
:33:53. > :33:58.to support it, then this might be the measure you would pluck and put
:33:58. > :34:04.into this set of proposals. Indeed, Labour have described it as shabby
:34:04. > :34:08.and panicked, correct me if I'm wrong. Three years ago, David
:34:08. > :34:12.Cameron and Nick Clegg said, we will crack down and have a lobby
:34:12. > :34:17.register. They've done nothing. It's a scandal what's happened this
:34:17. > :34:20.weekend. We've not got the register. What are they going to do to try and
:34:20. > :34:24.divert attention? Let's shift the attention to Labour and the trade
:34:24. > :34:29.unions. It's pathetic. If they've got real proposals, we will look at
:34:29. > :34:33.them. If they want to reform -- reform party funding, absolutely, we
:34:33. > :34:40.will go for that. They want to divert attention that David Cameron
:34:40. > :34:44.utterly failed to sort this out. The world we live in! Would you like to
:34:44. > :34:48.know lots and lots more about your life, how much you've eaten, how
:34:48. > :34:52.many steps you've taken today or how you slept last night? Very shortly
:34:52. > :34:57.you will be able to do so, and to revisit all the things you did
:34:57. > :35:01.today, all of them, through wearable technology. Very soon, doubtless,
:35:01. > :35:05.there will be a piece of technology which tells you where you left your
:35:05. > :35:08.glasses. If you were already worried a while -- about what corporations
:35:09. > :35:12.know about your life without you necessarily knowing that you know,
:35:12. > :35:18.it's about to get a great deal worse. Things will not only be
:35:18. > :35:28.created but be seen to be created. Rory Cellan-Jones is the BBC's
:35:28. > :35:38.
:35:38. > :35:44.Thousands of images of people and places, miles driven, walk, cycle,
:35:44. > :35:51.all disappearing as the memories fade. But what if you could
:35:51. > :35:55.capture, store and then share your day? Well, now you can. All kinds of
:35:55. > :36:00.wearable devices are emerging with the power to document our entire
:36:00. > :36:04.lives or turn us into cyborgs, depending on your point of view.
:36:04. > :36:09.Wearable technology is the hot trend of the moment and, with the arrival
:36:09. > :36:13.of Google Glass, it appears to have hit a tipping point. I'm wearing
:36:13. > :36:17.four other devices which show something of its capabilities. This
:36:17. > :36:20.is an activity monitor, which sets the daily target. I'm not doing too
:36:20. > :36:26.well. This does something similar, but also measures how many steps I
:36:26. > :36:36.go up and down each day. This, too, is an activity monitor, but it also
:36:36. > :36:39.
:36:39. > :36:41.looks at my sleep patterns. This is a camera which takes thousands upon
:36:41. > :36:44.thousands of photographs of everything I do, wherever I go. An
:36:44. > :36:47.awful lot of data about me and my daily activities. Paul is a web
:36:47. > :36:50.designer in Dorset and is one of the early adopters. He's a guinea pig in
:36:50. > :36:54.a research project at Goldsmiths University, looking at how people
:36:54. > :36:57.may use wearable technology. He is also part of what's called the
:36:57. > :37:02.quantified self movement, gathering lots of data from his wristband that
:37:02. > :37:07.allows him to record and analyse his life. Often you go through life in a
:37:07. > :37:17.bit of a stupor, one thing to the next. For me, this kind of
:37:17. > :37:37.
:37:37. > :37:40.technology makes you more aware. It's more aware of what my mood is,
:37:40. > :37:42.more aware of how much I'm moving, more aware of whether I'm sleeping
:37:42. > :37:45.or not. Paul has suffered from depression in the past and believes
:37:45. > :37:48.that collecting this data about himself is helping him feel better.
:37:48. > :37:50.In the case of depression, just being able to know that, yes, I am
:37:50. > :37:53.getting out and doing the exercise I'm supposed to be doing, yes, I
:37:53. > :37:55.sleep and I got hard data to prove it, encourage as you and keeps you
:37:55. > :37:58.going. Paul is only collecting a fraction of the data about himself
:37:58. > :38:00.that will soon be available as these technologies advance. So what could
:38:00. > :38:02.a fully tooled up quantified cellphone look like? Smart textiles
:38:02. > :38:04.will capture biometrics like heart rate and blood pressure. Headbands
:38:04. > :38:06.will keep concentration levels and stress levels monitored. All of this
:38:07. > :38:11.will be synced with the web. The head of computing at Goldsmiths
:38:11. > :38:16.University has been looking into the future of wearable technology.
:38:16. > :38:18.will blink to take a photograph of anything we want, video recordings
:38:18. > :38:24.will be similar way. We will have this archival system which will be
:38:24. > :38:28.real-time, are virtually infinite capacity. If you yourself want to
:38:28. > :38:31.join other people that are sharing in your activities, you will
:38:31. > :38:36.immediately be able to identify where that is located and join in.
:38:36. > :38:46.It's the concept of a smart city and thus augmenting it. It's not a
:38:46. > :38:48.
:38:48. > :38:51.cyborg, it's a human cloud. It's not just individuals who have seen the
:38:51. > :38:57.potential. Some companies believe wearable technology has the power to
:38:57. > :39:01.make employees better. One such firm is a software business which is
:39:01. > :39:09.issuing its staff with wearable tech. It tracks their activity,
:39:09. > :39:11.mood, food and sleep patterns on a voluntary basis. Lawrie, who runs
:39:11. > :39:15.this American firms European operation, says wearable tech has
:39:16. > :39:24.been taken up enthusiastically by her team, with over half now
:39:24. > :39:27.participating. I can take a look and see when he slept. We've had about
:39:27. > :39:34.100 employees that have lost a stone or more in the last several months.
:39:34. > :39:40.Last month alone we collectively walked about 17,000 kilometres.
:39:40. > :39:43.These are all things that make us feel better together. It makes us
:39:43. > :39:49.better employees and people. One of the interesting things for us in the
:39:49. > :39:53.US, we've been able to use the fact that we've got this programme to
:39:53. > :39:58.negotiate a $20,000 decrease in our insurance bill in the States.
:39:58. > :40:04.Wearable tech is potentially big business. Google Glass has sparked
:40:04. > :40:06.huge interest long before it's available to consumers. Other
:40:06. > :40:13.products have investors and enthusiasts queueing up to get
:40:13. > :40:19.involved. On a Shoreditch rooftop, I met one of the investors hoping to
:40:19. > :40:24.serve the wearable ways. She has put money into a wearable camera, and
:40:24. > :40:28.believes the UK is well placed to prosper in this field. The target
:40:28. > :40:35.market is even greater than that of the general internet, or that of
:40:35. > :40:38.PCs, laptops and phones. It has a pedigree of being very strong in
:40:38. > :40:42.hardware in semiconductors, in devices, in design and technology
:40:42. > :40:47.and now software as well. It's the marriage of all of those assets that
:40:47. > :40:51.will make this sector, this next phase of computing which is now
:40:51. > :40:57.wearable and accessible for everyone, more important and more
:40:57. > :41:01.interesting for the UK. While some embrace wearable technologies as a
:41:01. > :41:04.means to empower the individual, others see them as tools for
:41:04. > :41:09.corporate surveillance. Google Glass has already sent privacy campaigners
:41:09. > :41:19.around the world to the barricades. One Australian senator said it would
:41:19. > :41:19.
:41:19. > :41:23.end privacy as we know it. nightmare scenario is the data is in
:41:23. > :41:28.the cloud, out of people's control. Even if you want to delete it, the
:41:28. > :41:31.company say they own it, you don't. Then technology like facial
:41:31. > :41:35.recognition can be used to mine that data, so you are walking down the
:41:35. > :41:39.street, someone walks past you, they take a picture of you with their
:41:39. > :41:44.device, get home and say, show me everywhere else that the picture has
:41:44. > :41:47.been uploaded this person. Very quickly, someone else can build up
:41:47. > :41:53.an incredibly detailed picture of your life without you ever knowing
:41:53. > :41:58.about it. Let's see how long I slept four. Five hours and 13 minutes.
:41:58. > :42:02.Quite a lot of that was light sleep. What all of these devices have in
:42:02. > :42:05.common is they are collecting a vast amount of data, whether it's my
:42:06. > :42:09.movements, where I've been, how much energy I've expended all the
:42:09. > :42:13.thousands of pictures being collected by this. A lot of that
:42:13. > :42:16.data is going to end up in the cloud. Then the question is - who is
:42:16. > :42:23.going to have access to all a bit and what exactly might they do with
:42:23. > :42:26.it? The answer will often be giant multinational companies. But
:42:27. > :42:32.fortunately, they have very detailed privacy policies and will seek our
:42:32. > :42:38.consent before they share our data. So that's all fine, isn't it?
:42:38. > :42:42.Essentially, these companies are saying, trust us with your data in a
:42:42. > :42:49.non-encrypted way, having signed a policy that allows us to share it
:42:49. > :42:52.with selected third parties. Without any technical means like encryption
:42:52. > :42:59.or legal restrictions, it's very hard to trust companies with this
:42:59. > :43:05.kind of intimidator. As we document and share more of what we do, what
:43:05. > :43:07.we do, who we meet and what we buy, we'll create a rich pool of data for
:43:07. > :43:13.ourselves, but also for our employers and the company is trying
:43:13. > :43:23.to sell to us. The debate about the etiquette and ethics of wearable
:43:23. > :43:23.
:43:23. > :43:25.technology has only just begun. With us now is Robert Scoble who has been
:43:25. > :43:31.trialling Google Glass. He says he will never live another day without
:43:31. > :43:38.them. And Jaron Lanier, from Microsoft, who invented an early
:43:38. > :43:43.forerunner. It was a beautiful spring day today. It was awesome.In
:43:43. > :43:50.what way was possibly enhanced by wearing that thing on your head?
:43:50. > :43:53.Told me how to walk to Big Ben when I asked it. I don't live in London,
:43:53. > :43:58.so I needed directions. I could have pulled out my smartphone, but then
:43:58. > :44:04.I'm looking down as I'm getting directed through the streets. Now
:44:04. > :44:08.I'm looking at you, the world around me. What are you seeing apart from
:44:08. > :44:12.me or this studio? Nothing right now. It only comes on when I compel
:44:12. > :44:19.it to come on by touching it or talking to it. Then it comes on and
:44:19. > :44:23.I say, OK, take a picture, for instance. All I could say I need
:44:23. > :44:30.directions to Big Ben. It would take me there. It would show me where I'm
:44:30. > :44:37.looking. It is a lot different than holding a smartphone. Would you ever
:44:37. > :44:41.have one of these? The devices are great. Aside from any practical
:44:41. > :44:45.benefits, some of which which I think very real, they are also
:44:45. > :44:49.tremendous fun. If it is done artfully, what you experience can be
:44:49. > :44:53.quite beautiful. The problem is how they are used. The problem is not
:44:53. > :44:56.any device, it's become Peter the device connects to. If that is
:44:56. > :45:00.creepy, then all of a sudden you have the creepy device. The problem
:45:01. > :45:03.is not the technology, though, that's a great thing. I'm really
:45:03. > :45:13.concerned about the business models of the particular firms that are
:45:13. > :45:18.bringing these out. Let me get to that in a second or two. The cast of
:45:18. > :45:25.mind that you have got, Robert, you even posted a photograph of yourself
:45:25. > :45:32.in the shower wearing this thing? did. This is a device for total
:45:32. > :45:36.narcissist, isn't it? No.Are you really that interested in your life?
:45:36. > :45:46.Well, I'm partly a journalist so I'm pushing the technology to see how
:45:46. > :45:47.
:45:47. > :45:52.far it goes and what the dangers are. Tell us what they are, then?
:45:52. > :45:57.The problem is that some of the companies that are promoting this -
:45:57. > :46:00.I have friends at Google, I love Google - but the way Google is doing
:46:00. > :46:07.business right now compels them to grab more and more data about you
:46:07. > :46:12.and to use it to place advertisement advertisements at the pay of third
:46:12. > :46:22.parties. We can get by with that for now. It is no way to run a
:46:22. > :46:26.
:46:26. > :46:31.civilisation. We have to reform the way we run these technologies. All
:46:31. > :46:38.of the incentives are pulling them... One of the first things you
:46:38. > :46:42.want to do with this and say show me the Starbucks... You haven't...
:46:42. > :46:47.is advertising, Robert! It is, but it is different from the advertising
:46:47. > :46:51.you and I grew up with. LAUGHTER You have tRefRed the initiative from
:46:51. > :47:01.yourself to a great corporation which may have a change of policy?
:47:01. > :47:03.
:47:03. > :47:08.Might have, yes. -- transferred the initiative from yourself to a great
:47:08. > :47:13.corporation which may have a change of policy? There is a benefit to
:47:13. > :47:17.this technology. Can I say one other thing about the creepiness
:47:17. > :47:21.potential? I love this stuff. I probably experience this before
:47:21. > :47:26.anyone else on the planet because I used to build these. The thing is, I
:47:26. > :47:28.don't like what I heard about the company that is giving it to its
:47:28. > :47:33.employees because it promotes this conformity that everybody should
:47:33. > :47:43.have the same body which, having seen you in the shower, will be your
:47:43. > :47:46.
:47:46. > :47:52.body, Robert! LAUGHTER I don't think so. I'm concerned that this is going
:47:52. > :47:55.terribly awry because of imagining this computer database as being this
:47:55. > :48:02.centre driver that tells us how to live, that knows where the right
:48:02. > :48:06.coffee is. Computers are stupid. If we follow on that course, we will
:48:07. > :48:13.behave less intelligently. You know, I'm wearing a monitor that monitors
:48:13. > :48:17.my health, my steps that I'm taking... You are obsessed?I am. Do
:48:17. > :48:25.I exercise that much more? Not really. Humans are good at ignoring
:48:25. > :48:30.these things. They are interesting. I find that beneficial. Thank you
:48:30. > :48:40.both very much. That is about it for now. We will see you tomorrow. Good
:48:40. > :48:46.
:48:46. > :48:52.for most of us today. It will start off chilly first thing tomorrow
:48:52. > :48:56.morning. It will warm up quickly in the sunshine. Some patches of cloud,
:48:56. > :49:01.particularly bubbling up in the north, and that may lead to one or
:49:01. > :49:06.two sharp showers. Some low cloud, mistiness around some of these
:49:06. > :49:14.coastal areas of Scotland. One or two sharp showers over the hills and
:49:14. > :49:22.mountains. 20 degree also be a typical figure for England and
:49:22. > :49:31.Wales. Around the coast, it will be a touch cooler here. In the
:49:31. > :49:37.sunshine, 20, 21 is quite likely, possibly hitting 22 further west. UV
:49:37. > :49:46.levels will be high in most places. A good-looking day. Maybe a bit more
:49:46. > :49:52.cloud around as we head into Wednesday. Further south,
:49:52. > :49:55.temperatures hitting 20, 21 Celsius. Wednesday could start off grey and